Actual press release: "Policy makers and ecologists must develop a more constructive dialogue to save the planet"

From the talk not action department and TRINITY COLLEGE DUBLIN comes this laughable press release:

the_end[1]


Policy makers and ecologists must develop a more constructive dialogue to save the planet

Dublin, Ireland, Tuesday July 19, 2016 – An international consensus demands human impacts on the environment “sustain”, “maintain”, “conserve”, “protect”, “safeguard”, and “secure” it, keeping it within “safe ecological limits”. But, a new Trinity College Dublin-led study that assembled an international team of environmental scientists shows that policy makers have little idea what these terms mean or how to connect them to a wealth of ecological data and ideas.

Progress on protecting our planet requires us to dispel this confusion, and the researchers have produced a framework to do just that.

Ian Donohue, assistant professor at Trinity, and leader of this study, said: “Human actions challenge nature in many ways. We lump these into a grab-bag of ideas we call ecological stability. We want nature to be stable in some sense of that word. But what do we know about stability from our theories and experiments? And how can that knowledge help policy makers? We offer some solutions to these important questions.”

In the paper published today in the journal Ecology Letters, Donohue and an international team of colleagues outline exactly what policy makers, ecological experimenters, and theoreticians all think about this term “stability.”

The answer is very different things — and there’s a real problem with this lack of agreement. Professor Donohue said: “We need to be talking about the same things, using the same language, so that what ecologists know can sensibly inform the choices of policy makers.”

“Consider this example” says Stuart Pimm, Doris Duke Chair of Conservation at Duke University, in the USA, and one of the paper’s co-authors. “There’s a lot of discussion about “tipping points” — the idea that there are boundaries beyond which, if we push nature it will collapse. There may be places where this happens, but while nature may work this way sometimes, there is no compelling argument that it must always.”

Why should this matter? Pimm responds: “if politicians think there are tipping points and the world hasn’t collapsed thus far, then it encourages policies that continue to degrade our world. If there isn’t a catastrophe so far, why worry? The more likely alternative is not a sudden change, but a progressive loss of fisheries, croplands, damage to all our natural worlds. A wrong view of nature can have disastrous consequences.”

So what can we do? Professor Donohue and his colleagues believe that the solution is to recognise that nature responds to human pressures in complex ways, even as policy makers often demand simple solutions. Acknowledging the need for better communication on the science-policy interface is essential.

Policy makers sometimes have designed crisp, clearly defined targets, such as several of those for the Intergovernmental Science-Policy Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services — a body broadly based on the more familiar IPCC that deals with climate change. “That’s good. The issue is when they have not. Our work identifies those discrepancies,” argues Donohue. “And we suggest solutions.”

Unfortunately, most of the policies examined by Professor Donohue and his colleagues contain terms that are ambiguous, or have multiple definitions that mean different things to different people. The recently announced United Nations Sustainable Development Goals are no exception.

Professor Donohue added: “This ambiguity is a huge problem as it means that we cannot measure progress, or indeed a lack of progress, towards achieving policy goals. This paralyses policy. Ecologists, policymakers and practitioners urgently need to develop a shared language in order to be more effective in managing the world’s ecosystems — our life-support system.”

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RAH
July 19, 2016 8:09 am

Ever notice how the green alarmists talk more about the message and how to more effectively convey it to convince people and not so much the data or science?

Reply to  RAH
July 19, 2016 8:23 am

And they also want to censor their critics.

george e. smith
Reply to  Steve Case
July 19, 2016 2:30 pm

Who is Doris Duke, and how did she get a whole University named after her ??
g

Reply to  Steve Case
July 19, 2016 6:19 pm

Doris Duke was a tobacco heiress and I’m pretty sure the university was named after one of her relatives/ancestors.

Mike McMillan
Reply to  Steve Case
July 20, 2016 7:53 am

Daisy Duke’s mother.
And ‘paralyses’ is a plural noun. The verb and adjective forms are spelled with a ‘z.’

Reply to  RAH
July 19, 2016 10:02 am

It’s a smart move when you don’t have data and science on your side.

M Seward
Reply to  Reality check
July 19, 2016 10:59 am

I don’t know about smart RC, its the only card left in their hand. Always was their only card actually.

p@dolan
Reply to  Reality check
July 19, 2016 12:59 pm

Adaptation of an old law school bromide: “When the Science is on your side, pound the Science. When the facts are on your side, pound the facts. When neither the Science nor the facts are on your side, pound the table!”

Reply to  Reality check
July 19, 2016 3:33 pm

Magicians use it every day, it’s called misdirection

Reply to  RAH
July 19, 2016 11:00 am

its called propaganda

george e. smith
Reply to  RAH
July 19, 2016 2:22 pm

We need a dialog on how to save us from policy makers and ecologists.
G

Michael of Oz
Reply to  RAH
July 19, 2016 2:33 pm

People that can’t control their emotions look to limit the freedoms of others, someone smarter than me, said something like that once.

July 19, 2016 8:21 am

“Unfortunately, most of the policies examined by Professor Donohue and his colleagues contain terms that are ambiguous, or have multiple definitions that mean different things to different people.”

That is by-design. It is not a flaw for the dishonest purveyors of climate pseudoscience and the Progs. For example, “climate change” is the ultimate ambiguous term. It can and does mean many different things to different groups. And it is used in a way that makes it meaningless… by-design in order to push an agenda.

Mark from the Midwest
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
July 19, 2016 8:39 am

The “eco-nerds” let the semantic genie out of the bottle a long time ago, let’s see them stuff it back in.
If anyone can find one phrase in “A Silent Spring” that has a concrete meaning I will buy them a double-scoop dark chocolate-cherry on a waffle cone from Moomers, (this offer applies only to the original store on Long Lake Road).

commieBob
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
July 19, 2016 8:53 am

… most of the policies examined by Professor Donohue and his colleagues contain terms that are ambiguous, or have multiple definitions that mean different things to different people.

Politicians hate that kind of ambiguity.

HARRY Truman famously asked to be sent a one-armed economist, having tired of exponents of the dismal science proclaiming “On the one hand, this” and “On the other hand, that”. link

Sadly, the folks with the simple clear answers are the ones most likely to be wrong.

Bottom line… The political expert who bores you with an cloud of “howevers” is probably right about what’s going to happen. The charismatic expert who exudes confidence and has a great story to tell is probably wrong. link

In this case ‘probably right’ means 51 or 52 percent and probably wrong means 60 percent. ie. the charismatic expert might be right about 40 percent of the time.

Prediction is very difficult, especially if it’s about the future. Niels Bohr (I always thought Yogi Berra said that)

The enviro-alarmists refuse to believe that.

schitzree
Reply to  commieBob
July 19, 2016 2:01 pm

“I never said half the things I said.”
Yogi Berra…maybe

PaulH
July 19, 2016 8:24 am

They say “save the planet” like the phrase has any real meaning at all. 😉

MarkW
Reply to  PaulH
July 19, 2016 9:11 am

I don’t believe my savings account is big enough to put the whole planet into it.

Trebla
Reply to  PaulH
July 19, 2016 9:25 am

And what exactly would the strategy be when the sun expands and incinerates the 4 inner planets?

Reply to  Trebla
July 20, 2016 12:30 am

The sun doesn’t expand, that’s old pseudo science.

Reply to  Trebla
July 20, 2016 12:22 pm

Mark:
I haven’t heard that before, and I can’t find anything contradicting the hypothesis that the sun will expand. Can you please share your information?

Gamecock
Reply to  PaulH
July 19, 2016 10:29 am

They say “save the planet” like the phrase has any real meaning at all. 😉
=============
10-4 Paul. George Carlin debunked that decades ago.

[warning: salty language]

Reply to  PaulH
July 19, 2016 10:37 am

..”world’s ecosystems — our life-support system.” I’d like to suggest Professor Donohue take some time out in the world’s ecosystem until her comprehends modern society and all that goes with it is our real life support system. He’ll work it once he contracts one of mother natures little cherubs .. like staph or some sort of flesh eating fungi.

Goldrider
Reply to  Karl
July 19, 2016 1:02 pm

You gotta remember–no one ever sat down in a highly-charged emotional state to blast big checks off to a dot-org because everything’s going GREAT! Desperation, hand-wringing, appeals to apocalypse are necessary to keep those funds coming. And there are so many MORE NGO’s nowadays.
As far as REAL environmental issues are concerned, how ’bout “First, do no harm?”

David Smith
July 19, 2016 8:25 am

Grade A b*ll*cks
That’s really all I need to say.

Reply to  David Smith
July 19, 2016 9:57 am

You mean ‘bollocks’, surely?

Tom Halla
July 19, 2016 8:25 am

But they are dependent on vague definitions for any credibility. Climate change is equated with AGW, and CAGW is presumed with no evidence. There is an old line about it not paying for a prophet to be too specific.

July 19, 2016 8:26 am

Donohue — “This ambiguity is a huge problem as it means that we cannot measure progress, or indeed a lack of progress, towards achieving policy goals.
Not quite. That ambiguity means they don’t know what they’re talking about.

MarkW
Reply to  Pat Frank
July 19, 2016 9:11 am

Ambiguity means never having to admit that you were wrong.

Tom in Florida
Reply to  MarkW
July 19, 2016 9:22 am

Or never have to say you’re sorry.

Reply to  MarkW
July 19, 2016 2:19 pm

Exactly. Sums it up perfectly. Not only that, they can hide anything in there, they can tweak it any which way they want it to go. From claimed victories (“Look it’s working!”) to up-scaling threat value, they’ve got it all covered if they keep from nailing down any kind of clear meaning.

Greater
Reply to  Pat Frank
July 20, 2016 6:57 am

Vagueness is the key to ambiguity….

Tom in Florida
July 19, 2016 8:27 am

““This ambiguity is a huge problem as it means that we cannot measure progress, or indeed a lack of progress, towards achieving policy goals.”
I suspect it is designed this way so there can be no measuring stick or accountability with which to defund projects.

TonyL
July 19, 2016 8:27 am

Unfortunately, most of the policies examined by Professor Donohue and his colleagues contain terms that are ambiguous, or have multiple definitions that mean different things to different people.

Multiple definitions and ambiguity are a feature, not a bug. This is politics, not science, after all. Deliberate obfuscation is a primary tool to push policies and agendas which would not stand a chance otherwise.

Reply to  TonyL
July 19, 2016 8:30 am

great minds think alike

John F. Hultquist
July 19, 2016 8:29 am

Professor Donohue added: “This ambiguity is a huge problem as it means that we cannot measure progress, or indeed a lack of progress, towards achieving policy goals. This paralyses policy.
Perhaps that’s a good thing.

Mark from the Midwest
Reply to  John F. Hultquist
July 19, 2016 8:44 am

I prefer gridlock in Washington, it means no new laws are getting passed

Reply to  Mark from the Midwest
July 19, 2016 9:03 am

The problem with gridlock is that too many wrongheaded laws are already passed. Changes or removal of these bad laws is as important as not passing new ones. Rather than gridlock, we need a clear clan-up of the legal and tax system, especially for businesses.

Reply to  Mark from the Midwest
July 19, 2016 9:21 am

I agree that is, in general, a good thing. But when a dishonest man comes along, and the People bestow enormous power on him, and then that man also decides to bypass the traditional checks and balances of a constitutional separation of powers…. we have a serious problem.
The US President and his installed minions have been for 6+ years effectively rewriting the nation’s laws whole-cloth while bypassing Congress. The constitutional remedy (the Founders foresaw this possibility) is impeachment and removal. But they set a high bar of 2/3 super-majority in the US senate for removal. We now have 46 gutless, ethics-challenged US Senators (out of 100) who have collectively given Mr Obama an “immunity idol” from removal. Obama realizes this, and it allows him to act in a lawless manner, only now checked by the US Courts on domestic issues.

Latitude
July 19, 2016 8:39 am

This should be fun….
They are going to clean up a science that would not exist without ambiguity…
…by trying to make it less ambiguous

July 19, 2016 8:43 am

A refreshing start would be for them to tell the truth for once.

Pat Swords
July 19, 2016 8:48 am

Irish academics are paid very high salaries, which are commensurate with their disconnect from the real world. They have consistently prepared documentation of appalling poor quality to justify the roll out of renewable energy and other climate change related measures. In particular participating on the UN IPPC documentation. Of interest is the below, which was used to justify a 40% renewable electricity target, nearly all wind based, for the Irish generation system, which has already blighted many parts of our landscape and cause a 50% rise in electricity bills:
http://www.uwig.org/irish_all_island_grid_study/workstream_2a.pdf
It’s worth looking at for its appalling poor quality, not least as it projected a maximum installed cost of €1.3 million per MW, when actual costs are €2 million per MW. The same type of shoddy work by Irish academics is to be seen in the below, particularly chapters 7 and 8:
http://www.ipcc.ch/report/srren/
One can see this when one delves into the drafts in the link above and the various comments.

Barbara
Reply to  Pat Swords
July 19, 2016 12:20 pm

How deeply are Irish RC organizations involved in this Irish situation?
For example, the RC Trocaire organization’s involvement in the divestment movement and climate change?

Barbara
Reply to  Pat Swords
July 19, 2016 3:26 pm

University College Dublin Foundation
UCD O’Brien Centre for Science
Donors include:
Eddie O’Connor, Irish wind turbine mogul.
http://www.ucdfoundation.ie/search/?q=campaign%20for%20science

Barbara
Reply to  Barbara
July 19, 2016 5:15 pm

OilPrice, April 25, 2012
‘Oilprice.com’s 5 Most Important Figures in U.S. Clean Energy’
Steven Chu
Dan Reicher
Elon Musk
Eddie O’Connor, Ireland
Paul Woods, The Algae King
http://www.oilprice.com/Alternative-Energy/Renewable-Energy/Oilprice.coms-5-Most-Influential-Figures-in-U.S.-Clean-Energy.html

Barbara
Reply to  Barbara
July 19, 2016 7:26 pm

GWEC/Global Wind Energy Council (Brussels)
‘Mainstream CEO Eddie O’Connor appointed as GWEC Global Ambassador’
Also named World Energy Policy Leader by Scientific American 2013.
http://www.gwec.net/mainstream-ceo-eddie-oconnor-appointed-as-gwec-global-ambassador
Mainstream Renewable Power, Ireland has wind projects in the U.S. and Canada

Barbara
Reply to  Barbara
July 20, 2016 4:25 pm

energy [r]evolution / GWEC – EREC – Greenpeace
A Sustainable World Energy Overlook, 290 pages, 2012
P.18: Policy changes
8 demands by Greenpeace, GWEC and EREC
Including:
Cap-and-trade
Priority access to the grid for renewable power generators
Feed-in tariff
Canadian tar sands are mentioned in this document.
http://www.energyblueprint.info/fileadmin/media/documents/2012/EnergyRevolution2012.pdf
Slow download.

Barbara
Reply to  Barbara
July 21, 2016 12:28 pm

GWEC, May, 2014
‘GWEC Board election and new Executive Committee’
Executive Committee:
Included: Robert Hornung, CANWEA/Canadian Wind Energy Association President.
http://www.gwec.net/gwec-board-election-new-executive-committee

July 19, 2016 8:51 am

“Unfortunately, most of the policies examined by Professor Donohue and his colleagues contain terms that are ambiguous, or have multiple definitions that mean different things to different people. “
Well, I’m glad they cleared that up. I was beginning to think were using vagaries on purpose to push an indefensible agenda or something.

n.n
July 19, 2016 8:53 am

The low-density “green” energy converters are taking a progressive toll on flora, fauna, and the environment.

Resourceguy
July 19, 2016 8:57 am

What pub was this written in?

Hoplite
Reply to  Resourceguy
July 19, 2016 12:42 pm

– following on from Anthony’s lead on using data to inform debate, try this for size: “Irish teenagers drink less than most Europeans of same age”
I know the trope of the drunken feckless Irish is an immutable and ineluctable view held by many English and some Americans. Don’t know which you are. Please try to keep up with the times and the latest research.
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/irish-teenagers-drink-less-than-most-europeans-of-same-age-1.2574012
Ps: anticipating the response by some that the work referred wasn’t written by teenagers I would respond: ‘you reap what you sow’

Dinsdale
July 19, 2016 8:58 am

There are so many problems with this story. First, humans are part of nature not separate from it. That’s the fundamental flaw in environmentalism. Second, nature isn’t stable across most timescales (certainly on a human scale). The world is always changing and always will. So trying to achieve “stability” is futile at best. Third, there is no such thing as a climate tipping point – we wouldn’t be here if there was based on past climate.

tony mcleod
Reply to  Dinsdale
July 19, 2016 7:06 pm

“there is no such thing as a climate tipping point”
From my reading Dinsdale the opposite is entirely plausible.

arthur4563
July 19, 2016 9:01 am

It’s not just tipping points that are non-existent. It’s global warming that is strangely absent , although
somehow these greenies have the amazing ability to ignore as irrelevant data unless it shows warming, somewhere, to some extent, regardles of how inconsequential. One cannot expect sensible logic from such people. They are guided by emotions that force them to continue to believe the fiction of a paid-for
opposition.

Dodgy Geezer
July 19, 2016 9:04 am

<i… “There’s a lot of discussion about “tipping points” — the idea that there are boundaries beyond which, if we push nature it will collapse. There may be places where this happens, but while nature may work this way sometimes, there is no compelling argument that it must always.”
Why should this matter? Pimm responds: “if politicians think there are tipping points and the world hasn’t collapsed thus far, then it encourages policies that continue to degrade our world. If there isn’t a catastrophe so far, why worry?….
Hmm…as a policy maker, I would say:
“I would certainly worry if I thought I was running into a catastrophe. But first I would want to be fairly sure about it. And if your track record of predicting disasters is uniformly wrong, I suggest that you get your prediction ability up to the stage where there is a better than 50% chance that you are right before coming to me and asking me to do anything about it…”

Gary
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer
July 19, 2016 9:16 am

I find it refreshing that Pimm would cast doubt on the “tipping point” concept, even if for a peculiar reason (politicians might not get excited). It’s likely he will get attacked for even suggesting such heresy.

tony mcleod
Reply to  Dodgy Geezer
July 19, 2016 7:13 pm

Allow me to change a couple of words Dodgy:
“the idea that there are boundaries beyond which, if we push nature it will collapse” – Change collapse to flip to a different phase or state. No one is suggesting the climate will “collapse”.
“there is no compelling argument that it must always.” There are plenty of compelling reasons to suggest it may. Raising the average Arctic a couple of degrees could dramatically alter the albedo such that it could remain ice-free for several decades. That would clearly represent a tipping point. It could tip back of course but that may take an extended period in the new phase.

Editor
July 19, 2016 9:17 am

Anyone with serious interest in the subject of the Science/Policy interface should start by reading The Rightful Place of Science: Science on the Verge and other books from the The Consortium for Science, Policy, and Outcomes at Arizona State University.

Editor
Reply to  Kip Hansen
July 19, 2016 9:30 am

Frequent readers here will recognize that Roger Pielke Jr.’s The Rightful Place of Science: Disasters & Climate Change is part of the same CSPO book series, it is available here at no or very low cost.

Bruce Cobb
July 19, 2016 9:19 am

Methinks they kissed the Baloneystone before writing this.

PiperPaul
July 19, 2016 9:20 am
n.n
Reply to  PiperPaul
July 19, 2016 9:25 am

That is the Profits’ prophecy.

n.n
July 19, 2016 9:22 am

Not ecologists. Conservation is principled, traditional, and no longer chic. More like “green” industry lobbyists and scientific mystics.

Steve C
July 19, 2016 9:23 am

Re “the talk not action department”.
“When all is said and done, a great deal more has been said than done.”
I wish I could remember who I’m quoting, but it’s spot on.

tadchem
July 19, 2016 9:24 am

The transition from rhetoric to logic is nearly impossible as the though processes involved are essentially incompatible. The panic-inducing rhetoric of the past 30 or so years of climate activism was crafted to motivate people, especially uncritical thinkers such as politicians and publicists. Any programs to actually take effective steps towards a clearly defined objectives require thinking that is very analytical and critical.

Ed
July 19, 2016 9:28 am

For clarity and an excellent distillation of actual facts and real-world implications of various climate policies, I recommend “The Moral Case for Fossil Fuels” by Alex Epstein. It’s written for non-technical persons and an easy read..