BOMBSHELL – NOAA whistleblower says Karl et al. "pausebuster" paper was hyped, broke procedures

They played fast and loose with the figures -NOAA whistleblower

The Mail on Sunday today reveals astonishing evidence that the organisation that is the world’s leading source of climate data rushed to publish a landmark paper that exaggerated global warming and was timed to influence the historic Paris Agreement on climate change.

A high-level whistleblower has told this newspaper that America’s National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) breached its own rules on scientific integrity when it published the sensational but flawed report, aimed at making the maximum possible impact on world leaders including Barack Obama and David Cameron at the UN climate conference in Paris in 2015.

The report claimed that the ‘pause’ or ‘slowdown’ in global warming in the period since 1998 – revealed by UN scientists in 2013 – never existed, and that world temperatures had been rising faster than scientists expected. Launched by NOAA with a public relations fanfare, it was splashed across the world’s media, and cited repeatedly by politicians and policy makers.

But the whistleblower, Dr John Bates, a top NOAA scientist with an impeccable reputation, has shown The Mail on Sunday irrefutable evidence that the paper was based on misleading, ‘unverified’ data.

It was never subjected to NOAA’s rigorous internal evaluation process – which Dr Bates devised.

His vehement objections to the publication of the faulty data were overridden by his NOAA superiors in what he describes as a ‘blatant attempt to intensify the impact’ of what became known as the Pausebuster paper.

His disclosures are likely to stiffen President Trump’s determination to enact his pledges to reverse his predecessor’s ‘green’ policies, and to withdraw from the Paris deal – so triggering an intense political row.

,,,

In an exclusive interview, Dr Bates accused the lead author of the paper, Thomas Karl, who was until last year director of the NOAA section that produces climate data – the National Centers for Environmental Information (NCEI) – of ‘insisting on decisions and scientific choices that maximised warming and minimised documentation… in an effort to discredit the notion of a global warming pause, rushed so that he could time publication to influence national and international deliberations on climate policy’.

Dr Bates was one of two Principal Scientists at NCEI, based in Asheville, North Carolina.

A blatant attempt to intensify paper’s impact 

Official delegations from America, Britain and the EU were strongly influenced by the flawed NOAA study as they hammered out the Paris Agreement – and committed advanced nations to sweeping reductions in their use of fossil fuel and to spending £80 billion every year on new, climate-related aid projects.

The scandal has disturbing echoes of the ‘Climategate’ affair which broke shortly before the UN climate summit in 2009, when the leak of thousands of emails between climate scientists suggested they had manipulated and hidden data. Some were British experts at the influential Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia.

Dr Bates retired from NOAA at the end of last year after a 40-year career in meteorology and climate science. As recently as 2014, the Obama administration awarded him a special gold medal for his work in setting new, supposedly binding standards ‘to produce and preserve climate data records’.

Yet when it came to the paper timed to influence the Paris conference, Dr Bates said, these standards were flagrantly ignored.

The paper was published in June 2015 by the journal Science. Entitled ‘Possible artifacts of data biases in the recent global surface warming

In the weeks after the Pausebuster paper was published, Dr Bates conducted a one-man investigation into this. His findings were extraordinary. Not only had Mr Karl and his colleagues failed to follow any of the formal procedures required to approve and archive their data, they had used a ‘highly experimental early run’ of a programme that tried to combine two previously separate sets of records.

karl-peterson

This had undergone the critical process known as ‘pairwise homogeneity adjustment’, a method of spotting ‘rogue’ readings from individual weather stations by comparing them with others nearby.

However, this process requires extensive, careful checking which was only just beginning, so that the data was not ready for operational use. Now, more than two years after the Pausebuster paper was submitted to Science, the new version of GHCN is still undergoing testing.

Moreover, the GHCN software was afflicted by serious bugs. They caused it to become so ‘unstable’ that every time the raw temperature readings were run through the computer, it gave different results. The new, bug-free version of GHCN has still not been approved and issued. It is, Dr Bates said, ‘significantly different’ from that used by Mr Karl and his co-authors.

Dr Bates revealed that the failure to archive and make available fully documented data not only violated NOAA rules, but also those set down by Science. Before he retired last year, he continued to raise the issue internally. Then came the final bombshell. Dr Bates said: ‘I learned that the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure.’

The reason for the failure is unknown, but it means the Pausebuster paper can never be replicated or verified by other scientists.

MoS2 Template Master
The misleading ‘pausebuster chart’: The red line shows the current NOAA world temperature graph – which relies on the ‘adjusted’ and unreliable sea data cited in the flawed ‘Pausebuster’ paper. The blue line is the UK Met Office’s independently tested and verified ‘HadCRUT4’ record – showing lower monthly readings and a shallower recent warming trend

He said he decided to speak out after seeing reports in papers including the Washington Post and Forbes magazine claiming that scientists feared the Trump administration would fail to maintain and preserve NOAA’s climate records.

Dr Bates said: ‘How ironic it is that there is now this idea that Trump is going to trash climate data, when key decisions were earlier taken by someone whose responsibility it was to maintain its integrity – and failed.’

NOAA not only failed, but it effectively mounted a cover-up when challenged over its data. After the paper was published, the US House of Representatives Science Committee launched an inquiry into its Pausebuster claims. NOAA refused to comply with subpoenas demanding internal emails from the committee chairman, the Texas Republican Lamar Smith, and falsely claimed that no one had raised concerns about the paper internally.

Last night Mr Smith thanked Dr Bates ‘for courageously stepping forward to tell the truth about NOAA’s senior officials playing fast and loose with the data in order to meet a politically predetermined conclusion’. He added: ‘The Karl study used flawed data, was rushed to publication in an effort to support the President’s climate change agenda, and ignored NOAA’s own standards for scientific study.’

Last night Mr Karl admitted the data had not been archived when the paper was published. Asked why he had not waited, he said: ‘John Bates is talking about a formal process that takes a long time.’ He denied he was rushing to get the paper out in time for Paris, saying: ‘There was no discussion about Paris.’

He also admitted that the final, approved and ‘operational’ edition of the GHCN land data would be ‘different’ from that used in the paper’.

 

Read the entire extraordinary expose by David Rose here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4192182/World-leaders-duped-manipulated-global-warming-data.html#ixzz4XlWgDL48

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Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 4:30 pm

Wonder if the WB would have come forward without a new sheriff in DC.

Eric H
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 4:56 pm

“No discussion about Paris…”
There should be an immediate request by the Trump admin for all Karl et al. email communications to be searched for the keyword “Paris”… before they have a chance to “crash” their computers.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Eric H
February 4, 2017 5:05 pm

Also, add the search term: “city which must not be named”

Reply to  Eric H
February 4, 2017 5:59 pm

Perhaps too late Eric H.

” ‘I learned that the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure.’”

It sounds like they’ve started Clintonizing any evidence.
It also sounds like the computer used to process the software is not a unique inviolable production machine, but a run-of-the-mill desktop on somebody’s desk.
No computer, no trial data, no code edits, no lists of input variables, no corrections or fudged records…
I do agree with your thinking though; that the real FBI should carry out all remaining computers and email servers for proper diagnosis.
Whistleblower evidence should suffice for obtaining the warrant.
The pictures above do make Karl look, well, sort of paleo anthopogenic; and Peterson does look like someone who uses other people’s hard work while publicly demeaning those people.

markl
Reply to  ATheoK
February 4, 2017 6:57 pm

And the software?

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Eric H
February 4, 2017 6:31 pm

ATheoK February 4, 2017 at 5:59 pm
Maybe not. It was their responsibility to preserve date. Any civil unrest and damages can be dump trucked at their door.
Ristvan! your take.
michael
if i spelled wrong sorry

Graham
Reply to  Eric H
February 4, 2017 6:59 pm

“No discussion about Paris…”
Yeah, right. Pull the other one.

Reply to  Eric H
February 4, 2017 7:11 pm

“Mike the Morlock February 4, 2017 at 6:31 pm

“ATheoK February 4, 2017 at 5:59 pm”

Maybe not. It was their responsibility to preserve date. Any civil unrest and damages can be dump trucked at their door.”

Bates’ mentions that nothing of the early runs, was saved.
Not the data, not the program, not the inputs, not the adjustments, not the metadata…
Karl’s current response requires the government or anybody must prove every accusation against him.
It is time to thoroughly depose all NOAA personnel and their equipment involved or related to temperatures or climate.

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Eric H
February 4, 2017 7:33 pm

ATheoK February 4, 2017 at 7:11 pm
All that you said to a point is true to a point. But civil damages due to irresponsible actions are another animal if the Gov. allows the suit..

Reply to  Eric H
February 4, 2017 8:25 pm

As a life long professional in field of “electronic data” in legal proceedings, may I suggest that the only bounding criteria be by date. Such dates to corresponded to those dates as those to which the responsive party had access. Though extending the possible responsive period to cover both a reasonable preceding and anteceding period to those described could prove useful.

RockyRoad
Reply to  Eric H
February 4, 2017 9:37 pm

They don’t need to write about Paris; it’s tattooed on their foreheads and consumes their brains.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Eric H
February 4, 2017 10:00 pm

“Bates’ mentions that nothing of the early runs, was saved.”
He doesn’t say that nothing was saved. He says that something wasn’t archived. That is a formal procedure, and he complains that it wasn’t done in time. He says at Climate Etc that he hasn’t been able to confirm that it has been archived, not that it wasn’t ever.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Eric H
February 4, 2017 11:39 pm

What they probably did was run the data using various statistical techniques, hunting for ones that would yield the “right” answer. Then they’d, naturally, dispose of all evidence of the other runs. “Paris” was not mentioned at all during all this. However, “We’re going to Tampa with the data” was on everyone’s mind.

Greg
Reply to  Eric H
February 5, 2017 12:51 am

The reason for the failure is unknown, but it means the Pausebuster paper can never be replicated or verified by other scientists.

Oh dear, sounds like UEA’s ” the dog ate my homework” excuse all over again.
what ever happened to Rep Lamar Smith’s subpoena ?

Nigel S
Reply to  Eric H
February 5, 2017 12:52 am

Have they looked in the ‘Censored’ folder? Or maybe the ‘Ilsa Rick’ folder?

Bill Marsh
Reply to  Eric H
February 5, 2017 4:43 am

I would like to understand the nature of this ‘complete failure’. Was it a hard drive crash? Where is this ‘computer’? The data on hard drives can be recovered without too much expense. Does that mean that there was only one version of the software and it only existed on one computer? I find that pretty hard to believe, having worked in software development and ITSEC in several government agencies including a scientific one (NSF). That one incident screams ‘cover up’ to me.

sciguy54
Reply to  Eric H
February 5, 2017 6:18 am

And look for UNFCCC or 21. If that was a direct quote it looks like someone was parsing words carefully.

emsnews
Reply to  Eric H
February 5, 2017 7:31 am

Remember Rosemary Woods? 🙂

AndyG55
Reply to  Eric H
February 5, 2017 9:56 pm

There were EIGHT writers.
Either they all have back-ups of code and data………… .or
They NEVER examined that code and data.
Think about that. !!!!

MarkW
Reply to  Eric H
February 6, 2017 8:32 am

Bill, I was taken aback by that statement as well. As someone who has worked with computers for over 30 years, I can attest that if the failure was on the mother board, then all hard disks still have their data, with the possible (and it is a small possibility) of the sector that was being written to at the instant the mother board went belly up.
If it was the disk that went bad, then most of the data on that disk is still recoverable.
This excuse makes no sense.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 5:26 pm

“You want to depose me, counsel for Karl, et al? Make — my — day.”
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/04/22/3CD7498B00000578-4192182-image-a-60_1486248052731.jpg
Science Realist Hero: John J. Bates
(much more edifying to look at than the above (in article) two scoundrels)

Latitude
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 5:26 pm

……….without a new sheriff in DC
Climate Fraud Whistleblower Rewards Program
The time has come for whistleblowers to come forward and expose climate fraud.
Guest post by Kent Clizbe. Government employees willing to tell the truth about climate can be handsomely rewarded.
https://realclimatescience.com/2016/09/climate-fraud-whistleblower-rewards-program/#more-14451

commieBob
Reply to  Latitude
February 4, 2017 7:43 pm

There is a bounty for all kinds of fraud perpetrated against the federal government. A whistle blower can get a portion of any funds recovered. Kent Clizbe is apparently a bounty hunter who, presumably for a fee, will assist people in getting such a reward. The alarmists seem to be accusing him of stalking Michael Mann.
Normally I provide links. In this case, something has set off the (admittedly paranoid) security features in my browser. I mistrust some of the sites I have visited and won’t link to them until I can confirm why the browser became unhappy. If you’re going to google Kent Clizbe, I would advise caution.

Latitude
Reply to  Latitude
February 5, 2017 6:17 am

They all spent years trying to explain the pause….
…then Karl comes along and says there is no pause
Irony:……..Karl just said that climate scientists don’t know what they are talking about

J Mac
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 6:26 pm

Exaggeration, malfeasance, and deceit in an NOAA ‘climate science’ publication?
I’m Shocked…. Shocked, I tell you! };>)
Drain The Swamp!

Reply to  J Mac
February 4, 2017 7:12 pm

I am beginning that parts of that particular swamp have any bottom.

Reply to  J Mac
February 4, 2017 11:41 pm

I doubt it too, Atheok.

Nigel S
Reply to  J Mac
February 5, 2017 1:19 am

Not until I’ve got my share of the winnings.

Crakar24
Reply to  J Mac
February 5, 2017 1:22 am

I hope its not like the one on oak island

michael of Oz
Reply to  J Mac
February 6, 2017 3:57 pm

swamps…all the way down to the swamp we crawled out of.

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 6:28 pm

Now that is the icing on the cake! Integrity and HOT!

Graham
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 7:04 pm

Fair point, but infinitely more important is that he did.

Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 7:19 pm

someone Quick!!!!
Get a bucket of ice water to throw on Janice before she melts!!

TG
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 7:20 pm
Janice Moore
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 7:39 pm

Mr. O’Bryan (smile). Unlike Pamela, I do not find Mr. Bates especially attractive. I ONLY POSTED THE PHOTO TO PUT THE HERO FRONT AND CENTER. He is not bad looking. He’s just not my type, I guess. Shrug.
(and I’m glad you gave me a chance to make that clear, Mr. O’Bryan — in case a certain someone happens to see that and also thinks as you did about why I posted the photo)

jones
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 8:06 pm

Yup and knowing that the new boss now has unfettered access to all data, reports, e-mails etc (on demand) has to be rather….focusing.
The old-guard must have worn out an awful lot of shredders between Nov 9th 2016 and midday Jan 20th 2017.
Would be a shame if some “denier” in the system kept any copies….

afonzarelli
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 10:28 pm

(looks like it’s pam who’s in need of a gator aid shower)…

Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 4, 2017 11:31 pm

The problem is that the entire MSM carried the news of the Pausebuster paper with great fanfare, and it already had its effect, as on the Paris Accord. Now this, I fear, will get virtually no mention by the MSM. Hopefully at least the conservative media and conservative blogosphere gives it good coverage.

Gerry, England
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 5, 2017 6:43 am

Same with everything. Big fanfare then small print to admit they were wrong. They don’t want to be seen as falling for these scams every time one comes along because they fail to check anything. Surely even a half competent journalist would see that taking readings from a modern state of the system like Argo and rounding them up to match a completely random set of readings from an uncontrolled fleet of ships is a bit suspect. The real story which they aren’t interested in is why this has happened.

Goldrider
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 5, 2017 7:02 am

File it under “Fake News.” Trust in the media is currently running at 6% among Republican voters–for good reason.

Steve T
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 6, 2017 6:19 am

Goldrider
February 5, 2017 at 7:02 am
File it under “Fake News.” Trust in the media is currently running at 6% among Republican voters–for good reason.

Are you sure? This seems a bit high to my BS detector! 🙂
SteveT

schitzree
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 8:35 am

Worn out shredders? Hell, it sounds like they even burned the original computer their program was run on, just in case.

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 9:46 am

Forrest Gardener on February 4, 2017 at 4:55 pm
Retirement can be a very liberating thing for those with a conscience.
Well, Forrest Gardener: to this statement I agree at 100 %.
But … after having had a short look at the graph belowcomment image
it was easy for me to reproduce it using data I regularly download from
NOAA: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/cag/time-series/global/globe/land_ocean/p12/12/1880-2016.csv
and
HadCRUT: http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcrut4/data/current/time_series/HadCRUT.4.5.0.0.monthly_ns_avg.txt
Forrest, this graph published by Dr Bates is incorrect (in fact, flawed would be the more correct term, as he made himself use of it).
Why?
Simply because it gives you the impression that the two plots in the graph are deltas relative to a common base of 14 °C, and thus are comparable absolute values. But they aren’t at all.
Here is the reproduction of the two time series using Excel:
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170205/dnpyt2dy.jpg
Both plots, the red one for NOAA and the blue one for HadCRUT, do not represent absolute values but anomalies with respect to these institutions‘ own baseline period (called climatology)
– NOAA: 1901 – 2000
– HadCRUT: 1961 – 1990
To make things even more understandible, I added in thin white a plot of satellite data based of course on anomalies wrt to their own baseline period:
– UAH6.0: 1981 – 2010
Following Dr Bates opinion concerning NOAA vs. HadCRUT, everybody would say: „Wow! Look at these flawed surface datasets! Incredible!“ because they seem to show, over the same period, by far higher temperatures than does the satellite record.
Now look at the following graph, in which all plots represent temperature anomalies wrt the same baseline period (the one chosen by UAH):
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170205/xayva229.jpg
Not only you can see that the NOAA data does not contain anything flawed compared with HadCRUT!
You also see that though the satellite record undoubtedly shows lower trends, it is far nearer to surface records than many pretend.
NOAA shows, for 1997-2016, a higher linear trend than that of HadCRUT:
– NOAA: 0.161 ± 0.014 °C / decade;
– HadCRUT: 0.133 ± 0.015 °C / decade.
But this is, as can be seen on the graph, due to HadCRUT being both warmer than NOAA between 1997 and 2008 and cooler between 2008 and 2016.
A last detail: look at the graph below showing the (correctly computed) plots, for again NOAA vs. HadCRUT, but this time during the period 1880 – 2016:
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170205/d38fgq85.jpg
Tle linear trends for this longer period:
– NOAA: 0.069 ± 0.001 °C / decade;
– HadCRUT: 0.066 ± 0.001 °C / decade.
So i’m sorry, Forrest: the truth imho does not seem to be on the side of Dr Bates, regardless wether his ill-made comparison of NOAA with HadCRUT was due to incompetence, inadvertance or intention.

John@EF
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 11:15 am

Good catch,Bindidon. The graph is completely dishonest and misleading. Comparisons using a common baseline is so incredibly elementary … although some here have always had difficulty regarding baselines.

John@EF
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 11:26 am

@Forrest Gardener
The graph is included to show a level of alleged nefarious adjustment that does not exist. The graph is dishonest, period. Own it.
There are other threads here with discussions suggesting that the findings in Karl, et al, are proving consistent relative to new independent research. Please do dodge that, too.

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 2:01 pm

John@EF on February 5, 2017 at 11:15 am / February 5, 2017 at 11:26 am
1. The graph is completely dishonest and misleading. Comparisons using a common baseline is so incredibly elementary
John@EF, you simply pretend things without presenting any scientific falsification of what I wrote: that is the signature of what I use to name “unsound skepticism”.
If, according to your reply, „Comparisons using a common baseline is so incredibly elementary“, where then is the problem?
2. The graph is included to show a level of alleged nefarious adjustment that does not exist.
Here too: no valuable falsification. “Nefarious”, hmmh?
What did you really mean, John@EF? What about data, arguments?

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 2:16 pm

Forrest Gardener on February 5, 2017 at 10:37 am
… irrelevant to any point under discussion
See below.
Some things never change do they?
What isn’t changing, dear Forrwest Gardener, is your attitude which consists in concentrating the discussion on unprovable political blah blah in order to avoid any discussion at scientific level.
WUWT is a science site, Forrest. Even if you rather view it, like do so many, as a political instrument. I can live with that, even far better as does for example Nick!

Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 2:35 pm

Bindidon,
I agree that one need to compare apples to apples, thus one need to show the data relative to the same baseline.
The focus should be on the last period where the paper of Karl e.a. is relevant: the period just before the 2015/16 super El Niño. That is where the “adjustment” of Karl had the largest influence.
HadCRU4 made a similar “correction” as NOAA for that period: the difference between HadCRU3 vs. HadCRU4 is 0.1°C for the period 1997-2015, mainly in the last part with no trend at all in that period for HadCRU3 and both satellite data, while NOAA/GISS has the steepest trend now…

Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 2:45 pm

Bindidon — the graph in question is in the Mail news article, but I don’t see where it says that this graph originated with Dr. Bates. It may have been tacked on by the journalist.

Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 2:48 pm

HadCrut is junk anyway. (Each time I see HadCrut referenced I have to think of the infamous harry.readme file. How anyone can take any data from that institution seriously I cannot fathom.) Showing that something resembles HadCrut just proves that it is junk, also.

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 4:10 pm

Ferdinand Engelbeen on February 5, 2017 at 2:35 pm
Thany you and dank u wel Ferdinand for your reply. I remember your GHG guest posts here years ago, I learned lots of that.
I nevertheless have a double problem concerning the reply.
1. On the one hand, you correctly write about Had3 >< Had4
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170206/6yrq57w3.png
but to be honest I don't understand the background of this quasi-eternal discussion about well-known facts.
I remember to have read somewhere:

HadCRUT4 … includes an increased number of land stations, as well as more up-to-date records available from land stations that were already in HadCRUT3. These updates to the land station database are described in the CRUTEM4 paper. HadCRUT4 also includes a larger number of sea-surface temperature records and new bias adjustments for sea surface temperature measurements. These bias adjustments for sea-surface temperature records are discussed in detail in part 2 of the HadSST3 paper.

(See: Hemispheric and large-scale land surface air temperature variations: An extensive revision and an update to 2010).
2. What now concerns “… while NOAA/GISS has the steepest trend now…”, I do not quite understand what you mean when I look at the graph below:
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170206/aiehv9bi.jpg
That satellite readings in the (no longer so very) lower troposphere are below those of surfaces (and below those of nearly all IGRA radiosondes operating at the same hPa level): isn’t that evident?
Only JMA shows lower trends than all other surface records. And that might well be due to their really poor coverage in the warming Arctic, isn’t it?
But maybe I misunderstood your remark.

clipe
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 5:30 pm

“Forrest, this graph published by Dr Bates is….blah, blah, blah.
Bindi, the graph is not from Dr.Bates. It’s from The Daily Mail.
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/04/23/3CD7C57C00000578-4192182-image-a-90_1486249374130.jpg

John@EF
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 7:48 pm

@ Bindidon February 5, 2017 at 2:01 pm
Bindidon. Hahahaaa. What the hell? I’m agreeing with your point. I started my comment with ” Good catch, Bindidon.”, meaning good observation on your part. I take it English isn’t your first language. Didn’t you notice that those on the other side of the argument were attempting to give me grief?

John@EF
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 8:02 pm

@ Forrest Gardener February 5, 2017 at 7:51 pm,
There is no excuse for the the graph used prominently by Anthony in the lead post – None. He should delete it with an accompanying explanation.

John@EF
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 8:19 pm

Well, Forrest, I only take advice about science from those who have an inkling of what it means. Thanks, anyway.

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 11:46 pm

Another hyjack of a thread without any contribution https://www.google.at/search?q=b+in+didon&oq=b+in+didon&aqs=chrome

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 12:19 am

John@EF
Sorry John, I thoroughly misunderstood your reply 🙁
Please simply ignore what I wrote. Bare nonsense!

Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 6:17 am

Bindidon,
The further you go in the past, the more uncertain the data are. Overall one can say that 1910-1945 and 1976-1998 were fast warming, 1946-1975 shows a small cooling and after 2000 there is the “pause”.
That was visible in all datasets, until the Karl e.a. paper, where suddenly incomparable sea surface data were incorporated in the trends by NOAA and GISS. HadCRU did follow at a somewhat lesser pace, as you can see: not only new stations, but also “corrected” sea surface data. The latter are mainly from the Southern Ocean, where ships lanes and thus data are sparse.
The sea surface (*) data are from sea ships (air and water, mostly motor inlet), buoys and “in filled” from satellite surface data with a model. That is the exact moment that the trends between surface data and satellite data start to differ…
The net result is that both surface data show a trend 1997-2015, while the satellite data don’t. That is opposite to what the greenhouse gas theory – and the climate models – expect: the increase mainly in the tropical higher troposphere should be faster (the “tropical hot spot”) than the near-ground temperature increase.
As the Karl e.a. paper was clearly meant to give a boost to the Paris agreement, it is quite relevant that they overruled all scientific principles of peer review, transparency and reproducibility…
(*) measurements are very divergent: seawater measured from the surface in wood buckets, canvas, metal, later motor inlet (meters deeper), air temperature vs. water temperature,… Satellites measure the “skin” temperature, that is a fraction of a mm of the water surface: several degrees warmer in the sun. equal when cloudy, cooler at night,… The difference with the rest of the water mass also depends of mixing speed (wind and waves)… Karl e.a. shuffled them all on one heap…

TA
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 6:40 am

Bindidon wrote: “You also see that though the satellite record undoubtedly shows lower trends, it is far nearer to surface records than many pretend.”
Ferdinand Engelbeen wrote: “HadCRU4 made a similar “correction” as NOAA for that period: the difference between HadCRU3 vs. HadCRU4 is 0.1°C for the period 1997-2015, mainly in the last part with no trend at all in that period for HadCRU3 and both satellite data, while NOAA/GISS has the steepest trend now…”
Two good reasons for using the satellite charts as official, and tossing the most recent surface temperature charts.

Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 8:24 am

Regarding the graph comparing GISS with HadCRUT4 and offsets: I used WFT to offset GISS downward by the difference between GISS’s 1961-1990 average and HadCRUT4’s 1961-1990 average. Also, I did a bit of smoothing. It is obvious that from 1997 onward, GISS warmed about .1 degree more than HadCRUT4 did and more steadily than HadCRUT4 did. Have a look at:
http://woodfortrees.org/graph/gistemp/mean:7/from:1997/offset:-0.1/plot/hadcrut4gl/mean:7/from:1997.png
The linear trends: For HadCRUT4 it is about .135 degree/decade, and for GISS it is about .168 degree/decade.
For a bigger picture, this time from 1950 onward, again with GISS offset so that its average during the HadCRUT4 baseline period of 1961-1990 is the same as that of HadCRUT4:
http://woodfortrees.org/graph/gistemp/mean:7/from:1961/offset:-0.1/plot/hadcrut4gl/mean:7/from:1961.png
Meanwhile, this is HadCRUT4.5. HadCRUT4 has had its adjustments since HadCRUT4.2, showing recent years being slightly warmer than it used to. At least HadCRUT4’s changes are small compared to those of GISS changing from using ERSSTv3b to ERSSTv4.

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 12:49 pm

Ferdinand Engelbeen on February 6, 2017 at 6:17 am
Mijnheer Engelbeen, you were years ago a convincing teacher. Today, you unfortunately simply ruminate, like so many others, the pausebuster story, without any really scientific arguments.
Sorry, but it gets a bit boring.

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 2:07 pm

Donald L. Klipstein on February 6, 2017 at 8:24 am
Regarding the graph comparing GISS with HadCRUT4 and offsets: I used WFT to offset…
At least did you use a correct offset… and thus I do no wonder that you obtain the same plots as those you see in my comment’s graph.
My question is: why should GISS do the same job as does HadCRUT?
Anyway, a few years ago, lots of people complained about huge differences between GISS and HadCRUT(3) for the period 1979-2012.
Today, GISS’ trend for 1979-2016 is 0.174 °C / decade, and HadCRUT(4.x) shows inbetween 0.172.
And – oh wonder – suddenly all these people have left this once soo pretty good satellite era, and now replaced it by the more interesting period 1997-2016!
Simply because while GISS shows there 0.175 °C / decade, HadCRUT offers them a convenient 0.133.
What will they do in five years, when Hadley comes out with a new HadSST4, and CRU does with a TEM5 fully integrating some brand-new infilling techniques?
My answer, Donald L. Klipstein: they’ll all switch to JMA.
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170206/vehtuldt.jpg
1979-2016: 0.140 °C / decade; 1997-2016: 0.129… Woaaah, cool!
But one day, somebody at Tokyo’s Climate center will go retired, and…

Ross King
Reply to  Bindidon
February 6, 2017 3:41 pm

in response to *Griff*:
Outside of the skeptic blogosphere, no on has heard of ‘Climategate’. That was also a non-story.
Don’t be too hard on this Fool. He’s *great* entertainment, and seems to keep everyone busy taking him seriously! Treat him for laughs and nothing more. He is otherwise a waste of cyber-space.
Hmmm …. on reflection, perhaps he does have *some* utility …. if Griff is typical of the Alarmists’ mind-set, his asinine pronouncements serve to PROVE the hypothesis that the GW crowd are no better. Keep at it Griff … you’re proving valuable points, asinine pronouncement by asinine pronouncement.
Ross King, MBA, P.Eng. (ret’d) 1453 Beddis Road, SaltSpring Island, B.C., V8K2E2, Canada (250) 537-0666
“The older I get, the better I was….”
On 6 February 2017 at 15:26, Watts Up With That? wrote:
> Bindidon commented: “Donald L. Klipstein on February 6, 2017 at 8:24 am > Regarding the graph comparing GISS with HadCRUT4 and offsets: I used WFT to > offset… At least did you use a correct offset… and thus I do no wonder > that you obtain the same plots as those you se” >

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 2:23 pm

TA on February 6, 2017 at 6:40 am
Two good reasons for using the satellite charts as official, and tossing the most recent surface temperature charts.
Beware of the bear TA!
Don’t forget july 2011, as Roy Spencer suddenly told us, without any warning, that RSS’ data definitely went too cold, and introduced UAH5.6 showing quite a lot of warming on Earth in comparison to the concurrence.
It took him four years to drive back from what he today probably will consider a blind-alley. But he is always good for some new surprise. He is so terribly incorruptible…

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 3:35 pm

clipe on February 5, 2017 at 5:30 pm
Thanks clipe – my bad!

1sky1
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 4:12 pm

Bindidon does make a valid point about the necessity of using a common datum level in comparing time-series. But he misses the most crucial consideration of data validity wrt to the desired measurements! With the same data base of UHI-corrupted station records and scattered one-off observations of SST by ships of opportunity blindly incorporated into both NOAA and HADCRUT global indices, we get only comparisons of rotten hybrid fruit from the same bushel, rather than of independent baskets of apples. The fact that neither index shows any hint of a global mutidecadal mininum in 1976 is ample evidence of a data base unfit for climatic purposes.

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 5:08 pm

1sky1 on February 6, 2017 at 4:12 pm
With the same data base of UHI-corrupted station records…
Did you ever generate data and graphics out of the GHCN datasets? I think you did never, 1sky1.
Because if you ever had, you would have had, like me, the simple idea of separating the dataset, for the Globe or for one of its regions or latitude zones, into what was produced by
– rural stations with minimal nightlight
and what was produced by
– the rest.
Using a UNIX editor or any tool supporting regular expressions you obtain such a separation in a few seconds…
As a vast majority of the claims about UHI concerns CONUS, I show you the separation’s results below.
1. CONUS 1880-2016
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170119/dwkkaukn.jpg
2. CONUS 1979-2016
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170207/f97lkml9.jpg
where in addition to the GHCN separation you see UAH6.0’s regional CONUS data (btw, what an amazing fit).
This, 1sky1, is exactly what Steve Mosher tell us since years: UHI is a non-problem.
I didn’t analyse any SST datasets up to now, but I wouldn’t wonder if I could manage to refute your claims there as well.

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 5:34 pm

1sky1 on February 6, 2017 at 4:12 pm
The fact that neither index shows any hint of a global mutidecadal mininum in 1976 is ample evidence of a data base unfit for climatic purposes.
Well, 1sky1: as an European, I think that the most influent multidecadal oscillation here is the AMO, and that therefore CET, the Central England Temperature record, should keep track of such a minimum around 1976, as AMO has some high influence on climate in England.
But…
http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/hadobs/hadcet/ssn_HadCET_mean_sort.txt
doesn’t tell us anything about that.

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 7, 2017 1:38 am

1sky1 on February 6, 2017 at 4:12 pm
I replied with two comments (concerning UHI and this “1976 minimum claim) but unfortunately both did not appear.
[wrong again -mod]

tony mcleod
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 7, 2017 3:30 am

One can think of 4 plausible reasons for Rose’s error. He was either …
1) too lazy to check
2) unable to comprehend that the choice of baseline makes precisely no difference to the trend line
3) deliberately attempting to mislead his readership
4) He got the graph from the GWPF, so in that case it’s undoubtedly 3).

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 7, 2017 5:57 am

Bindidon on February 7, 2017 at 1:38 am
[wrong again -mod]
For the moderation: I’m sorry, but at 1:38 am (10:38 MET) the comments really weren’t visible yet.
But it isn’t so important after all, though discussing with 1sky1 is always interesting, far more than with those who feel the need, good grief, to name me a troll 🙂

1sky1
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 7, 2017 1:56 pm

Did you ever generate data and graphics out of the GHCN datasets? I think you did never, 1sky1.
Did you ever stop presuming that everyone else is as much a climatological novice as you are, Bindindon? FYI, in my work supporting major engineering projects I was generating and analyzing regional data sets throughout the globe long before the advent of GHCN. And I was comparing various urban station records with proprietary measurements made professionally at various pristine sites prior to project development.
You bring nothing new to the table besides misconceptions.

1sky1
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 7, 2017 1:59 pm

Oops, this blockquote failed to show up in my last comment:

Did you ever generate data and graphics out of the GHCN datasets? I think you did never, 1sky1.

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 7, 2017 2:40 pm

[snip]

Bindidon
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 7, 2017 3:06 pm

Forrest Gardener on February 7, 2017 at 12:34 pm
Bindi, the fastest way to stop being labelled a troll is to stop being a troll.
Thanks for stalking me all the time. Maybe one day you manage to stop your scienceless comments as far as I’m concerned.
I on my side apologise for having myself initiated that by replying to one of your comments. Won’t happen again!
In Germany, forrest trolls are called “Waldschrat”. That word is so pretty beautiful, smacks so pretty bang in the middle, is so hard to exactly translate (‘hobgoblin’ doesn’t match at all) that it in fact should be integrated into the english language, like are kindergarten or leitmotiv.
[“Maybe one day you manage to stop your scienceless comments” …. and perhaps one day you’ll learn to get along with people here -mod]

PaulH
February 4, 2017 4:35 pm

Is there *any* reliable climate data anywhere?
SMH

george e. smith
Reply to  PaulH
February 4, 2017 6:57 pm

Not surface based.
Aliassed all the way up to the cloud !
g

Reply to  george e. smith
February 4, 2017 8:14 pm

and models all the way down

MarkW
Reply to  PaulH
February 6, 2017 8:40 am

Even the raw ground based data isn’t “reliable”.
All the problems with both macro and micro site contamination as has been documented by our host make even accurately recorded data highly questionable.
Then there are the problems with undocumented equipment changes and site moves.
Finally site maintenance is questionable for most stations.
(One of the things that started Anthony on this quest was an experiment he ran years ago, where he tested the difference between whitewash and modern latex paints. Stations used to be painted with whitewash (calcium carbonate based???) and over time this was switched to latex based paints.
Anthony’s experiment showed that white wash was a better reflector of IR than latex paints. As a result stations painted with latex were warmer by a few tenths of a degree. The station records would usually indicate when they were repainted, but none of them indicated when they switched over from white wash to latex.)

Reply to  PaulH
February 6, 2017 11:14 am

Nobody knows. After the IPCC adjusted the original data, they threw the original away. There is no way of knowing what they did. They can’t provide the original data either.

markl
Reply to  rishrac
February 6, 2017 12:00 pm

I’m betting there are duplicate sets all over the world that people have been using and I highly doubt it can’t be corrected. Simply match two sets for verification and restore.

Reply to  markl
February 6, 2017 12:14 pm

There probably are. They haven’t been collected in one place. The bigger problem will be verification, the originals are rotting in a landfill in Denmark. Because of their belief system ” they just know it’s co2″ they have done the world and science a great disservice. We’ve spent the last 20 + years on co2 and no closer to understanding why it gets colder or warmer. There are a lot of good ideas, however.

Jared
February 4, 2017 4:37 pm

Climate Science is not Science, it needs a name change to Climate Disgrace. These guys give Science a bad name.

Reply to  Jared
February 4, 2017 4:49 pm

Jared @ 4:37
I totally agree. The sad thing is that it’s going to take real science decades to recover from the climate scandal. In the meantime many aspiring scientists will have decided to be accountants/lawyers/chiefs, etc instead. We have plenty of them and not enough young scientists.

noaaprogrammer
Reply to  Alastair Brickell
February 4, 2017 5:41 pm

Can you imagine accountants and lawyers politicizing their areas – oh, wait, never mind.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  Alastair Brickell
February 4, 2017 7:11 pm

Accountants or even lawyers who behave like climate change™ practitioners would normally end up behind bars.

Nigel S
Reply to  Alastair Brickell
February 5, 2017 1:22 am
D.I.
Reply to  Jared
February 4, 2017 4:57 pm

Climate ‘Seance’ would be a better name,sitting around a table calling the Spirits for direction.

Pamela Gray
Reply to  D.I.
February 5, 2017 5:40 am

My new favorite phrase!

MarkW
Reply to  D.I.
February 6, 2017 8:41 am

I’ve been pursuing spirits, but not for direction.

Reply to  D.I.
February 6, 2017 11:17 am

If they had done a Seance, they would have gotten something right. It would have been an improvement.

Reply to  Jared
February 4, 2017 6:00 pm

Jared:
Excellent summation.

Huhne
Reply to  Jared
February 4, 2017 11:39 pm

Climate+Science ~ Witch+Doctor

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Huhne
February 4, 2017 11:56 pm

Or, as they say in symbolic logic, Climate Science : Science = Witch Doctor : Doctor

John Harmsworth
Reply to  Huhne
February 5, 2017 11:15 am

Giviing witch doctors a bad name!

Goldrider
Reply to  Jared
February 5, 2017 7:02 am

“Lysenkoism” works for me.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Goldrider
February 6, 2017 10:30 am

Trofim Karl

J Mac
Reply to  Jared
February 6, 2017 6:23 am

Climate Malfescience

NW sage
February 4, 2017 4:42 pm

Dr Bates revelation is an AWESOME reveal. The integrity of the scientific process when run by the government is forever tainted. Thorough, careful and complete are words that will never be associated with government science again. WOW!

pameladragon
Reply to  NW sage
February 4, 2017 5:45 pm

“Government science” has been shown to be an oxymoron. But we all sort of knew that all along, didn’t we?
PMK

Dav09
Reply to  pameladragon
February 4, 2017 8:13 pm

If by “we” you mean many – but by no means all – of the folks around here in the ‘granting for sake of argument that it actually exists, AGW is still highly exaggerated and nothing to worry about’ camp, you could be right. Apart from them – even considering only those who know what “oxymoron” means – I’m afraid you’re way too optimistic.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  pameladragon
February 4, 2017 11:57 pm

Eisenhower had it right.

TA
Reply to  pameladragon
February 5, 2017 7:17 am

“Eisenhower had it right.”
Yes, he did.

GW
Reply to  NW sage
February 4, 2017 6:16 pm

That’s why President Reagan tapped outsider Dr. Richard Feynman to investigate the Challenger disaster. Reagan KNEW NASA would cover up the truth, which wasn’t that the O-Rings had a problem, but that the political environment within NASA was such that they gambled with the knowledge in order to attempt the virtually closed launch window, despite the adverse temperature conditions.

Dan Sage
Reply to  GW
February 7, 2017 4:46 pm

It has always been my suspicion that someone in the Reagan Whitehouse put pressure on NASA to launch, because they had a telephone call to the first teacher in space planned for the State of the Union Address that night. Just something to think about.

John Harmsworth
Reply to  NW sage
February 5, 2017 7:37 pm

This load of bollocks goes beyond bad science. This is fraud, sponsored and sanctioned by the executive branch.

charles nelson
February 4, 2017 4:43 pm

I’m shocked. And stunned. Shocked and stunned.
(not really!)

Reply to  charles nelson
February 4, 2017 6:14 pm

Yes, I think most people here knew all along that this deceit was going on.
To summarize…
“breached its own rules on scientific integrity”
“based on misleading, ‘unverified’ data”
“never subjected to NOAA’s rigorous internal evaluation process”
“maximised warming”
“minimised documentation”
“standards were flagrantly ignored”
“tried to combine two previously separate sets of records”
“violated NOAA rules”
“computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure”
“NOAA not only failed, but it effectively mounted a cover-up”
“rushed to publication in an effort to support the President’s climate change agenda”
Hopefully this time there will be consequences for this type of scientific malfeasance and criminal activity (e.g. unauthorized destruction of government property).
Now for a second thing that I also expect…Queue the trolls and all their arguments about why none of this matters, pointing at ice, pointing at other manipulated data as proof, blah, blah, blah.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Boulder Skeptic
February 4, 2017 6:58 pm

EXCELLENT summary, Boulder. T. McL. below should read it (much better than mine, though mine might be more his speed….. heh)!

Reply to  Boulder Skeptic
February 4, 2017 8:40 pm

Also Implicit in those statements are misdeeds at Science Magazine by the editorial staff.

Phil R
Reply to  Boulder Skeptic
February 4, 2017 8:52 pm

excellent, concise summary, but seems to be missing one important one (or extension of complete computer failure):
“The Pausebuster paper can never be replicated or verified by other scientists.”

afonzarelli
Reply to  Boulder Skeptic
February 4, 2017 10:42 pm

“…pointing at ice…”
Which will only serve to remind us that Karl is just the “tip of the iceberg”…

Nylo
Reply to  Boulder Skeptic
February 5, 2017 12:11 am

+1!

Reply to  Boulder Skeptic
February 5, 2017 8:04 am

They are out in force at Climate Etc, where Dr. Bates published his full expose first person.

Reply to  charles nelson
February 4, 2017 8:41 pm

Also Implicit in those statements are misdeeds at Science Magazine by the editorial staff.

co2islife
February 4, 2017 4:44 pm

It’s about time. I knew sooner or later someone was going to develop a conscious.
Climate “Science” on Trial; The Consensus is more Con and NonSense than Science
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/01/29/climate-science-on-trial-the-consensus-is-more-con-and-nonsense-than-science/
Climate Bullies Gone Wild; Caught on Tape and Print
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/01/22/climate-bullies-gone-wild-caught-on-tape-and-print/
Climate “Science” on Trial; The Smoking Gun Files
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/01/17/climate-science-on-trial-the-smoking-gun-files/
Climate “Science” on Trial; Data Chiropractioners “Adjust” Data
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/01/29/climate-science-on-trial-data-chiropractioners-manipulate-data/

Reply to  co2islife
February 5, 2017 2:16 am

Great links!
As far as the so called “consensus,” it’s a consensus of ideology, not of science.
Climate “science” = leftists run amok:
“[Climate action] is a campaign not for abundance but for austerity. Strangest of all, it is a campaign not just against other people, but against ourselves.” -George Monbiot, UK Ecojournalist
“Every time someone dies as a result of floods in Bangladesh, an airline executive should be dragged out of his office and drowned.” -George Monbiot

co2islife
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 5, 2017 4:56 am

Thanks a million for the comment. Your comment “consensus of ideology, not of science” is the best way I’ve seen it described. Thanks for that comment from Monbiot, I’m sure that will be worked into an article some time in the future. Once again, thanks a million for the comment.

MarkW
Reply to  co2islife
February 6, 2017 8:44 am

Or come close enough to retirement to allow their conscience to escape from the closet where it had been locked up.

Reply to  MarkW
February 6, 2017 8:46 am

Yep, that however was a rather recent event, and the Obama administration should have crucified him for speaking out. By bet however is that this is just the tip of the iceberg.

February 4, 2017 4:44 pm

Kudos to Dr. John Bates. I respect his integrity. Bravo Dr. John!

polski
Reply to  Allan M.R. MacRae
February 4, 2017 5:27 pm

After 40 years of service what else does Dr. John Bates know? Now that he is retired does he have some memoirs to publish that we may enjoy!

RockyRoad
Reply to  polski
February 4, 2017 9:40 pm

….he should screen his visitors very carefully.

Jonas N
Reply to  Allan M.R. MacRae
February 5, 2017 1:17 am

I wonder if he had stepped forward under a different election outcome?

Krudd Gillard of the Commondebt of Australia
Reply to  Allan M.R. MacRae
February 6, 2017 2:36 am

And bravo, US President Trump for creating a climate in which people can come forward with the truth.

February 4, 2017 4:45 pm

It’s worse than we thought (climate ‘science’, that is).

Reply to  John in Oz
February 5, 2017 3:20 am

Actually, it is EXACTLY as we thought.
Source: Tony Heller
https://realclimatescience.com/all-temperature-adjustments-monotonically-increase/comment image

TA
Reply to  Allan M.R. MacRae
February 5, 2017 7:27 am

That GIF is the perfect illustration of just how dishonest the surface temperature adjusters have been.
They took the surface temperature chart from “nothing to see here” to “hottest year evah!” with their false manipulations and have caused a lot of hardship on the people of the world as a result of this fabrication and false reality they have created. They have fooled a lot of people, caused a lot of money to be wasted, and it will take many years to repair the damage they have done in so many areas. The manipulators deserve to be punished for what they have done.

Reply to  Allan M.R. MacRae
February 5, 2017 1:48 pm

Allen, if possible, could you slow down the shifts? They change a bit to fast for me to follow.
Or, maybe, leave the “shifts”image as it is but in addition include each as a static graph?

Plato
February 4, 2017 4:46 pm

Like a train wreck in slow motion, the madness slowly unravels….

Jack DuBrul
February 4, 2017 4:47 pm

Can I trademark the term lientist?

Roger Knights
Reply to  Jack DuBrul
February 4, 2017 4:58 pm

Good. I like my coinage, “climbatologist”, for all the careerists in the field.

Reply to  Jack DuBrul
February 4, 2017 5:35 pm

LIEntist is great!!
Because, with rare exception, the modern day AGW fear-mongers (as advocates for activists, not true scientists) have all been following the guidance of their early leaders:
“It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.” -Paul Watson, Co-Founder of Greenpeace
“We have to offer up scary scenarios… each of us has to decide the right balance between being effective [dishonest] and being honest [ineffective].” -Stephen Schneider, lead IPCC author, 1989
“Unless we announce disasters no one will listen.” -Sir John Houghton, first ipcc chair
All their lying is done for their leftist cause:
“Isn’t the only hope for the planet that the industrialized civilizations collapse. Isn’t it our responsibility to bring that about?” -ex UNEP Director Maurice Strong [pioneer of the AGW scare]
“We’ve got to ride the global warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing.” -leftist Senator Tim Wirth, 1993

Janice Moore
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 4, 2017 6:59 pm

+1

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 5, 2017 6:20 am

Collapse of industrial civilization means death for around six billion people.

TA
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 5, 2017 7:36 am

““It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.” -Paul Watson, Co-Founder of Greenpeace”
That’s why the Main Stream Media is so dangerous to our free society. Like it or not, the MSM sets the daily narrative, which gives them enormous power and makes them particularly dangerous to freedom when they lie their asses off for partisan political purposes, like they are doing now.
The good news is many more people are getting wise to the lies, but still not enough to quell the insanity on the Left. But it’s early yet. 🙂

D. Carroll
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 5, 2017 9:30 am

I’ve seen some of the statements before, but haven’t been able verify their authenticity? any links?

Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 5, 2017 1:22 pm

D. Carroll “any links” Just google fragments from the quotes and it will lead you to links.
The Schneider quote is the most damning to the chicken littles:

“We have to offer up scary scenarios… each of us has to decide the right balance between being effective [dishonest] and being honest [ineffective].” -Stephen Schneider, lead IPCC author, 1989, http://www.azquotes.com/author/21358-Stephen_Schneider

Sometimes the scare-mongering leftists try to obfuscate by saying the larger context exonerates Schneider. BUT the larger context does nothing of the sort:
“On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method. On the other hand, we are not just scientists but human beings as well. To do that we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, means getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.” -Stephen Schneider, 1989
I shortened his full-quote to make it a quick read. But in no way does the larger context above change Schneider’s meaning that they should make up stuff (lie) for the purposes of gaining public support (for their cause).

Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 5, 2017 1:41 pm

TA February 5, 2017 at 7:36 am
““It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true.” -Paul Watson, Co-Founder of Greenpeace”
That’s why the Main Stream Media is so dangerous to our free society.

When “Freedom of the Press” was written into the First Amendment, the “press”, the source of “News” was not controlled by a few or a few broadcasting corporations.
(Which of them would have aired Thomas Paine’s “Common Sense”?)
Back then “The Press” was local papers.
Today “The Press” refereed to would be more along the lines of internet blogs such as this.
Information and opinions presented for the reader to evaluate.
Who fears giving people the facts? Who wants to hides them?

clipe
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 5, 2017 1:46 pm

“The secret to David McTaggart’s success is the secret to Greenpeace’s success: It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true…. You are what the media define you to be. [Greenpeace] became a myth, and a myth-generating machine.”
The cynical description of the organization Greenpeace comes not from some right-winger annoyed at the excess of the environmentalist movement but from Paul Watson, cofounder of Greenpeace and now the director of a rival ecology group, the Sea Shepherd Society.

http://luna.pos.to/whale/gen_art_green.html

clipe
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 5, 2017 2:20 pm

The Not So Peaceful World of Greenpeace
(from “Forbes”, Nov. 1991)
Leslie Spencer with Jan Bollwerk and Richard C. Morais
“The secret to David McTaggart’s success is the secret to Greenpeace’s success: It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe is true…. You are what the media define you to be. [Greenpeace] became a myth, and a myth-generating machine.”
The cynical description of the organization Greenpeace comes not from some right-winger annoyed at the excess of the environmentalist movement but from Paul Watson, cofounder of Greenpeace and now the director of a rival ecology group, the Sea Shepherd Society.
Watson, who left Greenpeace in 1977, was talking about how the organization grew from a ragtag band of hippies to the largest environmental organization in the world, with a membership of 5 million and offices in 24 countries. Not the least ingredient in this success was the clever myth-creation referred to by Watson.
Under its recently departed guru, David McTaggart, 59, the $157 million (1990 revenues) Greenpeace became a skillfully managed business, mastering the tools of direct mail and image manipulation – and indulging in forms of lobbying that would bring instant condemnation if practiced by a for-profit corporation. Ironical, this, considering that McTaggart marketed Greenpeace as very much the nemesis of the powerful multinational corporation.
The mythic image is of a band of young daredevils hanging off a refinary smokestack or thrusting themselves in the path of the whaler’s harpoon. This image has made a mighty impression. Greenpeace Germany, for instance, second-largest branch operation after Greenpeace U.S.A., had revenues last year of $36 million and 700,000 members, of whom 320,000 permit Greenpeace to automatically debit their bank accounts annually for the dues of 50 deutsche marks ($30).
But all is not peaceful in the inner workings of Greenpeace these days. The myth is fraying a little around the edges. Beginning this spring, German publications have carried revelations of millions of marks of donations being funneled into Greenpeace savings accounts rather than used to fight pollution.
Greenpeace underwent a major shakeup on Sept. 2 with the announcement by its international headquarters in Amsterdam that David McTaggart had resigned as chairman after 12 years in the post. Replacing him was Helsinki civil rights lawer Matti Wuori, 46; McTaggart became honorary chairman and says he will spend his time, among other things, on helping the Soviet Union clean up its environment. The timing was interesting, to say the least. There is some reason to believe that Wuori was brought in as a Mr. Clean to scrub Greenpeace’s now somewhat bespattered image.
Who is this somewhat mysterious David McTaggart, regarded by many as a near saintly figure? McTaggart’s skillful image manipulation begins with his own life story. There is the official version, as told in the 1989 book, The Greenpeace Story, and repeated over the years in many newspaper and magazine stories about the organization. According to this official version, McTaggart was once a successful real estate executive who saw the light at age 39 and decided to save the planet.
This version is myth. People who knew McTaggart in his earlier life say he was a failed real estate promoter who left investors and relatives in the lurch and departed before his projects failed (see box, p. 176). Gertrude Hubertry, mother of the third of McTaggart’s wives, and one of several people who lost money with him, remembers him as a ruthless businessman. “David once told me that when you want something badly enough, you have to be willing to do anything to get it,” she says. “Anything.”
One thing he wanted badly was the leadership of Greenpeace. In 1979 a fierce fight broke out between the Vancouver operation and loosely affiliated rivals in the U.S. over the use of the Greenpeace name. By then McTaggart was active in Greenpeace’s European operation, and he was famous for having been beaten by French agents when he tried to interfere with a French nuclear test. The Vancouver founders filed a lawsuit to win control of the name. Many say it was an open battle between David McTaggart and cofounder and president Patrick Moore. Moore had the support of the Canadians, but the U.S. and European affiliates were squarely in McTaggart’s camp. McTaggart emerged in 1980 with the chairmanship of Greenpeace International. Moore remained head of the Greenpeace Canada affiliate.
Of course, the millions of people who gave money and allegiance to the myth knew little of this internecine battling. There’s a paradox here. Outfits like Greenpeace attack big business as being faceless and responsible to no one. In fact, that description better fits Greenpeace than it does modern corporations that are regulated, patrolled and heavily taxed by governments, reported on by an adversarial press and carefully watched by their own shareholders. There’s little accountability for outfits like Greenpeace. The media treat them with kid gloves. Press Greenpeace and it will reveal that McTaggart’s salary was $60,000, but it won’t say anything about any other forms of compensation – something a U.S. corporation would be compelled to reveal in its proxy statements.
While affiliates like Greenpeace U.S.A. and Greenpeace Germany have their own boards, the real power and much of the money belong to the international organization, which until his resignation was ruled by McTaggart from his olive farm in Perugia, Italy and/or the Greenpeace office in Rome.
Amsterdam has the power because of all the cash upstreamed from the 12 most prosperous national organizations, which must pay a kind of royalty for use of the name. The royalty is set at 24% of their net take from fundraising. Power is further consolidated at the center as no national office can start a campaign without the approval of the international council.
How has Greenpeace used this power? Ruthlessly. There is a kind of ends-justify-the-means mentality at work here. Greenpeace pressured the University of Florida into firing marine biologist Richard Lambertsen in 1986. Lambertsen’s offense: doing research that required tissue samples from whale organs, research that Greenpeace had decided wasn’t scientifically useful. Greenpeace made the preposterous claim that Lambertsen was just a front for commercial whalers. Lambertsen, now at the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, says his research was aimed at identifying whale diseases. Greenpeace’s tactics, he says, included trucking protesters to the campus and flying over football games with banners that said “U of F stop killing whales.”
While the media were enthusiastically recording Greenpeace staffers dodging harpoons from Zodiac infratable dinghies, McTaggart was helping to pack the International Whaling Commission.
The commission was formed in 1946 in a treaty among whaling nations to prevent the overhunting of whales. The most closely affected nations were Japan, Iceland, the Soviet Union and Norway, but membership in the commission was open to any country that was willing to pay an annual fee of roughly $20,000 to $30,000 plus the cost of sending its representative to meetings. According to Francisco Palacio, a former Greenpeace consultant on marine mammals, he and McTaggart, working with their friends, came up with a way to bend the commission to the Greenpeace view that there should be an outright ban on whaling.
The whale savers targeted poor nations plus some small, newly independent ones like Antigua and St. Lucia. They drafted the required membership documents for submission to the U.S. State Department. They assigned themselves or their friends as the scientists and commissioners to represent these nations at the whaling commission. For instance, Palacio, a Columbian citizen based in Miami, arranged to be the commissioner from St. Lucia. The commissioner from Antigua was Palacio’s friend and lawer, Richard Baron, also from Miami. McTaggart’s friend Paul Gouin, a Moroccan-born French expatriate living in Nassau, Bahamas, served as commissioner from Panama. According to Palacio, the Greenpeace-inspired commissioners enjoyed an annual all-expenses-paid ten-day trip with a $300-per-diem perk to attend commission meetings. Palacio says the group paid to fly a U.N. ambassador home to talk his government into going along with the plan.
Between 1978 and 1982, Palacio says, the operation added at least half a dozen new member countries to the commission’s membership to achieve the three-fourths majority necessary for a moratorium on commercial whaling, which passed in 1982.
This project cost millions, says Palacio, including the commission membership payments picked up on behalf of cooperating members. “In membership fees the payments amounted to about $150,000 [a year], and then we had all the grease money throughout the years,” says Palacio. The Frenchman Gouin, then in his 30s, was the angel, funneling the funds through a Miami-based “foundation” called the Sea Life Resources Institute. Where did Gouin get that kind of Money? From trading investments, he says.
Greenpeace campaigns, like the save-the-whale one, often seem open and almost spontaneous. But they are carefully orchestrated, beginning with a network of investigators who collect tips from government officials, truck drivers and sympathetic employees at corporate targets of Greenpeace antipollution campaigns. One insider says that the intelligence gathering includes a clandestine operation in Zurich, a point that Matti Wuori denies. This much is clear: With its network of contacts, Greenpeace has turned itself into a vigilante group – vigilant in enforcing antipollution laws, but acting as judge and jury whenever it decides that government enforcers aren’t forceful enough. That little of this is widely understood is not surprising. A sympathetic press has always been a Greenpeace ally.
Greenpeace’s biggest fundraiser was a tragic event that Greenpeace didn’t plan at all. In 1985, French government agents, attempting to thwart a Greenpeace obstruction of nuclear testing, blew up Greenpeace’s ship Rainbow Warrior in Auckland, New Zealand. Photographer Fernando Pereira, who was on board at the time, was killed. The incident brought instant martyr status to the organization.
Greenpeace was not slow to exploit the publicity. Between 1985 and 1987 Greenpeace U.S.A. revenues tripled to $25 million.
But the martyrdom was somewhat sullied by allegations that Pereira was allied with terrorists. A German intelligence official says that German and Dutch intelligence agencies had files on Pereira describing him as a “contact” of a political front man for the terrorist Second of June Movement gang, and as a contact with the Soviet KGB in planning antinuclear missile protests in Western Europe.
Greenpeace denies these allegations, and says that the stories of the terrorist connections are fabrications planted by a French foreign security agency trying to take the sting out of the ugly event in Auckland.
The truth on that score may never be known, but Greenpeace reaped huge publicity dividends from the tragedy while the police allegations got scant attention in the media. When unfavorable publicity does surface, Greenpeace frequently takes to the courts. In the last year Greenpeace has filed suits against three German publications that have said things about Greenpeace it didn’t like. Feeling free to criticize others, Greenpeace does not seem to feel others have the right to criticize it.
Reykjavik, Iceland-based independent filmmaker Magnus Gudmundsson can testify to this. Gudmundsson’s 1989 documentary Survival in the High North shows the struggle between hunting peoples of the far north and environmentalists. It paints a dismal picture of welfare dependency and rising suicide rates among the hunting populations of Iceland, Greenland and the Faroe Island, where the seal hunting business was devastated after the successful campaign by Greenpeace and animal rights groups to ban sealskin imports to Europe.
Gudmundsson’s film reexamines evidence produced in 1986 by award-winning Danish journalist Leif Blaedel, which shows that one propaganda film used by Greenpeace was faked by using paid animal torturers. Blaedel cites gruesome scenes in the film Goodbye Joey, which Dirranbandi, Australia, court records had confirmed were faked by its producers. These scenes, he reports, were staged by paid kangaroo shooters who were later fined for torturing kangaroos for the film. Court documents confirm that the film’s fraudulence was a matter of public record in 1983, three years before the last known time Greenpeace Denmark sent it out on request – to Blaedel himself. Greenpeace media director Peter Dykstra says Greenpeace stopped distributing the film in 1983, when it discovered the film’s “integrity problems.”
Greenpeace has tried to silence Gudmundsson, with demands for injunctions and/or damages in the courts of Iceland, the U.K. and Norway. Gudmundsson has spent about $40,000 in legal fees so far.
If Greenpeace’s ends justify such means, what are these noble ends? It’s impossible to say precisely, though unmistakable is a hatred of business and free markets. Greenpeace U.S.A. Executive Director Peter Bahouth told the newspaper In These Times in April 1990: “I don’t believe in the market approach…. It results in treating toxics or pollution as a commodity…. When companies have a bottom line of profit you won’t have them thinking about the environment.”
German environmental consultant Joseph Huber, talking about militant elements in Greenpeace Germany, sums up an informed outsider’s view: “These Greenpeacers do not know what they are longing for. But they do feel the strong need to protest the perceived destruction of the earth by industrialism and capitalism. The Marxist elements are interspersed with a new kind of romanticism and anarchism.”
There is nothing in environmentalism that says it has to be statist and antimarket to work. The Bozeman, Mont.-based Political Economy Research Center, for instance, endorses a property-rights approach to solving environmental problems, and even the mainstream Environmental Defense Fund favors marketable pollution permits. But Greenpeace, at least the pre-Wuori Greenpeace, would have no truck with the free market. Its philosophy is that pollution is a sin, not a cost, and should be outlawed, not taxed – even if that means shutting down industry.
Robert Hunter was a cofounder of Greenpeace and to some its spiritual leader. He is now an environmental filmmaker based in Toronto. In 1979 he wrote a chronicle of Greenpeace, Warriors of the Rainbow. It says: “Machiavellianism and mysticism alike played their parts in the shaping of the consciousness [that Greenpeace] expressed. It embodied at times a religious fervor, at other times a ruthlessness that bordered on savagery…. Corruption and greatness both played their part and both took their tolls.”
Ruthlessness and religion are a combustible mixture, the more so when combined with an absolutist certainty. Greenpeace gives research grants but doesn’t fund research on cleaning up toxic or nuclear wastes. Why? Greenpeace says its role is to prevent pollution rather than cleaning it up. It seems that finding solutions to the safe disposal of such wastes undermines the Greenpeace objective of eliminating the industrial processes that create the waste.
Greenpeace U.S.A. recently commissioned a report from forestry expert Randal O’Toole on the economics of the U.S. timber industry. O’Toole concluded that eliminating government subsidies to the U.S. Forest Service and allowing it to charge recreation fees would reduce the Forest Service’s incentives to overcut trees. According to O’Toole, Greenpeace didn’t allow publication of the study’s recommendations under its name. Says O’Toole, “I had the feeling that someone higher up in Greenpeace didn’t like my conclusions.”
In its money-raising literature, Greenpeace often invokes its allegiance to the nonviolent rhetoric of Mahatma Gandhi and the Quaker notion of “bearing witness.” But Gandhi believed passionately that good ends do not justify evil means; Greenpeace’s devotion to this ideal is questionable.
Take, for example, its support for Earth First, an eco-terrorist group whose methods would have horrified Gandhi – and whose cofounder, Michael Roselle, is now on Greenpeace’s payroll. It is famous for driving spikes into trees, which can injure sawmill workers. (Roselle says Earth First now “discourages” tree-spiking.) When a car bomb explosion led in 1990 to the arrest of two Earth First members injured in the blast, Greenpeace formed an alliance of environmental groups that paid their bail and private investigation fees. Roselle, still an Earth First member, offers the theory that the Earth Firsters were innocent victims of attempted murder by anti-environmentalists. No charges were filed.
It seems clear that Greenpeace’s benign image and name, so redolent of goodness, are a cover for a disdain for capitalism. Not surprisingly, international board member Susan George and military expert William Atkin used to work at the notoriously leftist Institute for Policy Studies.
In many of its utterances, Greenpeace is less an institution dedicated to saving endangered species than it is an advocate of a Big Brother who would run the world the way Greenpeace insiders would like it to be run. This is clearly spelled out in an editorial in the March/April 1990 issue of Greenpeace magazine. The editorial compares Eastern Europe’s command economies to the West’s “savage capitalism.” Mindless of the environmental devastation caused by socialism, the editorial concludes: “From a purely ecological perspective, the two competing ideologies were barely distinguishable.” That outrageous statement would hardly sell in the newly freed countries of Eastern Europe, although Greenpeace has recently opened two offices there, but in the pampered West it apparently finds believers.
Can Greenpeace’s new chairman check this anticapitalistic fervor and bring Greenpeace into the mainstream of environmentalism? Matti Wuori seems to be serious about infusing his more moderate views into the organization – and he plans to create an internal audit unit. But to the extent that he curbs Greenpeace’s worst tendencies, Wuori risks damaging the reputation for militance that has done so much to build Greenpeace’s myth.
_

MarkW
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 6, 2017 8:47 am

Gloateus, I’ve talked with a number of so called environmentalists who would love to get the earth’s human population under 100 million, by any means necessary.
And have all of those packed into one or two cities with the rest of the world returned to “nature”.

clipe
Reply to  Jack DuBrul
February 4, 2017 6:19 pm

“No matter if the science of global warming is all phony…climate change [provides] the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.”
F.ormer Canadian Minister of the Environment Christine Stewart

Steve Lohr
Reply to  clipe
February 4, 2017 10:31 pm

She was trying to tell the truth but couldn’t quite articulate it.

dennisambler
Reply to  clipe
February 5, 2017 8:50 am

Lisa P Jackson (then EPA head),20th January 2012:
“As Rio+20, the 20th anniversary of the 1992 Earth Summit, approaches in June, we have a chance to learn lessons, build partnerships and put in place innovative strategies that can reshape the economic and environmental future of our entire planet. It is the rarest of opportunities to truly change the world, and make a difference that will benefit billions of people.”
Ban Ki Moon, then UN Secretary-General, 14 February 2012:
“Most of the world’s ecosystems are in decline. We are nearing the point of no return on climate change. You all understand the high stakes — for jobs, for social justice, for the Millennium Development Goals, for the health of the planet.”
Gro Harlem Brundtland (the Brundtland Report became Agenda 21) Socialist International 15 -17 September 1992:
“At the Rio Conference on Environment and Development (1992) it was made clear that we are heading towards a crisis of uncontrollable dimensions unless we change course. In an increasingly interdependent world, we must find new ways to live – both within our own countries and on a global level – that are socially, economically, and environmentally sustainable. What we need is a new social contract.
A new social contract must be based on our overriding principles – freedom, solidarity and justice. To pursue social justice, freedom and democracy will require that we pool our collective experiences and national sovereignties. There is no alternative to obligatory coordination of financial and monetary policies.”
The names change, but the message is always the same.

Reply to  Jack DuBrul
February 5, 2017 5:49 am

Would “Slientist” be a synonym?

SMC
February 4, 2017 4:48 pm

Huh. What a surprise.

February 4, 2017 4:51 pm

Holy crap. I wonder what the “scientists” will say about this. They were so busy denying that Lamar Smith had a right to call a government employee to testify on a paper paid for by the government funding. It turns out, they were wrong.
By all rights, this should end CAGW. Somehow, I doubt it will.
It looks like Roy Spencer’s data may be the most relisable dataset around.

Reply to  lorcanbonda
February 4, 2017 7:03 pm

The trouble is, according to the newspaper article, NOAA expects to release an updated version with the flaws fixed and utilizing satellite data.
It took awhile, but that little blurb explains why UAH suddenly changed their satellite algorithm last year.
What used to be relatively pristine satellite temperature estimates have Karl fudge applied to them.

bit chilly
Reply to  ATheoK
February 4, 2017 8:12 pm

what is the betting the new and improved version will show even more warming .

Stephen Richards
Reply to  ATheoK
February 5, 2017 1:59 am

It was Mieirs at RSS that suddenly changed his data UPWARDS. Roy’s data remains fundamentally on the same trend.

TA
Reply to  ATheoK
February 5, 2017 7:42 am

Thank you Stephen, for straightening that out.
RSS still shows 1998 as hotter than any subsequent year but 2016, so RSS still has a little credibility. We’ll see what the future brings.

Richard M
Reply to  lorcanbonda
February 4, 2017 8:54 pm

The next data tampering that needs to be investigated is RSS 4.0.

afonzarelli
Reply to  Richard M
February 4, 2017 10:49 pm

Richard, is rss government funded? (i thought they were a private entity and could do whatever they wanted)…

Richard M
Reply to  Richard M
February 5, 2017 10:31 am

Yes, RSS is government funded (NOAA and NASA).

Roguewave1
Reply to  lorcanbonda
February 4, 2017 9:37 pm

How often have you got someone to abandon their religion by logic?

Tom Halla
February 4, 2017 4:54 pm

Bates does not look that old, so bringing him out of retirement should not be that much of a stretch. Someone needs to reform the operation.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Tom Halla
February 4, 2017 9:23 pm

The photo may not be current.

jazznick1
Reply to  Roger Knights
February 5, 2017 3:38 am

I suspect he may now have a beard and a bullet proof jacket.

Reply to  Tom Halla
February 5, 2017 3:37 am

I estimate Dr. Bates is about 60 years of age. B.Sc. in 1976.
https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/american-geophysical-union-elects-ncdc-scientist-board
Dr. Bates’ technical expertise lies in atmospheric sciences, and his interests include satellite observations of the global water and energy cycle, air-sea interactions, and climate variability. He has authored over 45 publications and has been involved in major national and international programs devoted to the study of meteorological science. Bates received his Bachelor of Science degree in meteorology in 1976 at Florida State University. He received his Masters of Science degree in meteorology in 1982 as well as his Doctor of Philosophy in meteorology in 1986 at University of Wisconsin, Madison.

chilemike
February 4, 2017 4:58 pm

Might be time for a subpoena for Mr. Karl to come and have a chat with Congress. I would hope that there are other scientists who have been bullied by these frauds who will come forward.

Reply to  chilemike
February 4, 2017 7:05 pm

Karl needs a chat with the FBI in one of the FBI “interview” rooms.
While the FBI also “interview” Karl’s computers, servers and communications.

Steve Fraser
Reply to  ATheoK
February 4, 2017 7:40 pm

Forensic computer techs can do a lot these days.

Reply to  ATheoK
February 4, 2017 7:46 pm

The manner of deposition is irrelevant, but very very useful! 🙂

Roguewave1
Reply to  ATheoK
February 4, 2017 9:41 pm

I hope Dr. Karl, et.al. are sleeping well tonight.

afonzarelli
Reply to  ATheoK
February 4, 2017 10:52 pm

(yeah, and on very expensive beds)…

AndyG55
Reply to  ATheoK
February 5, 2017 9:58 pm

There were EIGHT writers.
Either they all have back-ups of code and data………… .or
They NEVER examined that code and data.
Think about that. !!!!

Mike Smith
February 4, 2017 4:58 pm

Oops. There must be some very red faces among the senior managers at NOAA this weekend.
With luck, President Trump will be able to use Dr Bates’ evidence to further justify a massive cleanup of the cesspool at NOAA and elsewhere.

RockyRoad
Reply to  Mike Smith
February 4, 2017 9:44 pm

…I doubt they have the strength of character to do that.

kim
Reply to  Mike Smith
February 5, 2017 2:16 am

I have long thought that there will come a time when we will pity the mass of climate scientists. It will be difficult to separate the deliberate deceivers from the relatively innocent fellow travelers, except in egregious cases, such as this instance.
History will forgive the mass of them, and I’m inclined to support that. No doubt there will be confession, redemption, and improved behaviour. The example, however, of those who resisted the alarmist narrative will forever shame that mass, that 97% of climate scientists who just let the whole mess roll on, fearful of rocking the boat, even in the cause of keeping the boat on course.
It’s all been such a shame, and a forgivable shame, too, by the those who’ve survived the social pathology of alarmism. Those who’ve not survived may be less inclined to forgive, but what do they matter anyway? Anyway? Anyway? They’re no matter, but perhaps something of even greater substance.
================

Mickey Reno
Reply to  Mike Smith
February 5, 2017 5:40 am

Forrest G, “the more cunning ones will seamlessly morph into scientists.”
Wickedly brilliant!
Kim: “there will come a time when we will pity the mass of climate scientists.”
Perhaps, but tempered, no doubt, by the fact we’ll still be paying for some of these peoples’ pensions as the ‘science’ they developed over the course of their lives crumbles to dust.
I suspect the embarrassment reaches its climax as CAGW becomes a textbook sociological case study in propaganda driven mass hysteria in the era of mass communication, dwarfing, both in terms of scale and the level of official sanction, the panics intrinsic to Y2K, SARS and the alleged Ozone Hole.

asybot
Reply to  Mike Smith
February 5, 2017 11:41 am

@ Kim,”we will pity the mass of climate scientists.”
should read: we will stop the Mass of climate scientists and close the Church.

PaulH
February 4, 2017 4:59 pm

Hopefully these “scientists” will be assigned to duties more suited to their particular skill set. For example, washing chemistry lab glassware or picking up roadside litter.

noaaprogrammer
Reply to  PaulH
February 4, 2017 5:45 pm

… also, re-typesetting the past at the ‘Ministry of Truth.’

Reply to  noaaprogrammer
February 4, 2017 10:49 pm

Ha. Nice one. ‘Ministry’…so much like the fantasy harry potter novels.. NOAA ministry of magical affairs.

Nigel S
Reply to  noaaprogrammer
February 5, 2017 1:29 am

Oceania has always been at war with Climate Change.

Roy Hartwell
Reply to  PaulH
February 5, 2017 8:26 am

I’m not sure I’d want them washing MY laboratory glassware…..I was always VERY fussy !!

Steve Fraser
February 4, 2017 5:00 pm

I think the dual failures, the lack of archive and the failure of the computer system, have put NOAA in the vise.

Steve Fraser
Reply to  Steve Fraser
February 4, 2017 5:09 pm

And I am delighted that Congressman Smith is in the loop. I wonder how GIStemp, derivative of the NOAA numbers, will be affected.

Reply to  Steve Fraser
February 5, 2017 12:27 am

“I think the dual failures, the lack of archive and the failure of the computer system”
The archive is here.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 4:01 am

“The archive is here”: Great news, Nick! Does that mean that you – or someone else – will be able now to replicate Karl’s pause-busting paper exactly and prove Bates a liar?

Bill Illis
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 6:02 am

Well Zeke Hausfather 2017 confirmed Karl’s numbers. He did it exactly backwards however by showing there was no difference in the ships versus the buoys so all was good. Except Karl adjusted the buoys up by 0.12C up because they had less warming than the ships. Some deep logic missing there. Obviously Hausfather 2017 has to be withdrawn now too since it can not be replicated given he must have used Karl’s data (from a crashed computer that put out different numbers every time).
http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601207.full

emsnews
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 7:42 am

The computer crashed because of a drunk driver. 🙂

kim
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 9:32 am

HeeHee, hotboxed CO2.
=======

G. Karst
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 10:48 am

Nick, we look forward to your reproduction of data set analysis. GK

February 4, 2017 5:01 pm

The warmist response was more like “this is witch hunt just like when a Democrat congressmen subpoenaed all of the records by the leading skeptics.”
Except there is a huge difference between subpoenaing all of the records by people who hold the same opinions and subpoening the records of one government employee which applied to his recently published government funded research.

Joe
February 4, 2017 5:03 pm

The concept of measuring the entire global to fractions of a degree with mercury thermometers is silly on it’s face. They are covering less than 2% of the surface even if their intentions were not fraudulent
The satellite stuff is better but not much
The tidal gauges are the only real measurement of the trend in global temperature.

Windsong
Reply to  Joe
February 4, 2017 7:47 pm

Joe, I do not agree with tidal gauge idea. They are only a coast, no interior data, and a lot of variability with subsidence, etc. Grand Isle, LA, is ~ +9.05mm/yr (multiple reasons), while Valdez, AK, is ~ -8.6mm/yr (mainly rebound). If either location reflects a temp trend up or down, I don’t know how you could separate it from land movement.

Reply to  Joe
February 4, 2017 8:57 pm

For past Australian land T data there is a rounding bias that cannot be proven but can becestimstedvas 0.1 to 0.2 C. There is also a conversion error around year 1975 from deg F to deg C of an estimated 0.2 C that the BOM reports then ignores (complications from a likely global climate shift around 1975).
Add these two identifiable error sources at their high plausible level and you get 0.3 of the 0.9 C that BOM claim was Australian warming over the 20th century. A third of it.
That is a bigger error than the Karlised adjustments.Nothing seems proposed to investigate the BOM temperature error.
Geoff

John Harmsworth
Reply to  Geoff Sherrington
February 5, 2017 8:16 pm

It’s a lot of trouble adjusting temps upward Geoff. One has to expose oneself as a fraud and incompetent as a scientist and really a complete failure as a human being. Now you want them to grow a normal sized human conscience and fix their foul deeds? Methinks Shakespeare would have had a field day with these hypocrites. They make Macbeth look like an innocent!

Arbeegee
February 4, 2017 5:03 pm

Tell me again how there is no such thing as Alternate Facts.

Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 5:03 pm

WAY — TO — GO, JOHN BATES!
And hearty applause also for Anthony Watts, who played no small part in all this….
From 2008

…. Then came a personal tour of the Asheville CRN station by Dr. Bruce Baker. In addition to taking visible light photos, I also took matching IR photos from many angles. Bruce and his team were quite impressed with the IR camera I use, ….
But the big news came with Dr. Baker providing me with a press release (new today) to post here for you all to see. CRN is getting completed and USHCN modernization is starting:
“NOAA today announced it will install the last nine of the 114 stations as part of its new, high-tech climate monitoring network. …
NOAA also is modernizing 1,000 stations in the Historical Climatology Network (HCN), … NOAA’s goal is to have both networks work in tandem to feed consistently accurate, high-quality data to scientists studying climate trends.”
***
What this means: No more adjusted data, the raw data from CRN and from HCN-M is the real data and will be pristine, assuming the network is maintained. No more torturous gyrations of FILNET, SHAP, and TOBS. The downside is that a track record needs to be built up, the older data is also going to be revised with USHCN2 algorithms soon, and I’ll touch on that later.
… perhaps some of the focus the surfacestations.org project brought to illuminating the deplorable condition of the network may have helped a little bit in convincing some legislators that it was time to get serious about allocating funding to complete the CRN and fix the USHCN. A little public embarrassment of the USHCN provided by all of us that have contributed to surfacestations.org may have helped. I’d sure like to think so. …

(Source: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/04/24/road-trip-update-day-2-at-ncdc-and-press-release/ )
I have no doubt, Anthony, that as to your weather stations project’s influence, you can know so.
And, also, here’s to you, WUWT and Surfacestations volunteers:

I want to thank you, my loyal readers and volunteers, because without your help, the trip and presentation I made would not be possible.

Anthony (Ibid.)
So proud of ALL of you!

asybot
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 5:25 pm

Janice , they never stopped trying to adjust the data! The Watts report was 8 years ago. How old is this Karl et al report? What? 2 years old.?
These guys , with the billions of taxpayer dollars involved should be charged with FRAUD! and misuse of Government property.( computers etc.)!

Reply to  asybot
February 5, 2017 3:50 am

Another of my predictions proves true – this one from 2013::
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/09/21/salmon-climate-and-accountability/#comment-1743273
On Accountability:
I wrote this to a friend in the USA one year ago:
I am an engineer, not a lawyer, but to be clear I was thinking of a class action (or similar) lawsuit, rather than an individual lawsuit from yourself or anyone else.
I suggest that there have been many parties that have been damaged by global warming alarmism. Perhaps the most notable are people who have been forced to pay excessive rates for electricity due to CO2-mandated wind and solar power schemes. Would the people of California qualify? Any other states? I suggest the people of Great Britain, Germany and possibly even Ontario would qualify, but the USA is where this lawsuit would do the most good.
There is an interesting field of US law that employs the RICO (anti-racketeering) statutes to provide treble (triple) damages in civil cases. That might be a suitable approach,
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Racketeering
Despite congressional attempts to limit the scope of civil RICO, only one major area of law has been removed from the RICO Act. The Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 (15 U.S.C.A. § 77 et seq.) eliminated liability for RICO claims based on securities Fraud, unless the defendant has already been criminally convicted of securities fraud. The act thus removed the threat of treble (triple) damages in such cases. Congress concluded that federal securities laws generally provide adequate remedies for victims of securities fraud. Therefore, it was unnecessary and unfair to expose defendants in securities cases to the threat of treble damages and other extraordinary remedies provided by the RICO Act.
Critics of the RICO Act applaud this congressional action but argue that the same reasoning can and should be applied to other areas of Civil Law. These critics maintain that the act’s broad scope has given plaintiffs an unfair advantage in civil litigation.
One criticism of civil RICO is that no criminal convictions are necessary to win a civil case under the act. The plaintiff need only show, by a Preponderance of Evidence, that it is more likely than not that the ongoing criminal enterprise occurred. As a result RICO has been used in all types of civil cases to allege wrongdoing. By contrast, a criminal RICO case must be proved Beyond a Reasonable Doubt.
In addition, the judge and jury in a criminal RICO case are prohibited from drawing an adverse inference from a defendant’s invocation of the Fifth Amendment Privilege against Self-Incrimination. No such ban exists, however, in a civil RICO case. Critics contend that it is unfair for a party in a civil RICO case who has concerns about potential criminal liability to be forced to waive his or her Fifth Amendment privilege in order to mount an effective defense in the civil action. Once testimony is given in the civil case, the party has effectively waived the privilege against Self-Incrimination, and the testimony may be used in a subsequent criminal prosecution. Critics contend that the RICO Act should be amended to stay (delay) a civil RICO proceeding until a criminal RICO proceeding has been concluded.
The critics of civil RICO also believe that its use has given plaintiffs an unfair tool that often serves to coerce a party to settle out of fear of a treble damages award. These critics believe that no civil RICO action should be allowed unless the party has been convicted under criminal RICO.
[end of excerpt]
I suggest the Climategate emails could provide the necessary evidence of a criminal conspiracy to defraud the public, through fraudulent misallocation of government-funded research monies, and wind and solar power schemes that were forced upon consumers and which were utterly incapable of providing significant or economic new energy to the electric power grid.
Your thoughts?
Regards, Allan
___________________________________________________
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2014/09/21/salmon-climate-and-accountability/#comment-1743671
Phil – please see my post of September 21, 2014 at 11:28 pm
I suggest that someone is going to sue these warmist fraudsters in the USA, probably using the civil RICO statutes.
Watch for it…
Best, Allan

Reply to  asybot
February 5, 2017 4:23 am

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/09/19/climate-alarmists-demand-obama-use-the-rico-act-to-silence-critics/#comment-2031320
David and Jean – you appear to misunderstand.
I was and still am proposing a Civil RICO lawsuit against the global warming alarmists, not the skeptics.
The Climategate emails, the warmists’ falsifying of climate science, climate models and now even climate data are damning evidence of deliberate falsehoods, deceit and fraud.
These are not incidents of accidental and random error – the falsehoods are too consistent, there are far too many of them, there is ample evidence of conspiracy, and nobody who earns a PhD can be that imbecilic for that long without deliberate and conscious effort.
Civil RICO is a cause of action unique to the USA that is well-suited to these warmist fraudsters.
Regards, Allan

MRW
Reply to  asybot
February 7, 2017 3:29 am

Allan,

Congress concluded that federal securities laws generally provide adequate remedies for victims of securities fraud.

Complete BS in that quote, Allan. The Bush and Obama admin DOJ refused to prosecute any elite banker for mortgage loan origination fraud and mortgage securites fraud. [Hell, former Chairman & CEO of Goldman sachs, Governor of NJ and US Senator Jon Corzine purloined $1.2 billion of his clients’ money at M.F. Global without their permission in a stock gamble, stole it, and lost it, and what happened to him? Zip. Zero.
NYC Prez of the NY Federal Reserve Geithner claimed during his Obama admin Sec Treasury hearings that he didn’t have to regulate mortgage banks (it’s in the NY Fed charter; mortgage banks do NOT come under federal bank charter rules, the NY Fed regulates them) even though the FBI testified in Sept 2004 in open testimony before Congress that there was an “epidemic of mortgage fraud” in the country, fully 90% of all loans were fraudulent.
This scam pulled in the mid-90s to spare themselves a RICO charge helped to create the Sept 2008 financial crisis. The white-collar crime term for it is “control fraud.” Fraud by those in control.
And these Wall Street crooks pulled off this scam on Congress with the help of Greenspan while Clinton was distracted with his girlie trials.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 7:10 pm

Yes, Sybot, I realize that (thank you for reminding me, in case I had forgotten). In my view, Anthony’s fine work (and the volunteers helping him) shone such a bright light on the flawed temperature data that Karl’s Science Thugs got very nervous resulting in their hurriedly getting out their paste and tape and caulk and stuff to try to keep their crumbling junk science sculpture from looking as AWFUL it really was.
That haste did them in.
That and, a hero of a truth teller.

asybot
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 5, 2017 11:57 am

Absolutely no doubt about that.
At first, when all this started with Al Gore, I leaned the warmist’s way but after a friend pointed out this web site years ago and I started following the science I( as many others have since finding it) have become a sceptic as well.
This is a very good day for Anthony and we all do congratulate him. (I also wonder if Mark Steyn is having a fun day!)

John Harmsworth
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 5, 2017 8:51 pm

I am happy to second that emotion .While I struggle with some of the statistical math here,my physics is pretty solid and I have learned a great deal from this site and have developed a tremendous respect for Anthony as well as the many intelligent,informed and,most importantly,principled people who contribute on here. In the face of a massive deceit being perpetrated by powerful people,Anthony’s site a a few other’s provide the light of honest questioning to a dark and shameful corner of human affairs. I have no wish to make Warmist martyrs out of the many ambitious liars and fraudsters such as Mann, the Hockey team and others now including Karl as many long suspected, but I do believe that formal legal sanctions and complete professional discreditation are warranted and necessary as a warning to future scientists to hang on tightly to the ethical standards. I’m afraid a few metaphorical public hangings are required.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 9:27 pm

Speaking of Watts, his paper ought to be another bombshell when it’s published.

Reply to  Janice Moore
February 5, 2017 7:04 am

As long as the equipment is maintained and accurately calibrated at consistent intervals, the data should be reliable, those stations out of calibration should be noted and excluded. But with so many stations and the state of ethics in science, I can see the changes happening. Like the generations of satellites that present upward notches as each new satellite came on line.
And what about the old station thermometers that were found to be non-linear and recorded higher at higher temperatures?
I’ll admit at the state of climate science in the government, I’m skeptical.

RockyRoad
Reply to  Robert
February 5, 2017 9:19 pm

For example, I used to go to the SnoTel Narrative page to get current compilations of precipitation values reported daily by our network of SnoTel stations but those “scientists” in charge of that must have a bad case of butt-hurt because it’s been unavailable for a week now.
It reminds me of when Obama’s administration closed down national parks and historic sites in retribution for Republican-led budget cuts–these elitist bozos are nasty people who think they have ownership when it’s the taxpayers who are footing their salaries!
They all need to be flushed from the swamp, with the first big step the repudiation of Hillary–worst candidate to ever be nominated.

Roger Knights
February 4, 2017 5:04 pm

CAUSEBUSTER!

Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 5:05 pm

The problem is we are still playing brontosaurs here. The story will be buried. Quickly. President Trump or his staff needs to be alerted to this.
There is so much on their plate that something like this can slip through the cracks. Next there is a time and place, this may be something best used in a dramatic setting, or disagreement, when the effects will have the most devastating impact.
(read, hearings or court)
michael

Janice Moore
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 5:12 pm

Fear not, O Michael the Vigilant! 🙂
(from above David Rose article excerpts)

… Last night {Texas Republican Lamar Smith, US House of Representatives Science Committee chairman} thanked Dr Bates ‘for courageously stepping forward to tell the truth about NOAA’s senior officials playing fast and loose with the data in order to meet a politically predetermined conclusion’. …

This will not go unnoticed by those in power. Heh, heh, HEH! 🙂

Reply to  Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 7:35 pm

Janice:
Lamar Smith let the fact be known, that Smith himself was in contact with NOAA whistleblowers. Hopefully, there is a whistleblower who saved all relevant communications and documents.

asybot
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 5, 2017 11:59 am

Next? IRS, EPA. We need more whistle blowers.

asybot
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 5:29 pm

COURT ! No question about it, misleading Congress is just one of them. Then the misuse of computers, wilfully destroying data ( that belongs to the taxpayers) and the list is probably a lot longer, I am not a lawyer. But in my view these guys belong behind bars and their pensions should be revoked!

jim heath
February 4, 2017 5:07 pm

These climate papers should all begin with “once upon a time”

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  jim heath
February 4, 2017 5:13 pm

On a planet far far away,,,,,
mike

Janice Moore
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 5:30 pm

“And the wicked data twister trolls were locked up in the giant’s dungeon and the little hobbits lived happily every after.
The End.”
🙂

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 6:36 pm

Janice Moore February 4, 2017 at 5:30 pm
Janice,
not my caverns please I hate gristle

Janice Moore
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 7:18 pm

Correction to Janice’s story ending:
“I shall cast those data twister trolls into Michael’s Caverns,” cried the knight.
“No!” a deep voice thundered from the darkness at their feet, “not my caverns please, I hate gristle!”
“To the dungeons with them, then!”
“And…
The End.”
#(:))

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 7:37 pm

Janice Moore February 4, 2017 at 7:18 pm
smile
michael

February 4, 2017 5:07 pm

Global Satellites: 2016 0.02°C Warmer than 1998: http://www.drroyspencer.com/2017/01/global-satellites-2016-not-statistically-warmer-than-1998/
Over the last two decades there’s been zero or near zero warming. The climate models, the basis for all climate alarm, show temperatures skyrocketing. A joke:comment image
We we’re supposed to be boiling and flooded by now. But everything is as serene and normal and unchanged as ever:

“European cities will be plunged beneath rising seas as Britain is plunged into a Siberian climate by 2020.” -Paul Harris, UK Ecojournalist

JohnKnight
Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 4, 2017 7:18 pm

Over 95% of Climate Models Agree . . ?
Climate Siants protocols allow for some
homogenization; ‘surface’ 97.8 & ‘lower troposphere’ 95.6 >< 96.4
and some smoothing; 96.~5
And spacial adjusting (surface over lower troposphere) ; 97% (Congratulations)
(Trust me, no one will be the wiser . . but delete this just in case)

Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 6, 2017 11:52 am

You’re right, the observations must be wrong. And the models are below the calculated math, when co2 levels were lower.
Delta Ts = ( -288/4) (-4/240) = 1.2 K.
So I saw the graphs, are they really adjusting the temperature down ? I mean that’s without any positive feedback. Scary isn’t it ?

Reply to  Eric Simpson
February 6, 2017 3:25 pm

You’ve got the UAH lower troposphere wrong and thereby you weaken the impact of real global temperature change. UAH December 2016 temperature chart shows cooling, not the warming you do from 2002 on. This cooling lasted from 2002 to 2012. Beyond that point the temperature curve turns up again in preparation for the upcoming El Nino as I pointed out in my comment.

TA
February 4, 2017 5:08 pm

Do Whistle Blowers get a cut of the savings? In some cases, when someone blows the whistle on government waste, the whistle blower gets paid a percentage of whatever taxpayer money his whistle blowing might have saved the taxpayers.
If I figured correctly, Dr. Bates ought to be in line for about an $8 billion payment per year for telling the truth. This Climate Change deception is supposed to cost taxpayers $80 billion per year, according to the article, so $8 billion is ten percent. 🙂 Good work, Dr. Bates.
The word is there are a lot of NOAA/NASA employess blowing the whistle. Dr. Bates may be just the first of many.

Science or Fiction
February 4, 2017 5:12 pm

“But the whistleblower, Dr John Bates, a top NOAA scientist with an impeccable reputation, has shown The Mail on Sunday irrefutable evidence that the paper was based on misleading, ‘unverified’ data.”
Let us see that evidence then.
In Gods we believe, everybody else has to bring data.

markl
Reply to  Science or Fiction
February 4, 2017 5:22 pm

Didn’t Karl admit it? “He also admitted that the final, approved and ‘operational’ edition of the GHCN land data would be ‘different’ from that used in the paper’.” Someone pleads guilty and you want to mount a defense?

Tom Harley
Reply to  Science or Fiction
February 4, 2017 6:39 pm

John Bates has a guest post at Judith Curry’s climate etc. https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/04/climate-scientists-versus-climate-data/

Science or Fiction
Reply to  Tom Harley
February 5, 2017 1:06 am

Thanks for that link to that article by John Bates. That is exactly what I was looking for.
An article like that is completely different from “the whistleblower, Dr John Bates, a top NOAA scientist with an impeccable reputation, has shown The Mail on Sunday “.
I look forward to the day mainstream media starts to identify and link to articles.

Reply to  Tom Harley
February 5, 2017 4:19 am

Thank you Tom Harley for the Dr. John Bates guest post at
https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/04/climate-scientists-versus-climate-data/
This quote is of particular interest:
“Gradually, in the months after K15 [the study of Tom Karl et al. 2015 (hereafter referred to as the Karl study or K15), purporting to show no ‘hiatus’ in global warming in the 2000s] came out, the evidence kept mounting that Tom Karl constantly had his ‘thumb on the scale’—in the documentation, scientific choices, and release of datasets—in an effort to discredit the notion of a global warming hiatus and rush to time the publication of the paper to influence national and international deliberations on climate policy.”
*********************

Reply to  Tom Harley
February 5, 2017 4:50 am

Comment: I would be interested in Dr. Bates views regarding what drives what.
Excerpts below are from Veizer (GAC 2005). Dr. Bates also works on the global water and energy cycle.
As I proved in January 2008 (MacRae, icecap.us), dCO2/dt varies with temperature and its integral atmospheric CO2 lags global temperature by about 9 months in the modern data record. Quelle surprise!
Best, Allan
https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/04/climate-scientists-versus-climate-data/
“Dr. Bates’ technical expertise lies in atmospheric sciences, and his interests include satellite observations of the global water and energy cycle, air-sea interactions, and climate variability. His most highly cited papers are in observational studies of long term variability and trends in atmospheric water vapor and clouds.”
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/05/06/the-bern-model-puzzle/#comment-982270
Excerpts from Veizer (GAC 2005):
“Pages 14-15: The postulated causation sequence is therefore: brighter sun => enhanced thermal flux + solar wind => muted CRF => less low-level clouds => lower albedo => warmer climate.
Pages 21-22: The hydrologic cycle, in turn, provides us with our climate, including its temperature component. On land, sunlight, temperature, and concomitant availability of water are the dominant controls of biological activity and thus of the rate of photosynthesis and respiration. In the oceans, the rise in temperature results in release of CO2 into air. These two processes together increase the flux of CO2 into the atmosphere. If only short time scales are considered, such a sequence of events would be essentially opposite to that of the IPCC scenario, which drives the models from the bottom up, by assuming that CO2 is the principal climate driver and that variations in celestial input are of subordinate or negligible impact….
… The atmosphere today contains ~ 730 PgC (1 PgC = 1015 g of carbon) as CO2 (Fig. 19). Gross primary productivity (GPP) on land, and the complementary respiration flux of opposite sign, each account annually for ~ 120 Pg. The air/sea exchange flux, in part biologically mediated, accounts for an additional ~90 Pg per year. Biological processes are therefore clearly the most important controls of atmospheric CO2 levels, with an equivalent of the entire atmospheric CO2 budget absorbed and released by the biosphere every few years. The terrestrial biosphere thus appears to have been the dominant interactive reservoir, at least on the annual to decadal time scales, with oceans likely taking over on centennial to millennial time scales.”

Phil R
Reply to  Science or Fiction
February 4, 2017 9:12 pm

Science or Fiction,
Erm… I thing the irrefutable evidence that the paper was based on misleading, ‘unverified’ data is that the misleading, ‘unverified’ data has also gone missing.

Science or Fiction
Reply to  Phil R
February 5, 2017 12:51 am

Scientific papers should be traceable in every step to the measured data.
In my profession I would be put behind bars if I behaved like Karl et co.
Isn´t there a law prohibiting government employees from doing these kind of things.

drednicolson
Reply to  Phil R
February 5, 2017 9:10 am

Just because there’s a law, doesn’t mean it will be obeyed. Or that the people who are supposed to enforce it, will do so.

davideisenstadt
Reply to  Science or Fiction
February 5, 2017 4:14 am

In this case, the data you request is, in fact Karl’s own admission.

Science or Fiction
Reply to  davideisenstadt
February 5, 2017 6:37 am

What I request is the irrefutable evidence that was shown to The Mail on Sunday.

February 4, 2017 5:16 pm

Anyone who’s been following this stuff, and has a lukewarm IQ, knows that Karl’s so-called “Pause Buster” paper is bullshit.

Reply to  Steve Case
February 4, 2017 9:23 pm

And the Science Magazine editorial staff that worked the review and approval process should all be fired and new management hired.

Reply to  Steve Case
February 5, 2017 1:23 am

Absolutely. But when it was first published I pointed out the flaws BTL on the Guardian.
Most responses were, “We have to trust the experts”.
Some people just yearn for a Strongman to follow. Even in intellectual pursuits.

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  M Courtney
February 5, 2017 4:57 am

Especially if they agree with him.
Those experts who say there is nothing to worry about from CO2 at 400 ppm, indeed that it’s a good thing, wouldn’t find the same degree of deference at the Guardian.

tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 5:18 pm

Another David Rose uber beat-up, calculated to bounce around the echo-chambers.
Here is the guts of the story from the Daily Mail: “A final, approved version has still not been issued.”
That’s it. That’s what this is all about. SMFH.
If the “final, approved version” differed substantially, then and only then there might be a news-worthy story. It won’t, but that doesn’t matter to alt-truthers like Rose.

Janice Moore
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 5:41 pm

Since you obviously don’t get it, McLd., here’s the David Rose for Those in a Hurry version:

Now,

more than two years after

the Pausebuster paper was submitted to Science, the new version of GHCN is still undergoing testing.
Moreover, the GHCN software was afflicted by serious bugs. They caused it to become so ‘unstable’ that every time the raw temperature readings were run through the computer, it gave different results. The new, bug-free version of GHCN has still not been approved and issued. It is, Dr Bates said, ‘significantly different’ from that used by Mr Karl and his co-authors. …
‘… the computer used to process the software ha{s} suffered a complete failure.’
The reason for the failure is unknown, but it means

the Pausebuster paper can never be replicated or verified by other scientists.

That is, in a nutshell (leaving out a lot of significant detail to avoid confusing you), what this is all about.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 5:44 pm

Plus Karl’s violation of NOAA’s internal procedures.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 5:52 pm

Thank you, Mr. Knights — very good.
ADDITION to above (hoo, boy, sure hope ol’ McL. can handle this much information):

Not only had Mr Karl and his colleagues failed to follow any of the formal procedures required to approve and archive their data, they had used a ‘highly experimental early run’ of a programme that tried to combine two previously separate sets of records.

(above David Rose article excerpt)
(btw: re: your recent clever coining of “agnorant” (for arrogant and ignorant at the same time) — very nice 🙂 )

Hivemind
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 7:35 pm

“..can never be replicated or verified by other scientists.”
In other words, NOAA isn’t practicing real science.

Reply to  Janice Moore
February 5, 2017 5:20 am

Thank you for “Climate Fraud for Dummies” run-down. I appreciate it.

Reply to  Janice Moore
February 6, 2017 2:50 pm

You don’t need to replicate that fake Pausebuster to show that it is false. Proof is in my comment of February 4th at 9:04 pm. The only data set needed is UAH temperature curve for December 2016.

catweazle666
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 5:53 pm

THIS isn’t “Another David Rose uber beat-up, calculated to bounce around the echo-chambers.” Mcleod, you disingenuous little man.
This is straighrt from the horse’s mouth.
https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/04/climate-scientists-versus-climate-data/
Read it and weep, it’s all up for you frauds.

catweazle666
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 5:56 pm

THIS isn’t “Another David Rose uber beat-up, calculated to bounce around the echo-chambers.” Mcleod.
This is straight from the horse’s mouth.
https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/04/climate-scientists-versus-climate-data/
Read it and weep.

Nigel S
Reply to  catweazle666
February 5, 2017 1:43 am

If you need cheering up after that read this, Dr Curry’s amicus brief in MM’s case against Mark Steyn.
‘Dr. Mann has transgressed scientific norms and offended First Amendment principles by bringing a defamation claim against Appellants for their pointed criticism of his scientific methodology. Dr. Mann’s suit is unsupportable both because of his behavior toward his critics, particularly amicus curiae Dr. Curry, which demonstrates that the debate over climate science is often contentious and because Dr. Mann engages in the debate often to silence rather than to illuminate. The Court ought not be party to stifling debate.’
https://cei.org/sites/default/files/2017.01.25%20Br.%20of%20Amicus%20Dr.%20Judith%20A.%20Curry%20Nos.%2014-cv-101%2014-cv-126%20%28D.C.%29.pdf

Reply to  catweazle666
February 5, 2017 8:18 am

Nigel, the breif is on behalf of CEI/NR, requesting an en banc rehearing of the erroneously denied appeal of the trial judge’s failure to applynyhe DC AntiSLAPP. Steyn severed and wants to go to trial. That is pending resolution of this.

Athlete
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 6:17 pm

Apparently you’re comfortable with “settled science” based on “possible artifacts”. You can’t make this stuff up.

Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 6:27 pm

If an ENTIRE DATABASE calls BullS**t, maybe, just maybe, it’s about blatant manipulation… Is that “alt-truthy” enough for you to realize your argument is on the ground and spitting teeth?

clipe
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 6:30 pm

Ah! you learned a new phrase…alt-truther. Do you wear a pant-suit by any chance?

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 7:02 pm

tony mcleod February 4, 2017 at 5:18 pm
” “A final, approved version has still not been issued.””
You need to re- think. NOAA is not allowed to publish a unapproved version
The data is lost there can be no approved version. Are you naturally stupid or do you take a pill in the morning.
Sorry if this is bad manners but please turn on brain before operating mouth.
You are intelligent, start looking for a different and useful way to use that intelligence. Rhe world has to many real problems that need to be addressed, why do you waste your endeavor on a falsehood?
michael

afonzarelli
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 11:09 pm

Looks like tony’s head is in the (mc)clouds…

AndyG55
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 5, 2017 10:02 pm

I like to call my “McClod”, because a clod of dirt has about the same intelligence.
Its a good name for him.

Raven
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 7:10 pm

Another David Rose uber beat-up, calculated to bounce around the echo-chambers.

By “bounce around the echo-chambers”, do you mean like Cook et al 2013 . . the 97% paper?
If anyone can replicate the Cook paper or the Karl paper I expect everyone would be mightily impressed.

lapogus
Reply to  Raven
February 5, 2017 5:33 am

Let’s not forget Steig’s paper which created a fake warming trend across Antarctica, and Nature’s brazen promotion of this prior to Copenhagen in 2009. http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2011/2/8/steigs-method-massacred.html

bit chilly
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 8:29 pm

so why was the original version submitted ? particularly with the problems highlighted with software and hardware that resulted in a computer “breaking”.
your last line is very telling ,surmising there will be no difference without YOU having any evidence.however, in line with typical climate “science” i do expect the new version to show more warming, it has to ,to keep the tax payer sucking leech scam going.

Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 1:32 am

But this isn’t the first time. Remember Climategate.
That exposed fabricated results that were rushed out before a Climate conference too.
How often do you need to be deceived?

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 6:07 am

What matters is that the pre-Paris version differs so markedly from reality.

John Harmsworth
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 9:06 pm

Congratulations Tony!You are the equal of Karl in complete lack of personal integrity. He is a failed scientist ,a political hack and a sellout opportunist. Sleep well, your horrible anti-humanist cause is drowning
in it’s own diseased shit!

Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 5:22 pm

The scandal has disturbing echoes of the ‘Climategate’ affair … thousands of emails between climate scientists suggested they had manipulated and hidden data. Some were British experts at the influential Climatic Research Unit at the University of East Anglia. …

(above article by David Rose)
Indeed, it does.

From: Phil Jones
To: ray bradley ,mann@xxxxx.xxx, mhughes@xxxx.xxx
Subject: Diagram for WMO Statement
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 13:31:15 +0000
Cc: k.briffa@xxx.xx.xx,t.osborn@xxxx.xxx
Dear Ray, Mike and Malcolm,
Once Tim’s got a diagram here we’ll send that either later today or
first thing tomorrow.
I’ve just completed Mike’s Nature trick of adding in the real temps
to each series for the last 20 years (ie from 1981 onwards) amd from
1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline. …
Cheers
Phil
Prof. Phil Jones
Climatic Research Unit Telephone +44 (0) xxxxx
School of Environmental Sciences Fax +44 (0) xxxx
University of East Anglia
Norwich Email p.jones@xxxx.xxx
NR4 7TJ
UK From: Jonathan Overpeck
To: “Michael E. Mann”
Subject: letter to Senate
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 16:49:31 -0700
Cc: Caspar M Ammann , Raymond Bradley , Keith Briffa , Tom Crowley , Malcolm Hughes , Phil Jones , mann@xxxxx.xxx, jto@xxxxx.xx.xxx, omichael@xxxxx.xxx, Tim Osborn , Kevin Trenberth , Tom Wigley
Hi all – I’m not too comfortable with this, … I think it would be more appropriate for the AGU or some other scientific org to do this – … I’m not sure we want to go down this path. It would be much better for the AGU etc to do it. …
Cheers, Peck

(https://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/19/breaking-news-story-hadley-cru-has-apparently-been-hacked-hundreds-of-files-released/ )

Roger Knights
February 4, 2017 5:23 pm

Let the hearings begin. And the congressionally mandated debates and independent analyses.

markl
February 4, 2017 5:23 pm

And so it begins………..

Editor
February 4, 2017 5:24 pm

I predict that we will see more and more of this type of whistle-blowing — in CliScii, coral reef studies, social sciences, etc — as the terrible pressure to :”conform or else” is seen to have evaporated with the change in government viewpoints.
Those not familiar with the issue can read mine essay touching on it at Journalistic Failure: Revkin on Watts/Peterson — June 14, 2015.
Anthony Watts has been totally vindicated in this matter. ClimateGate Two — let’s see if the floodgates open now that Bates has spoken up.

Editor
Reply to  Kip Hansen
February 4, 2017 5:26 pm

gads! — my essay….
For a more thorough discussion of the Karl/Peterson paper itself, see here.

Nigel S
Reply to  Kip Hansen
February 5, 2017 1:53 am

The alpha version of spellcheck forsooth!

tony mcleod
Reply to  Kip Hansen
February 4, 2017 5:35 pm

“floodgates”, “world leaders duped”, “bombshell”. Lol. Must be a bit of a slow news day. You guys are getting desperate.
Here is some real news:
https://forum.arctic-sea-ice.net/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=119.0;attach=41368;image

Janice Moore
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 5:47 pm

Sure, McL., whatever. I’ll take your “Look! A squirrel!” and raise you one “Look! A shipwreck!”comment image

tony mcleod
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 6:10 pm

Typical, Janet. Your so invested in your alternative “facts” you can’t tell the difference between a squirrel and an Arctic sea-ice death spiral. Lets chat about it in September.

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 7:15 pm

tony mcleod February 4, 2017 at 5:35 pm
Here is some real news: https://climatism.wordpress.com/2017/01/20/russian-icebreakers-stuck-in-the-arctic-global-warming/
http://rbth.com/news/2017/01/31/new-russian-icebreaker-sets-off-for-debut-arctic-voyage_692621
there guy I fixed it for you do try to tell the truth a bit more often. The jig is up.
michael

Pamela Gray
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 7:21 pm

Meanwhile in more important news, Janice! I have great news! About a long – time best friend!

Janice Moore
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 7:47 pm

PAMELA!!

When will it be?? (if I’ve guessed correctly)
Oh, boy, Pamela — I’m SO GLAD you wrote here. DO write just a bit more — even if cryptically…
HAPPY, SO HAPPY, for you (hoping I guessed right, I mean!)!!
Yaaaaayyyyy! 🙂
Sure wish I could be there. Hm. Maybe….. — is it after the passes are clear of snow/ice?

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 8:18 pm

Pamela Gray February 4, 2017 at 7:21 pm
best hopes and wishes
but remember, none over us are the people of the past. Wear armor.
michael

Pamela Gray
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 8:20 pm

Not who you think. This is a wonderful person who has always been my shoulder to lean on for 12 years and he sometimes leaned on my shoulders But we both were at different places till now. A decent family man raising adopted grandkids. Just like my grandparents did with me. Needed a shoulder to lean on recently and it turned out we were finally on the same page. Who knew?

Janice Moore
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 8:29 pm

Oh, Pamela — HOW COOL. After twelve years (!) your paths have finally come together (physically, I mean, not just words on screen/phone). Raising his grandchildren — GOTTA be a fine man (and I trust your judgment on that issue too, of course!) I’ll be praying for the best for you, two!! Very happy for you. PLEASE KEEP ME (US) POSTED!
Janice SMILING!
#(:))
(I LOVE hearing of such things — God really does have some pretty amazing grace for each one of us, pretty amazing…)

bit chilly
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 8:38 pm

arctic sea ice death spiral. a phrase one would associate with children, not a so called member of a professional field . mr mcleod you need to get a grip on reality.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 8:53 pm

“tony mcleod February 4, 2017 at 6:10 pm”
Your friend Griff has made the same claim. I bet him and now I bet you a donation of $50 to WUWT that you and Griff will be wrong in September. That’s US$100 for me to lose.Put your money where you alarm is.

Richard M
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 9:09 pm

Tony, when are you going to accept the reality of the AMO and its effects on the Arctic. Your denial of real science is getting tedious.

tony mcleod
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 9:35 pm

Mike ‘alt truth’ Morlock says:
“Here is some real news: https://climatism.wordpress.com/2017/01/20/russian-icebreakers-stuck-in-the-arctic-global-warming/
Another total beat-up, reverberating around the blogosphere because it hinted at more ice. Bunkum of the first water Mike but you and your fellow alt-truth travelers lapped it up.
Eric ‘Clickbait’ Worrall says:
“this crossing hasn’t been attempted since soviet times – perhaps the risk of getting stuck in the ice is too high for this route to be a regular event.”
The reality is so different. The reason they undertook the voyage is that the ice is so thin and fragile.
From the article: “The ease of the sailing is seen as a sign that climate warming in the Arctic can open up shopping lanes even in midwinter.”
Captain: “very optimistic about them getting through the ice within a week’s time”.
Nothing to see, move along becomes:
Ice-breaker scandal, ships frozen in place until June, another killer blow to climate alarmists.

AndyG55
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 9:37 pm

roflmao.. McClod, you are grabbing from the bottom the swamp there.
Seems that you DENY the science that shows the first 3/4 of the Holocene had much less sea ice.
Seems that you DENY the fact that the late 1970s was a peak in Arctic sea ice up there with near the end of the LIA.
Seems you DENY the existence of the AMO.
It seems that you are a CLIMATE CHANGE DÉÑÌÊR.

tony mcleod
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 9:48 pm

Richard M February 4, 2017 at 9:09 pm
Tony, when are you going to accept the reality of the AMO and its effects on the Arctic. Your denial of real science is getting tedious.
Richard, when are you going to realize the AMO is just a poorly understood, weakly defined signal and that there is bugger-all evidence it has any affect on the Arctic.
Watching all you guys clutching at any straw in the vain hope that one day the graphs will not ALL be trending upwards – that is becoming tedious.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 9:56 pm

“tony mcleod February 4, 2017 at 9:48 pm”
Which is exactly what you are doing. I think you are from Queensland, now that explains a few things.

ralfellis
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 6:01 am

Janice – love the imitation Cyrillic name for the ship.
Bravo.
R

Richard M
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 6:34 am

When faced with the reality of the AMO driving Arctic temperatures all we get from Tony is denial. The logic is pretty easy. Why is the Arctic warming and not the Antarctic? There is no AMO in the SH. It is also well know that water melts ice faster than air. We even have evidence of cyclic ice loss during the LIA.
Add to that the almost perfect correlation between the ice loss and the AMO and this is not hard to understand unless you are living in denial. Tony is becoming a laughing stock.

drednicolson
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 9:46 am

By September, I expect Arctic sea ice will be doing just fine, and Ol’ Tony will push his impending death-spiral forward another year.

Glenn999
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 10:58 am

tony mcclod
riddle me this
what is the difference between a squirrel and an Arctic sea-ice death spiral?

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 2:01 pm

tony mcleod February 4, 2017 at 9:35 pm
tony there is no such thing as “alt facts”
just facts.
1 ice
2 two icebreaker frozen in.
the rest is just spin. self serving opinion on your part.
no science on your part
but it is funny to see you squirm, you talk like a corrupt politician.
michael

MarkW
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 6, 2017 9:32 am

Yet more evidence that mcLod has no idea what data is.
Whatever today’s data is proves that we are all going to die. Unless the data isn’t going his way, then it’s just weather, like it was for all of last year.

myNym
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 7, 2017 5:02 am

mccleod, upstream, said..
”You guys are getting desperate.”
And..
“Your denial of real science is getting tedious.”
And..
“Watching all you guys clutching at any straw in the vain hope that one day the graphs will not ALL be trending upwards” […]
The Earth was once a glowing hot ball of magma. 500 million years ago atmospheric CO2 was at 8000ppm. 53 million years ago the Arctic Ocean was a swamp. In the greater view, it is obvious that the Earth is cooling, and that high levels of CO2 did nothing to prevent that cooling.
The Catastrophic Man-Made Glow Bull Warming due to the release of (much-needed) CO2 meme is dead. Move on. Find another ox to gore.

Bob
February 4, 2017 5:32 pm

NOAA denizens like Karl and Peterson show us that government science is political by definition. Karl is a political operative, as is Peterson, Schmidt, and Hansen. The deserve to be fired and their pensions revoked. Their cheating is on the level of national crimes, and should be treated as such.

Roger Knights
February 4, 2017 5:43 pm

Does NOAA have an internal “inspector general”? If so, why didn’t he act? If not, it needs one. Anyway, a special prosecutor should be appointed to look into the agency. Ditto for the EPA, since Dr. Carlin has made similar charges to those of Dr. Bates.

R.S. Brown
Reply to  Roger Knights
February 4, 2017 9:37 pm

Roger,
NOAA, USGS, NASA, EPA, NPS and the Department of the Interior in
general have ALL been riding on the Climate frenzy bus the past decade.
They’ve woven a support net that includes major academic institutions,
NGOs and international agencies.
Long ago some of us noted in comments here and at Climate Audit that
a number of these American researches and Scientists needed to be
hit with subpoenas for their federally funded data, depositions for their
choices of methodology, and public under-oath questioning and testimony
in front of a bi-partisan Congressional committee.
A lot of the academic “scientists” doing federally funded work have tried to
hide behind “academic freedom” arguments to protect their data from
public scrutiny. Some claim their work has “proprietary” properties.
Inspector Generals can’t really go beyond their own agency’s or department’s
parameters. That limitation leads us to…
CONGRESS !

Owen in GA
Reply to  Roger Knights
February 5, 2017 8:59 am

Generally, the inspector general system during the Obama administration was castrated and completely ineffective. Inspectors general are appointment by the president or the cabinet secretary depending on the agency and are supposed to keep everyone honest despite the political winds. Something like 40% of the positions weren’t even filled during the Obama years, and the ones that were filled acted more like Soviet political officers than inspectors general.
I am waiting to see if the Trump administration will correct this and give the inspectors general the teeth to really do their mission. If they don’t, then the president isn’t really serious about draining the swamp.

BallBounces
February 4, 2017 5:46 pm

Among the sober-minded there’s little doubt that the climate science cart is being pulled by the political horse. Fortunately, Donald Trump’s team will work to MSGA.

Bill Illis
February 4, 2017 5:47 pm

“A Miracle has happened.”

clipe
Reply to  Bill Illis
February 4, 2017 6:36 pm

chuckle

kim
Reply to  clipe
February 5, 2017 1:27 am

Give America Great Data Again.
==========

higley7
February 4, 2017 5:52 pm

It’s open season now on liberal hogs that have been eating out of the government trough for much too long. If the gentleman is treated honorably as he should, then we will see more people coming forward. Yay!

clipe
February 4, 2017 5:53 pm

“Left, blowing up the graph show is disappears in 1961 artfully hidden behind the other colours. Right, the reason? Because this is what it shows after 1961, a dramatic decline in global temperatures”
Left
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/04/23/3CD7C58C00000578-4192182-image-m-95_1486249428566.jpg
Right
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/04/23/3CD7C72500000578-4192182-image-m-97_1486249524213.jpg

ralfellis
Reply to  clipe
February 5, 2017 6:15 am

Thanks, Clipe.
I did not understand this bit in the DM article. Does this imply that the green temperature plot was deliberately truncated to cover the cooling? But the dates don’t appear to match. And what are the datasets being used?
This bit could have more explanation.
R

Reply to  ralfellis
February 5, 2017 8:26 am

Yes. This the infamous hide the decline. There is a youtube video of Richard Muller lecturing on it. Worth watching.

ralfellis
Reply to  ralfellis
February 5, 2017 10:45 am

Oh, you mean this was YAD-061 from Yamal.
The most influential tree in the world.
Yes, I remember that one.
R

February 4, 2017 5:54 pm

Well done and thank you Dr. Bates…

Admin
February 4, 2017 5:54 pm

Different values every time it runs is a very bad sign – it either means the code is using “uninitialised variables, which start with random numbers, or that the code is somehow picking up part of its product as an input.
Either way, these defects effectively turn the code into a random number generator.

Felflames
Reply to  Eric Worrall
February 4, 2017 6:15 pm

GIGO
Garbage in, Garbage Out.
One of the very first rules of Data Processing.

MarkW
Reply to  Eric Worrall
February 6, 2017 9:37 am

I thought they made minor changes to the input data for each run.

Roger Knights
February 4, 2017 5:55 pm

Calling Judge Judy!

February 4, 2017 5:58 pm

Who will be Trump’s science advisor (Director of the Office of Science and Technology)? That can be good for thought.
I know there is some discussion of some computer science kind of person, but . . .
How about Curry or Lindzen?

Roger Knights
Reply to  John Whitman
February 4, 2017 9:34 pm

Or Rud Istvan.

Reply to  John Whitman
February 5, 2017 7:46 am

There are rumors that DJT is focusing in William Happer.

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  George Daddis
February 5, 2017 8:13 am

No surprise, Time uses the D-word for Gelernter and Happer:
http://time.com/4653507/donald-trump-science-advisor/

Glacierman
February 4, 2017 6:00 pm

Where is Mosher?

Reply to  Glacierman
February 4, 2017 6:11 pm

[snip lose the accusations -mod]

Glacierman
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 4, 2017 6:30 pm

Pathetic.

Sweet Old Bob
Reply to  Glacierman
February 4, 2017 6:27 pm

Down at the pub with Griff ? Drowning their sorrows ?

Reply to  Glacierman
February 4, 2017 9:15 pm

I make a guess at North or South Korea?
Does not matter which, they can be homogenised.

kim
Reply to  Geoff Sherrington
February 7, 2017 8:02 am

::grin::
====

angech
Reply to  Glacierman
February 5, 2017 3:07 am

Who?

February 4, 2017 6:02 pm

“The report claimed that the ‘pause’ or ‘slowdown’ in global warming in the period since 1998 – revealed by UN scientists in 2013 – never existed,”
Problem. They never argued this.
2nd problem. Their treatment of the SST has been independently verified using Satelllite data, Argo Data,
and Buoy Data.
3rd problem.. GHCN is a red herring in all of this as is Pha

charles nelson
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 4, 2017 6:46 pm

Jan 4th 2017. Scientific American
Various studies have debunked the idea of a pause, or hiatus in global warming – the contention that global surface temperatures have stopped….

Juan Slayton
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 4, 2017 6:50 pm

Who is “they”?

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 4, 2017 7:02 pm

…and you were a part of the NOAA to witness this how?

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Pamela Gray
February 4, 2017 7:03 pm

…meant fo Mosher.

Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 4, 2017 7:14 pm

Mosh writes, “Problem. They never argued this.”
Huh?
Have you been drinking too much this Saturday night Mosh?
http://i63.tinypic.com/347zm0o.png

Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
February 4, 2017 7:17 pm

The cropped screen shot (above) is the final 2 paragraphs of the Karl, et al, Science, 2015 “PauseBuster” paper under discussion.

Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
February 4, 2017 8:05 pm

It’s a typical Mosher fallacy distraction, where he dices up some unknown meaning for a word in play.
Typical straw man or “red herring” distraction fallacy.
Then, Mosher will follow up replies by further distracting any arguments put forward.
Which reminds me of taking children to birthday parties at Chuck-E-Cheese, where they play the “whack a mole” game and others.

Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
February 4, 2017 9:34 pm

Nick,
Uh your desparation in trying to defend the undefensible Karl PauseBuster paper is showing.
“… it is virtually impossible to replicate the results in K15.”
http://i64.tinypic.com/4uw03r.jpg
Give it up Nick. It’s collapsing before your eyes.

kim
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
February 5, 2017 1:26 am

Oh boy, ATheoK, I just put this up @ the Bish’s before I saw your comment. There is something distinctly clownish, evil clownish if you will, about all this:
Super Abund Karls
Could be Chuckie, Chees, or Charles;
Pay now for the quarrels.
==========

Hans-Georg
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
February 5, 2017 10:18 am

In Germany, especially with us, the drink is called Moschd. And is a very high-percentage mixed drink of apples and pears. There is a direct comparison to Karls Pause buster datas. He compared apples with pears and took the rotten. Bad Moschd.

Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
February 6, 2017 5:58 pm

LLets take up that screen shot. He is using the super El Nino of 1998 to calculate global temperature. This is impermissible. ENSO is comprised of pairs of El Ninos and La Ninas which is why computer smoothing works to clear the background. It is fairly certain that they originate from the Indo-Pacific Warm Pool, but this I cannot say of the super El Nino. It is twice as high as the five El Nino peaks belonging to ENSO in the eighties and nineties. Its peak is also narrower and it is not accompanied by a La Nina. It came and departed at the end of the nineties but left behind a warm batch of water that raised the temperature at the beginning of the 21st century by 0.4 degrees Celsius over the eighties and the nineties. This created a number of “warmest ever” temperature claims. Hansen, for example, noted that nine out of ten warmest temperatures in the world all belonged to the first decade of the twenty-first century. To him that proved it was all caused by the greenhouse effect which is impossible because the elevation took only three years to complete. As soon as this warm patch wwas in place it started to cool because it had no energy source. From 2002 to 2012 there w2as an steady cooling that lowered global temperature by a tenth of a degree Celsius in only ten years. Beyond 2012 the warming curve turns up again in preparation for the El Nino of 2015/2016 that was on the works. That cooling amounts to one degree Celsius per century, higher than the observed warming of an entire twentieth century that had just concluded. Warmists are dreaming of a return of warming after the current El Nino is finished but what we expect to get is a continuation of cooling interrupted by the El Nino. You can judge where it will end up by extending the straight line between 2002 and 2012 beyond the last El Nino. The bottom limit to this cooling will be original low level temperature that existed in the eighties and nineties before the IPCC got started with their fake warming there. Arno Arrak

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 4, 2017 7:23 pm

Steven Mosher February 4, 2017 at 6:02 pm
“Their treatment of the SST has been independently verified using Satelllite data, Argo Data,
and Buoy Data.”
Then why write the paper Etc
oh do answer.
michael
remember “cannot be reproduced.”
I hear ice cream truck Co. are hiring.
michael

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 9:15 pm

remember “cannot be reproduced.”
David Rose lies. Bates did not say that. And it isn’t true.

AndyG55
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 9:43 pm

Dodgy Bros want there used car lot back Mosh.

charles nelson
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 9:47 pm

Michael, it takes a basic understanding of physics to run an ice cream truck…you know basic stuff like temperature? Otherwise the stuff melts. I wouldn’t let one of these Warmist Scientists near my ice cream truck!

Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 9:48 pm

Nick,
See my reply to you above. got misplaced on the wrong reply.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 4, 2017 9:54 pm

“charles nelson February 4, 2017 at 9:47 pm”
They can’t like keep the product cool, interface with customers and play jingles all at the same time. That can’t be modeled, too many variables. The only constant is money.

AndyG55
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 4, 2017 9:41 pm

It would be lovely to see emails between BEST (a non-profit, far-left, AGW support organisation) and NOAA and CRU. 🙂

kim
Reply to  AndyG55
February 5, 2017 1:21 am

Well, apparently Muller’s daughter has snapped to the fact that the climate hyperbole was the problem. There are some people’s daughters whose papers I may have to start reading again.
=============

Editor
Reply to  Steven Mosher
February 5, 2017 9:43 am

Mosh writes:

2nd problem. Their treatment of the SST has been independently verified using Satelllite data, Argo Data,
and Buoy Data.

Is this before or after the Buoy Data was adjusted upward to match the “more respected” data from shipping’s bucket and engine intake data?
In my reading of Karl et al, that was one of the biggest red flags in the paper. While it may have been expedient to adjust a single dataset instead of what are probably several data sets from shipping interests, it meant complications in dealing with buoy data for years to come, to say nothing about changes in ratios of bucket/intake data vs buoy data.

Ross King
February 4, 2017 6:02 pm

However, this — if verified — together with ‘ClimateGate’ e-mails, really does irredemably expose the egregious scams to which we tax-payers, World-wide, have been exposed by the Politico-Scientific charlatans for their nefarious and self-serving purposes.
This has the makings of a the *ultimate* “Tipping-Point” … a complete Crisis in Scientific Credibility, beyond which all funding from the public purse should STOP DEAD AS OF THIS INSTANT. President Tump … lead the way!
Stops until we start again afresh, with reinstating proper scientific-research-establishments TARGETED WITH NULL-HYPOTHESIZING ANTHROPOGENIC WARMING — IN THE PALEO-CLIMATIC CONTEXT — AS A SINE QUA NON FOR FURTHER PUBLIC FUNDING. [Someone pls enhance my text here.]
it’s a matter on a par with the Inquisition & Galileo. (And who was RIGHT!))

Janice Moore
Reply to  Ross King
February 4, 2017 7:29 pm

Okay, Mr. King, here you go.

It’s a matter on a par with The Inquisition & Galileo. (And who was RIGHT!)

FTOP_T
Reply to  Ross King
February 4, 2017 8:48 pm

The new regime can start with the $350MM sent to Berkeley.

exisle
February 4, 2017 6:07 pm

Judith Curry has posted the full story at her blog Climate Etc:
https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/04/climate-scientists-versus-climate-data/
Complete with diagrams and the backstory. Great stuff and thank you Judy!

Ross King
Reply to  exisle
February 4, 2017 6:53 pm

HEAR, HEAR!!!
Isn’t it reassuring to know that these so-called “Climate-Scientists” have a distinct propensity to squirrel-away their data, obtained as a result of public-funding (so it’s *ours*, right?) in order to be able to fiddle the data-sets (sorry! — homogenize them) beyond scrutiny and trot-out new “findings” based on the ‘remediated’ data to counter the latest skeptical-challenge. It’s reminiscent of the Conjurers’ Arts … new revelations to-order!
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK JUDITH! Mann’s ad-hominem attack on you [I can’t find the quote] speaks far more to his insecurity than yours!!!! A growing insecurity, perhaps! His Credibility Index (my subjective measure), withers by the incoming report, including his doubling-down on critics … such as Mark Steyn. (A propensity for litigiousness sits-ill with a supposed Man[n] of Science; it bespeaks a certain …. desperation?
The frantic clinging to the flotsam & jetsam of a discredited, and useless scientific wreck ?)

Reply to  exisle
February 4, 2017 11:19 pm

Dr. Bates cites [at the curry blog] the NOAA CDR of total solar irradiance as an example of a well-documented data set. Unfortunately, the data are deeply flawed and the methodology dubious, so the data are not usable and should be an embarrassment for NOAA. I discuss the issue here:
http://www.leif.org/research/EUV-F107-and-TSI-CDR-HAO.pdf and in shorter form here http://www.leif.org/research/EUV-Magnetic-Field.pdf
My conclusion:
• There is no support for a variable TSI ‘Background’
• The current Climate Data Record [CDR] is not helpful to Climate Research
• The CDR should not be based on obsolete solar activity data
• I expect strong ‘push-back’ from entrenched ‘settled science’, but urge [at least] the solar community to be honest about the issue

Pamela Gray
Reply to  lsvalgaard
February 5, 2017 6:15 am

Wow! Another instance of poor science at NOAA! Which reveals a horrible flaw in post graduate programs leading to a research degree. There are standards for research design and replication that now seem moth balled in some dusty attic. Candidates stream through a broken dam unfettered by any requirement that they know what makes for gold standard research practices. And I think I know why. The drive for money has sped past ethics and quality at the speed of light. Alas, there are few if any ways to oversee granting and doctoral committees. Their role is to advance their pet projects and be damned with competing proposals, even if those proposals rise to excellence. It is a sick infected system and I cannot envision an end to it.

February 4, 2017 6:12 pm

Is Tom Karl in “legal jeopardy”. It would be so good for “science” if he was.

Raven
Reply to  Bill Illis
February 4, 2017 7:16 pm

You mean like the “social cost of Tom Karl”?
I reckon that could fly for the very same reasoning.

Reply to  Bill Illis
February 5, 2017 1:48 pm

BE, I thought about this and did some law checking. Couple hours worth. I unfortunately do not think he is in any legal jeopardy. The Information Quality Act applies to NOAA, not Karl personally. He is not a professor abusing an NSF grant; he is a government employee. His pension is secure under law; it has been granted. The Congressional subpoena contempt originated from the NOAA top administrator, not Karl.
The main value here is probably political, given the new administration. Trump tweets fake climate data fake climate news. Rep. Smith reopens the contemp of congress inquiry demanding emails between Karl and Holdren. New admin cleans NOAA house. Refocus NASA on space and shut GISS based on the Tony Heller analyses that Myron Ebell has. That sort of thing.

February 4, 2017 6:22 pm

I have literally just made some popcorn!

Janice Moore
Reply to  Jimmy Haigh
February 4, 2017 7:30 pm

🙂

John F. Hultquist
February 4, 2017 6:24 pm

“… the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure.
Also, “process the software” seems an odd way of saying whatever it was intended to mean.
This sounds like gross incompetence or stupendously stupid. Or it could be a criminal act.
I have an external backup drive on a Win-10 system. I wonder what they were doing and what with?

AndyG55
Reply to  John F. Hultquist
February 4, 2017 9:51 pm

Very odd indeed.
A 1st year high school student mistake……once only, if they have even the slightest brains !!!
The academic research software I used to work with was stored in several different places
On site, and off site. Always version numbered etc etc
Main data was stored on a read only (for us , anyway) multi-redundancy RAID server.
Working data always backed up to external drives that were disconnected at night.
Tom Karl can’t have thought his work was important enough to back up..
Or it was DELIBERATE. !!

MarkW
Reply to  AndyG55
February 6, 2017 9:42 am

Every major system I have worked on had procedures in place to automatically back up everything.
That was even true for desk top computers.
Even small companies that I have worked for (less than 20 employees) knew the importance of backing up everything.

Reply to  John F. Hultquist
February 4, 2017 11:08 pm

“This sounds like gross incompetence”
Or just David Rose. If you read Bates own account at Climate Etc, he just says that a computer failed (it happens) and someone made a joke. There is no serious claim that anything was lost.

kim
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 1:17 am

I dunno, it’s sort of fun wiping the sweat off an argument he’s rode hard and abandoned wet.
=======

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 1:42 am

“Anthony Watts February 4, 2017 at 11:23 pm”
He is ex-CSIRO, these types don’t give up easily even in the face of real evidence.

John Robertson
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 11:18 am

May I respectfully disagree Mr watts?
Nick is doing fine work here,as he always does.
Defending the indefensible and digging ever deeper.
Soon he may match Brad Keyes in a level of satire and parody of the “Very Model of a major climatologist apologist”.

Ricardo
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 9:51 pm

Anthony, I hear your frustration but please don’t cut Nick off. For people like me who don’t necessarily understand it all at the first sitting, Nick’s comments are really useful.
They let me know, in the simplest terms possible, what is not the correct argument and he makes the most “interesting” strawmen.
Saves a lot of time for me.
BTW just wanted to add my thanks for the brilliant work you do. I rarely, if ever comment. But I always read. Every day.
Thank you.

...and Then There's Physics
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 6, 2017 5:44 am

Anthony,

Nick, it’s time for you to just STFU

Indeed, because if he doesn’t you might have to eventually acknowledge that your BOMBSHELL isn’t quite the BOMBSHELL you thought it was. That would, I imagine, be quite inconvenient.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 6, 2017 10:05 am

Anthony,
Nick Stokes is good for WUWT as a kind of AGW consensus foil needed to make a dramatic contrast to the merits skeptic position.
Keep him.
John

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 7, 2017 1:23 pm

Anthony Watts,
Your advice for Nick to STFU I agree with because he has got in too deep and is now trivialising.
The danger is that readers might think that you are giving an order, not advice.
My opinion, FWIW, is that Nick should not be shut down. He can give cogent, informed, useful views on matters of interest, a different slant that can be useful. But often frustrating.
Frustration is not grounds for a ban. But of course, it is your blog, your say.
Cheers. Geoff

Taphonomic
Reply to  John F. Hultquist
February 6, 2017 10:23 am

While I can not say for certain what is meant, I have seen instances where the same program (code) gives different results on different computers due to how the computers handle things like rounding, precision, etc. A project I worked on required that reports provide the code and identify exactly what computer was used.

February 4, 2017 6:25 pm

The rats desert the sinking ship. How convenient to bring this forward now. Why didn’t he publish a piece on WUWT while he was still at NOAA? He had to know that telling his bosses wasn’t wgoing to change anything. This proves to me that his current action is simply self-serving.
You will see a lot more of this crap as we move forward. Unfortunately, they will all sail away in lifeboats full of taxpayers money as they gather their pensions. Nobody will be held accountable and that will be the greatest failure of the Trump regime.
If you are really going to drain the swamp it should be through a channel dug directly to jail or a Board that penalizes, including removal of pension. These lung fish, otherwise known as bureaucrats, will survive the draining.
I also told Myron Ebell directly that if they don’t continue to monitor those remaining they will not change, or implement anything. They will just wait, as they always do, until the furore blows over and it will be business as usual. Reagan took a step in the right direction when he fired the traffic controllers. However, it didn’t change much in the long term, otherwise we wouldn’t be in this mess now.

Ross King
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 4, 2017 6:58 pm

Tim:
Better late than never?

Janice Moore
Reply to  Ross King
February 4, 2017 7:31 pm

Didn’t want to lose his job?

Reply to  Tim Ball
February 4, 2017 9:31 pm

Chances are that his hands have been tied giving evidence to the Lamar Smith committee or any number of activities that outsiders could not know about. Please be fair and give the guy credit for what some would see as justifiable though distasteful action. In a wide forum that would take guts.

kim
Reply to  Geoff Sherrington
February 5, 2017 1:19 am

I concur; there have long been reports of dissidence over this paper. I don’t suspect Bates of being late to the party.
=============

Editor
Reply to  Geoff Sherrington
February 5, 2017 9:51 am

Also, the timing provides a long enough passage of time so that the damage done by Karl et al is clearly visible. Had it been debunked before Paris, things would have continued on unchanged, as is, we’re now hyping an effort to limit warming to 1.5 degrees instead of 2.0 (Karl et al had to retreat on the rate of overall warming to get rid of the pause), and Obama has managed to redirect a substantial, but tolerable amount of money to fix a problem that doesn’t need fixing, and likely can’t be fixed by reducing CO2 emissions.

A C Osborn
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 3:52 am

Absolutely no point under the Obama Admin.

Randy in Ridgecrest
February 4, 2017 6:29 pm

“computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure”
Complete failure? By what, A sledge hammer?

Raven
Reply to  Randy in Ridgecrest
February 4, 2017 7:19 pm

Maybe they wiped it . . like with a cloth or something. 😉

jones
Reply to  Raven
February 4, 2017 8:30 pm

Heh….

AndyG55
Reply to  Raven
February 5, 2017 3:03 am

What was it the Hillary used ??

Raven
Reply to  Raven
February 5, 2017 5:46 am

Oh, yes.
The BleachBit people actually sell “Cloth or Something” for $3.00, or the autographed version for $5.00.
Hilarious.
http://www.bleachbit.org/cloth-or-something

lewispbuckingham
Reply to  Randy in Ridgecrest
February 4, 2017 8:20 pm

The CIA must examine the remains forensically to see if anything can be retrieved from the hard drive.
The results would cast a spotlight on the methods used, which may help others sort out the flaws in homogenisation that may not be self evident to other Bureaux of Meteorology.

angech
Reply to  lewispbuckingham
February 5, 2017 3:14 am

Wikileaks?

catweazle666
Reply to  Randy in Ridgecrest
February 5, 2017 4:05 pm

Professor Jones’ dog ate the hard disk?

AndyG55
Reply to  Randy in Ridgecrest
February 5, 2017 10:06 pm

There were EIGHT writers.
Either they all have back-ups of code and data………… .or
They NEVER examined that code and data.
Think about that. !!!!

MarkW
Reply to  Randy in Ridgecrest
February 6, 2017 9:45 am

Raven, I love it when a company is willing to show a sense of humor.

Pamela Gray
February 4, 2017 6:31 pm

Popcorn…margaritas…honest and bravery…speaking out against group-think! PERFECT!

February 4, 2017 6:40 pm

Gavin Schmidt of NASA GISS is hiding out? Where?
John

Reply to  John Whitman
February 4, 2017 7:03 pm

Where is the public wit of NASA GISS Gavin Schmidt for the last couple of months?
Is he hiding in a sanctuary city sheltering alarmist climate scientists who have undocumented climate data?
👏
John

Ricardo
Reply to  John Whitman
February 4, 2017 11:54 pm

I suspect that the inner offices of NOAA, GISS and a fair few research departments t some well known universities are starting to look a little like this.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O3aZgFvUJa0
It’s an old Heineken ad, that has previously been repurposed in loving memory of Arthur Andersen. (If I have “whoopsied ” the link, I apologise in advance.
It’s been making me chuckle since 2007, but it just kinda seems to ‘fit’ now

toorightmate
Reply to  John Whitman
February 4, 2017 7:21 pm

Gavin may be hiding out with Uma.
I think we should search behind a big stack of emails.

DDP
February 4, 2017 6:43 pm

‘There was no discussion about Paris.’
Since when has an order been up for discussion?

February 4, 2017 6:46 pm

Schmidt is hiding behind the decline.

Graham
February 4, 2017 6:56 pm

Liars, cheats and frauds infest the climate gravy train here, there and everywhere.

February 4, 2017 7:04 pm

I do not doubt Karl was the central figure (a Lieutenant in the climate mafia) in the scam at NOAA/NCEI, but it was quarterbacked from higher-up, most likely by John Holdren at the White House.
Holdren had his Lieutenants out in the field doing the dirty work: Karl, Schmidt, Trenberth, Santer… all highly placed government pseudoscientist hacks willing to sell their reputation for The Noble Cause and the accompanying fame and adulations from the White House.
John Holdren probably was the central, “go-to guy” to get Executive Editor Marcia McNutt to publish the Karl PauseBuster paper with a coordinated pal-review and to dispense with Science’s standards on data transparency and reproducibility.
Marcia McNutt no doubt was to be rewarded for her obsequience as Holdren’s follow-on in the Hillary Clinton WH as her Science Advisor. Oops!

Hans-Georg
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
February 5, 2017 10:33 am

And they thought they won the presidential election loosely. And then that ….. It must have driven them into the marrow of their bones. And I think there will be more. This was only the beginning of the flagpole.

February 4, 2017 7:06 pm

Wow!!!! I am really shocked !!! ( sarc) .

J Mac
February 4, 2017 7:07 pm

Thank You, Dr. John Bates!
Thank You for having the courage to speak the Truth, knowing you would be immediately be abused for this increasingly rare public display of integrity in science!

Not Chicken Little
February 4, 2017 7:08 pm

As an ordinary citizen who’s been interested in astronomy, physics, geology, biology and natural sciences my whole life I am both saddened and outraged at what seems to me to be a serious loss of integrity and honesty by far too many so-called scientists. The system has to run on “trust, but verify” – they are effectively killing the trust, and keeping others from verifying. I sincerely hope that a much-needed housecleaning to take out the trash is about to finally begin.

February 4, 2017 7:13 pm

It is what happens when you have scientists who are bureaucrats.
Bates is no hero. He just knows the ship is sinking. He would not be speaking out if Hillary Clinton was elected, otherwise he would have been more vocal earlier.

Reply to  Tim Ball
February 4, 2017 7:37 pm

We came that close to total disaster.

James Francisco
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 4, 2017 9:24 pm

Right on Tim. Can you imagine the great big aw sheet those guys had when they learned Trump was elected?

Roger Knights
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 4, 2017 9:42 pm

Bates immediately contacted Lamar Smith, although Smith didn’t mention his name, instead citing him as a high-level insider.

Steve Lohr
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 4, 2017 11:10 pm

Yes, i like the sinking ship idea. Bates saw the torpedo hit and knows what it means and moved to save himself. We won’t see the rest of the “rats” until the lower decks are flooded. Then we will see the real extent of fraud. Right now they are scurrying about looking for new hiding places. Much will be revealed I think.

kim
Reply to  Steve Lohr
February 5, 2017 1:12 am

Half a billion solar collectors would have bouyed up that boat. Bates was prudent; the story was out anyway, the article sad junk, progressively discredited. But the enslaving and cachectifying narrative would have steamed on had Hillary won, and the identity of the whistleblower would have been better left unpiped. I’d congratulate Bates’ efforts, whatever the timing, and thank him for his courage.
Yep, that boat’s a slaver. Note carefully, insurors.
=================

Richard Eric Pound
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 2:46 pm

I think this is both illogical and unfair. He has retired. That would be liberating regardless of whether HRC were elected. A federal officer’s pension is the only thing he can take with him.

Ross King
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 2:48 pm

thank you tim Ball for your quote:
“It is what happens when you have scientists who are bureaucrats.
Bates is no hero. He just knows the ship is sinking. He would not be speaking out if Hillary Clinton was elected, otherwise he would have been more vocal earlier.”
This raises the notion of it all being scripted according to the Pay-Master of the Day. There’s an increasingly Hollywood-esque quality about the Global Warming Script, with less-and-less to do with good, sound Science, and more to do with politics, starting at international levels, and devolving to individual countries.
I would suggest that national Leaders come in broadly two categories:
Ones who are adept at handling crises (e.g., Churchill) and ….
Ones (many!) who are bureaucratic managers in non-crisis times … (Harper, much detested as a result, despite sound management, to Canada’s great loss. P.S. Look what we’ve got .. another Leader driven more by Legacy-making than sound management!)
And … no. 3 of 2! … leaders who invent crises to amass popularity and power-base (e.g., Hitler, Putin).
It would seem axiomatic that any Leader wants to demonstrate Leadership, if only to justify his/her election, let alone improve their re-election chances, let alone forge a “legacy” by which they will be remembered in the most +ve terms (good luck Obama!)
And so, it seems that the Global Warming Script fits precisely with this ambit … an Issue to create hopefully endless opportunities for demonstrating strong leadership, boosting approval-ratings, and leaving a “Legacy” so as to polish retrospectively what otherwise wd. be a dismal record (“Hello, Barack!”)
*Our* issue is to de-construct the incestuous relationship between ever-too-eager (so-called Scientific) supplicants who are Issue-promoting, and grasping at the lavish funding to serve & satisfy whatever the Political Pay-Masters want said …. in their respective quest for Issues to serve their narrow aims.
The Swamp does indeed need draining.

twomoon
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 2:51 pm

I think this is both illogical and unfair. He has retired. That would be liberating regardless of whether HRC were elected. A federal officer’s pension is the only thing he can take with him.

John Endicott
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 6, 2017 5:48 am

Tim, that’s perhaps a bit unfair. He wasn’t vocal earlier because he was still employed and wished to remain so. He’s retired now, so fear of retaliation by his bosses no longer exists for him. We can’t know if he would or would not have spoken up if HRC won the election, we can only be thankful that he did speak up now that there is someone in the white house who will act on the malfeasance he pointed out.

Hilary Ostrov (aka hro001)
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 6, 2017 7:33 pm

Tim, I think you are being somewhat unkind in your “assessment” – and particularly in your insistence that “Bates is no hero”. I doubt that he considers himself as such. Furthermore, as Dr. Judith Curry remarked in her footnote introduction of Bates’ (much longer) post:

Shortly after publication of K15, John and I began discussing our concerns about the paper. I encouraged him to come forward publicly with his concerns. Instead, he opted to try to work within the NOAA system to address the issues –to little effect. Upon his retirement from NOAA in November 2016, he decided to go public with his concerns.

Furthermore, if you read Lamar Smith’s very revealing timeline, which begins with June 2015:
https://science.house.gov/sites/republicans.science.house.gov/files/documents/NOAA%20Karl%20Study%20One-Pager.pdf
it seems to me that it is quite likely that Bates may well have taken some – perhaps “covert” – action prior to his recent retirement.

Epstein, Ira
February 4, 2017 7:16 pm

The US does NOT have to withdraw from The Paris Agreement, since we never ratified the agreement in the first place. The US is not yet some banana republic where some “leader” can unilaterally decide such things.

Reply to  Epstein, Ira
February 6, 2017 8:31 am

Really? The president appears to disagree with you:
“The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!”

MarkW
Reply to  Phil.
February 6, 2017 9:49 am

That quote does not say what you want it to say.
There is nothing in it about Trump acting unilaterally.

Reply to  Phil.
February 6, 2017 10:51 am

MarkW February 6, 2017 at 9:49 am
That quote does not say what you want it to say.
There is nothing in it about Trump acting unilaterally.

Since the quote shows the president objecting to the legislative branch doing its job of ruling on the constitutionality of laws and executive actions, it would appear that he favors acting unilaterally.

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  Phil.
February 6, 2017 11:04 am

Phil,
Telling Freudian slip. Today’s activist judicial branch has indeed usurped the powers of the legislative branch.
Trump’s order is plainly constitutional. Consider this precedent, an immigration law written by the Founders and Framers. For “wild Irishmen”, read “Islamist terrorists”:
http://www.ushistory.org/us/19e.asp
The strong steps that Adams took in response to the French foreign threat also included severe repression of domestic protest. A series of laws known collectively as the Alien and Sedition Acts were passed by the Federalist Congress in 1798 and signed into law by President Adams. These laws included new powers to deport foreigners as well as making it harder for new immigrants to vote. Previously a new immigrant would have to reside in the United States for five years before becoming eligible to vote, but a new law raised this to 14 years.
Clearly, the Federalists saw foreigners as a deep threat to American security. As one Federalist in Congress declared, there was no need to “invite hordes of Wild Irishmen, nor the turbulent and disorderly of all the world, to come here with a basic view to distract our tranquillity.” Not coincidentally, non-English ethnic groups had been among the core supporters of the Democratic-Republicans in 1796.

Reply to  Phil.
February 6, 2017 12:02 pm

Gloateus Maximus February 6, 2017 at 11:04 am
Phil,
Telling Freudian slip. Today’s activist judicial branch has indeed usurped the powers of the legislative branch.
Trump’s order is plainly constitutional. Consider this precedent, an immigration law written by the Founders and Framers. For “wild Irishmen”, read “Islamist terrorists”:
http://www.ushistory.org/us/19e.asp
The strong steps that Adams took in response to the French foreign threat also included severe repression of domestic protest. A series of laws known collectively as the Alien and Sedition Acts were passed by the Federalist Congress in 1798 and signed into law by President Adams.

Three of the Alien and Sedition laws were repealed by another founder (Jefferson), one of them violated the First Amendment. Those laws were a central part of Jefferson’s defeat of Adams in the 1800 election!
One result of those laws was the trial of a Democratic-Republican congressman from Vermont under the Alien and Sedition Acts for an essay he wrote accusing the Adams administration of “ridiculous pomp, foolish adulation, and selfish avarice”. The Supreme Court’s right of judicial review was not established until Marbury vs Madison three years later so this is not a very good precedent on the constitutional issue.
The application of the one remaining Act during WWII was criticized by Pres. Reagan and the Congress as follows: “a grave injustice was done to both citizens and permanent resident aliens of Japanese ancestry by the evacuation, relocation, internment of civilians during World War II … without adequate security reasons and without any acts of espionage or sabotage documented by the Commission, and were motivated largely by racial prejudice, wartime hysteria, and a failure of political leadership.” Sound familiar?

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  Phil.
February 6, 2017 12:12 pm

Repealed, but never declared unconstitutional, so it’s an ideal precedent. Trump’s EO is mild by comparison. Congress can overrule him if it wants.
The Naturalization Act of 1798 was alos part of the A&SA package:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1798

toorightmate
February 4, 2017 7:20 pm

The man who shot Liberty Karl,
He was the bravest of them all.

February 4, 2017 7:34 pm

Great start to exposing the “deplorables” of the Obama Administration and the climate science shenanigans of his completely corrupt regime and the Democratic Party.
President Trump will have a ball with this revelation.

bit chilly
Reply to  Larry Hamlin
February 4, 2017 8:45 pm

these people were in place long before obama.

Reply to  bit chilly
February 5, 2017 1:55 pm

But not for long after Trump. The EPA, EIA, GISS, now NOAA. Draining the swamp means getting rid of swamp critters.

myNym
Reply to  bit chilly
February 7, 2017 5:22 am

Once the funding spigot gets turned off, the critters will go away. (Probably to go find some other teat to milk..)

Richmond
February 4, 2017 7:34 pm

Gavin Schmidt gave a TED talk where he argued that the climate models were “artful”. Now I understand what he was talking about. Art can be used to illustrate the scientific method, but he must have meant that “art” was being used instead of rigorous science. (sigh)

DWR54
Reply to  Richmond
February 5, 2017 7:31 am

Schmidt’s TED talk and transcript here: https://www.ted.com/talks/gavin_schmidt_the_emergent_patterns_of_climate_change/transcript?language=en
The word “artful” does not appear once.

February 4, 2017 8:04 pm

‘I learned that the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure.’
The reason for the failure is unknown, but it means the Pausebuster paper can never be replicated or verified by other scientists.

UTTER. AND. COMPLETE. HORSE. SH*T!!!!
Unless this work was done COMPLETELY on a desk top computer and ALL the code and ALL the data were on it, and it ALONE, this claim of a complete failure simply beggars belief.
First of all, it is doubtful that such code could even run on a desk top computer, but let’s suppose for a moment that it could. The paper is “Karl et al”! He had co-authors! For ALL the code and ALL the data to be on a single desk top computer, THEY WOULD HAVE HAD TO TAKE TURNS USING IT WHICH NOBODY IN THE MODERN WORLD DOES.
Further, code of this type just doesn’t run on a desk top computer unless you don’t mind each run taking a few YEARS. Which is why it is doubtful it was on a desk top. More likely it was on a high performance compute cluster which is a whole bunch of servers with shared storage. But modern shared storage protects data by creating two to three virtual copies of the data across many disk drives. The failure of one, and in most cases even two drives simultaneously triggers the rebuild of the failed data on “hot spare” drives. The chances of losing ALL the data and ALL the code to a “failure” are infinitesimally small. You could PULVERIZE every server in the cluster, and you would STILL have ALL the code and ALL the data and the only way you could not run it again is if the servers in the cluster were one of a kind CPU’s never before and never again manufactured by anybody (the cost of which would be INSANE, even by the standards of “feed us the money by the boat load” of climate science and no semi-conductor company on earth would screw themselves over trying to do such a thing).
If ALL the data and ALL the code are gone and there is no way to recreated the computer system on which it was stored and run, there are, in my mind, three likely possibilities:
1. A lot of people are outright lying about this.
2. There was a deliberate act of sabotage.
3. There have been multiple failures of hardware that make winning the lottery a hundred times in succession look like a good bet.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  davidmhoffer
February 4, 2017 8:42 pm

Dr Bates has a long rant at Climate Etc. His version of this story goes thus:
“They promised to begin an archive request for the K15 datasets that were not archived; however I have not been able to confirm they have been archived. I later learned that the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure, leading to a tongue-in-cheek joke by some who had worked on it that the failure was deliberate to ensure the result could never be replicated.”

Rose skipped the “tongue in cheek” bit.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 8:59 pm

Rose skipped the “tongue in cheek” bit.
Which changes the claim of a “complete failure” by precisely zero.

TA
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 9:32 pm

“Rose skipped the “tongue in cheek” bit.”
It makes no difference to the story. It does not answer the question of whether the computer died a natural death or not.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 9:54 pm

“It makes no difference to the story.”
There is no story. No one has seriously said that results can’;t be replicated.

AndyG55
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 10:10 pm

There were EIGHT writers.
Either they all have back-ups of code and data………… .or
They NEVER examined that code and data.
Think about that. !!!!

steverichards1984
Reply to  davidmhoffer
February 5, 2017 9:22 am

: Strange, the links to the GHCN archive pointed too here give the data and some code (probably not the correct code) however it does state that it runs on a desktop. Takes about 1 hour to run.
This is not a simulation, it is a data processing job.

Reply to  steverichards1984
February 5, 2017 10:50 am

If true, it is still unlikely that the data itself was on the desk top as this is maintained separately ina manner accessible to all researchers. As for the code, there were multiple authors of the paper. Unlikely that the code was written on a single computer in the first place as each contributor would have had to work on their own piece of the whole thing. And even if it was all written on a single desk top, that it wasn’t backed up in an organization in which data management is paramount, is unlikely.
The notion that all was lost because of a computer failure is absurd.

Andrew Russell
February 4, 2017 8:06 pm

Chapter 8 Rewrite (1996)
The Hockey Stick
Yamal
Upside-down Tijlander
Hide the Decline
“Lonnie Thompson, serial non-archiver” (per Steve McIntyre)
Gleickgate
28Gate
Glaciergate
Climategate
PausebusterGate?
Fraud after fraud after fraud by the catastrophe-mongers. How Mosher and the other trolls here can defend the despicable conduct by those “scientists” promoting CAGW and sleep at night is beyond me.

Reply to  Andrew Russell
February 4, 2017 10:18 pm

+100
Agree.
Anyone who understands what science is and still attempts to defend the last 20 years of main-stream climate scientism are themselves part of the pseudoscience of the “Emperor’s new clothes” clothier sycophants.
AGW CO2 theory is likely true, but in their attempt to accept a political activist catastrophe message in their work, they became the very thing they claim they eschew.

AndyG55
Reply to  Andrew Russell
February 5, 2017 3:06 am

“How Mosher and the other trolls here can defend the despicable conduct by those “scientists” promoting CAGW and sleep at night is beyond me.”
Because THEY are part of it… !

Bill Illis
Reply to  AndyG55
February 5, 2017 6:56 am

Everyone who has fallen for the global warming mime, all those who are “believers”, are more than willing to look the other way and actually cheer on all this “data manipulation”. They are part of it.
Mosher is doing the “data management” at Berkeley Earth!!!

AndyG55
Reply to  AndyG55
February 5, 2017 10:13 pm

I wouldn’t buy a used car from Mosher, let alone scientific data. !!
Best is a non-profit, NOT linked to Berkley Uni. Run by a RABID AGW priestess. (Muller’s daughter)
In 2013 they got half a million dollars from “somewhere”

AndyG55
Reply to  AndyG55
February 5, 2017 10:14 pm
Bruckner8
February 4, 2017 8:20 pm

Remember when we thought the Climategate emails were going to make a difference? They didn’t and this won’t either.

Janice Moore
Reply to  Bruckner8
February 4, 2017 8:23 pm

Oh, I dunno, Bruckner. Remember who was president of the U.S. in 2009?….

Reply to  Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 8:38 pm

Bingo +wins the prize!

Janice Moore
Reply to  Janice Moore
February 4, 2017 8:44 pm

Aw, Goldminor whose family has such a fine San Francisco restaurant — thanks. That was generous of you.

vigilantfish
Reply to  Bruckner8
February 4, 2017 8:56 pm

Unlike last time, there is a US president who wants to hear this stuff!

Moa
Reply to  Bruckner8
February 4, 2017 9:10 pm

“Remember when we thought the Climategate emails were going to make a difference? They didn’t and this won’t either.”
Because you cannot reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.
Climate Alarmism was plausible in the past, not anymore. Nobody following the Scientific Method can support the Climate Alarmist hypothesis – because observed reality refutes the IPCC’s AGW hypothesis.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Bruckner8
February 4, 2017 9:50 pm

Bruckner8 February 4, 2017 at 8:20 pm
Remember when we thought the Climategate emails were going to make a difference? They didn’t and this won’t either.

But in Britain the PM and the legislature were 97% behind the alarmists. Whereas in the US the majority of the legislature is against the alarmists, and the head of government is a RHINO, not a RINO.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  Roger Knights
February 5, 2017 4:45 am

Roger Knights: RHINO v RINO. I admit, as a Brit I had to look those up in the Urban Dict. Worth it. Gave me a good chuckle. Thanks.

Nigel S
Reply to  Bruckner8
February 5, 2017 2:08 am

That’s what 617 Squadron might have concluded but instead they kept going in over the flak until the dams broke.

Editor
Reply to  Bruckner8
February 5, 2017 10:06 am

Climategate may well have disrupted the Copenhagen CoP. They certainly gave the Saudi’s a lot of support in their stance there. Don’t forget, Copenhagen was supposed to become a summit meeting of the world’s climate leaders as they approved what was supposed to be achieved.
Instead, Obama was saved “by the bell” in the form of a blizzard moving in on Washington and he beat it home while AF-1 could still land at Andrews AFB. After that, there was no point in celebrating the rest of the leaders signing the accord that set the stage for the Paris meeting.
I don’t think we have a really good idea of all the things Climategate did. Given the change in readership at WUWT, I think a lot of people got the idea that the gloabl warming mantra was wearing thin.comment image
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/20/us/20storm.html

Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 8:26 pm

“UTTER. AND. COMPLETE. HORSE. SH*T!!!!”
Yes. It is David Rose. The report doesn’t make much sense, and this least of all.
“If ALL the data and ALL the code are gone”
Yes. They aren’t.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 8:41 pm

No idea what you are getting at Nick. In place of your usual cogent arguments you’ve gone cryptic.
I just read Bates’ own words on Climate Etc. I’ll stick with HORSE SH*T. This is a cover up with a blown cover.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
February 4, 2017 8:45 pm

Dr Bates version there is this:
“They promised to begin an archive request for the K15 datasets that were not archived; however I have not been able to confirm they have been archived. I later learned that the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure, leading to a tongue-in-cheek joke by some who had worked on it that the failure was deliberate to ensure the result could never be replicated.”
Rose’s version is not recognisable. Bates is just saying that the computer crashed and someone made a joke.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
February 4, 2017 9:05 pm

How many different places are you going to post the same argument Nick?
STILL horse sh*t. The fact that he went on to talk about the joke that it triggered changes the claim of a “complete failure” by precisely ZERO, and the claim that it was just a “crash” is entirely a fabrication of yours. He said no such thing, and a crash would not have had the claimed effect except in the MOST unusual of circumstances.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  davidmhoffer
February 4, 2017 9:49 pm

““If ALL the data and ALL the code are gone””
OK David. What are you actually on about? Who suggested “If ALL the data and ALL the code are gone”? What is the basis for it? I thought David Rose was making it up, but it seems that you have enhanced it.

Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 8:54 pm

The graph shown here is the usual David Rose dishonesty. The difference between NOAA and HADCRUT is almost entirely due to the difference in anomaly bases (1961-90 vs 1901-2000). If you put them on the same 1981-2010 base, it looks like this;comment image

TA
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 9:36 pm

“he graph shown here is the usual David Rose dishonesty.”
Nick is trying to “kill the messenger”. Let’s not argue the merits of the case, let’s argue about the character of the author.

pbweather
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 1:53 am

You are using the same deception Gavin used to debunk Goddard’s raw versus adjusted data. You use a large y axis range to hide a significant difference between data sets. MO data is warmer at start and cooler at the end. Who is being dishonest here? I would argue you NS.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  pbweather
February 5, 2017 4:19 am

” You use a large y axis range to hide a significant difference between data sets.”
No, here is the difference. Here are NOAA (red) and HADCRUT (blue) with the same axis range as David Rose’s plot in the article.
http://www.moyhu.org.s3.amazonaws.com/2017/02/drose.png
The difference is almost all the difference of anomaly base. That is clearer with a 12-month running average. On the same base, there is nothing like that difference.
http://www.moyhu.org.s3.amazonaws.com/2017/02/drose1.png

Nick Stokes
Reply to  pbweather
February 5, 2017 4:21 am

” You use a large y axis range to hide a significant difference between data sets.”
No, here is the difference. Here are NOAA (red) and HADCRUT (blue) with the same axis range as David Rose’s plot in the article.comment image
The difference is almost all the difference of anomaly base. That is clearer with a 12-month running average. On the same base, there is nothing like that difference.comment image

Bill Illis
Reply to  pbweather
February 5, 2017 7:05 am

So we move from ERSSTV2 to ERSSTV3 in 2009 and they adjusted the SST trend up by 0.3C. In V3 to V3b in 2012, adjustments of another 0.1C, The ERSSTV3b to ERSSTV4 in 2015 another +0.12C. That is 0.52C all together over just 6 years. And we don’t even really know what happened to the data in 2016 because noone knows where it comes from (some ships, ICOADs, where is the raw data).
How come none of that ever shows up in your charts Nick?

pbweather
Reply to  pbweather
February 5, 2017 10:27 am

Nick, I was referring to the comparison graph above. comment image
If you plotted this graph zoomed in on the Y axis you can clearly see that HadCrut is warmer during the start and cooler in the end i.e. lower trend. Gavin S tried to call Goddard’s raw V adjusted data fake by performing the same deception when in reality it just agreed with Goddard’s graph. You have done something similar on this graph by using such a large y axis that this difference is hard to spot. It is deceptive. Was this intentional?

Reply to  pbweather
February 5, 2017 12:09 pm

HadSST3 (blue) directly on top of ERSSTv4 (red); gl SSTa, common baseline 1998-2016;comment image
There’s a distinct and quite evident difference, Nick. Deal with it.

richard verney
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 2:41 am

You would not have a problem with bases (and hence a problem in comparing one data set with another) if instead of anomalies, actual temperatures were at all times plotted.

Bindidon
Reply to  richard verney
February 7, 2017 3:48 pm

richard verney on February 5, 2017 at 2:41 am
… if instead of anomalies, actual temperatures were at all times plotted.
And how then do you compare UAH at 264 Kelvin and GISS at 288?
How do you compare so completely different datasets like UAH and MEI, or Arctic sea ice extent decline and AMO?
There are no problems with anomalies, richard verney. One just needs to properly manage their baselining. For example, by shifting temperature series such that they all fit to UAH’s period, 1981-2010.
And above all: you seem to still not have integrated the notion of “annual cycle removal” yet.
Bob Tisdale might help you…

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 11:01 am

I’ll bet you pretend HADCRUT and NOAA are independent as well, lol.

February 4, 2017 8:55 pm

Bates is just saying that the computer crashed and someone made a joke.
HORSE. SH*T!!!!!
From your OWN quote of Bates above:
I later learned that the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure
That he goes on to say that this lead to a joke about it is immaterial, and I submit that you know D*MN WELL that is the case. And my claim that a “complete failure” of this type is incredibly unlikely stands. That is an excuse, a jaw dropping, count-on-the-ignorance-of-the-public-about-modern-computing-to-buy-this-one kind of excuse. Perhaps Bates buys it. Perhaps the people who made the joke were being sarcastic. I’d even believe both were true. But for YOU to defend this Nick is unconscionable.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
February 4, 2017 9:08 pm

There is no evidence in Bates article that there is any basis to:
“If ALL the data and ALL the code are gone and there is no way to recreated the computer system on which it was stored and run”
Bates didn’t say anything about that in his post. It’s all made up by Rose based on that “tongue in cheek” remark.
How about calmly stating what I am unconscionably defending, and the evidence for it?

Moa
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 9:12 pm

So, point us to the NOAA backups you say they made. Thanks.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 9:16 pm

It’s all made up by Rose based on that “tongue in cheek” remark.
The claim wasn’t tongue in cheek. The claim was in regard to an assertion so preposterous that it lead to tongue in cheek remarks.
Which brings us back to your unconscionable attempt to play the troll by dragging the thread off topic and demanding proof of something that anyone who reads the thread already has ample evidence for.
The cover is blown Nick. You can’t put it back on by reinterpreting the facts.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 9:22 pm

Point me to where anyone other that David Rose said data and code are gone. It isn’t even clear that Rose is saying that.
The fact is that Karl was describing a new version of ERSST. That has been coming out regularly. The code clearly hasn’t been lost. The results are being regularly reproduced.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 9:31 pm

Point me to where anyone other that David Rose said data and code are gone.
For the results to be not replicable due to (as per YOUR QUOTE OF BATES) a “complete failure” the data and code would have to be gone. Not just gone, but wildly improbably gone. Stop playing silly goose.

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 9:52 pm

“For the results to be not replicable due to (as per YOUR QUOTE OF BATES) a “complete failure””
Again, Bates didn’t say that. He said someone made a joke about it. No-one has seriously said that the results are not replicable.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 10:17 pm

Again, Bates didn’t say that. He said someone made a joke about it.
So you’re not a silly goose. You’re the Cheshire Cat.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 10:54 pm

David,
You seem to have made up a whole story that is beyond even the imagination of David Rose. As far as I can tell (because you won’t state it clearly) you are saying that all data and code has been lost, and NOAA crashed a computer to cover it up. Or something.
But that has no basis in these reports. Based on what Bates says himself at CE:
1. Some peripheral data (GHCN – the paper as about SST and ERSST V4) was not archived according to some bureaucratic process that seems to have been his baby
2. There is no allegation that data or code was actually lost, and it isn’t at all clear what that data or code could be. He complains that there was some data used that had not been through some formal process.
3. He says that a computer failed. That is all. He doesn’t say (seriously) that it affected anything. Data and code are of course routinely backed up, apart from also being on other computers of the co-authors etc. He says someone made a joke about it. There is no serious alleegation at all. And to say (as you seem to) that NOAA is using that as an excuse to cover up something (what?) is just off the planet.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 11:00 pm

Data and code are of course routinely backed up
Good to know. Now, can you produce the data and code used in Karl15?

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 11:28 pm

As far as I can tell (because you won’t state it clearly) you are saying that all data and code has been lost
No, I said that this was improbable to the point of being absurd. Which you just agreed to by pointing out that backups are routine. You’ve claimed I said something I didn’t. I was ridiculing the possibility that anything was lost due to a computer “failure” and you attempted to spin it into something else.

AndyG55
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 10:17 pm

There were EIGHT writers.
Either they all have back-ups of code and data………… .or
They NEVER examined that code and data.
Think about that. !!!!

jones
February 4, 2017 9:04 pm

What do you think about all this Griff?

toorightmate
Reply to  jones
February 4, 2017 11:11 pm

Griff is hiding behind that pile of emails with Uma and Gavin Shit (is that the correct spelling?).

Moa
February 4, 2017 9:06 pm

Even worse, nearly HALF of the data is now ‘estimated’. Even if your algorithm is perfect (which this article indicates is not the case) the GHCN surface data remains badly contaminated by estimates – and much of the apparent surface warming comes from these estimates (which assume there is warming).
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2014/07/09/analysis-of-ushcn-dataset/
The massive use of estimate data completely dwarfs even the serious software and procedural flaws from NOAA.

knr
Reply to  Moa
February 5, 2017 2:34 am

Indeed much can be hinder under ‘estimated’ the old problems of data availability and reliability never went away when the world of ‘settled science’ came about , they where merely ‘modeled ‘ out of existence.

Reply to  Moa
February 6, 2017 10:09 am

and 27% of the actual temp data is from Urban areas that the WMO flag us as having zero quality.

Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 9:11 pm

“Even worse, nearly HALF of the data is now ‘estimated’. “
For heavens sake – you say that about GHCN and then link to a post about USHCN (no longer used). None of that has anything to to with GHCN or global indices.

Eric Barnes
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 11:38 am

“defending the indefensible”. That’s the purpose of a majority of Nick’s posts.

catweazle666
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 4:25 pm

“So what Karl did is 100% AOK with you Nick?”
ANYTHING that protects the ideology of Mann and Co’s Hokey Team and keeps the AGW hoax alive is evidently OK with Nick.
When you’re out there convinced that only your efforts can succeed in ‘Saving the Planet™’, the end justifies the means.

Moa
February 4, 2017 9:16 pm

USHCN data forms a large chunk of the GHCN. You didn’t know that?
You don’t know that there are thousands of kilometers between surface stations in many parts of the World ?
Go and look at the RAW data. You will see that nearly half is marked as ‘E’ for estimate. Stop replying and go and look for yourself and the original data before it is processed. This is why the surface data does not match the satellites and balloon datasets.
Did you never look at the RAW data ? you cannot claim to be a competent scientist unless you do.

Moa
Reply to  Moa
February 4, 2017 9:20 pm

Watts Up with That has covered this in the past. Did you really not know about this Mr Stokes ?
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/09/27/approximately-92-or-99-of-ushcn-surface-temperature-data-consists-of-estimated-values/

Nick Stokes
Reply to  Moa
February 4, 2017 9:27 pm

“USHCN data forms a large chunk of the GHCN. You didn’t know that?”
The former USHCN stations form a modest chunk of GHCN. But GHCN doesn’t use USHCN infilling. It uses the data as supplied on CLIMAT forms to go into the GHCVN unadjusted, and then that goes through pairwise homogenisation, just like elsewhere.
“Did you never look at the RAW data ? “
Yes. I do it all the time. I produce a monthly index , based on GHCN unadjusted, and ERSST. And so I know that adjustment makes very little difference.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 10:43 pm

Nick,
Never having traced this so I do not know, it seems that much Aust land T data was taken at nominal 0900 hours so TOBS should not apply., Do you know if somewhere along the trail there might be a TOB adjustment made in a global adjustment by any of the authorities? I’d be relieved if there was a definite ‘NO’.
Cheers Geoff.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 11:02 pm

Geoff,
As I keep insisting, the GHCN unadjusted data, and the BoM unadjusted that you can get here, are just that – unadjusted. I went through the BoM data for Melbourne, and checked a dozen or so old readings with old newspapers. They all lined up. If anyone really wants to claim that is not so, there is a simple remedy. Just find one entry, and an old newspaper, and show a discrepancy? Despite all the years of kvetching, no-one seems to have tried this obvious step.

Moa
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 4, 2017 11:11 pm

“The former USHCN stations form a modest chunk of GHCN”
Really? The vast bulk of the stations are in the US and the GHCN’s historical data comes from the same data that forms the USHCN.
So you are saying that the estimate data in the USHCN has been magically replaced with unestimated data in the GHCN ? that’s a neat trick, how’d they do it ? Either the data are sparse or there is temporal infilling.
Furthermore, you have not addressed the sparseness of the sampling where there are thousands of kilometers between points in some regions of the globe. This is spatially sparse.
Yes, I’m aware of your site. It’s got the same kind of academic-grade scientific software I used to write when I did my PhD. The description of the ERSST you use says this

The Extended Reconstructed Sea Surface Temperature (ERSST) dataset is a global monthly sea surface temperature analysis derived from the International Comprehensive Ocean–Atmosphere Dataset with missing data filled in by statistical methods.

https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/data-access/marineocean-data/extended-reconstructed-sea-surface-temperature-ersst
Infilled data are not ‘data’ according to the Scientific Method. They are ‘hypothesis’.
Only in climate (pseudo-)science do people think estimated data are worth anything. In astrophysics it would be lovely if we could just ‘estimate’ in extra-solar planets for our gravitational lensing discoveries, but everyone understands this is preposterous, except climate ‘scientists’. We also understand don’t exclude *natural* effects when we look for explanations for our observations (as the IPCC’s terms of reference do).
But then, climate science is not about science it is about the United Nations rent-seeking and Collectivist wealth confiscation, as Christina Figueres has admitted numerous times (as she lavish praise on the economic model of Communist China while calling its air ‘breathable’).
http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/climate-change-scare-tool-to-destroy-capitalism
The observational data for man as the dominant factor in climate variability (such hubris!) is simply not there. The true deniers pretend the GCM are an accurate reflection of reality when it is clear they are worse than even the low standard of most scientific software (I used to write such models, and scientific software is still far behind the State of the Art or quality and *accuracy*, despite what scientists tend to think).

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 3:13 am

Nick,
I have cross checked pages of handwritten also, with the same result. I checked against BOM CDO.
My query was about cross checks with a final product like those from GISS, NOAA, Hadcru etc. I can do this with difficulty through unfamiliarity, but no sense duplicating work that you seem to have done already. Have you already shown some day by day comparisons of BOM CDO with the internationals above, or is it hard to get daily data from these internationals at the stage it is ready for input to these?
Geoff

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 4:10 am

Nick re newspaper records,
Colleagues here have done much Trove searching and found frequent mismatch with BOM current records. Typically, if a comment is elicited from an authority, it will be dismissive, like the mismatch being caused by older, inappropriate equipment, or being too small to matter in the larger scheme.
I wonder if we are now at the stage of a comprehensive review to see if all these dismissed small errors aggregate to a figure of concern.
I can send you the newspaper comparisons once I get them from colleagues who did the searches.
Geoff.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 5:00 am

Moa February 4, 2017 at 11:11 pm: Well said!

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 8:17 am

The supposedly raw data can no longer be trusted. NOAA flunkies have long put their thumbs on thermometers when reading alleged temperatures.
These are the same miscreants who put a new station in Death Valley, facing a southern-exposed cliff, because the perfectly good long-standing one wasn’t producing the desired results.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 11:13 am

“…For heavens sake – you say that about GHCN and then link to a post about USHCN (no longer used)…”
“…The former USHCN stations form a modest chunk of GHCN…”
Said by the very same person 16 minutes apart.

Beliaik
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 4:47 pm

Geoff Sherrington
On the subject of searching Trove for historic newspapers – it’s worse than we thought!
News Corp has removed much of their regional newspaper content from Trove and it is now unavailable online, even to a mate who is a regional editor.
Will be keen to see how your project goes – all the best!

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 6, 2017 10:13 am

How do you adjust estimated data, do you throw a dice? amazing that precision temp monitoring in a controlled room cannot get to a one degree accuracy.

toorightmate
Reply to  Moa
February 4, 2017 11:12 pm

RAW DATA is totally irrelevant to those who live in the world of models.

Roger Knights
February 4, 2017 9:53 pm

It’ll be amusing to read Monckton’s sarcastic take on this.

Reply to  Roger Knights
February 4, 2017 10:12 pm

That may take a while. He’ll not respond out of whimsy, he’ll examine the data – at least that part of it made public.

February 4, 2017 10:00 pm

Why is the “verified” data more than 0.3 C warmer for 2016 than 1998? I’m not sure it is that much more from some of the other data presented on this site and others.

Gerry, England
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
February 5, 2017 6:50 am

I don’t think I would trust Hadcrut either since it seems to have reduced the 1998 El Nino that the sat data has as matching 2016. Even one of the intervening years looks as high as 1998. It is inconvenient to their cause to have a year nearly 20 years ago similar to today given the ‘unprecedented warming’ going on.

Rattus Norvegicus
February 4, 2017 10:04 pm

There is this little problem of Zeke Hausfather, et. al.’s paper from a few weeks back which confirmed that the ERSST4 record was good. Give it up guys, the pause or hiatus or whatever you want to call it is dead.

Felflames
Reply to  Rattus Norvegicus
February 5, 2017 12:13 am

Based on my beliefs and information to hand I can confirm Earths moon (the bigger one) is made of green cheese.
The smaller one is really an alien probe sent to monitor human progress.

knr
Reply to  Rattus Norvegicus
February 5, 2017 2:31 am

oddly building on quick sand does not suddenly create solid foundation , it merely results in unstable building .

Reply to  Rattus Norvegicus
February 5, 2017 8:12 am

Bill Illis,thinks it is NOT good:
” Bill Illis
February 5, 2017 at 7:05 am
So we move from ERSSTV2 to ERSSTV3 in 2009 and they adjusted the SST trend up by 0.3C. In V3 to V3b in 2012, adjustments of another 0.1C, The ERSSTV3b to ERSSTV4 in 2015 another +0.12C. That is 0.52C all together over just 6 years. And we don’t even really know what happened to the data in 2016 because noone knows where it comes from (some ships, ICOADs, where is the raw data).
How come none of that ever shows up in your charts Nick?”
You FIRST have to explain the adjustments,which always goes upward.

Moa
Reply to  Sunsettommy
February 5, 2017 1:04 pm

You FIRST have to explain the adjustments,which always goes upward.

The real trick is they adjust older data *downward*. Then they correctly claim that “our adjustments made the average colder”. This is true.
What they don’t say, and this is of the utmost significance, is that the adjustment downward is correlated with time. That is, they adjust the older data downward. This produces a lower mean temperature, which they then crow about as camouflage for their subterfuge, but it increases the TREND in the data. Since the trend is the core of the debate these SYSTEMATIC adjustments to the data are done to try make the data match the model – when actual science is about doing it the other way around.
This is all explained because this is not about science, which is why the Scientific Method is not being used. This is about politics: the UN is ‘rent seeking’ with is ‘carbon pollution tax’ so it becomes independent of US funding (the US always blocks the UN’s Marxist wealth redistribution theft plans).
http://green-agenda.com

Reply to  Sunsettommy
February 6, 2017 11:57 pm

Now,
Thinking of adjustments more, one can count the simple number of them made upwards versus down; then next weight that by the number of adjustments that are of short duration versus going; then incorporate the magnitude of the adjustment in degrees. Some are big, like several degrees C.
I have never seen a study with duration and magnitude included but suggest that it would be quite illuminating.
Geoff

February 4, 2017 10:10 pm

Shocking? Bombshell? Nah, just another extension of the MSM we’ve grown to know and loath.

February 4, 2017 10:15 pm

“Factcheck: Mail on Sundays astonishing evidence about global temperature rise,” Zeke Hausfather, Carbon Brief, 2/5/17
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-mail-sundays-astonishing-evidence-global-temperature-rise
“I recently led a team of researchers that evaluated NOAAs updates to their ocean temperature record. In a paper published last month in the journal Science Advances, we compared the old NOAA record and the new NOAA record to independent instrumentally homogenous records created from buoys, satellite radiometers, and Argo floats. We found that the new NOAA record agreed quite well with all of these, while the old NOAA record showed much less warming.”

Felflames
Reply to  David Appell (@davidappell)
February 5, 2017 12:18 am

How many of those Argo floats had their data ignored when they showed cooling instead of warming?
About 1/3 wasn’t it ?

Reply to  David Appell (@davidappell)
February 5, 2017 6:23 am

Mr Appell,
What about Africa where the temps are mostly estimated- is this an accurate way to measure or could estimations lead to a bias?

Reply to  David Appell (@davidappell)
February 5, 2017 9:57 am

while the old NOAA record showed much less warming.”
Clever misdirection. That it shows less warming over its entire length in no way justifies the increased warming concentrated in the last few years to “erase” the “pause”.

4caster
February 4, 2017 10:16 pm

As a former NOAA employee who filed two whistleblower complaints, I feel compelled to offer my humble opinions:
1. Dr. Bates should have spoken up long before now, as it was his duty to save the nation from misspending untold taxpayer resources based on flawed results. (Perhaps he was too busy with Downton Abbey. JK.) Now that he’s retired, there is not much danger to him, is there, except maybe from the smear artists employed by the CAGW cabal. Dr. Bates is not really a true whistleblower, as he is no longer associated with the organization. Try blowing the whistle while still inside, and see what happens – you will be called names to your face; you will be vilified; your reputation will be ruined; you will never be promoted; the administration will try to fire you, or at least demote you; you will not receive awards you deserve, or, if you do receive an award, it will be minimal and not commensurate with what should have been disbursed, and will only be issued to cover any appearance of bias.
2. Most if not all government employees are, or quickly learn to become, yes-men and yes-women for the sake of preserving their promotion potential, and to receive or continue receiving positive performance appraisals and the potential for awards and bonuses, deserved or undeserved. This is group-think at its worst. Fortunately for safe air travel, airlines are finally encouraging subordinate pilots and crew members to vocalize any problems they think are happening in order to prevent disasters. This kind of atmosphere needs to be instilled in our government agencies, instead of demanding, even tacitly, blind obedience.
3. As NOAA became more administratively bent toward the ideas of CAGW, I personally was pressured by my former supervisor (now comfortably retired himself) to destroy a binder that I produced for the office staff’s edification about studies concerning human-caused global warming versus natural climate cycles. There was really no convincing most of the staff members that the climate changes naturally anyway. They couldn’t admit natural climate variations in any case, as they blew with the prevailing wind from Vichy, er, I mean Silver Spring.
4. Whistleblowers are not protected by the watchdogs specifically designed to do just that. Inspectors General should also be looking at the efficacy of entities such as the Merit Systems Protection Board, which from my observation has been put in place to cover up the myriad misdeeds of the agencies and their parent Departments, not to protect employees. In many cases, the MSPB is part of the problem, not any kind of solution or help to beleaguered employees.
5. All NOAA managers and administrators need to pass mental health testing, especially regarding Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Too many narcissists at high levels have, and are, selecting like people for their subordinates. Cronyism is rampant within this agency, and has contributed to the lowered level of effort, results, morale, and overall operational status.
6. NOAA has been corrupt for decades. It worsened early in my career, with the advent of our Politically Correct culture mirroring society overall, and the installation of non-scientist administrators. It is vitally important that this event described by Dr. Bates be widely disseminated to the appropriate watchdogs, such as Senate and Congressional committees as well as the White House, so they can move with vigor to investigate and correct these misdeeds, for misdeeds they are. The administration and hierarchy of both NOAA and NASA over the past two decades need to be thoroughly investigated with a fine-toothed comb to reveal systemic corruption and malfeasance, not only in the climate-related arena, but in all phases of their activities, especially including personnel (mis)management.

Steve (Paris)
Reply to  4caster
February 5, 2017 3:23 am

Would be interesting to hear more about your experiences.

Reply to  4caster
February 5, 2017 10:11 am

4caster – this is very good stuff. Do you think that you could work up a full post for WUWT? Or maybe two? Your language skills are obviously up to it. The time is right for these sorts of disclosures. Many of us would be intrigued to hear a few details about how your whistleblower complaints were handled.

Reply to  Smart Rock
February 5, 2017 3:27 pm

+1

Coeur de Lion
February 4, 2017 10:16 pm

Woo-woo-woo (sound powered telephone call-up)
“Engine Room”
“Bridge here. Sea water temp please”
“Same as last time, sir”
“Thanks. Bye now”

Tom Dayton
February 4, 2017 10:29 pm

Variable Variability’s devastating rebuttal of Rose’s claims: http://variable-variability.blogspot.com/2017/02/david-roses-alternative-reality-noaa-Karl.html

Phillip Bratby
Reply to  Tom Dayton
February 4, 2017 11:24 pm

These scam artists just won’t give up and accept the truth.

drednicolson
Reply to  Tom Dayton
February 5, 2017 12:57 pm

O’rly?

catweazle666
Reply to  Tom Dayton
February 5, 2017 4:36 pm

Heh, another fox with the keys to the hen house.

J Mac
February 4, 2017 10:32 pm

This all seems eerily familiar, somehow.
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Manfred
February 4, 2017 10:58 pm

Fascinating, predictable but not new. The watermelon foot soldiers were busy all about prior to their escargot fest in Paris. Down under in Dunedin, NZ, the Dunedin City Council who prides itself on following UNEP divestment strategies stepped up to the Paris promo soap box with climate change attribution blather centered on urban reclaimed coastal marshland being inundated by rising sea levels. A quick check of land subsidence and local tide gauge measures showed the facts, that together with an assumptive and possibly intentional dereliction of duty, potentially failing to clean flood water sumps and operate flood water pumps properly, thereby permitting a perfectly timed pre-Paris flood. Niccolò Machiavelli himself may well have been proud.

tony mcleod
February 4, 2017 11:00 pm

I bet John Bates is already desperately trying to dissociate himself from David Rose.
Too late John. You are now and forever on the WUWT pedestal.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 12:08 am

You too…

Harry Passfield
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 5, 2017 5:18 am

…but at the base

February 4, 2017 11:04 pm

Words like ‘devastating, astonishing,’ etc. no longer work in this regard, in the same way ‘settled’ never did.

Beliaik
February 4, 2017 11:18 pm

Watts, Curry and like-minded fellows have steadily dragged the Overton window toward public acceptance of the climate science community’s failures. If Trump’s White House succeeds in nudging it the rest of the way the whole house of cards may collapse.

myNym
Reply to  Beliaik
February 7, 2017 5:34 am

Will collapse? It was never a house. It was models, all the way down.
Oh, the _scam_. Still gonna disagree. Not will collapse, is collapsed. Paris was nothing. The Chinese agreement was nothing. Even spending however many trillion they said was nothing, would still have changed nothing.
“There is not there, there.” And never was.

Phillip Bratby
February 4, 2017 11:22 pm

David Rose has produced many excellent articles in the MoS. Long may he continue the fight against the Climate Change Scam and the Renewable Energy Scam.

MarkMcD
February 4, 2017 11:38 pm

“Then came the final bombshell. Dr Bates said: ‘I learned that the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure.’”
Really? I work in computers and it is VERY rare a computer cannot be resurrected and you can even transfer drives to another one and run them again.
Can we spell sabotage? Can we spell criminal charge…?

Patrick MJD
Reply to  MarkMcD
February 5, 2017 1:58 am

“MarkMcD February 4, 2017 at 11:38 pm”
Would like to see that after a head crash.

Moa
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 5, 2017 1:12 pm

Would like to see that after a head crash.

Still recoverable. Requires specialist equipment and skill.
Plus, any organization not running automated backups should have its administrators shot – after several days of well-deserved torture, of course.
Claiming a lack of backups means a drive head crash destroys data is complete bs. Every professional organization has backups, data retention policies, Disaster Recovery policies. Only amateurs think otherwise.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Patrick MJD
February 5, 2017 4:51 pm

“Moa February 5, 2017 at 1:12 pm”
If you had seen some of the head crashes that I have seen in my time, then no equipment or skill will recover the data. I say this with confidence as I have seen head crashes that, literally, fill the disk enclosure with material scraped off the surface of the disk platter itself.

knr
Reply to  MarkMcD
February 5, 2017 2:28 am

you mean like ‘accidentally’ storing high powered magnets next to , or ‘accidentally’ sending the machine to the crusher without taking its data out first ?
You do have ti out quite bit of effort into having a situation where nothing can be recovered .

February 4, 2017 11:46 pm

Moreover, the GHCN software was afflicted by serious bugs. They caused it to become so ‘unstable’ that every time the raw temperature readings were run through the computer, it gave different results.
This sounds familiar – similar to the scandal of non-repeatability that has exploded in the life sciences, that is, medical drug discovery research especially involving molecular genetics. Attempts to replicate the highest impact papers fail more often than not. Scientists involved admit that their complex and sensitive experiments give different results with each run. This opens the door to cherry picking the results most to the liking of the author – a fraud that is easy to hide among the voluminous minutiae of the experimental method.
http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/future_tense/2016/04/biomedicine_facing_a_worse_replication_crisis_than_the_one_plaguing_psychology.html

wayne Job
February 4, 2017 11:53 pm

The graph showing the warming comparing NOAA and the MET office has ante at the bottom stating 0=14 degrees the worlds average temperature.When I was at school about 55 years ago we were taught that the worlds parameters on average were 14.7 C @ 1013 Mb. I was then involved with aircraft it is my recollection that engine performance for take off was rated at these parameters. If perchance the standard has been reset by the global warmanists, they have shifted the goal posts to make things scary.

Ed Zuiderwijk
February 5, 2017 12:09 am

There’s a 5 letter word in the dictionary for data fiddlers like Karl or Mann: quack.

Felflames
Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
February 5, 2017 12:20 am

Do it in the financial sector and they have another word for it.
Convict

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Felflames
February 5, 2017 1:14 am

Didn’t see an increase in convicts circa 2008.

drednicolson
Reply to  Felflames
February 5, 2017 1:06 pm

I expect our new POTUS has another 5 letter word for it.
Fired.

Reply to  Ed Zuiderwijk
February 5, 2017 3:43 am

You are being too generous:
Quack = a person who pretends who professionally or publicly, to skill, knowledge, or qualifications he or she does not possess.
These people do posses skill, knowledge and qualifications and knowingly deceiving their employer and that being the past and present governments, the word could be ‘tr…..’

Roger Knights
February 5, 2017 12:33 am

Trump should name Bates to head NOAA. He knows the ropes. And the employees there won’t be able to credibly gripe that they’re being muzzled by a skeptical political appointee for political reasons.

Reply to  Roger Knights
February 5, 2017 3:47 am

hmm, maybe what he’s angling for, good move on his part.

tony mcleod
Reply to  Roger Knights
February 5, 2017 4:01 am

What, you don’t think he is an alarmist?

myNym
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 7, 2017 5:40 am

Another drive-by. You don’t identify who “he” is in your comment. You don’t state why “he” is, in your possible opinion, an “alarmist”.
Questions for you.. The Earth was once a glowing hot ball of magma. Has it cooled since? Andy evidence it won’t continue to cool? Was the Arctic Ocean once a swamp? Was the Eemian Warmer than the Holocene?

Dodgy Geezer
February 5, 2017 12:58 am

So…will the paper now be retracted?

willhaas
February 5, 2017 1:34 am

NOAA needs to publish a retraction.

February 5, 2017 1:36 am

It’s not on the Guardian webpage so I don’t believe it.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  M Courtney
February 5, 2017 1:55 am

Funny! But true too…I mean, where is Griff? Out for a walk?

February 5, 2017 2:11 am

Huh, 335 comments in 9 hours, almost a comment every 90 seconds. Is this a record for any WUWT thread?
[No, the first few climategate (email releases) threads ran to several thousands in only a few days. .mod]

kim
Reply to  vukcevic
February 5, 2017 2:24 am

“We bury our dead,” said a gunner, grimly, though doubtless all were afterward dug out, for some were partly alive.
This is from ‘A Little of Chickamauga’ by Ambrose Bierce. Please note this was chronicle, not his fictional, and overpowering, ‘Chickamauga’.
===============

angech
Reply to  vukcevic
February 5, 2017 3:28 am

No

February 5, 2017 2:14 am

I fill sorry for Nick Stokes
[But will he really feel better when filled right up? Or when left empty? .mod]

Reply to  vukcevic
February 5, 2017 8:11 am

That’s funny. I put it to a deficiency in the brain power (evolved with a 100% phonetic language) to make distinction between the words that sound ‘nearly’ the same but are spelt differently.

Hugs
Reply to  vukcevic
February 5, 2017 8:35 am

You should start pronouncing fill and feel in a different way if that would help your spelling? I have learned English as a written language and tend not to make those mistakes. The downside is, they tell, I have too much ll in fill.

February 5, 2017 2:19 am

Moreover, the GHCN software was afflicted by serious bugs. They caused it to become so ‘unstable’ that every time the raw temperature readings were run through the computer, it gave different results. The new, bug-free version of GHCN has still not been approved and issued. It is, Dr Bates said, ‘significantly different’ from that used by Mr Karl and his co-authors.

This seems wrong. Software is my game. One thing that all software does, when given the same data, is to produce the same result. If its buggy, it may deliver the wrong result, but very very seldom a different result.,
In order to do that it has to be run in
(a) an environment that is in some way different
and
(b) be sensitive to that environment.
Unless it is programmed specifically to look at the environment for some data – a typical case would be a random number generator which one would hope never produces the same data twice in a million years – I cant see how a ‘bug’ would be sensitive to the environment unless for example it was reading a random memory location, before it (the location) was initialised. Even then its unusual for that to produce a different result every time, with modern operating systems. In general although undefined by the program, memory allocated to a program tends to always have the same values in it.
It’s more usual to find this sort of behaviour when there is a hardware bug – say a bad memory cell – which might or might not affect a program depending on where it was loaded.
With respect this statement has the hall marks of a Chinese Whisper. Its been misreported by someone who didn’t understand what the actual issue was.

Nik
Reply to  Leo Smith
February 5, 2017 3:25 am

Different results if it uses any randomise function.

Nik
Reply to  Nik
February 5, 2017 3:31 am

Different results if it uses multithreading to process huge data sets.

Reply to  Nik
February 6, 2017 2:20 am

Very good summary, Nik*, but would any of those features be present in a program to analyse temperature data?
* http://www.ocoudert.com/blog/2011/05/30/how-to-make-software-deterministic/

Nik
Reply to  Nik
February 6, 2017 10:01 am

Much of academic code is written in Fortran. If you don’t specify zero initialization you don’t get it.
https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-3.3.6/g77/Variables-Assumed-To-Be-Zero.html

scarletmacaw
Reply to  Leo Smith
February 5, 2017 6:47 am

It doesn’t mean there is random number generator used. NOAA doesn’t redo computer runs until the data gets an update (why would they?). If, for example, a new data point causes a site to be homogenized into a significantly different value, that result can cascade through the process until the final result is very different from what would be expected by merely adding a few new data points.

Hugs
Reply to  Leo Smith
February 5, 2017 8:24 am

This seems wrong. Software is my game. One thing that all software does, when given the same data, is to produce the same result. If its buggy, it may deliver the wrong result, but very very seldom a different result.,

Ever heard of a ‘model spread’. Well, it goes with a single model as well.
If your software is indeterministic, it opens more paths for cherry-picking. Nice.

Moa
Reply to  Leo Smith
February 5, 2017 1:23 pm

Most academic-grade scientific software is TERRIBLE by modern professional standards. They don’t know any of the modern techniques: Unit Testing (automated regression testing), Test-Driven Development, Continuous Integration, Infrastructure as Code, etc etc.
This is to be expected, most students have not studied software engineering, and those that have generally have almost no experience. Hence, whenever I’m asked to help doctoral students with their software (which I am from time to time via my academic contacts) I find their software is as bad as the software I used to write two decades ago. And whenever I read through modern academic software I am equally horrified at it. Scientists are trained to be good at science, but the Dunning-Kruger Effect applies when they try write software unless they make a huge concerted effort to try approach the State of The Art (which is advancing far faster than graduate students and most researchers keep up).
This is typical of the poor quality scientific software development practices which are widespread. And the bureaucrats wants to make Trillion-dollar decisions on this (while siphoning off their rich cut) !

Reply to  Moa
February 5, 2017 1:36 pm

Perhaps software development should be an out-sourced input to academia? The researcher explains what they need the software to do and then the expert provides it?
I’ve thought that such a system would be very useful for academic statistics too, for quite a while now.
On the other hand, they’ve tried to introduce such a system for public communications and it hasn’t worked great so far.

Reply to  Moa
February 5, 2017 1:47 pm

Moa says: ” I find their software is as bad as the software I used to write two decades ago.” I admire someone that admits that the software they wrote two decades ago was bad.

Reply to  Moa
February 5, 2017 4:48 pm

Oh, look, all the usual suspects from XP gospel. Thankfully, you left out pair programming, though you made up for it by tossing in the “Dunning-Kruger Effect.” Each time I see someone using that stupid phrase I know they are just hyperventilating.

Reply to  Moa
February 6, 2017 2:28 am

This is getting a bit like the dodgy dossier. Did Iraq have WMD? well it certainly had had poison gas filled shells.
Did Iraq have weapons capable of threatening britains direct interests in a 45 minute timescale? Yes, some of the medium range missiles could conceivably target countries that were very British aligned.
But to conflate the two, to say that Iraq had WMD that were capable of directly affecting Britain’s interests inside a 45 minute delivery time was totally unjustified, but we went to war on that.
In this case, yes of course academic code can be very buggy. ALL code can be very buggy. That was not my point. The claim is that the bugs made it indeterministic. As ‘Nik’ pointed out, the class of bugs that make code indeterministic exists, but its a very small subset of all the bugs there ever could be, and they are very specialised sorts of bugs.
Saying academic code is buggy, is a straw man. You cannot conflate merely ‘buggy’ with ‘indeterministic’

knr
February 5, 2017 2:22 am

Awful and shameful , but in the end perfectly normal for climate ‘science ‘ its been clear for years that the ‘value ‘of research in this area is not judge on its academic validity nor on it meeting the standards of good scientific practice . But on its ‘impact’ in the press and the political area , despite he fact it can dump all these ideals . We have seen a repeated basis that poor practice is both honored and rewarded in this area , its leaders have show themselves to be both poor scientists and good lairs.
The trouble often is AGW skeptics have been fighting the wrong battle , thinking they could win by ‘outing’ the problems in the science , when they battle field was never in science to begin with, but in another much harder place to fight .

HAR
February 5, 2017 3:08 am

I am truly shocked at this news. I hope that Prince Charles is immediately informed so that he can correct his assertion that there is no pause. I would hate to see him spreading fake news!

jazznick1
Reply to  HAR
February 5, 2017 3:52 am

He He,
Maybe his illustrious personage will now write the Ladybird Book of Fraud.
(in longhand – 5,000 times)

Hans-Georg
Reply to  HAR
February 5, 2017 11:10 am

He is himself Fake News. With another son Elizabeth would have already resigned.

Reply to  Hans-Georg
February 6, 2017 2:29 am

The Royals are an endangered species. At least Her Majesty realises that and knows when to STFU.

Moa
Reply to  HAR
February 5, 2017 1:29 pm

Ah, the Crown Virtue Signaler ! just like the Hollywood crowd their attempt to make themselves to look non-vacuous makes them look even more vacuous.
The only English royalty with any grasp of reality seems to be Prince Harry – who is more concerned with defending England and his fellow English than in politically correct posturing or cowardly not commenting on political life (forcing people like Nigel Farage to try bring sanity back to UK policies).

Mac
February 5, 2017 3:45 am

Was there not a recent ‘peer reviewed’ paper that verified Karl et al using the correct methodology for their temp data? I seem to remember Ira Flato on Science Friday making the case that Karl’s numbers were now beyond reproach. If all of Karl’s data was lost, how could the subsequent paper claim the methodology was correct? What of the peer reviewers? What exactly did they do if not just rubber-stamp a political policy paper?

TA
Reply to  Mac
February 6, 2017 9:10 pm

Excellent questions, Mac.

February 5, 2017 3:54 am

This was always waiting to blow-
“Congressman claims NOAA whistleblowers told him climate study was …
https://arstechnica.com/…/congressman-claims-noaa-whistleblowers-told-…
19 Nov 2015 – NOAA denies the study was hurried for political reasons”

scute1133
Reply to  englandrichard
February 5, 2017 5:13 am

Want to read this but link goes to today’s home page (UK version). I know I can do a search but you may be able to do another link to the page?

scute1133
Reply to  englandrichard
February 5, 2017 6:41 am

Thanks
That link worked. A good refresher. I remember at the time prominent alarmists were questioning if Rep. Smith really had a whistleblower contact cuz he was protecting his identity fiercely. I can only presume it was Bates because Rep. Smith’s claims chime with Bate’s claims in this WUWT article.
Also the NOAA statement in your link says:
“We have provided data (all of which is publicly available online), supporting scientific research, and multiple in person briefings. We have provided all of the information the Committee, or anyone else, needs to understand, verify, or challenge the paper’s findings.”
Judging by Bate’s take on it, the NOAA statement can’t be correct.
Finally, the Judith Curry blog post on this (Feb 4th 17) and linked in this thread looks like a good read, technical, getting to the nub of how the data was treated. I’ve only skimmed it so far which is why I say “looks like” a good read.

Moa
Reply to  englandrichard
February 5, 2017 1:32 pm

We are not headed to “1984”, we are in it. Once you understand this then the actions of the media, politicians, UN and Lysenkoists all makes perfect and consistent sense.
Accept the reality, this has never been about science to the people who initiated the memes. This is about CONTROL of global wealth and the POWER to enforce their will on others.

tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 4:00 am

Anyone doubt Bates has deep concerns about human caused global warming?

Harry Passfield
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 5:27 am

No, Bates has deep concerns about human-caused corruption of the scientific method.

Reply to  tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 4:52 pm

You take a vote on it and see whether you can get a 97% consensus — or you could just ask the man himself.

Ross King
Reply to  Michael Palmer
February 5, 2017 5:10 pm

d’you mean ask the “Mann” himself?
I have a personal Credibility Index, on a scale of zero to minus 20, which I apply to all within my purview. I invite Mann to consider where I might place *himm* after *hiss* hockey-schtick, and various egregious claims since (by my reckoning).
It wd be interesting to run this Credibility Index Q’aire daily/weekly/monthly for each of the Major Players — on the AGW side and the Skeptical side, and plot a ‘consensus-balance’ from the results. Purely subjective, of course, but since recent times did Objectivity overrule Subjectivity??? (now *there’s* a good Q.!!)
Post-Truth society and all that entails?? Let Subjectivity be let out of its cage!

myNym
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 7, 2017 5:49 am

Another drive-by. I’m starting to doubt you have “deep concerns about human caused global warming”. Methinks thou dost protest too loudly.
53 million years ago the Arctic Ocean was a swamp. Is it, today, warmer or colder? 500 million years ago atmospheric CO2 was at 8000 ppm. Why was there not Glow Bull Runaway then?

Martin A
February 5, 2017 4:03 am

…both poor scientists and good lairs.
Good lairs, as in “Tony Blair.”

tony mcleod
February 5, 2017 4:15 am

Um, might want to check that graph up the top. Rose is either incompetent or a fraud. My bet is fraud.

myNym
Reply to  tony mcleod
February 7, 2017 5:50 am

Which are you?

February 5, 2017 4:15 am

Dr Bates retired from NOAA at the end of last year after a 40-year career in meteorology and climate science.

One cannot detect his own stench until he has left the pig sty.
Seems Dr Bates is trying to come clean. I predict there’s a lot more whistles that will blow.

Julia Townsend-Rose
February 5, 2017 4:48 am

So what happened to the work started a couple of years go that was supposed to check into the adjusting of temp data? Seems to have evaporated!

scute1133
February 5, 2017 5:04 am

Just a note on BBC bias:
You sent the notification email of this blog post to me at 00:29 UTC this morning, 5th Feb. So this story has been in the public domain since at least that time.
As of 12:45 UTC there was no mention of it at all on the BBC News website, not the main page nor the Science and Environment page nor the US-tailored page. Zilch.
Let’s see how long this goes on for. Trump will probably force the BBC’s hand when he mentions it.

JasG
Reply to  scute1133
February 5, 2017 5:24 am

As we speak Harrabin is frantically calling his rent-a-quote pro-warming, anti-industry scientists to give their biased opinions so that the story will be first presented only in the form of a rebuttal from UK ‘experts’. No doubt ’13 degrees hotter’ Myles Allen will be first on the list.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  JasG
February 5, 2017 5:29 am

He’s got Bob Ward on speed-dial!

CheshireRed
Reply to  scute1133
February 5, 2017 6:57 am

BBC lying by omission. Standard practice and they do it all the time.

Tom Kennedy
February 5, 2017 5:11 am

The Washington Post refused to publish an Op-Ed by Bates last year per Judith Curry:
“He submitted an earlier, shorter version of this essay to the Washington Post, in response to the 13 December article (climate scientists frantically copying data). The WaPo rejected his op-ed, so he decided to publish at Climate Etc.”
Corruption or ignorance – it doesn’t matter. This level of failure in our institutions (Free Press, supposed scientific organizations) is astonishing!
How do we turn this around?

Roy Spencer
February 5, 2017 5:14 am

I’ve know John Bates for many years…he spearheaded the archival of long-term satellite datasets at NOAA. As others have pointed out, note that people like him (and me) tend to speak out only after resigning/retiring from government service. Otherwise it’s career suicide.
[Thank you for your courage, your morality. .mod]

Reply to  Roy Spencer
February 5, 2017 5:19 am

“he spearheaded the archival of long-term satellite datasets at NOAA.”
Are yours archived?

Pamela Gray
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 6:53 am

Nick, uncalled for and juvenile at best. At worst worthy of a timeout for a few months in my opinion. You have only soiled yourself with that thinly veiled question, and badly.

Roy Spencer
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 7:12 am

yes, along with the code. duh.

Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 8:20 am

Nick, I am disappointed in you, as you are a smart guy,who has an interesting climate website. But at times you stumble badly that reduces your credibility. Here as in several other threads you go waaaay off the rails,that make many wonder if you are trolling to defend the rapidly dying carnival, the AGW has been.
Please stop trying to defend the indefensible.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 8:32 am

Nick: Roy Spencer’s reply to you:

yes, along with the code. duh.

And, as I assume your data is archived, when required, you will be as astonished that many of your co-scientists of the alarmist persuasion do not archive theirs. Is that an ethos developed by Michael Mann, I wonder?

kim
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 9:39 am

Nick rides himself hard.
========

Editor
Reply to  Nick Stokes
February 5, 2017 10:22 am

An interesting counterpoint is to compare the tenor and facts in Karl et al about their new adjustments with Roy Spencer’s description of the adjustments that went into his UAH V6 satellite data. (To be published soon, but Roy had an early version on his web site.) The former read like torturing data, especially buoy data, the latter read like go through all the possibilities before concluding small adjustments are warranted. I.e. real science.

Nik
Reply to  Roy Spencer
February 5, 2017 6:34 am

I suppose the opposite applies then. If you’re going to retire in 1 year then publish a paper that you will not be dismissed for.

Reply to  Roy Spencer
February 5, 2017 7:01 am

Roy Spencer,
Thanks.
Take care.
John

JasG
February 5, 2017 5:14 am

“Dr Bates said: ‘They had good data from buoys. And they threw it out and “corrected” it by using the bad data from ships. You never change good data to agree with bad, but that’s what they did – so as to make it look as if the sea was warmer.’
Just what skeptics had been saying all along. It’s ironic to be labelled anti-science for merely trying to request a modicum of scientific integrity from taxpayer-funded bodies.

richard verney
Reply to  JasG
February 5, 2017 6:33 am

That was the main problem, as a matter of principle, with the paper.
Ship’s data is awful. I have approximately 30 years experience of examining ship’s data and it never fails to amaze.
I have seen deck logs (with noon figures), engine logs (with noon figures), noon day reports to owners, noon day reports to charterers, and noon day reports to weather routing agencies (which are tracking and guiding the vessel) all saying different things with respect to performance, sea temperatures, currents, weather data, cargo temperature/heating etc. If you get to see the engineer’s diary/personal scrap book, you will usually get to see even more differences. That begs the question, which if any entry is the correct factual scenario?
Prior to the deployment of buoys there is no reliable SST data, and unfortunately, they even tampered with ARGO. At the outset many buoys showed unexpected cooling. rather than returning a sample of buoys (drawn at random) and returning them to the laboratory for checking/recallibration (if necessary) they simply removed the offending buoys (those showing most cooling) from the data base.
There may have been reasonable grounds for suspecting that there was an issue with cooling (the reason was sea level rise that suggested warming, not cooling), but to simply disregard and throw out the buoys without checking to see whether there was a real and genuine problem with the equipment could only happen in climate science.

Nik
Reply to  richard verney
February 5, 2017 6:41 am

This was the fundamental flaw in the paper, not to get good data but to get consistent, homogised data.

RobR
Reply to  richard verney
February 5, 2017 7:22 am

Too right Richard. I have frequently seen 2 degree differences between port and starboard seawater injection temps. This difference can be compounded in older ships where injection temps are recorded on a lollipop thermometer in the MSW pipe. The recorder has to look down from athe deckplates from a position that is hardly ever square with the face of the thermometer.
In most cases, parallax would favor a negative bias over actual gauge pointer position. To illustrate this point, consider what happens to the relative position of a point as we shift our view from a standing 45 dog angle to lying in a position parallel to the selected point. There clowns “data-shopped”, until they found a set produced the desired result.
Of course, reconciling the biased data with accurate data is problematic, and likely required so many tweeks, as to render the process unfit for public consumption. Data shopping plus input tampering equals results begging for a Hillary-like computer crash.

accordionsrule
Reply to  richard verney
February 5, 2017 10:46 am

Since the ocean below is colder than the air above is warm, does that make a decline in temperature a sharp spike, which might cause a legitimate reading to get tossed as an outlyer? And is evaporation a smoothing factor on warming? Just wondering if you apply the same banding to both trends you end up with a bias.

Reply to  richard verney
February 5, 2017 11:47 am

If Karl was trying to come up with an accurate sea surface temperature dataset, he should have thrown out the inaccurate ship data instead.
But what he did in ERSST v3b was to throw out the satellite records followed up by throwing out the buoy trends in ERSST v4.
Does this sound like someone trying to get to an accurate record. Is this what a person in charge of a “National” data centre is supposed to be about. Is that what a person in charge of the world “Climate Data Centre” should be about.
We HAVE to go in and correct all of the data now. We are going to need forensic statisticians and prosecutors to do a proper job. I imagine there is an oath of integrity that Karl had to sign to be put in charge of so much of the world’s data records.

Reply to  richard verney
February 5, 2017 3:00 pm

Bill Illis
+1

catweazle666
Reply to  richard verney
February 5, 2017 5:05 pm

Here is a table giving Limit of error in °C per DIN EN 13190 for typical industrial gauges as may be found in typical installations. Note that Class 2 accuracy is ±2 deg. C or may even be ±4 deg. C.
de-de.wika.de/upload/DS_IN0007_GB_1334.pdf
How or why anyone could assert that a dataset suitable for scientific purposes to show trends to a precision of three decimal places can be derived from readings taken from such instruments is unclear.

J Mac
Reply to  richard verney
February 6, 2017 6:47 am

Bill Illis,
We HAVE to go in and correct all of the data now. We are going to need forensic statisticians and prosecutors to do a proper job.
Well said!

co2islife
February 5, 2017 5:15 am

One cannot detect his own stench until he has left the pig sty.
Seems Dr Bates is trying to come clean. I predict there’s a lot more whistles that will blow.

Oh, that is so true. I would imagine a lot more is to come. The Climategate emails were the first warning, now with Trump in charge, even current employees can feel safe about telling the truth. The Obama Admin is fond of saying 8 years and no scandals. It is easy to be scandal free when you surround yourself with unethical scoundrels and threaten anyone that dares to speak the truth. That is how the Mob remains scandal free.
Sooner or later the physics were going to win out anyway, and temperatures were going to start to cool, so it was only a matter of time, but this con was over the moment it started. It was always living on borrowed time. BTW, I’ll watch the Sunday News shows to see it this issue is covered. My bet is the Media will try to stick with the lie.
Climate “Science” on Trial; CO2 is a Weak GHG, it has no Permanent Dipole
https://co2islife.wordpress.com/2017/01/30/climate-science-on-trial-co2-is-a-weak-ghg-it-has-no-dipole/

Reply to  co2islife
February 5, 2017 6:46 am

Thanks for reminding me, the Milwaukee Journal – Sentinel is probably on the kitchen table down stairs, I’ll have to go take a peak. I know that November 2009 it was a long time, maybe week or so before they ran something on the “Climategate” email drop.

Reply to  Steve Case
February 5, 2017 8:12 am

Nothing in today’s paper – I’m not surprised.

co2islife
Reply to  Steve Case
February 5, 2017 8:16 am

Thanks for the comment.

Richard M
February 5, 2017 6:19 am

Looks like NOAAGate is upon us.

Reply to  Richard M
February 5, 2017 7:03 am

Richard M
Perhaps followed by a GISS warmergate?
John

myNym
Reply to  John Whitman
February 7, 2017 5:57 am

No more gates are necessary. Trump will shut off all funding to fake science. The Glow Bull warming meme is dead.

richard verney
February 5, 2017 6:37 am

Are not all computer systems regularly backed up?
How can this data not be archived?

Harry Passfield
Reply to  richard verney
February 5, 2017 8:26 am

Richard, (upthread) I have already read that Nick Stokes says it is (archived). He has also specified its location. I have therefore asked him to replicate the K15 paper. After all, that is what science is all about, no?
No answer from him yet….

Roy Spencer
Reply to  richard verney
February 5, 2017 11:37 am

Every digital dataset exists somewhere as copies…unless no one ever used it at all, in which case probably no one would miss it.

RobR
February 5, 2017 6:51 am

So many comments–so little time. It’s likely been written above, but it’s worth repeating; if Karl had credible inputs and repeatable results, he would have produced them.
Failure to produce the goods is tantamount to admitting guilt in shoddy methodology. Of course, this lack of scientific integrity is so commonplace in the climate alarmism community, it will slide under public radar. In reality, Karl’s omission is analogous to a cancer researcher claiming to have discovered (and forgotten) the magic bullet.
I would gladly sign any petition calling for this clown’s head.

Reply to  RobR
February 5, 2017 7:00 am

ROBR,
Imagine going to an equity fund meeting to fund your new temp data system.
Equity Fund – ” Sounds interesting, so let’s have the business plan and data”
Karl- ” uh , I lost it but you have to believe me”

myNym
Reply to  RobR
February 7, 2017 6:02 am

It’s been said elsewhere, but bears repeating here. For many years, the Glow Bull Alarmists have been trying to explain away the pause. (“The warmth is hiding in the deep oceans!”, etc.) Then Karl et. al. comes by and claims there was no pause. Ergo, according to Karl, the Glow Bull Alarmists have no clue.

Stephen Cheesman
February 5, 2017 6:58 am

The first graph is hardly an indictment of Karl et al., the offset is pretty well constant across the entire time sequence; the whole disagreement, I thought, was over removing “the pause”, which would be indicated by a positive trend added to the data, not merely a constant offset.

RobR
Reply to  Stephen Cheesman
February 5, 2017 8:04 am

True enough. If you examine other graphs presented in Karl etc al., the compounded effect of the adjustments is much more pronounced in upward bias; most especially in sea surface temps.

Stephen Cheesman
February 5, 2017 6:59 am

OK, on close inspection the offset is about double at the end what it was at the start, but that is not the point the graph’s caption is trying to make!

Snarling Dolphin
February 5, 2017 7:00 am

Thank you for speaking out Dr. Bates.

observa
February 5, 2017 7:42 am

Dear Mrs Karl,
Could you please make sure the family dog is secured in future whenever Thomas is doing his homework.
Thomas’s teacher.

February 5, 2017 7:42 am

This case is by its nature not a Climategate III (I+II were embarassing email leaks), but a “Karl Bridge Gate”, which is more directly related to scientific manipulation.
Background:
The Karl Bridge (Charles Bridge) in Prague, is the historic bridge that crosses the Vltava river in Prague, Czech Republic. Its construction started in 1357 under the auspices of King Charles IV (Karl), and finished in the beginning of the 15th century.The bridge replaced the old Judith (!!!) Bridge built 1158–1172. King Karl forced the local peasants to bring eggs to enforce the mortar. I.e. an obvious parallel to Karl 2015 who seems to have instructed his subordinates to add some eggs to his statistical mix so he could build a stronger bridge between a hiatus and a new constructed warming. Sic!

RobR
Reply to  Telehiv
February 5, 2017 8:09 am

The fly in Karl’s ointment is most likely adjustments to the relative periodic rate given between sw injection temps and bucket temp readings.

kim
Reply to  RobR
February 5, 2017 6:35 pm

You have to break a lot of bridges in order to burn an omelette.
===============

Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 7:53 am

New AG Sessions has a lot of legal messes to clean up on his plate, but I hope he can make time to prosecute climate criminals from NASA, NOAA, the EPA and other federal offenders.

Rhoda R
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 10:54 am

I am sure that AG Sessions knows the value of delegation.

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 10:35 am

Yes, but resources are not unlimited. I didn’t mean the AG himself, but the DoJ.
I’d be surprised if anyone from NASA or NOAA be prosecuted.

Tom Dayton
February 5, 2017 8:01 am

Detailed, point by point rebuttal of Rose’s claims, by Peter Thorne who (unlike Bates) was directly involved with the people and many processes of the data and processing: http://icarus-maynooth.blogspot.de/2017/02/on-mail-on-sunday-article-on-karl-et-al.html?m=1

Reply to  Tom Dayton
February 5, 2017 8:13 am

Well, that article is proven to be untrue in section1.

It was insisted that best practices be followed throughout.

However, the data was not archived and it has now been lost. This paper (and therefore the other linked papers by Victor Venema and Zeke Hausfather) cannot be reproduced.
This is not best practice.
It looks like you have found one of the first “Not me Guv, I’m innocent” reports. We can all see why people involved in this would want to play down the failings of this process.
But he’s going down too.
Interestingly, this is a good litmus test. People who care more about defending irreproducible “science” than they care about what the temperature is really doing are clearly not interested
Pseudoscientists.
I will read more of your link to see if there are other “fake facts”.

Reply to  Tom Dayton
February 5, 2017 8:19 am

Here’s a good one.

4. ‘The paper relied on a preliminary alpha version of the data which was never approved or verified’
The land data of Karl et al., 2015 relied upon the published and internally process verified ISTI databank holdings and the published, and publically assessable homogenisation algorithm application thereto.

Not many buoys or ships are used for land data. Funny how he doesn’t mention surface data.
Almost as if he knows where the bodies are buried (like we all do) but is trying to misdirect the readers.
Naughty. Naughty. Naughty.

Reply to  Tom Dayton
February 5, 2017 8:23 am

Whether the ships are matched to buoys or buoys matched to ships will not affect the trend.

That would be true if the number of boats and buoys remains constant or vary in exactly the same proportion.
But the author must know that’s not so.
Hmm.

Reply to  M Courtney
February 5, 2017 8:29 am

And on the same subject:

6. ‘They had good data from buoys. And they threw it out […]’
v4 actually makes preferential use of buoys over ships (they are weighted almost 7 times in favour) as documented in the ERSSTv4 paper. The assertion that buoy data were thrown away as made in the article is demonstrably incorrect.

But that author has already acknowledged that one was prioritised over the other to make the adjustment. It’s not ignorance. He knows.
And which one was prioritised? The ships.
They had unadulterated data from buoys and they threw it out. That data was replaced with modified data that had been influenced by the ship data.

Dave in Canmore
Reply to  Tom Dayton
February 5, 2017 9:52 am

lol Tom Dayton!
“Peter Thorne who unlike Bates was directly (ACCUSED) with the people and many processes of the data and processing.”.
There, fixed it for you.

February 5, 2017 8:02 am

I feel sorry for Mosher and Stokes too. All these years of building up their Devoted Warmist Merit Badge collections, only to be undone by someone with a big mouth.
Andrew

DWR54
February 5, 2017 8:16 am

Re the NOAA/HadCRUT4 comparison chart, David Rose says:
“…the UK Met Office’s independently tested and verified ‘HadCRUT4’ record [shows] lower monthly readings and a shallower recent warming trend”
________________________
As has been pointed out previously, the main visual difference between the two series in this chart is a result of the fact that NOAA and HadCRUT use different anomaly base periods and David Rose has made no attempt to set them on a like-for-like scale.
The “recent warming trend” in HadCRUT4 (since 1997 – the period shown on the chart) is 0.133 ±0.101 °C/decade, while that in NOAA is 0.159 ±0.095 °C/decade. So the ‘best estimate’ difference between the two is just 0.026 °C/decade, which is more than covered by the error margins: http://www.ysbl.york.ac.uk/~cowtan/applets/trend/trend.html
Also, note that the best estimate trend in each case is higher than its 95% confidence error margin, meaning that the warming since 1997 in both NOAA and HadCRUT is statistically significant. So even NOAA didn’t exist, HadCRUT4 (and all the other surface temperature data producers) would still indicate statistically significant warming since 1997.

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  DWR54
February 5, 2017 8:19 am

That’s right. They’re all equally in on the conspiracy, as shown so graphically by the Climategate emails.

DWR54
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 10:22 am

What is the likelihood that i) any one particular global surface temperature data producer is engaged in a conspiracy to inflate recent warming, and ii) that all 5 major global surface temperature data producers are engaged in more or less exactly the same conspiracy?

A C Osborn
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 6:53 am

The likelyhood is 100%.
Do you not understand UN Agenda 21 and later announcements?

Lawrence
February 5, 2017 8:40 am

Nick Stokes and others here demonstrate how easily the climate believers will deal with this.
Draw the attention away from Dr. Bates whistleblowing and on to the inaccuracies in the Rose article.
Paint the article as “more fake news from well known climate denier”, and the climate faithful will never read beyond the fake news headline (repeated by MSM) and Bates will just be assumed to be part of the fake news hoax…

DWR54
Reply to  Lawrence
February 5, 2017 10:24 am

What exactly is Dr Bates stating that’s supposed to be so controversial? That one of the computer’s used to process the data failed?

Reply to  DWR54
February 5, 2017 2:01 pm

Read the article at CE. Software bugs in land data. Review procedures not followed, Information Quality Act violated, internal objections overruled. Proof from the inside of politicized climate ‘science’.

catweazle666
Reply to  Lawrence
February 5, 2017 5:22 pm

I think you’ll find that it is not the opinions of the climate believers that matter, it is those of Myron Ebell and Lamarr Smith.
They will not acquire their information from the Daily Mail, they will acquire it directly from Dr. Bates personally.
And then they will report their findings to President Trump…

myNym
Reply to  Lawrence
February 7, 2017 6:08 am

There is no helping the Climate Glow Bull Alarmist believers. And, not in the way you might read that sentence.
It’s over. Trump will shut off all funding to fake science. It’s over for them. They will retire, of find other ways to fleece, of find honest jobs. The meme is dead.

Michael Moon
February 5, 2017 8:50 am

Stokes and Mosher,
Wow. So. it’s true: BLACK actually is WHITE! You guys are good…

Griff
February 5, 2017 8:51 am

Bombshell this isn’t.
and anything associated with David Rose is suspect.
Here’s a factcheck of the David rose piece:
https://www.carbonbrief.org/factcheck-mail-sundays-astonishing-evidence-global-temperature-rise
“In an article in today’s Mail on Sunday, David Rose makes the extraordinary claim that “world leaders were duped into investing billions over manipulated global warming data”, accusing the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) of manipulating the data to show more warming in a 2015 study by Tom Karl and coauthors.
What he fails to mention is that the new NOAA results have been validated by independent data from satellites, buoys and Argo floats and that many other independent groups, including Berkeley Earth and the UK’s Met Office Hadley Centre, get effectively the same results.”

Reply to  Griff
February 5, 2017 9:03 am

Misses the point that failing to follow approved methodology to rush a paper out before a Climate Conference in Paris is… Not Science.
It is advocacy pretending to be science.
You may well be correct though when you imply that this has influenced later work. The fake science will have spread as all the homogenisation techniques are calibrated against each other.
But that just shows why science should be disinterested.
Knowing the answer you want means you will get the answer you want.

Richard M
Reply to  Griff
February 5, 2017 9:05 am

Pure nonsense. What part of the fact the data was not archived did you miss? How can they validate something without the data? What they did is cherry pick other data sources and then lied that it verified the Karl paper.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  Griff
February 5, 2017 9:22 am

Griff, you say:

What he fails to mention is that the new NOAA results have been validated by independent data from satellites, buoys and Argo floats and that many other independent groups, including Berkeley Earth and the UK’s Met Office Hadley Centre, get effectively the same results.”

Yet, it seems that K15 is incapable of being replicated based on ts data and code. What do you know that no-one else does?
BTW: I can agree with you that Rose is wrong in hoos assertion that – “World Leaders were duped….”. They weren’t, were they? They were all in on the act. They needed the scare of AGW like you need CO2 to live.

Reply to  Griff
February 5, 2017 9:35 am

Hi Griff,
If police fail to follow proper procedure to get a necessary search warrant … what is likely to happen (hint: a criminal has a better chance of going free until UNTAINTED evidence is collected — “fruit of the poisonous tree” and all that)?
If Karl et al. fail to follow proper procedure to get their data reviewed … what should happen (hint: it should involve immediate investigation / disciplinary actions, but I haven’t seen that)?
Scientists in specialized disciplines like climate have expertise, but not are not granted some special authority to “fudge” the process, EVEN IF they have sufficient expertise. They all need to (on both sides of this issue) follow the same review procedures to minimize questions like the ones presented in the article by Rose.
And EVEN IF the article were entirely bogus (doesn’t seem to be), it presented procedural questions that “should” be answered BY the NOAA with “We are 100% confident that Karl et al. followed all required scientific policies and review processes … and we stand behind these findings as presented.”
Then, someone can challenge those findings if they can present better evidence or dare I say it, a better data model entirely. I haven’t seen that happen either, instead I’ve seen a politicized environment (pun intended) that is obscurantist at best.

catweazle666
Reply to  Griff
February 5, 2017 5:25 pm

Have you apologised to Dr. Crockford yet, you skanky little liar?
And rest assured it is indeed a bombshell, coming as it does when President Trump has got his sights firmly lned up with NOAA.

myNym
Reply to  Griff
February 7, 2017 6:09 am

Anything Griff says is suspect.

Griff
February 5, 2017 9:01 am
Richard M
Reply to  Griff
February 5, 2017 9:16 am

Oh look, another squirrel. Laughable article. The claimed verification by BEST has been shown to be nothing but cherry picking. If that’s the “best” you have, you have nothing. The chart Rose used is not even relevant to the issue. The paper was pushed forward for political reasons and ignored NOAA’s own internal policies. It was also based on adjusting good data using bad data. Try to keep up.

AndyG55
Reply to  Richard M
February 5, 2017 9:52 pm

BEST is a non-profit, NOT linked to Berkely Uni. that received half a million from “somewhere”.
Run by a RABID alarmist, Muller’s daughter.

Chris
Reply to  Richard M
February 6, 2017 7:24 am

Yeah, and Rose is such an honest and accurate reporter. That’s what’s really laughable, he’s had a number of stories proven to be full of misrepresentations. http://www.lse.ac.uk/GranthamInstitute/news/humiliating-mistakes-by-the-mail-on-sunday/

kim
Reply to  Richard M
February 7, 2017 6:17 am

Yes, Muller’s daughter has outsize influence, but she has very recently realized that the exaggeration of climate fears is a problem.
There are some people whose daughter’s papers I might start reading again.
============

lawrence
Reply to  Griff
February 5, 2017 10:22 am

Exactly as I predicted earlier
Focused on Rose as climate denier, posting fake news in his article.
Meanwhile the real story is buried.
Not one mention of Dr.Bates in this or the earlier arcticle griff points to.
The climate faithfull will never even know of Bates’ whistleblowing

Reply to  lawrence
February 6, 2017 8:14 am

“The climate faithfull will never even know of Bates’ whistleblowing”
IF and when they check Drudge today (AND the opposition DOES check Drudge) they will see it today …

Ross King
Reply to  Griff
February 5, 2017 4:06 pm

Griff climbs so far up his own arse that if he wanted anyone (whom?) to find him, he’d have to paint the soles of his feet white to assist in said rescue.

Chris
Reply to  Ross King
February 6, 2017 7:24 am

Impressive, a 20 year old joke.

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  Griff
February 5, 2017 4:12 pm

No one holds a candle to Karl, Hansen, Jones, Schmidt, et al as data manipulators.

catweazle666
Reply to  Griff
February 5, 2017 5:32 pm

You really are a joke, aren’t you?
The Guardian…
Oh my aching sides!
Perhaps you’ve not noticed, but your big problem isn’t with David Rose, it’s with this gentleman: https://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/news/american-geophysical-union-elects-ncdc-scientist-board
I think you’ll find he is a different prospect altogether.

Chris
Reply to  catweazle666
February 6, 2017 7:36 am

Oh, and the Daily Mail is a paragon of accurate reporting? Please – it’s a tabloid. Here’s the top story from today’s online edition: “Sealed with an ‘H’? Meghan Markle makes a bold declaration of her love for Prince Harry as she wears a ring with his initial while shopping for flowers in London”
Haha, yup, there’s some serious journalism being practiced there!

myNym
Reply to  Griff
February 7, 2017 6:11 am

Quoting that rag exposes Griff as a wishful manipulator of data. But that rag doesn’t have any data, so no manipulation of real data can occur.

Bruce Cobb
February 5, 2017 9:03 am

“…we should have war crimes trials for these bastards-some sort of climate Nuremberg.” Irony.

February 5, 2017 9:07 am

If you speak out after you retire you are no longer a whistleblower. The real and necessary courage is speaking out while on the job. It is why they have laws to protect whistleblowers. The fact that you need them, in a supposedly open democratic society, succinctly says you don’t have one.
Bates is bailing because of the regime change. If Hillary had been elected he would not be saying anything.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 9:18 am

In a way, that makes it even better. When one rat jumps ship, the others notice.

myNym
Reply to  Bruce Cobb
February 7, 2017 6:13 am

There is no ship for the rats to jump from. Trump will expose the timbers of the supposed ship to be devoid of substance.

Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 10:37 am

Unfortunately, laws have the effect of being just a formality, when you see the same potentially hostile people day in and day out who could make your life miserable in more subtle ways than the subtleties of the law could account for. Someone to enforce the law is not present every second of every day in the exact proximity of physical associations required for carrying out daily tasks of work, week after week under a sinister glare.

Roger Knights
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 10:59 am

He spoke out internally loud and hard for a year before he contacted Represent. Smith.

R.S.Brown
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 1:38 pm

Dr. Ball,
It seems Dr. Bates took his “40 years and out” option BEFORE there
was a regime change or that it was obvious there would be one after
our last Presidential election.
If he was, in fact, passing along information to Representative Smith
before the election but still on the NOAA payroll, that qualifies him as
as whistleblower. He simply dodged the sharp rocks by retiring.
Some few retired bureaucrats and University Professors seem
emboldened to speak out once they’ve retired from their secure
positions… don’t you/they?

February 5, 2017 9:16 am

The Daily Mail is dishonest shock!
Not quite as newsworthy as that NOAA is dishonest.
Keep your eye on the ball. The Daily Mail won’t cause major policy changes through fake news.
NOAA does.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  M Courtney
February 5, 2017 9:26 am

NOAA: and the Archive of the incontinent, Where data only goes in one by one.

February 5, 2017 9:38 am

It has been fun to watch this play out here and over at Climate Etc. The usual suspects trying to defend the indefensible. NOAA stonewalled Rep. Smith’s subpoena. Now we know why. Emails will have Holdrens WH fingerprints on them; Karl and Holdren have been close acquaintances for many years. This was explicitly rushed out for Obama for COP21 in Paris. Going to be serious consequences when that gets shown, with the new sheriff in the WH.
Will be interesting to see what Science does, as the paper now provably violates their written requirements for publication.

Felflames
Reply to  ristvan
February 5, 2017 11:52 pm

He probably thinks he deleted all the relevant emails.
That type of thinking can come back to bite a leg off later.

Barbara Skolaut
February 5, 2017 9:41 am

Warmists using fake “data” to push a political position.
In other news, water is wet.

myNym
Reply to  Barbara Skolaut
February 7, 2017 6:15 am

In other news, the Earth was once a glowing hot ball of magma, and has been cooling since.

February 5, 2017 9:43 am

It is time to close all these national weather agencies and replace them with an agency that only collects data. If private weather forecasting companies want to form they will sink or swim on the accuracy and usefulness of their forecasts based on that data. As it is now, the national weather agencies are consistently wrong but continue to get funded.

Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 10:02 am

I disagree. Large scale science that benefits lots of people a very small amount is clearly something that the State should do. It prevents a market failure.
No group benefits enough to fund the science because if free loaders. So no-one does.
Being consistently wrong would put any firm out of business. That way we will never get any better as we won’t do it at all.

Reply to  M Courtney
February 5, 2017 10:39 am

Tim is right. I’ve been saying the same thing for years. Turn the government agencies into collectors of data. Their only standards would be accuracy and efficiency. This would eliminate the political bias from the process. With the “science” and the “data collection” tangled up together, there is no way to validate either if (when!) someone has their thumb in the scales.
Take the same money that is now squandered doing “science” and offer it up as contracts or prizes to competing companies, with the promise of even more lucrative contracts or prizes for high quality results.
If you turned government’s roll into that of a collector and indexer of data, and then offered a $1 Billion prize for the climate model proven to be most accurate in the next 10 years, you’d have a dozen of them popping up in the private sector, and the WORST of them would still be better than the dreck produced now. The private sector would spend (collectively) considerably more than $1 billion trying to win that prize, and since their ONLY metric would be accuracy (I’m assuming proper metrics established in advance of course) you would eliminate the social justice warrior mentality from the science ranks trying to prove their assertion based on a quasi religious belief that even if they are wrong they are doing the right thing for the planet, and so it is OK to have their thumb on the scale.
The free market viciously destroys weak products. Which is precisely why climate models should be produced by the free market. Lots of companies could build accurate climate models. Few could collect the data. The government should be an enabler by collecting the data and making it available as a product for the consumption by free enterprise which will figure out how to produce accurate results, or die trying.

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 10:38 am

The armed forces at least need WX forecasters.
Our WX ships off Greenland were able to let Ike know he had a WX window on June 6, 1944, which the Germans didn’t know about.
The late, great Reid Bryson, Father of Climatology, was a WWII US Navy weatherman who twice warned ADM Halsey about coming typhoons, which advice he ignored both times, with loss of life. Bryson later famously said that you would have more affect on climate by spitting on the sidewalk than by doubling CO2.

Rhoda R
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 5, 2017 11:03 am

Or at the very least, separate the data gathering agencies from all the government users. And publish their unadulterated data daily.

Chris
Reply to  Tim Ball
February 6, 2017 7:42 am

Yeah, because privatizing energy companies worked so well. Oops, wait a minute, Enron didn’t work out so well.
Yeah, because privatizing prisons worked out so well. Oops, that was a failure too.http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-prisions-idUSKCN10T1P7
Same for turning over big chunks of our armed forces to private contractors. http://yris.yira.org/essays/707

clipe
Reply to  Chris
February 6, 2017 3:28 pm
jsuther2013
February 5, 2017 10:22 am

Thank you Dr. Bates!
Thank you Roy Spencer!
Shame on you, Nick, and others of your ilk!

nn
February 5, 2017 10:27 am

Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming => Global Warming
Semantic creep.
Furthermore, it’s a conflation of logical domains to predict system behavior outside of a limited frame of reference in both time and space, that is not only assumed but known to be incompletely characterized and unwieldy. It is inappropriate to substitute models (i.e. hypotheses) for observation and reproduction. It is inappropriate to extrapolate from limited, circumstantial data, especially that acquired in isolation (e.g. laboratory), to global proportions. It is inappropriate to replace deduction with inference (i.e. created knowledge) in the scientific method, where the latter is more correctly employed to gain insight in the philosophical domain. It is inappropriate to assume risk when there is evidence of benefit. It is inappropriate to assume a process is progressive (i.e. monotonic change) when the system is in fact chaotic (thus the need for a scientific logical domain) with large variance, and both natural and anthropogenic tempering factors.

February 5, 2017 10:30 am

This clown show just gets better and better.comment image

ran6110
February 5, 2017 10:33 am

Way, way too many indoctrinated and brain washed people that won’t believe this.
They seem to have a strange disorder that humans are somehow destroying the planter at every turn. They feel we (and themselves) must be punished for our transgressions.
Most of them have been feed this false story since they were kids by people they were told they must respect and believe.

myNym
Reply to  ran6110
February 7, 2017 6:19 am

With Trump defunding fake science, the source of some of the fake news will disappear.
The times, they are achanging.

February 5, 2017 11:57 am

Prior to the publication of his highly criticized 2015 paper that made the the nearly two-decade-long pause in global temperatures ‘disappear’ (by adjusting sea surface temperature data – cooling the past and warming the present), NOAA’s Karl was quoted saying (2012) that NOAA’s surface temperature trends should show the “same kind of a trend” as satellite temperatures do.

The agreement between NOAA surface instrumental data and satellite data would indicate that the temperature trend is fact, and not an assertion (his word choices).
However, with the adjustments to the data, the satellite records do not show the “same kind of a trend” as the NASA (NOAA) records do:
http://notrickszone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/NASA-vs-RSS-1998-2016.jpg

Bindidon
Reply to  kenneth_richard
February 5, 2017 3:06 pm

kenneth_richard on February 5, 2017 at 11:57 am
However, with the adjustments to the data…
I’m afraid you are here the “adjuster in chief”. Simply because usually nobody compares global satellite data with land surface data or the inverse. Either all global or all land.
Moreover, comparing satellite with surface starting with 1998 is quite a bit flawed due to the two harsh satellite peaks in feb/apr 1998.
That effect you of course only see when you bring the anomaly baselines to a common period (here: UAH, 1981-2010):
http://fs5.directupload.net/images/170206/xk42e68k.png
http://woodfortrees.org/plot/gistemp/from:1999/mean:12/offset:-0.431/plot/uah6/from:1999/mean:12/plot/rss/from:1999/mean:12/offset:-0.091/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1999/mean:12/offset:-0.293/plot/gistemp/from:1999/trend/offset:-0.431/plot/uah6/from:1999/trend/plot/rss/from:1999/trend/offset:-0.091/plot/hadcrut4gl/from:1999/trend/offset:-0.293

Reply to  Bindidon
February 5, 2017 10:43 pm

I understand you have an issue with starting the trend in 1998, but apparently you didn’t realize that the Karl et al. (2015) pause-busting paper in question here starts in 1998. This is the very reason why that particular year was chosen.
Furthermore, in their discussions of the “hiatus” from warming in the most recent IPCC report, the start year for the hiatus is, once again, 1998.
So why did you decide to cherry-pick the year 1999 as your starting point when no one has ever suggested the pause/hiatus started in 1999?
And I fail to see what is the problem with comparing the GIStemp to the RSS plot other than you don’t like how it is evident that the GIStemp adds an additional 0.2+ C of warming relative to the RSS non-trend for 1998-2016:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss/from:1998/to:2016/trend/plot/gistemp/from:1998/to:2016/trend/plot/rss/from:1998/to:2016/plot/gistemp-dts/from:1998/to:2016
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss/from:1998/to:2016/trend/plot/gistemp-dts/from:1998/to:2016/trend/plot/rss/from:1998/to:2016/plot/gistemp-dts/from:1998/to:2016

Bindidon
Reply to  Bindidon
February 8, 2017 2:00 pm

kenneth_richard on February 5, 2017 at 10:43 pm
My apologies for answering so late to your reply.
I never would speak about pauses in time series ranges starting with a huge value, as this automatically lowers trends. But I agree: you wanted to put your comment in relation with Karl’s video. That’s OK.
I have reread http://science.sciencemag.org/content/348/6242/1469.full
and everything in it is OK for me. I have no problem with that paper, as it shows that two different institutions (NOAA, HadCRUT) got similar results concerning two points:
– the discrepancy between buoys and ships
– the understimate warming in the Arctic.
So it’s evident that our meanings differ. That’s life…
All in all: my opinion is that the best base for a sound discussion is to show trends in time series where ENSO and volcano signals have been extracted.
See e.g. Santer et al. 2014, who computed for RSS3.3 TLT a residual warming of 0.085 °C / dec in 1979-2016): https://dspace.mit.edu/handle/1721.1/89054
P.S. A little hint on your use of GISTEMP land in the trend line: land data shows always higher trends than land+ocean, as ocean is cooler.
RSS 3.3 TLT land has a trend of 0.178 °C / dec opposed to 0.135 for RSS Globe in 1979-2016
UAH6.6 TLT land has 0.167 °C / dec opposed to 0.124 for UAH Globe
The same holds for GISTEMP land having 0.203 °C / dec opposed to 0.174 for LOTI.

DWR54
Reply to  kenneth_richard
February 6, 2017 12:33 am

kenneth_richard
Entering a “To (time)” date of 2016 in the WoodforTrees database means you only get data up to December 2015. So your chart does not include the very high temperatures seen in RSS in 2016, nor does it show that the trend in RSS TLT 3.3 since 2008 (to Jan 2017) is now upward (+0.01 C/dec), out of the picture: http://www.woodfortrees.org/graph/rss/from:1998/plot/rss/from:1998/trend
Also, RSS advise that their TLT3.3 data set contains a known cooling bias which has yet to be corrected for; so even aside from the fact that GISS and RSS measure 2 different things, any comparison using RSS TLT 3.3 is inappropriate.

Reply to  DWR54
February 6, 2017 2:33 am

“Entering a “To (time)” date of 2016 in the WoodforTrees database means you only get data up to December 2015.”
Correct. And the Karl et al. (2015) paper, which, again, is the subject of this article, only includes data from 1998 through 2015 too, which is precisely why I chose to extend it to December 2015 only (2016). The NOAA data adds 0.2+ C of unaccounted-for warming to the 1998-2016 pause that exists in the satellite record. For some reason, you are wanting to choose different years (1999?) than what are used in the Karl paper. Why not use the same years Karl and co-authors did and compare the satellites to NOAA for those years? Do you just not like what you see?
“any comparison using RSS TLT 3.3 is inappropriate”
So then why does Karl himself say in 2012 (the youtube video above) that the means by which the NOAA data are affirmed as “fact” vs. “assertion” is by seeing if the NOAA and satellite data show “the same kind of trend”? (They don’t. NOAA has added more than 0.2 C to the 1998-2016 trend.) If satellites are so “inappropriate” to compare the NOAA data, wouldn’t Karl be distancing himself from them rather than affirming them?

Peta from Cumbria, now Newark
February 5, 2017 12:09 pm

Why?
In the Great Big Picture, how did this whole charade come about?
Would it be fair to suggest Karl and his cohorts are members of a generation that have, since early childhood, effectively been spoilt? They’ve been repeatedly told how clever they are, how beautiful, lovely and attractive they are and they’ve gone through school & college system that reinforced that. Eventually they got into ‘Public Service’, again an atmosphere of total and political correctness and where if they do do anything wrong, The System will look after them.
Then roll on to them telling their own children that sort of junk and a media, especially movies, full of superhereoes, from Superman himself, thro Star Trek, Indiana Jones, John Wayne etc etc.
But see how almost all the modern heroes, in order to stop the runaway train, defuse the atomic device or generally save The World – they all tend to do something a little bit ‘against the rules’
They shoot when told not to, they go when told to stop, they cut the red wire instead of the blue one and invariably this little bit of well intentioned disobedience is what saves the day/world/children/city/whatever.
And is this not exactly what Karl has done? Broke the rules in a well intentioned plan to ‘Save The World’
Especially just before his retirement and an important (aren’t they all?) COP in Paris.
His way of going out in a blaze of glory, of leaving a legacy.
And all his upbringing, can’t do wrong, so clever, so intelligent, egged on subconsciously by the media and on top of that, half his brain effectively switched off by a poor diet. The same poor diet most people are now on.
Karl is not the first, will not be the last and one day, one of these brain-washed and brain-dead folks is really gonna blow it. Just look at 0bama for a start.
Global Warming Climate Change is symptomatic of a much greater malaise.

drednicolson
Reply to  Peta from Cumbria, now Newark
February 5, 2017 4:36 pm

Can’t remember the last time I saw a movie where the well-intentioned heroes fudge the rules, cause a total disaster, and catch hell for it. And I don’t mean just a stern lecture from a stuffy authority figure, or a temporary punishment that’s always rescinded after they turn out to be right. I mean real, lasting consequences that personally affect them, where even if they were right, their indulgence in going a little rogue has come back to bite them, hard.
But that kind of story wouldn’t sell many tickets at the box office nowadays.

David L. Hagen
February 5, 2017 12:15 pm

AGU President Eric Davidson defends: CLIMATE SCIENCE & DATA MANAGEMENT

U.S. House of Representatives Committee on Science, Space, and Technology issued a misleading press release. These types of statements by policymakers that attempt to take one study/dispute and blow it out of proportion are both unhelpful and misleading. We will be working with the science committee to demonstrate the scientific consensus on climate change and to encourage them not to interfere with the scientific process. . . .
I also want you to know that, while climate science knowledge is evolving, these reports do not change our fundamental understanding of climate change. The Karl study updated the NOAA global temperature record, but there have been many other studies, using other, independent global temperature records, that have improved our understanding of the climate system and anthropogenic climate change since then. For example, all independent records now show that the past two years were the warmest years on record.

Reply to  David L. Hagen
February 5, 2017 2:11 pm

Excellent. Means this is causing real warmunist damage, even on Super Sunday. AGU’s problem (and maybe Davidson does not know this) is that the rest of the consensus is as rotten to the core. Falsified models. No accelerating SLR. Multiple provable cases of academic misconduct in Science and the Nature stable of papers. Polar bears. On, and on. Never bring a rubber knife to a gunfight. And now we got a real gunfight with ‘bullets’ flying.

bh2
February 5, 2017 12:23 pm

What is it, exactly, with scientists who publish claimed results and then allow the supporting data to be disappeared? This has been an ongoing problem. Do we need a national repository for data to be deposited BEFORE a paper may be published which is based on that data?

Reply to  bh2
February 5, 2017 2:14 pm

Those are both the government and Science rules. Honored in the breach. I suspect that will have real consequences.

RBom
February 5, 2017 12:31 pm

No doubt the “Old Girls CEO Clubs” in D.C. including AGU, AMS and AAAS will pool their membership money to hire a killer to murder Dr. Bates.

RobW
February 5, 2017 12:38 pm

I have a question for Bindidon
With your graph of the three data sets excluding the temporary rise due to the last el nino, it appears clear there is a pause starting around 2000-2001. Can you comment on this please

Gary Pearse
Reply to  RobW
February 5, 2017 6:41 pm

Bindidon is not aware that Hadcrut also adjusted it’s data to fit with the Karlization of temperatures. When I coined the term ‘Karlization’ shortly after the felony in June 2015, here on WUWT it caught on for a while, but in this giant expose it appears to have died out. My ‘gang green’ didn’t become a keeper either. No more poetry for me!

Bindidon
Reply to  RobW
February 8, 2017 9:30 am

RobW on February 5, 2017 at 12:38 pm
Sorry RobW for the late answer. The comment couldn’t be more simple: it is a pause, not more, not less.
My only problem is: why does everybody look at this pause but ignores all others since the very beginning of temperature measurements?

Bindidon
Reply to  RobW
February 8, 2017 10:48 am

Gary Pearse on February 5, 2017 at 6:41 pm
Bindidon is not aware that Hadcrut also adjusted it’s data to fit with the Karlization of temperatures.
The problem with people like Gary Pearse is that they all pretend things instead of writing valuable arguments and showing verifiable data.
With tihs comment, Gary Pearse, you confirm that you know neither about HadCRUT nor even about what is really behind “Karlisation”.
I have no problem with that.

Bindidon
Reply to  Bindidon
February 9, 2017 1:44 am

Anthony Watts on February 8, 2017 at 11:19 am
Hello Anthony, I’ve seen there is a contact corner.
I’ll write you about that on that channel when I get some time to do.

Robert W Turner
February 5, 2017 12:55 pm

All it will take is for the POTUS to ask the FBI to go borrow all NOAA computers and servers. No warrant is needed to take computers that are already property of the government.

troe
February 5, 2017 1:32 pm

If Rep. Smith reissues his subpoena for emails its a fair bet that the new administration will comply. Wonder where the Karl emails would be now. And has a data and commincations preservation order been issued. Dr. Bates begins his article by noting the hyporacsey of scientists expressing concern about data security. Some speaking out may be very busy cleaning up their tracks.

Reply to  troe
February 5, 2017 2:16 pm

The,preserve records order to NOAA was issued prior to the Subpoena. And as the committee’s website made clear earlier today, that subpoena has not been withdrawn. A lot of action from Congress on SuperSunday. Implies much more to come.

February 5, 2017 1:50 pm

First, NOAA’s Thomas R Karl (Director NCEI/NCDC) calls himself a scientist and second, he is the lead author of the paper ‘Karl et al Science Magazine 2015′.
My assessment of NOAA’s Karl in creating Karl et al 2015 is that Karl has created a piece of pseudo-science. My assessment of Karl being a pseudo-scientist while creating Karl et al 2015 is based on John Bates’ investigations of Karl’s efforts to create Karl et al 2015. Bates says his investigation of Karl was conducted by himself while he was an employee at NOAA (since then he retired in November 2016).
Pseudo-science is simply to masquerade as science purposely to receive all the benefits of scientific trust. Noble laureate Feynman talked about the nature of pseudo-science in his ‘Cargo Cult Science’ essay.
Science work products can honestly be wrong or bad. Pseudo-science has intent to hide non-scientific behavior while purposely giving the outside appearance of scientific behavior.
John

Patrick from Canada
February 5, 2017 2:16 pm

I somehow doubt this will be taken up by the mainstream media. If not it’s another nail in their coffin. I know of many people who doubt the MSM yet, because of its availability, still watch it. Perhaps the MSM thus believes they can be trusted though many doubting Thomases link to them simply for convenience or availability (they do cover a lot of stories where their narrative can be useful such as the nefarious actions of Putin or Kim of North Korea).

February 5, 2017 2:24 pm

MOD, Is this a “top post”? I’m OK with that but I noticed another later post under under it.
Usually a “Top Post” is announced as such.
(Maybe I was still “on” when the transition was made?)

February 5, 2017 2:25 pm

Hello ristvan,
What is this SuperSunday you refer to?
Seriously. I’m British and honestly don’t know what this is.
Is it a media thing or a constitutional thing, post-inauguration?

Reply to  M Courtney
February 5, 2017 2:35 pm

American Football.
Tonight the best two of the US’s professional football teams will play against each other. The ‘Super Bowl”.
(I assume ristrvan wasn’t referring to the rerun marathons of old shows all the other channels will be airing.)

Reply to  Gunga Din
February 5, 2017 2:40 pm

“Comet” channel is running a marathon of “Mystery Science Theater 3000!”
(Probably would have been called a “webinar” under Obama’s team.)

Reply to  Gunga Din
February 5, 2017 2:43 pm

Oh right.
Thanks.
it’s on the BBC too, apparently.

drednicolson
Reply to  Gunga Din
February 5, 2017 4:51 pm

Animal Planet has run their Puppy Bowl concurrently with the Super Bowl for 13 years running, complete with a Kitten Halftime Show. While the little guys obviously have no idea how to play American football, the game isn’t really the point (all of the participants are available for adoption).

Editor
Reply to  M Courtney
February 5, 2017 2:45 pm

That should be referring to the last game of the American pro football season, called the Super Bowl. (Number 51 this year.) Its the day American males actually go to the grocery stores to stock up on beer, chicken wings, beer, snacks, beer, and pizza. The game starts at 1830 EST, less than an hour from now.
The US crime rate measurably drops during the game, then “fans” supporting both the winners and losers may wind up rioting and generally trashing the area. Others are in bed before it ends. Still others tune just for the commercials.

Reply to  Ric Werme
February 5, 2017 3:00 pm

Ric, you never said on http://wermenh.com/wuwt/index.html how to make a “8-)” triple size.
(Unless the Bengals are playing, I usually watch the “talked about” commercials on YouTube afterword. It’s been awhile since I saw them live.8-( )

J Fisk
February 5, 2017 2:55 pm

As an observer it seems that the modern scientific method is to
A. Find the answer you want
B. Find a way to produce it
C. Apply for huge funding to keep proving your answer is correct.
D. Make sure it cannot be tested by a third party by “losing the data”

Reply to  J Fisk
February 5, 2017 3:11 pm

A critical correction.
You said,
“A. Find the answer you want”
Make that,
“A. Find the answer they want”
Then C and D are assured.
(No need to expend much effort on B. Charts to the MSM would suffice. If it looks like a dropped hockey stick, then only one is needed.)

catweazle666
Reply to  Gunga Din
February 5, 2017 5:39 pm

“The data doesn’t matter. We’re not basing our recommendations on the data. We’re basing them on the climate models.”
– Prof. Chris Folland, Hadley Centre for Climate Prediction and Research.

JasG
February 5, 2017 3:56 pm

We can split up the dishonest from the duped by what they say after this revelation. Some have already (unwisely) shown their colours.

Ross King
February 5, 2017 4:21 pm

Let’s look at the totality:
The “science” of Anthropogenic Warming Studies” has been totally discredited by Climate-Gate and now NOAA-Gate. The jig is up!
No-one with 1/2 a brain (except the brainwashed and/or conniving and Clown Prince Charley-boy) believes these Snake-Oil Sales(wo)men any longer. They have thrown their lot in with the politicians to access funding. ‘He who pays the Piper, Calls the Tune!” As to credibility, BAD MOVE! — who believes politicians any more in this Post-Truth Society. And so, who believes sycophantic, sinecure-seeking, ‘data-mannipulating’, so-called Climate Scientists any more? What makes your version of “Truth” believeable? Nothing, whatever you say, ‘cos we proles see “Truth” as self-serving ‘shifting-sand’ to suit the manta-of-the-week/day/hour.
GET THE MESSAGE?? YOUR CREDIBILITY IS TOTALLY SHOT, and you are no longer believable or relevant or worth MY TAX-PAYER’S MONEY.

Rhoda R
February 5, 2017 4:26 pm

Congratulations Anthony, Legal Insurrection has linked to this item and quoted you extensively.

John Finn
February 5, 2017 4:30 pm

A quick glance at this post suggests that David Rose has produced yet another embarrassing (for CAGW sceptics) contribution to the climate change debate. Nothing has been presented which refutes Karl et al.
Whether or not there are technicalities regarding a failure to archive data, is irrelevant to this conclusion.
From the graph showing plots of the “flawed” data and “verified” data it’s pretty obvious that the trends are virtually identical. It just looks as though the 2 plots are using anomalies based on a different time period. Indeed I now notice that Bindidon and Nick Stokes have made this same point in above comments.
For crying out loud – can we please stop grabbing at every meaningless piece of trumped up nonsense to support the case against CAGW. The Daily Mail is not a reliable source of information.

Chris Hanley
Reply to  John Finn
February 5, 2017 7:11 pm

From the Karl et al. Abstract: ‘… here, we present an updated global surface temperature analysis that reveals that global trends are higher than those reported by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, especially in recent decades, and that the central estimate for the rate of warming during the first 15 years of the 21st century is at least as great as the last half of the 20th century. These results do not support the notion of a “slowdown” in the increase of global surface temperature’.
The NCDC anomaly graph shows the result, from ‘slowdown’ no ‘slowdown’:
http://www.climate4you.com/images/NCDC%20GlobalMonthlyTempSince1979%20With37monthRunningAverage%20With201505reference.gif
I think the fuss is all about how and when this all came about.

Bindidon
Reply to  John Finn
February 7, 2017 3:29 pm

John Finn on February 5, 2017 at 4:30 pm
It just looks as though the 2 plots are using anomalies based on a different time period.
Exactly.
But that’s an insignificant detail in comparison with the paper written by Hausfather & alii:
http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/3/1/e1601207.full
A bit hard to read, I agree, but at the end you understand that Bates’ critique on project data management and Rose’s bare propaganda both don’t have anything in common with science.

February 5, 2017 4:31 pm

As for any political gains from this – it is flogging a dead horse. You need a flanking move – and a dead horse isn’t cutting it.
This is simple enough. Did I go overboard on the title? 🙂
https://watertechbyrie.com/2017/02/06/2141/

michael hart
February 5, 2017 4:34 pm

“BOMBSHELL”. Hardly. Who is surprised?

troe
February 5, 2017 4:42 pm

I’ve been out looking around a little. The other side (there is one) is busy generating a counterattack. If “past is prologue” we can expect the MSM to follow that lead. But it may not work so well this time. The current administration is packed with skeptics from top down. They now have the levers of power which were previously held by extreme warmists. I’m sure our friends around the world have seen a willingness to pull those levers that has not existed since the Reagan administration. Actually Reagan was tame compared to these people. Doctors Bates and Curry have handed us a powerful light. This administration and Congress will use it.

markl
Reply to  troe
February 5, 2017 9:14 pm

+1

February 5, 2017 4:43 pm

Wow, 613 thoughts & comments!
Anthony, is that any sort of a record?

Reply to  Ric Werme
February 5, 2017 5:37 pm

Thanks (-:

Charlie Douglas
February 5, 2017 4:55 pm

There is a high degree of correlation between the two sets of data. The cooler data follows the ups and downs of the warmer data fairly closely.
The real damage is to the Truth.
SHAME.

Gloateus Maximus
February 5, 2017 5:01 pm

From the Daily Mail article:
“(Karl’s pack of lies) impact could be seen in this newspaper last month when, writing to launch his Ladybird book about climate change, Prince Charles stated baldly: ‘There isn’t a pause… it is hard to reject the facts on the basis of the evidence.’”

troe
February 5, 2017 5:24 pm

We foisted the Clinton’s on the world for decades. This HRH must feel something like that. Karl gave em what they wanted which is the genesis of this site. Climate science was politicized early and often in plain view by Tim Wirth, Al Gore, and a cast of European and UN characters seeking relevance and rent. It is not an accident of timing that this centralizing philosophy coincided with the sweeping of another one into the ash heap of history. In Europe the Red ones turned their coats inside out becoming the Green Party. In America it didn’t capture the regular people but gained great traction on the ramparts of power. Asians and others generally saw the whole thing as a sign of our decline and confirmation of their inevitable rise.
Proof of the corruption of science is at the EPA, NASA, and NOAA. All we have to do is look. There are more John Bates and unfortunately we will also discover more John Beales. Dr. Bates will face an incredible smearing but he must have know that. Let us encourage our elected officials to champion his cause.

observa
Reply to  troe
February 5, 2017 5:57 pm

“..the Red ones turned their coats inside out becoming the Green party.”
You can say that again-
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2012/jun/07/peter-gleick-reinstated-heartland-expose
“We look forward to his continuing in the Pacific Institute’s ongoing and vital mission to advance environmental protection, economic development, and social equity.”
Gleick said he was glad to be back. “I am returning with a renewed focus and dedication to the science and research that remain at the core of the Pacific Institute’s mission,” he said in a statement.
Welcome to a sample of their political séance and aims.

Reply to  troe
February 5, 2017 6:12 pm

most of my +1 comments get delayed.

TomR,Worc,MA,USA
February 5, 2017 5:49 pm

Off Topic….. The Bill Nye commercial has made me …….. stupid. 🙁

February 5, 2017 8:42 pm

“Pairwise homogeneity adjustment” …. hahaha, I love it.

February 5, 2017 9:04 pm

Further on that fake warming of Karl. If you look at the latest UAH global temperature report from December 2016 you will discover not only that there was a halt to warming but that this eventually became cooling. This can be easily seen if you print out the UAH graph and then overlay it with a straight edge ruler. Place your ruler so that it covers the year 2002 on its left to the year 2012 on its right. That entire section between thyese two points is cooling. The temperature drops 0.1 degree Celsius during thes ten years this period lasts. That means cooling at the rate of one degree Celsiuis per decade, not a warming as the Karlists invented in order to please Obama. Beyond 2012 the temperature curve turns up again in preparation for creating of the El Nino of 2015/2016 ahead of it. I expect that when this El Nino is finished, sometime this year maybe, what follows it will be more cooling. It that can be anticipated by extending the straight line section of 2002 to 2012 into the region beyond that new El Nino. The lowest level the temperature can reach then should line in line with the true low temperature that existed in the eighties and nineties before the IPCC got started monkeying with temperature. Arno Arrak

Reply to  Arno Arrak (@ArnoArrak)
February 5, 2017 9:44 pm

A ruler? Wow, that’s old school.
WFT a bit more accurate.
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/uah5/from:2002/to:2013/plot/uah6/from:2002/to:2013/trend
Cherry picking, but looks about what you said.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
February 5, 2017 9:46 pm
TonyL
Reply to  davidmhoffer
February 5, 2017 10:05 pm

“A ruler? Wow, that’s old school.”
Remember, way back in the day, we used to solve equations for complex systems graphically?
You could draw a straight line corresponding to one part of the system, and another line corresponding to another. Where the lines crossed was your solution. Sometimes you used plain graph paper, sometimes semi-log paper, and sometimes log-log paper. Carefully made plots on good quality paper would yield an answer as accurate as what could be laboriously calculated with a slide rule. It was an art form in itself.

Reply to  davidmhoffer
February 5, 2017 10:59 pm

Remember, way back in the day, we used to solve equations for complex systems graphically?
Oh I remember. Got my knuckles rapped by a math prof for using log-log paper instead of a page of calculus. Pointed out to me that the purpose of the problem assigned was to teach me how to solve it with calculus, not to find the right answer by the easiest method available. My concern for today’s youth is that they have calculators and google constantly at their finger tips. They can easily find the answer to the most amazing things, without ever learning the underlying subject matter. It is why they can neither make change without the cash register telling them what to do, nor see through the most ridiculous of climate change stories.

Griff
Reply to  Arno Arrak (@ArnoArrak)
February 6, 2017 12:42 am

but of course UAH and RSS, with their multiply adjusted figures, don’t show the surface temps… they don’t even measure temperature directly.
Unless you consider also the surface temp data, UAH/RSS aren’t indicative of anything.

AndyG55
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 3:15 am

“aren’t indicative of anything”
sort of like your posts, hey griff…
except that you are low-end brainless twerp.

AndyG55
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 3:22 am

“don’t show the surface temps”
They are far more reliable that the AGW scammed and fabricated NOAA/GISS surface data, that is for sure.
Oh look here’s is UAH vs NOAA Star 3 data…comment image
I wonder why GISS doesn’t match NOAA’s own satellite data. ! 😉
and UAH vs CEREScomment image
It seems OLR is related to temperature with absolutely NO CO warming effect..
Poor diddums, griff

AndyG55
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 3:23 am

AW, what put that into moderation?

richard verney
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 3:24 am

they don’t even measure temperature directly.

Let’s stick to science, even a thermometer or thermocouple etc do not measure temperature directly.
Whatever system is used, temperature is measured by a a system response, which response is then converted to temperature in accordance with some assessed conversion standard.
So for example with a LIG thermometer one is assessing the expansion of a liquid, which is then converted into temperature in accordance with an algorithm notated on e tried and tested scale.
i accept that the satellite data has issues, but conceptually these are far less than those that inflict the land based thermometer data set. This was the prime reason for their launch; to get a better and more accurate coverage,. Further, GHE theory is a top down game; it is a warmer atmosphere that is said to lead to warmer temperatures at the surface. If the atmosphere is not warming then GHE cannot be working, as proposed, to increase temperatures at the surface/slow down temperature loss from the surface.
Don’t embarrass yourself, get with the theory.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Griff
February 7, 2017 5:18 am

“Griff February 6, 2017 at 12:42 am
they don’t even measure temperature directly.”
Nothing does. It’s a “proxy”.

jeanparisot
February 5, 2017 9:24 pm

Dr Bates said: ‘I learned that the computer used to process the software had suffered a complete failure.’
The reason for the failure is unknown, but it means the Pausebuster paper can never be replicated or verified by other scientists.
—-
You have to try hard to fail a computer to the point that it’s not recoverable by a forensic shop. I hope the new Sherriff can secure the hardware.

AndyG55
Reply to  jeanparisot
February 5, 2017 9:47 pm

There were EIGHT writers.
Either they all have back-ups of code and data………… .or
They NEVER examined that code and data.
Think about that. !!!!

AndyG55
Reply to  AndyG55
February 6, 2017 3:14 am

Good thing is, ALL their names are on the paper, so they are ALL equally liable. 🙂
Sleep with dogs, you are gunna catch fleas.
Good luck guys.. you will need it. ! 🙂

Philip Schaeffer
Reply to  jeanparisot
February 5, 2017 11:16 pm

Um, do we actually know for a fact that it is gone forever, and that the computer involved had the only copy, and that it couldn’t be or wasn’t recovered?
Exactly what do we know for certain about that?

jeanparisot
Reply to  Philip Schaeffer
February 8, 2017 7:43 am

We know more about the failure modes of the MH370 flight computer. A failure of this magnitude would seem to warrant a substantial forensic effort.

AndyG55
February 5, 2017 9:46 pm

I love the noise that Mosh, Nick Ceist, etc etc etc are making to try and drown out this report.
The more NOISE you make, petulant little children, the more the powers that be will be drawn to it.
PLEASE keep going 😉

Griff
Reply to  AndyG55
February 6, 2017 12:40 am

So Rose didn’t post two sets of data with different baselines on the same chart?

AndyG55
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 2:01 am

Yawn!
You are an EMPTY non-entity griff
go suck on a lemon or something.

deebodk
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 7:38 am

Red herring Griff

angech
Reply to  AndyG55
February 6, 2017 4:41 am

Shhhhhhhhhhh AndyG55 please

Mike the Morlock
February 5, 2017 11:07 pm

I was trying to find some information about ship intake measurements and were the idea of them reading “hot” came from.
I stumbled across the paper below, which leaves me with more questions
clearly keel depth is an issue
So is it even possible to get any usable temperature measurement?
michael
http://www.ocean-sci.net/9/683/2013/os-9-683-2013.pdf

catweazle666
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 8, 2017 1:03 pm

Ship’s engine cooling water inlet temperature data is acquired from the engine room cooling inlet temperature gauges by the engineers at their convenience.
There is no standard for either the location of the inlets with regard especially to depth below the surface, the position in the pipework of the measuring instruments or the time of day the reading is taken.
The instruments themselves are of industrial quality, their limit of error in °C per DIN EN 13190 is ±2 deg C. or sometimes even ±4 deg. C for a class 2 instrument, as can be seen in the tables here: DS_IN0007_GB_1334.pdf . After installation it is exceptionally unlikely that they are ever checked for calibration.
It is not clear how such readings can be compared with the readings from buoy instruments specified to a limit of error of tenths or even hundreds of a degree C. or why they are considered to have any value whatsoever for the purposes to which they are put, which is to produce historic trends apparently precise to 0.001 deg. C upon which spending of literally trillions of £/$/whatever are decided.
But hey, this is climate “science” we’re discussing so why would a little thing like that matter?

SAMURAI
February 5, 2017 11:15 pm

FINALLY, this story made it on Drudge Report!
I can’t believe it took Drudge Report this long to post it…
Now this scandal truly goes viral.

SAMURAI
Reply to  SAMURAI
February 6, 2017 5:09 pm

I just checked and this Daily Mail article now has 91,000 shares…
Good ol’ Drudge Report. Always a great venue for stories to go viral.

TA
Reply to  SAMURAI
February 7, 2017 4:41 am

Rush Limbaugh spent quite a bit of time discussing Dr. Bates’ revelations on his radio program yesterday.

RockyRoad
February 5, 2017 11:32 pm

There is a lighter side to ecological silliness:

polski
Reply to  RockyRoad
February 6, 2017 5:27 am

Too funny not to share this tweet.
“Jihad Joe
BREAKING NEWS! NOAA and NASA have readjusted the data from the game and the Falcons won 34-28. You Falcon deniers are nothing but flat earthers and science haters.”

J Mac
Reply to  RockyRoad
February 6, 2017 7:04 am

Rocky,
That was my choice for best 2017 Super Bowl ad! Rolled off the couch onto the carpet, laughing at that one….

Robert Herron
February 6, 2017 12:02 am

Story hit the MSM in the Daily Mail in England. Elsewhere, nothing I can find. This story has been spiked.

Griff
Reply to  Robert Herron
February 6, 2017 12:39 am

That’s because it is a non-story.
Rose’s central graph is either a serious mistake or deliberate misrepresentation.

RockyRoad
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 4:05 am

CAGW is a deliberate misrepresentation, Griff.

Griff
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 7:32 am

I find it unlikely that all climate science is a deliberate attempt to mislead, let alone the wilder reasons ascribed as to why the deception might be being perpetrated.
I find it unlikely that all scientists involved are just doing it for the grant money.
In particular, if there is no warming and no ‘unimproved’ evidence suggesting same and indeed if indications since the 1970s were of cooling and/or the world is cooling, then why on earth did scientists invent a warming trend -it seems to me they could then have got funded to document the (actual?) cooling trend in just the same way. With less effort…

Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 8:23 am

Griff, perhaps you would like to tell us which parts aren’t a deliberate use to misguided and which parts are.
There has been some science done that contradicts AGW, it is never discussed outside of skeptical boards. Nor has it made its way into mainstream media or policy for determining courses of action at the national or international level. The contradictions are not insignificant or have no effect. They are major and are extremely relevant to the ” settled science”.

myNym
Reply to  Griff
February 7, 2017 10:39 am

“I find it unlikely that all climate science is a deliberate attempt to mislead”
I find it unlikely that anybody actually doing Climate Science would ignore the Medieval Warming Period, the Roman Warming Period, the Minoan Warming Period, the Holocene Optimum, the entire Eemian inter-glacial, that the Arctic Ocean was a swamp 53 million years ago, and that atmospheric CO2 was 8000 ppm 500 million years ago.
Or that the Earth was once a glowing hot ball of magma, and that it has been cooling since.

Reply to  Robert Herron
February 6, 2017 1:15 am

We can be sure that Trump etc have been informed. It gives them the the leverage they need.

BruceC
Reply to  englandrichard
February 6, 2017 5:30 am
BruceC
Reply to  englandrichard
February 6, 2017 5:31 am

Oops, sorry for misspelling your name.

BruceC
Reply to  englandrichard
February 6, 2017 5:34 am
myNym
Reply to  englandrichard
February 7, 2017 10:40 am

Trump needs no leverage. He’s shutting off the gravy train. The CAGW meme in the US is dead.

A C Osborn
Reply to  Robert Herron
February 6, 2017 6:23 am
BruceC
Reply to  A C Osborn
February 6, 2017 6:58 am

Have just read that article, via The Australian, very interesting comment made within the article;

Science magazine is considering retracting the paper.

Anyone know anything more?

Griff
February 6, 2017 12:38 am

http://icarus-maynooth.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/on-mail-on-sunday-article-on-karl-et-al.html
“I worked for three and a bit years in the NOAA group responsible in the build-up to the Karl et al. paper (although I had left prior to that paper’s preparation and publication). I have been involved in and am a co-author upon all relevant underlying papers to Karl et al., 2015.
The ‘whistle blower’ is John Bates who was not involved in any aspect of the work. NOAA’s process is very stove-piped such that beyond seminars there is little dissemination of information across groups. John Bates never participated in any of the numerous technical meetings on the land or marine data I have participated in at NOAA NCEI either in person or remotely. This shows in his reputed (I am taking the journalist at their word that these are directly attributable quotes) mis-representation of the processes that actually occured. In some cases these mis-representations are publically verifiable.”

Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 1:12 am

Wow, but he knew it was a stinker, good man.

Hans-Georg
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 1:25 am

Everyone can claim this. Bates became very specific in the interview, so he must have known something about the “techniques” that led to the paper. And these unscientific methods are not rejected by the statement, or the writer does not go into the individual criticisms. But try in the fog candles. “Not involved”.

AndyG55
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 2:04 am

“not involved in any aspect of the work”
poor griff.. it appears that Tom’s co-writers were not involved in any aspect of the work. either
None of them had the code or the data.
amazing NON-SCIENCE… or should be NONSENSE.

Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 3:23 am

“….. John Bates who was not involved in any aspect of the work”
Hi Griff
That is to his credit. If he was involved in the work and kept quiet about something he thought it was wrong, without taking a stand (even resigning) then his credibility would be questioned.
Your interpretations, right or wrong, are valuable contribution towards the more open communication between two opposing camps.
All the best to you and R. Gates.

Bob Boder
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 5:19 am

Mods
it was only a matter of time before Griff attacked the scientist involved and started spewing his BS, how many more scientist are you going to let him lie about before you get rid of him?
Griff
go get eaten by a polar bear you creep.

Griff
Reply to  Bob Boder
February 6, 2017 7:27 am

Perhaps a counter based on science and observed evidence would be better than your reply above?
Only by responding to challenges to theory does science eventually stand.

Bob boder
Reply to  Bob Boder
February 6, 2017 10:38 am

Griff
“Only by responding to challenges to theory does science eventually stand.”
Then why do you continually lie about and slander good scientists who pose challenges to theory?
Your a fraud Griff, WUWT has plenty of reasoned people to defend AGW theory it doesn’t need creeps like you.

Griff
Reply to  Bob Boder
February 7, 2017 3:24 am

Bob
I have at times posted links to places where actual scientists question the publications of some skeptic and ‘arctic fauna’ scientists.
I have looked at the evidence and honestly believe those experts have a point… the science is wrong, the articles pushing it are misleading.
I note that climate scientists are routinely and roundly denounced in these comments are perpetrators of falsehoods. I haven’t done that: I’ve given you the links to where the science is questioned by the relvant experts.

Patrick MJD
Reply to  Bob Boder
February 7, 2017 5:16 am

Polar bears are choosy with the trash they eat.

myNym
Reply to  Bob Boder
February 7, 2017 10:45 am

Griff, please point to articles where Warmunistas intelligently debate why there was a Little Ice Age, why we had a reprieve, and why the Eemian was warmer than the Holocene.
Focusing on only the period since 1978 is not “Climate Science”.

DWR54
February 6, 2017 12:53 am

Daily Mail has now corrected the caption under the controversial HadCRUT4/NOAA comparison chart, accepting that the baselines account for a spurious difference of 0.12 C between the values; however, it still hasn’t corrected the chart.
“Although they are offset in temperature by 0.12°C due to different analysis techniques, they reveal that NOAA has been adjusted and so shows a steeper recent warming trend.”
The “steeper warming trend” in question amounts to 0.026 C/dec difference between NOAA and HadCRUT4 over the period shown, an amount easily covered by the error margins in each series.

Hans-Georg
Reply to  DWR54
February 6, 2017 1:47 am

“Daily Mail has now corrected the caption under the controversial HadCRUT4/NOAA comparison chart, accepting that the baselines account for a spurious difference of 0.12 C between the values; however, it still hasn’t corrected the chart.”
The naming of different “analytical methods” corresponds to a typical nebulization and distraction from the core that Karl’s work refers to SSTs and Hadcrut4 on land + ocean. For this reason, a reply that the trend scientifically determined by Karl will be weakened by the consideration of Land + Ocean is still much more unscientific than the work of Charles, who has at least limited himself to the SST. This is a typical fogging action to distract from a fraud. It is also the case that land data, with Hadcrut and GISS, have been adjusted more and more over the years in such a way that a higher trend occurs during the proclaimed “CO2 time” and thus the theory of the AGW to underlie. Karl only joins the series of trend adjustments. With unscientific methods. The famous work was extensively rejected here: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/12/29/noaas-new-pauses-buster-sea-surface-temperature-data-the-curiosities-extend-into-the-1st- Half-of-the-20th-century / And how to hear now, rightly.

Reply to  Hans-Georg
February 6, 2017 12:56 pm

Different baselines, yes. That explains some (perhaps most) of the difference between the two series.
However, I played around with the chart and scaled off the difference between the two series at 87 points along the 20-year period. Not very accurate because the lines are too thick to scale off with any precision. However, the difference increased over time, and fitting a straight line to it, I got this:
The difference between NOAA and HadCrut4 increases at 0.027°C/decade – that is to say that whatever rate of warming is deduced from the HadCrut4 series, the warming rate from the NOAA data would be greater by that amount.
IMHO, both series are too spiky (mostly due to the El Ninos) to tease a meaningful warming rate from them, but that has never stopped the warmists (or skeptics either, for that matter).
Small numbers, yes. Probably too small to mean anything, except that when 2016 was celebrated 0.02°C hotter than 2015, we were told that small numbers really do matter.

John G
February 6, 2017 1:18 am

I noticed on the pausebuster chart that the 0 deg point on the temperature scale represents 14 DegC – the average world temperature. ICAO use 15 DegC for the standard atmosphere, which when I went through aviation training was taught as the average world temperature. I just wondered why the difference?

Michael Carter
February 6, 2017 1:31 am

Over the period 1998-2016, the trend in New Zealand is negative at -0.0011 degC per year (or -0.01 deg C per decade, rounding to 2 decimal places). That is, close enough to zero.
This comes from our official source. It looks to be pretty close to the satellite record. It may have been somewhat different given that we are a range of mountains in the sea.
I am now having lots of fun with all our records, some dating back to 19th century. There are plenty of stations to work with. At first glance it looks as though NIWA’s calculation of around + 0.9 C over the last 108 years is pretty right.
Its the next 20 years that I am looking forward to.

James Gardiner
February 6, 2017 1:45 am

The Media in general have ignored this while they trumpeted the pause-buster paper endlessly so it is an uphill struggle. There is no appetite or reward for folk to admit to being wrong. The charlatans keep getting away with upwards adjustments on the flimsiest excuses and it will happen again until the warmist activists are removed from positions of influence. Hence it is what Trump believes that is important.
Yet despite these NOAA manipulations there is still a consensus in the scientific literature that the pause exists and some warmist scientists have politely declared the crude NOAA adjustments to be not credible. Of course everyone knows this they just don’t like to be tarred as skeptics because they will lose their jobs! The mere fact that good data was replaced by demonstrably bad data in order to get rid of a troublesome trend is enough for honest folk to recognize there is chicanery afoot.
Peter Thorne has been striving to adjust radiosondes records to agree with models by various methods, including a wind speed proxy – this despite the fact that un-adjusted radiosondes had agreed with the satellites. This rot started with the Santer paper that used this modified (& truncated) data with inappropriate frequentist statistics to argue that the spread of observations and models were so wide that the uncertainty limits overlapped and hence models weren’t really so crap. Not only is it irrational to argue that crappier results lead to better models, but when you adjust multiple datasets upwards to argue that they verify your model then it is not science but just pure dogma. Why they do this I can’t say but it sure keeps the money rolling into what was once a backwater activity.

Roy
February 6, 2017 2:19 am

The Guardian has published a response to David Rose’s article without actually mentioning John Bates.
Mail on Sunday launches the first salvo in the latest war against climate scientists
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2017/feb/05/mail-on-sunday-launches-the-first-salvo-in-the-latest-war-against-climate-scientists

Reply to  Roy
February 6, 2017 3:47 am

In the associated video M. Mann states that:
Climate change den..rs are akin to lions, while some outstanding AGW climate scientists are alike zebras.
Domesticated ‘zebra’ lost its stripes and it is better known as a donkey. Well said Dr. Mann.

Hans-Georg
Reply to  Roy
February 6, 2017 4:39 am

No, the first volley was in November 2016. As a skeptic of the theory of the anthropogenic climate warming incidence to the office in Washington D.C. was chosen. This is only the beginning of the dissolution of the omerta that has prevailed so far among climatologists.

observa
Reply to  Roy
February 6, 2017 7:17 am

Drawing all their wagons into an ever decreasing circle. We live in interesting times.

Harry Passfield
February 6, 2017 4:08 am

I wanted to check out Tom Karl’s qualifications so Googled him. I was fascinated to see that William Connolley had already created a Wiki page about him and this controversy. Needless to say, it was typical Connolley, ‘d’-words and all. It was also noticeable in the edits how comments by Pielke and references to others were deleted, for example:

Neither Mike Morano nor Climate Depot nor Lamar Smith are credible sources. There are several rebuttals out in the web!

Hans-Georg
February 6, 2017 4:57 am

Already in the year 2000 Karl wanted to prove, according to the El Nino, that the global warming rate dramatically exacerbated. According to the only paper in Karl’s article listed in Conolley’s article in Wikipedia,
Karl, T.R., R.W. Knight, and B. Baker. 2000. The record breaking global temperatures of 1997 and 1998: Evidence for an increase in the rate of global warming. Geophysical Research Letters 27 (March 1): 719-722. (Press release)
This is probably his hobby. Yeah, such people need the land.

feliksch
Reply to  Hans-Georg
February 9, 2017 9:18 am

The term “El Nino” appeared in that paper, but they avoided to say that there was an El Nino in 1997-98.

richard
February 6, 2017 5:29 am

Always amusing to read about the temp data. Even indoors and controlled conditions with high precision instruments it is hard to get accuracy to within 1C degree accuracy-
“Consider what you are trying to measure the temperature of. An example that seems simple at first is measuring room temperature to 1°C accuracy. The problem here is that room temperature is not one temperature but many. ( mostly estimated in Africa)
Figure 1 shows sensors at three different heights record the temperatures in one of Pico Technology’s storerooms. The sensor readings differ by at least 1°C so clearly, no matter how accurate the individual sensors, we will never be able to measure room temperature to 1°C accuracy.”
With NOAA able to estimate to tenths of a degree why don’t Picotech sub contract to them?
https://www.picotech.com/library/application-note/improving-the-accuracy-of-temperature-measurements

richard
Reply to  richard
February 6, 2017 6:43 am

cont.
“Conclusion
High precision temperature measurement is possible through the use of well-specified and suitably calibrated sensors and instrumentation. However, the accuracy of these measurements will be meaningless unless the equipment and sensors are used correctly’
NOAA don’t even need temp stations in Africa.
Outstanding work NOAA.

Reply to  richard
February 6, 2017 7:04 am

comment image
This is the range within which the controversy lies.

AndyG55
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
February 6, 2017 9:59 am

That’s more than the highly beneficial natural warming since before the industrial age

February 6, 2017 6:22 am

Anybody know the reason why NOAA archives the v2 precip data but does not archive the v2 temperature data online? The web page refers to the climate temperature and precip data, but the FTP directory does not appear to contain an archive of the temp data:
ftp://ftp.ncdc.noaa.gov/pub/data/ghcn/v2/

Resourceguy
February 6, 2017 6:50 am

That scandal dwarfs Watergate IMO.

4caster
February 6, 2017 7:04 am

Steve (Paris), Smart Rock, and Michael Palmer: Thank you for your kind words, but it would be personally unwise for me to provide further details in this setting. I would of course happily participate in any official investigation, e.g. Congressional.
Tim Ball: You stated that it is time for national weather agencies to close and be replaced by data collection agencies only, as they are consistently wrong. The real value in national weather agencies is not in day to day weather forecasting, but in the watches, warnings, and advisories issued for more dangerous weather. I liken this function to that provided by our military. As an old professor of mine asked (and I am paraphrasing), do we really want privatized meteorological, military and emergency management services? Specifically regarding weather, government operation would also preclude the possibility of conflict of interest, or even the appearance of conflict of interest, from sponsors and/or subscribers. The public/private debate has, of course, been longstanding, and will obviously continue as there are pros and cons for both sides. I would advocate not throwing out the baby with the bath water, but instead draining the (swampy) water, specifically in regard to NOAA and NWS. In my experience, private weather concerns have not been significantly better on average than government operations in day to day weather forecasting. Your mileage may vary, however.
I do not believe there will be very many additional whistleblowers as time moves forward. There may be a couple, but it is just too personally dangerous to do so for many reasons: financial, reputational, and personal are but a smallish subset.

February 6, 2017 7:15 am

You can see why there was resistance to the CDR process set up by Bates. Scientists have been using less than ethical tricks that would fail Bates’ quality checks.
Karl modifying the matrix ratings for data also outright fraud as it directed scientists to “gold” data when that data was never assessed to earn the rank.
There are claims Bates’ process was broken (won award for broken process?) but the truth was there was fierce opposition within NOAA to having such a quality controlled archived store of data because it can all be traced right back to every sentence in a paper published from the data.
They don’t care if someone 8 years from now, maybe (McIntyre et al) finds problems with their data. The funding was got, the kudos dished out, the political beast served. We know that past mistakes\malfeasance does not get punished in the climate science arena.
So Bates was the Whistle blower I heard about early 2016.
I did note Zeke immediately jumped to damage limitation mode but he’s tried to distract from the real issues and his response does not deal with the majority of what Bates says.
Maybe Zeke should explain why he warms station data from stations that have moved latitudes south that should see their data cooled significantly per degree latitude of movement.
This all reminds me of the FIFA corruption, they hired some lawyer to check them out for corruption. He was shut out, report ignored.
Bates was working to improve the quality of science produced by NOAA’s climate folk. Ignored, objected against, shut down. What’s left to do but retire.
As we know, you retire first then speak out if you value funding\career\sanity. No surprise there.
We know what this paper from Karl was the minute it hit the publishers. Politically solicited, politically managed and directed. Politically paraded, for Paris.
If anything this gives Trump and some in congress some real leverage here. NOAA need to be purged by the activists and funding scammers.
To think Bill Grey had his funding cut and this lot have an endless kitty! It makes me want to punch faces, stamp throats.. not literally 😀

Reply to  Mark - Helsinki
February 6, 2017 7:19 am

*Bill Gray (RIP)

February 6, 2017 7:22 am

There is a lot written by many on the instability of the GHCN algo
You get very different results each time you run it, run it 50 times, and you might get 40 cooler runs, next 50 runs 45 hotter runs.
Is this how they did the K15 warming by simply doing runs until you get the desired results with a bit of mathemagics. “Test run test run.. (gets warmer).. Real real real real”

DonK31
February 6, 2017 7:43 am

Correct me if I’m wrong, please.
I can not see the data that were entered into the model
I can not see the code used by the computer to process the data. It’s been destroyed with the computer
There were no back ups..
I can not inspect the computer used to process the data. It’s been fried beyond all recognition.
How can I know that Karl’s numbers came from a process rather than merely pulled out of (the air)?

February 6, 2017 8:36 am

I wonder why the article mentions computer problems with GHCN but does not mention ERSSTv4? I thought the main complaint about the GISS change attributed to Karl’s “pausebuster” paper was about having GISS switch from ERSSTv3b to ERSSTv4.

knr
February 6, 2017 9:17 am

The fun part of all of this is that students currently taking science degrees have drummed into them the scientific approach and the importance of such ideas as reproduce ability and data quality and control .
They you get ‘professional’ like Karl that display less skills in this area than the students do and you wonder , is there actually any standards at all in climate ‘science’ ?

fretslider
February 6, 2017 9:26 am

Mail on Sunday launches the first salvo in the latest war against climate scientists
David Rose penned an attack described by expert as “so wrong it’s hard to know where to start”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/climate-consensus-97-per-cent/2017/feb/05/mail-on-sunday-launches-the-first-salvo-in-the-latest-war-against-climate-scientists#comment-92665141
No mention of Dr Bates!

Berényi Péter
February 6, 2017 9:37 am

It’s rising.

Bruce Ploetz
February 6, 2017 9:38 am

This topic is being featured on Rush Limbaugh today.

Reply to  Bruce Ploetz
February 6, 2017 9:41 am

🏁

February 6, 2017 9:40 am

Karlgate/NOAAgate story has legs.
John

Resourceguy
February 6, 2017 9:57 am

Except religions are not moved much by revelations of their key players, even when the documents are presented.

Lucius von Steinkaninchen
February 6, 2017 10:12 am

… And exactly *zero* news sites of the liberal media are publishing news on that. As is tradition.
If and when the fallout intensifies then there will be lots of damage control articles of “NOAA did nothing wrong”. Kind of like what happened during Climategate.

Griff
Reply to  Lucius von Steinkaninchen
February 6, 2017 10:20 am

Outside of the skeptic blogosphere, no on has heard of ‘Climategate’. That was also a non-story.

Gerald Machnee
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 10:56 am

More nonsense from Griff.

Alan Robertson
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 11:00 am

Outside of the skeptic blogosphere, no one has heard of ‘Griff’.

Schrodinger's Cat
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 11:28 am

Griff, I can assure you that Climategate was not a non-story. The whitewashes that followed convinced nobody. The stance by some climate scientists, academia, the MSM and unconvinced members of the public has prevailed for years because conclusive evidence of fraud on the one hand or serious warming on the other is sadly lacking.
The final arbiter will be Mother Nature. Place your bets now. I tend to favour anything between cooling and gradual warming. Politically, I think the political climate has definitely changed. Trump has said that he will not support politicised science. Excellent, and the sooner that gets implemented, the better.
If Trump’s people are thorough, it seems to me that they will need a very large brush to clean out the stables. Honest science will get through in the end. I suspect that the climate change scam will last no more than five years.

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 11:49 am

Griff February 6, 2017 at 10:20 am
Outside of the skeptic blogosphere, no on has heard of ‘Climategate’.
Add all of President Trump’s Twitter follower’s.
Try to pay a attention, The President has referred to “Climategate”.
michael

Joel Snider
Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 12:34 pm

The Grifter’s flat lie of the day. Climategate was an example of a mass media push to shove the sh** back up in the horse. If you didn’t hear about it, Grift, maybe it’s because you got shoved up there too. Who could tell the difference?

Reply to  Griff
February 6, 2017 4:21 pm

Outside of the skeptic blogosphere, no one has heard of ‘Climategate’. That was also a non-story.

That comment is almost as brilliant as … “hide the decline”.

troe
Reply to  Lucius von Steinkaninchen
February 6, 2017 10:39 am

Whistleblowers are good when they blow the whistle on your political enemies and bad when its your friends. Is it any wonder that the MSM has lost all credibility. These are serious accusations of malfeasance in government service. They deserve to be investigated.

Odin2
February 6, 2017 10:28 am

I apologize if this has been posted before, but Dr. Curry has posted a response to Bates’ critics at her blog site.
https://judithcurry.com/2017/02/06/response-to-critiques-climate-scientists-versus-climate-data/

troe
Reply to  Odin2
February 6, 2017 11:18 am

Thank you for the link. A point by point response to critiques of Dr. John Bates assertions. Excellent read with promises of more details to come.

Amber
February 6, 2017 11:26 am

Memo to Karl….. Don’t leave town .

Caligula Jones
February 6, 2017 11:26 am

In case you’re curious, the “debunking” from the Usual Suspects sounds very much like this:
http://www.scientologynews.org/statements/abc-news/church-of-scientology-statement-leah-remini.html
Seriously, if it wasn’t for character assassination, warmunists would be mute.

Reply to  Caligula Jones
February 6, 2017 11:38 am

Indeed, the fact that they can’t take any criticism, and at least pay some kind of lip service to taking concerns seriously, is a giant red flag that they are only interested in maintaining their status quo.
Instead the tribal drums just pound louder.
Andrew

Caligula Jones
Reply to  Bad Andrew
February 6, 2017 12:33 pm

I thought this part was particularly relevant:
“the high level of ethics and decency Scientologists are expected to maintain”
Outside of Scientologists, I haven’t seen a group that believes its ethics are as high as climate scientists – with as little proof.

J. Hellberg
Reply to  Caligula Jones
February 6, 2017 3:56 pm

It’s how their horde of bloggers posing as scientifically credible ”analysts” drove all the scientists out of science.

Mike the Morlock
February 6, 2017 11:36 am

It seems that HadCRUT4 had adjustments made to try and reconcile the confusion with pre bouy measurements.
This may be why Hadley has not embraced “Karl”
The linked paper is informative, it seems people have been working on the issue of buckets (types) and engine intakes.
considering Hadley’s fix predated “Karl” was there any internal discussion as to its merit?
Any thoughts anyone?
michael
“Multiple realisations of EIT adjustments were also developed
for HadSST3. For measurements obtained in the North
Atlantic between 1970 and 1994, adjustments were generated
from the EIT errors of Kent and Kaplan (2006). Adjustments
for other regions and years were derived by taking the
best estimate for the average EIT error from the literature
to be 0.2 ◦C too warm. Note that “strictly speaking” adjustments
are intended to be relative to the mix of observations
in the respective dataset reference period (in this case 1961–
1990) rather than corrections back towards “true” values.
HadSST3 has been combined with the fourth version of
the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) near-surface land air temperature
dataset, CRUTEM4 (Jones et al., 2012), to produce
a new global instrumental surface temperature record, HadCRUT4
(Morice et al., 2012)”
The link covers more about adjustments.
http://www.ocean-sci.net/9/683/2013/os-9-683-2013.pdf

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  Mike the Morlock
February 6, 2017 11:40 am

The linked paper is informative, it seems people have been working on the issue of buckets (types) and engine intakes.
oops add,, for a hundred years,
the sources papers go back to the 1840s
michael

Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 11:44 am

Clearly, only the land record should be used for any policy purpose. It’s bad enough. The SST “record” is worse than worthless.

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  Gloateus Maximus
February 6, 2017 11:45 am

The instrumental record since 1850, that is.
Paleo data from sediment cores have some utility.

Joel Snider
February 6, 2017 12:11 pm

People’s behavior tends to give them away, and I couldn’t help notice the first thing Karl did after pushing this through was get the hell outta Dodge.

Gloateus Maximus
Reply to  Joel Snider
February 6, 2017 12:19 pm

Smart move, with a new sheriff in town. Following in Hansen’s horse hooves.

Voltron
February 6, 2017 12:49 pm

A rebuttal appeared on a sci-fi news and entertainment website here: http://www.blastr.com/badastronomy/2017-2-6/sorry-climate-change-deniers-global-warming-pause-still-never-happened
I was encouraged to see the majority of comments actually deriding the author and CAGW in general. Hopefully these comments get to hang around.

Captain Dave
Reply to  Voltron
February 6, 2017 2:35 pm

I don’t have time to go through 800+ comments to see if anyone else mentioned this, but from Bishop Hill’s comments comes another rebuttal, a bit more formal:
http://icarus-maynooth.blogspot.com.au/2017/02/on-mail-on-sunday-article-on-karl-et-al.html?spref=tw

Reply to  Captain Dave
February 6, 2017 3:02 pm

Yes. It was posted ,a href=”https://wattsupwiththat.com/2017/02/04/bombshell-noaa-whistleblower-says-karl-et-al-pausebuster-paper-was-hyped-broke-procedures/”>here.
Look at my replies and try to think about them.
Then consider this. That was the best defence the guy could come up with.
His career and reputation on the line and that was it.

Erin
February 6, 2017 1:05 pm

If this story does get legs, Dr. Bates better get ready to be vilified. “When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When the facts aren’t on your side , pound the table.” Dr Bates will be the table.

February 6, 2017 1:33 pm

Silly question, I’m sure, but has the character assassination already begun?

Neo
February 6, 2017 1:53 pm

Does this violate the 2001 Information Quality Act ?

NowyKopernik
February 6, 2017 2:43 pm

If I was President Trump I’d give the Pausegate whistleblower the National Medal of Freedom
If the ClimateGate leaked e-mails were akin to the Boston Massacre of 1770 an early event of protest after passage of the Townshend Acts in 1767, the PauseGate Whistleblower is akin to the Boston Climate Tea Party of 1773 –it is significant, yet still somewhat peripheral to the crux of the overall matter. We are still waiting for the Climate version of Lexington Green when we will directly confront the forces of “Climatism” and we will be able to say as Captain Parker did on Lexington Green that April morning in 1775 “Stand your ground. Don’t fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war let it begin here.”
It really matters-not what the surface temperature record may or may not have been over some recent years. The whole concept of trusting more or less reliable data, from randomly distributed stations, non-systematically collected over the past hundred years; manipulating it in unknown and unreproducible ways is an exercise in hubris. However, the crux of the matter — our version of “Taxation with Representation” — is using some lousy linear fits to noise to justify Global Control over private citizen’s behavior.

Mike the Morlock
Reply to  NowyKopernik
February 6, 2017 3:20 pm

NowyKopernik February 6, 2017 at 2:43 pm
Nowy The soldiers were found not guilty. John Adams was their lawyer. It was a credit to the colonial american court system.
wrong comparison.
michael

kim
Reply to  NowyKopernik
February 7, 2017 6:00 am

Well, it’s a nice myth, and a relevant picture, but Captain Parker ordered his troops to disperse. The British then ran amok, indelibly marking, for Adams, the injustice of the event. Brilliant work by Adams.
============

kim
Reply to  kim
February 7, 2017 6:04 am

The Concord Minutemen marched out to meet the British, and when they met them they turned around and escorted the British into Concord, with fife and drums.
There was a great deal of comedy that day, but nobody was laughing at the result.
=======================

kim
Reply to  kim
February 7, 2017 6:13 am

NowyK hints at the relevance, though. Climate skeptics fire at will, and from cover, on the lockstep consensus, which is now in panic running for home.
=============

kim
Reply to  kim
February 7, 2017 6:25 am

Er, the ‘Adams’ of whom I speak @ 6:00 AM was firstnamed Samuel.
===============

February 6, 2017 2:48 pm

Surely NOAA’s climate focused staff have nothing to fear from additional whistleblowers, right?
Surely NOAA’s climate focused staff eagerly wants to embrace a critical investigation of its research practices and data management, right?
Surely NOAA’s climate focused staff wants to save taxpayers money by downsizing all redundant staff that promote only warming instead of embracing open minded scientific skeptical attititude, right?
Surely NOAA’s climate focused staff wants justice served on those members who have intentionally created false warming papers/manipulated data, right?
Surely NOAA’s climate focused staff embraces the brand new NOAA mission (under the new executive admin) to “Make NOAA Great Again”, right?
What did you all say? Dear NOAA climate focused staff members please speak louder because I didn’t hear you respond.
John

Mark
February 6, 2017 5:41 pm

More speaking out.

Mark Johnson
February 6, 2017 5:46 pm

This is ugly, Anthony. This entry should be pinned to the top for a time.

PeppyKiwi
February 6, 2017 11:06 pm

Just emailed the BBC as follows. It will be interesting to see what response, if any, I get.
Dear Sir/Madam,
I read this article with interest, but can find no reference to it on the BBC. Given the numerous articles featuring NOAA on your website, I wonder if you will feature it soon. It is a strange world when the Mail on Sunday provides more balanced coverage of the climate change debate than the BBC….
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-4192182/World-leaders-duped-manipulated-global-warming-data.html#reader-comments

Griff
Reply to  PeppyKiwi
February 7, 2017 3:26 am

The first thing a BBC fact checker would find is a long list of climate scientists completely refuting the article, which demonstrably posted a misleading chart.
The whole story is propaganda/fake news.
why would they mention it?
This stuff only circulates on skeptic websites. It is a non-story, like climategate, which wasn’t a gate.

Reply to  Griff
February 7, 2017 4:54 am

Griff,
The John Bates whistleblowing story is growing.
Reasonable people will say there was climategate (aka HADCRUgate) now there is Karlgate (aka NOAAgate) and so they will think about what has that other similar major gov’t climate organization been doing; that is what has NASA GISS been doing with the temperature record?
John

angech
Reply to  Griff
February 7, 2017 5:11 am

Two different columns page 3 and ? page 9 in the Australian newspaper today Griff.
Askeptic but mainstream newspaper.
Been here too many times before and seen wheels fall off but the US senate may keep it rolling. Hope you are wrong.

eyesonu
Reply to  Griff
February 7, 2017 9:51 pm

Griff,
Within the 3 posts on WUWT on this topic there are now 1400 comments. Looks like it is getting a lot of attention. You want to tell us how many other viewers there may be? You have a lot of damage control ahead of you on this one.

eyesonu
Reply to  Griff
February 7, 2017 10:14 pm

Griff,
I checked out coverage on other sites. Top story on FOX. Daily Mail has over 2100 comments. You better get busy if you want to squash this one.

February 7, 2017 12:19 pm

Bates needs to be appointed head of NOAA, right now.
The contempt for scientific rigor on display over there is appalling, disgraceful, and destructive.

February 7, 2017 2:01 pm

In a sane world, from this point forward ANY argument put forth by Nick Stokes would be ignored.
I, unlike some few others, have limited tolerance for a demonstrated ‘dissembler’ of his stature and persistence, and NOTWITHSTANDING a cogent argument put forth once in a great while.
“Subjects of Deceit: A Phenomenology of Lying”
https://books.google.com/books?id=zZ8mG_tvp6UC&pg=PA50&lpg=PA50&dq=lying+dissembling+and+deceit&source=bl&ots=xheRsjmX86&sig=8zSxpz-4JXWLdHTFiCcFKbT2-q0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidl-b3_P7RAhUPxGMKHZLZBHQQ6AEIKjAD#v=onepage&q=lying%20dissembling%20and%20deceit&f=false
“Life’s Extremes: Pathological Liar vs. Straight Shooter”
http://www.livescience.com/17407-pathological-liars-honest-psychology.html
“I’m Not Lying, I’m Telling a Future Truth. Really.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/06/health/06mind.html

Paul belanger
February 7, 2017 9:35 pm

My take on this.
Any douchbag can conjure up a bu$$hit paper.
What I want to see is/are the name/s of the reviewer/s. those are the folks entrusted with the integrity of the scientific method and community. They need to be outed, as the last bulwark against fraud any misdemeanors on their part needs to be dealt with most severely.

Philip Schaeffer
February 8, 2017 4:43 pm

https://phys.org/news/2017-02-major-global-defended.html
“The hubbub was sparked when retired NOAA data scientist John Bates claimed in a blog post that his boss, then-director of the National Centers for Environmental Information Thomas Karl, “constantly had his ‘thumb on the scale’—in the documentation, scientific choices and release of datasets—in an effort to discredit the notion of a global warming hiatus” and rushed a study published in the journal Science before international climate negotiations.
Bates said in an interview Monday with The Associated Press that he was most concerned about the way data was handled, documented and stored, raising issues of transparency and availability. He said Karl didn’t follow the more than 20 crucial data storage and handling steps that Bates created for NOAA. He said it looked like the June 2015 study was pushed out to influence the December 2015 climate treaty negotiations in Paris.
However Bates, who acknowledges that Earth is warming from man-made carbon dioxide emissions, said in the interview that there was “no data tampering, no data changing, nothing malicious.”
“It’s really a story of not disclosing what you did,” Bates said in the interview. “It’s not trumped up data in any way shape or form.””

Philip Schaeffer
February 9, 2017 3:33 am

Anyone? Can anyone actually point me to a transcript of the interview with Dr Bates? My questions keep disappearing, and I’m starting to get the impression that my question isn’t welcome here. Can anyone point me in the direction of a transcript of the interview between Dr Bates and Mr Rose?

Scottar
February 15, 2017 1:10 am

Popular Science disputes Dr. Bate’s claim. Comments?
Do not buy the House Science Committee’s claim that scientists faked data until you read this
No credible evidence supports that NOAA fabricated data; evidence still points to climate change
By Kendra Pierre-Louis February 6, 2017
Debating is healthy, I’m not for either side yet.