Insanity and hypocrisy Down Under

Al Gore’s bombast and hypocrisy, an energy debacle “no one saw coming,” lessons for USA

Paul Driessen

The Wall Street Journal called it the energy shortage “no one saw coming.” Actually, a lot of people did see it coming. But intent on pursuing their “dangerous manmade climate change” and “renewable energy will save the planet” agendas, the political classes ignored them. So the stage was set.

As an Australia-wide heat wave sent temperatures soaring above 105 degrees F (40.6 C) in early 2017, air conditioning demand skyrocketed. But Adelaide, South Australia is heavily dependent on wind turbines for electricity generation – and there was no wind. Regulators told the local natural gas-fired power plant to ramp up its output, but it couldn’t get enough gas to do so. To avoid a massive, widespread blackout, regulators shut off power to 90,000 homes, leaving angry families sweltering in the dark.

According to the Journal, Aussie politicians and the wind industry, the primary problem was businesses that exported 62% of Australia’s natural gas production in 2016, leaving insufficient supplies to run gas backup power plants that are supposed to step in when wind and solar power fail. Policy makers “didn’t ensure enough gas would remain at home” and couldn’t foresee temperatures soaring with no wind.

Gas export licenses were issued without regard to the consequences for the domestic market,” said one pol. We should have had “a national interest test” in place to ensure domestic gas needs, said another.

During this and even bigger Aussie blackouts, valuable fish, meat and produce rotted when freezers and refrigerators shut down. Business operations were interrupted or shut down. Rising electricity prices and unreliable power impacted smelters, factories and other businesses, causing many to lay off workers.

The blackouts and energy debacle “offer lessons for America, as it prepares to vastly increase natural gas shipments abroad,” the Journal advises. It certainly does, though not the lessons suggested by the article or people quoted in it, amid the “excessive exports” narrative. Here are some of the correct lessons.

First and foremost, have debates and red team-blue team exercises. Listen to experts who aren’t locked into climate chaos and renewable energy themes. Foster public discussions, instead of silencing them. Understand the entire situation and all the likely consequences of each alternative, before legislating.

Recognize and study reality. Dead calms occur frequently when temperatures are at their highest, or their lowest – when families, businesses, hospitals and schools need electricity the most. Clouds can blanket regions for days or weeks on end. Reliance on wind and solar is risky, and reliable backup is essential.

The justification for eliminating coal and mandating 50% wind and solar is heavily rooted in fears of catastrophic manmade climate change. But the alleged crisis has no basis in observed evidence. The 18-year pause continues apace, with the El Niño temperature spike of 2015-16 gone … and average global temperatures back down to where they were in March 2015. Hurricanes, tornadoes, floods and droughts are in line with or below multi-century historic trends and fluctuations and are hardly unprecedented. Greenland just recorded its most frigid July temperature reading in history: -33 C (-27 F).

If alarmists have evidence to the contrary, they must present it for review – including original temperature data, not the revised, homogenized data that American, Australian and other scientists have been presenting to support cataclysm claims and justify demands that we eliminate fossil fuels and switch to renewable energy, regardless of the unprecedented energy and economic risks that would pose.

Second, if Australia (or the USA) is to “keep what’s theirs,” instead of exporting it, keeping it in the ground is the wrong way to do it. Exports may be playing a role. But Victoria and New South Wales have banned fracking, more are likely to follow, coal burning and nuclear are also banned – and you cannot export, use or generate electricity with energy that you are prohibited from taking out of the ground. You cannot benefit from resources you hoard and lock up.

Ban fracking, and you ensure more natural gas shortages, soaring electricity prices, ever-greater reliance on expensive, unreliable wind and solar power, more blackouts, more layoffs, more economic downturns and dislocations, more shipping of good jobs overseas. Your may get many new low-pay jobs hauling, installing, maintaining and removing wind turbines and solar panels made in China. But you won’t have smelters, foundries, turbine and panel factories, or the high-pay jobs that go with them.

Adding to the problem, Institute of Public Affairs research director Brett Hogan notes, many coal and gas operators are investing less in maintenance because there is little point in spending on plants that activists and politicians are trying to shut down. “That explains why their reliability is starting to wobble at times, which the renewables crowd falsely claims is proof that fossil fuels are also unstable.”

Meanwhile renewable energy mandates “are pushing out the cheapest electricity provider in Australia (coal), gas prices are being set at the international level, and activists are demanding fracking bans that limit gas supplies and make gas still more expensive,” he adds. The results should be easy to foresee.

Third, applying a “national interest test” should not pertain only to export licenses. It must also apply to fracking and nuclear bans, coal and gas plant closures, and effects of skyrocketing electricity prices on smelters, factories, hospitals, schools, local governments and families. Government-imposed Australian austerity and sacrifices will have trivial, un-measurable, irrelevant impacts on atmospheric CO2 levels in the face of growing coal use and emissions from China, India, Indonesia, virtually all other Asia-Pacific nations, and the rest of the world. How does Australia’s overall national interest stack up against that?

Once again, open, robust debate, honest, transparent information – and stiff penalties for prevarication, fabrication and falsification – are absolutely essential.

Under sustainability and climate precepts, we are supposed to safeguard the assumed needs of future generations, even if it means ignoring or compromising the undeniable needs of current generations. We are supposed to protect people from theoretical, exaggerated risks of dangerous manmade climate change, regardless of how slashing fossil fuel use impacts millions of businesses and families. That is untenable.

In the midst of all this, the Journal reports, Tesla CEO Elon Musk has offered to build a giant battery system in South Australia – as though batteries can back up wind power for hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses … especially under true sustainability, economic and national interest tests. Mr. Musk, however, needs new customers to offset plunging sales in Hong Kong, Denmark and elsewhere.

Meanwhile, the ECOCITY World Summit is being held in Melbourne. City planners, architects, elected officials, professors, teachers and eager recipients of more taxpayer-funded renewable energy grants are soaking up fake facts and clever strategies for imposing sustainable development goals on the governed classes. As my CFACT colleagues observing the summit put it, they want to use financial instruments and courts to transform communities into “sustainable and resilient cities,” with them in charge.

Al Gore is jetting around the land Down Under, promoting his new climate chaos film and claiming manmade pollution is equivalent to 400,000 Hiroshima atomic bombs going off daily! Making Australian heat waves five times more likely because of manmade global warming! Teachers and journalists get free passes to Gore’s events, to get their propaganda talking points, but no one is allowed to record any part of his talks, to avoid embarrassing the false prophet. When Climate Depot’s Marc Morano offered him a free DVD of the Climate Hustle documentary film, a scowling Al Gore headed to his SUV and private jet.

Mr. Gore and other alarmists are generally panic-stricken about debating climate realists, especially in debates proposed by USEPA Administrator Scott Pruitt. Participating in them would expose their claims to unaccustomed scrutiny, but refusing to do so would leave the impression that they have something to hide: such as their raw data, deceptive methodologies and absence of evidence to support their models.

They should be worried. If the crisis is exaggerated, fabricated or exists only in computer models, we will refuse to keep spending countless trillions on junk research and job-killing renewable energy schemes.

Paul Driessen is senior policy analyst for the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow ( and author of Eco-Imperialism: Green power – Black death.

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July 16, 2017 8:09 am

I view that it is a “religiously believe”
and the “leaders”/”bishops”/etc, just like in the little ice age, have made huge amounts of $$.
So, how many Global Warmings can dance on the head of a pin?

Clay Sanborn
Reply to  Susan Corwin
July 16, 2017 9:00 am

97 out of 100.

Reply to  Clay Sanborn
July 16, 2017 9:02 am


Reply to  Clay Sanborn
July 16, 2017 12:18 pm

The 18-year pause continues apace, with the El Niño temperature spike of 2015-16 gone …

Oh, you mean it continues if we ignore the last two or three hot years?! If it was continuing it would 20 years now not 18.
What is the point of making obviously invalid claims like that while accusing others of insanity and hypocrisy?

Henning Nielsen
Reply to  Clay Sanborn
July 16, 2017 11:44 pm

Presumeably the last three “un-pinned” Warmngs are in denial, and went down under, to a hot place…

Reply to  Clay Sanborn
July 17, 2017 6:57 am

LIke always, the trolls try to pretend that the recent heat spike was due to CO2, not the El Nino.
It really is pathetic how they try to bend reality to fit their religious convictions.

Reply to  Susan Corwin
July 16, 2017 9:03 am

If it’s a computer generated Pixar “Toy Story”-like cartoon: There’s no practical limit. You just use more and more powerful super computers to simulate larger and larger pins and smaller and smaller itty bitty Global Warming simulacra.
Just how many would you like to have. Figures don’t lie but liars figure. — Mark Twain.
Don’t you reckon that Sam Clemens would be getting a real hoot out of the ongoing CO2 induced global warming flapdoodle (if he was still around.) I think it is likely that Will Roger would have been able to see the ‘charm’ in the warm, also.

George Daddis
Reply to  ThomasJK
July 16, 2017 9:38 am

Twain quoted Charles Dudley warner in a lecture: “Everybody talks about the weather but nobody does anything about it.”

Crispin in Waterloo
Reply to  ThomasJK
July 16, 2017 1:28 pm

Do not forget the advantages of getting the wrong answer a lot faster. Powerful computers can provide evidence the programmers don’t know what they are doing without have to wait for weeks. Wrong answers can be provided in a matter of a few days. This offers the potential to save a lot of power.

Reply to  ThomasJK
July 16, 2017 4:44 pm

“If you put tomfoolery into a computer, nothing comes out but tomfoolery. But this tomfoolery, having passed through a very expensive machine, is somehow ennobled and no-one dares criticize it.” – Pierre Gallois

Reply to  Susan Corwin
July 16, 2017 5:03 pm

Do they have a special school where”Leftards” get taught how to be stupid,or are they just born that way?

Steve from Rockwood
Reply to  Clive Hoskin
July 16, 2017 6:57 pm

It’s a combo.

Reply to  Clive Hoskin
July 16, 2017 11:53 pm

All schools and Universities for more than generation.

Reply to  Susan Corwin
July 16, 2017 6:35 pm

How many energy Ministers, State and Federal have any idea how energy is made and used?
None. No engineers in the cabinet, anywhere. The Australian power crisis took ten years to make. We are now at the point when the MSM is bleating for energy policies. Last time I looked, we have a policy of mandatory purchase of renewable energy at very expensive prices by coal fired power stations.
The gas shortage is entirely self made by Government energy ministers and industry replacing coal fired base load with gas turbine peaking plants. The ministers did it to get votes. The businesses did it because the gas turbine capex was lower and gas was cheap. Certain industry CEO’s were just plain GREEDY. They saw just how stupid the politicians were and used it to line their pockets and screw their fellows. Many are still doing it.
A Federation of States, Australia built an eastern seaboard GRID controlled and regulated by two Federal Government departments but “managed” by a political committee made up of all the states and the Federal government.
The GRID was designed by Siemens out of Munich (by an Australia) running on US software and hardware. The chief installer, a gas engineer, recently died.
Needless to say Siemens does not sit on the political committee.
The final spike being punched into this “energy vampire” is being done by the newly hired chairperson, a US regulator who specialized in connecting renewable energy sources to the New Jersey grid. The perfect hire for a Grid going nowhere at an ever increasing cost per MWhr connecting windmills that provide no reliable energy.
Expect more visits from cash desperadoes like Elon Musk and Al Gore. They enable Australian politicians to “look” good. Seeming is more important than doing.
Needless to say there has been great activity on the purchase of diesel generators (South Australia and Tasmania) and planning of “private” grids for big power users.
What happens this summer is going to be most interesting.
Obviously, the world’s largest battery will save our economy. However, its hard to get a second opinion from Mars.

Reply to  Susan Corwin
July 16, 2017 7:06 pm

More important, how many global warmers will try to dance on your head, if you needle them…

July 16, 2017 8:11 am

From the article: “Policy makers “didn’t ensure enough gas would remain at home” and couldn’t foresee temperatures soaring with no wind.”
Really? No wind, and high temperatures go together. More study of high pressure system attributes needs to be done by Australian politicians.
On second thought, I guess they have already learned this lesson. So what will they do about it? Probably build more windmills.

Reply to  TA
July 16, 2017 9:55 am

In the US we have a large amount of gas in “working storage” facilities in different parts of the country. This allows for demand exceeding wellhead supply to be met during high-use times, and surplus gas produced beyond demand to be stored. Gas in storage drives price. Does Australia not have any system to store gas for peak demand times?

Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 12:07 pm

no, but for all the coal they take out of the ground they have a place- China.
Oz is the world’s top coal exporter.
Nobody sees fit to make anything of that, for some reason…

Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 12:27 pm

Why doesn’t every house in Australia have enough PV on the roof to run its AC needs.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 12:43 pm

It’s harder to store large amounts of reserve gas than of reserve coal.

richard verney
Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 12:49 pm

Why doesn’t every house in Australia have enough PV on the roof to run its AC needs.

Probably for two reasons.
First, it costs a fortune to install PV, and it is not cost effective without subsidies.
Second, if Australia is anything like Southern Spain, aircon is most needed in the evening when the sun is not shinning.. The sun beats down all day on the brick house with the walls gradually building up heat during the course of the day. The heat from the walls is then released in the evening when the house inside becomes intolerably warm.
Further during the day, one is often out. It isn’t until the evening when one sits down to relax that one realises how hot it is.

Gerry Cooper
Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 2:03 pm

‘Why doesn’t every house in Australia have enough PV on the roof to run its AC needs.’
3.2kw system, grid connect around $7,200. How large a roof would you need to run air conditioning with solar panels? No subsidies on installation and only a 5cent/kWh sell price for solar.

Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 2:54 pm

“Why doesn’t every house in Australia have enough PV on the roof to run its AC needs.”
Because there isn’t enough government money for that many subsidies.
plus, coal is far better for the environment, releasing much needed carbon back into the shorter term carbon cycle.

Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 4:05 pm

“Why doesn’t every house in Australia have enough PV on the roof to run its AC needs.”
Because you can’t put that much PV onto the roof.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 4:55 pm

“Greg July 16, 2017 at 12:27 pm
Why doesn’t every house in Australia have enough PV on the roof to run its AC needs.”
Because more people rent, and more people live in apartments. We have a housing crisis in Australia where the average price for a house is well above AU$1mil.

Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 5:00 pm

“The Latrobe Valley in the state of Victoria, Australia, contains estimated reserves of some 65 billion tonnes of brown coal. The deposit is equivalent to 25 percent of known world reserves.The coal seams are up to 100 metres thick, with multiple coal seams often giving virtually continuous brown coal thickness of up to 230 metres. ” Link
So, Daniel Andrews (Premier of Victoria) apparently tripled the royalty due on this coal and the French owners of Hazelwood Power Station decided to shut it down in March 2017. At that time, Hazelwood was 53 years old, was licensed to produce power until 2025 and represented about 20% of Victoria’s production. During that month of March, Hazelwood produced roughly the same amount of power as every wind farm in Australia combined. That’s from a 53 year old dinosaur . .
Victoria has two inter-connectors with South Australia where wind is king. Elon Musk has kindly obliged to fill the gap with a battery. Honestly, you couldn’t make this stuff up.
Also, most coal plants are essentially built alongside their coal mine. The vast majority of gas plants rely on gas coming out of their supply pipe from somewhere remote. Therefor, coal plants tend to be much more resilient if a fuel shortage were to about.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 5:01 pm

“Roger Knights July 16, 2017 at 12:43 pm
It’s harder to store large amounts of reserve gas than of reserve coal.”
True. Turnbull recently stated that coal has a future in Australia’s energy mix. Turnbull is a keen supporter of “the price on carbon” so much so he reactivated it July 1st 2016. He is also a liberal party MP and it was the Liberal party under Howard who started this boondoggle off by setting Renewable Energy Targets (RET’s) in the 1990’s effectively creating energy *MARKETS* rather than energy suppliers. This laid the foundation of reduced supply, increased demand and astronomical prices. SA spiked to over AU$13,k during the recent debacle.
Australia, the stupid country!

John in Oz
Reply to  Iurockhead
July 16, 2017 9:31 pm

Greg July 16, 2017 at 12:27 pm
Why doesn’t every house in Australia have enough PV on the roof to run its AC needs.

I iive in South Australia with 5KW solar panels.
It is currently 1:57PM, temperature 11C, rain is falling, 100% cloud, 193W being generated from solar.
Does this answer your question and why there needs to be reliable, base-load non-renewable power available?

John from Europe
Reply to  Iurockhead
July 17, 2017 2:02 am

Greg has left the building.

July 16, 2017 8:14 am

I like the 400,000 Hiroshima bombs daily. That means one bomb a day within 20.2 kilometres (13 miles) from wherever you are. You must be blind not to notice it. Actually, you must be dead already, because on i 365 bombs falling in a year in that area must have killed you already.

Kalifornia Kook
Reply to  Curious George
July 16, 2017 12:28 pm

Not true! Back when this claim was first made, an analysis was done to determine how that compared to the energy from the sun. It was minuscule. The sun bombards the hell out of us – or we’d be dead.
Oh – but the scary thing about comparing it to Hiroshima bombs is the nuclear radiation. Now that could be bad. But that isn’t what is happening. It is just clever on their part to conflate Hiroshima energy output, while ignoring the radiation effects.

July 16, 2017 8:17 am

Al Gore is in Australia ?
Welcome Home.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  nottoobrite
July 16, 2017 9:45 am

God Bless Al Gore and keep him far away.

Reply to  nottoobrite
July 16, 2017 10:33 am

Who allowed al-Gore to come to Oz in the southern winter??? Given we have no gas for heating, it’s extremely dangerous to risk record low temps in mid winter! Being him here in summer – we could use some unseasonable cold in feb!

Phil Rae
July 16, 2017 8:22 am

A great article, Paul. Succinct & straight to the point! I just wish articles like this would make it into the MSM so folks who are not warmist zealots and who don’t actively follow sites like WUWT would have a chance to further their education and understand the scope & scale of the deception being foisted on them. Of course, I realise that the MSM is the main conduit for CAGW and environmental propaganda so there’s no chance of that unfortunately! Keep up the good work, Paul!

Jeff Mitchell
Reply to  Phil Rae
July 16, 2017 1:31 pm

I have this little fantasy where each time a predictable power outage occurs in South Australia (or anywhere else) due to over reliance on wind or solar, that there be commercials aired which paints the politicians who made the policies as fools and get laughed at along with the voters who voted for them. These people deserve no sympathy for what they created.
The reason I consider it a fantasy is that I have no clue how advertising on Australian networks works, coupled with the idea that they may censor the content. I don’t know if offering them prices for airtime double the normal would be sufficient.

Reply to  Jeff Mitchell
July 16, 2017 2:21 pm

Hi Jeff – here’s my take on it – if you can put up with Al baby’s crap that is.

Reply to  Jeff Mitchell
July 16, 2017 8:52 pm

I started to listen but I cannot stand Gore’s crap for more than a few seconds. Even worse who is stupid enough to go to one of his diatribes?

Reply to  Jeff Mitchell
July 17, 2017 5:15 am

Jeff … how can there be any commercials aired if there is no power?

kokoda - the most deplorable
July 16, 2017 8:26 am

“The justification for eliminating coal and mandating 50% wind and solar is heavily rooted in fears of catastrophic manmade climate change.”
That is BS. There is no fear. the mandates for wind and solar are simply due to an agenda to cripple developed economies.

Reply to  kokoda - the most deplorable
July 16, 2017 8:50 am

As government is incapable of doing anything, let alone within budget, the renewable bandwagon is great for them to be seen as “doing something” with noble conviction. They can ignore all the real problems, demand more cash for nothing and then point to their accomplishments. Do they want to destroy economies, no, they are incapable of running one in the first place.

Reply to  Duncan
July 16, 2017 9:22 am

You say

As government is incapable of doing anything, let alone within budget,

That is not the most daft explanation of the US military I have heard, but it comes close.

Reply to  Duncan
July 16, 2017 12:37 pm

Richard…sure “incapable” might be a little strong but unproficient comes to mind.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Duncan
July 16, 2017 12:55 pm

There is a reason that acronyms like FUBAR were in common use by GIs during WWII. General Patton credited the M1 rifle for the success of US soldiers during the war, despite what Congress and the military brass did. That is, it was US technology and manufacturing capabilities that gave us an edge. After all, politicians are the dregs of society that can’t even teach teachers, yet they often have Messiah complexes. Look at Al Gore!
When Gore was still VP, he was pushing for the Triana satellite. The rationalization was that it could be used for real-time environmental instruction (indoctrination?) of students. I did some quick ‘back-of-envelope’ calculations and concluded that with a 640×480 display resolution (typical for computers of the time), during a 55-minute class time, a storm system might move about one pixel across the screen. That would have been about as exciting as watching grass grow. Yet, Gore was convinced (without justification) that this was going to do for environmental education what pre-sliced bread did for sandwich making.

Jeff Mitchell
Reply to  Duncan
July 16, 2017 1:41 pm

Clyde, your comment reminds me of a variation of a famous quote: “Those who can do, those who can’t, teach, and those who can’t teach, teach teachers”. I actually disagree with the first part as many teachers are excellent, and their teaching ability has nothing to do with what they can’t do.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Duncan
July 16, 2017 5:41 pm

The quote you provided was what I was alluding to. Most people are familiar with it.

Reply to  Duncan
July 17, 2017 7:01 am

Interesting. Governments can’t run a military, but they can run a health care system.

Reply to  kokoda - the most deplorable
July 17, 2017 5:28 am

Indeed, the whole AGW thing is simply another layer of the globalization initiative. It is useful to the aim of wealth redistribution as well as the creation of a new crony capitalist industry for which the politicians are both paymasters and gatekeepers.
Junk science being used to prop up junk politics which hand big cash prizes out to client enterprises. I am encouraged to see more and more people waking up to this deception and I hope it will soon be gone, forced off the stage by our measured reality.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  Keitho
July 17, 2017 10:18 am

Wealth redistribution usually refers to the purpose of moving wealth from the rich to the poor. The wealth redistribution in renewables is exactly the opposite, from the poor (and less poor) TO THE RICH!

July 16, 2017 8:26 am

The “national interest test” should be applied to all Australian politicians, too.
A prerequisite would be a “Too stupid to recongnize the National Interest” test. The South Australian politicians who created this fiasco would not pass this test.

July 16, 2017 8:43 am

Anyone who wants to learn about windpower can see the results of Texas, which has a of of wind power. It also gets hot in Texas. It gets real hot when a high pressure area moves in and becomes stationary. That is also when there is little wind. High electrical demand accompanied by little wind is a fact of life. As I recall, the numbers during that peak demand load was that wind capacity was less than 5% of typical wind output. Essentially, nothing.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  arthur4563
July 16, 2017 8:55 am

“When a high pressure area moves in and becomes stationary,” it means clear skies. Excellent time to generate power with PV panels. Good way to balance the wind turbines.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:13 am

So, for every peak megawatt of wind, we need a couple of peak megawatts of solar, and maybe ten megawatt hours of batteries to carry the load over night, and a megawatt of fossil fuel backup … or we could save a lot of money and just have the fossil fuelled generators.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:18 am

Solar thermal can store energy using molten salt, no batteries required:

John Harmsworth
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:22 am

PV panels are a very expensive way to make very little power.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:25 am

No need for batteries when you do solar with thermal storage:

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:27 am

Luis Anastasia:
I write in a genuine attempt to help you.
Your posts in this thread reveal your great ignorance of what you speak. You would avoid again making yourself seem stupid if you were to do a course in electrical engineering before again posting about power generation.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:33 am

John Harmsworth: “PV panels are a very expensive”

The trend is remarkable: comment image

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:39 am

Courtney, don’t worry, there are plenty of engineers working on wind and solar projects. They’re doing a great job. Besides, you know the old adage about “putting one’s eggs all in one basket?” Diverse energy sources are more reliable that dependence on a single one (i.e. fossil fuels.)

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:46 am

All night long.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:49 am

Luis, of SolarReserve I only know that their molten salt tank developed a minor leak in December 2016 and the plant was still off line in May 2017. They don’t respond to my requests for 2017 production data. Could you please help me with this task?

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:52 am

Luis Anastasia July 16, 2017 at 9:18 am
Solar thermal can store energy using molten salt, …

Tantalisingly close
On the other hand
Don’t ever ignore Murphy’s Law. Remember Oil From Turkey Guts. Just because you can do something that doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to actually do it.

Robert W Turner
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 10:18 am

And if you swallow a cat to catch the mouse, you’d better follow that up with a dog.
So after a $2 Billion grant of taxpayer money, three years of exemptions on energy production and carbon emissions, Ivanpah MIGHT actually be producing more energy than it’s consuming. Who knows how many years it will be to actually offset the energy and resources it took to build it, but it will be hundreds of thousands of birds later, and will never get there if it keeps catching itself on fire.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 10:33 am

George: “They don’t respond to my requests for 2017 production data. ”
Today is Sunday, I suggest you contact Mary Grikas at Solar Reserve on Monday. You can get her email address from their web site.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 10:42 am

Robert Turner: “Ivanpah MIGHT actually be producing more energy than it’s consuming.”
Produced: 1,775,246 Mwh
Gas consumed: 3,310,819 MMbut

Note: 1 Mwh = 3.41 million btu, so yes, it’s a net producer of energy.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 10:47 am

CommieBob, please don’t confuse Ivanpah with Crescent Dunes. Ivanpah doesn’t have storage.

PS (Google is your friend) here’s Ivanpah production numbers:

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 11:32 am

“I suggest you contact Mary Grikas at Solar Reserve on Monday.” I am not promoting their technology; you are. It is your task, not mine. Until you do it, I’ll assume they are still off-line.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 11:44 am

You can assume anything you want. They restarted May 5th:

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 11:58 am

Your reference does not support your conclusion.

John MacDonald
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 12:06 pm

I drove by Tonopah last Tuesday. The plant of concentrating mirrors and a tower, had a curious effect around it. At the level of top of tower, from 20 miles I could see two apparent Sun dogs either side. As I got closer the effect followed me as the road changed orientation. Up close it looked like emissions from the mirrors with Sun refraction through the vague smoke. I couldn’t figure out the optics possibility, so I concluded I was watching Sun dog refraction in the smoke of fried birds. Note: not sarc.
Any thoughts?

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 12:09 pm

My reference says on May 5th, 2017, “in restart now so operations have initiated,”

So again, I will reiterate: You can assume anything you want.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 12:16 pm

They have been in restart since December. Did you really read that article? Probably not; that’s not surprising for a guy who does not know how to write an email on Sunday.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 12:20 pm

George says:
1) “the plant was still off line in May 2017”
2) “They have been in restart since December.”

Please make up your mind.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 12:22 pm

PS George, read John MacDonald’s post.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 12:28 pm

I am merely quoting company officials. Production data would be even better.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 12:40 pm

oh, good idea….at least until it gets dark and then you have zero for 10 hrs……oh yeah, then you have the batteries…. well muskies batts will last for at least 6 min….good, only have to take care of that pesky 9hrs 54 min. of zero. Of course this huge dropout won’t affect the grid at all.
I like the way you think.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 12:45 pm
Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 1:03 pm

As an analogy, the “one basket” warning has some merit. However, if one were sufficiently foolish to put many of their eggs in baskets that were poorly constructed or poorly guarded, then they might well regret not having used one good, secure basket. It seems to be a common problem of hardline environmentalists to see the whole picture while focusing on their pet projects.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 3:25 pm

Luis Anastasia July 16, 2017 at 10:47 am
… Ivanpah doesn’t have storage.

Even if it had storage it would still waste energy keeping itself warm at night.

Gas is burned at night to keep the system primed and to heat water used in the tower boilers. This allows electricity production to start up more quickly when the sun comes up each morning, plant operators said. Gas also is burned during periods of intermittent cloud cover. link

You can get the required energy from storage or you can get it from gas … take your choice. Saying that Ivanpah doesn’t have storage is a red herring.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 3:41 pm

Bob says, ” keeping itself warm at night.”
Ivanpah doesn’t burn gas at night to keep warm. As per your post ” to start up more quickly when the sun comes up each morning.” The working fluid is water, not molten salt.
Please learn about what you are talking about before you comment.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 5:12 pm

Luis Anastasia July 16, 2017 at 3:41 pm
… The working fluid is water, not molten salt.

Exactly so. It doesn’t matter. Check out Figure 1 in this link. It shows several possible configurations with thermal energy storage. In all cases there has to be a liquid or gas working fluid fed to the solar collector (receiver). In that regard, all configurations have exactly the same issue as Ivanpah. The receiver has to be in an efficient condition when the sun first hits it in the morning. You can use some of your stored energy or you can supply external energy, it’s basic engineering.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 5:30 pm

First of all your “link” doesn’t work.
Second, you say ” It doesn’t matter.” The working fluid does matter, because as you know, the higher the operating temperature, the more thermally efficient your heat engine is. Crescent Dunes circulates the salt through the tower, Ivanpah uses water. The salt has a higher boiling point, so can be heated much hotter than the steam without high strength pressure tubing.

So after the start-up bugs are worked out of Crescent Dunes, it will be able to provide power 24×7, and show that thermal storage can scale. Solar is fully capable of providing base load power.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 6:48 pm

Unless you live in Manitoba. Here, high pressure in winter can set in for 2-4 weeks, with temps at -40C/F. The wind doesn’t blow, and the 8 hours of clear skies has a low sun angle that provides very little power. Thankfully, we have reliable and abundant hydro power and natural gas providing our winter heating requirements.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 7:51 pm
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 8:49 pm

Actually Crescent Dunes is in a less forgiving situation than Ivanpah. The salt took months to melt and has to stay melted for the life of the installation. link
If we go back to just before my first comment, you said:

… Good way to balance the wind turbines. …

Everything else you have said leads me to think we don’t need the wind turbines.
Anyway, my point was that, given the low price of fossil fuels, it’s just simpler to forget wind and solar. This link gives a price of $60 per megawatt hour for American coal fired generation. It’s not enthusiastic about the prospects for concentrated solar power except for a project in Dubai which aims to produce power at 95 USD per MwH.

The Commission Staff, with input from a group of electric providers, developed a combined cycle natural gas plant levelized cost of $66.23 per MWh in 2013 dollars for a plant entering service in 2016. link

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 17, 2017 7:04 am

Molten salts end up using more fossil fuel energy to keep them hot overnight than they save in solar energy.
It doesn’t matter how many engineers are working on a problem, if it isn’t solvable to begin with.

Ray in SC
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 17, 2017 8:58 am

Curious George,
Yes, this came up in a previous post. The plant ramped up production over a six month period, reaching a peak in December 2016. At that time, a “minor leak” was discovered in the molten salt system and the plant was shutdown. The last reports from March 2017 indicate the plant is still down. My guess is that the “minor leak” uncovered a fundemental weakness in the design or the materials used in construction. Either way, the plant appears to be out of service at this time.
I would post a link but I do not remember the name of the plant.

July 16, 2017 8:48 am

Where is the ‘recall’ button for these politicians. I guess a lot of people in S. Australia would press it.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  jsuther2013
July 16, 2017 10:16 am

You lost yours when you allowed them to take away your guns.

July 16, 2017 8:49 am

The longer I live on this planet, the more I come to believe that insanity is the natural state of humanity. interspersed with barely enough sporadic moments of enlightenment to keep us from disappearing.

Stewart Pid
Reply to  jclarke341
July 16, 2017 9:14 am

“Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on, or by imbeciles who really mean it.” Mark Twain

Reply to  Stewart Pid
July 18, 2017 3:18 pm

Fake quote. Sorry, Stewart, but Mark Twain never wrote that. Nor ever uttered “You’re putting me on!” I’ll wager.

Jeff Mitchell
Reply to  jclarke341
July 16, 2017 1:50 pm

Heinlein had this to say:
“Throughout history, poverty is the normal condition of man. Advances which permit this norm to be exceeded — here and there, now and then — are the work of an extremely small minority, frequently despised, often condemned, and almost always opposed by all right-thinking people. Whenever this tiny minority is kept from creating, or (as sometimes happens) is driven out of a society, the people then slip back into abject poverty.
This is known as “bad luck.”

Reply to  Jeff Mitchell
July 16, 2017 3:47 pm

Awesome quote from Heinlein. Thanks for sharing Jeff.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Jeff Mitchell
July 16, 2017 6:28 pm

Jeff, I always wondered how a magnificent civilization starting some 5000yrs ago in Egypt could have come to what it is today. I think you have answered my question. Ditto Greece, Babylon…

Another Ian
Reply to  jclarke341
July 16, 2017 1:55 pm

“PHRONEMOPHOBIA – fear of thinking”
Must be a world wide epidemic as yet unreported!
(Courtesy of Courier Mail (Oz) quiz)

Roger Knights
Reply to  jclarke341
July 16, 2017 4:25 pm

The most common of all follies is to believe passionately in the palpably not true. It is the chief occupation of mankind.
—H.L. Mencken

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  jclarke341
July 16, 2017 5:44 pm

Yes, humans are not inherently rational creatures. They are only capable of rational behavior for short periods of time in order to achieve their irrational goals.

July 16, 2017 8:51 am

It would help immensely if the MSM were dissuaded from publishing sensationalist headlines designed to sell papers, not inform their readers.

Reply to  HotScot
July 16, 2017 10:28 am

You’re assuming the MSM is more interested in selling papers than promoting an agenda.

Reply to  markl
July 16, 2017 3:40 pm

Page 3 of The Sun newspaper was probably the most accessed page in newspaper history, and the paper was the best selling newspaper in the UK for decades.
Page 3 was a daily parade of women, naked from the waist up. Very nice, but a bit like the global warming scam, not very informative.
Tell me now, that selling papers isn’t a prerogative of a newspaper baron.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  HotScot
July 16, 2017 1:08 pm

Selling newspapers and making money for the owners is what newspapers do! Any news that might actually be communicated is purely coincidental.

Reply to  Clyde Spencer
July 16, 2017 3:25 pm

It recalls an early scene in “Newsies” where the veteran newsie is shouting out headlines that aren’t actually in the newspaper during his sales pitch, to the astonishment of the newbie.

Reply to  Clyde Spencer
July 16, 2017 3:42 pm

Guess what our grandparents used to wipe their arses with. Today’s news.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
July 17, 2017 6:18 am

“HotScot July 16, 2017 at 3:42 pm
Today’s news.”
Today’s news is “digital”…WRT to use of newspaper.

July 16, 2017 9:01 am

couldn’t foresee temperatures soaring with no wind
That is hilarious. All the ineffective (and eventually harmful) political posturing, posing and virtual signalling comes with a cost. But likely none of the guilty will face consequences after all this climate nonsense stops.

July 16, 2017 9:08 am

America learned from the OPEC oil embargoes. It has the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. Not having such a reserve is just bad management.

Russ Wood
Reply to  commieBob
July 19, 2017 9:29 am

Of course, there’s always South Africa, where a corrupt batch of “civil serpents” sold our entire oil reserves at BELOW the going oil price, on the excuse that “The reserves needed turning over”.

July 16, 2017 9:08 am

Australia is becoming acrash test dummy for expensive intermittent renewables, along with the UK. Likely won’t end well for them. But a needed object lesson for the rest of the world.

Reply to  ristvan
July 16, 2017 9:12 am

It is the proverbial canary in the coal mine…and it is lying on the floor of its cage…twitching.

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  jclarke341
July 16, 2017 1:10 pm

Perhaps the canary is only sleeping on its back and enjoying a good dream. 🙂

Reply to  jclarke341
July 16, 2017 3:38 pm

Is it pining for the fjords?

Gary Pearse
Reply to  ristvan
July 16, 2017 7:04 pm

Rud, Trouble is the Ozzies themselves aren’t understanding the lesson. Unless Republicans in the US can make use of the majorities they have in both houses and get their agenda concreted in, this will be their last majorities.
Fortunately, the Dems don’t have a plan B at the moment. They are outraged and still fighting the last election and not reforming themselves or seeing they had gone off the rails. If some one wakes them up to the opportunities and the next generation of millennials comes along with no knowledge of what their own America is about or what a real education is, there will be a one party US for generations and the lesson will never be learned. I won’t be living out my remaining years in Canada if Trump fails. Ironically Russia may be the only place where “western civilization” will be preserved. Europe is barely on life support and their only hope is the success of the much hated and ridiculed Trump! How crazy is that?
Trump has to succeed or its all over for Europe and the western hemisphere. There is no where else that a turnover of this empty headed, designer-brained mental illness can be achieved. Someone close to Trump should tell him he can save the world if he could just keep quiet and push ahead. That might motivate him. Leave all the crazy stuff to his lawyers and get his agenda going.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
July 17, 2017 8:50 am

“Ironically Russia may be the only place where “western civilization” will be preserved.”
A virtual dictatorship with a failing economy and no freedom of speech or of the press is your idea of western civilization.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
July 17, 2017 12:40 pm

“Trump has to succeed or its all over for Europe and the western hemisphere. ”
I think you are correct. Which means our fate is resting in the hands of a few Republicans in Name Only (RINO’s).
If the RINO’s screw things up this session, we have a chance to change the numbers in Congress in 2018, but if that doesn’t change things enough to get Trump’s agenda through Congress, then I think we are screwed.
The Republicans better get this right. The fate of western civilization is in their hands. They can make it, or break it. Republican voters should be applying pressure to their representatives to get the agenda done.

July 16, 2017 9:09 am

You need a system of wind, solar and storage medium to overcome shortage. Otherwise you run short of electricity. Or you need another source like oil, gas, coal etc.

Reply to  marty
July 16, 2017 9:19 pm

Or you need “A RELIABLE” source like oil, gas, coal etc.
There fixed it

Reply to  Catcracking
July 17, 2017 5:50 am

They are drilling for oil from great depth in the sea. Coal is only competitive with large subsidies (Germany). Nuclear energy is dangerous and expensive. In the long run, only renewable energy remains. A way to store electricity is the conversion into gas, it is expensive but available at any time if you master the technique.

Reply to  Catcracking
July 17, 2017 7:11 am

So what if they are drilling from great depths, it’s still cheaper than renewables.
Coal is by far the cheapest form of power, it doesn’t need subsidies. The German subsidies are to counteract the fact that the power companies are required to run the coal plants as backup for the renewables, which makes it impossible for them to earn money.
Nuclear is neither dangerous, nor expensive.
Renewables are, and will always be toys for people who can’t handle reality.

July 16, 2017 9:21 am

they want to use financial instruments and courts to transform communities into “sustainable and resilient cities,”
Somehow the terms “financial instruments” and “courts”, along with mandated sustainability and bans on fossil fuel production conjures up “law suit” in my mind.
With all this punitive action on the part of the left and it’s associated “green blob”, why aren’t climate realists making an effort to hold the alarmists financially responsible for their wrong predictions, falsified data and systemic power failures such as the one mentioned in southern Australia?
It seems past time to take the gloves off with these charlatans. Why isn’t Al Gore in jail for making all the false claims he’s made? Where are the “social justice warriors” when we need them? How many more will be impoverished or outright killed by these people before they’re stopped?

July 16, 2017 9:25 am

“The Wall Street Journal called it the energy shortage “no one saw coming.” Actually, a lot of people did see it coming.”
Yup – we saw it coming, and published the following in 2002 – 15 years ago.
Regards, Allan
Sallie Baliunas, Tim Patterson and I debated the Pembina Institute in 2002 in the PEGG. Our debate is now available at:
Our eight-point Rebuttal includes predictions that have all materialized in those countries in Western Europe that have adopted the full measure of global warming mania. My country, Canada, was foolish enough to sign the Kyoto Protocol, but then wise enough to ignore it.
[2002 article in “quotation marks”, followed by current commentary.]
On Green Energy:
8. “The ultimate agenda of pro-Kyoto advocates is to eliminate fossil fuels, but this would result in a catastrophic shortfall in global energy supply – the wasteful, inefficient energy solutions proposed by Kyoto advocates simply cannot replace fossil fuels.”
Governments that adopted “green energy” schemes such as wind and solar power are finding these schemes are not green and produce little useful energy. Their energy costs are soaring and these governments are often in retreat, dropping their green energy subsidies as fast as they politically can.

Reply to  Allan M.R. MacRae
July 16, 2017 11:05 am

Canada, was foolish
The supreme court of Canada has limited pain and suffering awards to 400k. That didn’t stop our nit-wit in chief from giving 8 million to reward a child soldier for letting the Americans lock him up for bombing Americans. We can expect more of this wisdom as carbon taxes and green ideas spread across Canada. Oh, but he has nice hair.

Reply to  ferdberple
July 16, 2017 11:27 am

ferd – you are way off-topic – however I will respond.
Justin is a man- child who has never held a real job – part time drama teacher and snow-board instructor, and reportedly not good at either. The problem is that the electorate is comprised of >30% imbeciles who vote based on nice hair and nice-sounding bs.
Re foreign interference in elections, read this:
National Post: Millions in foreign funds spent in 2015 federal election to defeat Harper government, report alleges.
Forget about the phony issues alleged in the USA – this is real criminal conduct.

Reply to  ferdberple
July 17, 2017 7:12 am

We are reaching a point where a majority of the voters have been trained to vote for whomever promises them the most free stuff.

Reply to  Allan M.R. MacRae
July 16, 2017 11:05 am

Canada, was foolish
The supreme court of Canada has limited pain and suffering awards to 400k. That didn’t stop our nit-wit in chief from giving 8 million to reward a child soldier for letting the Americans lock him up for bombing Americans. We can expect more of this wisdom as carbon taxes and green ideas spread across Canada. Oh, but he has nice hair.

Reply to  ferdberple
July 16, 2017 3:47 pm

Is there an echo in here?
Evidently you’re not a duck.

Mike Nelson
July 16, 2017 9:28 am

The natural gas shortage issue would be easily solved with a supply reserve. In business this is called inventory, and while one tried to reduce it to minimize costs, and when you serve a cyclic market this is a challenge, but that is where go ernment actually provide some useful help in the form of something like our strategic petroleum reserves.
Interestingly I just read this article about a formal debunking of adjusted surface temp data. If accurate the end is near and the sun will come up tomorrow:
As mentioned in this article this is a precursor to overturning the EPA endangerment finding on CO2. And if that happens the tide will have fully turned.

Reply to  Mike Nelson
July 16, 2017 1:03 pm

Thanks for that link, Mike. I liked this part:
“The conclusive findings of this research are that the three GAST data sets are not a valid representation of reality. In fact, the magnitude of their historical data adjustments, that removed their cyclical temperature patterns, are totally inconsistent with published and credible U.S. and other temperature data. Thus, it is impossible to conclude from the three published GAST data sets that recent years have been the warmest ever –despite current claims of record setting warming.”
end excerpt
Yes, and that “warmest ever” narrative is the only argument they have, and the bogus Hockey Stick chart is the only “evidence” they have for the argument.
I’m visualizing a combat ship getting hit amidships with a huge explosion which causes it to rear up out of the water, and then break in half and rapidly sink under the waves.
I guess in order to show some humanity, I will visualize all the crew making it into lifeboats and surviving the destruction of the Battleship Mann. 🙂

Reply to  TA
July 16, 2017 3:50 pm

Pretty much what happened to the HMS Hood when it engaged the Bismarck. As a “battlecruiser” intended to have the guns of a battleship AND the speed of a cruiser, the only way to achieve that design goal was to significantly reduce the Hood’s hull armor. The Bismarck’s opening salvo all but ripped it in half, and it sank so rapidly that only a handful of survivors escaped. It was the Bismarck’s first and only kill; after that the other British vessels stayed well out of range and let their divebomber squadrons harass it to death.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Mike Nelson
July 17, 2017 7:27 am

Mike, you aren’t an industry guy. The regulations against prod of NG in Oz would not permit such a “reserve” and no private company will go to the expense of producing for it unless Gove wants to pay 10x the price for gas. Even that level may not be very profitable. I’ll let you research why.

Jane Rush
July 16, 2017 9:42 am

Can someone explain in simple terms – for the non-experts in this thread – why molten salt is not viable for energy storage. I had never heard of this until Luis brought it up.

Reply to  Jane Rush
July 16, 2017 9:54 am

“not viable” is a little too strong. Call it unproven. I would not bet on it.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Jane Rush
July 16, 2017 9:59 am

Jane, this plant has been in operation since 2011:

Here one that’s much bigger:

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 10:02 am

Crescent Dunes went off line in December 2016 – a “minor molten salt leak”. It was still off line in May 2017. The company is extremely tight-lipped about this successful project.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Jane Rush
July 16, 2017 10:01 am

Jane and George, here’s a list of solar thermal plants. You can scan down the right hand column to see which of them have “storage”

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 10:03 am

Could you please supply 2017 production data?

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 10:13 am

Curious George, Google is your friend.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 10:27 am

So you don’t know how to use Google to get actual production data. Welcome to the club.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 12:21 pm

Luis, Google could have been your friend when it came to Crescent Dunes. You could’ve found this, which showed ZERO production from Dec 2016 through April 2017 (latest date available).
You may have even found this
The CEO claims a “low-tech” issue has had them shut-down from Dec to what became at least April (not sure it is back online yet at all…can’t find an article that says it is) and that the facility will need regular “high-tech” maintenance over the course of it’s lifetime, so this sort of thing should be expected.
The CEO wants people to focus on the fact that it is high-tech, that is has drawn lots of attention, that it pays lots in taxes, that it had lots of construction jobs, and that it employs 40 people. To date, it has been an utter failure.

Jeff Mitchell
Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 2:20 pm

I looked at some google entries, and found mostly spin from Solar Reserve. The Wikipedia page mentions nothing about its problems. The other articles mentioned that they expected it to be back on line in January 2017, and still wasn’t up as of March 2017. This makes sense since it takes two months to melt the salt. They then had to let it cool down and drain the tanks to fix it, and that would mean another two months to heat it back up. So I think that Solar Reserve is clearly understating the problems.
The Wikipedia article has some consistency problems that perhaps I don’t understand correctly. It says it can provide power for 10 hours during evening or darkness and doesn’t need gas backup. However there are periods when there is cloud cover for several days, so I don’t see how they wouldn’t need backup. Wikipedia isn’t always accurate or complete and doesn’t always avoid bias, so I don’t trust it as much as I’d like.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:37 pm

Sounds like a lot of fossil fuel is needed to melt the salt? or is the solar energy used?
Also as on who is familiar with metallurgy for high temperature piping, I suspect an expensive high nickle alloy is required with corrosion resistance not normally available at the very high temperatures.
What was the cause for the leak in a new plant, seems unusual?

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 16, 2017 9:48 pm

I guess, one of the questions is, are they paying off the $737 million dollar government backed loan or has the taxpayer been cheated again? Also are they providing electricity at competitive prices?

Keith J
Reply to  Jane Rush
July 16, 2017 10:04 am

Low energy density makes it expensive. Like making ice in winter to provide air conditioning during summer. While it works on paper, costs are high.

Reply to  Jane Rush
July 16, 2017 11:07 am

The cost for renewables is way more than my current 6 cents/kWhr.
Because they are intermittent not only do you need generation, you need storage, and the suggestion that you add solar to wind seems to completely devoid on the capital required, and the lost value as it takes nearly 3 times the capital of a nat gas plant.
And global warming is not from co2, surface temps just follow the water vapor given off from the oceans, as they go through their cycles. The same as El Ninos drive global temps for a period, and then temps just drop, the decadal ocean cycles just last longer.

michael hart
Reply to  Jane Rush
July 16, 2017 3:02 pm

Jane, cost. Pure and simple. Cost.
Lots of things work, both in theory, and in practice. The thermal salt storage principal is very simple, but you get very little bang-for-your-buck trying to store energy this way. No one will do it without subsidies, otherwise they already would be because there is no technical advance required. Just lots of expensive engineering requiring lots of expensive maintenance.
Wind and solar got lots of subsidies to build generation capacity, ignoring the basic problem of erratic supply. Some of them went back to the subsidy well to build an un-economic storage solution to the un-economic generation capacity that had also been built with subsidies. If money is assumed to be free and limitless, almost every “green” solution can be made to “work”.

July 16, 2017 9:43 am

400K Hiroshima bombs? Four million kilotons? That’s kind of excessive, isn’t it? Oh, right – it is The Gore! Silly of me to forget that.
Look, all I want is an A/C that works IF/WHEN I need it. I haven’t needed mine in three years now, and am beginning to think that here in the upper Midwest, I may not need anything but a few ceiling fans to stir the indoor air for the foreseeable future. Furnace works fine, thanks. My gas bill (natural gas/propane) has dropped considerably since I installed a new and more efficient blower motor, enough to make it worth the cost of asking the furnace guy to vacuum out the vents.
What I noticed this summer is that the cold water coming out of the sink and bathroom faucets now gets quite cold if I let it run for a minute or two. This means that the temperature where those inflow pipes are buried has not warmed up to the surface level temperature that it usually reaches by now. This should be a real concern, even if it does save me some ice for cold drinks. This is July. If it were April, I would not notice this at all.
It’s these little things that are symptoms of longer-term changes. This is year three that I can say this is happening.
If Australians are silly enough to leave natural resources in the ground that can keep them warm in winter and cool in summer, provide good jobs, and make their continent a better place, fine. Future generations may thank them for being so frugal.
Just one question. Okay several: When the Great Lakes freeze over as they did in 2014, if they don’t thaw by July, are we still on Algore’s global warming planet? What does it take to get these people to understand that they have NO control over anything that this planet does???

Reply to  Sara
July 16, 2017 3:57 pm

They already know that they have no control over the planet, but that is not what they seek. They are after control of the people on the planet. The ‘threat to the planet’ is just their latest hobgoblin to scare people into compliance.

July 16, 2017 9:49 am

Went to see the new Spiderman movie. I’ve been looking forward to this for a long time. Almost walked out of the theater when they ran a trailer for Al Gore’s latest propaganda piece.
I took a few deep breaths and told myself that it wasn’t the theater’s fault, and that his film is more likely to do more harm than good to his cause as people look around and realize none of his earlier warnings came to be.

Reply to  peter
July 16, 2017 9:58 am

People like disaster movies and it seems millennials are flat out fascinated with dystopian futures. I’m a long time fan of science fiction and what’s happened to that genre over the past 30 years is really appalling. Almost no one writes about positive futures anymore, it’s all zombies, plagues, alien invasions and yes, even climate disaster.

Reply to  Bartleby
July 16, 2017 3:55 pm

I like your post. My observation may be daft, but Star Trek was a study of optimism. Everything else since has been a study of pessimism.
Miserable B’Stards.

Reply to  Bartleby
July 16, 2017 4:09 pm

… it seems millennials are flat out fascinated with dystopian futures …

Here’s the best news I’ve heard all day. The generation following the millennials is much less likely to fall for the claptrap of the Democrat Elite. link In fact there are signs that they are standing up to the politically correct bullying of their older siblings. link

July 16, 2017 9:52 am

The clean, green ecological blight that is low density energy converters including windmills and photovoltaic panels have circumstantial value. The problem is political and popular myths spread by environmentalists and other industry lobbyists that defeat rational scrutiny of each technology to judge their value on merit. The energy supply solution should be a basket of production and conversion technologies, isolated from and dependent on environmental conditions, that are selected to purpose, including the organic black blob, artificial green blight, phobia-inducing nuclear technology, etc.

Martin Mason
July 16, 2017 10:01 am

It is inefficient compared with batteries (maybe 50% compared with 90%) and mechanical means compounding the already gross inefficiency of wind and solar power needing even more subsidy from the taxpayer.
As we have to install oil, gas, coal and nuclear to back up these so called renewable systems why not just put in those systems and forget the so called renewables that mandate their installation?
Why were renewables historically not used in comparison with conventional power systems? Why was molten salt not historically used to store energy? The answer is that these systems are grossly wasteful compared with conventional systems and only work with massive taxpayer subsidy.
If we in any way accept that we are saving the planet by using this proven wasteful technology then we have seriously lost our collective marbles.

Reply to  Martin Mason
July 16, 2017 3:06 pm

“Molten salt storage is less efficient than battery storage—only about 70 percent of the energy used to heat up the salts becomes electricity again …” link

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  commieBob
July 16, 2017 3:29 pm

Excellent link Commie, “says it will cost half as much as battery storage”

Reply to  commieBob
July 16, 2017 5:46 pm

Luis Anastasia July 16, 2017 at 3:29 pm
… it will cost half as much as battery storage …

If I’m digging ditches I can hire some workers and supply them with shovels. The capital cost is almost nothing. If I want to make a profit, or even just win the bid, I will buy a back hoe and hire one machine operator. The capital cost is much more but it’s the only way I will stay in business. link
You have to consider the whole budget not just capital cost. Suppose I have the choice between expensive efficient PV panels or nearly free but highly inefficient panels. The capital cost for the panels is no contest. On the other hand, the efficient panels will take much less real estate, require much less supporting structure, and the labor to install them will be much less expensive. Really, I can’t afford to use the cheap panels even if they are nearly free.
My favorite example is Henry Ford who said:

‘No one loses anything by raising wages as soon as he is able. It has always paid us. Low wages are the most costly any employer can pay. It is like using low-grade material–the waste makes it very expensive in the end. There is no economy in cheap labor or cheap material. The hardest thing I ever had to do was to reduce wages. I think we were the last big company to come to it. Now I am mighty glad that wages are climbing again. link

In the case of thermal storage vs. batteries, the trade off is between capital cost and efficiency. You could justify either choice, I suspect a major factor would be interest rates.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  commieBob
July 16, 2017 5:59 pm

Besides the cost advantage that thermal storage has over batteries, it doesn’t have the cycle limitation all battery systems have. That means you can fully charge and fully discharge a thermal storage system without degradation. Second, the salt used in Crescent dunes can be used as fertilizer when the plant is decommissioned. I guess that must mean it’s non toxic like many materials used in batteries. Third advantage is that it scales very well. Crescent dunes has a gigawatt hour of storage, very similar to this plant: which has been operating since 2009

So, you see, at night, when the sun goes down, you can still run your A/C with solar power.

Reply to  Luis Anastasia
July 17, 2017 6:51 am

So, you see, at night, when the sun goes down, you can still run your A/C with solar power.

Only if you spend 4 times as much to build it, and those panels have a life that’s not as long as you believe. The reliability of a system goes down as the number of components goes up, and a the failure rate of the system will be days, in some of these large systems, that means someone will be replacing panels every week if not every day, and the cost of the system will take even longer to return. It’s a waste of capital on what will be junk in 10 or 20 years.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  commieBob
July 16, 2017 6:01 pm
Luis Anastasia
Reply to  commieBob
July 16, 2017 6:05 pm

Commie, molten salt thermal storage is cost competitive with pumped hydro. The problem with pumped hydro is that it depends on location and isn’t available in the desert where solar excels.

Reply to  commieBob
July 16, 2017 6:33 pm

Look at the Solana production data. It follows a typical Communist pattern: 1. The problems of growth. 2. The growth of problems. Abengoa stock was at 0.04 yesterday.

Luis Anastasia
Reply to  commieBob
July 16, 2017 6:40 pm

Labeling the pattern as “Communist” ends this discussion. Thanks for playing.

Reply to  commieBob
July 16, 2017 7:18 pm

From your link, Commie:

Molten salt storage is less efficient than battery storage—only about 70 percent of the energy used to heat up the salts becomes electricity again, whereas batteries can be over 90 percent efficient.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I thought the losses associated with batteries were two fold; losses charging as well as losses discharging.
I’m not sure about batteries. I presume they could be recharged with DC if attached to a wind farm? . . but losses associated with the AC/DC conversion would likely be more than 10%, no?

Reply to  commieBob
July 17, 2017 7:30 am

Ford was able to raise wages because productivity gains enabled it.
The only thing that happens when you pay a person more than you can sell the stuff he is making for, is your company goes bankrupt.
(Or you start whining for subsidies)

Reply to  commieBob
July 17, 2017 7:31 am

Maintenance costs for molten salt are way higher.

Reply to  commieBob
July 17, 2017 7:32 am

Luis, quite while you are behind. Good strategy.

South River Independent
July 16, 2017 10:14 am

If we are past peak discovery and getting close to peak production of fossil fuels, perhaps we should conserve them by trying to use them efficiently. We definitely should not be driving up the cost of energy by forcing everyone to use unreliable, more expensive renewables.

Reply to  South River Independent
July 17, 2017 7:33 am

Since neither of your pre-conditions is true, the conclusion derived from them is meaningless.

David Cage
July 16, 2017 10:24 am

It is not merely deception that many engineers who have examined the problem with climate science are complaining about. It is incompetence at practical work that is a result of little or no training in practical aspects of their work being given to scientists.
They do not do even the sort of quality assessment on data collection demanded for very low end price commercial products. if subjected to this they rate as not suitable to be allowed to quote again failure level. the lowest possible category. Since they claim climate change is life or death it should actually face life critical standards of quality control.
The current spate of fridge fires is a result of the panic stricken response to environmental damage and teh change to an environmentally sound but dangerous coolant. That this was compounded to result in the towering inferno scenario by failure to test the insulation configuration used in the building cladding, again forced by environmentalists resulted in many deaths attributable to the climate lobby.
Lobbyist must be made to be accountable for hasty decision based on their hobby horses especially when we already have hindsight proving they was were at best oversold and at worst criminally promoted.

July 16, 2017 10:55 am

Could a reader in S.A. comment on how the blackout put a kink in the charging time for electric vehicles? Paul Homewood had a post up on 15 July titled “National Grid’s Thoughts on EVs.” In short, hard to expect a stressed grid to handle increasing numbers of EVs with ever-increasing battery size.
Meanwhile, my Sunday morning newspaper features an opinion piece by Ann McFeatters, “Drive toward electric-car future picking up speed.” Until you run out of electricity.

Lewis p Buckingham
Reply to  Windsong
July 16, 2017 2:20 pm

Not in SA but went through the Wran years in NSW when the power supply was not reliable due to failure to maintain base load power.
Integral energy simply reduced the voltage rather than shedding the load.
We called them brown outs.
Modern computers and microprocessors using items such as toasters and electric cars could never handle this.
All solar panels are pointed to the North to maximise total power input.
The problem with this is that the most power is used for airconditioning in the afternoon when the sun is in the north west to west.
As a result solar power is of little use to the electric car driven back home, or airconditioning, unless it is first stored.
The installation of smart meters means that the consumer will be slugged at peak times, when power is not
available from renewables, by time of day based charging.

South River Independent
Reply to  Windsong
July 16, 2017 8:35 pm

Notice that McFeatters claims that CO2 destroys the ozone layer.

July 16, 2017 11:07 am

South Australia could be doing the world a favour by advancing their disastrous green policies. Frankly we need to see the biggest energy collapse possible with dire consequences. Hard on decent folk, but necessary to give a real-world example of how a renewables-only system will not work and maybe, just maybe it’d knock some sense into policymakers. Would be a tough lesson, though.

Reply to  CheshireRed
July 16, 2017 1:42 pm

+10, agreed.

July 16, 2017 11:14 am

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies. -Groucho Marx

July 16, 2017 11:31 am

No need to deny global warming to advocate for sensible use of natural gas to back up renewable energy assets. As someone who agrees with the scientists that our planet is at very high risk of severe disruption from overheating, and who knows we have to act promptly to avoid calamity, I think clean natural gas used efficiently is possibly the best way to carry us through to full sustainability. Distributed generation, combined heat and power, is probably the best use.

Jeff Mitchell
Reply to  Jack Davis
July 16, 2017 2:36 pm

Most people that visit this site believe the world is warming. The argument is what is causing it. I and many others argue that mankind is not the problem, and or that any human method could stop the warming. It is really hard to fight nature.
If you want to curb CO2 emissions then nuclear is the way to go. Natural gas only releases less CO2 than coal, but it still releases it. Methane, the primary component in natural gas, is CH4, and releases CO2 and water when burned. Since I don’t believe that CO2 is the problem, I’d like to see concentrations as high as 1000 ppm as opposed to the current 400 ppm. It makes the world greener and allows more food to be grown.

Reply to  Jack Davis
July 16, 2017 4:12 pm

Jack Davis…Just curious…why do you believe “…that our planet is at very high risk of severe disruption from overheating, and…we have to act promptly to avoid calamity…”? Is it just because you have been incorrectly lead to believe that the vast majority of scientists think this? Is it faith in the computer models?
As a skeptic in CAGW for over 25 years, I have been looking for some evidence that my stance is incorrect. I haven’t found any yet, but so many others are convinced that we are heading into a crisis. Is there something other than a contrived consensus in a crisis and climate models that haven’t shown any skill ever?

Reply to  Jack Davis
July 17, 2017 7:37 am

Since we don’t need those renewable energy assets in the first place. All the extra infrastructure that vainly attempts to make them relevant is even less necessary.
BTW, there are no scientists who believe that our planet is at “very high risk of severe disruption”.
The vast majority of scientists put the sensitivity at between 0.3 and 2.0C. No chance whatsoever of severe disruption from that.
Heck, 2.0C will barely get us back to where we were doing the Minoan warm period and is still several degrees shy of the Holocene Optimum.

July 16, 2017 11:31 am

Do they realise that the buyer of the gas burns it, so there’s no planet saving in the equation.

Reply to  jaffa68
July 16, 2017 1:55 pm

Except US Green House Gas production peaked in 2007 and has been in rapid decline since then according to the EPA. This, again according to the EPA, is primarily do to the switching to natural gas. One would think this would be widely celebrated along with an even more substantive decline by Europe. It demonstrates that not only is the problem tractable, but could be resolved without catastrophic economic dislocation. One has to wonder why this reasonable simple path to saving the planet has gone almost unnoted by the main stream almost as if they didn’t really want there to be a reasonable solution.

John W. Garrett
July 16, 2017 11:42 am

When I read that article in the WSJ, I started shaking my head. Readers of WUWT and Jo Nova have known exactly what was going on in South Australia.
There was no surprise (other than that the WSJ failed to get the story right).

Martin Mason
July 16, 2017 11:50 am

Jack, what makes you think that?

Sweet Old Bob
Reply to  Martin Mason
July 16, 2017 2:43 pm

Jack, what makes you BELIEVE that ?

Monna M
July 16, 2017 11:57 am

“prevarication, fabrication and falsification” – why not just call it what it is: LYING.

Tom Judd
July 16, 2017 12:07 pm

I dunno, but for some reason, the first thing that came to mind when I read the above post was when I traveled to Nevada to get laid for the first time.
Now, I know what you’re thinking (and trust me, I’m thinking it too): what the heck do blackouts in Australia have to do with this Tom guy going to a prostitute in Nevada to get laid for the first time?
To be honest, I don’t know. Needless to say, I was a little bit up in years. To compensate for the significantly over ripe condition of my fruit I decided I’d make a grand entrance (um, the pun there is sort of intended) by a historic pilgrimage to a legal brothel in Nevada.
When I arrived at my destination the thoughtful Madame, with a volume that would’ve put a rock concert to shame, screamed out to the lady and I (and everybody else at the brothel, and in town, and in entire state of Nevada, the entire USA, possibly the entire galaxy); be gentle with him – he’s a VIRGIN.
So, now that you have detail on the first thought that came to my mind concerning this post, allow me to present to you the second thought that came to my mind: I’ve been seeing a woman therapist.
Now, allow me to present to you the third thought that just came to my mind: I probably could’ve accomplished the first and second things thought about by simply acquiring a wife.
And, now this brings me to item number four: I’m guessing I never acquired a wife because either I cannot be around women for more than short periods of time; or, women cannot be around me for more than short periods of time.
And this finally, finally, brings me to renewable energy. Unlike a long term, reliable energy source renewable energy is a little like women and me; it’s only viable for short periods of time, then you’re back on your own.
But look at it this way: when the power’s out and you’re sitting around a candle it’s a great mood setting for bringing up stories about getting laid for the first time.

Reply to  Tom Judd
July 18, 2017 3:21 pm

Don’t give up your day job, Tom.

Bill Illis
July 16, 2017 12:26 pm

Slightly off-topic, but with the large drop in temperatures in June 2017 (the super El-Nino impact is finally over – a few months late),
We can now check to see if the climate models are working against the observations again. ALL of the major climate model forecasts against June 2017 UAH and the NCDC (assuming it falls as GisTemp has done). Conclusion, back to NOT WORKING again after a temporary natural cycle up-tick).comment image

Reply to  Bill Illis
July 16, 2017 2:20 pm

“ALL of the major climate model forecasts against June 2017 UAH “
The usual con. They were not forecasting tropospheric temperatures. The forecast of NOAA is looking fairly good.

Bill Illis
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 16, 2017 3:42 pm

The climate modles also forecast troposphere temperatures and they were supposed to be 1.27 times HIGHER than the surface trend. There is only so many lines that one can put on a chart. But you already know this fact so your comment is disingenuous to say the least.
And the surface trend from the NCDC (on the chart if you did not look closely enough) is NOT “fairly good”, is it off by a mile, especially all the earlier 3.0C per doubling forecasts.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 16, 2017 4:30 pm

“The climate modles also forecast troposphere temperatures and they were supposed to be 1.27 times HIGHER than the surface trend.”
Often said, rarely substantiated. But there’s no excuse for plotting trop temps as a test of surface predictions. If you think models have failed on troposphere, show the predictions for that (and try comparing with, eg, RSS V4 and UAH V5.6).
And I don’t see why you have highlighted a supposed NOAA June reading that isn’t even out yet. Comparing unsmoothed monthly with annually smoothed prediction is pretty shoddy. And I have no idea how you put UAH V6 on a 1961-90 base when their data only started in 1979. And yes, I’m pretty sure you have plotted Hansen’s figures without transforming his 1951-80 base.

Bill Illis
Reply to  Nick Stokes
July 16, 2017 5:53 pm

Nick, if I produce a chart that says all data has been translated to the the 1961-1990 base period, you can be most assured that all data certainly has been.
And yes the troposphere (as in the the tropospheric hotspot) is certainly projected to have more warming than the surface as if you didn’t know that already. That is how the models work.
Your precious modelsto are back to being way, way too high now that we can see the El Niño temporary blip is over.

July 16, 2017 12:59 pm

South Australia, and probably Victoria, are going to replace their fleet of ambulances with solar powered vehicles.
However to ensure that they are able to ensure emergency service is still available at night or when the sun isn’t shining they are going to also purchase one equivalent conventional ambulance as backup for each solar powered ambulance.
This doesn’t make any sense at all.
Firstly in order to have any impact on emissions, any savings made by using the solar powered vehicle has to first offset the CO2 emissions created by the manufacture of not one, but 2 vehicles.
Secondly the operating cost of the service is going to double as they have to allow for the investment in and depreciation of 2 vehicles instead of one as well as increasing the number of ambulance staff accordingly so that each vehicle is ready for dispatch 24/7.

Reply to  kalsel3294
July 16, 2017 1:25 pm

These people are beyond hope. They profiled Arnold S recently about his commitment to global warming. He has 4 Hummers, but converted 3 to use hydrogen, so they don’t produce carbon pollution. So help me. They said that.

Reply to  joel
July 16, 2017 2:07 pm

Good for him. He planted some hydrogen-producing trees.

Reply to  kalsel3294
July 17, 2017 4:39 am

my jaw dropped
ive seen no mention of this
is it really true?
we cant be that stupid?
yes we can!
ditherall again i guess
and the ftard in vics as dim;-(
NT is looking better by the day.
oh and re why we dont like frakking?
limited potable artesian water for one
secondly we have OFFshore gas thats accessible and in place
why the hell do we risk our land/water when we can drop new bores offshore!
on the ambulances
i bet the supersized one for he mega obese sure cant run on solar.
and i wonder how many rural long distance trips need fail and people die befor they work it out?
then the fire/exploding battery and difficulty putting em out without toxic specialty retardants gets mentioned?

July 16, 2017 1:35 pm

Updated view numbers.
Over 3,100!! (up 1,300 since 6/9) views on my WriterBeat papers which were also sent to the ME departments of several prestigious universities (As a BSME & PE felt some affinity.) and a long list of pro/con CAGW personalities and organizations.
NOBODY has responded explaining why my methods, calculations and conclusions in these papers are incorrect. BTW that is called SCIENCE!!
SOMEBODY needs to step up and ‘splain my errors ‘cause if I’m correct (Q=UAdT runs the atmospheric heat engine) – that’s a BIGLY problem for RGHE.
Step right up! Bring science.—We-don-t-need-no-stinkin-greenhouse-Warning-science-ahead-
The papers have comments sections.
Interesting you tube and canon ball, feathers and vacuum. Things go wonkers w/o molecules.
Is space cold or hot? There are no molecules in space so our common definitions of hot/cold/heat/energy don’t apply.
The temperatures of objects in space, e.g. the earth, moon, space station, mars, Venus, etc. are determined by the radiation flowing past them. In the case of the earth, the solar irradiance of 1,368 W/m^2 has a Stefan Boltzmann black body equivalent temperature of 394 K. That’s hot. Sort of.
But an object’s albedo reflects away some of that energy and reduces that temperature.
The earth’s albedo reflects away 30% of the sun’s 1,368 W/m^2 energy leaving 70% or 958 W/m^2 to “warm” the earth and at an S-B BB equivalent temperature of 361 K, 33 C colder than the earth with no atmosphere or albedo.
The earth’s albedo/atmosphere doesn’t keep the earth warm, it keeps the earth cool.

Reply to  nickreality65
July 16, 2017 6:23 pm

Step Right Up!!!

Reply to  Yirgach
July 16, 2017 6:32 pm

The largest print giveth and the smallest print taketh away.

Reply to  nickreality65
July 17, 2017 6:36 am

NOBODY has responded explaining why my methods, calculations and conclusions in these papers are incorrect.

At a minimum they are incomplete. The atm isn’t a static transmission line, more an open air waveguide that has a bunch of considerations between the source and receiver.
But the work I’ve done would go nicely with the work you did. you should follow my name, and read the nonlinear cooling, and the referenced paper. You should be able to email me directly from there if you’d like.

Doug Taylor
July 16, 2017 1:48 pm

The WSJ reporters (and editors) are qualified when discussing financial, business, and economic issues. However they are not the brightest stars on the block, when they have to deal with technical or engineering issues. I subscribe to the journal, and was able to read some of the 250 or so web comments by the readers of the journal about this issue. The readers(comments) were better informed, than the author.

Reply to  Doug Taylor
July 17, 2017 7:46 am

“are qualified when discussing financial, business, and economic issues”
Do you have any evidence to support this belief?

Reply to  MarkW
July 17, 2017 8:58 am

Oh, just the fact that it has one of the largest circulations of any business-focused newspaper in the world. Do you have any evidence that the writers are not qualified on financial, business and economic issues?

Patrick MJD
Reply to  MarkW
July 18, 2017 5:11 am

“Chris July 17, 2017 at 8:58 am
Do you have any evidence that the writers are not qualified on financial, business and economic issues?”
Do you have any evidence they are?

July 16, 2017 2:52 pm

Either Australiam voters are stupid, inumerate or hard of science, or they vote for stupid politicians based on technically illiterate beliefs in energy science denial in what can’t deliver in established energy fact. This is stupid in aneduacted technological society. None of this is good, but it IS self inflicted. They vote in crooks they should know are deceiving them with a blatant but legalised climate change protection racket. Oh YEAH! Only Californians are as technically and economically delusional and easy to con, IMO.

michael hart
Reply to  brianrlcatt
July 16, 2017 3:10 pm

The Australians seem to have got it worse than many other nations, in that they voted for politicians who said they wouldn’t do certain things, but then went ahead and did them anyway. This does happen in other countries too, but the climate lies told to Australians seem particularly egregious.

shortie of greenbank
Reply to  brianrlcatt
July 16, 2017 7:44 pm

South Australia is currently a gerrymander government. The Labor/Greens held power the last two state elections despite receiving less primary votes. The Electoral Commission allows this by fudging in the independent electorates as Conservative despite the Independents themselves being Labor stooges. In this case a three horse race between the Indie, Labor and Conservative the people who voted Indie were more likely to vote Conservative instead of Labor therefore the % counts as Conservative primary votes meaning they don’t need to make the election results match reality. I think it was that bad that a couple of elections ago they lost substantial % but gains seats?
JoNova recently reported that instead of spending 8m to get a working coal fired power plant they are going to spend 100-114m on temporary diesel generators until they complete the expensive gas generators to provide support to their ailing wind industry.
After the 8m offer they have hence blown that coal plant up, coal dust everywhere….. lovely.

Svend Ferdinandsen
July 16, 2017 3:23 pm

Maybe they could se the problem if the ” ECOCITY World Summit” would loose the power.
Even if all the paticipants waved their hands, i think not they could make a turbine rotate.

Doug Taylor
July 16, 2017 3:44 pm

Ref Luis Anastasia July 16, 2017 at 10:42 am
“Robert Turner: “Ivanpah MIGHT actually be producing more energy than it’s consuming.”
Produced: 1,775,246 Mwh
Gas consumed: 3,310,819 MMbut
Note: 1 Mwh = 3.41 million btu, so yes, it’s a net producer of energy.…”
FYI: Mwh and MMbut are units of energy, however Mwh is work energy(useful), and MMbut is heat energy(not so useful). The conversion of the between the two is called thermodynamic efficiency. Please talk to one of your engineering friends about the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, before writing this nonsense.
As an analogy, it is like equating the US $(1) to the Canadian $(1.2); or the US$(1) to the confederate states of America$(infinity) .

July 16, 2017 3:44 pm

This energy fiasco and brainless move to wind power by our politicians makes me ashamed to be an Aussie.

July 16, 2017 4:13 pm

“Recognize and study reality.” Hahahaha. That’s crazy talk.

July 16, 2017 5:17 pm

Sanity from Down Under’s Wizard of Oz:

July 16, 2017 5:24 pm

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary.”
― H.L. Mencken
sums up the purpose of “climate change” succinctly.

lyn roberts
July 16, 2017 5:29 pm

Today south australia has predicted high winds, in excess of 90KM HR, are they going to have to turn off the wind powered generators, well lets wait and see.
Also it is going to be extremely cold as the Low Depression that is causing the high winds is also dragging in cold air from the southern ocean and it is winter here.
Then where is your power coming from, NSW, VIC, And Queensland backing up the other two states for their deficiency.
We have been told that our power costs are to rise in Queensland as at July 1st, yet to get the bill, I fear for all of us.

lyn roberts
Reply to  Another Ian
July 16, 2017 8:39 pm

Ian – its a nonsense, Qld is showing no other electricty generation on the chart, yet my family and friends between us are feeding in 100kw’s of power from our solar panels.
If i look at my front window, I can see about 8 house roofs close by to me that all have 20 solar panels on their roofs, every third house in our suburb has solar panels, I’m serious it’s a high owner occupied area with also a higher older population, and we are all doing our best to find cheaper electricity.
They would know, how much because we are all getting paid for our power at a insulting rate, but it all helps I suppose, how hard would it be to analyse the thousands of Cr’s in electricity bills, and then divide by 90 days to find an average, or is that tooo hard for them to figure out.

Reply to  Another Ian
July 17, 2017 4:54 am

some data sites show solar not as generation, but as a reduction in demand?
I don’t know if that’s the case here.
I note Queensland has 30% of homes with solar panels (just over 23% of all Australian homes have solar).
This can only increase, as will domestic battery use.

Reply to  Another Ian
July 17, 2017 10:36 am

Griff is right all you are doing is a reduction because that is what it is your power does from a distribution standpoint and it can’t make it past the first interconnector. The monitor system is about the distribution it isn’t there to monitor numbers for the Greens, Griff, You or any other group on what your house is producing which is truely just a reduction. Yes your solar panels are creating power but it’s all being consumed locally is what it is telling you.

Reply to  Another Ian
July 18, 2017 5:14 pm

“This can only increase, as will domestic battery use.”
Anyone who believes that a system that uses batteries can be considered ecologically beneficial is either extremely ill-informed, a bare-faced liar or a paid propagandist for the ‘unreliables’ industry.
In your case, I imagine, all three and then some.
Tell us, have you apologised to Dr. Crockford about lying about her professional qualifications to earn a few bob from whatever vile organisation pays you to vomit up your mendacious rubbish, grifter?

Gary Pearse
July 16, 2017 6:03 pm

The biggest weather story in Canada was not reported by MSM, amazing huh?
Easy to believe the cold in Greenland from a year almost without summer in Ontario. We are as much as 5-7C cooler than normal. A couple of warm days in May and in June but mostly unusually cool. There is warm weather in Western Canada right now but most of the summer on a usually hot prairies has been quite cool. My wife was in Russia in June and had to buy a coat and Europe has been cold so this is not local weather

Reply to  Gary Pearse
July 17, 2017 1:26 am

Europe has not been cool. Only Scandinavia and Russia has been cool. The rest of continental Europe particularly the Alps southwards has been significantly warmer than normal from June 1st to mid July so far.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
July 17, 2017 1:04 pm

It’s been a mild summer so far in the central U.S.
Chile was a bit chilly the other day. I read where they had an unusual snowfall down there.

Snarling Dolphin
July 16, 2017 7:48 pm

“Policy makers… couldn’t foresee temperatures soaring without wind.” People like this have no business making policy. I’m not sure if they’re capable of any useful function but certainly should be kept at a harmless distance from any and all energy related decision making.

John Michelmore
July 16, 2017 8:10 pm

The question is though; are the voters capable of seeing thru all the BS in relation to the Australian fiasco; I suspect not, and even if they did, who are they going to vote for????

Reply to  John Michelmore
July 17, 2017 4:44 am

some of us see throught it
but we are forced to vote here
so we cant even avoid the polls and make them realise we dont want the options offered at all.
what if they held an election and NO ONE voted?
(snitching an old bumpersticker;-)

Patrick MJD
Reply to  ozspeaksup
July 17, 2017 11:22 pm

You are not forced TO vote, only forced, under threat of a $200 fine, to REGISTER to vote. You don’t need to mark your ballot paper at all. But then the result isn’t any better and none of the alternate parties in Australia are any better. They are ALL left leaning and fully behind the green scare.

jim heath
July 16, 2017 9:02 pm

The only thing an idiot takes notice of is hunger, it will come.

July 16, 2017 11:23 pm

I’m building a new house at the moment and because it is 1.4kms from the grid it was much cheaper to go fully off grid – batteries, panels, generator, the works. 18 months back the generator cost A$7000 and went up about A$350 over a year and then the SA blackouts hit and the same gennie went up to A$9000.You couldn’t buy a decent generator anywhere for a while. Got to love private enterprise!

Reply to  Halcyon
July 17, 2017 8:19 am

I’m building a new house at the moment and because it is 1.4kms from the grid it was much cheaper to go fully off grid

Very reasonable for this situation. Do they have nat gas? Or can they drill a well? I think you have to have 30 acres here, and there’s nat gas all over.

July 16, 2017 11:27 pm

Lets be honest there is lots of blaming going on except to where it really belongs the state governments. The articles and comments here when they talk about Australia what they really mean is the East Coast states because apparently to those who live there that is the whole of Australia. Funny enough in Western Australia we don’t have the issue because we weren’t silly enough to sign into the national grid without certain state controls and we passed laws to make sure the state had access to resources. Now the East Coast want us to help pay for a pipeline over to them to give them gas to save them from there own stupidity. So it is just like the share of or GST revenue we raise and have to send to prop the whole Australia thing up.
Our prices have gone up thanks to the National regulator and it’s crazy rules (which the article touched on) but we have certainty of supply. The state governments are all trying to dodge the issue because they signed in to a national system to offload costs and didn’t think or do there homework. Most of the blame needs to be placed exactly where it lies with each state government.
The national regulator is out of control and that is a fedral government issue but the rules of the regulator were setup by each state. People may disagree with what SA under Jay Weatherill is doing but at least he has realized the problem and taken responsibility. When the power blackouts come this summer, and you know they will, you watch each Eastern State governments duck for cover.
What I would like in the meantime is for people to stop talking about it as an Australian problem which is a bit like calling a problem in a couple of states in USA an Americian problem as if it effects the whole of USA.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  LdB
July 17, 2017 12:01 am

While what you say is true, it was the introduction of Renewable Energy Targets (RET’s) by the Federal Govn’t under Howard in the 90’s that created the situation in the first place.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  LdB
July 17, 2017 8:17 am

I guess in relative terms you have a minor point states vs federal, but that’s because SA, being the world’s worst makes you less sorry guys look ‘good’. It also makes you accepting of a situation that is outrageous. Don’t just be happy because you have enough power – gad Oz makes EU look good, too. EU probably use that to feel good about their policies.

Lil Fella from OZ
July 17, 2017 12:34 am

Gore visits. Canberra in Australia, -6 degrees Celsius. So that’s what AGW is about. Today in SA the temperature did not get above 10.5 degrees Celsius.

July 17, 2017 2:12 am

Wind and solar are unreliable and storage is a nascent industry. Nuclear is banned. Coal and gas are being phased out due to the belief that CO2 is a pollutant. Wave energy is likely to be banned if there’s evidence of interference with marine ecosystems.
It does seem that the Australians are pushing themselves into a corner, greatly reducing their choice of energy generation systems. Thus it’s surprisingly there seems to be no mention of geothermal energy. Have the Australian considered geothermal at all?

Colin Barton
July 17, 2017 3:35 am

Actually, the worst blackout in South Australia was because the wind was so strong that the wind gene-raters had to shut down

July 17, 2017 4:03 am

Please do not publish articles such as this about Australia.
Us fair dinkum Aussies get very, very embarrassed.

July 17, 2017 5:10 am

When – rather than if – people start dying in weather extremes because of these insane policies to address unevidenced non-problems I want to see those responsible facing manslaughter charges. At present there is zero disincentive for them to halt the madness since there are apparently no responsibilities and no consequences for actions taken. The brainwashed electorate will carry on voting for it because they genuinely think they are saving the planet and a few deaths along with inordinately expensive electricity is a small price to pay.

Robert from oz
July 17, 2017 5:24 am

I seriously hope your taking the piss when you say some Aussie states are introducing electric ambulances ! What could possibly go wrong or does that phrase of unseen catastrophic event get hidden in the fine print .
I’m sick and tired of weeping for my country , my state of Victoriastan and those hippies in South Australia have now combined to make one big state now to be called “Dumbfukistan” .

July 17, 2017 6:50 am

Here is a letter sent to and published in the Australian (newspaper) on Monday July 17, 2017:
“Life in a cold climate.
Mornings have been bitterly cold lately. Intrigued by her silence, I checked on my wife on Saturday to see if she was alright. I found her sitting in her office, her head covered to the eyebrows by the hood of a thick jumper. I immediately felt ashamed, sad and angry.
With the price of electricity going through the roof, little essentials that were making our lives comfortable in our old age have been turned off, starting with the heater.
What’s happening? Instead of providing us with cheap and reliable energy, governments are presiding over the sale of our gas to nations that provide their people with cheap and reliable electricity.
We now turn off all lights, my wife spends her evenings reading under a heavy blanket and I watch the Tour de France in the dark, rugged up in an old sleeping bag. As I ponder on our predicament, I recall that in the 1970’s when I migrated here, all I could hear was that I had arrived in the lucky country. But we don’t say that anymore. Bitterness has replaced happiness, shame has replaced pride, sadness has replaced joy. My wife is cold. I am cold.”
Jean-Pierre Zajac, Uhima Beach, NSW.

July 17, 2017 8:46 am

‘Gas export licenses were issued without regard to the consequences for the domestic market,” said one pol. We should have had “a national interest test” in place to ensure domestic gas needs, said another.’
The problem was traditional thermal generators faced with the assault of subsidised and mandated solar and wind couldn’t enter into long term contracts for gas and preferred to go spot pricing particularly with the oil price drop. As it transpired the cheaper cost existing gas fields were beginning their decline in output and new fields needed long term contracts to defray development risk and overseas users were more than happy to oblige. As world demand grew to meet CO2 reductions naturally spot prices rose accordingly and those with the long term contracts were completely vindicated.
Fracking bans are just rubbing salt in the wounds as local gas generators find themselves drawing the short straw all due to solar and wind tipping a bucket on their demand forecasting. It’s all very well Govt mandating reservation of gas for local generation but there’s really no shortage, as the generators can purchase gas at world spot prices anytime. Indeed to virtually commandeer gas for local generation has an obvious fly in the ointment as Govts must pay just compensation to gas producers should they force them to sell below world parity. The mandate makes good political headlines but there’s no mention of price for the obvious.
Here’s the big problem with unreliable wind and it’s not hard to see how imposing that on thermal generators really upset the apple cart and any hope of long term demand forecasting just the same as solar has-
Notice how June was exceptionally low whereas May was more representative but nevertheless you can see a pitiful nadir in that month too that no 100MW Tesla tourist attraction will solve-
The big picture is massive disruption from unreliables with their dumping practices throwing the whole marketplace and any real forward planning into chaos and the Tesla battery is just a bit of political window dressing with the Green Groupthinkers in panic mode now.

July 17, 2017 9:01 am

Here’s the real truth behind the Tesla window dressing-
Basically we can have all the power we want anytime we’re prepared to pay the horrendous price on top of the world’s highest power prices now in South Australia and that will become even more obvious over time.
Green Groupthink equals believing you can disprove a fundamental axiom of engineering, namely that you can’t build a reliable system from unreliable componentry. They’re on a hiding to nothing with that now as Tesla is just a miniscule down payment on what’s needed to make their unreliable components reliable now and soon will be the peak summer of our discontent.

July 18, 2017 8:10 am

When they do a new edition of “Unbelievable but True” there needs to be a special chapter for the Australian Left ………creating and sustaining myths with an energy and an enthusiasm befitting the most eager of the worlds political correct ….if you dont have to live with them, you could almost admire their lemming like behaviour

July 19, 2017 12:29 am

It is delightful to hear that Al Gore is in Australia. Is there anything we in the US can do to convince you keep him there for, oh, say eternity or the rest of his natural life, at least? We would be eternally grateful to you.