Update: Glacier Park’s ‘Gone by 2030’ Web Pages are Still Up; They Are Sticking to Their Guns
by Roger I. Roots
Yesterday, May 5, 2016, I posted and promoted a story indicating that the USGS (U.S. Geological Survey) appears to be removing webpages claiming that all glaciers will have melted away from Glacier National Park by the year 2030–just 14 years from now.
I have since been informed that the USGS has recently relocated their climate-change-oriented sites, and that this relocation occurred recently enough that search engines were not finding them.
My brother Alex Roots notified me that the USGS site contains a blurb indicating the Agency is updating its websites. The government’s repeat photography project (which shows old photos of glaciers–taken at undisclosed calendar dates in past decades–juxtaposed against more recent photos of the glaciers taken in the first or second weeks of September) is still available and is linked to a page indicating the project has become a ‘museum’ type site. See here.
My post from yesterday circulated widely (as I sent it to Anthony Watts of the world’s highest-traffic climate website https://wattsupwiththat.com/. The story ultimately found its way to USGS inboxes.
This morning I received a friendly email from Suzanna C. Soileau, Physical Scientist at USGS-NOROCK in Bozeman, Montana. She assures me that the USGS is not hiding its previous climate change web pages. Soileau alerted me to the following USGS sites which focus on climate change.
Climate Change in Mountain Ecosystem (CCME) program: https://www.usgs.gov/centers/norock/science/climate-change-mountain-ecosystems-ccme
Retreat of Glacier in Glacier NP: https://www.usgs.gov/centers/norock/science/retreat-glaciers-glacier-national-park
Repeat Photography Project: https://www.usgs.gov/centers/norock/science/repeat-photography-project
It appears that catastrophic climate change will continue to be a major focus of GNP’s visitor promotion.
Stay tuned!
(I’m still waiting for someone to take me up on my $5,000 bet that glaciers will still exist at GNP in 2030.) See here.
URL of story (if applicable): http://lysanderspooneruniversity.com/2016/05/update-glacier-parks-gone-by-2030-web-pages-are-still-up-they-are-sticking-to-their-guns/
—————————————-
ORIGINAL STORY
Government is apparently removing its websites claiming Glacier National Park will be glacier free by 2030
by Dr. Roger Roots, founder of Lysander Spooner University.
In the fall of 2015 I offered a bet of $5,000 if the glaciers at Glacier National Park disappear by 2030 (as predicted in all GNP signage, pamphlets, films and publications). See here. As of yet, no one has taken me up on my bet.
The Park’s glaciers were melting rapidly throughout the 1990s, as the catastrophic-manmade-global-warming-by-CO2 movement was riding high. Bills were introduced in Congress for “cap and trade” programs, carbon taxes and other reforms.
The National Park Service, and the U.S. Geological Survey published websites showing photos of the Park’s glaciers taken in prior decades next to more recent photos of the same glaciers. This ‘repeat photography’ showed massive decreases in the size of the GNP glaciers.
(I have often pointed out that the government’s photos from prior decades tended to not specify calendar dates. Because glaciers tend to build up in winter and then melt all summer long, the specificity of calendar dates is quite important.)
On January 8 of this year, I posted a prediction that the government would soon alter its GNP-glaciers-gone-by-2030 claims. See here. I asked, “What is the government going to do as 2030 approaches and it becomes clear that their preposterous claims are untrue?”
“I have no doubt,” I wrote then, “that the government will begin modifying these claims by 2025, if not sooner.” I began saving screenshots of government websites which make the claim that manmade-global-warming will melt the GNP glaciers by 2030.
It turns out I didn’t need to wait very long at all. Today, on May 4, 2016, I started looking for the government’s ‘repeat photography’ sites.
IT APPEARS THEY HAVE DISAPPEARED.
Today when you google “repeat photography” and “Glacier National Park,” you are redirected to general-info USGS sites with pictures of hikers in the mountains.
Fortunately, I have screenshots of the prior government projections.
Perhaps the webmasters at USGS are in the process of updating the ‘repeat photography’ sites.
Or perhaps Lysander Spooner University is already having an impact.
SIDE NOTE:
One can still find remnants of the government’s claims on some of its sites. For example, the USGS published a detailed numerical chart (see here) with data columns showing extensive melting between 1966 and 2005. The chart contains an astounding claim: “This table reflects area measurements analyzed from aerial photographs taken in 1966 and 2005. More recent suitable aerial photography on a parkwide scale has not been acquired to update this table due to seasonal conditions and financial constraints for contracted flights.”
This claim is astounding because research money intended to produce evidence for global warming has been pouring out over the past decade.
“Financial constraints”? Why do I suspect the USGS has chosen not to seek funds for new aerial photography because such photography will show that GNP’s glaciers have GROWN SINCE 2005.
More: http://lysanderspooneruniversity.com/2016/05/we-are-having-an-impact-the-government-has-already-begun-removing-links-to-its-glacier-park-glaciers-disappearing-sites/
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At least they didn’t post phony photos showing “adjusted” glacial extents representing the beginning of the study period.
yet…
Here is an interesting animation with the still future 2030 prediction included
https://www.google.com/search?q=GLACIER+STATUS+%22GLACIER+NATIONAL+PARK%22&lr=&hl=en&as_qdr=all&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiyzP-qsMHMAhVU_mMKHZ4pDCsQsAQINw&biw=1898&bih=1078#imgrc=ZNgQj7OQd6axYM%3A
Looks like glacier national park is turning into a verdant grassland ripe for habitation of small woodland creatures
Wow, that is a great animation. But or course, what it shows is confirmation of the skeptical view point that most/all of the warming we are seeing is just a continuation of the natural warming that started at the end of the LIA.
Don’t go giving them ideas, they’ll be up there spraying the ice to make it look like open water.
Those glaciers actually anticipated the combustion of fossil fuels and began melting over 12,000 years ago.
Naughty glaciers.
They didn’t get the “narrative” memo.
It’s called advance planning and it probably took a major committee process to get to this point of taking action. This should in no way impede their climate scare press release schedule in the agency queue.
Has Winston Smith transferred from NASA GISS to the USGS?
Doubleplusgood reference.
I just re-read “1984”, and its scarily prescient how accurate Orwell got the idea that if you just feed kids propaganda from birth, they won’t ever question that slavery is freedom (see: modern college campuses, but of course it starts in pre-kindergarten).
CaligulaJones, that’s how N. Korea persists.
If global warming “causes” Antarctic ice accumulation, they will have no problem stringing together BS to “explain” glaciers, no matter what happens.
Eric, the alarmist have made Karl Popper a prophet. Quote from Karl Popper; The logic of scientific discovery; Page 20
======================================================
… “it is always possible to find some way of evading falsification, for example by introducing ad hoc an auxiliary hypothesis, or by changing ad hoc a definition. It is even possible without logical inconsistency to adopt the position of simply refusing to acknowledge any falsifying experience whatsoever. Admittedly, scientists do not usually proceed in this way, but logically such procedure is possible.”
========================================================
simply refusing to acknowledge any falsifying experience whatsoever” makes one think of fifty different explanations for the pause, before just erasing it, and explanations for increased Antarctica sea ice where numerous ad-hoc explanations appeared, except for the known to be cooling southern oceans SST .
“
How is “refusing to acknowledge any falsifying experience whatsoever” logical?
It depens on “what the definition of is is”
I’m glad they chose this course of action instead of the napalm option being considered internally.
The Wayback Machine tells the while story: https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://nrmsc.usgs.gov/repeatphoto/
-1 spelling: …whole story
Old site:
New site:
‘The USGS is not hiding its previous climate change web pages’.
Right, but busyly editing their mistakes away. This is valuable tool in communicating effects of greenhouse effect. Blah blah.
My family and I went to GNP in the early 1970s. This was when it was cool to worry about a new ice age. I remember at least one guild telling us that although a few inches of the glacier melted each summer, there will always be glaciers in the national park. I don’t think he said that a new ice age was coming, but he sure wasn’t worried that they would melt soon.
‘cool’
Nice pun.
‘guild’
Nice pun.
Went to the foot of a glacier in the Columbia icefields in Alberta as a kid in 1965. They had markers and photos on display showing the retreat of that glacier since before1900. Rising temps are well documented for over 200 years and nothing to do with CO2.
Google Earth can give you a good idea of the changes since 2005. Go to Iceberg on Google Earth and look at the 2005 historical photos vs. 2014. Zero ice in 2005, lots of ice in 2014. Not good for the propaganda machine.
eh, in a hurry. Iceberg Lake, Glacier National Park.
Thanx Russ – did it and saved images; astounding cherry-picking using 2005 for their ‘The End is Near’.
@Russ in Houston.
You are quite right about Google Earth (GE) when it comes to postings like this one.
Out of curiosity, I started up GE on my computer and went to the GNP. The nice thing about GE is that they have past images of the location your are looking at going back to the 1990s. You can compare the image from then with the most recent one.
GE has past images of the GNP going back to August of 1991 (at least the version on my PC does). The most recent images are from July of 2014. I compared the 1991 images of 3 or 4 areas with the most recent ones from August of 2014. At least to me anyway, all of the glaciated areas looked slightly larger
(if not the same) in the 2014 images than in the ones from 1991.
Indeed Russ, it must be quite embarassing for the climate alarmist propaganda machine when the average lay person like myself can do this and conclude that the USGS claims were bogus.
Google Earth is one of my favorite applications on my PC.
try this:
http://www.flashearth.com/
better resolution, no timeline though
Since when did the retreat of the ice become a bad thing ?
A mere ~14,000 years ago Chicago was buried by a mile of ice.
Personally, I prefer the current climate.
Would Chicago buried under a mile of ice be a bad thing? Would certainly help Slough in England. Sarc off\
A mile of ice over Chicago might fix a lot of problems there.
emsnews, that for certain the homicide rate would drop rater than increase as it has under the present mayor. I guess there is a cost when you use gangs to get yourself elected. To bad that price is being paid by the citizen of Chicago and not the mayor himself.
Yeah, I asked a Park Ranger that very question when she was telling us passengers on a cruise up Glacier Bay that “healthy glaciers” would extend all the way to the Bay’s entrance, as they did back in the mid-1700’s.
Sez I: :”So if that were the case, Alaska would still be under glacier ice and none of us would be here…”
Response: hummina hummina hummina…..
In Canada we call a mile of ice a sign that spring is just around the corner.
Indeed. GnatGeo reported a few years ago that GNP was down to a hundred-some glaciers from 1,100 thousands of years ago, and was continuing to trend down. De-glaciation of GNP has been going on for millennia; attributing it to man made global warming is weapons grade stupid.
Are they not doing what every liar or criminal is doing by trying to secretly evidence of their own agency’s forecasts. Right now, multiple Attorney General’s in this country are suing Exxon and others for “hiding” info on Global Warming. Well, in my view the government should be required to release all information,, including e mails, regarding this decision to remove their own predictions.
Perhaps they thought the warning of diapering glaciers would increase visitors..
I would die to see diapers on glaciers!!! 🙂
You’d need the extra absorbent ones during the summer. Even non – disappearing glaciers do a lot of melting come August.
I didn’t know they had diapers that big.
Diapers are like politicians.
I had to look that one up:
Samuel Clemens had a way with words. 🙂
Depends!
One clue might be this from https://www.usgs.gov/centers/norock/ :
The Wayback pages had a contact person for the repeat photo stuff, have you tried that to ask that the web pages be restored?
It is 1984 forever, comrade.
You’re right, Ric. USGS is rebuilding their site, so most pages have vanished. This seems to be the press release: https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/welcome-new-usgsgov-1
Looks like they let some artists run amok. That page now has text buried inside images, with a text version tacked on the bottom.
“Released: April 27, 2016
Welcome to the New USGS.GOV
Our new user experience makes world-class USGS science, data, information, and products more easily accessible, available, and usable.
Just the tip of the iceberg…
Our transitional site includes the new usgs.gov and more than 180 top-level pages (Mission Areas, Programs, Regions, our three new Science Center websites, Products, Connect, About, etc.). We will migrate more USGS websites into this new experience; check back often to see our progress.
Enhancements include…”
It is true that govt. incompetence knows no bounds, but I am still inclined to call BS. You build a new website and have that new site go live before the old websites come down. Standard practice is to have the old sites have a notification and a redirect to the new. You do not just “disappear” stuff, and certainly not a theme you have been flogging endlessly for decades without explanation.
Acting dishonestly is usually followed up once caught with, ” it was just an honest mistake”! When politicians and bureaucrats are involved it never is.
TontL
In theory you run them in parallel! For practice
http://www.couriermail.com.au/extras/qweekend/fff/features/pdfs/338.pdf
Changing their entire site, when all they needed to do was change 2030 to 2050. That is the Gruberment for you.
Maybe they “accidently” used the same guys who set up Hillary’s server?
USGS site has always been behind the times with regard to keeping data current, well organized and easy to find.
Been going there for over 7 years.
Hopefully they will do a good job upgrading.
The hilarious thing is the bet the poster offerred.
one study ( which is hard to find ) Suggested that many of the glacier would be gone
by 2030, IF, the present rates of loss continued.
The Bet offerred was that “all glaciers and all SNOWFIELDS” had to disappear to win the bet.
too funny.
Steven Mosher, did you miss,
“(as predicted in all GNP signage, pamphlets, films and publications)’
A quick web search…
The Glaciers of Glacier National Park May All Disappear by … but scientists are warning that they’re all likely to disappear by 2030. … Glaciers are very …
inhabitat.com/the-glaciers-of-glacier-national-park-may…
Glacier Park’s ice may disappear by 2030 | State and Regional …☑
BILLINGS — On the eve of Glacier National Park’s 100th birthday, some of its distinctive features — glaciers — are disappearing and may not be around for the park …
helenair.com/news/state-and-regional/glacier-park-s-ic…
The Glaciers of Glacier National Park May All Disappear by …☑
Scientists estimate that all the ice in Glacier National Park will have melted by 2030. 2030
inhabitat.com/the-glaciers-of-glacier-national-park-may…
I recommend you should be ore skeptical of yourself.
I was up to Grinnell Glacier last summer on a hot (almost 90F) day and even that was not enough to melt the ice floating in the lake. From where I saw stood, it looked like there was not that much ice left, but I suspect that there is more flowing down the mountain to this point. https://flic.kr/p/xgLtNZ
I have never been to GNP but those photos you linked to are stunning. I felt as if I was visiting the park. The glacier fall in action must have been quite a treat to photograph. I took note of the U-shaped valley at the lower elevation of the park filled with mature pine trees. It must have contained quite a glacier about 22,000 YBP.
“… it is always possible to find some way of evading falsification, for example by introducing ad hoc an auxiliary hypothesis, or by changing ad hoc a definition. It is even possible without logical inconsistency to adopt the position of simply refusing to acknowledge any falsifying experience whatsoever. Admittedly, scientists do not usually proceed in this way, but logically such procedure is possible»
– Karl Popper
Science or Fiction: “Silence is power.”
Dave Fair
Be nice to see the change in glacier sizes before 1950. I was using the wayback machine and it seems they have pictures from lots of glaciers, but always just the starting picture in the 1900’s and the ending picture around 2008. Is this intentional or do they just have 2 pictures of every glacier? Seems impossible that they have only 2 pictures. Seems pretty clear they are intentionally being misleading.
Lysander Spooner University, it’s not very big. On the other hand, I support its goals. It deserves to get bigger.
https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/70027012
(my bold)
Here we go!
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/may/4/inhofe-slaps-ags-misuse-power-probe-climate-change/
Just what the doctor ordered.
And this has what to do with Glacier National Park?
https://pubs.er.usgs.gov/publication/70025905
(my bold)
Last one …
http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1657/1523-0430(2006)38%5B399:HGACFA%5D2.0.CO%3B2
(my bold)
I wonder if the glaciers are screaming. Someone should ask Mark Serreze.
On the wall of the main Park office at GNP there is a map [official USGS map] that details the retreat of the main glaciers in the going back to the 1790s with intermediate data through to the 20th century.
What is remarkable about this, is that the map clearly shows that the largest part of glacier loss occurred between 1800 and the 1920s when the Industrial Revolution was just getting going in earnest.
I noticed this when I visited GNP a few years ago and pointed it out to GNP staff, and asked how that information fitted in with the CAGW trope. Firstly, none of the staff was actually aware of what the map showed, and were completely stumped by my question – one of them actually telling me that was proof of man made global warming…..
The National Park Service has a Climate Change Response Program to ensure a consensus response. There can be no climate deniers employed by the Interior Department.
The NPS website is still pushing the Cook 97% paper and attributing it to the IPCC:
https://www.nps.gov/articles/climatequestion02.htm
I hope you took a picture of the map.
Reblogged this on Climatism and commented:
“Why do I suspect the USGS has chosen not to seek funds for new aerial photography because such photography will show that GNP’s GLACIERS HAVE GROWN SINCE 2005.” !!
A great example of deliberate and organised Government funded man-made global warming alarmism that appears rife within Government funded institutions.
Another example which proves – unfortunately and sadly – that Government agencies appear the last places to seek the truth on global warming, climate change, global weirding or whatever they choose to call it on any particular day!
Of course they are, global warming and climate change are the fantasies of the left. If you believe that either is happening and the earth is heating up then you haven’t been outside in quite a few years.
One thing you CAN be certain of in this age of frenzied AGW – climate catastrophe claims with dates specified will disappear one hell of a lot faster than any glacier! 🙂