Guest Opinion: Dr. Tim Ball

An interesting pattern developed early in the official involvement in global warming. If a person challenged the claim that humans were causing global warming (AGW), it was assumed they were on the political right. If you supported AGW, then you were on the left. This categorization is not related to the science, but to the political nature of the science involved. This occurred in two major parts. The original objective of those using global warming for their political agenda and the marginalizing of those who questioned the science by linking them to industries and their wealthy owners. The author believes the evidence shows that human CO2 is not causing AGW, that the hypothesis is not proved. This article is not written to pick political sides. Rather, it is an attempt to help understand the battles waged and the confusion this created for the public, the politicians, the media, and a majority of scientists.
The world needed the new paradigm of environmentalism. The problem is that a few grabbed it for a political agenda. They used it as a vehicle to take the moral high ground, to claim only they cared about the environment. They argued that everyone else was guilty of environmental destruction because of their avarice and wasteful ways. The debate about global warming is a subset of environmentalism that was also hijacked using the same themes.
At the first Heartland Conference in New York in 2004 Vaclav Klaus twice Prime Minister of the Czech Republic was the keynote speaker. His opening remark that we have just gone through 70 years of communism so why the hell would you want to go back to that brought a standing ovation. It supports the fact that environmentalism and AGW is a political agenda pushed by extremely wealthy and powerful left wing people most of who made their money exploiting the environment. The psychology of that is beyond the discussion here, but consider the hypocrisy of George Soros, Maurice Strong, Bill Gates, the Rockefeller’s, Leonardo DiCaprio, and Ted Turner among many others.
Maurice Strong described himself as “a socialist in ideology, a capitalist in methodology”.
This description appears to apply to them all.
The confusion for the public that wealthy people are also socialists is similar to that about another person. Most people think Adolf Hitler was a right wing fascist, but he was a socialist who also promoted a form of environmentalism. The word “Nazi” stands for National Socialism.
Collectively, most of these wealthy socialists acted through their privileged group called the Club of Rome. The Club was formed in 1968 at David Rockefeller’s estate in Bellagio, Italy. In their 1994 book The First Global Revolution Alexander King and Bertrand Schneider wrote.
“The common enemy of humanity is man. In searching for a new enemy to unite us, we came up with the idea that pollution, the threat of global warming, water shortages, famine and the like would fit the bill. All these dangers are caused by human intervention, and it is only through changed attitudes and behavior that they can be overcome. The real enemy then, is humanity itself.”
They claim the list of enemies is designed to unite people. In fact, it is needed to overcome what they see as the divisiveness of nation-states and to justify the establishment of one-world government or global socialism. They believe that global warming is a global problem that national governments cannot resolve. The changed behavior they want is for all to become socialists.
They finally settled on global warming as the environmental issue best suited for their goal. Of course, the plan was just the beginning. One of my favorite cartoons from the New Yorker showed Moses on the mountain with the Ten Commandments. The caption read “Great idea, who is going to fund it?” Global warming and the identification of human produced CO2 as the problem suited all the political, financial, and pseudo-religious controls a socialist group could desire.
The Kyoto Protocol was presented as a solution to the problem of human-caused global warming. Those who created the Protocol also created the problem. Through the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) they produced the science required to support their claim. It is a well-thought out, well-planned, classic circular argument. One of the early examples occurred in the book Ecoscience: Population, Resources, Environment co-authored by Paul and Anne Ehrlich and President Obama’s current Science Advisor John Holdren. While discussing the non-existent problem of overpopulation they wrote,
Indeed, it has been concluded that compulsory population-control laws, even including laws requiring compulsory abortion, could be sustained under the existing Constitution if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society.
The question is who “concluded that compulsory population-control” could be sustained? The answer is the authors did. The next question is who decides “if the population crisis became sufficiently severe to endanger the society?” Again, it is the authors. So, they claim there is a problem, then they decide when it is severe enough to warrant complete suspension of legal controls against such totalitarianism.
More succinctly, they created the problem, created the proof of the problem, then offered the solution. This is what was done with the AGW claim. They assumed, incorrectly, that a CO2 increase causes a temperature increase. They then provided proof by programming computer models in which a CO2 increase caused a temperature increase. They ran the model(s) by doubling CO2, ceteris paribus. The results showed a temperature increase, which proved their claim. Now they could use CO2 as the lever for all their political objectives incorporated into the Kyoto Protocol. Science became the basis of blind faith.
In Kyoto, nations who developed their economies and became wealthy using CO2 were to pay for their sins by giving money to nations who suffered. It was a penance. Catholics paid penance for their sins which included a delay in their entrance to heaven. In the medieval Catholic church, you could buy Indulgences to bypass the punishment. Carbon Credits became the modern equivalent, and Al Gore was the equivalent of The Pardoner selling Indulgences as celebrated in Chaucer’s Canterbury Tales. With Indulgences and Carbon Credits there was no reduction in the sins. In fact, they encouraged more sins because you simply bought a pass – a get-out-of jail-free card.
Kyoto provided the political basis for the agenda. It was a classic redistribution of wealth that is the goal of a socialist government. Money from successful developed nations was given to less successful developing nations. To collect and redistribute the money required a government that overarched all nation-states. A single world government that managed a world banking system was the ideal. Temporarily the United Nations and the International Monetary Fund would suffice.
Kyoto provided the basis for the financial agenda. Money needed to fund the single world government was a global carbon tax. Many notable people, like Ralph Nader, claimed the tax was the best solution to stop climate change. Funding was part of the plan for the 2009 Copenhagen Conference of the Parties 15 (COP15). The COP can only act on the science provided by the IPCC. Apparently somebody knew the political agenda was based on false science and exposed it by leaking emails from the Climatic Research Unit (CRU). This worked because the scientists controlling the IPCC worked at, or with, the CRU. They controlled key chapters in IPCC Reports, including the instrumental data, the paleoclimate data, and the computer models. They also ensured their presence on the most influential document, the Summary for Policymakers (SPM). The Wegman Report that examined the dispute over the ‘hockey stick’ produced in the 2001 Report recognized the incestuous relationships of the research when they wrote,
Recommendation 1. Especially when massive amounts of public monies and human lives are at stake, academic work should have a more intense level of scrutiny and review. It is especially the case that authors of policy-related documents like the IPCC report, Climate Change 2001: The Scientific Basis, should not be the same people as those that constructed the academic papers.
The leaked information delayed the political process, but it was only temporary. The following year at COP16 in Durban they produced the replacement program called the Green Climate Fund (GCF). It was approved at COP21 in Paris in December 2015.
The process and method of setting up the AGW hypothesis through the UN paralleled those required to form a left wing or socialist government. It automatically identified those scientists who questioned the hypothesis as at least sympathetic to capitalism – guilt by association. It is part of today’s view that if you are not with me, you must be against me. Over the years, a few scientists told me they agreed with the skeptics but would not say so publicly because they were socialists.
Vaclav Klaus was one of the few world political leaders to identify what was going on. He recognized that global warming was a subset of environmentalism. He recognized that it was a blind faith belief system based on no evidence or, at best, manufactured evidence. In his book Blue Planet in Green Shackles, he wrote,
“it should be clear by now to everyone that activist environmentalism (or environmental activism) is becoming a general ideology about humans, about their freedom, about the relationship between the individual and the state, and about the manipulation of people under the guise of a “noble” idea. It is not an honest pursuit of “sustainable development,” a matter of elementary environmental protection, or a search for rational mechanisms designed to achieve a healthy environment. Yet things do occur that make you shake your head and remind yourself that you live neither in Joseph Stalin’s Communist era, nor in the Orwellian utopia of 1984.”
The pattern of identifying those skeptical about the AGW hypothesis as right wing was an inevitable result of the political objective.
This will be very upsetting for the USDA and World health Org., i.e. UN. Van der Nest made another crucial point during cross examination of th HPCSA’s final expert witness, Stellenbosch University psychiatry professor Willie Pienaar, one on which this hearing hinges, saying: “South Africa has a constitution that specifically guarantees scientists freedom of speech.
“This is important not only for our democracy, but for the development of humankind that scientists not be muzzled and that their freedom of speech is protected.”
Just the same fight as Climate Change. Tim Noakes: caught in a turf war over an inconvenient truth? http://www.biznews.com/low-carb-healthy-fat-science/2016/02/22/tim-noakes-is-he-caught-up-in-a-turf-war-over-inconvenient-truth-banting-lchf/
What the UN’s World Health Org., and USDA don’t want you to know ! If the HPCSA hoped its hearing against UCT emeritus professor Tim Noakes on a charge of unprofessional conduct would shut him up, the opposite has happened. http://www.biznews.com/low-carb-healthy-fat-science/2016/02/22/tim-noakes-is-he-caught-up-in-a-turf-war-over-inconvenient-truth-banting-lchf/ parallels with Climate Change is astonishing. In Noakes Medical Intervention there is no money to be made. Big food and Big Pharma are very concerned.
So just out of curiosity, is there anyone on in the comments section that would identify as left wing? e.g. vote for Bernie Sanders (or comparable politician when not from the US) ?
No one who cares about the issue, which I believe would be 100% of Skeptics/Climate Realists would vote Sanders or Clinton, or anyone who espouses the CAGW dogma. It is the most important issue of our time. All others pale by comparison.
Is it really that important? I mean, if you subscribe to CAGW, then yes, it’s catastrophic and therefore important. But if you don’t, well… then all you have is a bit of fossil fuel being replaced by renewable (which is a good thing considering that our oil money mostly goes to terrible governments that we don’t want to support). And a lot of woowaaa in UN conferences that tend to not have any effect on the real world anyway. So why is it so much more important than say… massive debt causing possible economic collapse in the near future?
benben:
The left/right split on the AGW issue uniquely exists in the USA and it is recent.
In 1997 the US Senate unanimously voted to not sign the Kyoto Protocol. This was the Byrd–Hagel Resolution that was agreed by a majority of 95–0.
As I explain in my above post this US bi-partisan political unanimity on AGW ceased with the release of Al Gore’s sci-fi movie in 2006.
Richard
Interesting post. Thanks. But it seems like in my country there also is a tendency for right-wing to be less concerned about the environment. I’m guessing it has something to do with that if you intrinsically don’t like big government you’ll tend to distrust issues for which you need big government to make it work. Except for nuclear energy and fighting massive wars in far away countries. You definitely need a lot of government for those, but right wing types still tend to favour them.
benben:
Thanks for that.
I note your opinion that “in {your} country there also is a tendency for right-wing to be less concerned about the environment” and I suspect that may be true, but I have not seen any evidence that it is true.
I intend no offense when I say that such opinions (both pro and anti right or left) tend to reflect the positions on the political spectrum of those providing the opinions. Hence, my desire for evidence.
What I do know is that throughout the world there are ‘rent seekers’ of every political persuasion who support (or have supported) the AGW-scare for reasons of personal advantage. And throughout the world there are also people who oppose the AGW-scare for reasons of scientific and/or political integrity. Which, of course, does not deny that there are people who support the AGW-scare for reasons of genuine and altruistic concern (to be clear, I think they are mistaken).
Richard
NO and that goes for Hilary and Trudeau .
“the marginalizing of those who questioned the science by linking them to industries and their wealthy owners”
This sentence might have more bearing than its author intended, naming as it does the root cause of political problems far beyond CAGW: “Industries and their wealthy owners” are, or should be, the very definition of “mainstream” in a modern industrial society that literally lives off their productivity. But what has happened instead? Those associated (or associating) with this centerpiece of our society are regarded as “marginalized”, an alleged association with “big oil” etc. is even widely regarded as a smear boardering on libel. The very parts of society that generate wealth cannot logically be “marginal”. Looking at them in this way is IMNSHO the falsehood upon which all the others in today’s politics are built.
Claiming the moral high-ground is a large driver for AGW, larger than the science. Ironically even when acting like unethical thugs AGW zealots still claim the moral high-ground. When ideology and moral posturing supersedes reason, reality, ethics, and common sense you end up with something like Climate Science.
Which is exactly what happened during the era of prohibition. Not favoring prohibition meant you supported immorality. You denied the dire prediction of “knowledgeable and informed” politicians, scientists, scholars and doctors of the certain destruction of society and eventually the country due exclusively to alcoholic beverages.
People ask how can so many believe in AGW, including so many scientists, if AGW is not true. The answer is in another question; how in the world did the Eighteenth Amendment pass prohibiting alcohol. It is extraordinarily difficult to add an amendment to the constitution but this ill conceived, completely out of touch with reality and common sense idea was passed. The cloud of stupid that passed over the entire nation like a plague for this amendment to pass is incredible, but it did. Which as we know led to rampant growth of organized crime, draconian measures by government, poisonous alcoholic beverage substitutes, and after much violence, death, blindness and suffering finally repeal of the amendment.
So if anyone asks how is it possible for AGW to be wrong if there is so much agreement on its being right, mention how the 18th amendment was passed with much more overwhelming agreement and it was one the wrongest, stupidest things this country did as a nation.
Jonah Goldberg’s book ‘Liberal Fascism’ gives a good insight into the rise of national and international socialism under Mussolini and Hitler and Stalin with a good view of liberalism and eugenics (the population control referred to in the article).
This is the essential observation that so many would-be skeptics shy away from for many personal and in the past professional reasons. It’s exceedingly depressing for those of a certain generation to admit your society has sunk to tolitarian agenda science standards especially if you share the same general political sympathy as most do in “Eco” science fields. Add to that the “the just cause” rationalizations for the behavior (ends justify means) and a special conspiracy hate culture surrounding “big oil” etc. and you see the road we are on.
The large growth of government fosters large populations who feel immune to market driven society and even resent it deeply. The Bernie Sanders/Socialist moment is another similar lesson, if people resent the future production economies offer then they seek academic and abstract choices (government and protected enclaves) that are more immune (at least shorter term) to market forces. It explains Obama in 08′ in response to the largely misunderstood “financial crisis” and the general drift down after the revival of the 1980’s of the private sector. As long as they can find rations to distribute (such as climate science research funding) it’s a relatively large audience and stream of like minded experts who will support government control over private interests and freedom. A “Road to Serfdom” cycle if ever there was one.
Some of it is willful ignorance of the consumer of consensus climate narratives (maybe much of it) but at the higher end of academic community in particular there can be no forgiveness for the aversion to directly link AGW to the particular political culture that incubated it from inception. It was always a money and power ploy to expropriate private to government interests for “the common good”.
The enviromental movement is only one sect of the government religion of Secular Socialism.
The Secular Socialists “SS” have been evangelizing in competition with Christianity for decades and has been successful in its efforts particularly since, as the state religion, it has the power to attack the various Christian sects eliminating school prayer and other competing symbols. Its various denominations IPCC, NOW, LGBT, NAACP, SEIU, ACLU, SPLC, etc. have been very successful in recruiting membership and reducing the membership of the competition from Baptist, Catholic, Methodist, et al. The similarities of the SS with deist religions as well as its differences are thought provoking.
The SS membership has a particularly powerful belief system versus its competition. The SS can ignore the actual evidence of its doctrinal failures. Christianity & Islam can only raise money and membership based upon the faith in a Supreme Supernatural being by promising a utopia in life after death even though there is no proof either for or against the premise. The SS has successfully been able to promote its faith in a Supreme Central Collective and promise of an earth bound socialist utopia despite the existence of historical facts that its dogma when instituted has been an abject failure resulting in murder, poverty and destruction of freedom every time it has been implemented.
Speaking as a non-Marxist “practical” socialist, I can honestly say that all environmental radicals that I have come across are not socialists per se, but pseudo-religious theocrats. To them, AGW is their religion. There is no other way to describe how people could rationalize 35 years of non-stop failed prophesies of apocolyptic doom as gospel truths to be defended like Crusaders to the Cross.
As for government policies, AGW is just another perfect hiding place for corruption. Look at the wind farms. Prime example. It’s all about collecting fat subsidies for a power source that rarely works put into place by bribes to politicians. Same with ethanol, which has been the longest running “renewable” subsidy scam.
Also, AGW is all about fear. Anyone who has watched the devolution of the mainstream news media knows that Fear is the preferred method of controlling populations these days. Terrified people are more apt to prefer the infantile security of totalitarianism over the adult uncertainties of democracy.
AGW is also very useful in the Republican versus Democrat power struggles…. or “good fascist, bad fascist” as I like to call it. It’s a fringe issue like abortion and gay rights that can be used to keep the party faithful in line and not questioning more important issues such as economic mismanagement, disastrous foreign policies, and support for terrorists, racists, and authoritarian regimes abroad.
“Practical” socialism I define as the use of moderate social control over a capitalist economy, to provide for the goods and services that capitalism cannot, will not, and should not provide on it’s own. There are certain things that should never be operated on a for-profit basis, prisons being the number one example. Capitalism allows for creative expression in the commercial sphere but regulations are required to protect the population from those predators who abuse the system. A healthy and prosperous working class is the most solid base for a strong economy, not a handful of financiers hoarding all capital and impoverishing the majority. There is always a need for social services for the infirm, the elderly, and the abused that capitalism will not provide. The better we take care of each other, the stronger and more resilient we are as a people.
The “liberals” who want to censor all speech, tear down flags and monuments, put people on trial for free speech and scientific inquiry, destroy fossil fuel production and therefore modern civilization, etc….. they’re just infantile morons. They’re pig ignorant of how the world works. They are convinced they are superior to all others simply by calling themselves liberals. They think electing one man to the White House will instantly cure all the ills of society. They’re ridiculous. They would be completely laughable if not for the fact they are being used as pawns in the Politics of Fear.
Tim Ball,
You have addressed a set of world views that must be discussed if we are to avert a dark age. Thank you.
John
Socialism is really a method for having a few people with great power ruling all of us. These few will have the wealth of the the government to spend and the power of the government to use against the rest of us. It will be 5% on top and the other 95% as slaves. That is what it is about. The smartest (and the most thuggish) of the so called socialists know this and plan to be in the 5%. Others, including the misguided academics, will be slaves, they just do not know it yet. Look at what the USSR was (and in many respects still is), look at China, look at Cuba, look at Venezuela. The concept of socialism as being a viable political / economic system is a sham. Is only about a powerful thuggish elite and the rest slaves dressed up as a compassionate fairy land.
Read “1984”, read history, think. I know it is tough after all of these years being given everything for doing nothing. But try.
Dave the Engineer:
You say
That is as untrue, is as divorced from any reality, and is as ridiculous as the above polemical rant fro Tim Ball.
Richard
I love the way Richard actually believes that all he has to do to refute someone, is to just shout “not true” over and over again.
Oh yea, there’s also the standard “far right wing propaganda”.
While the theory of socialism may not involve totalitarianism, the actuality of it does.
There is no way to force people to live as most of them don’t want to, without massive amounts of force.
MarkW:
I despise the way that you spout untrue political nonsense. All people of good will oppose fascists such as yourself.
‘Dave the Engineer’ posted the untrue nonsense which you have supported with your fascist propaganda.
‘Dave the Engineer’ made the assertions and he needs to provide evidence to support those assertions. All anybody else needs to do is – as I did – to point out that his assertions are falsehoods.
Richard
Can you explain? Socialism is often used as a ruse for totalitarianism. USSR / Stalin, NASI Germany / Hitler, Cuba / Castro, Venezuela / Chavez.
Can you explain? Socialism is often used as a mask for totalitarianism. USSR/Stalin, NAZI Germany/Hitler, Cuba/Castro, Venezuela/Chavez.
There he goes again, the socialist declaring that anyone who disagrees with him must be a fascist.
PS: As usual, Richard declares that because he disagrees with it, it must be wrong.
GTL: By definition, socialism promotes freedom.
Fascism et. al. don’t promote freedom.
Ergo, socialism isn’t fascism.
It’s really simple once you understand how socialists define away any disagreement with their perfect system.
GTL:
You conflate a series of mutually exclusive political philosophies and call them all “socialism”.
NO! I gave a clear explanation of socialism – and the other philosophies you assert – on WUWT here and I subsequentlt discused the matters in that thread.
Please ignore the ‘noises off’ from MarkW: as fascists always do, he tries to ‘shout down’ truth.
Richard
MarkW:
I do NOT say anyone who disagrees with me is a fascist. Your assertion that I do is merely more of your fascist propaganda.
I say YOU by your words and your actions have repeatedly demonstrated and do repeatedly demonstrate that YOU are a fascist.
Richard
Richard,
Thank you for the referral to your earlier posts in another thread. They were helpful in understanding your thinking.
Please reread my post. I did not equate USSR, NAZI Germany or the others with socialism; I said socialism has been abused for more nefarious purposes. You are correct in saying they were not socialist.
My point is a centrally controlled government (as Marx would define socialism) to often is abused to become totalitarianism.
That is not to say that other economic models have not been abused. Capitalism in Argentina has been abused to create corporatism, where the government is controlled by corporations for the benefit of corporations. I believe the Pope is confused about capitalism as a result.
Idealistically, socialism has more appeal than capitalism. Bad as capitalism is, it has worked better than any other I am aware of to date.
GTL:
Thankyou for that. It seems we have much agreement and some disagreement. That is good.
I point out that I strongly agree with you when you say
Indeed, as I said in my linked post you have read
The great risk is not that socialism will evolve into communism (which can never work), but is the same as the great risk of any other form of government: i.e. no system of government guarantees that totalitarians cannot gain control (e.g. see how democracy evolved in Germany in the 1930s). That is the risk to be defended against whatever system of government is adopted.
And I also thank you for ignoring the ‘noises off’.
Richard
GTL:
I genuinely appreciate your answer. My response to your answer has ‘vanished’ and I hope it has gone in the ‘bin’. If it has not appeared in the morning I will resubmit it.
For now, I want you to know I am grateful that you have ignored the ‘noises off’.
Richard
Richard,
No need for thanks when you are correct.
I have always appreciated your responses regarding science, I seek you out in these posts. Your “duels” with Ferdinand (who I respect also) have been a great source of climate education for me. I remain skeptical of “mass balance” and as you know despise the silly bank deposit analogies often employed in that argument.
As you have stated, we likely agree on a great deal more than we disagree.
David democrats keep you poor and uneducated – Discussion on Topix
http://www.topix.com › Louisiana › Natchitoches Parish › Natchitoches
Jan 15, 2015 – It’s really sad to see an entire population be manipulated by a political party who wants nothing more than to KEEP them poor and uneducated …
No matter which system you have, someone will try to game the system and seize power. Freedom isn’t free. You have to work for it. Trying to rely on a ‘system’ to protect you from the power hungry is a mug’s game.
Our democracy is badly corrupted. Folks are willing to elect Sanders or Trump because they have figured that out.
commieBob:
You and I usually disagree, but I agree each and every of your statements in your post I am answering.
Richard
Reblogged this on ClimateTheTruth.com and commented:
A succinct and insightful explanation of the genesis of and moving forces behind the massive disinformation campaign that is Climate Change alarmism.
Jonathan Cohler:
Except that Ball’s essay is a massive disinformation campaign that is a fabrication of history. As Bryan said of it in this thread
Indeed, he understates the matter because using blatant falsehoods against CAGW risks harming opposition to CAGW when the falsehoods are exposed. And the falsehoods are blatantly obvious to people outside the USA because the purported left/right split on AGW only exists in the USA.
Richard
Why does Tim Ball keep on wanting to publicly demonstrate that his knowledge of religious history is about as good as Michael Mann’s knowledge of climate science? For example, he states, “In the medieval Catholic church, you could buy Indulgences to bypass the punishment.” Really? Well, anybody who is prepared to distort reality can make such a claim. The reality is that some people may well have attempted to sell Indulgences. Is that the same thing as ‘The Catholic Church sold indulgences’? Not to anybody with a modicum of reasoning ability. If, say, some Republican politicians were found guilty of embezzling party funds would anybody, with a fair mind, conclude from that ‘The Republican Party promotes embezzlement’?
As to Indulgences not reducing sins because they simply bought you a ‘get-out-of-jail-free card, that just shows in bucketloads that Dr Ball just has not bothered to find out the real meaning of an Indulgence.
This website published article after article saying that the climate alarmists are ignoring the evidence. Well, people can hardly expect the climate alarmists to take any notice of people who show that they are wrong if those same people take no notice when people point out that they are wrong.
As to Hitler, he was never a socialist. He joined the National Socialist German Workers’ Party. For a time this party had a manifesto which could be described as having socialist elements but Hitler was never in favour of those policies. Eventually he removed from influence in the party those who actually did believe in socialism. People who have read the history of the Nazi Party, rather than be mesmerised, by its name know that. Hitler got most of his party funds from rich industrialists, hardly supporters of socialism.
John Oliver created his mown church to prove the fraudulent nature of exemptions and the legal definition of church. Watch the video in the link I give below and pay close attention at the 8 minute mark,
http://www.newsweek.com/irs-under-microscope-after-john-oliver-televangelism-segment-365291
Maybe real and honest scientist’s can form an organization to counter the opposing ‘religious views’ .
IRS UNDER MICROSCOPE AFTER JOHN OLIVER TELEVANGELISM SEGMENT
One of those posts and comments that really makes me wish Anthony turned on thumbsUp
A large component of the battle is between the honest able and the amoral mediocrity .
“If a person challenged the claim that humans were causing global warming (AGW), it was assumed they were on the political right. If you supported AGW, then you were on the left.”
I find this ironic, since the AGW story was pushed into international and American politics by right wingers. Margaret Thatcher is the key figure, but Al Gore was also influential. (Gore was a member of the Democratic Party, a right-wing American political party somewhat more right-wing than the British Conservative Party. The American Republican Party is vary far right wing.)
Sundry money-shufflers and the like (including ENRON) also supported the idea. Hard to image they were left-wingers.
…WTF ? … ” Gore was a member of the Democratic Party, a right-wing American political party ” ?..ROTFLMAO !
The Democratic Party meets 11 of the 14 defining characteristics of a fascist party or movement. Republicans meet all 14. They both support militarism and ultra-nationalism. Both oppose human and labor rights. Both are obsessed with “national security” and crime and punishment. Both use scapegoating as a unifying cause. Both support corporate power and an exclusive and controlled mass media. Both maintain and benefit from a corrupt political system based on legalized bribery and fraudulent elections.
The only three points they differ on is sexism, religiousity and disdain for intellectuals, though they may not differ that much on the last one and AGW may make them similar on the religious factor.
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/fasci14chars.html
11 out of 14 is 86% fascist. Democrats are right wing. Any outward appearances of “left-wing” posturing is merely for show to their fanatically devoted followers and is completely negated by their actual behaviour and policies.
..I guess you live in a fantasy fairy wonderland..Talk to any elves lately ?? LOL…NUTS !
I love the way socialists actually believe that they get to define the terms everyone must use.
What are these so called human and labor rights that Republicans and Democrats oppose?
Are they the standard socialist garbage about having a right to steal from others just because you want to?
I suppose that even having a military is proof that you are obsessed with national security?
It must be sad to live a life so devoid of rationality.
“the Democratic Party, a right-wing American political party”
?
Andrew
To a communist, everything else is right wing.
For an example, while he’s probably not a communist, but Richard defines anyone who disagrees with him as right wingers.
If you still disagree with him after being so corrected, you get promoted to the category of far right winger.
PS: Of course socialists always graduate into full blown communism as their favored scheme of wealth redistribution fails and they need ever more control over the masses to prevent them from keeping their own money.
MarkW:
I yet again say that your fascist beliefs are your problem and I object to your smearing me because of them.
Richard
Let’s see. Pointing out that the National Socialists were socialists makes me a fascist.
It sure must be nice living in Richard’s world were everyone you agree with is pure, and those who disagree with you are unalloyed evil.
Richard demonstrates quite ably the mental gymnastics that socialist use to justify the extermination of those who disagree with them.
PS: I see that Richard still isn’t man enough to apologize for his various libels, worse still he doubles down on them.
It must be sad living with so much hatred in your soul.
MarkW:
More fascist propaganda from you.
Socialists accept the definition of the political spectrum that has existed for centuries. As posts in this thread demonstrate, fascists ‘tear up’ existing definitions and try to pretend that their ‘made up’ definitions should be applied.
Richard
MarkW:
I deserve – but don’t expect to get – your grovelling apology for all the fabrications, insults and smears you have posted about me.
I have NOT libeled you.
Firstly,such a libel is an impossibility because a libel can only apply to a named person or persons and you are an anonymous internet troll. Secondly, I have NOT said any falsehoods about you and/or your behaviour.
Richard
MarkW:
Only fascists have a reason to assert the falsehood that naz1s were socialists: they do it as a method to pretend “it wasn’t us”.
Everybody else recognises the truth that the naz1s were – and neonaz1s are – fascists.
And I do NOT declare anybody who disagrees with me as being right-wing. I say that your actions repeatedly have and repeatedly do demonstrate that YOU are a fascist.
Richard
Moral imperative. Secular pretense. Religion trending cult.
Redistributive change. Monopoly formation. Socialism trending leftward.
Science conducted outside of a limited frame of reference, establishing phenomenon that are incompletely characterized and unwieldy. Philosophy trending faith.
Meet the new orthodoxy. Same as the old.
..Liberal LEFT insanity !…
” cash-strapped California is planning a $15 billion water tunnel designed, at least in part, to save a tiny fish that may already be extinct. ”
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/22/critics-calif-water-tunnel-project-claim-its-govt-waste-to-save-tiny-smelt.html?intcmp=hpbt4
I tend to think that Inductivism is at the core of the problem, much more than political orientation.
“The discovery of instances which confirm a theory means very little if we have not tried, and failed, to discover refutations. For if we are uncritical we shall always find what we want: we shall look for, and find, confirmation, and we shall look away from, and not see, whatever might be dangerous to our pet theories. In this way it is only too easy to obtain what appears to be overwhelming evidence in favour of a theory which, if approached critically, would have been refuted.”
― Karl Popper, The Poverty of Historicism
“I was shocked to have to admit to myself that not only had I accepted a complex theory somewhat uncritically, but that I had also actually noticed quite a bit of what was wrong, in the theory as well as in the practice of communism. But I had repressed this – partly out of loyalty to my friends, partly out of loyalty to “the cause”, and partly because there is a mechanism of getting oneself more and more deeply involved: once one has sacrificed one’s intellectual conscience over a minor point one doesn’t wish to give in too easily; one wishes to justify the self-sacrifice by convincing oneself of the fundamental goodness of the cause, which is seen to outweigh any little moral or intellectual compromise that maybe required. With every such moral or intellectual sacrifice one gets more deeply involved. One becomes ready to back one’s moral or intellectual investments in the cause with further investments. It’s like being eager to throw good money after bad.”
― Karl Popper, Unended Quest: An Intellectual Autobiography
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.”
– Leo Tolstoi
Of course pseudo-science based CAGW hypothesis is conveniently adopted as a means to further implementation of socialism on all scales: on levels like; the local community, regional, national and global (international). I do not lay the fundamental cause of the current situation on the ideological activists or radical environmentalists or politicians who adopted the CAGW hypothesis. They are using the most expedient means, of course. I lay the fundamental root cause of the GW situation at the feet of a subjective school of the philosophy of science which, in principle, must have subjective ‘science’ be the means to some other pre-science end; where a pre-science end is required by the broader philosophy that created the subjective school of the philosophy of science.
None of the pseudo-science based CAGW hypothesis could exist without the subjective community of scientists whose ‘work’ forms the pseudo-science based CAGW hypothesis. Yet, I think the broader community of Science has to answer as the cause for the existence of all of it.
I think the broader community of science is the fundamental cause of the dominance of the pseudo-science created CAGW hypothesis because it did not objectively demarcate out of science all of the subjective school of the philosophy of science. Science (with a capital ‘S’) alone is guilty.
John
Real simple, folks.
The Left/Right divide is a sliding scale with “Equal stuff” on the Left and “Individual Liberty/freedom” on the Right.
On the far Left you have Communism with no private-property rights, little individual freedom, with the State controlling all means of production and massive cradle-to-grave rules, regulations and mandates implemented by a gigantic bureaucracy through the initiation of force.
On the far Right is Anarchy with no central government, and individuals cooperating among themselves to their own mutual benefit.
The US was originally founded just to the left of Anarchy with a VERY limited central government that was granted by the People to perform just 18 simple tasks. States and Municipalities were free to implement anything they wanted under their respective State Constitutions, providing they didn’t usurp the 18 powers granted to the Federal government.
The US Constitutional Republic was severely wounded in 1890 with the Sherman Anti-trust Laws and was effectively killed under Wilson in 1913 when he: implemented Federal income taxes, established the Federal Reserve and did away with Senators being appointed by State Legislatures.
The US is now just another failed Socialistic Democracy like the rest of the world, which wastes 40%+ of GDP on government spending, has $20 TRILLION in national debt, $100+ TRILLION in unfunded liabilities, wastes $2 TRILLION/yr on rules and regulation compliance costs, a fiat currency, zero (soon to be negative) interest rates, Obamacare, etc., etc., etc.,
Prior to Wilson, State, Local and Federal spending was only around 7% of GDP…. and the US was: the fastest growing, freest, most affluent, had the highest standard of living, lowest unemployment, largest middle class, highest per capita income, highest saving rates, most technologically advanced, most patents, highest literacy rate, best schools and universities, longest life span, best hospitals, most miles of railroads, the largest economy. etc., the world has ever known. 50% of ALL the world’s goods were made in the US by 1900, yet the US only had 4% of the world’s population… Jeez…
It’s a mess now.
SAMURAI :
As rebuttal of your twaddle I refer you to my rebuttal of similar nonsensein an above post which I copy to here to save anybody needing to find it.
Richard
Fascism is just slightly to the right of Socialism because property rights are still recognized. For both Fascism and Socialism, power and control of its citizens, is still obtained through a massive bureaucracy, high taxes, and a labyrinth of befuddling and counterproductive rules, regulations, mandates and red tape.
Regarding you referring to NAZI Germany as an “extreme right” form of government, don’t be absurd… Need I remind you that “NAZI” was the German acronym for “National SOCIALIST” Party…Oops…
The Leftist historians love to re-write history to suit their political and ideological agendas…
My reply to your original “vanished” reply has also vanished…. LOL..
I was kind, so I don’t know why it was pulled…
I think it may have been pulled because I used the “N-Z-” acronym for the German’s National Socialist Party during the 30’s and 40’s…
My point is that it’s silly to call the… German National Socialists Party a right-wing construct, because, well, it was a type of Socialism; fascism to be exact..
Anyway, in short, just think of the Left/Right divide in terms of government control, power, taxes, agovernment spending as a percentage of GDP, collective rights vs. individual rights, and whether or not the state INITIATES force against its citizens to determine how far Right or Left a political system is… The stronger individual freedoms and individual rights are in terms of life, liberty and personal property and the smaller and less intrusive the government is the more right it becomes until you reach Anarchy, which is the absence of a central government.
Cheers, Richard.
Now that’s funny.
Richard is pointing a post of his which contains nothing more than empty assertions as proof that he is correct.
SAMURAI:
I have refuted your untrue nonsense in a post that has ‘vanished’ but I hope will appear. My ‘vanished’ post refers to my rebuttal in an above post replying to ‘cashman’ who asserted the same basic falsehood that you have repeated.
Richard
Richard–
I obviously didn’t see your “vanished” reply…
Perhaps if you stopped the ad hominem, they wouldn’t get “vanished”…
SAMURAI:
Refuting untrue nonsense is not “ad hominem”.
Richard
Comment to richardscourtney
Richard,
I have to thank you and confess that I did not know about the Methodist church as the genesis of socialism in England, discussed in the link you provided. It has made me think again and has forced me, however uncomfortably, to reappraise my prejudices.
BTW I’m strongly against both the ‘wings’. In my opinion, in practice one is authoritarian but passively elitist, the other is elitist but passively authoritarian.
cheers,
Scott
SAMURAI, in other posts Richard has actually made the claim that socialism promotes freedom.
I guess for those who get to live on the money stolen from others, they have the freedom of not needing to work.
Samurai and MarkW:
Your spouting fascist propaganda falsehoods may provide you with mutual support but adds nothing of value to the thread.
And many will have noticed that in this sub-thread SAMURAI falsely claimed I provided “ad hominem” while MarkW only provides untrue ad hominem.
Richard
I see that Richard is still trying to push the notion that even though the economic policies of the fascists were socialist to the core, they weren’t socialist because he says so.
MarkW:
Yes, Socialism requires the initiation of force against its citizens in order to rob Peter to pay Paul…
There will always be more Pauls than Peters, which is why Socialism will always end in economic collapse and tyranny…
A right can only exist if it doesn’t require the initiation of force or coercion to excercise it.
The American Constitution was originally written to prevent the government from initiating force against its citizens, however, the Constitution no longer exists as written, which is why the US is such an economic and social mess.
MarkW:
I promote truth. You provide lies.
It is not a “notion” that fascists were NOT and are NOT socialists: it is simply true.
Richard
Samurai’s post of February 22, 2016 at 8:30 pm and post of February 23, 2016 at 6:46 am get is exactly right.
Fascism and socialism are just flavors of statism, which all belong on the left wing. Placing two systems that create total state control over their citizens on opposite sides of any political spectrum is idiocy, but this is just a defense mechanism where a socialist tries to pretend the horrors of Nazism aren’t exactly the kind of horrors his ‘system’ always leads to.
shallow pond thinking
waves of ‘original sin’
sediment disturbed
HocusLocus,
Close, but no haiku…
(altho there may be forms I’m not familiar with)
Still, it reads good…