
Guest essay by Eric Worrall
Senator Sheldon Whitehouse, until recently a leading figure in the campaign to prosecute climate skeptics under RICO laws, now wants bipartisan support to fix the problems with Obama’s clean energy policies.
To Slow Global Warming, We Need Nuclear Power
By LAMAR ALEXANDER and SHELDON WHITEHOUSEDEC. 21, 2016
If 20 fire marshals came around and told us our houses were about to burn down, we’d buy some fire insurance. So when the leading science academies in 20 developed countries, along with several major American corporations and the national security community, all tell us that burning fossil fuels is causing dangerous changes to the climate, we think it’s time for the United States to get serious about clean energy. It also means supporting safely operating nuclear power plants that produce carbon-free electricity.
Already, 60 percent of our carbon-free electricity comes from the 99 nuclear reactors that dot the nation’s map, from Avila Beach, Calif., to Seabrook, N.H. These reactors provide low-cost, reliable electricity for the United States, which uses nearly 20 percent of the world’s electricity. But over the next decade, at least eight of these reactors are scheduled to shut down. That will push up carbon emissions from the American electricity sector by nearly 3 percent, according to the United States Energy Information Administration.
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Unfortunately, some of our federal policies to encourage clean energy, such as the Clean Energy Incentive Program within President Obama’s Clean Power Plan, do not explicitly include or incentivize nuclear power. Likewise, some states have chosen to adopt policies, such as renewable portfolio standards, that do not include or incentivize nuclear power.
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Read more: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/opinion/to-slow-global-warming-we-need-nuclear-power.html
Sheldon Whitehouse’s co-author is Lamar Alexander, a centrist Republican senator. Alexander’s Wikipedia entry notes he is one of the most bipartisan Republican members of the Senate.
Senator Whitehouse seems to have been consistent in his support for nuclear power, which is unusual for a green. But his approach to encouraging the development of US nuclear potential, by putting a price on carbon, in my opinion would be an unmitigated disaster.
Under a carbon tax, nuclear industry players would have no incentive to improve their product. Why should nuclear power companies take the risk of attempting to develop cheaper, safer nuclear technology, when they could receive a much safer return on investment by spending that potential research cash on schmoozing politicians, lobbying politicians to crank up carbon taxes on fossil fuel competitors?
Nuclear power has the potential to be cheaper than coal, but realising this potential will require a serious political effort to remove bureaucratic roadblocks – to establish that passive safe systems really are safe, that all the hideously expensive multiply redundant containment and cooling systems required by current generation active safe systems are not required for next generation nuclear designs.
If Senator Whitehouse genuinely wants more nuclear power, he should have a go at dismantling the red tape which makes nuclear power uncompetitive, rather than putting his effort into trying to imprison political opponents, and bankrupt coal companies.
Apparently, ol’ Sheldon has no idea the green monster he and his political allies have empowered. Does he actually think the greenie activists, who hate oil, natural gas, hydro, and give only lip service to wind, but try and block it when it’s THIER neighborhood, will really let nuclear power be implemented… anywhere? Ever?
This is what happens when morons speak and act without regard for consequences or the slightest thread of common sense.
Question about nuclear reactors and nuclear waste…
* nuclear reactor produces a lot of heat
* which vaporizes water into steam
* which spins a turbine
* which generates electricity
Meanwhile
* nuclear waste produces a lot of heat
* has to be stored away and continuously cooled. Huh?!?!?!
Waste heat reclamation is not a new idea. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_heat_recovery_unit Note that nuclear waste has to be stored somewhere, so you might as well get some power out of it in the process. Doing so would slightly reduce demand for new fuel, which would hurt the uranium mining industry slightly.
BTW, the Fukushima fiasco was due to nuclear waste containment losing cooling power. The waste containment area easily survived the initial quake. The earthquake knocked out the regular power grid, and the tsunami knocked out the backup diesel generators for cooling. With no cooling, the water in the containment tanks heated up and eventually boiled off. The waste then heated up enough to start burning. If the Fukushima waste containment area had been running waste heat recovery, it could’ve survived. Any extra electricity for the national grid would’ve been gravy.
Any obvious flaws with the idea?
Yes, what makes you think the nuclear industry does not already do it?
Steam from decay heat is used for steam turbine driven pumps which provide water to cool the core. These systems worked for days longer than design requirements.
The flaw in Walter’s idea is that the decay heat will not produce enough steam after a few days. After that it was thought that portable equipment would take over.
At Fukushima, the physical damage at the site slowed rigging temporary equipment.
Think about it this way. We know that core damage will not hurt people. Killing workers to prevent it, is stupid.
Nuclear power accomplishes squat (What exact real problem does nuclear power actually solve?) until you electricate the transportation sector.
Now calculate how many Wind Turbines and/or Solar panels are needed just to power all highway and railroad transportation, Determine total cost and factor in the cost of transmission lines for rail. Determine future value, for the year when the ice melts, and seems like you could raise the elevation of most coastal cities or build dykes for less. Especially if you include just a meager interest, Invest it in needed endeavors and you would be orders of magnitude ahead.
If nuclear power is chosen as an alternative due to economic or energy mix considerations that’s fine . If it’s to stop global warming then it’s futile because there is no global warming problem. The last thing I would want to see is the warmists think they’ve solved the problem in 50 years time because when it didn’t warm dangerously it was because of all the new nuclear plants that were built in the 2020s. I guarantee most people think that the measures taken to fix the hole in the ozone layer ( another non problem) actually worked or when the barrier reef recovers naturally it’s because there is a carbon tax. The only way to stop global warming or to stop climate change is to make people fully aware and make them realise they have been conned. The reality is that people by nature are trusting and therefore extremely gullible and vulnerable. Even when they see obvious contradictions they will turn to people they should be able to trust such as teachers, scientists, religious figures, and be sucked in by their inane comments. The way to fix a non problem is to in fact to convince them by argument , something that is actively discouraged by the AGW high priests.
“..all tell us that burning fossil fuels is causing dangerous changes to the climate.” Was I asleep and missed the dangerous changes?
If we keep on forcing higher and higher costs on our economies I know that we will all be poorer.
“Was I asleep and missed the dangerous changes?”
No, you weren’t asleep. The scientists making this claim got it wrong.
There have been No dangerous changes to the Earth’s atmosphere or weather due to humans. It’s business as usual. What happens today has happened in the past. Nothing new to see here. Nothing unprecedented. Scientists who make such claims should provide examples of dangerous changes, instead of expecting people to take their word for it only. Declaring something is true is not sufficient.
a very punchable face he has…
Sheldon should change his surname to “Whitehorse”.
Bumper sticker: “More Nukes, Less Kooks”
Sheldon Whitehouse a doppelganger for John Laroquette’s character in “Stripes”
Close enough, with lighter hair, good call. They both make you want to slap ’em silly.
Brian & jimmyJimmy,
If I had the means I would try to set up a booster/donor lunch meeting between you two and the good Senator.
Lots of unsupported assertions are being made here that greatly reducing, or even eliminating, NRC regulatory oversight over commercial nuclear power would greatly reduce its costs and thus make nuclear fully competitive with natural gas for electric power generation.
I was working nuclear construction in the United States in the mid-1980’s and saw first hand what factors were driving costs up and were impeding the industry’s progress in preparing itself for an accelerated growth in nuclear power. A decade ago in the mid-2000’s, I was involved for a time in estimating the costs of the latest nuclear construction projects. And so I have a good deal of insight as to what the industry’s cost drivers actually are, especially for new construction.
A recitation of the history of past cost growth problems in nuclear power, and of their fundamental causes, is in order here.
In the late 1970’s and early 1980’s, the regulatory environment became much more complex with a series of added regulatory requirements on nuclear plant design and construction. At the same time, the large 1300 megawatt plants were being constructed for the first time; they were being built without a prototype; and there were many things in those new designs which had to be tested and proven out for the first time in operational service.
Also at the same time, the anti-nuclear activists switched tactics. They had gotten nowhere in the courts with their arguments concerning basic nuclear safety issues, and so they began to focus on emerging quality control issues with the plant construction projects. That is to say, they began to focus their efforts on the provable lack of effort on the part of the senior managers of large nuclear construction projects towards meeting the quality assurance standards those managers had committed to in their NRC license applications.
The NRC had assumed in the mid-1970’s that one utility was much like another in its ability to manage a large and very complex nuclear construction project. This turned out not to be the case. In the mid 1970’s, the NRC had given construction licenses to utilities which were not capable of managing the demanding task of building a nuclear power plant to strict quality assurance requirements while at the same time working under significant cost and schedule pressures. By the early 1980’s, the wide differences which existed among the power utilities regarding their basic competency for managing a large nuclear construction project had become painfully apparent.
Those nuclear construction projects which had weak project management systems and which suffered from a lack of commitment to maintaining high quality assurance standards were in deep trouble well before Three Mile Island occurred. Their lack of commitment to an effective quality assurance program was reflected in their tendency to place primary responsibility for quality assurance on the Quality Assurance organization, an organization which is not equipped for handling that job. The QA organization is a means of communicating to management whether or not the project’s QA objectives are being met. But it is not a substitute for management. For those projects which got into deep trouble, managers at every level of the project organization had abdicated responsibility for the project’s quality to the QA organization.
The variety of problems these late 1970’s and early 1980’s nuclear projects were suffering were compounded by other basic weaknesses in their project management systems. Matrix management systems were common at that time, but these kinds of systems do not enforce enough internal discipline to keep a complex nuclear project on track. Every nuclear project which got into trouble in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s had a matrix management system. Another issue was the lack of project configuration control and the lack of contractor interface control. Projects which lacked effective configuration control and effective contractor interface control saw their budgets being eaten by the nuclear construction contractors.
Inside those projects which got into serious trouble, middle managers and senior managers did not want to hear bad news of any kind. Managers at lower levels knew what the problems were, but by the time the message got to the senior managers, it had become so attenuated it was unrecognizable. Whistleblowers on the job became fed up with management’s lack of commitment to quality construction standards and went outside the project to the anti-nuclear activists. Those activists then made sure these very real QA problems were introduced into the NRC licensing process.
Why was it that in the late 1970’s and the early 1980’s, it was primarily the whistleblowers who were exposing these quality assurance issues, not the NRC’s own professional staff?
It was because at the time, the NRC viewed QA issues as not representing a danger until the plant was about to go operational. And so the NRC focused its oversight efforts on the last phases of the licensing process when the plant was about to go for an operating license. This meant that a project’s substandard construction practices which had been in place for years had remained unchallenged over most of the project’s life, and so the project had become complacent because it hadn’t heard from the NRC.
In other words, no news was good news for these projects. But then when the anti-nuclear activists raised issues with how the plant had been constructed, issues which had been discovered by whistleblowers on the job, these projects began asking the question, where was the NRC in the earlier phases of the project when its oversight and input was most needed?
Those nuclear projects which were successfully completed in the 1980’s were the ones which had strong project management systems and which viewed the NRC as a resource, not as an adversary. By the late 1980’s, most all of the earlier problems with nuclear construction had been resolved and the industry was well positioned to expand, had the market for nuclear power plants continued to hold up.
But this was not to be. The weight of past problems and of increasing competition from coal and from natural gas put an end to nuclear construction in the US for a period of twenty-years. More recently, the emergence of the fracking boom and severe competition from cheap natural gas is putting an end to the nascent American nuclear renaissance.
Those in the United States who say the solution to nuclear power’s lack of economic competitiveness with cheap natural gas is to remove the strict regulatory requirements government now imposes on the industry are living in a dream world.
Having been involved for a time a decade ago in estimating the costs of the latest nuclear construction projects, my best guess is that removing the NRC’s regulatory burdens might reduce US nuclear construction costs ten to fifteen percent. But that reduction isn’t nearly enough to overcome the lifecycle cost advantages now enjoyed by natural gas.
But more important than that, a decision to greatly reduce government oversight over nuclear power would greatly reduce the public’s confidence that nuclear is safe. Is that loss of public confidence worth a cost reduction of perhaps fifteen percent at best in nuclear construction costs — a cost reduction which has every probability of being completely illusory?
Not much in Betablocker’s comments to disagree with, though I could point out that type approval puts more emphasis on the manufacturer and removes much of the oversight burden of the utility or plant owner. But the cost of nuclear power is mostly construction and administration costs. Natural gas plants are far more sensitive to fuel costs. What happens if the price of gas goes up? We can’t build a nuke in a just a year or two to meet market demand. Looking into a secure energy future is a valid job of the national government.
We need more CO2. There is no need to be concerned about CO2 emissions in North America as the continent produces no net CO2 as it is a CO2 SINK. America has completed the job that the AGW fools wanted them to do,
Just as it has completed the Pollution effort with the continents AIR and WATER now clean, by the original standards started and aimed for in the ’70s. It will get even cleaner just with the continuing efforts already underway.
The current G III+ fission plants answer all the concerns we critical scientists and engineers had about nuclear power. Before the green loons turned it into an emotional reason to vote for them, and demonize nuclear power. Build and operating licesning now control schedules and financial costs.
MSRs have a problem observed during their limited use, Eddy currents creating nuclear “hot spots” in the molten salt flows, could and did, occasionally create areas of enhanced and uncontrolled spikes in nuclear reactions. The NRC would go crazy before licensing such possibilities, Recall it took the NRC almost 40 years to license the mere improvements to the 99 reactors operating every day for years in the USA. How long for a completely new design?
Fusion is now proven, and close to happening in a few decades ,All the maddening instabilities have been seen understood and controlled now, And I think it is very likely and a wagerable be,t that a commercial Fusion power plant would be built and licensed long before an MSR. Even starting today before ITER is even finished. Indeed if the iTER were just starting design fresh today, it would be from 1/3 to 1/2 the size and cost. In the long run from mid-century on, Fusion will answer Mankinds clean, inexhaustable, power needs for billions of years, Enough to power elelctric cars and desalinate the oceans and irrigate the desserts.
“Fusion is now proven….”
Not for producing electricity. I have to wonder what degree mill provided stas a degree in mechanical engineering.
Just for the record we do not need an ‘inexhaustable’ supply of power. We need a finite supply. This is not a problem for most engineers.
First operation of ITER is now projected in the year 2035, as the project is now $4.6 Billion over budget. It’s turning into an international jobs program.
http://www.firefusionpower.org/ITER_Science_Cho_Clery_050516.pdf
If I were king, I would cut their budget to 1/3, return half of the savings to reducing the deficit, and split the remainder between a half dozen small scale hot fusion programs and (dare I say it?) another dozen cold fusion science projects. There are now two underfunded U.S. cold fusion university labs in addition to the commercially underfunded projects.
Senator Whitebread just made a transitional statement supporting nuke power . Well at least he is politically astute . The exaggerated global warming con is done .
Nuke power offers stable affordable power with some legit risks but it has always been the not so secret contradiction to those greenwashers who really would welcome people other than themselves to be living in caves .
How many Democrat politicians realize they will now be be in the political wilderness attached to a party
blowing an election run by their extreme green paymaster ? Now is the time to find a new brand if they want to be re-elected . A Demo -Green Party ain’t going to fly .
“Fukishima 2? radiation deaths, maybe 1600 from unnessary relocations.”
No one was hurt by radiation in Japan.
The death toll from the natural disaster was about 19,000.
Debate hypothetical deaths all you like but I would suggest that you take a few minutes to learn the lessons from real fatalities.
Let me sum up nuclear power in the US. Perfect safety record. No one hurt by radiation.
More electricity produced with fission than any other country. France is a distant second.
The longest running reactors.
One new reactor came on line in 2016. Four under construction as a result of incentives in the 2005 US Energy Bill.
I just checked. Watts Bar 2 (the new one) is running at 100%. Good for them. http://nuclearstreet.com/nuclear-power-plants/
Can we dispense with the proliferation argument against nukes? Any GOVERNMENT which wants nukes will get them regardless of whether it runs a civilian nuclear power program. Look up how Stalin got his first bomb or the U.S. for that matter.
The waste storage problem in the U.S. was caused by Jimmy Carter’s ban on reprocessing. A very stupid man. Our own peanut farmer in Australia was much smarter.
If you want to make nukes safer, build and operate them and develop better designs. Bureaucracy is the death of development. You only need to look at small airplanes to see the lack of progress in 80 years caused by government certification. I’m amazed anyone bothers to build small aircraft commercially. There were aircraft in the late 30’s which were as good as any modern aircraft. The Messerschmitt 108 springs to mind. Thank Paul Poberezny, the EAA and an FAA official with his heart in the right place, for Experimental homebuilts where much of the progress is being made. OK I’ve got an axe to grind, I own and fly a BD-4 and am President of the Australian chapter of EAA.
And don’t forget that expensive uranium enrichment is NOT NECESSARY. This is why the Canadians developed the CANDU reactor, which runs on natural uranium. (They were shut out of the Manhattan Project and had to think smarter.) Any reactor will produce plutonium, which can be separated during reprocessing. And then other reactors can be made from the resulting mixed-isotope plutonium–even weapon-grade plutonium production reactors.
So why haven’t the Canadians built an atomic bomb? Have you ever met a Canadian? Not their thing.
“Maybe we can just aim for equally safe but at much lower cost?”
Again it is the same argument. Anyone can make a claim about a paper reactors but it is not very likely that they can beat existing technology.
The economics of nukes are going to depend on on the delivered price of fossil fuels over the next 60 years. If you are buying imported fossil fuel, it becomes a drain on the economy.
Nuke plants benefit greatly from economies of scale and standardization. The nuke site I was at in China will have 6 – 1600 MWe LWRs designed for 60 years and will likely last twice as long. This one of many locations with multiple reactors.
The point here is that with the exception of wind and solar, utilities do not build power plants based on internet advice.
“it would take you at least 10 years ”
I am so old that I remember when we could build a nuke plant in 5 years. That plant and others have been providing 20% of US power for the for more than 20 years. That is what is called a proven solution. And it work everywhere all the time.
I would like Griff to calculate how long it will take for wind and solar to produce the same amount of power. The answer is an infinite time period. The reason is that wind and solar does not work for all practical purposes and then breaks long before the end of design. Aside from being impractical, grid storage of wind and solar needs something to store.
“offline for safety issues.”
It is a quality control issue. For it to be a safety issue, Griff would have to show that someone would be hurt. For example, Griff seems to like natural gas and solar. A quality control issue with a natural gas appliance or a rooftop PV do hurt people so they are safety issue.
Griff likes renewable energy because it sound goods. Not because he has exercised critical thinking.
He’d get a lot further if he dropped the crap analogy.