Guest essay by Eric Worrall
A tremendous political drama with broad ramifications for Global Climate Policy is unfolding in Britain, as referendum votes are tallied for whether Britain should remain part of the European Union.
While the general consensus is the result is running neck and neck, with an almost 50:50 split in the vote, Chris Hanretty, reader in Politics at the University of East Anglia, home of the infamous Climatic Research Unit, thinks the chances of Britain voting to remain part of the EU is zero.
EU referendum rolling forecasts
03:00 Fifth forecast update
My predictions continue to be much more pessimistic for Remain than the betting markets, though they seem to be in between estimates from Michael Thrasher and JP Morgan.
Predicted probability of Britain Remaining: 0
(81 of 382 areas reporting.)
Predicted vote share for Remain: 47.1 percent.
(90% prediction interval: 46.1 to 48.1 percent)
Read more: https://medium.com/@chrishanretty/eu-referendum-rolling-forecasts-1a625014af55#.rv1inwb7a
The British EU referendum vote has potentially major consequences for global climate policy. Prominent greens seem to want Britain to remain part of the anti-democratic EU, because this would bind elected British politicians to continue to adhere to strong European Union green targets.
A British vote to leave might even trigger a soviet style unravelling of the entire EU – France, Holland and Italy are also preparing to hold referendums to leave the EU, if Britain votes to leave.
More to come, when the count is complete.
UPDATE (EW): Brexit is looking even more likely – other major polling organisations are predicting a victory for Britain leaving the European Union.
Sky News
http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2016/06/24/voting-continues-in-brexit-referendum.html
Guardian
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2016/jun/23/eu-referendum-result-live-counting-leave-remain-brain-in-europe
etc.
UPDATE 2 (EW) – BREXIT Wins, Prime Minister David Cameron, who supported remain, resigns. If the “Brexit Contagion” spreads, this may be a fatal political blow to the hardline green policies of the European Union.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-results-live-brexit-wins-as-britain-votes-to-leave/
BBC real time results here: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36271589
Actually, that is delayed…this is better
http://video.foxnews.com/v/2555085278001/local-coverage-of-brexit-results/?#sp=show-clips
Well the left wing socialist experiment is over and Britain escaped.. I hear muttering that they’re going to be alone over this – but I’d remind those folk that the Commonwealth is still strong, Britain still has allies, there after all these years .. and that the Commonwealth has held together so firmly it proves the right wing policy of allowing people self determination rather that dictation in their own countries is the best way.
Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale,
A tale of a fateful trick
That started from this UK port
and led to the Brexit.
Prince Charles was a mighty sailing man,
The Queen was brave and sure.
the commonwealth set sail that day
For a twenty three year tour, a twenty three year tour.
The weather started getting rough,
The commonwealth was tossed,
If not for the courage of the voting crowds
The Brexit would be lost, the Brexit would be lost.
The UKās now back on firm ground autonomy in sight
With Prince Charles
The Queenās there too,
David Cameron resigned with his wife,
there might be turmoil
within the other member states,
Here on Brexit Isle.
Can’t see any real time stuff at the BBC. Not surprised.
Best site I have found is http://www.telegraph.co.uk.
“Remain camp … trailing Leave by more than 589,000 votes” at 4:24am.
“Leave have swept up more than 13 million of the 16.8 million votes needed to win” at 4:38am.
Looks like UEA might have finally got something right š
It was an advisory referendum and thus not legally binding upon parliament in any event. The vast majority of MP’s publicly supported remaining in the EU so they wouldn’t be moving fast anyway. If they did leave they would have something resembling the arrangement non-EU member Norway has with the EU. Basically it abides by and passes most if not all EU laws anyway.
My guess is that the bankers are going to inflict some major pain on Britain.
“It was an advisory referendum and thus not legally binding upon parliament in any event.”
So they can stay until the European bullies are neutralized.
The good news is that the depression will drastically reduce Britain’s energy consumption so it’s a big win for the climate scientists, Even better is when the budget cuts eventually do come, just like with the Australian climate scientists, they’ll be out of jobs.
HadJOB4.4 as it were.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/feb/04/csiro-confirms-300-job-cuts-with-climate-research-bearing-the-brunt
I don’t think they thought about that.
You would need to be a brave politician to stand up and tell the 52% there vote doesn’t count in a democracy SC. You might have got away with it on an almost tied vote but no politician is brave enough to try that on.
SC said: “It was an advisory referendum and thus not legally binding upon parliament in any event.”
NO. You are wrong SC. The great British public has spoken. Government HAS to bow to the will of the people.
Actually we still need the eu to vote to allow us to leave under article 50 !!. but we have up to 2 years to negotiate
It was an advisory referendum and thus not legally binding upon parliament
=====================
Charles I probably thought the same thing.
SC
With Bankers involved, will it be a Major Pain or something more akin to Capital Punishment
@SC, “If they did leave they would have something resembling the arrangement non-EU member Norway has with the EU. Basically it abides by and passes most if not all EU laws anyway.”
Norway doesn’t pass most of EU laws. It does that required for trade, just the same as countries that sell to the US follow US regulations. Actual figure is about 10% of Norwegian laws are EU ones, unlike the UK where the figure is way higher.
http://www.aecr.eu/less-than-10-of-norways-laws-emanate-from-brussels/
Leave 52% to 48% called by the BBC minutes ago.
A swift UK boot to the rear end of the EU elitist, the beginning of the end of world government and their phony climate plans– Oh so sad!
https://www.thesun.co.uk/ (valid only on 24th June 2016)
add … http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-36570120
Done deal – 7am UK time … We are OUT
The real problem with “scientific” issues that become political is to act early enough to make sure you can vote the puppies out. The US EPA is getting like the EU climate change bureaucrats, very difficult to remove.
So also with United Nations – unelected powerful bureaucrats – far out of line with their charter.
Yes our Australian ABC just has an EU “expert” on who conceded that the EU had incrementally expanded its mission over these past 3 or 4 decades to the extent that people in the UK (and elsewhere) were concerned about their nation losing its identity and sovereignty .
The EU unelected bureaucrats and media elite have cheesed the people off by laying down too much regulation for them to swallow.
Taken together with the Trump populist push-back in the US, the politico-media elite should be worried. The plebs are mad as hell, and not going to take it any more.
The UN will be next to feel the disdain of the plebs.
IMHO, it was the kettle ban wot dun it
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/06/22/laugh-or-cry-and-then-they-came-for-the-kettle/
Never mess with a Brits tea….
to EM SMiths kettle comment, yeah the cuppa is sacred:-)
followed by?
the ban on any vacuum cleaner over 900w also another EU gem
that one seems to have been pushed by Dyson and EU collaborating
under the guise of green low energy use etc
thing is? theyre 4x the cost of alt cleaners so they can be great as they like,
if theyre unaffordable its of little use to someone looking for repair or a cheap new unit.
@ozspeaksup
James Dyson was firmly & publicly against the ban on high-powered hoovers, despite it not affecting his products.
He said it was a scam orchestrated by the big, mainly German, manufacturers in order to make competition, (especially small technologically disruptive competition) harder.
A ban on high-powered would be pretty much like a ban on well-done steaks – quite silly!
The Queen helped lead the way when she endorsed Brexit last week. Long live the Queen.
Brussels is the new Vatican, The EU president is like a Pope, not elected by the people, but in a conclave and he thinks his policies are ineffable, like when the Pope speaks about faith.
So the Queen pulled the rug out from under the PM!
“TG June 24, 2016 at 4:25 am”
That is strange as she has German heritage. Phillip is Greek.
“The EU president is like a Pope”
At that point, the EU is like a Pope who would order a conclave on the right to enter a church with wet hairs when these same conclavists are busy making sextapes.
The EU is broken. The “europhiles” are batcrazy.
Patrick,
Philip is of German-Danish descent. His dynasty was chosen to rule Greece, but he has no Greek ancestry. He was however born in Greece, so in that sense, you’re correct.
If not for EII’s Scottish mother, Prince Charles would be as about German-Danish as the queen’s father, George VI.
One executive order created The EPA.
One executive order can terminate it..
Please make it so!!!!
It was created by an executive order, but lots of laws further implementing have been passed since then.
It will take more than a mere executive order to terminate that monster.
“””””…..
MarkW
June 24, 2016 at 7:13 am
It was created by an executive order, but lots of laws further implementing have been passed since then. …..”””””
Well lots of ” regulations ” imposed by unelected beaurocrats have been passed. Not so many laws written by the elected members of the Congress. Perhaps some intelligent unelected new beaurocrats can unregulated all of that crap.
G
Yes I know; I like mine better !
“France, Holland and Italy are also preparing to hold referendums to leave the EU, if Britain votes to leave.”
Weed? Vodka? What is your thing?
Victory for the good guys.
Leave are the good guys. The remain people are sycophants and finally get what they deserve. The whining by the Remain people on BBC is disgusting they are treating the Leave voters as if they are stupid, don’t know nothing. All they are talking about is the Pound losing value. I bet you within 1 week the whole thing will stabilize and it will be better for Britain. I am buying British products every time I can!!!
The remain champions are people who believe the motivations are the Islamist in Orlando are unclear and should be investigated for months before any analysis is proposed, and the guy had psychological issues and it’s a “hate” crime anyway (the opposite of a “love” crime, or a “I don’t hate you and I don’t care about you either way” crime, or something) … but when a very progressist pro-remain (and pro “Palestine”) MP is killed, the meaning of the crime is clear even before the body is cold, it was caused by the brexiters even though they haven’t really caused it, their arguments have caused it (or something), and it’s a political event and the murder is part of the political campaign…
So thank you Barrack Hussein.
Thank you the Dem party.
Thank you the graun.
Thank you the globalist medias.
And thank you Jean-Claude the bully Juncker.
@simple-touriste: According to my beloved (& somewhat discheveld) 1925 Pocket Oxfrod English Dictionary, an interesting definition cropped up a couple of words above the one I sought, (Juno). The word was……..Junker: “Member of the reactionary land-owning aristocracy in Prussia”! Naaah, must be just a coincidence,……surely?
simple-touriste said:
Tāwouldnāt surprise me at all ā¦.. iffen it was a select group of āRemainersā who intentionally sacrificed āone-of-their-ownā ā¦ā¦. in a failed attempt to garner a ālast minuteā sympathy vote from the gullible Britons.
Remember, LBJ beat out Goldwater for the POTUS job by airing an AD portraying a pretty little girl getting blown up by an H-bomb when she was picking wildflowers.
Goldwater promised to H-bomb North Viet Nam to end the deadly carnage of US military personnel. The bleeding-heart liberals and other partisan Democrats voted for LBJ …. and the carnage continued unabated.
I heard a snooty Brit on the radio here in the US this AM saying the UK has “turned its back on the world” and is “returning to an isolationist island nation.” I guess that means the UK never achieved anything before the EU. What a crock.
There may be a side play. I saw at least one ‘ news ‘ broadcast from Scotland, that suggested that most Scots, voted to stay, and are unhappy with being ” dragged out ” against their wishes.
That (if true) could result in the UK itself doing a nuclear fission.
Any case, though none of my business directly, my ancestral ties there are acknowledged and respected. And I say; ” Good on ya Mates ! ” And I’m happy to learn (from WUWT above) that Her Queenness was supportive; I always felt she was that way inclined.
And it might also strengthen (voluntarily) the Commonwealth of Nations. I’d welcome that too.
But supportively; because now I am a Yank, and a dehyphenestrated one, so again NOMB !
All in all another great day for FREEDOM.
G
If the scots want out of the UK, fine.
Now the oil price has nosedived, their economy is effectively bankrupt.
Scotland, NI and London may rethink their interest in leaving the UK to stay in the EU if their exit means having to adopt the funny money Euro.
Its true that every county in Scotland voted to remain. But what they are not mentioning is that the voter turn-out in Scotland was significantly lower than in England (around 60% in Scotland and more like 75 to 80% in England).
If the turnout had been similar, there might have been a very different voting pattern in Scotland. (Same applies to N. Ireland).
Philip Peake said:”
Its true that every county in Scotland voted to remain. But what they are not mentioning is that the voter turn-out in Scotland was significantly lower than in England (around 60% in Scotland and more like 75 to 80% in England).”
Wrong! Scottish turn-out was more that 67% with a 62/38 split in favour of remaining, whereas England was less than 73% with a 53/47 split in favour of leaving. Even if Scotland’s turn-out has been as large as England, and all the extra votes were to leave, The Scottish vote would still be overwhelmingly in favour of remaining.
Don’t put Scotland down like that with false figures plucked from the air!
Leave up by 500,000…Looks good !
Dear God, let it be so! The United Kingdom did not fight to prevent its domination by European powers over and over and over to succumb to them now…
Rule, Britannia!
GO, UNITED KINGDOM!!!
***.***.***.***.***.
(for those who believe in God, I will tell you something very personal — I have been praying this prayer for many years, now, “Please, destroy the European Union (as an entity).” Maybe, God is saying, “Yes!” š )
Leave up 600,000 now
EU-as-a-peace-entity already self-destroyed in order to intimidate the people.
The credibility of the globalist mafia reached a new low.
Oh, dear British people, turn around! Look back….. the British soldier stumbling and falling on the fields of Waterloo….. of Flanders….. and on “Gold” and “Sword” beaches…. is waving you on…. .
Do — it — for — them.
Hello Janice.
I dislike globalism because I believe western democracies, esp UK, USA, Can, are special.
I don’t like 3rd world mud hut dwellers making policy to which I must adhere.
Buy the pound!
Hello, Paul Westhaver! I can’t buy any pounds, but ISN’T THIS JUST SOOOO COOOOOL?!!!
Okay! Put up both your hands, high — and HIGH TEN! (I just virtually smacked them with mine š )
HIGH TEN.
Janice
Along those lines
Have you read Bernard Cornwell’s Sharpe series?
Hi, Another Ian,
Thanks for asking, no. I just looked them up on Amazon and they look terrific — for someone who likes a lot of battles and military operations, etc.. While I enjoy historical novels, and Cornwell’s appear to be of the best sort, I don’t enjoy reading about military campaigns, etc.. Just boring to me (tedious or something) — just the way my brain is wired. I am VERY pro-military, though.
Thanks for sharing!
Janice
Janice , one of the main reasons I left many years ago was this. I saw it coming ever since the EU allowed the immigration of “guest workers” I wish I would have bet money on it. But at least praying worked for us!!
A Sybot…. hello, dear Dutchman (at heart). You and Mrs. Sybot were very wise, indeed. Way-to-go, getting out when you did. Oh, yes, yes. Prayer works. Sometimes, God says, “No,” or “Wait” (a looooooooooooooooooooooooooong time (sigh)), but! Sometimes….. God — says, “Yes!!!”
Signed: Your WUWT pal — JANICE!
#(:))
The French Socialist leaches are at the heart of it. It is therefore rotten.
I could do without George III and the anti-American sequences.
Well said Janice. We WON! Rule, Britannia indeed š
(yes, I’m a Brit, but not one who believes in divine intervention!)
Thank you, Luc! Stand tall and proud!
(and, I will pray that someday you do… š )
Please!!!
Enough of your god-bothering nonsense. This has nothing to do with anyone’s imaginary friend and everything to do with the British people taking an entirely rational decision.
– Yours, “pompous” hee hee
Yes, the EU is certainly an imaginary ‘friend’!
Dear Mr. Green Genes,
People, even the British, often act irrationally, in spite of all the best efforts of those who try to show them the facts. Therefore…. . Well, anyway — hurrah for the UK! š
btw: Kind if interesting, isn’t it? Rationally speaking, I mean…. how MANY of us over the decades and centuries, all over the world…. have the exact same “imaginary friend.” Something to think about, eh, Mister?
#(:))
Your Ally for Truth in Science,
Janice
“In God We Trust.” That has a familiar ring to it. I wonder who thought of it?
You know, Green Genes, far more true scientists than you could bear to know about are Christians.
A union can be something very good. The EU bureaucrats and their God-denying, money-seeking enablers have taken many wrong turns, however, and no improvement of their judgement capabilities is in sight.
You GO Girl ! with all my best wishes.
G
Dear George,
You probably meant that for the UK as “Liberty” is often personified as a woman, but, just in case that was directed at me, not too far above you…, thank you (if I’m not mistaken — blush). I’m so glad to know that you and I are still “friends” after our little verbal fisticuffs. That old shoe you threw at me didn’t hurt my elbow, much, but it hurt my heart. Glad all is well!
Your Ally for Truth,
Janice
Just over 61% vote counted and leave at 51.4% that is going to a bit hard to make up and so his 0% probability would be correct if you are a pessimist. The optimist is waiting for big swing of last minute votes because all the remain voters were working š
If only he could predict climate half as well.
Leave currently have 51 .3 percent of the vote but there are still many millions of votes to count. It is entirely unexpected as all the pundits had been predicting a remain vote. There is panic in downing street and Brussels.
Tonyb
Leave is up 700.000
Yes saw that. There is a better live link it shows the time stamp of the number
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/leave-or-remain-eu-referendum-results-and-live-maps/
The update at 4.34 London time puts the count at 77% and the number worsening 51.7%.
Rule, Britannia!
Britons never, ever will be slaves!
Congrats to England and Wales, overriding Northern Ireland and the Scottish National Socialist Party.
From a very long time ago, I remember something like:
The English guys who sang the above lyrics seemed to think they were profound. Clearly, because I was from the wrong side of the Atlantic, I didn’t understand.
That’s the inscrutable East for you!
Their rugby songs are a lot nastier yet easier to grasp.
Much too early for panic for the remain side. Britain will now bargain with a stronger hand. The socialist basket case of Scotland may leave the U.K. to go back to the EU- if the EU wants another Greece!
Another link here
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/22/finally-britons-vote-today-historic-european-union-referendum/
I’ve been watching TV all night and although there are still more results to come, we are nearly there.
Wonderful!
Cameron’s dream of the EU Presidency has now evaporated.
“Cameronās dream of the EU Presidency has now evaporated.”
Why?
Can’t be president of a club if you are not a member.
“if you are not a member”
What? GB isn’t a member?
“Cameronās dream of the EU Presidency has now evaporated”
Cameron or someone else, at that point I can’t imagine a EU Presidency other than GB.
The other 27 countries left “Europe”, and their nations. No nation wants to hurt itself to hurt GB. Our heads of states look pretty much likes administrators authorized by Germany.
This isn’t going to go well.
Currently results are 52% to 48% in favour of leave. For a remain result the remaining 66 out of the total 382 voting areas they need to increase from 48% to 56%. That would require some pretty wierd remaining areas. If I were a betting man we are out of the EU. Yahoo!!!
I never thought I would see this day. Whoo,!
Tonyb
I think it will be a good thing overall if they leave the EU. There will still be NATO. I think the Brits want to be free…
you say that as if NATO is a good thing?
NATO is the excuse of Europe countries.
Before Airbus 400M, French army was even depending on Russia transports for delivery of its materials!
On more than one occasion now the British have had to rescue Europe from itself.
If the Brexit happens it certainly marks the end of the current European Project in its present form.
I feel quite proud that the ordinary people had the guts to stand up in the face of a filthy media campaign of slurs and denigration. Anyone, however mild their disposition, who even hinted that they might be discontented with the status quo was immediately labeled a racist/fascist. That tactic looks like it has failed.
Ultimately we didn’t like being bullied. Scary and exciting times.
Tonyb
And we wanted democratic control of our government with leaders we can kick out when they screw up.
Now, BrexitUN, AusexitUN and get rid of all the socialist leeches.
EU Zombies! Movie coming soon.
Actually the European dream was dead, cold and rotten already (it was still moving though).
The pro-EU managed to provide additional evidence that EU isn’t a peace project but an imperialist project, as the brexiter were arguing.
Obumer helped the brexit a lot.
@ simple touriste. + many!
Cold and rotten but still moving, the movement caused by the maggots eating the carcase.
(Sorry to put you off your breakfast.)
The absolute cheek of a foreign dictator, trying to influence the lives of a would-be-free people !
But that excuse that we have for a CIC, knows no bounds either of diplomacy, or of common sense.
While he tries to further enslave the Americans; the Motherland decides that freedom and National Sovereignty is best for them.
G
simple-touriste . .
That was sweet indeed . . he’s “helping” Ms. Clinton now, lucky lassy ; )
“Anyone, however mild their disposition, who even hinted that they might be discontented with the status quo was immediately labeled a racist/fascist. That tactic looks like it has failed”
I have a theory that these schemes (you must be stupid to vote “no”, you must be racist, you must be xenophobic, only uneducated people vote “no”) produce the opposite result or at least reliably promote the opposite views.
But this time a tipping point was passed: the “you didn’t kill Jo Cox, but”.
“but” means you basically did it (in a “did not do it” kind of way, or something).
simple-touriste commented: “….I have a theory that these schemes (you must be stupid to vote ānoā, you must be racist, you must be xenophobic, only uneducated people….”
add to that anti science, want to pollute the earth, conspiracy theorist, and you have the same mentality coming from the CAGW crowd. In both cases the narrative is supported by the MSM. Look at the state of politics in the US now. The two candidates for arguably the most important position in the world are doing the same thing.
Another propaganda/credibility tipping point passed: the French medias are parroting the idea that Nigel Farage just admitted that a key brexit promise was an impossibility. (Without mentioning which promise.)
The “promise” is the reallocation of Europe money to NHS, and it was a proposition “let’s …”. Clearly there was never a promise “if you vote brexit that money will automatically go to the NHS, by law”. This would have been patently absurd. The referendum never was about raising money for the NHS.
The only clear “promise” was that such money would be under the absolute control of the GB, not Europe, and that NHS wasn’t barred as a recipient (just like offering gold watches to traders in the City to help with the brexit trauma wasn’t barred).
At that point I am not sure if the journalists just don’t get modality (there is no guaranty that P vs. P is an impossibility by law or by nature) or if they are dishonest. I guess both is an option.
All the British media has called the vote, Leave has won.
If I wasn’t in a hotel I would be SCREAMING FOR JOY!!!!
I feel like dancing! Yippee!!!
Me, too, Annie! Who cares if we have no partner (maybe you do, I do not)!!!
THIS tune will do nicely!
(I was thinking about posting this earlier, and NOW I have my opening š )
Yeeeeeeeee — haw!
#(:))
That’s great fun Janice, thank you! Very suitable as I live in Australia although I am English. š
Go ahead and scream, they’ll just assume you’re enjoying something else.
Can they keep their toasters and tea kettles now?
The left wing, everywhere, is so damned dumb and dishonest.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/10/eu-to-launch-kettle-and-toaster-crackdown-after-brexit-vote2/
EU to launch kettle and toaster crackdown after Brexit vote
Not to mention their Hoovers.
I have the fastest energy goblining toaster, electric kettle, vacuum cleaner and a ripping Internet router etc….etc…….etc….. and I love them!!!
If we vote remain we will be powerless to prevent an avalanche of EU energy efficacy regulation that Brussels is delaying until after the referendum – Junker.
And a heart-felt “Oooh-rah” for Great Britain…. but, to quote the great Benjamin Franklin, “If you can keep it.” The Left will never, ever, ever give up. They’ll drag their feet, whine about how it was only a 2% edge, throw all sorts of bricks on the rails for disentanglement and try to find a way to drag the British people back into the EU one way or another. Also, don’t discount the fury that Merkel will bring — she has sworn a blood-oath to make Europe not only Socialist but “multi-cultural” and she will do all that she can (with the economic might of Germany behind her) to punish the British. Never underestimate the Hun. So, while I’m delighted by the vote, I see a lot of stormy weather ahead for the UK.
Does that mean not selling german made windmills to great britain. Oh the horror. Congrats to brexit, thanks for pissing off obummer
JP – and a +10 to you. Our Dear Leader already stuck his putter into the vote a few days ago. Who know what tantrum he’ll pitch now that the British people have made their will known.
It isn’t the end, but I think it’s the beginning of the end.
For the idea that EU is the European dream, it’s the end period. The “I love you and we must be together and if you leave me I will make your life hell” isn’t a turn-on. Jean-Claude Juncker absolutely must leave.
how it was only a 2% edge
============
52-48 = 4%
4%/48% = 8.3%
Nearly 10% more people voted leave than remain..
I was trying to channel the arithmetically challenged: 52% — the last figures I saw when I wrote my comment — is just 2% over the majority (50%). The Left will use anything to twist truth. Would that the actual figures had been much, much more dramatic (80/20) but we play the hand we’re dealt.
she will do all that she can (with the economic might of Germany behind her) to punish the British.
====================
she has her army of gropers ready to march on the UK at a moments notice. though it could be that the german women will not feel so kindly towards Merkel at the next election. not every frƤulein enjoys the cold hands of a stranger up their backside.
The hope for real change has started!
BTW, market chaos tomorrow. Hold on!
Phew! The British people – the chippy Scots an the metropolitan elites in Lodnon apart – have saved us from the grasping fist of Brussels.
We Brits dislike being talked down to or ordered about. Nelson would be proud of us this morning.
Now maybe we can keep the lights on!
You can bet the result sent shockwaves thru lots of green groups with whats likely to happen if politicians introduce radical climate change policy post Paris agreement. You can’t push political agendas without strong and continual support from the masses.
Also you can’t have an epistemology that is so much variable and inconsistent: The Pulse/Jo Cox.
Yes, I believe it’s an historical defeat of hysterical anti-epistemology.
Will the vote be like climate science, I wonder, where the results are “adjusted” to obtain the “correct” results?
It’s pretty much official ! Brexit wins. Happy Independence Day Britain. By by EU.
Can Canada become a British colony again? Please?
(We can give you our prime minister as a clown for Comical relieve, when the going gets tough in the parliament )
Trudeau landed top billing:
http://www.tourisme-montreal.org/What-To-Do/Events/just-for-laughs-festival-presented-by-videotron
Sovereignty wins! Congratulations.
GO, UNITED KINGDOM!!!!
Wheeeeeeeeeeeeee! I am — so HAPPY!
š
š
š
***.***.***.
I think they just reclaimed the right to be called Great Britain again. š
I am just a bit sad that I had been living overseas too long to vote myself.
Great Britain, indeed, Peter! š
Isn’t it just so cool how happy all the liberty loving people of the WORLD are?! š
I’ve never set foot in the UK, and I am beaming. And I have NO doubt that thousands of Brits (including my great-great-great….. grand-ancestors) are leaning over the balconey of heaven and cheering — Hurrah!!!
š
No: we’ve just decided to be a 3rd world country .
– Sterling has fallen to its lowest level since 1985 – marking a sharper dive even than on Black Wednesday in 1992.
Britain was only ‘Great’ when it used slave labour & used gunboat diplomacy to plunder other peoples resources
Read history.
Strange how people who –
‘never set foot in the UK’
think they know whats best for us.
Do you care to elaborate on why the obvious ain’t so obvious before bashing all the peops on the other side of the pond, saveenergy?
Saveenergy must have voted remain?
afonzarelli
Iām not ābashing all the peops on the other side of the pondā ā¦only the armchair ex-sperts with lots of opinions & little knowledge.
If you think separation is such a good thing, fragment the USAā¦ then let each state take on China & Russia independently see how well you get on.
Winston Churchill āUnited States of Europeā in his own words
at 1.30min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln4SRnt4VE0
Study history
1saveenergy,
And yet when the first European trade union was formed for Coal and Steel in the 50s, Churchill was dead-set against Britain tying itself to that nonsense. He stated that Britain should be “with Europe, not in it”. Of course if you go back to his statements in 1930, he was all for a united Europe then…hmmm, I wonder what might have happened to change his mind in the intervening 20 years, something there, but I doubt you would put your finger on it!
Selective study of history is much like the selective study of climate…you can draw whatever conclusion you want then go find the data to back your preconceived conclusion.
Came across this today.
Anglo-centric, certainly!
But humorous . .
Auto
Auto,
Thank you for that. You made me smile. Yes, yes, veddy hyoomohduss. Lol, and the poor Canadians get insulted in the usual way …. not even mentioned!
You American Ally for Science Realism,
Janice
#(:))
***.***.***.***.***
Very well, just wanted to know where you were coming from. (didn’t quite have you sussed ol’ chap) Bash away… ☺
saveenergy: “No: weāve just decided to be a 3rd world country .”
Utter, absolute, 100.00% 24 carat bollocks.
You really haven’t the first clue.
“If you think separation is such a good thing, fragment the USAā¦”
It was born one country, and now we must overcome the SJW in Chief and all his cannibalistic spawn, to keep it from disintegrating . . you flaming hypocrite.
“saveenergy June 24, 2016 at 12:34 am
No: weāve just decided to be a 3rd world country .”
Really? Too funny. So the UK needed the EU to be not 3rd world? Really? Seriously? Given the fact that Britain brought wealth and industry to the world.
However, you have politicians, voted for by the people, in the UK pursuing the policies of the Climate Change Act which will see the UK descend into “3rd world” status, eventually. As long as their carbon emissions meet targets.
Italy today has 1.3 persons collecting state welfare for every 1 person working and paying taxes. The UK is not far behind, 20-30 years. Almost all other countries in the EU zone are in the same boat. With industry, jobs and emissions being exported to Asia, how do you think that will work out in 20-30 years?
Former 1st world countries becoming 3rd world countries.
It’s pretty much official ! Brexit wins. Happy Independence Day Britain. Bye Bye EU. I have a lot of gold stocks that have been stagnating for the past few years. I held on expecting The world economy to hit some lows under the liberal leadership. The debt and 0 and negative interest rates will have had their toll on everything normal. Maybe I will wake up many tens of thousand ahead of the game tomorrow morning.
It is official…vote tally passed the mark about ten minutes ago.
Congratulations on your gold win!
Are they still saying Cameron will resign or be pushed?
There would be a few nervous politicians I imagine with lots of recriminations.
If the Brits are going to sit around for 2 years ( Article 50, French and German elections) you can bet your bottom dollar that the pressure on the British economy. (Forces like the US, Germany, French and so on ) will be enormous. And I will not be surprised if, to begin with it is going to be very hard for England. I think they should get out asap! I think Northern Ireland and Scotland will understand eventually they will be better of as a UNITED KINGDOM!
Germany had better remember how many cars and white goods it exports to Great Britain before getting too stroppy with us. I’ll have a personal boycott of German goods if they start being unduly awkward.
“Annie June 24, 2016 at 5:15 am”
I think you will find the Mk6 VW Golf is made/assembled in South Africa.
Interestingly enough, the Labour/left wing commentators are still blaming the immigration issue and not “getting the message across” for the vote.
They just don’t get that the vote was always about democracy, pure and simple.
The choice was a trade between a level of comfort financially that came with a form of slavery to the un-elected bureaucracy of the EU or democratic freedom.
Yes, there is going to be a cost to that freedom, but the price is worth it.
Second message is don’t believe the polls. The polls are not going to be accurate because the liberal media tends to be so intolerant that they label those that disagree as intolerant, evil, stupid or simply bad, and in doing so they drive many into the position of being secret supporters.
Winston Churchill had some advice for the left-wingers: “However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results” Good on ya, Poms – welcome back to the commonwealth – we missed ya!
Winston Churchill āUnited States of Europeā in his own words
at 1.30min https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln4SRnt4VE0
Study history
Thanks Onyabike.
Iffen Winston Churchill stated āUnited States of Europeā then he was surely referring to all the European countries UNITED against Germany and its Dictatorial government.
The Nazi regime of the 30ās and early 40ās is akin to what the EU regime has been trying to establish in the 2000ās.
1saveenergy,
There you go again quoting the 1930 Churchill document again. By 1950, he had reversed himself. His concept for the UN for instance had representation by region and he put Great Britain and the Commonwealth as a separate representation area from Europe. WWII convinced him that the cultural and value differences between Britain and the the rest of Europe were too great to overcome. He came to see Europe as a close partner due to proximity, but not as a governing block.
Selective study of history is like selective study of climate science – it is easy to find the data you need to support your preconceived conclusion, it just requires ignoring all evidence to the contrary.
Owen in GA
Not 1930s
Sir Winston Churchill called for the creation of a āUnited States of Europeā in his famous 1946 Zurich speech.
http://www.churchill-society-london.org.uk/WSCHague.html
Churchill presided the first European Federal Congress at the Hague in 1948.
http://www.cvce.eu/en/education/unit-content/-/unit/7b137b71-6010-4621-83b4-b0ca06a6b2cb/4b311dc0-cbe6-421d-9f9a-3bc8b1b155f6
read history & check facts
Yes I agree they are so convinced in their own self righteousness they don’t see any of that … the cause is worth any cost. You see the same thing with the CAGW crowd labelling people deniers etc.
Yes, they DID get the message across.
It is all about democracy.
Yes.
I cashed out of every stock in every account last week, even my 401k.
It was looking dumb for a few minutes there this week, but now i am so damn happy?
I will buy back in at much lower levels.
Stocks and energy selling of big time around the world at this moment, gold up nearly 8%.
Could be more now…it is moving so fast.
Stock market here in US will be brutal on Friday!
Yay!
Called one right.
Yup, bargains galore. Picked up a couple myself today, after the markets stabilzed a bit.
Could be a dead cat bounce. I expect a big sell off at the end of the day.
I’m going to wait and pick my spot I expect the market will be down a lot more than this within a few weeks.
Perhaps but as a swing trader I looked for short term bargains that I have had on my watch list and have been waiting for the vote to see where they ended up. As you probably know, fear and greed move the market and fear is in charge right now. I suspect as the details of how there are two years to implement the withdrawal from the EU start to emerge the fear will subside.
@ Menicholas…note that there was no big sell off. I think the manipulators trying to push the market down will not be able to get the momentum they want. The media was flooded with the scare stories of how harmful the consequences of Leave would be, and that Remain was a fairly sure prospect. Now that their forecasts have been proven wrong I think that people will realize that the gloomy market forecasts are also wrong.
Then in the last several days, there were some voices of reason giving their reasons why the alarmists position was overblown. Still the market was up high again, anyway. It was likely that a downward shift would take place, and the Leave decision was a great time for the bears to make a move.
It’s not who votes and how that counts – it’s who counts the votes and how that is important.
Sorted!
Now, how am I going to get to sleep???!!!
Ha! I know… I’ll just pull out my copy of “Basic Statistics” and start to…… (yawn)…….read….zzzz.
I love to see all the bettors get up-ended! Every election we hear, “Oh, look at the betting markets, they always get it right! The smart money is always right!” Well tonight all of the so-called “smart money” was WRONG and turns out to be a bunch of chumps who just lost huge amounts of money because they bet on what they WISHED was true, not on any actual knowledge.
So in the future, whenever any one says “well, look at what the smart money is doing” just point out that it may turn out to all be very stupid money, indeed.
WWS
I have a different opinion. The betting money was close and the left got some backers to bet on REMAIN to shift the odds in REMAIN’s favor. The odds were shifted by a few big bets. (But small money when you consider what propaganda costs.)
When people believe the betters always get it right then it was cheap propaganda to shift those odds in favor of REMAIN. That the odds were suddenly in REMAIN’s favor was all over the news. So for peanuts REMAIN got a huge propaganda boost. And the left had about an even money chance of actually making money!
Want to bet that was not what went on?
Eugene WR Gallun
https://www.gold.co.uk/gold-price/gold-price-today/
Head of steam …
http://uk.investing.com/indices/uk-100-advanced-chart
Living in Oregon I ran across a copy of The New York Times in a waiting room. I never read it now but picked it up. Below the fold on the front page was a news story?? (or more accurately an opinion piece — I don’t believe The New York Times puts much hard news on its front page nowadays) that stated IN THE FIRST PARAGRAPH that this whole BREXIT thing was all Cameron’s fault BECAUSE HE ALLOWED THE PEOPLE TO VOTE ON IT!!
On its front page The New York Times was lamenting allowing people to vote! Damn! You can’t let them vote because they might do what the liberal elites don’t want!
So The New York Times says — No guns and no voting. That’s the world The New York Times wants for Americans.
Eugene WR Gallun
Thank UKIP. Cameron had to promise to hold a referendum, or the Tories would have lost due to defections to the UK Independence Party.
Well spin my nipple nuts and send me to Alaska! We’re free!
At ten o’clock ladt night remain were very confident. It’s been a long night but what a great dawn
Tonyb
After the exit polls I muttered that they might be wrong and went to sleep. This morning I reluctantly turned the TV on with blurry eyes and then barely believed them. The vote would have been significantly higher if the establishment hadn’t thrown everything at us including threats, insults and moral blackmail.
If the globalist mafia knew a practical way to attach the dead body of Jo Cox to strings, and physically use it as a marionette, they would have done it, following Burns’ example:
The Simpsons Weekend At Burnsie’s
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/videos/the-simpsons-weekend-at-burnsies/82282738/
@ 19:50
This was the one thing the bureaucrats didn’t want, the people getting their say on what has been going on in the EU.
Now we have to get a good deal and rebuild our once Great nation.
I have been hoping and praying this will bring about an improvement throughout the whole of the EU.
Maybe just maybe they will be able to bring in a set of accounts which actually show what happened to all the money collected!
James Bull
The end of the AGW movement is inside this.
I sure hope so! This is great news. š
A population psyche that wants self rule certainly won’t like dictation from the UN or other large imposing organizations.. I don’t think it is just the EU…. It is the world.
The UN, by similarity, will take a kick in the head.
Paul – you are sooooo right! What a fantastic day. Cheers, mate. š
For a change the people have won a victory, this is a huge victory for most of readers who follow this wonderful website. The EU is toast and so are the warmist.
I could not be happier.
+1000
Upshot could be Northern Ireland joining the Republic. Dublin regime is no longer dominated by the Catholic Church, so there is less reason for Protestant majority Ulster to remain separate. Divorce is now legal in the Republic, and even abortion practically so.
Let Scotland go her own way. Once the oil runs out, the National Socialist regime there will beg to be let back into the Union. Scotland can’t sell enough scotch to support its creaky welfare state without fossil fuel revenues. It’s Venezuela of the North.
That will never happen. As a former resident of the RI I can tell you NI, in particular The Orange Men, are, sadly, not the slightest bit interested in a unified Ireland.
Independence, then, or union with Scotland. But NI did like the open border and free trade with the Republic.
“even abortion practically so”
except when the mother’s life is a stake and she is going to die in horrible suffering?
Ireland is a disgusting country, shouldn’t even have been allowed in Europe.
If the UK follows up on leaving the EU, some of the constituent members don’t want to leave, and may leave the UK. It will be the never ending story.
Let NI and Scotland leave the Union. Best wishes. It’s not like the bad old days, when England couldn’t afford to have French or German allies on its land or sea borders. Now it doesn’t matter.
Do NI and Scotland really want to join the Eurozone? The Euro is probably toast. The errant provinces will soon beg, beg, to stay in the Sterling Zone. Like the Twilight Zone, only more concrete.
Why would Scotland and NI want to join a disintegrating Europe? How would they pay their fees? Lurking in the background is Greece whose financial problems have still not been resolved. The EU has become bloated and cannot absorb more countries. Any way, there are four other countries in the queue to join.why would either home nation be allowed to jump the queue?
Tonyb
It’s not a matter of being allowed. The EU would welcome new (former) members at this juncture, whether they could pay their fees or not. Scotland could, as long as the oil lasts.
But you’re right that other countries will follow UK’s lead, at least in holding referenda, if not in voting to bail on the rat-infested, leaky, sinking Commie ship.
The EFTA was OK, but when it became the EC and EU, with its own unaccountable, tyrannical regime and currency, but without a genuine popular government to back that currency, it was time to leave. Way overdue. At least Britain never joined the Eurozone.
If Scotland and Northern Ireland leave UK and join the EU on their own would that mean they would need the formal things like passports, customs, tariffs etc to enter or trade with the UK? It would definitely make the immigration issue interesting.
My guess is that entering Scotland from England would be like going from the US to Canada, ie passport yes, but visa no. Used not to even require a passport.
I doubt that punitive tariffs are going to happen. Germany, which basically rules the EU, trades heavily with Britain. Angela dare not slap tariffs on British goods, since retaliation by London would cost her more than it would hurt Merrie Olde.
Garbo
The eu has already got Monrovia Albania and Serbia lined up for membership. Why would they put another two economic minnows ( with due respect to two lovely countries)to the head of the queue?
Anyway They would be new countries not an old country rejoining so I can not see the prospective members mentioned putting up with the queue jumping
Tonyb
If NI does NOT leave the UK, they will need passports etc to drive down the road into Eire – since the economies and even the road system are so inter dependent it will be a massive blow to NI.
going to the shop? don’t forget your passport now!
“Griff June 24, 2016 at 4:25 am”
You are so uninformed. Not only do you know nothing about climate, you know nothing of the relationship between NI and RI. Too funny! Brexit will do nothing to that relationship as it was not a problem before the UK entered the EU and won’t be after the UK exits.
@LdB: It’s doubtful – the UK had open border agreements with Ireland predating the EU by decades, which remain in force. People would laugh at the thought of Scottish / English border guards / passport checks even with an independent Scotland. A lot depend on how far EU bureaucrats and political elites are prepared to go with a ‘scorched earth’ policy to save their jobs. If they have any common sense they will do this with carrots rather than sticks and do their best to preserve free trade. If they resort to sticks, they might scare the little people of Europe into keeping quiet in the short term, but in the long run they will overthrown by a European population as, if not more, disaffected than the UK’s (especially when they realise they have been forced to fund the goliath climate scam). Even if the EU imposes tarrifs, chances are the NI borders (and Scottish in the case of Independence) would become a popular smuggling route and the UK government would look the other way for smaller players – it would probably do the local economies a lot of good in any case..
The Swiss don’t have any trouble visiting France, Germany or Italy.
Tony,
Think you mean Montenegro rather than Monrovia.
Griff: “If NI does NOT leave the UK, they will need passports etc to drive down the road into Eire”
No they won’t.
You’re making stuff up again.
A lot of French people work in Switzerland, where they get better salaries and are mostly the “poor workers” there.
They get health assurance in Switzerland but the our government insist on them paying for the SƩcuritƩ Sociale, which is an illegal demand (see French and European law).
France doesn’t have an “NHS” so people should be free to choose their social insurance (except for “family” obviously), but the government torments those who do. Lastly, the patently illegal SS courts have been suppressed.
The French government is desperate to hide the fact that without a “legal” security system like NHS, people in Europe are free to choose their social insurance. The European Commission is lying about that to help the French government.
The evidence and the experts quite definitely predicted a narrow lead for Bremain.
At 2a.m. all of that fell apart when the bookies odds hit even both ways and around that time the pound may have collapsed!! Hurrah.
I should perhaps have cut my exposure, but I was not concerned in the days leading up to the vote, since evidence and experts pointed to a 75-80% certainty that this would not occur.
Hurrah, for evidence and expertise. Which sometimes guides us to believe in things which are not the case.
However, by some intriguing coincidence, the Brexiteers themselves have been formerly (but informally) charged with tending to ignore “evidence” and “experts”.
On many matters including the climate change consensus. As observed here:
http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-europe/news/brexit-campaign-leadership-dominated-by-climate-sceptics/
“The biggest political revolution in Britain since the Peasants’ Revolt of 1381”
That overlooks beheading Charles I.
Play it LOUD AND LONG.! Long live the QUEEN.
I suspect the Queen is trying to outlive her son Charles – for the sake of Her Country, of course. Should Charles predecease her, Andrew would be next in line.
No, William would be next in line. Under the old inheritance laws, rule passed to the oldest son of the current ruler. Now rule passes to the oldest child, regardless of sex. Currently, William’s son George is third-in-line to the throne.
I pray for the health of (Canada’s) Queen every day. “Please Lord, let our Queen outlive her embarrassment of a son!”
Vigilant,
About time the sexual succession issue was settled. While France had its Salic Law, the question was moot in England and later the UK. This led to at least two terrible civil wars that spring immediately to mind, ie The Anarchy and the Wars of the Roses, but maybe others.
Henry V felt that, contrary to the Salic Law, he was rightful claimant to the French throne, yet, hypocritically, his claim to the English crown was because his dad, the usurper Henry IV, was the son of John of Gaunt, the third surviving son of King Edward III, rather than through Philippa, daughter of Lionel of Antwerp, the second son, the line of the eldest son, Edward, the Black Prince (of Wales) having ended with the murder by Henry’s dad of his cousin Richard II.
Germany is now the singular economic leader in Europe and they are soft towards Russia.
Are we seeing the emergence of a new soviet empire?
Reading the comments here you would believe the UK is (now was) a downtrodden state under the yoke of a malevolent EU, and that the more than 48% that voted to remain are all misguided, unpatriotic cretins, probably communists, warmistas or worse. Do you really believe this guff?
The leave side has won by a majority, but has swapped one set of problems for another. The skies are not necessarily bluer.
Google the “Brexit Movie”. You might just see the light…..
I’ll save you the effort…Watch this and see if you don’t think BREXIT was a great idea. It makes no mention of climate change or immigration btw…….
This is about Economics and Sovereignty
Published on May 12, 2016
BREXIT THE MOVIE is a feature-length documentary film to inspire as many people as possible to vote to LEAVE the EU in the June 23rd referendum.
BREXIT THE MOVIE spells out the danger of staying part of the EU. Is it safe to give a remote government beyond our control the power to make laws? Is it safe to tie ourselves to countries which are close to financial ruin, drifting towards scary political extremism, and suffering long-term, self-inflicted economic decline?
BREXIT THE MOVIE shows a side of the EU they don’t want us to see: the sprawling self-serving bureaucracy, the political cynicism, the lack of accountability, the perks, the waste, the cronyism, the corruption.
BREXIT THE MOVIE cuts through the patronizing intellectualism of the noble, higher goals of ‘Project Europe’, to reveal the self-interestedness of the political-bureaucratic class which runs and benefits from the EU.
BREXIT THE MOVIE highlights the danger of becoming a prisoner in an insular, backward-looking Fortress Europe. And it explores the exciting opportunities that open up to us when we look beyond the narrow confines of the EU.
BREXIT THE MOVIE looks to the future, arguing forcefully and persuasively that it is safer and wiser to live in a country which is free, independent, self-governing, confident and global.
For more information, visit http://www.brexitthemovie.com
Category
People & Blogs
Blue skies for many. Sovereign they are now
Free from the tyranny and rules of the EU. Free not to have their money taken for other people’s desire to take. I’d say blue skies.
Dull skies for 48.1% of the voting population?
While I don’t like to be commanded from Brussels either (to many EU laws don’t take into account the differences in population density and industrialization of the different countries), I don’t think that Britain will get that “free” from the EU as they wish.
If they want to stay a preferred trade partner of the rest of the EU, they will be forced to implement the same (environmental and economical) rules as they have today, but without any participation in the decision making. That is already the case for Norway and Switzerland…
@Alan Kendall: No, not dull skies for the 48%; they will benefit equally from the gains of the majority. And because of that majority they will get their democratic voice back. None of us shall any longer be ruled by unelected bureaucrats in Brussels. That alone is a result.
You’re right. The sky is not necessarily bluer. it is extremely discouraging that 48% voted to Remain.
Three Cheers for the UK! Western Civilization isn’t dead yet.
A very big “Thank You” to all you non-Brits above who have posted your congratulations and good wishes for our future.
At last, after 40 years, I won’t feel so ashamed when I meet our Commonwealth cousins who rightly pointed out when we joined the Common Market (as the EU was originally known then) how we had stabbed them in the back. To you, my heartfelt apologies.
I am sooooooooooooo happy at this moment. And now I have to go and wake Mrs Ozade and give her the good news :)))))))
Amen to that, Luc.
Hopefully we (OZ and NZ) can regain our status as Britain’s Dairy, lost to the ‘Common Market’. We certainly can do with it in OZ.
I voted for Britain to leave the European union and I think this is the first time I have been on the winning side on any election. I hope that our standard of living will not continue to be forced down by mass immigration from Europe and that we will no longer be forced to comply with European green energy targets, which makes energy more expensive for the ordinary person.
Briton,
Your punishment for this imprudence will be more fingerwagging, “get to the back of the queue” scolding from the US president. We rebels have been putting up with that here in colonies for 7 1/2 yrs. Now you’ll get some more from the Worst Ever US President.
Im figuring the panic in WH will result in Obama letting our Attorney General off her leash and biting Crooked Hillary so as to replace her with Biden.
“Briton,
Your punishment for this imprudence will be more fingerwagging, āget to the back of the queueā scolding from the US president.”
Trump will return Great Britain to the front of the line in a little less than seven months from now. He said so today in his speech in Scotland.
Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!
I don’t dare go on Facebook because all the family young ‘uns tended towards remain. But maybe if I stick to lower case I could get away with one small yeeee-haw
1 – In the UK we get 8% of our electricity from the EU (5.1% from France & 2.8% from Holland )
National Grid says Spare electricity capacity, would be 2% this year, (Three years ago the margin was 17%) an additional 2% is available by turning off industry.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTZJXq8vCbzKs9rbR3pCWwrg52mW9RjPYULE39vXw3XDkvFDMzAKQ
UKs energy mix
euanmearns.com
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSbXzRDy3cuE31T-o9ngFGTSjoStLvML89jUknW8AxsVv8H3PKOPA
2 – 100% of our Nuclear is owned by France (along with our water & sewage) & ~ 80% of all our power generating capacity is foreign owned/controlled.
3 – Sterling has fallen to its lowest level since 1985 – marking a sharper dive even than on Black Wednesday in 1992.
4 – You do the mathsā¦
This is mainly the result of Ed Millerbands 2008 āGreenā energy bill (in the Bliar government), nothing to do with the EU.
If we have a harsh 2016/17 winter, people will pay dearly for that decisionā¦with their lives.
The only good thing to be gained from Brexit –
It will be āmassively damagingā to the UKās crazy renewables sectorā¦according to Energy and Climate Change Minister Lord Bourne
“You do the maths”
Heh.
Se what being in the EU did?
It sapped GB of vital resources and capabilities.
Sunk-cost fallacy much? Would’ve been better to get out decades ago when the creeping socialist tentacles from Brussels hadn’t yet crossed the channel, but better late than never.
If Britain can ax the Green nonsense and fire those mothballed coal plants back up, energy won’t be a problem, and the country will be in a stronger position to unplug itself from the EU’s lotus-eating dependency machine.
“100% of our Nuclear is owned by France”
100% WRONG
EDF is NOT “France”. France doesn’t own nuclear power plants.
100% British nuclear is owned by EDFā¦
84% of EDF is owned the French state.
EDF – ĆlectricitĆ© de France S.A. is a French electric utility company, 84% owned by the French state.
Founded: April 8, 1946, Paris, France
āThe company, which is 84-per cent state owned ā
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/8cdd1d32-3075-11e5-91ac-a5e17d9b4cff.html#axzz4Cd9Yptkl
http://m.fin24.com/fin24/economy/france-finalising-uk-nuclear-plant-deal-minister-20160417
EDF could be 100% owned by the French State, it still wouldn’t be France.
EDF is EDF and there are still laws in France!
Well we finally plucked up the courage and voted to leave the anti-democratic European Union. With any luck this whole thing will unravel and mankind can once more move forward, rather than stagnating and trying to return to the 18th-century. With it will go I hope with my blessing all of the politically correct claptrap that is done so much to contaminate social dialogue over the last few decades. Perhaps to we will see less of the anti-white anti-male campaigning that has done so much to harm relations between the sexes. Well done the people of Britain.
Hear, hear!
Please note that the battle is not over yet.
A Cameron resignation is the next shot in the barrel to keep the UK in the EU.
The politics goes:
1 – Vote OUT.
2 – Government resigns
3 – General Election, fought with all parties having a manifesto to stay in, except UKIP
4 – Highly unlikely UKIP will win, so the general election will supersede the referendum…
“3 ā General Election, fought with all parties having a manifesto to stay in, except UKIP”
It’s unlikely the conservative party will decide to back “in.” If it does, it will split the party and nearly half of it will defect to UKIP.
“A Cameron resignation is the next shot in the barrel ”
DONE !!!
AGW is now oficially terminated. Trumpo will win in the USA the people have spoken and have had enough from small PC minorities. The greens are finished as is the EU. Europe will function much better with each country independent.
If only it were so easy Eliza š
Let’s hope so, let’s hope so…..
Its a great day to be British.
Feel exhausted after staying up all night but absolutely elated.
From where I’m sitting I would be shitting my pants if I was Hillary ?
One does wonder whether this pre-sages the downtrodden Americans from Main Street sticking 200 nukes up the backsides of all the US Establishment ‘experts’ in November??
One can only hope so.
http://www.britannia.com/history/docs/kipling.html
‘You musn’t sell, delay, deny,
A freeman’s right or liberty.
It wakes the stubborn Englishry,
We saw ’em roused at Runnymede!
Good to see the blood of the stubborn Englishry still runs through their descendants’ veins.
Cold and wet here. But a GOOD day.
The University of East Anglia is Colonel Klink from Hoganās Heroes ā always confidently wrong. If you donāt know what is right, just do the opposite of what UEA advises and you will be good. This works for Brexit, climate, scientific inquiry, and social policy.
Out of 190 odd nations only 28 (soon 27) are in the EU. None of the English speaking nations are in the EU. None of the British Commonwealth nations are in the EU. Great Britain is the 5th largest economy in the world. The only EU Country above us is Germany. Greece,Italy, Portugal, Spain and France are in decline. India, China, the USA, who we are now able to trade with as we wish are in ascendance. We are a NATO country, the second largest contributor. We are in the G10 and G7.
What we need now is Churchillian Leadership to throw off the shackles of a corrupt despotic organisation that has increasingly relied on Soviet style diktats to suppress the Greeks, the Spanish and the Portuguese and establish an unelected Commisariat in Brussels and Strasbourg.
My only reservation is that we will not find such a leader. The current crop of Politicians look like the audience of the Wheel of Fortune.
+10, Ivor. Well said.
At my wife’s request, I have been a part of the Wheel of Fortune audience. Sir, I object to being compared to politicians!
Wheel of Fortune…
http://65.media.tumblr.com/4979592c4892159acf95dc31c2cd36f0/tumblr_o8p8qvrM0T1ty9rczo1_500.jpg
LOVE IT. +1!
‘A British vote to leave might even trigger a soviet style unravelling of the entire EU ā France, Holland and Italy are also preparing to hold referendums to leave the EU, if Britain votes to leave.’
The British do the problematic stuck building EU a great service – The normal conflict centralism / federalism .
The geographical construct within the exterior boundaries should be managed centrally.
But:
The circumstances of individual countries must be considered. And there can be no veto right for each State . This had to be shown the recalcitrant bureaucrats .
Well done, UK!
“Free at last, free at last, thank God almighty, free at last” Somebody [/s] once said that: it applies to our UK’s Independence Day!!
(Sorry, Dodgy, I hadn’t seen you post the same up above. Great minds, eh?) š
Hi, Harry Passfield,
Here is your fine quote’s author, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. I Have a Dream (1963)
(youtube)
{2:44} …free at last, free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!
Congratulations to you, over there in England!
Janice
Thanks for the video, Janice. You must know I knew it was King, but part of the sarc in my post was that the “somebody once said that” – or – “somebody said that once” is homage to Dylan.
Dear Harry,
You’re welcome. No, I’m afraid I DID think you had momentarily forgotten. Ooops. I thought the ” /s” thing was a typo! Just did not get the sarc/Dylan allusion — at — all. Thanks for taking the time to explain.
Janice
Janice: I checked the lyric (Dylan). It just gets better:
“Talkin’ World War III Blues”
I believe that despite the bureaucratic problems of leaving, it is the best choice – for one reason.
When you get energy policy completely wrong like the EU has, almost nothing else that you do really matters.
Cheap abundant reliable energy is the lifeblood of society – it IS that simple.
When misinformed politicians fool with energy systems, innocent people suffer and die.
So true. …
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/02/27/exxon-stands-up-to-the-green-bullies/comment-page-1/#comment-2154602
On Energy:
I have worked in the energy industry for much of my career.
When challenged on the global warming question by green fanatics, I explain that that fossil fuels keep their families from freezing and starving to death.
Cheap abundant reliable energy is the lifeblood of society – it IS that simple.
Furthermore, I suggest that recognition of this reality is an ethical and a professional obligation.
The following numbers are from the 2015 BP Statistical Review of World Energy, for the year 2014:
http://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/pdf/energy-economics/statistical-review-2015/bp-statistical-review-of-world-energy-2015-primary-energy-section.pdf
Global Primary Energy Consumption by Fuel is 86% Fossil Fuel (Oil, Coal and Natural Gas),
4% Nuclear,
7% Hydro,
and 2% Renewables.
That 2% for Renewables is vastly exaggerated, and would be less than 1% if intermittent wind and solar power were not forced into the electrical grid ahead of cheaper and more reliable conventional power.
This is not news ā we have known this energy reality for decades. As we published in 2002.
āThe ultimate agenda of pro-Kyoto advocates is to eliminate fossil fuels, but this would result in a catastrophic shortfall in global energy supply – the wasteful, inefficient energy solutions proposed by Kyoto advocates simply cannot replace fossil fuels.ā
On Grid-Connected Wind and Solar Power:
Wind Power is what warmists typically embrace ā trillions of dollars have been squandered on worthless grid-connected wind power schemes that require life-of-project subsidies and drive up energy costs.
Some background on grid-connected wind power schemes:
The Capacity Factor of wind power is typically a bit over 20%, but that is NOT the relevant factor.
The real truth is told by the Substitution Capacity, which is dropping to as low as 4% in Germany ā that is the amount of conventional generation that can be permanently retired when wind power is installed into the grid.
The E.ON Netz Wind Report 2005 is an informative document:
http://www.wind-watch.org/documents/wp-content/uploads/eonwindreport2005.pdf
(apparently no longer available from E.ON Netz website).
Figure 6 says Wind Power is too intermittent (and needs almost 100% spinning backup);
and
Figure 7 says it just gets worse and worse the more Wind Power you add to the grid (see Substitution Capacity dropping from 8% to 4%).
The same story applies to grid-connected Solar Power (both in the absence of a āSuper-Batteryā).
This was obvious to us decades ago.
Trillions of dollars have been squandered globally on green energy that is not green and produces little useful energy.
On Global Warming Alarmism:
We also write in the same 2002 article, prior to recognition that the current ~20 year āPauseā (actually a Plateau) was already underway:
āClimate science does not support the theory of catastrophic human-made global warming – the alleged warming crisis does not exist.ā
I (we) now think global cooling will commence after the current El Nino runs its course, prior to 2020 and possibly as soon as 2017. Bundle up!
Regards to all, Allan
I stated above: “When misinformed politicians fool with energy systems, innocent people suffer and die.”
In the four winter months (Dec-Mar) of 2012-13, the United Kingdom had about 50,000 Excess Winter Deaths. The USA, a country with FIVE TIMES the population of the UK, has about 100,000 Excess Winter Deaths in a typical winter.
This and other statistics indicate that the UK typically has many more Excess Winter Deaths per capita than the USA, Canada and the Scandinavian countries. This high winter death rate in the UK is caused by high energy costs and failure to adapt to winter (poor home insulation, etc.).
Prematurely killing off the elderly and the poor helps to cut the governmentās deficit, but perhaps there are better ways to save money ā such as killing off all subsidies to worthless grid-connected wind and solar power.
*******
Reference:
Cold Weather Kills 20 Times as Many People as Hot Weather
By Joseph DāAleo and Allan MacRae
September 4, 2015
https://friendsofsciencecalgary.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/cold-weather-kills-macrae-daleo-4sept2015-final.pdf
The paralyzing decision congestion in the EU is finally broken , the other part states will be able to renegotiate what doesnāt suit their circumstances .
The reaction to Brexit in the financial markets is completely rediculous, crazy, reminds me of the 2008 financial collapse and before. This, however, could be the catalyst that breaks up the EU zone. Look for rumblings from the the Dutch, the Danes and the Italians IMO.
However, the implications of this are far reaching, much father than supporters seem to have considered. Employment law, health law, industrial law, immigration law you name it, the EU has had some input. There are many laws created in the EU zone and applied to the UK that will need to be repealed. There are many migrants from other EU countries living in Britain. There are many Britons who live in other countries in the EU zone. Passports and visas to be revoked.
In any case, article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty gives “negotiators”up to 2 years to reach an “agreement”. If no agreement is reached, the UK is, automatically, removed.
The markets are reacting to uncertainty. Things will settle down soon because there is no underlying economic reason for immediate panic. It’s all psychology and computer trading.
Here in the US, durable goods orders for May were released this morning. Down 2.2 %, vs .5 % expected.
Couple that with recent jobs data, and may already be falling into recession. This is just one more kick in that direction.
If a recession materializes it will be nearly impossible for the Democrats to win the White House in November.
However, the implications of this are far reaching, much father than supporters seem to have considered. Employment law, health law, industrial law, immigration law you name it, the EU has had some input. There are many laws created in the EU zone and applied to the UK that will need to be repealed.
There’s no hurry; here’s what happened when India became independent:
… while independence was declared in India in 1948, a law review commission was not set up until 1955 and, so leisurely did it proceed that there are still laws on the Indian statute book that originated in Westminster.
Above extract from: http://eureferendum.com/
There are other examples:
Similarly, of Poland, although the collapse of the Soviet empire occurred in 1989, the Constitutional Tribunal did not make its ruling until 1995.
Same source as previous example.
These bureaucrats were law- Post of lobbyists . When they were asked : ‘ well , we do not know what the people want . ‘ Now they know – and groan under the load .
And I will add this, when Ted Heath took the UK in to the “Common Market” on January 1st 1973, as it was called then, he did so without a mandate “from the people” election time. There was a referendum in 1974, but the damage was done. Britons voted to stay. That decision pretty much destroyed the export economy of New Zealand in one hit.
Cameron committed political suicide by leading the “Remain” program.
Looking forward to a secession referendum in at at least one State of the US, during the next decade …… Plenty of reasons coming up.
I have seen all of the dire predictions, and they are no more credible than a 200 foot sea level rise in 20 years.
This is the best thing to happen in decades, and will reverberate for another few years yet. I’m thrilled for the UK, yes even the “remainers”, as they will soon realize that “leave” wasn’t a bad choice after all.
I have a new anthem for the European Union. It goes like this “28 green bottles sitting on a wall and if one green bottle should accidently fall there’ll be 27 green bottles sitting on the wall. 27 green bottles………..”
This may set off another financial crisis, but only because Europe’s banks are so precariously over-leveraged that any shock could collapse them. I think this is what Mr. Market is worried about–and rightly so. I think this concern is the hidden, unspeakable reason so many establishment figures backed Remain. They still can’t mention it, because doing so could be the peddle that starts an avalanche, from the intangible factor of loss of confidence.
That loss of confidence is showing in the steep rise in, among other things, gold and Bitcoin since the vote.
The UK will be blamed, unfairly, for this.
pebble
Freedom is worth it. Real freedom, not the climate consensus sort of freedom. Congratulations to the people of Britain. They have voted for freedom. Now what will they make of it?
Nicola Sturgeon has two slogans ready made for her:
Take back control
Independence Day
Both of which Donald Trump seems to approve of.
Mark Steyn has begun to gloat:
http://www.steynonline.com/7546/steyn-was-right-and-i-was-wrong-cont
Excellent, Roger, thanks! š
Interesting times indeed. Be careful what you wish for, it might just happen.
EU referendum result: Sinn Fein’s Martin McGuinness calls for border poll on united Ireland after Brexit
Brexit: Nicola Sturgeon says second Scottish independence vote ‘highly likely’
Of those the former might well be more problematic for the UK, a million British Ulster Unionist citizens heading to England possibly starting today? Scotland may raise some interesting discussions within the UK and EU, before leaving or even creating a federal UK, that’d be a turn-up for the books.
Scotland can rely on their wind turbines,
England on gas and coal.
Have fun, Scotland. š
North sea oil, production declining.
Actually they have been discussing Scotland and Northern Ireland at length on new reports from UK and it seems.
1.) Both countries must be given the right for an independence vote by the UK parliament. The UK granted this years vote which was lost but it isn’t clear what the political fallout would be if they refused the rights.
2.) The UK is both countries major trading partner by massive amounts and they have nothing to gain from joining the EU. The fees from the EU would cripple both small countries the UK current fees to the EU is somewhere around 12 Billion pounds last year. As both countries have less trade it would be lower than that but as a guide Norway’s contribution for access to the EU market is 6 Billion Euro per year.
3.) The exit does not have to be immediate the UK can chose the time and it can’t be thrown out by the EU so long as it keeps paying it’s fees. The use of article 50 is solely on the British time they select to do it the EU can not dictate that.
Interesting indeed the UK actually has a quite strong position thanks to some of the clauses it fought for a long way back when it entered the EU 48 years ago.
LdB says : “.. Norway’s contribution for access to the EU market is 6 billion Euro per year”.
First of all, Norway does not pay for the “access to the market”. We pay to different funds and programs including education, science programs, common border control etc were we also participate (and get something back for the money). The total amount is 391 million Euro per year (for the period 2014 to 2021)
Ćystein, Norway
His predictions were far better than their climate work, maybe they should run their numbers by him.
This vote is going to normalize Leave or cut-back sentiment in many European countries. It will open the Overton window and make the matter more respectable. That in turn will increase its vote-share.
Those who want the EU to persist should immediately undertake big reforms, starting with such no-brainers as cutting EU employees’ salaries & perks and installing a strong inspector generals’ office to root out corruption.
Even then they could not be trusted. The rot would creep back in, indeed it would always be just below the surface. Gang-green is gangrene. It has to be lopped off completely.
What you ask, cutting EU salaries, perks, installing IGs, etc. is like expecting US Congressmen to cut back on their salary and perks of their position. They control their own salaries and perks. At least US Congressmen are restrained by the fact they can get voted out. An EU bureaucrat has no threat of someone above him throwing him out.
The only solution forward is to let the institution crumble, and start over on something different. Sometimes, a house really is too badly built and diseased to repair. Just tear it down, toss out the worm and termite damage, and build anew with lessons learned about accountability and human nature. And most of all, Set up governing structures that require policy to be evaluated on outcome, not on intent.
The EU had been captured by special interests and has not been working for more than 20 years. French farmers, the greens, green energy, socialist zealots.
There are rules for everything which are actually designed to stop free trade and support some “movement” which gained power in the EU bureaucracy.
An accurate description. The EU is almost designed as a platform for special interests (like unions) rather than general interests. Free trade in a kind, but in the end it stopped being about free trade but rather about uniform legal obstacles. Harmonization instead of liberty.
It would have helped the Euro Nationalists if they actually identified themselves clearly as nationalists and Euro patriotic rather than pushing vigorously some series of left wing stuff starting from pro-Isl*m and pro-P*lestine ending to prof*minism and prog*y. Progressive rock is OK, progressiveness in terms of sharing your tax money in their pet projects is really not.
And to make sure everyone understands: I’m not for misog*nism, bullying g*ys, or for sinking refuge3s in the Mediterranean. I’m against gunmen, slavetrade, and spoiling environment. It is all about how to do things, not about whether to do things.
Congratulations Christopher Monckton. Well done.
I voted to leave the EU yesterday and I’m as surprised as anyone that the vote went the way it did. I’m not convinced it will equal any massive changes in environmental policies in the UK, at least not in the short term. Most UK politicians remain convinced that mankind is causing the climate to change, and a large number of our sitting MPs voted for the Climate Change Act 2008. Hopefully when the dust settles we might get a bit more reasoned debate.
Big respect to Nigel Farage,, head of UKIP,, for banging on about the huge pile of fertiliser which is the EU for a quarter of a century – and who finally forced David Cameron to allow this referendum.
Some pretty red-faced bookmakers this morning who thought they new EVERYTHING, but now find out they know NOTHING….
Oh – and predictions of financial Armageddon slightly overblown – sure, sterling sank from $1.50 last night (Remain factored in) to $1.32 in the early hours – has now recovered to about $1.39….
Ditto the FTSE – sank from 6200 to 5800 – but now back above 6000…
Without Nigel Farage, NONE of this would have happened.
“A small stone makes only a ripple, at first, but eventually, it will be a wave.” ~Wiegraff, Final Fantasy Tactics
One of my favorite lines. One person, willing to throw in that first small stone, CAN make all the difference.
āOne person, willing to throw in that first small stone, CAN make all the difference.ā
As has been proved throughout history ā
Bonaparte, Christ, Einstein, Galileo, Gandhi, James Hanson, Hitler, Martin Luther, Mohamed, Emmeline Pankhurst, Louis Pasteur, Trotsky, Jethro Tull (not the pop group), George Washington, William Wilberforce, Mao Zedong; to name a few, have all made a difference ā¦but not all for the better.
But, people in glass houses shouldnāt throw stones !!
1saveenegy:
Only an idiot would live in a glass house, and we are not idiots. People who live in homes (we have homes, not houses) made of wood and stone can throw stones all we want. Mine is stucco over steel lath…
I suspect Nigel has brick. Very good brick… Perhaps even with a few spares for throwing brick…
PM Cameron has resigned.
If Boris Johnson becomes next UK PM, the AGWers will start to get truly desperate.
Will be a sight to savour. š
Andy, the sad fact is that BoJo’s Dad is a Remainer AND a Warmist. I hope that his idiocy did not get passed on to his son.
It”l be a tough job, to find a conservative in the Conservative Party.
Sound of brick striking window… at No.10 Downing…
The vote may have been about Economics and Sovereignty, but it was bad energy and immigration policy for no good reason that drove the points home.
I can’t begin to describe just how happy many of us are, here in Britain! But here’s what this forum should take note of…
THE POLITICS OF FEAR (so often used in the climate debate) DIDN’T WORK! It failed, miserably.
The climate of fear is failing in the Climate Change debate, too.
Britain votes to exit EU. A Limerick on the teakettle revolt.
Item: EU bureaucrats hold off banning high power small appliances such as electric teakettles until just after the British referendum to stay in or leave EU.
With bureaucrats wisdom uncanning;
electrical teakettles banning.
Tāwas the last straw for Brits,
so they did call it quits.
End EU and world order planning? https://lenbilen.com/2016/06/24/britain-votes-to-exit-eu-a-limerick-on-the-teakettle-revolt/
But then again, here in Boston tea is not quite our bag.
What still makes me laugh is that the political elite, politicians and union leaders alike, in the UK cannot even see that people are willing to pay whatever the additional costs are for our independence. I know it will have an impact on me but accept it as a necessary evil. People until today laughed at me, it will be interesting to see if that still happens. Of course one thing is that people might have to start thinking for themselves rather than go around in their “matrix world”
Interesting times ahead
Yep, me too. This will reduce house prices – my house price, but I don’t care. It is great for the young.
To all our British friends, now the hard part begins. Everything that goes wrong will be blamed on the exit vote. There will be a period of “oh no, what do we do now” and a push to reverse the decision. Stand strong, your vote is a victory for all who cherish the belief that the people have the right to determine their own destiny.
I suspect that once all is send and done and things get on with it, you will find that the economic impact of this on both Britain and what may remain of the EU is minimal at best. Trade agreements exist because people benefit. If there was benefit before, there is likely to be benefit now.
No-one knew what would happen when the UK was joined to the Common Market in 1973. No-one will know what will happen after June 23rd 2016 with regards to the UK and the EU. I suspect the UK leaving the EU will be the catalyst for the inevitable breakup of the EU. I can only thank sensible (?) UK politicians for binning the Euro and retaining Stirling. For better or worse, a choice was on offer and a decision made by ordinary people, not un-elected politicians in Belgium.
The concept of the EU was never going to work anyway IMO. Disparate currencies, politics, culture etc etc. Unlike the USA.
A genuine question. I take it most here are from the USA and seem to welcome the break up of the UK and EU. Would you also welcome a similar breakup of the USA? For example if Texas was to vote to leave the Union?
…No comparison..They EU was / is a socialist dictatorship !!
So is the US.
I would welcome the break up of the USA into a loose North American federation, with Canada and maybe the conservative-leaning northern states of Mexico.
Or keep the USA but kick out the states and counties east of the Alleghenies, as suggested by Goldwater. Plus a few other Commie enclaves around the Great Lakes, in South Florida and on the West Coast.
But the Upper Peninsula of Michigan stays! We have guns, guts and beavers. Also, a ridiculous amount of snow.
Couldn’t agree more about the UP and most of the Mitten part of the Great State of Michigan.
We were, once, a Federation…
To answer the question:
IFF it gets much worse, yes. Separation is preferable to oppression.
(I thought we made that clear in 1776…)
If we return to our limited central government roots, no.
We have representative government, so still have time to fix it. If we get a “third term of Obama”, a separation wil be highly welcomed. For now, I’m working on permanently relocating myself from California into one of the more sane States like Florida or Texas. (It is remarkably hard to clean up 30 years in the same house… er garage š
My son has already left. Best friend moved to Florida about a decade back…
When this self sorting gets strong enough, or the Central Authority too authoritarian, well, that is what the 2nd Amendment is about, not murdering bambi or burglars.
I do hope for a pruning of the out of control central government, but we can survive if that fails.
Here’s my plan, FWIW, ie not much at this point:
1) The Democratic Peoples’ Republic and Socialist Workers’ Paradise of Trans-Alleghania: Everything east of the Alleghanies and north of the Potomac. Or maybe Rappahannock.
2) The DPRSWP of Erie: A swath wrapping around the Lake from Pittsburgh or Dayton to Flint, encompassing Cleveland, Ann Arbor and Detroit.
3) The DPRSWP of Upper Mississippia: From Gary to Duluth and down river to St. Louis, then up the Missouri to Kansas City, including Chicago, Milwaukee and Minneapolis-St. Paul, but excluding NE WI (Green Bay) and western MN.
4) The DPRSWP of Front Rockia. From Santa Fe to Boulder.
5) The DPRSWP of Swamplandia: southern third of the Florida.
6) The DPRSWP of Alta California: LA and environs.
7) The DPRSWP of Yerba Buena: Bay Area and Sacto.
8) The DPRSWP of Willamatta-Pugetia. From Eugene to Bellingham west of the Cascades, with apologies to the good farming folk of the Valley and SW WA.
9) The United State of America: everywhere else.
Might want to split the rump USA in two, with a theocracy in the SE and Midwest, and a libertarian Inter-mountain West.
False analogy and false logic. Go cry somewhere else.
Thanks for your considered response. The only reason I raised the analogy is that Christoper Monckton has been reported as wanting Texit.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/06/04/monckton-its-time-for-texit-texas-should-secede-thatcher-advisor-says/
He doesn’t think it’s a false analogy:
He’s entitled to his opinion on “Texit”. You are being disingenuous though, in your implication that he was comparing the US to the EU. He was only saying that the referendum was an example of what “could” be done in Texas. It would never work, of course.
California has already declared itself de facto independent — see their laws regarding firearms and nuclear-free zones and immigrant sanctuaries — as well as Colorado (marijuana), Connecticut (firearms, again), New Jersey (firearms, free speech) and many, many other states. As they say, “the center cannot hold…” Read some of what John Derbershire has written. (If you dare.)
“A genuine question. I take it most here are from the USA and seem to welcome the break up of the UK and EU. Would you also welcome a similar breakup of the USA? For example if Texas was to vote to leave the Union?”
Noone wants to see a “happy” home broken up. An unhappy home *should* be broken up.
If Texas were ever unhappy enough with the federal government, they would leave, but they are nowhere near that position, and have many alternatives when it comes to Washington DC trying to dictate to them.
No, we don’t want to see Texas leave the Union, we want everyone to be one big happy family, and so far, we are managing to have that, despite what you might see on the television.
We have a president who oversteps his Constitutional authority to a great extent, but even this hasn’t triggered much “leave” mentality. We are just going to take care of that in the next national election. The States still have their sovereignty, even under Obama, and will fair even better under a new president who doesn’t abuse his power.
Britain did not have a chance to change things with a vote, because they were governed by people at the EU the British did not vote for. That’s not the case in the USA. The USA can “vote the bums out!”, if necessary.
Britain voted to take back control of their lives. I love it!
Excellent analysis. However, I do think the “vote the bums out” sentiment is gaining a good deal of momentum in the USA. Hence the ascendance of Trump.
I would be in favor of a lot more of the government moved from the Federal level to the State level.
Agreed, but state governments are also too onerous. Much of what they do should be done at the local level or not be done by government at all.
Power should be spread as widely as possible, with the federal regime doing only what it can and should do, with the states, local government, private associations and ultimately the people doing what they do best.
The question has already been raised and resolved. The U.S. Civil War (1861 to 1865) was about succession. It is not allowed. There will be no state departures in the U.S.of A.
However your question is not even a serious one. The United States have been the United States since 1786 …. more than 200 years. And in spite of immigration issues, English is still the common language throughout the U.S. and the culture in every state is still uniquely American. Compare this to the EU: 48 years old. No common language. Significant cultural differences between members.
If you want to ask a genuine question, ask how the departure of Scotland will affect England. There you have strong common bonds.
“It is not allowed.”
Push people hard enough and they won’t give a frolic about what’s “allowed”. They’ll do it anyhow.
States may not yet be pushed hard enough to openly rebel or seek neo-secession, but the American Far Left is sure trying it’s best to drive us apart. Our common cultural bonds are starting to fray after years of abuse from The Bullies Who Say Bigot and their allies in the courts (some of whom are also part of The Draconians Who Say Denier).
Dear Bellman,
No. We view the United States of America as a single nation, not as a group of nations.
Each state has sovereignty within its borders, but, if Abraham Lincoln’s wisdom taught us anything, the Union must be preserved above all else (he did not promote emancipation of slaves for a long time, much to the anger of many on his own side — for the nation was not ready to go that far, just preserve the Union), for, (from the American Revolution)
United we stand, divided we fall. Let us not split into factions which must destroy that union upon which our existence hangs. Patrick Henry, 1799).
It is hard to convey, I think (from what I’ve read on this site from British trying hard to understand Americans’ deep love of their country), but we see ourselves (most of us) as Americans first. Our loyalty to our state of residence does not strike nearly as deeply into our hearts. Texas may be an exception (the exception which proves the rule, in my opinion).
We see the United Kingdom (or, “England,” lol, as we often call it, heh) as a sovereign nation, not a member of the EU. The EU was a coalition (I say was, for I am convinced it is going to crumble) of the reluctant (to paraphrase Tony Blair, v. a v. the Iraq war).
We see this as the UK getting FREE of statism and a sickeningly inept, ignorant, and avaricious, bureaucracy.
So, hip, hip, hurrah! š
Janice the American
P.S. Irving Berlin’s “God, Bless America” with its “… land that I love…” captures the spirit we Americans imagine you British to feel for your own country. And “The Star Spangled Banner,” with its “… our flag was still there…” captures the feeling we Americans imagine you British have for your Union Jack. Music can help you understand our heart, I think. And all those soldiers over the centuries who have fought to keep Great Britain free from foreign domination…. we imagine you to want to honor their sacrifice for your liberties.
Bottom line: We are so happy for you, for your LIBERTY!
Bellman, a good part of our problems will be solved when (not if) the San Andreas fault finally discards Kalifornia into the dark abyss. (Sorry to our host in Chico)
Tom:
I grew up near Chico. The Central Valley of California has tried a few times to leave the liberal grip of San Francisco & LA. While the coastal megacities are Progressive Left, the inland working rural areas are strongly consevative. Oddly, the San Andreas does mostly mark the divide….
I would vote 100% for a coastal vs inland split into two States, but the prior initiatives have been N vs S and missed the reality…
IMO, four or five states would be better.
1) The State of Jefferson in the north, 2) The State of North California in the Central Valley, 3) the State of West California in the Bay Area and Sacramento, 4) the State of South California in Los Angeles, Ventura, Santa Barbara, and San Luis Obispo Counties, and 5) the State of East California in Inyo, Orange, San Bernardino, Riverside, Imperial and San Diego Counties
@Gabro:
Works for me… just make sure the rural parts of counties dominated by a remote urban core area are split appropriately. San Bernardino, for example, toss the city to L.A….
Though I could see an Alpine California of Cascades and Sierra Nevada counties…
EM,
That would work, but you’d have to venture into the Valley conveniently to go from north to south in the Cascadia-Sierran state.
Agree about the urban areas of San Bernardino and Riverside Counties. And maybe give Imperial County to Mexico.
Eff the E U!
“But this time the establishment consensus coincided with a historic loss of faith in the experts. These were the people who failed to predict the Credit Crunch, who missed the greatest economic disaster to hit us since the Great Depression. And we were supposed to believe them? Slowly the consensus came to resemble not just a conspiracy but, worse, a confederacy of dunces.” – Tim Stanley UK Telegraph
I continue to hope that people come to their senses about the “settled science” of today. A “confederacy of dunces” is mild compared to what I would call it. Modern day Lysenkoism in drag is about the kindest thing I can think of.
I love the smell of freedom in the morning! And the blow to Climatism and the Green Blob is icing on the cake.
I heard some whining this morning on NPR, that this was a complex issue, and that there were a lot of people voting who normally don’t vote, who may not have fully understood it. How patronizing and hypocritical. Had the vote gone the other way, they would have been singing its praises, and about how “sensible” the voters were.
WOO HOO!!!! You go UK!!!! Good on you.
I agree with you Bruce.I listen to NPR, etc and have trouble finding opposing views. Thank god for this site!
A great write up this morning at The Conservative Treehouse.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/06/24/the-peasants-are-revolting-disconnected-political-institutions-meet-their-monster-voters/
Meanwhile here in the US, Wall Street is about to throw a hissy fit. Big buying opportunity for those ready to pounce. It will be back up again in no time.
I’m predicting significant global cooling now that the hot air and rhetoric has come to an end.
The UK has voted that democratic accountability is prized over economic security.
This is the end of the beginning, not the beginning of the end.
I am happy for England. The EU had become the EUSSR and unelected bureaucrats had become England’s government.
Prior to the Soviet meltdown, the only way a country could leave the USSR was to go to war with Russia. Here we had a peaceful separation, and the better for everyone.
EU greenies were on their way to control all energy production and end use in Europe, and it made me sick to think of electrical power outages and lack of heat for people – all to please some EU greenie.
The curtain has come down on that act, and the Italiano and the Dansk are probably thinking the same thing right now
“Here we had a peaceful separation”
Peaceful? The globalist mafia wants to make it as painful as possible. They say:
“This will not be an consensual divorce.”
The way is see it, UK should leave the domicile without a divorce: begin ignoring the EU power and regulation.
To take the higher ground, you have to be a stronger bully!
“simple-touriste June 24, 2016 at 10:59 pm
The way is see it, UK should leave the domicile without a divorce: begin ignoring the EU power and regulation.”
You mean taking the French approach to their EU masters? I don’t see that happening, but I can only wish my British “leaders” had the fortitude to tell the EUcrats (Crat = ruling elite) where to go.
Congratulations to my British cousins. You have voted to keep your sovereignty and maintain your identity. Sensible energy policy is sure to follow.
..Tom in Florida
To all our British friends, now the hard part begins. Everything that goes wrong will be blamed on the exit vote. ….
Don’t worry about that. A number of EU decisions which the Brits wouldn’t like have been delayed so as not to influence the vote. They will now be announced over the next few weeks.One was to create an EU Armed Forces. The Brits won’t like that. Another was to cut power for all domestic devices to 1/3 of present. This includes KETTLES.
Have you seen what happens when the Brits are forced to wait an extra 10 minutes for a cup of tea?
Sheesh! Good thing they got off that sinking ship. They keep torpedoing themselves!
It still requires the same amount of energy to boil a pint of water so why lower power kettles? ie less power for longer so I assume related to gree energy sources.
You get between an Englishman and his Darjeeling at your peril. I’d liken it to being between a Klingon and his blood wine.
I am British by birth and I also lived in Ireland and Belgium and I never EVER heard of English or Irish breakfast tea until I migrated downunder to New Zealand and Australia. To me, it’s just tea. The Chinese can have their opium.
I will now apply to re-join the Conservative party and cast my vote in due course for the next leader. A GREAT DAY. Maybe we can ditch the crazy green policies of the last 20 years — see GWPF ad infinitum.
Michael Oxenham
The Climate Change Act had nothing to do with the EU. It was all self-inflicted.
from wiki (sorry)
Ed Milibandās 2008 Climate Change Bill was preceded by a Private Member’s Bill of the same name[13] drafted by Friends of the Earth and brought before Parliament on 7 April 2005.
Wiki, credible source? LOL
Patrick MJD commented: “..The Climate Change Act had nothing to do with the EU. It was all self-inflicted….”
So you don’t see the EU as an artifice of the UN?
Patrick,
The figures of the Royal Commission on Environmental Pollution were based on the EU Council of Ministers’ June 1996 decision to limit emissions to 550 ppm, contained in their Community Strategy on Climate Change. This, in turn, was based on the UN’s 1995 IPCC Second Assessment Report, which first mentioned an alleged connection between 550 ppm and 2 Ā°C temperature increase.
So while Parliament and the Labour government were responsible for the Act, its target came from the EU and UN.
Patrick, as you donāt like wiki ā¦ wade through this lot !!
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2008/27/contents
http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2007-08/climatechangehl.html
or this simplified text –
http://euanmearns.com/the-origins-of-the-2008-uk-climate-change-act/
The UK 2008 Climate Change Act was seen as a vote catcher by our glorious leaders who desperately tried to show they were greener than the greenest greens & then shagged the UKās energy security at the stroke of a pen.
I’ve been looking at buying another car lately. That 2017 Jaguar sure does look nice.
One noticeable observation was how similar the propaganda with the remain camp was so like the climate alarmists. Everything bad and blaming everything including the kitchen sink that will be worse off if they don’t have their own way. No facts to back any of them up of course, just assumptions. Can you believe even the cause of world war 3 was mentioned if UK didn’t remain. The pound did drop sharply one the first day due to the propaganda scare tactics, but like in climate this is just one weather event and the long term will be different.
Study history, indeed.
Would you folks on the other side of the pond be open to some sort of arrangement within NAFTA? I’ve often thought that might help mitigate the cost, if you leave the EEEuuuu!
Of course, the pink pony we have in the White House right now wouldn’t make the offer. His free trade bona fides are good, but I don’t think he likes you folks.
EU is coming apart like a cheap wind turbine.
Hƶffentlich!
Comment of The Day, billpatt.
Andrew
There is no such thing as cheap wind turbine. But they do fall apart.
There’s such a fantastic feeling here in Britain today that can’t be described in words. We’re all abuzz. We have control of our own destiny back. The EU is undemocratic, and we had to swallow decisions taken against our interests by people we couldn’t vote out! There was a horrible feeling of being strangled here, of powerlessness. We are free, once again, and we may even see the moaning Scots drift off too! They’d be crazy, but wtf, who cares? We could do with off-loading the constant problem of Northern Ireland onto them, by paying them to adopt it. And we clearly need to off-load Gibralter too, now that they have decided they’d rather be in the EU.
Great day for Great Britain.
Want to buy my domain: http://www.helpscotlandtoleave.com?
The Brexit movie made by the same person who did the Global Warming Swindle convinced many I think particularly the case of Switzerland who never joined any club anywhere and still does not.
Good to hear since I was a co-producer on Brexit-The Movie
Excellent job! I recommended that video to many people. I didn’t even know that Patrick Moore videoed an interview before he died. I very much liked that man – he wrote to me once and I still have the letter.
Ditto
I also was impressed with the movie, and had several people watch it. Generally, the response from the leftists was that it was all a pack of lies, but they never had a response to my challenge of showing me ONE lie.
IMO it was a brilliant piece of work.
I noticed that too. Switzerland seems to have done okay …
Britain will no longer have a support of intellectual giants Federika Mogherini, Martin Schultz, or Jean Claude Juncker. Their handling of the Brexit fallout will be as impressive as their handling of the Greek crisis. Don’t cry, it is too late to reconsider.
Bye-bye Draghi!
Lettuce not forget, for his indefatigable and unwanted nose-sticking into their business which boomeranged nicely, to thank the Big Zero. So, a big Bronx cheer, and – altogether now, THANKS, OBAMA!
I think the USA and Western World should now begin to decommission the United Nations. Like the European Union, the UN has proved itself successful ONLY at building up pointless, unaccountable bureaucracies. In all the noble, world-government style purposes imagined for it at the time of its founding, the United Nations has proved itself a failure, and a massive, expensive failure at that. Let’s stop wasting our money and end its bureaucratic parasitism.
Agree 100%. Ditch the UN and all of its NWO crap.
Where’s the Viscount? I would like Monkton’s opinion on this.
Perhaps he is celebrating?
Next up, Texit? https://www.rawstory.com/2016/06/texas-secessionists-inspired-by-brexit-if-trump-fails-texit-seems-to-be-our-best-remedy/
I posted this comment previously but since this seems to be a persistent question, I post the same answer again although it was for a slightly different question:
The question has already been raised and resolved. The U.S. Civil War (1861 to 1865) was about succession. It is not allowed. There will be no state departures in the U.S.of A. Period. 500,000 casualties in that war shows that it won’t happen again EVER.
However your question is not even a serious one. The United States have been the United States since 1786 ā¦. more than 200 years. And in spite of immigration issues, English is still the common language throughout the U.S. and the culture in every state is still uniquely American. Compare this to the EU: 48 years old. No common language. Significant cultural differences between members.
If you want to ask a genuine question, ask how the departure of Scotland will affect England. There you have strong common bonds.
The link you posted is just some click bait article and demonstrates again why many are upset with the federal government and the elites who think they know best …….
Dave In Michigan’s comment is well written, succinct, and accurate. While excellent political theater, talk about Texas (or any other state) exiting the Union is at best a succinct way of expressing dissatisfaction with the perceiver (accurate or not) weakening of the 10th amendment to the US Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights. “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
The War of Northern Aggression did not settle the issue of secession. Clearly, the Declaration of Independence shows it is legal.
The linked exchange which you belittled included a comment by the governor of Texas. In many areas of the country, secession is being seriously considered. If Clinton be elected, the sentiment will swell.
The present federal regime is more onerous than under George III. Either power flows back to the states, local government, private associations and the people, as per the Constitution, or we’ll follow the example of 1776.
The Daily Kos ran a poll in 2009, when then governor Perry discussed the possibility of secession. It found that 57% opposed the idea while only 38% supported it. Among Native Texans v. Yankee immigrants, the figures could well be reversed.
And a similar poll of British American colonists in 1766 might have returned even less support for independence from the Crown.
Doubtful. Unlike the EU, we are intimately linked with the rest of America. We have huge timelines of interconnections, an immense border, and we would gain no real benefit from leaving.
Besides, we settled the matter of secession rather bloodily 151 years ago, y’all. The father of my state and namesake of my city died of a broken heart from that tragedy. Let’s not repeat that mistake again.
***.***.***.
(To echo the very accurate ‘blue skies’ sentiment above,
a blue background for this #(:)) …)
Proverbs 25:25
Aah… from America.
For this venerable country who invented freedom, democracy, the industrial revolution, actual economics, etc. etc. and spread it and the English language and culture around the world, this is a wonderful event. People talk about the 48% being the losers. Take heart all of you. A big portion of the 48 were simply scared. They will have no problem coming back into the fold when they see that they were inveigled by the elitist doom sayers to take the safe route.
Not so for the new world order elitists. This will be a big chapter in world history books. The failure of the “takeover”, the rebirth of independence from the mean, hateful, elitists who peddle an ugly grey global agenda for their “inferiors”. Had this not happened now, a future revolt would have had to be bloody.
The UN which has been a bastion, a resource and an orchestrator and office central of this elitist ugliness is also now ready to fall apart. It has housed the marxbrothers (I’m particularly proud of this term which was coined to dodge the moderator, and the ‘gang green’ which I felt nicely identified today’s elitist militia and useful fools).
A brexit-type revolution is also happening in the US evidenced by the remarkable support for Donald Trump despite his seemingly politically suicidal gaffes. He has the economy and his priorities on who a president’s constituency is and he will get it all figured out with help from smart people in other sectors.
Germany and France, who don’t really understand who and what the English-speaking peoples are will be perplexed and amazed. Eastern Europeans, not so. They get it and they will be saying bye bye, too. Look for an association of Eastern European countries that will be just fine. The Mediterranean countries? well they will continue being what they are as they never really joined the union in spirit.
So Romania now has a Pres O. and EU partly built military base. I guess they can convert it to a theme park or Disney World thingy.
[Reply: “Marxbrothers” doesn’t dodge the moderators. I find it cute. It does dodge the word filter… poor dim thing… š -ModE]
Agree that many In voters will realize that they’ve been lied to by elitist scare mongers, although there may be some hardship over the next two years as the exit is engineered.
Corbyn should follow Cameron’s good example and resign.
Gary Pearse wrote: “For this venerable country who invented freedom, democracy, the industrial revolution, actual economics, etc. etc. and spread it and the English language and culture around the world, this is a wonderful event. People talk about the 48% being the losers. Take heart all of you. A big portion of the 48 were simply scared. They will have no problem coming back into the fold when they see that they were inveigled by the elitist doom sayers to take the safe route. ”
Excellent point.
Congrats Brits on leaving the EU (Evil Union) hopefully it is a sign sanity will return to the world or at least to the “West”!!!!! God speed!!
Cheers!
Joe
Sadly it won’t do anything in regards to the needless crap climate policy that is far more aggressive than that belonging to the other 27 nations of the EU. We still have this thing called the Climate Change Act, and it would take an act of Parliament to repeal it, and we still have the same clueless, poorly advised and brainwashed eejits in both the House of Commons and the Lords today, as we did yesterday.
There is hope. Boris Johnson is a mild climate skeptic or realist:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/weather/12060976/I-cant-stand-this-December-heat-but-it-has-nothing-to-do-with-global-warming.html
Maybe some of his Tory comrades and the few Labour skeptics, such as the Courtney family and other coal advocates, plus UKIP’s Chris Monckton, can start to turn things around.
One can only hope. Once a revolution starts, who knows where it might end?
PROGRESS…
… as opposed to “progressives” !
ValĆ©ry Giscard d’Estaing (former French President, one of the great promoters of “Europe”, considered one of the “fathers” of Europe) just now on TF1 (I only got the end of the interview):
My interpretation of what he was saying:
– there is no brexit disaster, and no need to panic;
– free trade can, should, and will continue with GB;
– EU institutions couldn’t work as designed anyway.
The EFTA worked better than the creeping communism of the EU has done so far.
YIPPEEEEEE!
“Prominent greens seem to want Britain to remain part of the anti-democratic EU,
Yes, who needs to get elected when you can lobby a like minded unelected bureaucracy?
Alarmist Remainians claim that Brexit is a result of global warming.
Are they “Remainians” or “Outlierians”?
Labels are important and should be accurate, don’t you know.
Well, I’d say “Remainians,” for by their language, they are clearly from AGW Land, and you cannot outlie those guys.
Can’t argue that logic – “Remainians” it is, er, they are!
There are Remainians and Brexiteers in a fight for supremacy. As the Brexiteers won, the Remainians now put the blame for their defeat on the weather and climate change. But the “Twelve-Star-Wars on Blue Ground” will go on anyway.
Look at the little tiny blue dot on this map in the sea of red covering East Anglia and Essex:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/leave-or-remain-eu-referendum-results-and-live-maps/
Yup, that’s Norwich, lair of the troglodytes of the UEA.
Sorry I haven’t time to reply to all the responses to my question. I think the take home message is that most here do not want to see the break up of the United States, for which I’m glad. I’d hate to think that Texit was regarded as anything but a joke.
Also I agree completely that the EU is not the same as the US, and I didn’t mean to imply they were. But I think it’s precisely because Europe consists of many nations and peoples and languages, that it’s better that there be some sort of union. If the EU goes and we are just left with a collection of nation states then it could become increasingly dangerous. The problem is that all the nations of Europe are pretty artificial – everywhere there are people who feel they would be better of in a different nation or independent. No EU, with all it’s faults, raises the specter of increasing division and conflict. The dark ages may return, to quote Churchill
Oh come on!
Heck, even I would support a Westxit … Let CA, OR and WA go.
But they don’t get to vote to secede from the union.
.
.
.
.
.
The rest of the country gets to vote on THEM leaving!
I’d vote to expel New England, NJ, eastern NY and PA, the Baltimore and DC areas first.
Only parts of the West Coast are the problem. Expel the Bay Area and LA County, the Portland and Seattle metro areas, plus Detroit, Chicago and St. Louis areas. If Canada doesn’t want them, they can stew in their own Dumpocrap Machine political pots.
The remainder would be a great country again.
This idea that individual states makes conflict more likely has no foundation in the modern era. We are all trading with one another both at the commodities level and at government level even those countries not in the EU.
Conflict is just as likely, if not more so (think families), in a multinational grouping as in a multination trade group. Think about WW1. Cousin on cousin.
Churchill was not a supporter of the EU nor was Thatcher. Any antidemocratic, dictatorial form of governing 500,000,000 people is bound to fail as did the USSR and China only survives by force of arms.
We were trading with each other before WW I. We were even trading with Germany during WW I.
I never mentioned Thatcher – here opposition to Europe is well known. Churchill may not have wanted the UK to be part of a European state, but he did advocate for a United States of Europe, and specifically with the purpose of keeping the peace in Europe:
http://churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html
Man alive, Bellman. Your side lost. What’s the point of arguing on and on here? You are mischaracterizing Winston Churchill — what are you, an AGWer? That’s THEIR style!
Owen (in Georgia) already refuted that one waaaay up this thread:
(Here: https://wattsupwiththat.com/2016/06/23/uea-brexit-remain-vote-probability-zero/comment-page-1/#comment-2244035 )
Have fun playing History Twister and Let’s Play Pretend Political Science and Economics. You are obviously not seriously trying to learn, here.
And…. lol, recalling your namesake (from The Bellman’s Speech, by Lewis Carroll), you are veeerry likely just a sock puppet ….
He said it in 1946, and is specifically referring to Word War 2
Mr Winston Churchill speaking in Zurich
19th September 1946.
http://churchill-society-london.org.uk/astonish.html
Texit isn’t the joke you like to think it is. As long as things constitutionally stay the way they are, it won’t happen – but if the left succeeds at getting rid of the 2nd, 4th, and 5th amendments, which they are trying to do right now, we’re outta here.
No one is trying to get rid of those things. That’s just crazy talk.
“No one” is apparently the same thing as several prominent Democrats. Pay attention to Feinstein or Murphy on recent gun control measures. Besides contempt for the 2nd amendment, they also have disregard for most of the rest of the Bill of Rights.
Only if you’ve been brainwashed by the gun nuts of the NRA, who apparently think everyone deserves their own assault rifle, I guess to be able to defend themselves from the zombie uprising.
Bruce,
Assault rifles are illegal without extensive and expensive Class III status.
An assault rifle is a select-fire weapon, ie capable of full-auto fire. If low-powered, semi-auto rifles such as those used by Islamic terrorists to commit mass murder in CA and FL were somehow magically made to disappear, then the terrorists would use far deadlier full-power, full-auto firearms like .30 cal assault rifles and machine guns.
By “gun nut”, I assume you mean the Founding Fathers and Framers of the Constitution. Semi-auto, .223 firearms are militia weapons, according to the Supreme Court, as indeed should be obvious, since the standing army uses full auto-capable .223 firearms.
Are you going to ban semi-auto handguns ans shotguns, too? The terrorists could have killed even more people with those. As if banning them will make millions of semi-auto firearms suddenly disappear. All such an unconstitutional act would do is make tens of millions of law-abiding, tax-paying citizens into criminals.
All you will do is make new opportunities for drug smugglers and human traffickers to run more lethal, full auto firearms and explosives into the US across the open border so dear to Democrat hearts.
Bruce,
To illustrate the difference between an assault rifle and a semi-automatic rifle, please watch this video of an AKM firing full auto:
NB: The CO movie theater mass murderer tried to use a drum magazine on his AR-15, but it jammed, as any competent shooter would have predicted. The fool didn’t know how to clear a jam, so dropped the rifle and switched to one of his pistols.
Here is an AR-15 evaluated against a shotgun as a home defense weapon. Please compare and contrast with the full-auto AKM. Thanks.
And now you know.
Thanks. Yeh, I’ve seen all the “arguments” the gun nuts use. Sorry, not buying it.
Dear Bruce,
Yes, they are, by making definitions that are functional lies. Like “assault weapon” that is chosen to sound like the already illegal without special licence “assault rifle”. If you can’t tell me the difference, then you have been duped. “Assault weapon” in California is defined to include pistols and shotguns. Didn’t know that? Maybe you ought to learn more…
Did you know that California already has an effective assault weapons ban? Yet San Bernarido happened.
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2016/06/18/what-california-teaches-about-assault-weapon-bans-they-fail/
Dear Bellman,
Sir Winston Churchill also said, in 1946, very accurately, … an iron curtain has descended across the Continent. When The Berlin Wall went up, things looked to stay that way permanently, a Socialist “paradise” out of which its people would never escape.
But, they did.
1989 — Berlin Wall — falls
Tyranny has its day, but, in the end, Truth wins.
Liberty frightens some people. Those people like lots of rules. Rules (along with the police to enforce them) make them feel safe. Those of us who would rather die than live as a slaves need to encourage and exhort and educate them about the consequences of statism, but we must never allow them to rule.
Inside a prison, it is very safe. Don’t trade your God-given right to be free from the control of the state — for anything.
Courage!
Janice
But a consequence of the leave vote could, if some get their way, be to close borders, and stop me from being able to freely move across Europe. That’s a freedom I really enjoy at the moment. Closing borders is more state control.
The borders won’t be closed, but controlled. A sovereign nation has the right to decide whom to let into the country and whom to keep out. Britain or England will still let you in, presumably, but the decision will be made in London, not Brussels.
Sorry should have said controlled rather than closed.
I’m already in Britain, it’s getting into Europe I’m talking about. At present we have an EU that makes it easy for people to travel through Europe. At present I could get a job anywhere in the EU and have the same rights as any national in that country. If stop this arrangement with the EU then my freedom to live and work in EU countries could be curtailed. I might need a work permit and a visa.
I suspect none of this will happen, because we will hopefully opt for a Norwegian style arrangement, and we won’t actually give up any of the EU agreements – but at present nobody knows exactly what we’ve signed up for by voting leave – that will be for state to decide.
Actually, we need to break up the country into at least five separate countries, by region: north east, south, south west, North west and Midwest for starters. That would include northern CO separating from Southern CA.
I’d go for a pro-American state of California wrapped around an anti-American coastal enclave from Marin to LA Counties, or two such enclaves, interrupted by SLO, Big Sur and Carmel.
What a great surprise they Britain had the bollocks to do this! I surely hope to see a nice follow up of all the things that actually come to pass compared to the inexhaustible list of fear mongering lefty predictions. Excuse now, me while I go and work on my WWIII survival bunker here in the Andes.
You’ve picked the right spot to ride out WWIII. Chile is not only almost literally the ends of the earth, but it is near the antipode of the center of human population, which is somewhere around Tajikistan. The population antipode lies in the “Sea of Chile”, that part of the South Pacific between Chile and Easter Island.
Democracy has prevailed, over unaccountable and bloated bureaucracy of the EU. Congrats UK!
Congrats UK! Now make your donation to the Clinton Foundation and we can begin negotiations anew. Act now and you can save 3 percent off what you would have paid Brussels in dues.
Brussels will have to shift their focus towards their survival in the years ahead. That could affect their ability to maintain their push on CAGW. I wonder If the UK will now take a second look at their position on the subject of global warming?
Back in the age of the dinosaurs (or was it even earlier? the days of pond slime??? so long ago, I don’t remember…) I was born in England. I spent 30 years there then moved to France. When i told people I was moving there, they just looked at me and said “Why? why would you do that? they don’t speak English! They eat FROGS”.
I spent 10 years there before moving to the US.
The Common Market was in place then, and it was working. There was nothing political about it, at least in principle. That was (IMHO) its great strength.
I learned a lot about the French. For example, I learned that English and French culture are MUCH closer than English and American — English people find this hard to believe, but it’s true. Get off the plane, in America, pick up your rental car and you immediately find that rather than having traffic lights on each corner of a junction as in the rest of the world, there is just one set in the middle of the junction, and that pulling up to the red light and stopping as anywhere else is not a good thing.
Then you notice that rather than having yellow lines on the outside of the road and white lines down the middle, its white lines down the outside and yellow lines down the middle.
Things just go downhill from there.
I often wonder what the world would be like if rather than spending most of history fighting each other, the English and the French had cooperated a bit more.
There is a comment above about French socialists.
Really, they are no worse than English (or that rare creature, the American socialist).
I will go so far as to say that socialists, in general, are not a bad lot. They act as a social conscience if nothing else. They do let their idealism overrule common sense some times, and seem particularly sensitive to progressive perversion, but they do have their place.
Philip Peake wrote:
“I will go so far as to say that socialists, in general, are not a bad lot. They act as a social conscience if nothing else. They do let their idealism overrule common sense some times, and seem particularly sensitive to progressive perversion, but they do have their place.”
Hello Philip,
I suggest that you are describing āold-socialistsā – at least some of them were reasonably sensible and fact-based.
The ānew-socialistsā who have taken over the environmental movement are another breed ā their campaigns to eliminate DDT and fossil fuels have caused and will continue to cause enormous damage to humanity and the environment.
When history is accurately written, the suffering and premature death of hundreds of millions of people will be attributed to these socialist fanatics. The death toll from their destructive environmental and energy policies and gross misallocation of resources will challenge the combines death totals of Mao, Hitler and Stalin (about 180 million).
Some of the new-socialists are neo-Malthusians ā Club of Rome types, and that is their stated intention. They want world human population to be reduced by more than 90%.
http://www.green-agenda.com/
“The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”
– Club of Rome, premier environmental think-tank, consultants to the United Nations.
Many others are just gullible followers, who cannot differentiate between what āfeels goodā and what ādoes goodā. Their intentions may be good, but they support destructive, often imbecilic policies that do great harm to humanity and the environment.
The modern environmental movement consists of a handful of scoundrels and millions of imbeciles. George Carlin explained this phenomenon when he said:
āYou know how stupid the average person is, right? Well, half of them are stupider than that!ā
Regards to all, Allan š
Allan, yes, that was who I was talking about. The socialists seem to have been infested by the progressives these days. It’s important to distinguish between them.
Progressives are probably more corrosive to the socialist movement than the communists.
At least in England, the socialists did a lot of good. The NHS would never have existed without them (and having experienced “socialized” medicine in the UK and France and the alternative in the US, I will take the socialized version, with all its deficiencies any day. Most of those deficiencies are fixable, for any government with any backbone, willing to clean out that which needs cleaning.
Similarly, labor laws would not be what they are, or even not exist, without socialists.
However, they do need to be counter balanced by a healthy conservative movement.
Progressives are totally corrosive to any society. They live in a world view which can only exist in their heads, but are willing to use any level of corruption and violence to try to achieve it. They are humanities greatest enemies right now.
Good answer Phillip.
Enjoy your weekend!
The vote heard round the world!
Congrats to the Brits for showing they still have guts. They got out before they got too far in because they still had their own currency. Thank goodness they didn’t give that up for the Euro like Blair and others wanted. Berlin and Brussels can bully Greece and other weak nations but found out the hard way that Britain is still an equal and will not tolerate being dictated to by a bureaucracy designed in 1942 by Reich Economic Minister Dr. Walhter Funk, who jointly sponsored a study, published in Berlin in 1942, on precisely how to establish such a Germany-dominated “federation.”
To the Scots I can only say why would you want to go from one foreign ruler to another? If you want to be independent, and yes that is 100% up to you, then be independent not a vassal of B&B. Don’t reject or select things just because the English choose it. Judge each item independently.
Except for Wales, the Leave vote wasn’t by the Brits but by the English. Maybe the actual Welsh voted to stay, but there were enough English retirees and others in Wales to swing the decision to Out from In. Well, OK, the Cornish are non-English Brits, too.
The other Brits, ie Scots and Northern Irish (well, not technically British) voted to stay.
Well the Scots did get most of the returned money from the English taxation to the EU so they are hardly impartial observers.
This will end if they did join the EU without the restof theUK’s contribution but no doubt the nationalists will not mention that bit. They will lose the council tax subsidies as well so apart from oil they will have nothing to offer anyone.
Spain had a referendum on the Europe Constitution Treaty in 2005, with a result of 77% yes, but with a ridiculous 42% turnout.
Spain was receiving a lot of “structural” help money at the time.
Then Spain discovered how many structurally useless buildings, museums, airports, etc. they had build, in the name of Roosevelt politics, which “always work”.
TRM
Yes!!!
The EU is another victim of CAGW = Catastrophic Anthropogenic Government Whoring.
The anti-native and [class] diversity (e.g. racist) factions’ social justice (e.g. “Arab Spring”) inspired humanitarian disaster that caused the global humanitarian refugee crises were first-order causes of Brexit.
Academic-Government?
After 402 thoughts on Brexit, this may be interesting. Following up one of the early posts, I came across the Indiana Pi Bill, and find that the Indiana Senate decided to postpone debate on it indefinitely. As the Indiana Lower House has already passed the Bill, it is possibly that some ex-Brussellist may persuade the Indiana Senate that it should resuscitate the debate, and pass the Bill.
It has taken a long time to come to fruition, but the worm has turned, see:
The money men have already started their revenge by a totally immoral attack on Sterling. Unless they are thick as two short planks they must be aware that nothing will happen for some time so the attack on Sterling was a revenge operation for disobeying them and nothing more. Except perhaps a warning to other states thinking of leaving.
That they started when they did was one of the most remarkable pieces of prediction in financial history or more likely some highly questionable insider leaking of counts before the official release.
“The UK will not be ‘welcomed with open arms’ by the remaining European Union if it votes to ‘desert’ the 28-nation bloc in the June 23 referendum, European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker has warned.”
Such a bad loser – the European Union started out well with the Roma treaty but was driven to failure by megalomaniacal politicians and bureaucrats! It has happened with United Nations too – I just takes a lot of guts to be the first statesman to take action.
People like to have alternatives – evolution and natural selection is based on having alternatives.
“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. ”
-Lord Acton
The aims of the European Union were peace, economic growth, free trade, freedom to live anywhere in the Union.
Now the aim of the EU is to keep the EU as it is.
100% of the French TV channels are on full hate mode.
Bullshit.
“Bullshit”
Please elaborate
Meaning they are for or against the EU?
The big French medias were trying to have a semblance of editorial balance on Europe a few years ago, before the French referendum on the Treaty for a Constitution for Europe – which they consistently described as “not a Constitution”, despite the “constitution” literally in the title!!!! The authorized experts, commentateurs, “Ć©ditocrates” could practically say an elephant isn’t an elephant, even with the elephant on top of them. Before that French referendum, they were giving most airtime (say 3/4) to the expected winners, the pro-treaty. After the victory of the French “no”, and the failure of the PR machine, instead of giving airtime to the (projected) future winners, the “yes”, they gave airtime to the losers, the “yes”!
Now they are in full-mode: the Brexiters are exaggerating, lying, and they killed Jo Co although they did not, in a they did it kind of way (are you crazy?).
And they are even interviewing academic “economists” (like Christian de Boissieu) about how we need to punish GB and ourselves, ’cause otherwise other nations might want to leave, ya know. (!!!!!)
GB is almost treated (actually threatened) like Russia invading Ukraine.
Also, they are interviewing progressists to explain that a referendum is only a snapshot of public opinion influenced by many factors, so the result is not a thing.
So I guess here it’s pretty much the URSS paradise, only people are too uneducated to notice.
A member of “EuropaNova” said we need more civic classes (we already have courses where we learn the structures of the political institution (l’AssemblĆ©e nationale, le SĆ©nat, le Parlement europĆ©en…)) and to send secondary school pupil abroad so that they become better European citizens (and learn more about foreign tongues, I guess).
I mean french TV is not on full hate mode as you like to imagine.
Nobody here is happy with the current form of the EU and if there was a referendum in France we could maybe expect the same kind of outcome because after decades of undemocratic decisions and political correctness people would jump at any occasion to make the “system” pay.
On the other hand there is a kind of consensus that “you don’t have to throw the baby with the bath water” (hope that expression translates well). In spite of strong opposition to the EU form and policies, on the left right and extremes, 75% of the people would vote to remain part of it.
Bottom line, people kind of understand why they voted that way but some may blame the UK for the inertia of the EU (special status on everything, vetoing of anything dear to other countries, systematic blackmailing and opposition to any reform and strong push for the ultra-liberal policies that… the brits voted against yesterday!!!). Well, I guess that’s the insular mentality for you.
So, good riddance, no hard feelings and good luck to you.
“strong push for the ultra-liberal policies thatā¦ the brits voted against yesterday”
Ultraliberal? Europe is ultraliberal now?
Europe is less socialist than France, but that’s all.
Brexit isn’t about “ultraliberal”, unless you count freedom of anyone to enter any country (and get social service money).
Magna Carta, 1215.
Peasants’ Revolt, 1380.
Charles I Beheaded, 1649.
Glorious Revolution & Bill of Rights, 1688.
Reform Act, 1832.
Brexit, 2016.
Eight hundred and one years of progress in liberty.
Hoo-boy, they are already calling for a do-over.
Elites claiming that the plebs didn’t know enough or weren’t smart enough to vote the correct way. The rulers need to strike quickly while economic ill effects outweigh immediately positive ones.
They know that soon Britain will be on the paths to prosperity of Norway and Switzerland, thanks to removing the dead hand of stifling regulation from off British ingenuity and willingness to work and earn.
So thatĀ“s the way it works – the losing part can demand a do-over – until it wins!
The EU has done that twice in the past with votes that didn’t match their expectations (AFAIK) and were openly brazen about it saying they’ll keep repeating the referendums until the voters “get it right”. I doubt that will work this time as the UK controls the referendum now.
Now: “UPDATED: UK petition calling for a Brexit re-vote gains more than 2 million signatures”
The guy was on TV, he said he created the petition as a joke. (!)
I live in Canada but travelled to the UK perhaps 50 times, and have spent considerable time there.
The UK is lovely to visit, but everything* costs about twice what it does in Canada and the USA. Why is that possible, and why is that in any way correct?
[*everything except Cadbury chocolate ā yum!]
I suggest that if the UK breaks away from the strangle-hold of Europe, it will prosper and the cost of everyday goods and services will ultimately fall to levels now enjoyed by North American society.
The cost of living in the UK has become untenable. Brexit is part of the solution.
Regards to all, Allan