The G-20 Drops Climate Change From Communique

Opposition from the United States, Saudi Arabia and others has forced Germany to drop a reference to financing programs to combat climate change from the draft communique at a G20 finance and central bankers meeting.

A G20 official taking part in the meeting said on Friday that efforts by the German G20 presidency to keep the wording on climate change financing had run into resistance.

“Climate change is out for the time being,” said the official, who asked not to be named.

At their last meeting in July 2016 in the Chinese city of Chengdu, the G20 financial leaders said they encouraged all signatories of the Paris Agreement on climate change to bring the deal into force as soon as possible.

But U.S. President Donald Trump, who took office in November, has called global warming a “hoax” concocted by China to hurt U.S. industry and vowed to unpick the Paris climate accord that is supposed to curb rising temperatures.

Under the Chinese G20 presidency, finance ministers last year called on all governments to implement financial commitments made under the Paris deal in a “timely” way and promised to continue working on climate finance in 2017.

Trump’s administration on Thursday proposed a 31 percent cut to the Environmental Protection Agency’s budget, as the White House seeks to eliminate climate change programs and trim initiatives to protect air and water quality.

Asked about climate change programs, Mick Mulvaney, Trump’s budget director, told reporters on Thursday “we consider that to be a waste of (Americans’) money.”

“I think the president is fairly straightforward. We’re not spending money on that,” he said.

Source: Reuters, 17 March 2017

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Resourceguy

Many of the others are too chicken to speak up.

MarkW

People are only willing to go so far for a hoax.

Griff

What hoax? GCHQ bugging Trump?

MarkW

The NYT had been declaring for months that Trump had been bugged, they wouldn’t lie, would they?

RockyRoad

Griff–your Left is caught between a rock and a hard spot: Either they lied in their newspapers (the NYT as a prime suspect), or the last president was up to no good.

Your choice (and it’s a binary one–you can’t weasel out).

Javert Chip

Griff

Realizing trolls are somewhat intellectually handicapped, I’ll help you by pointing out a couple things that have escaped your grasp:

1) “Climate change” & “GCHQ bugging Trump” are mutually exclusive

2) Two things can be true at the same time

You’re welcome.

schitzree

I’m sorry RockyRoad, but I’m afraid it isn’t a binary choice.

Just because Obama ordered his government cronies to wiretap any Trump communications they could, that doesn’t mean that the NYT wasn’t lieing about knowing anything. ~¿~

Chris in Hervey Bay

Well Griff, how did the private conversations between the Mexican President, the Australian Prime Minster, and President Trump get out ??

I suppose, Like Harry read_me.txt, they just made it up !

Any link to the NYT articles?

Here in Europe the MSM haven’t shown anything on that news…

TA

“What hoax? GCHQ bugging Trump?”

The British don’t have to wiretap Trump directly. The U.S. National Security Agency (NSA) scoops up a lot of data, some say *all* the data going over communication lines, and then shares this data with western, English-speaking democracies.

So, theoretically, a president could request that any of those nations provide him with data from the NSA data mine. I’m not saying that’s what happened, just that it is a possiblity, and British Intelligence has no need to directly wiretap Trump if the NSA *is* already wiretapping Trump and the British can get this data from the U.S.

Trump isn’t backing off his claim. Trump doesn’t appear to be a stupid man, to me. I know one thing, if Trump does produce proof, there are going to be a whole lot of people looking really stupid.

Bill Evans

true enough resource guy, & also their leadership will be paid to simply act concerned about scientific stuff they know is wrong, but they actually do get some leverage in markets.

Global Markets, global markets. In other words, running the entire planet as your personal idea of corporate/banking/governmental power,

heaven.

Amazing times, I thought I would never see this day and I have followed closely the GW issue for at least 15 years, skeptic from 12 years ago and denier for 8………..

Finally someone is saying the emperor has no clothes and I can see their hairy ass..

jjs

Agree, the same here and the same time frame.

Henning Nielsen

scottmc, totally agree, this is a great step forward, a lifting of oppression, like the abolishment of Apartheid in South Africa and the fall of the Berlin Wall.

Rod Everson

I was a skeptic from the beginning. It was obvious that the Left had found another way to both control the population and tax it to excess. Whenever that happens, any “science” they’re using to justify both is bogus until proven otherwise. In this case, they never managed that proof.

Someone in an earlier comment used the Emperor has no clothes analogy. President Trump is considered to act too childishly by the elites in thrall with global warming, so it’s somewhat ironic that he became the child that brought the GW Emperor down. And the ease with which it’s being done is indicative of the shabby foundation of the entire charade.

Phaedrus

Please tell me it isn’t true!

Tom Halla

A promising event. I wonder how long the German voters will finance green fantasies as well as the EU.

Griff

Forever?

Support for renewables is solid across all parties except the AfD

MarkW

Until the supply of OPM runs out. Which is coming soon.

brians356

Griff, you strike me as being young and impressionable. So there’s a good chance you’ll live long enough to realize the awful truth that you were taken in for so long by a cruel hoax and swindle. “Climate change is the greatest threat to civilization.” I’ll give you one last chance to ponder the sheer lunacy of that statement, and admit you harbor secret doubts, thereby proving you can reason.

Stephen Greene

How about the nearly 1/2 million households without electricity because the can’t afford it. How do you think they would vote? Sorry, 330,000, my error.

Archer

Solid across all parties, perhaps. The voters have other, more pressing concerns, such as whether they’ll have jobs in five years, and why costs are rising but wages aren’t. Probably why AfD is polling so high these days.

wws

“Griff, you strike me as being young and impressionable.”

Allow me to cast a vote for old and stupid.

Johann Wundersamer

Griff on March 17, 2017 at 12:34 pm
Forever?

Support for renewables is solid across all parties except the AfD.
___________________________________

Griff,

Support for renewables is solid across all parties except the one’s not interested in posing luxury.

Darrell Demick (home)

wws, +97!! Beat me to it, Skankhunt42 is definitely old and stupid.

Doug in Calgary

Griff, Sweden is now shutting down wind turbines and the government will phase out the subsidies that have been lavished on the industry. The dominoes are falling in Europe and soon coming to a country near you.

http://www.investors.com/politics/columnists/europes-lesson-teaches-us-dont-go-green/

That will change as the lights go out, industries have left, unemployed people can’t heat their homes, cold winter nights kill folks who can’t afford power, and no one can seek warm shelter because the streets are not safe.

Cyrus P. "Cy" Stell, PE, CEM, CBCP

“Climate change is the greatest threat to civilization.” would be an accurate statement if you add, “Pointless and conscriptive globalist policies to combat mythical…” in front of it.

TA

Thanks for that article, Doug in Calgary.

An excerpt from the article:

“So very quietly, Europe and other nations aren’t going so green anymore. The EU spent an estimated $750 billion on green energy handouts over the past decade and what it has bought for that is a doubling of its power costs.”

I think that quote sums it all up.

It’s getting so bad even the politicians are starting to pay attention.

Yep, Other Peoples Money and OPiuM and both addicting.

Ken

Let’s see, Archer. Why do you suppose prices are rising in Germany? Could it be because electricity costs 3X in Germany what it does in the US, and this rise started when they shutdown their nukes and a bunch of their coal and started trying to make it go with renewables?

MarkW

Oddly enough, say OPM fast enough, and it sounds like opium.

Archer

I think you rather missed my point, Ken.

Ken

Will Germany follow S. Australia into the renewables sewer? S. Australia has consumed every last drop of the Kool Aid.

schitzree

There is ALWAYS more kool-aid. And I fear they will never run out of gullible young fools to serve it too.

Gullible is a tad harsh. They have been indoctrinated since youth and lived in saturation mainstream media, they really have little hope. The smart ones capable of independent thinking and reasoning will eventually twig but the majority will probably remain beleibers, unless they are told its ok to believe something else.

Robert from oz

Ken I’m offended by your koolaid remark , south Aussies have not drunk anywhere near enough !

Phaedrus

There’s plenty more “kool aid”.
What we need to do is educate folk, just like the High Court Judge in the UK did with Al’s “Inconvenient Bollocks”.

Johann Wundersamer

Red Alert:

“Griff on March 17, 2017 at 12:34 pm

Forever?

Support for renewables is solid across all parties except the AfD”

Griff isn’t just a isolated idiot;
___________________________________________

He’s a “spring into existence group of trolls
whenever needed”.

Timo Soren

Just wait about 3 more years and Germany’s inane energy policies will completely un-wind.
3x the rate for electric and many failed windmills coming soon.
They will get over the mass hysteria in bit.

Griff

Nonsense.

They continue to develop wind farms on and offshore.
http://www.rechargenews.com/wind/1213694/germany-dominates-as-eu-adds-125gw-of-new-wind-in-2016

Once the north/south HVDC link is complete in 2025 things will really take off.

MarkW

Yes, the prices they will have to pay are getting ready to take off.

brians356

Griff, are you a betting man? I am. Care to put your money where your mouth is?

Ken

Griff: “things will really take off”. Great choice of words. It reminds me of fPOTUS Obama’s choice of words when describing the effects on the price of electricity in the US when his carbon plans were implemented. He said those prices would “necessarily skyrocket”. So it sounds like Germany’s skyrocket has only just left the launching pad. 3X the cost of electricity in the US. The sky is the limit, clearly. And you, somehow, come off sounding excited about that. If we follow the same path, we will destroy our economy long before CO2 will be curtailed enough to save our planet. Of course there are two problems with that. 1) CO2 is not going to drive the warming to levels that cannot be overcome. 2) CO2 will not be curtailed. If the US were to magically totally shut off CO2 emissions, China, India, and the undeveloped world will swamp us with their CO2.

Why don’t you get a productive hobby?

MarkW

Government workers don’t care how much electricity costs. They’ll just raise taxes in order to give themselves a raise.

Johann Wundersamer

Griff, no one here believes in a

“Griff on March 17, 2017 at 12:33 pm
Nonsense.

They continue to develop wind farms on and offshore.”

Griff trolls ‘Nonsense’.

Latitude

Scottish Power cancels £5.4bn Argyll Array offshore wind farm plan

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/dec/13/scottish-power-cancels-argyll-array-offshore-wind-farm

RockyRoad

You are correct, MarkW: Government workers don’t care about profit, nor do most people who work in socialist economies.

I used to work for a large public utility in the US (my expertise was computer-designed mining) and whenever our cost of production went up, we simply requested that the Public Utility Commission raise electricity rates an equal amount.

There was no attempt to optimize production to lower the costs and never was the word “profit” mentioned since we had customers by the proverbial throat.

Later I worked for the gold mining section of this large company and the cost of production along with profit margin was always the focus because we couldn’t just call up and request a price increase from those that set the daily spot prices for precious metals.

Javert Chip

Griff

“They” are the politicians & bureaucrats, not the German population and manufactures paying 3X USA energy rates.

You, however, are correct: for now (at least), “They” are continuing to poorly invest German taxpayer money in wind farms on and offshore.

Hivemind

It isn’t a matter of whether “things will really take off.” It’s a matter of whether they’ll have power when they flick that switch.

I’m betting for major country-wide power failures.

Darrell Demick (home)

Skankhunt42, the true science is there, and has been there, for 600 million years.

CO2 is the molecule of life on this planet:
The AVERAGE atmospheric concentration over the past 600 million years is between 2,000 ppm and 2,500 ppm;
The concentration has varied from a high of 7,000 ppm, to a low of 250 ppm;
Even at 7,000 ppm, this is considered as a TRACE molecule in our atmosphere, at a mere 0.7%;
Put another way, at the highest atmospheric CO2 concentration, the remainder of the composition of the earth’s atmosphere summed up to a whopping 99.3%;
Yup, trace molecule, even at it’s highest concentration;
And although there is no correlation between atmospheric CO2 concentration and temperature, for reference purposes the average temperature has varied between a high of 22 C, and a low of 12 C;
A temperature range that has ALWAYS been conducive to life on this planet;
And yes, cold kills way more people every year than heat;
And yes, a warmer planet is a more benign planet – lower frequency and lower intensity of weather related events;
And yes, our species should be fully congratulated for unlocking all of the CO2 that was sequestered from the atmosphere during the Carboniferous period – this has both extended the time frame for life to survive on this planet, and has also helped (albeit slightly, our CO2 release is still a very low percentage of the total annual release – which is NATURALLY occurring!) to higher crop yields due to more CO2 in the atmosphere.

I would dearly love to know of your connection to the renewable energy industry – you must be very heavily invested and I hope that you “make hay while the sun shines”. Either that your you cannot grasp the pragmatic approach to the data.

And have zero idea of the First Law of Thermodynamics.

Or, more succinctly, you are merely a troll ……

TA

Thanks, Latitude, for the link.

A quote from it:

“Scottish Power has abandoned a £5.4bn plan to build the world’s largest offshore wind farm, after four years of planning, because it is “not financially viable”.

The decision not to go ahead with the Argyll Array, which would have provided green energy for 1 million homes, is another blow to the government’s plans to tackle a looming supply problem and to meet its low carbon targets.”

“not financially viable”. Green energy investors beware. Fooling yourself into thinking that green energy is a viable alternative may cost you a lot of money. It’s already cost the taxpayers of the world a bundle, and the taxpayers are not going to pay anymore.

Harry Passfield

Griff is obviously an avid supporter of the Hegelian idea of ‘Problem, Reaction, Solution’. AGW was the ‘problem’; renewables (wind/solar) is the ‘reaction’; and the ‘solution’ will be when it all goes tits up and the Soroses and Greens of this world move in and take over what will be a ruined civilisation. Meanwhile, the rest of us will be up to our ankles in sh1t – and before you say, ‘that’s not too deep’, we’ll all be head first.
Griff is just a useful idiot.

Auto

Harry
Thanks.
Lovely terminology – “Meanwhile, the rest of us will be up to our ankles in sh1t – and before you say, ‘that’s not too deep’, we’ll all be head first” and, sadly, for the under forties of this world, only too likely.

Auto – still learning and applauding in my seventh decade!

Yirgach

It should be Possibly Possible Problem…

Hivemind

Harry, CAGW isn’t the problem. Capitalism is the problem. CAGW is the solution, since it needs the entire world to adopt socialism/communism before it can work.

Gunga Din

Timo Soren March 17, 2017 at 11:20 am
Just wait about 3 more years and Germany’s inane energy policies will completely un-wind….

Timo, perhaps if you had said ” have passed-wind” more readers would have gotten your point? 😎

milwaukeebob

“…and trim initiatives to protect air and water quality. Alt-Left Reuters – – Fake News. That’s how they do it. Slide in an innocuous few words that have no bases in fact which “others” pick-up and twist into, “Trump eliminates all clean water and air programs!” The headline of which will be – “POLLUTION ON COMEBACK PATH”

Gunga Din

“It riles them that you perceive the web they weave. And keep on thinking free.” – The Moody Blues

milwaukeebob

+1 Got’a the Blues

Ernest Bush

The headlines from MSM don’t matter for those who support Trumps efforts. To us, the people behind those headlines are irrelevant. They scream like a bunch of spoiled children. They lie and exaggerate constantly and that is dangerous for our republic.

Regardless, I get my news from the internet from people who demonstrate common sense in their writing.

milwaukeebob

Here also. From a phycological view, I find it most interesting that “skeptics” subconsciously analyze/sense truth (or at least a honest attempt at it) in both writings and speech AND those that follow dogma without question, can not or their minds do not have that capability. And level of intelligence and/or wealth of knowledge have no “effect” in either case. Great book on this subject by Malcolm Gladwell, titled: blink. Sub-title: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking. I find this applies to right and left political positions (in general) also.

George Hebbard

No doubt, Trump has foot in mouth error again. Global Warming was a hoax developed by Maurice Strange ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/paris-climate-change-conference/12035401/Farewell-to-the-man-who-invented-climate-change.html ) and his friends Obama and Gore. His Club of Rome friends thought that a global population of about 5,400,000 (memory?) was about right.

Different thing. Trump was referring to how Obama got snookered by China in the runup to Paris.

JEM

Actually, we got snookered by the Chinese and the Indians back in the earlier days when our brilliant negotiators winked at their cheating on CFCs (and letting the Russians claim Soviet-levels of emissions as their baseline) to get them on board with Kyoto. It’s just been one game after another ever since.

Owen in GA

Trump didn’t get snookered by anyone! He saw a chance to socialize the rest of the economy and took it. He had already set 20% onto the socialist glide path with Obamacare and saw the other 80% easily within grasp if he could only nationalize the energy sector than all would be within government and nothing without.

Owen in GA

Of course I meant Obama…for some reason I just don’t like typing that name

Stewart Pid

Maurice Strong

George Hebbard

Correct!

Auto

But was he not strange – if not Strange?
Didn’t seem to like humanity – officially his own species, I gather.

Auto

Walter Sobchak

I blame the Russians and the Gulf Arabs. Strong and other western leftists may have come up with the idea, but Ideas need money to be promoted.

Resourceguy

Now insert a new statement condemning deforestation and especially deforestation for green energy policy such as clear cutting U.S. forests for wood pellets shipped to UK and EU power plants. That would get their attention in Brazil and the UK and EU.

Griff

Only the UK takes US wood, as far as I’m aware.

all green organisations oppose this.

Great! So Greenpeace folks are gonna be chaining themselves to the wood pellet trains next week!

brians356

We can hope they’ll lie down in front of those trains. Like the genius who tried to halt an ammunition train in Oakland, Ca, during the first gulf war.

ralfellis

>>ammunition train.

I remember that one. Only a greeny fantasist would try to stop 500 tonnes of iron and steel with a couple of spindly legs. The demonstration was a bit like the whole wind turbine experiment – it failed.

R

rd50

Since you are aware, please give us a list (or links) of green organisations who opposed this before or during the development of this absolutely stupid decision to replace coal with wood pellets at the largest coal burning electricity generating plant in the UK.
It does not matter if the wood is coming from the US or any other areas.
The idea is stupid. No green organisation opposed this transition. NONE.
Surprise, now they do.
More surprises are coming to the greens.

Resourceguy

So other wood does not count?

Resourceguy

Oppose it or turn a blind eye to it?

Johann Wundersamer

Griff, since when

“Griff on March 17, 2017 at 12:35 pm

Only the UK takes US wood, as far as I’m aware.

all green organisations oppose this.”
_____________________________________

Is that ‘all jesuitic green organizations’

or ‘all hillary green organizations’

or ‘all russian influenced organizations ‘

or even all OPEC steered organizations –

just declare once.

That in many ways and at many levels was the most damaging thing ever done to Britain since the bombings in WWII. Many Brits have died because of those projects. You don’t hear that in the MSM.

rd50

+100

Harry Passfield

Thing is, in Griff’s mind, the destruction of a huge FF power station like Drax and the economy it supported is a far greater result than opposing the wood-pellet and deforestation of NC. It’s a classic activist dilemma: play for the major prize yet pretend you oppose the methods used to achieve it.

Its another small but significant step in the right direction. One of Germany’s ministers said it can no longer afford to lead by example, before being forced to walk that comment back. And last year Germany’s CO2 emissions rose again despite Energiewende. And its two largest utilities suffered horrendous losses. The green damage just keeps visibly piling up.

Griff

utter nonsense.

Its 2 utilities split into green and non-green parts… the losses are beng loaded on the stranded assets of the fossil fuel part, along with the massive nuclear decommissioning costs.

Renewables are successful and popular and continuing to be rolled out in Germany

Kalifornia Kook

Renewables have been spectacularly successful in Germany. The lack of reliable, economical electricity is rapidly driving out manufacturing, and with it, jobs, and together, driving down the taxes receipts required to maintain infrastructure. Soon, Angela will have succeeded where the Soviets and East Germany could not. They will have destroyed Germany.
That is an amazing success story!

You are now into total delusion,Griff

What you claim is misleading because the German Government FORCED shut downs of power production that has helped create this loss in the first place.

Here is a German website,translated into English about those Companies:

German Power Sector In Massive Trauma As Electricity Giant EON Set To Post Colossal €12.4 BILLION Loss!

“The latest news is that German electricity giant Eon expects to post a massive 12.4 billion euro loss for the year 2016”

“The Handelsblatt reports that “at least 1000 jobs” are planned to be slashed by Eon in an effort to get the cost situation under control.”

and,

“Just days ago NTZ wrote here that another of Germany’s major power producers, RWE, also posted staggering losses of 5.7 billion euros.

Eon’s latest loss comes in the wake of a 7-billion euro loss the German power giant posted a year earlier, in 2015.”

http://notrickszone.com/2017/03/10/german-power-sector-in-massive-trauma-as-electricity-giant-eon-set-to-post-colossal-e12-4-billion-loss/#sthash.Lw70j2BD.dpbs

=====================================================

Then we have yet ANOTHER subsidized company go bankrupt:

Subsidized Company, Supplying Subsidized Industry (Which Is Based On Subsidized Junk Science) Files For Bankruptcy

http://notrickszone.com/2017/03/11/subsidized-company-supplying-subsidized-industry-which-is-based-on-subsidized-junk-science-files-for-fankruptcy/#sthash.aifPoelp.dpbs

michael hart

Griff, the reality is that schizoid politics in Germany is making traditional profitable industries into a game strictly for masochists, while simultaneously pumping up the renewables side with vast amounts of tax-payer’s money. It is unsustainable(*), and one side is headed for oblivion. The management has (sensibly?) decided to wash their hands and divest themselves of the political risk, simply letting investors decide where to invest their money, if at all. Management’s hand has been forced because, ultimately, a government can bankrupt any industry with regulations if it really wants to.

* As you already commented above, major political parties currently DO give the impression they will continue sending good money after bad indefinitely. And that is indeed what renewables require in order to continue existing while the public coffers and tax-payer wallets are not empty. The situation cannot last indefinitely. When it changes, those political parties may find that they are now minor political parties. Brave investors who choose fossil fuels and nuclear could make a killing if they get their timing right.

MarkW

In Griff’s mind reality begins and ends with whatever a left wing government says.
The German government says renewables are popular. So they are.

Johann Wundersamer

Griff on March 17, 2017 at 12:36 pm

utter nonsense.

“Renewables are successful and popular and continuing to be rolled out in Germany”
_____________________________________

utter nonsense.

Darrell Demick (home)

Time for a real-life story, Skankhunt42 ……

During my working career, I was employed by a company who was purchased by a bigger company. The bigger company assigned an inordinately high amount of the purchase price to the country/affiliate where I live, due to tax implications. A good idea, however we were always burdened with the high purchase price which meant that our DD&A rates (depletion, depreciation and amortization) were always high, which means that our local affiliate always had poor financial metrics compared to the other affiliates around the world.

Yup, sucks to be me but the story is that creative accounting can do whatever you want it to do. Ditto simulation modeling. And I will give you credit, you hit the nail directly on the head when you said that “the losses are being loaded on the stranded assets of the fossil fuel part, along with the massive nuclear decommissioning costs.” Well done! Creative accounting at it’s finest!!! And the ONLY way to make the cost of renewables even appear to be somewhat competitive – WHICH THEY ARE NOT!!!

Troll ……

ossqss

Rudd, I found this comment from TonyfromOz , let alone the article, quite an eye opener on the numbers game played with respect to renewables. And some wonder why they are in trouble.

http://joannenova.com.au/2017/02/does-solar-pv-in-half-of-europe-make-more-energy-than-it-consumes/#comment-1895082

Latitude

But if it’s the end of the world….what does money matter /snark

I’m sure the Maldives (get paid) will drop out next…………

Bob Denby

Three cheers for this important display of Presidential courage!! (Don’t even think of the alternative!)

markl

“Climate change is out for the time being,” Too much time and and money invested in the ideology to drop out now. The AGW crowd will be having their own “pause”. Ignoring it will not make it go away. We need to expose and completely discredit the scam while we can. So far, so good for the repudiation.

Adam Gallon

And the rest of the reluctant funders breathe a sigh of relief! “Great, we don’t have to look like the bad guys”!

M Courtney

Anthropogenic Global Warming is not a “hoax” concocted by China

We Brits invented it back in the 80s.

Monetized it.

commieBob

MoB denies that it was Margaret Thatcher’s fault. link

M Courtney

It was still British from the 80s.
Maggie wasn’t responsible for everything bad from that time. She didn’t do the Wham Rap, for instance.

However, from your link, did you see my father’s comment?

commieBob

M Courtney March 17, 2017 at 1:20 pm

However, from your link, did you see my father’s comment?

That was most enlightening. When scholars begin to study the history of CAGW, your father’s comment will be the logical starting point.

Clearly, CAGW provided politicians with an excuse to do something they wanted to do anyway. I still don’t fully understand that part.

Kalifornia Kook

Yeah, but with us (I mean US) it would have floundered. That’s why Gore got the Peace Prize: biggest hoax pulled on humanity yet.
And he would probably argue that he invented it – just like he invented the internet.

Kalifornia Kook

*without us*
How come I only catch these errors after I hit Post?

jjs

Same time you decided to go into the metric system full tilt and embrace the atheist leftist ways. The street I lived on in England is now a paky strong hold with no Christianity in site and everything measured in mm.

Gary Pearse

M Courtney your father’s 1981 essay predicting the UK beginnings of global warming as a political initiative and how it would develop, is one of the most masterful pieces of work on any topic in the now mostly corrupted and dismal discipline of polisci. It deserves a prominent place in an issue that history will judge as the near self immolation of modern civilization. My hat is off to Richard Courtney.

A few years back, in the rough and tumble of argument on this site, I took issue with his socialist leanings, arguing the left and it’s world gov aspirations was the principal driver of GW hype for cynical political purposes, although I was aware of his own personal anti GW crisis position.

Part of my point of view lay in the very different political spectrum on this side of the pond that identifies the Democrats as ‘socialist’ even though traditionally they lie to the right of anything on the European side. It is clear to me now that although it is still ‘socialist’ politics pushing the issue here, it is better understood as ‘Champaign socialists’ or wealthy elites and connected politicians. It’s ironic, perhaps that the less fortunate in America have put their trust in a very successful capitalist because voters found that Democrats real constituents were outside the country. It should be noted that the NDP and Liberals in Canada, too, have abandoned constituents who voted for them for an international constituency. I have socialist family with whom I argue now and again but my argument has evolved to “The party you support is no longer what you think it is.”

M Courtney

Gary Pearse, I hope my father sees your comment. I will point it out to him when he returns from the lake District where he is holidaying (despite not being able to walk that far – silly place to go).

You make an interesting point about the Blairite / Clintonite left being internationalist as ‘class’ out ranks ‘nation’ in terms of identity. Yet for those with least material resources – the working class – culture is local. And thus ‘nation’ and ‘region’ is of a higher priority in terms of identity for the working class left than for the middle class left.

Jean Renoir identified this split back in the 30s/40 in his film La Règle du Jeu.

However, unlike my father, I voted for Corbyn as Labour Party leader. He is far more left than anyone you can imagine in US politics.
The Blairite / Clintonite left are not the only game in town on this side of the pond.

troe

Germany (land of my birth and fond memory of my childhood) has no easily accessible oil, gas, or anthracite coal therefore the enrergiwende can at least be intelligently debated there. Unplugging the nuclear in fear of a Tsunami… that is pure stupidity. America ( land I feel fortunate to live in) is blessed with abundance in all of these fantastic fossil fuels. I won’t insult anyone’s intelligence by explaining why the Germans want to see us follow their lead. Trump is the game changer and we are loving it.

joelobryan

For those not connected to the Twitter-verse, you’re missing all sorts of Liberal and Eco (read NRDC, Sierra Club, econutter journalist bedwetters) whining, crying, and bedwetting tweets today over Mick Mulvaney’s straightforward, honest comment that the end of the Climate Change gravytrain on the US taxpayer dime is over. Their whining, butt-hurt, teeth gnashing on twitter is truly hitting new levels. It melts my heart.

As President Trump said”You can get on board the Trump Train,or get run over”

Roger Knights

The greens will probably get organized enough and loud enough to pressure congress to restore many or most of those cuts.

Cannot happen so far as UN goes. UNFCCC voted to recognize Palestine last year. By US statutes passed in 1991 and 1994, it and affiliated organizations (IPCC and GCF) MUST be completely defunded. Whining doesn’t matter.

Javert Chip

Roger

I may be overly cynical, but I wonder how much in green campaign contributions go to Republicans (AKA the majority in Congress)?

Wild guess: not much.

Roger Knights

Greens have convinced a fair number of Republican politicians (e.g., Baker and Schulz) of the correctness of their cause, and enough of them will therefore break ranks with the rest of their party, especially under pressure, to defeat or substantially modify Trump’s climate cuts (in combination with Democrat congresscritters).

IMO, Trump shouldn’t have tried to cut everything that he did. He should have made a more surgical strike. He should have consulted more with people like Carlin, who know the agencies from the inside.

Hivemind

Ristvan, Obama simply ignored that law & continued to fund the UNFCCCP as much as it wanted.

Sommer

Here’s an article that talks about ‘confirmation bias’, ‘the Backfire Effect’, ‘belief perseverance’, ‘motivated reasoning’ and ‘cognitive dissonance’.
http://www.jakeshealthsolutions.com/you-cant-handle-the-truth-how-confirmation-bias-distorts-your-opinions-4143
We’re going to have to take this quite seriously. These psychological states are real as far as I can tell.

TA

The Democrats can truly be called the “Hysterical Party”.

Mark T

[quote]But U.S. President Donald Trump, who took office in November,[/quote]…
Really? And here I thought he took office in January.

He did. But in many ways he took charge in November.

Gary Pearse

The other governments in the G20 are actually relieved that they can slip the shackles off, except for China and Russia , which found the idiocy of the west with its self destructive policy an unexpected bonus for them. They didn’t have to pledge anything but words about action decades into the future when they knew the scam wouldn’t endure and the would have been given a to-the-middle – of-the – century economic headstart. With EU freezing in the dark, Russian gas would be in huge demand too.

I’m impressed that the major thing acting here is nowhere taught in political science. Reagan demonstrated that aggressive statements, stirring the international pot into disarray and fear, and building up your military was all you needed. The US hostages of eight years in Iran were let go even before Reagan set foot in the Whitehouse and the USSR collapsed a few years later. Kennedy demonstrated the principle by ultimatim during the Cuban Crisis. The Persian Nadir Shah used it in a little more sanguine way when he invaded India in 17th Century. An officer in his garrison in Delhi was murdered while he was busy sweeping through the rest of the country so on his return he ordered the slaughter of 25,000. The next few days and weeks tributes from all parts of the country were brought to him and the invaders ran the country for a couple of centuries.

I’ve commented on other threads on” Pearse international political science 101″: Totalitarian regimes are held together by deep fear of authority from childhood to the grave. This is their strength and their terminal weakness. I call it the ‘when the cat’s away the mice will play’ paradigm. Well the cat’s back! The elements of the NWO will collapse like a house of cards. Stick around. There will be other surprising developments according to the theory.

troe

Borrowing from Stanley Kubrick: How I learned to stop worrying and love Trump. Their butt hurt is our joy.

Kalifornia Kook

+1!

On the post including this from Benny Peiser is this.

http://www.iea.org/newsroom/news/2017/march/iea-finds-co2-emissions-flat-for-third-straight-year-even-as-global-economy-grew.html

So it begins. Any excuse to laud renewables for saving the planet.

Griff

Well that’s true isn’t it? Co2 emissions are flat and it didn’t stop growth.

As is this week’s news 17% of EU energy comes from renewables and the EU is on target to meet its 2020 20% target for that.

Roger Knights

17% sounds high. Link?

Latitude

17% and 20% is not enough to flat line it

Archer

Griff is talking about this, and as usual is being disingenuous in his claims.

For the purpose of this claim the EU includes biomass (which mostly consists of burning garbage in Sweden afaik) and hydro as renewables, which make up the vast bulk of renewable energy production in a select few countries – which countries, being so reliable on hydro and biomass, massively skew the statistics.

For most other purposes, hydro and biomass aren’t included as renewables because they’re considered to be net producers of greenhouse gasses. Biomass – which, again, sources much of its fuel from garbage –
produces a net CO2 increase. Hydro is considered to produce huge clouds of methane.

Archer

*reliant on

Where is the source for that claim,Griff?

Meanwhile the list of failed renewable companies are very long despite large infusion of Tax money,From 5 years ago:

List: 36 Of Obama’s Taxpayer-Funded Green Energy Failures

http://nation.foxnews.com/2017/03/17/judge-napolitano-british-foreign-surveillance-likely-provided-obama-transcripts-trumps

Don’t be a fool over Wind and Solar power claims.

MarkW

If Griff counting faceplate ratings again?

clipe
Johann Wundersamer

“Griff on March 17, 2017 at 12:27 pm
Well that’s true isn’t it? Co2 emissions are flat and it didn’t stop growth.

As is this week’s news 17% of EU energy comes from renewables and the EU is on target to meet its 2020 20% target for that.”
____________________________________

Griff, you isolated Idiot:

What are you asking.

Javert Chip

What? Griff is trying to mislead us in his comment?

I’m shocked…SHOCKED!

Cyrus P. "Cy" Stell, PE, CEM, CBCP

Griff: you’re entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts. (I stole it, can’t remember from whom, but I just gave credit so it’s not plagiarism.)

Latitude

odd…..I guess they are saying it took ~20 years of flat temps for CO2 to flatline

Chris Hanley

… Well that’s true isn’t it? Co2 emissions are flat and it didn’t stop growth …
=============================
I wonder where the extra CO2 in the atmosphere came from:
http://www.climate4you.com/images/CO2%20MaunaLoa%20MonthlySince1958.gif

rd50

Yes, looking at the graph you posted: “2016 will be the highest year of CO2” and the warmest year ever. However, where did the CO2 come from in this warmest year? Did ElNino have something with the oceans releasing more CO2? We are told that CO2 emissions have not increased in the last three years
“Global energy-related carbon dioxide emissions were flat for a third straight year in 2016 even as the global economy grew, according to the International Energy Agency, signaling a continuing decoupling of emissions and economic activity. This was the result of growing renewable power generation, switches from coal to natural gas, improvements in energy efficiency, as well as structural changes in the global economy.”

CO2 emissions have become very close to flat over the last 3 years.

The numbers show this is mainly due to the switch to Natural Gas combined cycle power plants from coal fired power plants.

Natural gas emits less CO2 and the plants are now more efficient overall than coal. This is really the future, not renewables.

While human emissions flatlined, CO2 in the atmosphere increased by the highest amounts ever in the last two years, 3.0 ppm in 2015 and 2016.

But that was due to the El Niño and rising temperatures as a result.

That graph is misleading Chris Hanley. It shows total co2. The co2 ppm growth per year leveled off in 1998. It has been around 3 ppm per year since, in spite of a billion metric tons produced year on top of year. Even going further back, there are no negative numbers. Rather than putting up a misleading graph. Read some of the other comments and address this. Tell me why there hasn’t been a year with a 4 ppm? Tell me why the sinks are able to take in one and a half times as all of the co2 produced in 1965? We’re the sinks defective in 1965 ? And if you do the calculations, year after year, there is a large discrepancy between the accounting of co2 that ends up in the atmosphere and the amount that is acknowledged to have been absorbed by the land and oceans ? Tell me why if you plot, and please do so, instead of this one, the temperature anomaly for each year against the co2 anomaly for that year. All your graph illustrates is that co2 follows temperature from 800 years ago.

Griff

“a “hoax” concocted by China to hurt U.S. industry”

A complete lie.

Let’s see anyone defend this nonsense… even skeptics here surely can’t advance evidence for that?

Mark from the Midwest

I’ve been assured by senior officer of the Nachrichtendienst des Bundes that Griff is employed by the Guówùyuàn Xīnwén Bàngōngshì, (SCIO).

Darrell Demick (home)

Okay, Mark from the Midwest, looks like I will need some serious physiotherapy, …. , after reading your post I laughed so hard that I fell out of my chair!!! My left hip will never be the same!!!

; )

Latitude

oh what the hey….we all know what he meant

Speaking of messing up words…..> Dr. Susan J. Crockford

MarkW

It really is pathetic how Griff tries to ride any hobby horse he can find.

Gil

Griff is really feeling his oats today.

Louis

One man’s “lie” is another man’s negotiating tactic. At least Trump is employing such tactics against China instead of using them against his fellow citizens. You can “keep your plan and your doctor” was a lie used to trick Americans into supporting Obamacare. Isn’t it odd that the same people who defend such deception of the American people act appalled when similar tactics are used against America’s enemies?

Kalifornia Kook

Do you read anything here or just post the same tired garbage over and over? Do you have any idea what Trump was referring to?
I know – it doesn’t matter to you. Take a sentence, endow a different context to it, and voila! you have a new scandal. Not legally actionable, but it is false.
Griff, when did you quit beating your wife? (or whatever it is you beat?)

Johann Wundersamer

“Griff on March 17, 2017 at 12:25 pm
“a “hoax” concocted by China to hurt U.S. industry”

A complete lie.

Let’s see anyone defend this nonsense… even skeptics here surely can’t advance evidence for that?”
__________________________________________

Griff, that isolated idiot, whom you’re asking.

And what for?

Hivemind

“A complete lie.”

Griff, you are confusing what Trump said, which what he meant.

Hivemind

“With what he meant” is what I meant to say.

Global warming is the greatest scientific fraud in all history. You only need to look at the gigantic falsification of data being conducted by NOAA, BOM, UK Met Office and others to see that it is a fraud and that the proponents know it is a fraud.

markl

+1 I hope the data corruption will be brought to light so the people will see what they’ve been subjected to.

Javert Chip

Griff

Ok, here’s the defense: under Paris accords, China has zero (null, zip, zilch), nada, bupkis) obligation to reduce CO2, supposedly the US does – the is a Chinese hoax designed to disadvantage USA industry.

Cyrus P. "Cy" Stell, PE, CEM, CBCP

Although I hate, under any circumstances, to appear to defend the Chump and his idiotic statements, I’ll have to, cuz the tape I saw it was clear he was joking about the Chinese “invented” global warming. Rather he as much as said, “I’m kidding, but they might as well have invented it, cuz we’re spending all the money and gutting our economy, and China is constantly stepping in to fill that void and make the sale we would/could/should have made if we hadn’t artificially jacked up our own costs.” (I paraphrased, nor can I remember what tape I saw, but he said the same thing in a multitude of interviews before the election, and has continued to say them after.)

TA

Trump said he was kidding about China perpetrating the CAGW hoax. Can’t you take a joke, Griff?

Mark from the Midwest

In related developments Ms. Merkel was seen, earlier today, laughing, smiling, and chatting amicably with Mr. Trump, she even did a bit of trash-talking to the press, assuring them that She and Trump were, indeed, talking to each other, not about each other.

Trebla

Dr. Angel Merkel, PhD Physical Chemist and former researcher talking to “The Donald”, or more precisely, listening to him bragging about how he’s going to reverse the “very unfair” trade policies of every other country on the planet while they all meekly accede to his demands.

Owen in GA

You mean the former Stasi informer Angela Merkel who is trying to DDR the west?

Individually most nations need the US more than the US needs them for trade. Trump knows this and wants to do one-on-one trade negotiations to decrease the US trade balance. He is not trying to rip anyone off – just balance things. Note that Canada does not feel threatened about NAFTA because our trade with the US is reasonably balanced. Fair play!

Javert Chip

Trebla

Yea; that Merkel and that “The Donald” (doing EXACTLY what he said he would do & what he was elected to do).

Elections have consequences.

TA

“Dr. Angel Merkel, PhD Physical Chemist and former researcher talking to “The Donald”, or more precisely, listening to him bragging about how he’s going to reverse the “very unfair” trade policies of every other country on the planet while they all meekly accede to his demands.”

And they are doing just that.

That’s what happens when the sheep get a new shepard/leader. Leaders become followers when a real leader shows up. And that’s as it should be. 🙂

Pamela Gray

Climate change is real. Unfortunately. The anthropogenic part not so much. We are riding the perfect weather peak of an interstadial. Maybe now we can fricken enjoy it in peace and quiet!

Kalifornia Kook

I kind of agree. Not so sure about the “Unfortunately”, except for how the Left uses a normal condition as something to try to scare us with. Warmer climes are much more productive than cool/cold climes. Canada has many wonderful resources, and landscapes that are hard to match, but few people live there. In fact many flee to Florida, Arizona, California during the winter. I rarely here of folks fleeing to Canada from the US during the summer, although I’m hoping Snowflakes will do that en masse this summer – and stray there! (With sympathies to my Canadian friends, )

Curious George

Fortunately. I don’t want a fossilized climate.

Javert Chip

Pamela

Agreed. I transplanted roses today (but then I live in Florida…).

With all the hundreds of billions spent on climate change, you’d think a simple thing like accurate recording of data would have been done a long time ago. Until the loons of CAGW solve this issue, it’s hard to take any of their RICO threats, broken models, “settled science”, or propaganda seriously. I do, however, that their fascist threats to curtail free speech and jail skeptics very seriously.

Louis

“we consider that to be a waste of (Americans’) money.”

Al Gore told us more than a decade ago that in 10 years it would be too late to stop global warming. Other true believers have also told us that warming is already built into the system and will spring out of its hiding place in the deep oceans to afflict us no matter what we do. Doesn’t that mean that spending huge sums to fight climate change is a waste of money? Wouldn’t it be better to save our money, in case we need to adapt to climate change in the future, instead of wasting it now on measures that both sides agree will not be productive?

Latitude

…..and the best we could ever hope for is 0.0000000001 degree….or something like that

Bruce Cobb

It was a joke, Griffie, although it had elements of truth. The Chinese certainly benefited by pretending to agree with the CAGW nonsense, since they could just continue doing what they’re doing, while we stupidly hit ourselves in the head with a two-by-four and dropped lead weights on our feet.

troe

Bingo. The Germans are right there with them. Remember when these same characters laughed at Reagan then panicked and told there people they needed to be more like the US. Real stuff that really happened.

troe

Griff you are starting to sound desperate.The scare is over relax a little. This crap about things slowing down or leveling out meaningless drivel. Guess the publicity department is switching you guys from worse than we thought to better than we thought. Global warming to climate change to climate stasis. We know your fear though…. no virgins get thrown into the volcano and life goes on. That already happened. Try to keep up.

After Andy Mays’ article, who in their right mind would want to continue this climate change madness.

troe

Welcome to the post modern presidency Griff. We don’t actually care about what he says because we are lost in bliss over what he is doing. Donald J Trump is giving us everything we ever dreamed of and more. It’s Nirvana for us and hell on earth for you. But we are hail fellows well met on this side… you can always join us.

Chris Hanley

OT, from Delingpole: “Climate Change Deniers Should Be Executed ‘Gently’ says Eric Idle …”.
http://media.breitbart.com/media/2017/03/Eric-Idle-640×480.png
He has turned into the sort of person he used to satirise.

Resourceguy

Yikes!

joelobryan

As bad a case of rachel mad-cow disease if I ever saw it.

Wrusssr

He appears to have been weened on dill pickles.

There is nothing like a good old head-lock and arm-twist to bring people to their senses.

Change of tune in next week’s G20 meeting on Climate Change, a Limerick.

G20 to meet in Black Forest

Sweet unity no longer chorused

The encouraging word

in the Paris accord

Mnuchin to farce metamorphosed. https://lenbilen.com/2017/03/11/change-of-tune-in-next-weeks-g20-meeting-on-climate-change-a-limerick/

old construction worker

“The G-20 Drops Climate Change From Communique” G-20 may drop term Climant

old construction worker

“The G-20 Drops Climate Change From Communique”: G-20 may drop term “Climate Change”. They will just call it something else.

ironicman

The communique will say that catastrophism is not on the agenda now that CO2 emissions have stabilised.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-03-18/iea-graph-of-global-carbon-emissions-since-1980/8366336

TA

When given lemons, make lemonaide, the CAGW promoters say. I think the tide is turning.

ironicman

…. and further to the communique they may say Gaia is working overtime and the greening of the planet is amazingly soaking up the extra CO2.

http://www.co2science.org/articles/V20/mar/a11.php

co2islife

NATO should demand it get fully funded before any more money is wasted on this Quixotic war on climate change.
Climate “Science” on Trial; Germany Builds Wind Farms While NATO Burns
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/03/17/climate-science-on-trial-germany-builds-wind-farms-while-nato-burns/

Latitude

exactly….anyone can play with windmills when they don’t pay their bills

and wasn’t Germany screaming the loudest about NATO

co2islife

Yep, glad you liked the irony…or hypocrisy…or both 🙂

2hotel9

Rats. Ship. Sinking.

Javert Chip

Popcorn. Popping.

clipe

There’s a bit of jiggery-pokery going on with Ontario’s IESO website.

Rather having the facts of capacity vs output on the homepage, you now have to tunnel down and then scroll down.

Smart Rock

OMG, they are being pressured by the government (“Independent” is just a name)

They are trying to tell me the price of electricity in Ontario at this moment is 1.44¢/kWh. Of course this is the price at the power station door, and it’s probably true on a weekend evening when our Ontario power supply is 95.5 percent nuclear plus hydro and 2.4% wind plus solar plus biomass.

But I’m paying (on average) 18¢/kWh in Toronto and 23¢/kWh in Longlac. I wonder where the rest goes?

The numbers are still there after you tunnel down (and it does take a while). They are telling.
Installed capacity: Nuclear 36% Gas/oil 28% Hydro 24% Wind 11%
2016 delivered power: Nuclear 61% Gas/oil 9% Hydro 24% Wind 6%

Thanks to Atomic Energy Canada for building us those nukes back when it was politically possible. They have saved us from going the way of South Australia.

But what is going to happen when those nukes finally reach retirement age?

Climate change to the activists mean global warming caused by humans. Dig deeper and ask how and it all comes together at carbon dioxide from burning fossil fuels. They have absolutely no science behind their assertion that carbon dioxide is the culprit. A simple fact is that carbon dioxide is traced in several geologic histories which all show total lack nof temperature change caused by carbon dioxide. Quite the contrary. If you look at carbon diopxide hiswtory since the Cambrian – the last 500 million years – it has never caused any warming whatsoever despite huge changes of its atmoswpheric concentration. For e4xample, its atmospheric concentration in theCambrian started out with 7000 ppm. It went down slowliy over millions of years and by Holocene it was 280 ppm. That is a factor of 25, not 2 that they are trying to use. There was absolotely no change of global temperature that could be ascribed to this huge change of atmospheric carnon dioxide. The only conclusion that makes sense is that carbon dioxide has never caused any global temperature rise, now or anytime in geologic history.

Ashok Patel

This blog is being distracted/hijacked by a troll who has been mentioned 48 times !
May be just ignore his comments.

Amen to that. I love the comment section when it adds thoughtful or funny insights and provides links to additional info. Not so much when it is everyone jumping on Graff, which comes of as self-congratulatory member bonding. I can understand it, to some extent, but it does get tedious. However, the comments always have numerous diamonds, so are worth sifting through. Griff is either very sincere and earnest, or simply loves attention it seems.

markl

Or an effective troll.

TA

“However, the comments always have numerous diamonds,”

I think that is what should be focused on. Griff just gives opportunities to discuss the subject. Griff doesn’t seem to mind the ridicule, at least not enough to discourage him from coming back. If Griff says something that doesn’t jive with reality, then people should reply and correct the record.

Johann Wundersamer
Johann Wundersamer

Contrasting Merkeliaism and the dumb

Schäuble black zero:

https://youtu.be/8Pa9x9fZBtY

Johann Wundersamer

And from dual education to

Jaques Offenbach: walk like an egyptian

https://youtu.be/Cv6tuzHUuuk

markl

“It dropped a reference to climate change, in the face of resistance from countries including the U.S., China, India and Saudi Arabia.” ( Bloomberg) China as well? Are we seeing the next major crack in support of the AGW narrative? It’s obvious that no one wants to be left holding the climate change bag if the world economy picks up…. and it will without the carbon yoke around its’ neck.