DMI apologizes for their disappeared sea-ice graph debacle

Earlier this week, I published a post titled: DMI disappears an inconvenient sea ice graph . Some of the usual folks who police any sea ice discussion went ballistic over the post, and in some ugly blog posts of their own, suggested I and others were engaging in Lewandowsky inspired “conspiracy ideation”. While others may have been, I wasn’t, and made it very clear, but that doesn’t matter to those types, as that sort of stuff is their m.o. when it comes to criticizing climate skeptics.

The fact is though, that DMI did in fact remove the graph from public view, and offered no explanation to the public when they did it. If you aren’t a daily watching sea-ice fanatic like some of the critics, it was easy to miss that the product had been quality control neglected by DMI.  Worsening the issue, in an email exchange published in that same WUWT story, one DMI employee was quoted as saying (paraphrasing) “I got tired of answering questions about it so I took it offline”. If there were a lesson of how not to instill confidence in the public when decisions are made to remove data products that have been around for years, suddenly disappearing them with no explanation to the public would certainly qualify as a worst-case example. DMI simply bungled the public face of the decommissioning, there’s really no other way to look at it. Had they done this sort of due diligence before removing the graph, and placed a link to an explanation rather than to the new product with greatly differing values, there likely would not have been the questions about why it suddenly disappeared, and what the possible motives might be. The ham-handed response from the DMI employee did nothing but add suspicion to an already poorly handled situation.

They’ve realized this, and offered an explanation and an apology on their website today. I accept both, which I have republished below.

On a personal note, for those elsewhere in the blogosphere who want to try to convince skeptics that the explanation was rooted in technological problems, I suggest this maxim: “you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar”. The ugly labeling of people with legitimate questions while at the same time trying to convince them of details they may not be aware of was just as badly bungled as DMI’s decommissioning. There’s lessons to be learned all around.

From DMI:

Sea Ice extent – explanation on an appearent [sic] divergence between algorithms.

DMI has removed the old sea ice extent graph to focus the attention on the new graph that is based on data from an improved algorithm.

However, the removal of the old sea ice extent graph was done at an unfortunate time, namely, during a period where it seemed that the new and old ice extent plots disagreed (see figure 1). Naturally this has led to discussion among our dedicated followers, about the “true” ice extent. The apparent elevated sea ice extent in the data from the old extent algorithm was an artifact, caused by a new and higher resolution coast mask.

    An off-line update of the old sea ice extent plot (left), where it appears that the sea ice extent is much larger than previous years and

the sea ice extent from the operational algorithm (right), which is DMI’s and the Ocean and Sea Ice, Satellite Application Facility (OSISAF)

official estimate.

Most of our sea ice extent followers know that the old plot includes a coastal mask, inside which sea ice was is accounted for. In summer 2015 this mask was refined and the masked region was subsequently smaller, thus leaving mo re area for classified sea ice and open water. The difference in masked area, before and after summer 2015, is approximately 1.4 million km2. This corresponds to difference of the blue coast lines in figure 2, showing the old and new coastal masks in the left and right panels, respectively. The difference may be difficult to detect on the figure, but the area is quite significant. The increasing sea ice extent that is caused by the new coast mask is not great during summer, because sea ice has a relative short line of contact with land during summer. But the new and finer coast mask will result in increasingly more sea ice, compared to previous years during winter, as the coast line with sea ice contact is increasing. This is the reason for an increasing sea ice extent during current freeze-up period, relative to previous winters. A comparison of the 2015/2016 sea ice extent with previous years does therefore not make sense (see figure 1-left).

    Plots of sea ice types February 22 2015 (left) and February 22 2016 (right) using 2 different coast masks.

The mask used before summer 2015(left) is wider than the new mask (right), corresponding to approximately 1.4 million km2 less area under the new mask.

Because of the deprecated status of the old plot in the past year, DMI has not been monitoring these irregularities. The old plot should, of cause, have been removed when the mask was replaced. DMI apologizes for the confusion and inconvenience this has caused.

Source: http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/iceextent_disagreement_is_an_artifact.uk.php

h/t to mosher

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Duster
February 25, 2016 12:44 pm

‘…I suggest this maxim: “you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar”…’
In fact, it is the opposite. Flies are attracted to the acetic acid. If you set out a jar with dilute vinegar, it acts as an excellent fly trap.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Duster
February 25, 2016 1:24 pm

I must try this while it’s still legal.

Marcus ( unmelted )
Reply to  jorgekafkazar
February 25, 2016 4:31 pm

..LOL

Reply to  jorgekafkazar
February 25, 2016 5:54 pm

jorge 1:24 pm, + many and LOL and thanks because reading this thread had become quite a chore.

eyesonu
Reply to  Duster
February 25, 2016 9:30 pm

If you really want to attract flies just brush a little phosphoric acid (75% concentration) on a piece of rusty metal. You can get flies even in the winter!

Eliza
February 25, 2016 12:48 pm

BTW you can compare yearly NH thick ice here (purple)
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/
so if someone bothers to check my guess is that the graph is correct comparing with past months/years ect Thank you CT! LOL

Lawrence Martinez
Reply to  Eliza
February 25, 2016 3:57 pm

Eliza
Do you understand this graph from your linked page?
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.anomaly.arctic.png
Same question regarding a different graph, same linked page.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/seaice.area.arctic.png

Lawrence Martinez
Reply to  Lawrence Martinez
February 25, 2016 4:19 pm

@Eliza
One more from your link, this one is for global ice area and anomoly. If you look at area you’ll notice that is is now at an all time low.
http://arctic.atmos.uiuc.edu/cryosphere/IMAGES/global.daily.ice.area.withtrend.jpg

Reply to  Lawrence Martinez
February 25, 2016 5:22 pm

Lawrence Martinez,
Thanx for posting the graph of global sea ice. It shows that global ice is not at any record low. Thus, it’s just natural variability.
But if you insist on being frightened, I guess you have that right.

Reply to  Lawrence Martinez
February 25, 2016 5:29 pm

[Comment deleted. ID thief, caught again. -mod]

Richard G
Reply to  Eliza
February 25, 2016 11:28 pm

Eliza, I checked your link and your right. The 30% or greater sea ice has a higher extent in 2016 than 2015.

ferdberple
February 25, 2016 12:51 pm

“The old plot should, of cause, have been removed when the mask was replaced. DMI apologizes for the confusion and inconvenience this has caused.”
=======================
this makes no sense. why change the mask if it means you must remove the data? what was the purpose in changing the mask?
Were any other masks changed? for example, was the mask on the “15% coverage” plot changed?

Janice Moore
Reply to  ferdberple
February 25, 2016 2:33 pm
Eliza
February 25, 2016 12:52 pm

The fact is both graphs are very useful. I don’t understand why they removed the 30% graph

Marcus ( unmelted )
Reply to  Eliza
February 25, 2016 4:34 pm

…..They did not like the results..period !

A C Osborn
February 25, 2016 12:52 pm

The really odd things is that the MASIE values aremore in line with the 30% DMI.
So now they will have to either “Adjust” the MASIE values or disappear it too.
https://sunshinehours.wordpress.com/2016/02/20/masie-versus-nsidc-day-50-2016/
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2016/02/19/maisie-confirms-arctic-sea-ice-remaining-stable-in-february/
Even Mr Neven’s own analysis of Piomas also does not show January Volume as being the lowest ever either, perhaps they should disappear that as well to avoid confusion.
http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2016/02/piomas-february-2016.html#more

Reply to  A C Osborn
February 25, 2016 4:27 pm

Masie is IMO a better metric. Higher resolution than the microwave pixels since incorporates visual signals also (but I have not investigated the guts of this, just so far what Masie says on the website). For sure summer ice flow meltwater confounds microwave readings, and for sure this can be resolved optically. Essay Northwest Passage. So, Masie in summer must be better. Now, not a big difference in winter. Besides, in winter Masie doesn’t have optical signals for months.
Plus Masie uses 40% ice pixels. Big improvement. Alas, Masie starts in 2006. But, good enough to possibly show arctic ice recovery in the future. As it already seems to be doing, possibly why few refer to Masie.

Marcus ( unmelted )
Reply to  ristvan
February 25, 2016 4:39 pm

..Wait a minute…Isn’t Masie done with satellites ? ..Didn’t they just argue that satellites measurements are unreliable ?..I’m sooooooo confused !

Reply to  ristvan
February 25, 2016 6:22 pm

“Masie is IMO a better metric.”
Well, that’s an opinion. But the folks who make it have some advice. MASIE is great for its intended purpose of locating the edge of the ice, but not for comparisons over time.
“2. When should I use MASIE and when should I use the Sea Ice Index?
Use the Sea Ice Index when comparing trends in sea ice over time or when consistency is important. Even then, the monthly, not the daily, Sea Ice Index views should be used to look at trends in sea ice. The Sea Ice Index documentation explains how linear regression is used to say something about trends in ice extent, and what the limitations of that method are. Use MASIE when you want the most accurate view possible of Arctic-wide ice on a given day or through the week. “

A C Osborn
February 25, 2016 1:05 pm

MASIE is closer to the 30% than the 15% DMI and now they will have to “Quality Adjust” that or disappear it too.
https://sunshinehours.wordpress.com/2016/02/20/masie-versus-nsidc-day-50-2016/
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2016/02/19/maisie-confirms-arctic-sea-ice-remaining-stable-in-february/
https://xmetman.wordpress.com/2016/02/19/masie/
Even Mr Neven’s own analysis of PIOMAS Volume does not show January as being the lowest ever volume either.
http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2016/02/piomas-february-2016.html#more

A C Osborn
February 25, 2016 1:06 pm

Sorry for the duplication as the 1st post appeared to have got lost, but was just delayed.

Marcus ( unmelted )
Reply to  A C Osborn
February 25, 2016 4:41 pm

..It will be forever more known as the ” Osborn Hiccup ” ! Your fate is sealed ! LOL

charles nelson
February 25, 2016 1:23 pm

It would appear to me that even with the best will in the world, and all the modern resources available, we have only a vague idea of what current sea ice conditions may be. If you put that alongside the fact that we know little about conditions before the 70s and even less about the decades and centuries before…it’s hard to get too worried about any trends…especially as small as the ones currently being observed.

Marcus ( unmelted )
Reply to  charles nelson
February 25, 2016 4:44 pm

…We seem to know a lot about what we don’t know and just guess at the rest ! I think Mother Nature has a whole lot of surprises to send our way soon !

Robert B
February 25, 2016 1:28 pm

Just two points
Why does the 15% plot have data going back to 2012 but a 1979-2000 mean? If the 30% plot could be so far off because of a change in masking (which needed to be done prior to better sat. data) then that comparison must be completely meaningless.
Secondly is this plot that has not been updated since (they changed the masking?) 2009.
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/ice_anim/9.gif
I think that both show pressure towards biased analysis.

Robert B
Reply to  Robert B
February 25, 2016 1:37 pm

better link to the page
http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/index.uk.php

angech
Reply to  Robert B
February 25, 2016 4:18 pm

The DMI 30% graph was done by the Danes by their own algorithm for 11 years.
The new 15% chart is actually done by someone else with satellite data going back to 1979 hence the different mean and the plot being similar to all other 15% graphs.
The Danes were to embarrassed by their 30% graph differences that they bowed to pressure to use a better, proper Swedish graph.
[OK, maybe not Swedish but it felt good saying that, sorry moderator]

Marcus ( unmelted )
Reply to  angech
February 25, 2016 4:46 pm

…So it’s actually manipulated garbage ?

jorgekafkazar
February 25, 2016 1:55 pm

I don’t blame anyone for being paranoid about “disappeared” charts and data. That’s the reality of Science today, as a result of warmist machinations, Yamalification, orchard picking of dendro data, stonewalling of FOIA requests, failure to publish data, refusal to provide methodologies, nuisance lawsuits, pal review, biased journals, irreproducible papers, and so on and on.
In its ethics, Science has descended to Lysenkoist levels, where assumption of intent to deceive is a sensible strategy.
I don’t believe that any of the partisans in the commentary above caused this situation, but I think we should all take note that deceptive science by others has eroded trust throughout Science in general. The Ship of Science is sinking, and we’re rearranging the deck chairs, here, arguing about a very small and untimely issue.

February 25, 2016 2:42 pm

Anthony without starting another conspiracy … Why is the mean data shading only showin 1979 – 2000 data surely for statistical accuracy it should show 1979 to previous year ( 2015 ) wouldn’t that be a more accurate comparison representation of the mean data facts vs current data.

Chris Z.
February 25, 2016 2:49 pm

The only explanation for the erroneous high 30% values during 2015/16 (if that’s what they turn out to be) is that they used the NEW mask (giving a larger basic area) with the OLD method of calculation. There must logically be some sort of fixed correction factor involved, for the discrepancy of the measured area (minus the masked pixels) and the actual area (including the masked pixels). That difference became smaller with the finer-grained mask, so the correction should have been lowered at the same time.
What is profoundly unlogical (and therefore unconvincing to me) is that they forgot to use the correct way of calculating from the newly-masked data for the 30% plot, but made a smooth transition on the 15% plot at the same time, and yet weren’t able to simply switch the 30% plot to the new calculation as well. Both plots are derived from the same data AFAIK, only with a different between “no ice” and “ice”, which naturally is not a black-and-white binary distinction because of the finite (and considerable) area of every pixel on the satellite images, so you have to “posterize” the raw data to measure areas at or above a particular percentage of ice present. It should be no great thing to even make the percentage value a variable that either the viewer, or certainly the compiler of the published graphs, can input ad-libitum to generate graphs related to any relative ice/water percentage they might desire. A proper method workable for 15% minimum ice cannot be failing for 30% minimum ice, as the difference is merely a different threshold applied to the very same source data. No matter how that has been masked (or not).

angech
Reply to  Chris Z.
February 25, 2016 4:26 pm

Could be wrong but the new mask should only apply to the 30% data. This was different from the 15% graphs because they assessed coastlines in a totally different way. The new mask should not be being applied to any 15% graph.
They use totally different algorithms .
DMI 30% is original Danish math mastery.
30% is the Danish original Algorithm from 11 years ago.
15% is the Swedish/IPCC/World Algorithm from 1979.
No coastal masking included.
Much better than the Danish, obviously.
As the Danes have admitted.

Janice Moore
Reply to  angech
February 25, 2016 4:45 pm

angech the amazing Swede (smile),
Just wanted to tell you how much I am enjoying reading your insightful (and sometimes humorous) comments. Thanks for all the great info.!
Janice

Chris Z.
February 25, 2016 2:50 pm

…only with a different RELATION between…. – sorry!

William Grubel
February 25, 2016 4:35 pm

Now how about the RSS Northern Polar Temperature Lower Troposphere (TLT) – 1979 to Present graph. I notice it has quit updating too. Seems like every time something starts to show a trend the warmistas don’t like it simply stops updating.

February 25, 2016 5:59 pm

if the topic here is agw then it does not matter what the sea ice is doing. the only thing that matters is whether whatever the sea ice is doing can be related to the rate of fossil fuel emissions by way of warming, but there is no empirical evidence to support that relationship.
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2725743

Reply to  Jamal Munshi
February 25, 2016 8:54 pm

J. Munshi,
Exactamundo, Jamal. We need evidence! But they have no evidence.
Next! …

Glenn999
February 25, 2016 6:56 pm

I still don’t understand why we compare everything to the start date of 1979, at the end of a cold period, when ice levels were known to be high. Maybe they were unusually high and not the norm. Maybe now is not death spiral; just NORMAL.
Oh well, what do I know?

Editor
Reply to  Glenn999
February 26, 2016 2:08 pm

1979 marks the start of the satellite record and accurate sea ice measurements. Earlier data has much greater uncertainties. The timing is a bit unfortunate.

KTM
February 25, 2016 7:08 pm

This is a symptom of a cancer that afflicts climate “science”. The prevailing opinion is that “improvements” to the data can and should be made in real-time, with no concern that by doing so they may invalidate or muddle 100+ years of previous work done by so many people.
Hard copies of the data are not retained, the digital data is tampered with daily, the changes go unexplained, and requests for any sort of records or explanations re met with obstruction or angry denunciations.
No other science that I know of operates like this. The original records and data are sacrosanct. Post-hoc meddling is misconduct. But climate “science” has a culture problem where this sort of thing is encouraged.

Unmentionable
February 25, 2016 7:08 pm

When data blasphemes … via telling the truth … and it got a bit too interesting, too fast.
@Jamal Munshi All true Jamal, except perception/emotion/BS is how team AGW rolls. Nevertheless hard data will win this, it always wins anti science religious argumentation over time.
Hopefully before we drop-off the twig.

AndyG55
February 25, 2016 8:35 pm

The real question is, seeing that they had one of the longest term CONSISTENT measurements of sea ice…
…. why would they change the masking and the algorithm?
The only way you can tell REAL changes over time is keeping the same methodology.

Reply to  AndyG55
February 25, 2016 9:04 pm

Excellent question Andy. Even if we know the mask is wrong, why would it matter? After all, we are looking at anomalies. Right?

Taylor Pohlman
Reply to  AndyG55
February 25, 2016 9:12 pm

I think folks are missing the point of having these two graphs. They obviously aren’t directly comparable, because of different algorithms, but relative to each other, I look for situations where it the gap is widening, I assume the ice is spreading out, and therefore average volume is decreasing vs. if the gap is narrowing the ice is compressing. Otherwise, if you just look at the 15%, it’s impossible to know if expanding extent is due to more ice vs. existing ice spreading out. Frustrating to not have that insight any more.

AndyG55
Reply to  Taylor Pohlman
February 26, 2016 12:13 am

“Frustrating to not have that insight any more.”
It is that comparison with even the slightly longer sea ice record that they will DESPERATELY be trying to hide over the never few years !!

seaice1
Reply to  Taylor Pohlman
February 26, 2016 9:10 am

You can use sea ice area vs sea ice extent to get an indication.

Pethefin
February 25, 2016 10:15 pm

I took awhile but finally the DMI did what I and many others were asking for and even apologized for the confusion they had created with their communication. The apology certainly was a surprise considering the usual behavior in climate science, but very welcome.
What is interesting in their explanation is the fact that they updated their costal mask, does that mean that they will keep their traditional 30% ice coverage metric for their other sea-ice products?

KTM
February 25, 2016 10:19 pm

“I got tired of answering questions about it so I took it offline”.
That person is no scientist.
A real scientist LOVES to talk about their work, to anybody anytime. They will talk the ears off a total stranger who shows the tiniest hint of interest.

February 26, 2016 12:15 am

I read that all this would happen over these graphs a year and a half ago…

Pethefin
Reply to  Sparks
February 26, 2016 12:24 am

Interesting, where did you read (a year and a half ago) that the DMI would update their coastal mask, forget to adjust the 30 % algorithm, and later be forced to reinterpreted the graph? Yeah sure, they said that the old graph was substituted with a new, and hinted of the discontinuation, but this?

Reply to  Pethefin
February 26, 2016 7:57 am

There was a discussion about them removing it when it was pointed out that sea ice was increasing, I think it may have been on Tony Hellars site…

Pethefin
Reply to  Pethefin
February 27, 2016 1:29 am

You should read the entire question before trying to answer it.

February 26, 2016 1:03 am

I think what this highlights for many of us laymen and women is that empirically, we have no idea of ice volume. Just area is imaged and “modeled”.
Is that correct, the ice volume is modeled. As in best guess? As in we generally have no idea on thickness of sea ice?
Given that the “guess” changes as alterations are made, do we have any real idea of the accuracy?
I seem to be getting tired of models having an appearance of fact, this issue with the 30% error shows that clearly. We are to accept that it or the 15% was ever right in the first place

Clovis Marcus
February 26, 2016 3:10 am

While I accept the explanation that underlying land mapping will change the output. I think there are still some legitimate unanswered questions
I wonder when the new coastal mapping was applied because I;d have expected a step change which I don’t see. Is there something in the algorithm to smooth that out? If so why? It would have rung alarm bells immediately.
I’d also ;like it backed up with a comparison graph for,say, 6 months before and 6 months after the change in input data, to show how the plots were affected. It’s the sort of forensics I’d have to give if one of my projects went wrong. I’d be expected to show external forces had caused the failure.

NevenA
Reply to  Clovis Marcus
February 26, 2016 4:31 am

I wonder when the new coastal mapping was applied because I;d have expected a step change which I don’t see.

According to the DMI it was applied in Summer, a time when there isn’t much sea ice near most of the Arctic Ocean’s coasts. As things filled up again with ice reaching the shores, the disparity became larger. Makes sense really, but it hadn’t crossed my mind. Thanks for the suggestion.

Pethefin
Reply to  NevenA
February 26, 2016 10:13 am

NIce of you Neven to admit that the DMI explanation was something new, even to you. Too many alarmists are acting as if they knew this all along. Kudos to DMI for explaining and apologizing for confusion that resulted from the lack of communication.

Brian
Reply to  NevenA
February 26, 2016 11:35 am

“Too many alarmists are acting as if they knew this all along.”
I see many “alarmists” saying they knew there was something wrong with the plot, not that they knew these kind of details. Many, including myself, said that accusations of nefarious intent were premature. So many commenters here jumped straight to the blame game without having any kind of an answer, and many are still doing so. It would seem that inflammatory rhetoric is preferred to finding answers. Now, there are plenty of commenters here who are indeed seeking answers, but there’s an awful lot of nonsense diluting them.

Pethefin
Reply to  NevenA
February 26, 2016 11:58 pm

Brian, I do agree that discussions concerning climate science have become quite unproductive. And I do agree that suspecting malice is premature when simple incompetence is sufficient, as long as no documentation is available. Do you agree that that crying “conspiracy ideation” every time some criticizes climate scientists is even worse as it is purely anti-scientific.

angech
February 26, 2016 4:28 am

Good point Clovis. The excuse is they introduced it in summer when the coastline was not so involved. Sounds a trifle dodgy as they showed new and old areas with masking that were quite different .
Where is the step. Is it less in Summer.
I presume they showed winter comparisons?