Report: Bin Laden Planned to Destabilise America using the Climate Issue

 United Airlines Flight 175 crashes into the south tower of the World Trade Center complex in New York City during the September 11 attacks, author TheMachineStops (Robert J. Fisch), source Wikimedia

United Airlines Flight 175 crashes into the south tower of the World Trade Center complex in New York City during the September 11 attacks, author TheMachineStops (Robert J. Fisch), source Wikimedia

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

Reuters reports that the terrorist Osama Bin Laden intended to use the climate issue to spread chaos in the United States, by calling for people concerned about greenhouse gasses to rise up and overthrow the government.

According to Reuters;

Osama bin Laden wrote a letter calling on the American people to help President Barack Obama fight “catastrophic” climate change and “save humanity”, in the latest evidence of his worries about environmental issues, newly released documents show

The letter was among materials that were seized in the May 2, 2011, U.S. raid on bin Laden’s hideout in Pakistan that killed the al Qaeda chief and which were released on Tuesday by the Obama administration.

The undated, unsigned letter “to the American people,” which U.S. intelligence officials attributed to bin Laden, appeared to have been written shortly after Obama began his first term in 2009, based on the letter’s references to events.

Bin Laden’s preoccupation with climate change also emerged as a theme in the first tranche of documents from the raid that was declassified in May 2015, as well as in an audio recording released via the al Jazeera network in January 2010.

Read more: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-binladen-climatechange-idUSKCN0W35MS

Thankfully Bin Laden was assassinated on the orders of President Obama, before he could fully implement his plan. But this news confirms a previous report on WUWT, about Bin Laden’s effort to invite climate extremists to join his anti-Western Jihad.

The danger didn’t end with Bin Laden’s death. The climate issue still seems to resonate strongly in some hardline Islamic communities; a false narrative of impending destruction brought on by Western greed and consumerism, unsurprisingly finds eager acceptance, amongst people who already hate the liberty and wealth of the West.

Some leaders in the Arabic world have even attempted to use the climate issue to deflect blame for their own maladministration, a trend which is already well established in the West. If this political ruse gains wider acceptance, it will further fan the flames of hatred.

Future historians may come to cite the early 21st century climate hysteria as a prime example of unintended consequences. The Western climate fad, which for a time was a useful political prop, is in danger of mutating into a tool to incite the desperate into acts of hatred and mass murder. Who amongst the foot soldiers will dispute the veracity of the coming climate Jihad? The architects of hatred have access to plenty of video footage, of Western politicians accepting complicity for a problem which doesn’t exist, then breaking all their promises, of action to curb CO2 emissions.

Update: Link to the full text of Osama Bin Laden’s letter – http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2729539-To-the-American-People.html

130 thoughts on “Report: Bin Laden Planned to Destabilise America using the Climate Issue

  1. Little wonder Reuters doesn’t invite reader replies. Tell me this was an early April fool’s joke. Surely they jest.

      • Unbelievable, yes. Not even the FBI linked Osama Ben Laden to the twin towers attack, yet that is apparently the public perception in America. Eric Worrall chooses a photo of that event to illustrate this article. Don’t let the facts spoil a good story, as they say.

        Thankfully Bin Laden was assassinated on the orders of President Obama, before he could fully implement his plan.

        Well at least we are agreed that he was assassinated then. The official explanation that an elite team of navy Seals can’t arrest an old diabetic man with a hunting rifle when they attack him in the middle of the night is frankly “unbelievable”.

        The real reason that Obama authorised his assassination was because GW was dumb enough to define his capture as the reason for invading Afghanistan which made capturing or killing him the only way to pull out of there without losing face. One man died to save continuing a 10 year old war that was going nowhere.

        As for the “thankfully… before he implement his plan”. Apparently this dates back to an unsigned, undated note, allegedly written in 2009. Ben Laden obviously did give it much hope of getting anywhere. No idea why Eric Worrall does.

        The reason Clinton did not go after BL was because no one could produce any evidence he was involved in 9/11. He was wanted for links to an attack on a US warship but would hardly justify invading anther country. Obama did so to avoid continuing loss of American lives.

      • From the Reuters Article;

        … Bin Laden’s preoccupation with climate change also emerged as a theme in the first tranche of documents from the raid that was declassified in May 2015 …

        Its difficult to know whether Osama Bin Laden believed in the dangers of climate change, or whether he though it was a useful weakness which he could potentially exploit. Either way, the suggestion of the Reuters article is that he was giving it serious interest.

      • Oh well, I suppose that means we can blame him for the twin towers as well then. Glad we got that one cleared up.

      • The reason Clinton did not go after BL was because no one could produce any evidence he was involved in 9/11. He was wanted for links to an attack on a US warship but would hardly justify invading anther country. Obama did so to avoid continuing loss of American lives.

        ??

      • Mike, perhaps some information might be useful. Clinton didn’t go after Osama bin Laden for 9/11 because, if I recall correctly, it was after he was president. More to the point: Khaleid Sheik Mohammed was the mastermind behind 9/11. He was apprehended by US agents in Pakistan in 2003. During his interrogation he admitted bringing the idea to Osama bin Laden, who approved it, and formally joining al Qaeda in 1997 or 98.

      • Mike, here’s a hint… If you want to convince folks of your point of view, it really helps if you have your facts straight. Citing Clinton as not going after bin Laden after the 9/11 attack is not only chronologically wrong, it’s laughably wrong given how definitive you are with your assertions.

      • RCase

        Citing Clinton as not going after bin Laden after the 9/11 attack is not only chronologically wrong, it’s laughably wrong given how definitive you are with your assertions.

        Bin Laden DID set off bombs below the WTC garage while Clinton was President. Obviously, though these truck bombs did not bring down the buildings themselves, they DID kill and wound Americans in the World Trade Center Towers many years before climatic 9-11-2001 air attacks during the Bush presidency.

      • And the fact that the Bush family and bin Ladens are very good friends….into the memory hole, all that.

      • Tom, KSM was behind the first attack on the twin towers that resulted in a truck bomb blowing up in the parking garage beneath the towers.

      • ems, A couple of Bush’s are familiar with one or two of Osama bin Laden’s cousins, and this proves what? That President Bush was complicit in the 9/11 attack?

      • 1. Why were the very suspicious large financial transactions ahead of 911 not traced.
        2. Why did tower 7 come down?

        The destruction of tower 7, which was not hit by any planes, and the resultant loss of financial data makes it look like there is more to this matter than the official explanation.

      • Anyone interested in backgrounding themselves and the facts surrounding 9/11, Dr. David Ray Griffin is the world’s foremost investigative writer. And the world owes him a great debt. Here’s two of his books, and an online article that gives you an accurate overview. Heavily footnoted (631 footnotes on the article below, for example) Griffin invites you to check his facts, compare them with the “official story”, and decide for yourself. 9/11 a basic 21st century “terrorist” lie on which subsequent lies/hoaxes have been built. Until this excised, nothing will change.

        The New Pearl Harbor Revisited, Dr. David Ray Griffins Latest Book Updating the Integrated Events Surrounding 9/11
        http://www.interlinkbooks.com/product_info.php?products_id=1874&osCsid=57c8951b2301352e298d8112afb6fb0d

        9-11 Contradictions: An Open letter To Congress and the Press (Book) https://davidraygriffin.com/books/911-contradictions-an-open-letter-to-congress-and-the-press/

        Why The Official Explanation of the Destruction of the Twin Towers Cannot Be True, According to Dr. David Ray Griffin (Article) http://911review.com/articles/griffin/nyc1.html

        David Ray Griffin’s Other Books https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=books+by+Dr%2C+David+Ray+Griffin

        bin Laden had nothing to do with 9/11.

      • Wrusssr
        at 8:19 am
        “Anyone interested in backgrounding themselves and the facts surrounding 9/11, Dr. David Ray Griffin is the world’s foremost investigative writer.”

        My guess, sir, is that you’re providing links rather than paraphrasing David Ray Griffin’s, “the world’s foremost investigative writer(‘s)” conclusions because you’re understandably embarrassed to directly take credit for such obscene nonsense.

        And yes, I do think ‘obscene’ is a correct classification for the theory that George W. Bush allowed the 9/11 attacks to occur so he could have a pretext for war with Iraq.

        Perhaps you, and Griffin, might explain how Bush kept this fantasy plan secret from George Tenet who Bill Clinton appointed Director of the CIA in 1996 (4 years before Bush even ran for election), and who Bush kept as Director of the CIA until July, 2004. Or, let us consider how the Bush team kept this devious plan secret from the Director of the FBI, Louis Freeh; appointed by Clinton in 1993 and retained by Bush until June 2001. Undoubtedly those rascals were also able to keep this diabolical plan secret from Robert Mueller; appointed Director of the FBI by Bush in September 2001, and retained by Obama until 2013.

        I know; maybe Clinton, Al Gore, Dick Cheney, Barack Obama, and Joe Biden were all privy to this plan, eh?

      • “..And the fact that the Bush family and bin Ladens are very good friends….into the memory hole, all that…”

        Bin Laden’s family disowned him. How is this news to you?

      • The towers didn’t fall, they disintegrated, straight down in the path of greatest resistance at near free-fall speed . . (which is physically impossible, kids, without a great deal of “help”)

        Building Seven’s (also vertical/symmetrical and at near free-fall speed) demise was “predicted” well before it actually “fell” by British broadcasters in an obvious blunder, with the still standing building visible in the background as the coming ruination was being “reported” . .

        Of the many evidences of orchestrated deception on that day which I have examined, the following is perhaps the clearest and easiest to wrap one’s head around. It has to do with the Pentagon aspect, and relies heavily on eyewitness testimony. I suggest folks watch it and consider carefully what they see and hear.

        National Security Alert – 9/11 Pentagon Event

        http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/videos/national-security-alert

    • Funny how, if the US flies acorss half the world, technically invades a friendly country, and kill a known terrorist, it is a great thing and a a blow for freedom, yet when the British Army kill a bunch of Provo IRA terrorists engaged in the act of attacking a police station in Loghgall Northern Ireland ( just one example), intent on killing some police officers, the world, including the USA, decries this “shoot to kill” policy.

      I do hope our US friends reflect on just how much misery, death and destruction the money flowing from the USA to the provisional IRA caused to my wee small country.

      • Funny how the IRA funding dried up once the US experienced the Oklahoma bomb and got a taste of what it was like.

      • To be fair, there a many Irish people & people of Irish descent in America, couple that with only half the story being told to them, plus propaganda from the IRA, it’s easy to see how the money was raised, especially if theose donating were told the money was going to help poor families put upon by the British. It’s the same way I expect a lot of money is raised to support Islamic terrorism, the money is going to help those put upon souls by evil Western Capitalists!

      • Funding for the IRA came from North America in the late 1960s and on.

        Going back to the time that the British pilled out of southern Ireland (c.1920) which resulted in no law enforcement except by the IRA until a new Irish government was established.

        The Irish Troubles, a sad situation.

  2. Gullible.

    Keep the population fed, fat, stupid, ignorant, gullible, addicted to p0rn, drugs, and self indulgence. Fund it all by taxing them. Tell them how to vote, what to think.

    They will do as they are trained to do.

    BinLaden was exactly right.

  3. The undated, unsigned letter “to the American people,” which U.S. intelligence officials attributed to bin Laden, appeared to have been written …

    Careful! This could also be a forgery or smear campaign from the government to take greens under protection and intensify their goal.
    Dejavue… Hitler’s diaries.

    • Bin Laden is a ‘franchise’ created and maintained by the CIA inspired by the character Emmanuel Goldstein in Orwell’s novel 1984. Some time soon after 9/11 — either immediately before or after he (quite possibly) died from long term kidney complications — a task force met at Langley to discuss Bin Laden’s ‘future’. Someone rightfully commented, “But we created Bin Laden and Al Qaeda!” referring to the CIA’s nurturing of the Muhajadeen to resist Soviet occupation of Afghanistan (see Curtis’ Shadows in the Cave… and someone else remarks, “Why stop now?” What followed were years of peak franchise where the elusive Bin Laden emitted letters, audio tapes and occasional videos that have the same bizarre quality as UFO reports, as if there is a fuzz-field surrounding him that resisted attempts to capture him in high fidelity video, audio or photograph. In 2011 it is also likely they decided that the Carmen Sandiego phase of the operation was embarrassing and had run its course, and enough time had passed, and the evil recluse had enough time in retirement that they could continue post-mortem indefinitely, to occasionally “reveal” newly surfaced writing and recordings. Yes the Navy SEALs did move in, but they may have also been deceived.

      I know some people have a visceral reaction to conspiracy theories but even they should experience a private shudder upon recollection of the bizarre manner of the DNA match in which a confident statement of a match is meant (in the public eye) to take the place of a reproducible match. A true test of 21st century gullibility or deference to authority, the ‘new normal’. . Even requests for samples by the family were refused.

      An equal, and just as credible theory is that Bin Laden and his kidneys were alive somehow,, kept under house arrest by (our friends) the Pakistani ISI since 2006 and promised indefinite exile if he kept silent and let the CIA-produced franchise run its course. And the ‘retirement’ in 2011 was as much of a shock to him as anyone else.

      So with a little dose of skepticism does it seem likely that the “new documents revealed” phase of the franchise would be used to push a little AGW through this strange channel? And we would uncover an evil Emmanuel Goldstein plot to use AGW as a tactic to foster civil war in the USA? Hitler’s Diaries seems a little high brow. It is more comic-book similar to Charlie Manson’s idea to use his murders to trigger a race war.

      • Bin Laden was told by the CIA to make trouble for the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. He was a CIA agent. AHEM.

      • Having similar goals in one war, makes one a pawn of the same organization 20 years later.
        Sheesh, the depths some people will go to find reasons to believe what they want to believe.

      • To make a cross administration conspiracy theory at all believable, one must at least posit a motive for it–across administrations. –AGF

      • “..Bin Laden was told by the CIA to make trouble for the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. He was a CIA agent. AHEM…”

        We also supported Saddam at one time. So? We were just destined to remain BFFs?

      • The only problem in your “likely” theory is that a gov’t that is trying to push agw is not likely to put that message in the mouth of a hated villain.

  4. “…spread chaos in the United States, by calling for people concerned about greenhouse gasses to rise up and overthrow the government.”
    ==========================================================
    But isn’t that basically what they did when they elected Obama?

    • “…spread chaos in the United States, by calling for people concerned about greenhouse gasses to rise up and overthrow the government.”

      Bin Laden doesn’t have a clue about the American character. Americans overthrow their government through the ballot box. This year will be a good example of that.

  5. Western youths who hate our community have three options (they think):
    – 1) Become ‘green’, loyal citizens
    – 2) Convert and fight Western society
    – 3) Turn Amish…

    • Hello Nimrod,

      1 Ok

      2. OK. Unfortunately True as we in Australia can verify.

      3. Not sure The Amish is the best analogy as I thought you actually had to live the Amish lifestyle to actually be Amish as distinct from our Green Champions and their capitalist and fossil fuel supplied privileged lifestyle.

  6. I would not lend credibility to any report on Bin Laden coming from US government.
    Does not ring true.

    • Good point, especially since the most recent “Ben Laden” videos clearly were not even him !

      One can only speculate who made them and what their motivations were.

      • Yes Mike, I have no doubt the guys who raided the Pakistanian house really believed they killed Bin Laden. But after dna analysis onboard a ship, the military quickly dumped the body in the ocean. To me that looks a lot like getting rid of evidence of a huge failure.

      • Much more likely that was a definitive avoidance of the question of what to do with the body. Autopsy, injuries would probably not accord with the idea that was killed while “resisting” an illegal kidnapping and would be the cause of protracted arguments about what really happened. Photos would not be pretty.

        Also, who would get the body, where would he be buried, would it become a kind of shrine for jihadi’s. I don’t think they would have had much trouble seeing burial at sea as very good idea.

    • most of the rest of the world gives little credence to any report on anything coming from usa..its taken a while but people are waking up.
      finance and jobs figures as fictional as chinas etc etc
      as for 911 its been a series of entertaining usgov fairy tales..each one outdoing the prior for ridiculous
      and the start point wasnt some madman in a teatowel

  7. If there was ever really nothing to complain about, then people would complain about that.
    Unfortunately it looks as though there is a significant glitch in human psychology, such that no matter what treasures we heap upon ourselves (and upon others in the process), few, if any, are capable of simply living joyfully and appreciating what progress we have made and what wonders we have created.
    It must be wrong. It must. It must.
    Capitalism, industrial production, the availability of cheap goods and transportation and electrical energy for all. To the mind of the perennially bothered and envious, it simply must have a downside. There just must be an excuse for the misery and loathing. Some terrible unforeseen consequence, perhaps.
    Something awful that will finally happen to the smiling children of the smiling rich, with their lives of seemingly untrammeled grace.
    So, we find some belief system or other, which supports the conclusion that it’ll all end in tears unless we mend our ways.
    Precisely the same theme is recurrent throughout known history.
    And we can be assured that if anyone ever pointed out that the theme is recurrent then they would be recurrently told, “yes, but this time, it’s different.”
    Told this by the self-style prognosticators and wise-men and priests and wandering beady eyed mendicant fruit-loops of their particular age.
    The problem being, that with the networking of knowledge and the centralization of power, this is an age in which a specific form of fruit-loopery can become a global panic or serve global terror.
    Hence, whilst making up stories with which to terrorize ourselves, and our children, we have crafted narratives that feed into the hatred felt for us by our enemies.
    It is natural for our enemies to hate or resent us. For what else is the purpose of having enemies.
    And so, whilst trying to intentionally destroy the fruits of centuries of western scientific and technological progress we have granted our enemies an opportunity to join with us in seeking our own destruction.
    Nothing short of the total demolition of the modern capitalist democratic technologically abundant world will keep the miserable haters on all sides happy.
    It may just be, the end of the world as we know it.
    All that we in Europe should now choose, is – which idiotic future would we prefer? The one planned for us by Bin Laden et al. Or the alternative vision as planned by Christiana Figueres and comrades.
    It’s a tough choice.
    We should ideally decide soon, because it would be pointless to erect vast arrays of off-shore wind turbines which are unlikely to be operated and maintained by our future islamic overlords. :)

  8. Another thing we can lay at Bin Laden’s door is the present Global Financial Crisis.
    The Dot Com bust was never allowed to run its full course. Unlike earlier recessions, the necessary economic corrections never happened. There was no way that Bin Laden’s attacks could be seen as triggering an economic slowdown so the market was flooded with cheap money in the early years of this century.
    We all know how well that’s working out.

  9. Bin Laden Al-Qaeda ISIS all are CIA operations to take freedom away. Remember the Patriot Act.

    We The People are fighting the wrong enemy.

  10. I wonder how asking the American people to help the President gets interpreted as trying to overthrow the government…

    • From the Reuters article;

      … He called on Americans to launch “a great revolution for freedom” to liberate the U.S. president from those influences. …

      Removing opposition elements, so President Obama would rule unopposed, qualifies in my view as “overthrowing the US government” – though I admit its open to interpretation. “a great revolution for freedom” might have meant a vigorous telephone campaign, but somehow I doubt it.

      • @Eric Worrall


        From the Reuters article;
        … He called on Americans to launch “a great revolution for freedom” to liberate the U.S. president from those influences. …
        Removing opposition elements, so President Obama would rule unopposed..

        Eric – you haven’t read the letter! Why not?

        If you did, you would find that the letter writer claims that Obama and the US Government is in thrall to ‘Big Business’, who are polluting the world and endangering civilisation. He calls for the American people to reject this influence, and establish anti-pollution laws to save the world.

        This is standard enviro-speak, which you can hear Greenpeace, Oxfam and all the other activist groups spewing out. Practically EVERY warmist believes something of the kind, and writes about it incessantly. WHY, for God’s sake, is this perfectly banal cliche morphed into a threat to the US?

      • http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2729539-To-the-American-People.html

        The course of the policies of the present administration in several areas clearly reveals that whoever enters the White House, even with good intentions to safeguard the peoples’ interest, is no more than a train operator. His only task is to keep the train on the tracks that are laid down by the lobbyists in New York and Washington to serve their interests first, even if it is counter to your security and economy. Any president who tries to move the train fromthe lobbyist’s tracks to a track for the American people’s interests will confront very strong opposition and pressures fromthe lobbyists. Your president described the decision by the court in favor of corporations to intervene in the political arena as a victory, but it is not [a victory] for the American people except for the big corporations. There is no doubt about it that it is a right, and it is also a right for the administration to support the oppressive Israelis for the continued occupation of our land and the killing of our brothers, marking a victory for the Jewish lobby. The president was not able to defend you against the security and economic loss. The way for change and freeing yourselves fromthe pressure of lobbyists is not through the Republican or the Democratic parties, but through undertaking a great revolution for freedom: not to free Iraq from Saddam Hussein but to free the White House and to free Barack Husayn so he can implement the change you seek. It does not only include improvement of your economic situation and ensure your security, but more importantly, helps himin making a rational decision to save humanity fromthe harmful [greenhouse] gases that threaten its destiny.

        For the American youth to succeed in this change, they need to relive the history of their ancestors and the conditions in their country more than two centuries ago. They need to understand the similarities during that era and their present situation, especially in their fundamental conditions. The British Parliament sided with corporations, then against the interests of the citizens. You have noticed the Congress’s stand with corporations against the peoples’ interests when they refused to legislate against interference in the elections by corporations.

        In conclusion: Be assured that we do not fight for mere killing but to stop the killing of our people. It is a sin to kill a person without proper, justifiable cause, but terminating his killer is a right. You should be aware that justice is the strongest army and security offers the best livelihood; you lost it by your own making when you supported the Israelis in occupying our land and killing our brothers in Palestine. The road to safety starts with the stopping of aggression. Page 4 Palestine shall not be seen captive for we will try to break its shackles.

        The United States shall pay for its arrogance with the blood of Christians and their funds. Peace be upon those who follow the righteous track.

      • Eric Worrall,

        That screed sounds reasonable, no? But the context makes it unreasonable. The green areas in the map below are Islamic countries. The red is Israel. That red dot bothers Muslims so much, they simply cannot stand it…

        (And no, I’m not jewish)

  11. Well, the twin towers attacks did result in the grounding of most* US aircraft for a day.
    So, that was a notable cut in carbon emissions. And a rare chance to look at the effects of increase atmospheric reflectivity caused by all those nasty contrails (or chemtrails, as idiots prefer to call them.)
    So, whilst Al Gore makes more contrails, Bin Laden and Bush conspired to create a temporary reduction.
    Having said all that, this reduction was more than offset by the following war in Afghanistan.
    And after all that, there is still no possibility of constructing that gas pipeline.
    So, all a total waste of time, carbon and blood.
    *most planes, with the notable exception of the plane that ferried away the VIP Saudi relatives of Bin Laden.

    No matter which explanation or narrative a person chooses to believe, it must be accepted that the world is completely bonkers. :)

    • Construction of the Turkmenistan–Afghanistan–Pakistan–India Pipeline (TAPI) began on Dec 13 2015 bankrolled by the Turkmen gas company. Whether it will ever be completed is open to question given the security situation in Afghanistan.

      • Yes, well good luck to them.
        Because they are going to need plenty of it!!!
        But, they’ve got a better chance of success than Enron ever had.
        Hopefully the Turkmen Gas company won’t set about making enemies of longstanding tribal factions or the Taliban.
        Security is everything. Since blowing a pipeline up is much cheaper than guarding it or repairing it.
        And since only non-official non-government allied groups have access to the lucrative opium trade.
        Where Afghanistan is headed in the next twenty years is anybody’s guess.
        Although, I would guess – down the toilet!!!

      • Thanks for this list.
        I’d like to say, “comprehensive list”, but we can assume that there are “unknown unknowns” which will remain unknown forever.
        Plus we are faced with the hurdle that both the CIA and KGB are in the business of muddling everything up on purpose.
        Whilst this list looks pretty terrible, it all pales into triviality when compared with the excesses of the German, Soviet and Japanese so-called “scientific experiments”.
        Such as the horrendous shit described in this link:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_731

  12. I must admit that when I read this excellent blog, if some of the political opinions are anything to go by, there is a fair amount of far right madness in these pages.
    Examples :
    – More proof that obama-the-foreign-usurper did not kill osama.
    – Bin Laden Al-Qaeda ISIS all are CIA operations to take freedom away. Remember the Patriot Act.
    We The People are fighting the wrong enemy.
    – Removing opposition elements, so President Obama would rule unopposed, qualifies in my view as “overthrowing the US government”

    This is three patently weird opinions from a short thread of only twelve comments at the time of posting.
    While you have these sort of opinions on the site it is really hard to defend sceptical opinion from the charge of conspiracy theory and right wing bigotry.

    • The difference between this blog and many warmunists sites, is this site permits a wide range of views and positions.
      Once you start silencing other people for differing opinions, you loose the right to complain when someone silences you.

      • I don’t think these extreme opinions should be banned or censored, what I am saying is that having a vocal subgroup of posters with odd beliefs and strange ideation does not do sceptics any favours. The way to show sceptic opinions are based in the real world and real science is to challenge with good evidence anyone who believes in these daft ideas. Although I do acknowledge that it will not change their beliefs, because any evidence you can supply from the real world does not apply down the rabbit hole, but it does reflect well on the sceptic opinion as a whole. I really like Anthony’s firm response on the nonsense of chemtrails as an example of how to respond.

      • And yet, you come to WUWT and complain about how our host allows these articles to be posted?

      • I have not complained about anything Patrick MJD, I have merely commented on the bonkers crew who believe Obama is a foreigner, that the planes did not bring down the WTC, that Chemtrails are real and Father Christmas controls the climate ( actually the last one is in jest) The fact that you see some sort of complaint against the site in my comment speaks volumes.

      • Osama Bin Laden was recruited, trained and financed by the CIA to disrupt the Soviets in Afghanistan as part of their ‘Regime Change’ operation there (which had begun some years before). After the Soviets pulled out of Afghanistan he was cut loose by the CIA which then was subject to the Law of Unintended Consequences (although the CIA should’ve realised there would be SOME consequences to letting gangs of heavily armed men loose in a power vacuum!). What surprises me more is that there haven’t been more Bin Laden’s around the world, given the CIA and US State Dept’s fondness for ‘Regime Change’ and extreme short-sightedness as to any consequences of their own actions!

      • On Bin Ladin and the CIA–it was more a matter of the CIA getting rather too cute and subcontracting with the Pakistanis and Saudis to fight the Soviets. Bin Ladin was associated with Pakistani agencies, not directly the CIA or the Saudis.

      • BS Bin Laden was a multimillionaire with strong beliefs he financed his own war against the Soviets. He was anti-American even back then.

    • It never ceases to amaze me how leftists go on and on about wacky right wing opinions, yet they ignore the nut cases on their own side.
      How about the guy who keeps claiming that socialism promotes freedom?

      • PS: How about the left wing nut job who keeps trying to claim that the Bush’s and Bin Laden were in cahoots?

    • How many Navy Seals from that particular ‘raid’ are still alive Gareth?

      Anyone? This is not a trick question from an old English hippy btw. I would like to know.

  13. I never did get the time to verify various elements of conspiracy theory that float around the British ‘truth movement’ – an assortment of people that are sceptical of climate change (as well as the moon landings!), but I guess you guys over the water have debunked most of them by exhaustive inquiry and maybe the government reports that I also did not have time to read – for example, that the FBI warned about the attack in advance; that the deputy director was found dead in the rubble (but unmarked) along with conveniently unburned passports of the perpetrators; that the mastermind was not Osama BL but Mohammed Atta, a man on a CIA payroll in Pakistan, also observed the week before in Washington; that the pilots trained on Cesnas (unsuccessfully) and were housed in CIA-funded flats in Florida; that the entire US air defence system was ‘stood down’ on the fateful day (by coincidence); that no bodies were found in the ‘plane’ that hit the Pentagon (and no videos showing a plane – only small remnant engines were found not attributable to a jetliner)…..and so on, including the ‘third building’ reported at first to be demolished as a risk after a small fire (later retracted), and held to be a repository of FBI data….etc. etc. Of course, none of these things could be true and then covered up! That is unimaginable.

    And one point – Osama Bin Laden is unlikely to have hated American wealth as such – admittedly, he left a very wealthy family in Saudi to live in a cave, but he stated quite clearly his reasons for jihad – American bases on Saudi soil propping up a Medieval monarchy. Guys like him do have a hatred of gambling, pornography, trafficking, drugs, money laundering and general banking corruption and inexplicably associate that with the West and its freedoms.

    Don’t get me wrong, fellahs, I am no apologist for Jihad. As with climate change policy, I believe in open democratic debate, legal, persistent and concerted activism and not the AK47.

  14. The admittedly right wing commentary on Bil Ladin early on was noting just how much he came across like the US left in his criticisms of US society. Flaky and hostile is as flaky and hostile does. Bin Ladin considering how to use the Greens as a weapon against the West seems constent with what he put out on Al Jazeera.

  15. “Right wing madness” in these days is usually an oxymoron, Gareth – things so described usually look to an outsider like me (German citizen with neither family nor professional connections to the USA) like perfectly reasonable, while the “madness” is just as usually dished up bythe so-called “liberal” (i.e. left) wing. For instance, I was perfectly surprised that seemingly intelligent people here deny that Osama and the Twin Towers attack are intimately connected. This was common knowledge already on the day of the attack (I learned of Osama’s existence from TV newsreaders on that very day) and the obvious reason for the subsequent persecution of Osama. Disconnecting the two is yet another attempt to detach the poor persecuted Muslims from the atrocities they commit, nothing but Orwellian double-tongue.

    And yes, silencing the opposition would qualify as overthrowing ANY democratic government (though I am not so sure whether the US way of doing things as per their own Constitution actually qualifies as “democratic”, and if it does, whether that’s a good thing or _should_ be overthrown ASAP, the Constitution I mean that legitimates God, Religion, multi-culturalism and certain other delusions and mental illnesses as part of the “nation” it defines, thereby opening the doors for all kinds of weirdos having a say in ruling the country! This is a problem we have in Germany just as well – the one thing our Grundgesetz fails to do, which causes 90% of the political and social problems we currently have, is to establish Human Rights within the German boundaries exclusively for law-abiding German citizens, and those that hold official Visa received after thoroughly checking their ability to contribute positively to the wealth and well-being of our country; just as your Constitution might be much improved by such a clause regarding law-abiding US citizens being the only people that are granted rights within USA territory…)

    • Chris Z—The 14th Amendment, one of three attempting to settle out our civil war, recognizes rights to resident foreigners–all “persons”, not just citizens.

    • I learned of Osama’s existence from TV newsreaders on that very day

      Just like people learned about Marinus van der Lubbe in 1933. Was that proof of guilt?

  16. As any wealthy, developing worlder would do, Osama bin Laden took his cues from our own blame-America-first crowd. So, dammit, if the U.S. didn’t harm and impoverish an otherwise idyllic developing world through exploitation than, of course, of course, the US would harm them through AGW.

    Indeed, AGW was one of many of bin Laden’s criticisms of the U.S. All hail to the brave team who took this man down with a shot right to the eye: Incredibly good marksmanship.

  17. My only comment: I sure hope the public understand by now that 2 planes can’t completely demolish 3 buildings to nothing but rubble.

    • How it was done has been adequately explained over and over again.
      That some refuse to believe the truth is their problem,not ours.

      • Wow is all I can say. Is there a building engineer in the house that would like to explain how paper and desks on fire (the jet fuel burned within seconds) in two buildings made to withstand fire, earthquakes, and flying objects hitting them can take out not 2, but 3 buildings and free fall speed?

      • As always, that’s been explained.
        First off when the jets hit the building, they completely stripped out all of the fire proofing material.
        Second, the heat of the fire was sufficient to soften the steel beams to the point where they collapsed. Especially since 20% or so of them had been taken out in the initial collision.
        As I pointed out earlier, the 3rd building was taken out by one of the other two towers when it collapsed.

      • “Is there a building engineer in the house that would like to explain how paper and desks on fire (the jet fuel burned within seconds) in two buildings made to withstand fire, earthquakes, and flying objects hitting them can take out not 2, but 3 buildings.”

        I will make a few comments toward your request. Although no longer registered, I was a PE in the field of structural engineering.

        First consider the design of the towers. They were primarily steel exoskeletons and a central steel core with fairly lightweight steel joists spanning between those structures, attached via bolted connections. Flooring was sheet metal pans covered with lightweight concrete. Fire protection for the steel was mostly sheet rock and lightweight sprayed-on material. A design emphasis was to reduce structural weight in order to allow for tall towers with maximum utility at reasonable cost.

        Now lets look at the moment of impact. Each tower was hit by a Boeing 767 variant weighing somewhere around 250,000 pounds at impact, of which over 60,000 pounds was jet fuel, traveling between 400-550 mph or maybe 600 feet per second on impact. By comparison a WWII B-17 bomber carried a load of only 4,500-8,000 pounds of bombs.

        The towers were 200 feet wide, so if the exoskeleton were to retain any part of the aircraft, it would have to decelerate at approximately 30 Gs, but the core was only 35-60 feet from the exoskeleton so many pieces may have stopped more quickly while others passed through the entire structure. In any case, the localized damage was likely catastrophic.

        Lets guesstimate some forces. 250k pounds times 30 G is 7.5 million pounds of force. Because the impact point was up a distance about 4 times the breadth of the tower base, the additional compression force on the opposite face was about 30 million pounds at ground level. But the building survived this impact with no obvious distress from the outside, other than at the impact point. (I observed the second impact as it happened from a TV on my work desk.) I had little doubt at that moment that the towers would likely fall, however, and figured that failure would be progressive.

        The problem is that individual members are designed to take forces which they are likely to see in service, and take them under in-service conditions. In this case, several floors and contents, plus aircraft debris were instantly dropped onto a floor below. All of this was burning.

        Steel members are protected from fire for a specified period of time to allowed occupants to leave the building. Despite a raging fire after losing fire protection due to the horrific impact and 400 mph blast, supporting several additional floors, and suffering impact damage, the system did allow a significant amount of time for occupants to leave the building. Unfortunately, the initial impact destroyed the elevators in the core and made stairwells impassible so occupants of upper levels could not make their way through the damaged floors to reach safety.

        Even with a raging fire ignited by 60,000 pounds of jet fuel the bare steel held for over 30 minutes. And then floor systems began to fail and drop additional weight and fire on intact floors below. At some point the combined weight and inertia of collapsed floors was far too much for an individual floor system to resist and the failure progressed rapidly down the tower. As each level collapsed downward it acted like a piston in a cylinder, pressurizing the space below and blowing debris out through ruptured windows. It could be clearly seen how this process blew debris for miles with amazing force. Collateral damage to nearby buildings was to be expected.

        Luckily the strong exoskeleton contained much of the structure as it fell. The towers were a quarter-mile tall. Had one toppled from its base like a tree, the damage across lower Manhattan would have been hard to imagine.

    • I do not keep notes from ten to fifteen years ago, Bregmata, but the World Trade Center collapse was a matter of drawing the heat-treating of structural steel, not melting it. Generally, it is interesting that the Truthers were originally a left-wing movement (Van Jones and his ilk), proposing a right-wing conspiracy to do all sorts of nasty things to innocent Muslims and leftists.

    • bregmata

      Climate change can’t melt steel beams.

      Back to that old canard eh?

      Tell me, please, how much tension strength a 1/2 inch diameter steel rod has at 70 deg F, at 800 deg F, at 1100 deg F, and at 1500 deg F.

      • I suspect the sarcasm in that post went completely over your head.

        BTW, I couple of years ago I saw a video of a steel bridge that collapsed because a tanker truck hauling gasoline crashed and caught fire beneath it.

  18. I’ll have to admit I’m a bit surprised. Up until now, I naively thought that kooks only frequented political sites.

  19. No surprise here.
    Russia’s Putin has been funding “green” parties and demonstrations in Europe to agitate against fracking, against ALL forms of conventional electric power generation and FOR unreliable, costly wind, solar, etc.
    What better way to have Europe depend ever greater on Russian oil and gas.
    Do not be surprised if US based “enviro” (read, communist puppets, hacks and agitators) have received $$$ from Russia.

    Russia will guarantee its future if the rest of the developed world – in its stupidity – moves toward expensive, unreliable alternate forms of energy stupidity. Rest assured that Russia will NEVER embrace this idiocy. Even China is building nuclear plants like crazy

    As an aside, during the Reagan years, the massive anti-missile-defense system demonstrations in Europe – in which hundreds of thousands participated – was also funded and encouraged by the then KGB.

    You have to hand it to the Russians; they take a no holds barred approach to promoting their own self interest and they are the most expert on earth when it comes to subterfuge and misinformation . Of course you need an abundant supply of useful homegrown useful idiots to make it work.

  20. I think we need to avoid posting the loony stuff, deflect the politics and report the SCIENCE. That’s what is going to convince rational people. The irrational can’t be convinced anyway. Me, I’m just happy the Earth’s climate is relatively stable for now and nothing we’ve done has anything to do with it. The rest is–noise.

    • Except the climate is not ‘stable’. Hasn’t been for the last 2 million years or so. We have to face reality: we are still in the Ice Ages. It hasn’t vanished at all. The ‘warm’ hysteria is insane in the teeth of this terrible reality.

      • He said “relatively stable.” Amazing how you can identify conspiracies everywhere you look but can’t grasp that one.

  21. RACookPE1978
    6:34 am

    “Bin Laden DID set off bombs below the WTC garage while Clinton was President.”

    Not true. Ramzi Yousef was the mastermind behind the 1993 WTC bombing. The night of that bombing he fled the U.S. and wound his way to Manila in the Philippines. He lived there with Khaleid Sheik Mohammed and Hakim Murad. Yousef accidentally started a fire in his apartment there and the fire brought the authorities. Yousef and KSM sent Murad back to the apartment to retrieve personal items and that led to Murad’s arrest. From the interrogation of Murad (yes, torture was used during the Clinton presidency) and info on Yousef’s computer the FBI discovered the terrorists had conceived of the idea of flying jet aircraft into buildings.

    That was 1995. Yousef would be arrested a couple months later in Islamabad. He never met bin Laden. No one knows his true identity. KSM would bring that idea to Osama bin Laden in 1997 or 1998 (4-5 years after the 1993 WTC bombing) and formally join al Qaeda at that time. He would be arrested in 2003, also in Pakistan.

  22. When you read Alarmist “scientists” spouting drivel about (say) ‘ocean acidification’, you know they are either completely stupid, monumental liars, or both.

    When the 9/11 conspiracy loons start droning on about ‘melting steel beams’, you are in exactly the same territory.

    If in doubt just consider. When a blacksmith makes a horseshoe, does he ‘melt’ the steel or just heat it to make it malleable?

    Don’t trust lying idiots.

  23. This is proof that there can be only one true megalomaniac god of climate change, not two. The one not from the Chicago machine had to go, Trotsky style.

  24. The article on Reuters doesn’t allow comments… but nowhere in the letter they posted a picture of with the article does it talk about climate change. That is a letter to his father asking him to take care of his family and other financial matters in case he should be killed.

  25. So either OBL was either a victim of the media messaging that affected many others, or he was envious of the methodical destructive force of WH over reach.

  26. Are they sure these papers were not mixed up with Krugman’s somehow. They could pass for it and the NYT on an average day.

  27. “Bin Laden Planned to Destabilise America using the Climate Issue”

    No worries – Bambi, et al., are doing that for him.

  28. Ok “skeptics” For love of humanity. Take 2 minutes from your life, watch this clip then tell me with a straight face that an office fire brought down a structurally fire proof building identical to a planned demolished building would fall.

    I thought people had at least some common sense around here…. Maybe google “skyscraper collapses from a fire” and post any positive results..?

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