Green Fiasco: 92% Of Swiss Voters Reject Carbon Tax In Referendum

Second worst results in modern Swiss history

Swiss voters Sunday overwhelmingly rejected an initiative that would have scrapped the Alpine country’s value-added-tax system and replaced it with a carbon tax. Roughly 92% of voters opposed the initiative while 8% supported the measure.

The initiative would have encouraged Swiss households to use renewable energy sources, including solar and wind, which would have been exempt from taxes. The initiative, which was introduced by the Green Liberal Party of Switzerland, was designed to help lower carbon emissions and reduce global warming. –Neil Maclucas, The Wall Street Journal, 8 March 2015

teaserbreit

A proposal replacing the main consumer tax with a new levy on non-renewable energy has suffered a blistering defeat in Sunday’s nationwide ballot. The proposal by the Liberal Green Party won only 8% of the vote, according to final official results. Sunday’s result was the second worst in modern Swiss history.Swiss Info, 8 March 2015

h/t to The GWPF

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ConTrari
March 9, 2015 2:09 pm

Dear me. That’s what you get if you let democracy rule. Wolrd leaders, beware!

ShrNfr
Reply to  ConTrari
March 9, 2015 2:15 pm

I am so glad we have enlightened leaders like Joe Biden who know that global warming is as certain as gravity and not peasants like that.

Louis
Reply to  ConTrari
March 9, 2015 2:27 pm

I guess that’s why alarmists admire China so much even though it is the number one emitter of CO2. Now they’ll work even harder to limit democracy so elites like them can rule by fiat like the elites in China.

ShrNfr
Reply to  Louis
March 9, 2015 3:10 pm

Meanwhile in the states, Obama “knows” that Canadian oil sand is “extraordinarily dirty”. http://calgaryherald.com/business/energy/obama-canadian-oil-extraction-is-extraordinarily-dirty I suspect he would not know what bitumen is if he got his arm stuck up to his elbow in the “[trimmed] bitumen baby”. Sadly, these folks got others to vote for them.

Streetcred
Reply to  Louis
March 9, 2015 3:34 pm

I suspect he would not know what bitumen is if he got his arm stuck up to his elbow in the “[trimmed] the bitumen baby”.

There can be no doubt that somebody is manipulating Obama in the same manner.

empire sentry
Reply to  Louis
March 9, 2015 4:57 pm

@ShrNfr but he doesn’t seem to care about it when he and Clinton supported and signed off on the Alberta Clipper pipeline, the very same “dirty corrosive dangerous” Canadian tar sand oil. Pipeline goes through Illinois. What a shocker (not)

Mac the Knife
Reply to  Louis
March 9, 2015 7:44 pm

The proposal by the Liberal Green Party won only 8% of the vote, according to final official results.
I look forward to the day when we can say the same in the US of A.
It will be the end of an error!

Reply to  Louis
March 10, 2015 6:20 pm

It is the conceit of liberals that there is no politics in non-democratic countries. This is not true. There is an enormous amount of politics in China, it is just that most of it is conducted outside of the public eye. The rulers of China have to build coalitions by rewarding friends and punishing enemies just like democracies. They can issue fiats, but getting bureaucrats to implement them is another story. Sorry to bust your bubble.

Jimbo
Reply to  ConTrari
March 9, 2015 3:50 pm

Democracy in action? Was it that thing of the past?

December 30, 2014
Record snow in Zurich, Switzerland
30 Dec 14 -More snow has fallen in the city of Zurich since the weekend as never before in December.This was announced by Meteo Swiss on Tuesday…….

Positive proof of regional global climate warming weather thingey – if you know what I mean. More or less snow is a sure sign of something or other.

Jimbo
Reply to  Jimbo
March 9, 2015 3:52 pm
rtj1211
Reply to  Jimbo
March 10, 2015 3:07 am

Actually, the Swiss winter overall has been distinctly average in terms of snowfall. A few heavy downpours, but broadly the south, slightly above average and the North East/SE slightly below.
See http://www.slf.ch to find detailed diagrams with data to back this up……

Ken
Reply to  ConTrari
March 9, 2015 4:16 pm

92 % is not near the 97%, but probably a better representation.

Hockeystickler
Reply to  Ken
March 9, 2015 5:58 pm

A truer representation, that is not manipulated.

Admad
Reply to  Ken
March 10, 2015 1:13 am

+1. You beat me to it.

emsnews
Reply to  ConTrari
March 9, 2015 4:22 pm

The Swiss sign says ‘Senseless and Expensive’.

NZ Willy
Reply to  emsnews
March 9, 2015 7:56 pm

I think it’s a little stronger, my reading is “Nonsensical and expensive”.

Dawtgtomis
Reply to  emsnews
March 9, 2015 9:28 pm

Are you calling his Swiss cheesey?

Jimmy Haigh.
March 9, 2015 2:14 pm

Well. That’s very encouraging.

klem
Reply to  Jimmy Haigh.
March 10, 2015 9:16 am

I guess the Swiss have a better democracy than I realized. Unfortunately the same can’t be said of Canada.
If their Liberal party is elected next year, they will not have a referendum on a carbon tax, they will simply ram it down their citizens throats whether they want it or not.
And if their Federal government doesn’t do it, their provincial governments will. That’s the Canadian way.

March 9, 2015 2:16 pm

Name you own poison…the lessor of two evils…

Evan Jones
Editor
Reply to  Ben D
March 9, 2015 6:38 pm

the lessor of two evils
If that was a pun, it was a good one.

March 9, 2015 2:17 pm

I can’t quite understand how any specific vote-count on a referendum can be either better or worse than any other election result. If by “second worst” they mean “second worst drubbing”, well, that may be significant, but not in any way intrinsically bad. To me, this result is quite rational, and therefore may be in the running for the best result in Swiss history.

Gentle Tramp
Reply to  Don Newkirk
March 9, 2015 3:02 pm

It was meant that this vote was the Swiss national referendum with the second smallest pro-percentage for a suggested initiative in Switzerland since 1848. But actually it was really the worst result for a popular vote initiative in Switzerland ever, because the only one with a smaller pro-percentage in 1929 did have a counter-proposal by the Government which even the initiators accepted. In addition, the vote for women, which are more likely to vote for green politics, started only after 1971 in Switzerland, so you can’t compare the bad outcome of the 1929 referendum with this smashing defeat of the suggested carbon tax by the Swiss Green Liberal Party (GLP) in 2015.

ShrNfr
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 9, 2015 3:16 pm

The green party in Britain is starting to be a hoot. They want equal “human rights” for all sentient beings including rodents. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/green-party/11456572/Rodents-to-be-given-human-rights-under-Green-Party-plans.html They have 55,000 members. I do, actually, live catch my mice and release them outside when I can, but if they persist, the snap trap is at the ready.

Brute
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 9, 2015 7:35 pm

@ShrNfr
Personally, I think a rational conversation on the topic of sentience is worth having… but not with “greens”. Unfortunately, those folks have no comprehension of the difference between what is desirable and what is possible. To make matter worse, they also have no tolerance of views that diverge from their own. Pity.

Admad
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 10, 2015 1:15 am

Gotta love Greenies

Mr Green Genes
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 10, 2015 1:22 am

@ShrNfr
Their policy leaves me in something of a quandry. If I stop my cat catching (and killing) mice, her rights will be infringed. If I don’t, the mouse’s rights will be equally infringed. Help!

Patrick
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 10, 2015 2:42 am

The Greens should come to Australia or New Zealand to see what a rodent problem can expand to.

D.J. Hawkins
Reply to  Don Newkirk
March 9, 2015 3:07 pm

The sense of the sub-headline is as you state in your second sentence, “second worst drubbing”. I believe you are also correct in suggesting this is an excellent result. I am surprised that the Swiss could harbor as many economic nincompoops as to yield 8% in favor of the proposition.

joelobryan
Reply to  D.J. Hawkins
March 9, 2015 3:32 pm

Switzerland does have a serious heroin drug abuse culture, hidden in plain sight. Estimates of lifetime heroin abuse (current and former) are in the 7% – 9% range of the adult population. Coincidence… probably.
source: http://www.bag.admin.ch/themen/drogen/00042/00624/06044/07683/index.html%3Flang%3Den%26download%3DNHzLpZeg7t,lnp6I0NTU042l2Z6ln1ad1IZn4Z2qZpnO2Yuq2Z6gpJCIdHx9gWym162epYbg2c_JjKbNoKSn6A–&sa=U&ei=TCr-VJSKBMqpogSru4Ew&ved=0CCgQFjAE&sig2=0sKZauOeMkp3j7orW-1s8A&usg=AFQjCNFXISIC12wA72Id8nxHrnCxR9HkTQ

Reply to  joelobryan
March 9, 2015 7:24 pm

Statistically, there must be some slow Swiss who are not junkies. Does it mean even the slow ones thought this was a lousy idea?

Streetcred
Reply to  D.J. Hawkins
March 9, 2015 3:38 pm

Perfect correlation, Joel! We can say with 97% certainty that the ‘pro-carbon tax’ voters are ‘crack-heads’.

michael hart
Reply to  D.J. Hawkins
March 9, 2015 3:55 pm

They like the smack of green discipline.

Evan Jones
Editor
Reply to  D.J. Hawkins
March 9, 2015 6:41 pm

Or maybe the taste?

Lawrie Ayres
Reply to  D.J. Hawkins
March 9, 2015 7:29 pm

Australia apparently has 55% economic nincompoops because that’s how many supposedly want Bill Shorten and the Labor Party to be the next government. Bill wants to re-introduce a carbon tax.

Cam_S
March 9, 2015 2:18 pm

People all over the world do NOT want to pay more taxes. Anybody that preaches that citizens should pay more taxes, is probably getting some of that money.
I like to think “Nobody is more qualified on how to spend my money than me”.

Gentle Tramp
Reply to  Cam_S
March 9, 2015 3:25 pm

Well, the proposed deal of this carbon tax initiative was actually to remove VAT in order to compensate the new carbon (and uranium-) tax. Thus the overall tax burden would have stayed – more or less – the same for the Swiss people. Therefore, this crashing defeat for the anti-CO2 hysteria of the Swiss Greens is even more striking !!!
Obviously the Swiss voters are not a bit afraid of the alleged “man-made” climate change, despite the facts that Switzerland is the host state of IPCC (in Geneva) and that an overwhelming majority of the Swiss media does constantly demonize all CO2 emissions coming from fossil fuels…

Chip Javert
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 9, 2015 5:53 pm

gentle tramp
“…Thus the overall tax burden would have stayed – more or less – the same…” – surely you jest.

Gentle Tramp
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 10, 2015 3:26 am

@ChipJavert
This statement was simply the official goal or claim of the Swiss Green Liberal Party which did propose the initiative. If it could have been a realistic goal is not my problem…

Cam_S
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 10, 2015 7:54 am

@ Gentle Tramp
British Columbia has a carbon tax that is supposed to be “revenue neutral”. It isn’t. BC’s carbon tax has been a burden on tax payers. And, it has not reduced CO2 emissions either. Maybe the Swiss are observant enough to see the example already set.

Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 10, 2015 3:23 pm

@ Cam S and that tax will not only never go away, it will steadily increase.

Babsy
Reply to  Cam_S
March 9, 2015 3:42 pm

No, no, no!! You must let the gubbmint decide! You’ll just waste it! LOL!

nigelf
Reply to  Cam_S
March 9, 2015 5:10 pm

“Any dollar kept from the hands of the government is a dollar well spent”.

Dawtgtomis
Reply to  nigelf
March 9, 2015 9:39 pm

Sounds like something Ronald Reagan would quip.

ARW
March 9, 2015 2:18 pm

now if it was only 97%…..

logos_wrench
March 9, 2015 2:18 pm

Wow now THAT is a consensus! !
All they need to do now is scrap that backassward value added tax nonsense.

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  logos_wrench
March 9, 2015 3:10 pm

The Swiss will now be isolated until they have been inoculated against the thinking contagion.

Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
March 9, 2015 4:53 pm

They already are isolated, and loving every minute of it. Laughing their @rses off at the EU.

ralfellis
Reply to  logos_wrench
March 9, 2015 10:46 pm

Actually, VAT is a good idea.
… It is the only way, in this new ‘free world trade’ environment, that you can tax imports.
… It prevents greedy American multinationals, like Amazon, Starbucks and Google, from offshoring all their profits (and thus their taxes) to Luxembourg or Lichtenstein.
… It taxes products, not jobs.
… It taxes products, not profits.
The only problem with these taxes, is that we give them to numbskulls who waste them on infantile projects. Now that is the REAL problem.
R

old construction worker
Reply to  ralfellis
March 10, 2015 3:03 am

“Actually, VAT is a good idea.”
No, a VAT (Valve Added Tax) is not a good idea. Why? Because like the U.S. tax system taxes are hidden from view and is subject to abuse by politicans (picking winners and losers). Lets say you mine and process iron ore, under VAT a tax rate is added when you sell the ore to the [steel] producer and so on until the product is sold to the end user of goods and services. By that time the total tax rate could be as high as 50% A better idea would scrap the present tax system (U.S.)institute a nation sales tax. One tax rate for all paid at POS.

March 9, 2015 2:22 pm

Billboard: “crazy and expensive”

Gary Pearse
Reply to  wickedwenchfan
March 9, 2015 2:28 pm

“energie – steuer” is interesting because steuer means “levy” or “tax” but it also means steering wheel or helm. A very apt word.

Tim
March 9, 2015 2:22 pm

Good job Switzerland.

Gary Pearse
March 9, 2015 2:24 pm

In parliamentary democracies, this would be “a vote of nonconfidence” in the government and a call for a new election. The real mystery is, if the Swiss voted in the Liberal Green Party in the first place, why did they go against the only policy arrow in its quiver? I guess since the election they’ve seen the light somehow.

ddpalmer
Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 9, 2015 2:43 pm

The Green Liberal Party only controls 14 out of 246 seats, 12 in the national Council and 2 in the Council of States.

Cbeaudry
Reply to  ddpalmer
March 9, 2015 2:57 pm

If they only control 14 seats, then how the hell did they get their retarded pet project to get to a referendum? Isnt that a colossal waste of public funds to vote on something that probably has no chance to pass to begin with?

Bohdan Burban
Reply to  ddpalmer
March 9, 2015 3:17 pm

14 seats out of 246 = 5.7%

Bernd Palmer
Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 9, 2015 3:33 pm

Any individual, any association, any grouping, or any party can collect signatures from Swiss citizens to demand a popular vote (initiative) on any federal subject. If they can collect over 100’000 valid signatures within 18 months, the initiative will be submitted in the form of a legislative text to the Swiss citizens for a federal vote.

Bernd Palmer
Reply to  Bernd Palmer
March 9, 2015 3:35 pm

in this case, the Green Liberal Party initiated the collection of the signatures.

D.J. Hawkins
Reply to  Bernd Palmer
March 9, 2015 4:27 pm

Based on recent elections and the number of registered voters and the turnout for this election, approximately 168,000 voted in support of the proposition. Almost the only folks who voted for it were the ones who signed the petition.

Gentle Tramp
Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 9, 2015 3:48 pm

No mystery at all:
Switzerland is a basic-democratic country. That means, anybody (even a small party like GLP with 5.4 % in the last federal election) can start a national referendum about a political proposal (called an initiative) if they can collect 100’000 approvals for this proposal by Swiss voters.

Evan Jones
Editor
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 9, 2015 6:45 pm

I can’t say, given the scope, I find that notion unappealing. I know a few of These States that could benefit.

March 9, 2015 2:24 pm

Here is my cartoon contribution to Monday Funny:
What a Waste
http://www.maxphoton.com/what-a-waste/
It seems at least the Swiss understand this scheme!

Reply to  Max Photon
March 9, 2015 2:34 pm

Also, for those who missed my Friday Funny cartoon, I think this is apropos for this thread:
Before Nuts
http://www.maxphoton.com/before-nuts/
At least now we know some humans are smarter than cyanobacteria!

phlogiston
Reply to  Max Photon
March 9, 2015 2:50 pm

+1
love it

Streetcred
Reply to  Max Photon
March 9, 2015 3:41 pm

Max, you’re a hoot … keep them commin’.

Greg Cavanagh
Reply to  Max Photon
March 9, 2015 7:12 pm

This one truly is great.

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Max Photon
March 9, 2015 7:46 pm

“Settled Science…” LOL

mpainter
March 9, 2015 2:27 pm

This REAL climate change- political climate. And now the “other” party controls both houses of Congress.
AGW RIP

Bart Tali
March 9, 2015 2:28 pm

Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein! Nein!

Streetcred
Reply to  Bart Tali
March 9, 2015 3:43 pm

Bart, they have two national languages: Non! Non! Non!

Gentle Tramp
Reply to  Streetcred
March 9, 2015 3:58 pm

Streetcred, no they have even 4 national languages:
Nein (German), Non (French), No (Italian), Na (Romansh).

Streetcred
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 9, 2015 5:40 pm

It’ll be nyet soon 😉 LOL

Streetcred
Reply to  Bart Tali
March 9, 2015 3:46 pm

Absolument pas !!

Evan Jones
Editor
Reply to  Bart Tali
March 9, 2015 6:47 pm

How can Nein! be ten?
(Add Nein!?)

mpainter
March 9, 2015 2:30 pm

The Green Liberal Party introduced the measure. Shows you what people think of the Greens.

March 9, 2015 2:32 pm

Reblogged this on SasjaL and commented:
Swedish media will not report this … Anyway, they are now together with politicians to busy promoting radical feminism (leftism) and support IS activists …

Kim Rasmussen
Reply to  SasjaL
March 9, 2015 11:45 pm

Well,these days swedish media will hardly report anything remotely linked to democratic procedure….

markl
March 9, 2015 2:34 pm

So tell me again how the state and US government gets away with the carbon tax on businesses. California started spending the carbon tax revenue before they even collected it. Is the US actually collecting any carbon tax yet?

Reply to  markl
March 9, 2015 2:41 pm

That is somewhat a corollary of Pelosi’s concept,
you know,
we need to spend it so we can collect it.
/grin

Stargazer
March 9, 2015 2:39 pm

“Second worst result”? Nein! Second best result! Yes!

Barbara Skolaut
Reply to  Stargazer
March 9, 2015 2:44 pm

Ausgezeichnet! 😀

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Barbara Skolaut
March 9, 2015 7:49 pm

Gesundheit! 🙂

Reply to  Barbara Skolaut
March 9, 2015 7:51 pm

Good health!   ☺ 

phlogiston
Reply to  Stargazer
March 9, 2015 2:52 pm

Schadenfreude! 🙂

Evan Jones
Editor
Reply to  phlogiston
March 9, 2015 6:50 pm

Das.

George Devries Klein, PhD, PG, FGSA
March 9, 2015 2:41 pm

Just prove what the UN “My World” poll shows, namely that out of 16 criteria of concern, climate change came in dead last. Ditto for the Swiss vote.

March 9, 2015 2:46 pm

The Swiss failed to see this article in The Guardian. It’s by a very enthusiastic man named Bill McKibben.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/mar/09/climate-fight-wont-wait-for-paris-vive-la-resistance
It explains how we should organize a resistance movement to fight global warming, and avoid sea level rise. I wonder if they will call it the Weather Underground?

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  Fernando Leanme
March 9, 2015 3:05 pm

Very clever. Much like!

emsnews
Reply to  Fernando Leanme
March 9, 2015 4:29 pm

Weather Six Feet Underground.

Dave
March 9, 2015 2:55 pm

Big oil must have bought off a lot of voters!

Gunga Din
March 9, 2015 2:55 pm

One thing Switzerland if famous for is political neutrality.
I guess there are a few Greens wondering why it hurts down there. 😎

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Gunga Din
March 9, 2015 7:59 pm

Swiss “neutrality” in WWII was a sham. They knew only too well that if Germany won the war, Switzerland would become a puppet state, at best. They maintained the appearance of neutrality, but hated the Nazis. Germany didn’t invade Switzerland for a number of reasons, including (1) The Swiss could blow up the mountain passes in minutes; (2) Germany was already stretched too thin; (3) German officials (including many high-ranking Wehrmacht officers) had put their savings in Swiss banks; (4) Switzerland made a convenient go-between for dealings with other nations; (5) Up to a point (July 1942??), Switzerland was an exporter of agricultural products to Germany.

Reply to  jorgekafkazar
March 10, 2015 1:55 am

(6) Switzerland together with Sweden, demanded that Jews should have the word “Jew” (“Juden”) included in their passports.

Gentle Tramp
Reply to  jorgekafkazar
March 10, 2015 3:40 am

@jorgekafkazar
And don’t forget: The Swiss delivered weapons and ammunition for the German army in exchange for necessary coal supplies. See e.g. here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oerlikon_20_mm_cannon

MCourtney
March 9, 2015 3:02 pm

“Second worst result”?
Please tell me, I want to know.
What was the worst then?
I’m just very curious. Was it voting to ban triangular chocolate or demanding honesty in banking or ..?

Gentle Tramp
Reply to  MCourtney
March 9, 2015 4:32 pm

Your hilarious fancies are funny but wrong: It was only something about saving the supply of cereals. See here:
http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/pore/va/19290303/
The reason for the smaller support then was simply the fact, that the Government did offer a counter-proposal which was even accepted by the initiators…

M Courtney
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 10, 2015 2:50 am

Gentle Tramp , Thank you.
I was intrigued by the gap.
Second screams “What’s first?”

Robert of Ottawa
March 9, 2015 3:03 pm

The current Liberal government in Ontario is planning on bringing in a new tax revenue stream on the back of an excuse to fight global warming.

JimS
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
March 9, 2015 3:38 pm

The Ontario Government needs to generate more revenue to pay for what it already can’t pay. It’s proposed new pension plan is cute as well.

Robert of Ottawa
Reply to  JimS
March 10, 2015 9:21 am

I bet the new provincial pension fund will buy Ontario government bonds.

clipe
Reply to  Robert of Ottawa
March 9, 2015 4:06 pm

Just as lefties now want to be known as “progressives” taxes are now to known as “revenue tools”.

clipe
Reply to  clipe
March 9, 2015 6:46 pm

taxes are now to be known as
Let it Be

Mac the Knife
Reply to  clipe
March 9, 2015 7:58 pm

The fools that use that terminology are tools also…

n.n
March 9, 2015 3:06 pm

Switzerland is clearly “fly-over-country” or soon will be.

Chip Javert
Reply to  n.n
March 9, 2015 5:58 pm

It’s also a darn nice train-thru country, too.

Mac the Knife
Reply to  n.n
March 9, 2015 8:00 pm

…. And driving and skiing and hiking and eating and drinking and biking and….. aw shucks, you get the idea!

Sleepalot
Reply to  n.n
March 10, 2015 6:34 am

I expect someone will decide Switzerland is unsustainable.

Number 7
March 9, 2015 3:06 pm

Can we have “another” referendum in the UK please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Number 7
March 9, 2015 8:01 pm

Only if it involves torches and pitchforks.

Hot under the collar
March 9, 2015 3:12 pm

Very decisive common sense from the Swiss public.
More common sense, this time suprisingly from the California courts where a UCLA researcher has won a
lawsuit after being fired for whistleblowing about corruption in environmental science research at UCLA:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/415100/victory-academic-freedom-and-defeat-junk-environmental-science-david-french
Incredibly as well as other unethical appointments the fired whistleblower had even pointed out that the lead researcher had a fraudulent degree, the ‘research’ led to new particulate emission laws.
(From link posted by Larry Ledwick in ‘Tips and Notes’)

Dave
March 9, 2015 3:15 pm

Any bets as to if the Guardian reports it?

High Treason
March 9, 2015 3:18 pm

This is why Christiana Figueres, IPCC chief made the comment in the Guardian interview January 13th 2014 that democracy is a poor political system for fighting global warming. Chinese communism is the best model.
The UN, the chief promulgators of the cAGW fraud and one of the main recipients of the money from carbon taxes obviously have no issue of the iron fist of totalitarianism being used to “solve” a non-existent ‘problem.”

Editor
March 9, 2015 3:19 pm

Wow, consider the lack of love for the VAT most days, it must be feeling pretty good this day in the sun.
I figure the US will institute a VAT to get more of that taxed-once Roth IRA money calling out to congresscritters everywhere.

D.J. Hawkins
Reply to  Ric Werme
March 10, 2015 10:24 am

My prediction would be that any such tax will be a straight-forward sales tax. It’s bat-shit crazy calculating VAT, plus it gives government more information about your business than they need.

Ralph Kramden
March 9, 2015 3:23 pm

the proposal by the Liberal Green Party won only 8% of the vote
But on the bright side they did a lot better than I thought they would.

Gentle Tramp
Reply to  Ralph Kramden
March 9, 2015 4:10 pm

Quite wrong! The Swiss Greens hoped for a much bigger support because the lefty Swiss MSM do constantly wail about the “devilish evil CO2 from fossil fuels” and the “terrible, terrible climate disasters” which will come true if we don’t stop our “sinful fossil fuel burning”…
Well, this never-ending Green propaganda in all Swiss MSM seems to be not such effective as the Greens did hope, luckily… 😉

Admin
March 9, 2015 3:26 pm

Go Switzerland 🙂

JohnB
March 9, 2015 3:29 pm

[snip – off topic rant -mod]

JimS
March 9, 2015 3:35 pm

Given the beauty of he Swiss landscape, why would they want wind turbines blocking out the view?

Reply to  JimS
March 9, 2015 4:00 pm

jimS It is not just wind turbines they do not want, recently they banned the building of new mosques.

Gentle Tramp
Reply to  wayne Job
March 9, 2015 4:15 pm

Wrong: The building of mosques is still allowed because of religious freedom. Only the building of minarets – as a symbol of power – was banned by a national referendum.

clipe
Reply to  clipe
March 9, 2015 4:36 pm

If anyone is wondering about above URL, it switches off the annoying Google auto complete.
https://www.google.ca/webhp?complete=0
Filler
https://www.google.com/webhp?complete=0
Filler
https://www.google.co.uk/webhp?complete=0

GregS
March 9, 2015 3:50 pm

If they had voted in favour of the CO2 tax to replace the VAT, what would happen if the CO2 tax was “successful”, and everyone actually did switch to renewable energy sources? Wouldn’t there be no tax at all then? I thought the whole point of a CO2 tax was to stop people emitting the stuff.

emsnews
Reply to  GregS
March 9, 2015 4:36 pm

You have to heat your home and even if you burn wood, the CO2 police come and hassle you. Swiss realize they don’t want to freeze just as I hope people here in Upstate NY realize they face annihilation if the CO2 scheme runs its full course.
These Greens want to get rid of our cows, too!

Evan Jones
Editor
Reply to  GregS
March 9, 2015 6:53 pm

If they switched to renewables, there wouldn’t be a whole lot to tax, anyway.

Neville
March 9, 2015 3:51 pm

This is out there I know, but can Willis or anyone have a look at this article from NASA. Or am I missing something?
NASA states that co2 acts as a thermostat and sends energy/heat back into space. Here’s a quote below———— and here’s the link— http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/sunearth/news/solarstorm-power.html
“This was the biggest dose of heat we’ve received from a solar storm since 2005,” says Martin Mlynczak of NASA Langley Research Center. “It was a big event, and shows how solar activity can directly affect our planet.”
Mlynczak is the associate principal investigator for the SABER instrument onboard NASA’s TIMED satellite. SABER monitors infrared emissions from Earth’s upper atmosphere, in particular from carbon dioxide (CO2) and nitric oxide (NO), two substances that play a key role in the energy balance of air hundreds of km above our planet’s surface.
“Carbon dioxide and nitric oxide are natural thermostats,” explains James Russell of Hampton University, SABER’s principal investigator. “When the upper atmosphere (or ‘thermosphere’) heats up, these molecules try as hard as they can to shed that heat back into space.”
That’s what happened on March 8th when a coronal mass ejection (CME) propelled in our direction by an X5-class solar flare hit Earth’s magnetic field. (On the “Richter Scale of Solar Flares,” X-class flares are the most powerful kind.) Energetic particles rained down on the upper atmosphere, depositing their energy where they hit. The action produced spectacular auroras around the poles and significant1 upper atmospheric heating all around the globe.”

asybot
Reply to  Neville
March 9, 2015 7:31 pm

@Neville last paragraph? was that march 8 2015 or 2005, ( sorry I just read it again it was 2012) An X5 is not all that strong when it gets beyond X10 things will get dicey but the main effects are on our electrical grids and satellites and any astronauts up there but as far as heat built up I doubt it at the X5 level. Most sats have built in safeguards and shut down major components during a radiation storm. They have ample warning with Soho and Lasco sats warning us.

asybot
Reply to  Neville
March 9, 2015 7:43 pm

If I have have math right that they use IE “enough power to to heat every home in NY for 2 years” ,That is less than 0.5% of the total use of power by the population on the planet over the same two years.

Ack
March 9, 2015 3:53 pm

The Swiss got a vote. The people of the US will not.

policycritic
Reply to  Ack
March 9, 2015 4:40 pm

That’s because they (Swiss) have referendums, which Millennials better introduce here to control what Congress does.

Reply to  Ack
March 9, 2015 5:58 pm

I was over there in Basel on business a few months ago, right about the time they had the referendum on spending money to work on population control in developing countries. It didn’t pass, but at least they’re addressing the issue as opposed to the brainless numb nuts who come on here spouting their AGW crap as if there’s no consequences and no downside to telling hordes of poor people that we want to murder them because we are their planet-saving betters. Eh, Brandon Warren, what say you ??.

policycritic
March 9, 2015 4:52 pm

🎵🎵 Oh Happy Day. 🎵🎵 Oh Happy Daaay. 🎵🎵When Jesus walked . . . .

Robert Austin
March 9, 2015 5:47 pm

Hey, they just want to prevent those glaciers from advancing like they did in the Little Ice Age.

CodeTech
March 9, 2015 6:04 pm

My personal respect for Switzerland is now up 22 points.

Cold in Wisconsin
March 9, 2015 6:14 pm

Refreshing my memory a bit about energy sources in Switzerland, it appears that their domestic sources of energy have always been rather green, as they are heavy on hydroelectric (all that beautiful snow melt) and nuclear (green only to some). Purchased energy from outside of Switzerland is either nuclear or more of the naughty carbon variety. So who exactly were they going to tax, and how? Looks like it would have been a tax on imported carbon based energy, which would just make their energy more expensive. Perhaps they are looking at their neighbors the Germans and realizing that they don’t want to emulate them and the negative impacts on their industries. The Swiss tend to be VERY pragmatic, and this seems to be further evidence of that fact.

jones
March 9, 2015 6:40 pm

Is that a consensus?

spaatch
March 9, 2015 6:53 pm
Gentle Tramp
Reply to  spaatch
March 10, 2015 3:57 am

Yes, but a rather small one, lets say in a more symbolically fashion. The now defeated initiative of the Swiss Green Liberals would have been a really brutal levy on all fossil fuels!

Apeheuristic
Reply to  Gentle Tramp
March 10, 2015 5:42 am

OK, so I’ve finally made it to the bottom of the current comments… Coming in on the pragmatic note of the previous commenter.
Before drawing all sorts of sweeping conclusions about this topic, however hilarious some of them might be, there are some things to get straight(er), that I can try to help with, having voted in that election and followed it a bit (and living in Switzerland):
– The “Green Liberal Party” is a right wing version of a green party, which is far more recent and slightly less popular (http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partis_politiques_suisses) that the original and still present green party. It’s the latter which is more similar to what you’d see in other countries, and wanted to present a counter-proposal to the initiative that was more in line with the government. The Green LIberal party has been accused of being a “fake green” or “greenwashed” party.
– Many popular votes in Switzerland fail because of perceived poor details, implementability or clarity, rather than people being against it in principle. This was clearly at least partly true here, as it would have imposed a baffling system with many questions left unanswered. E.g. 7% VAT (that represents, if I recall properly, around 40% of government revenue) would have been removed and to balance the budget, the commonly-repeated estimate was that, for exemple, gasoline would have immediately reached 5 francs (CHF,=USD) per litre (or a bit under 20$ per gallon for the non-metric). Someone else here mentioned the other big question: what happens when consumption of fossil fuels went down as a reaction? Revenue would fall or the tax would have to increase. Thus there were probably too many unknowns, potential pitfall and large, rapid changes for many to stomach. Hence the thrashing. Often laws based on good principles will get retooled, even several times, and finally get voted in. Something this extreme may have been counterproductive to even green causes, however (my opinion).
– As spaatch mentioned just above, Switzerland does have a carbon tax, on fossil fuels (http://www.bafu.admin.ch/co2-abgabe/12357/index.html?lang=fr), though it’s not big, at about 60 CHF/USD per ton of CO2, and, oddly, companies can get exemptions if they consume a lot of them…
Overall, I don’t think there are many conclusions to draw from this vote. I see it as a blip on the radar, similar to other crazily ridiculous things we vote on periodically. Though some of the bad ones of those pass, too, sadly…

Dean Bruckner
March 9, 2015 6:58 pm

It was a good old-fashioned butt-kicking, and could have scarcely happened to more deserving folk. We’ll have to update our list of Chuck Norris superlatives to include this somehow.

Ron
March 9, 2015 7:11 pm

The Koch brothers bought off 92% of the Swiss voters.
Well that’s what I heard somewhere. /s

March 9, 2015 8:08 pm

Although I am not greatly in favor of a carbon tax, I see a reason why the election went the way it did. The proposal was to use a tax on non-renewable energy to replace the usual European value-added tax, which would be completely ditched. I see why voters in a European country would overwhelmingly vote against completely ditching the nowadays-traditional European main means of taxation.

Casper
March 9, 2015 11:15 pm

Carbon Tax = Carbon Currency for banksters. Nothing more, nothing less.

knr
March 10, 2015 2:11 am

Green Fiasco: 92% Of Swiss Voters Reject Carbon Tax In Referendum
And now you know , if you did not already . when the greens try to get such idea imposed without the public having a say so. Their view of democracy has always been that its good idea once everyone agrees with them , until they people should be told what to do ‘for the shake of the planet ‘

Phaedo
March 10, 2015 2:36 am

I think I’ll move to Switzerland.

bushbunny
Reply to  Phaedo
March 12, 2015 9:49 pm

Switzerland in cold Phaedo, and will get colder if the sun’s orbit throws us into another ice age or mini ice age. Nice place though to ski.

Robert of Ottawa
March 10, 2015 7:47 am

Congrats to the Swiss. Unfortunately, here in Ontario, the provincial government is planning to introduce a new tax – to save the children, of course. They are deciding whether it will be a “Carbon” tax (I personally do not want the price of pencils to rise) or a Cap and Trade extravaganza.
Questions are: How much colder will this make Ontario and how much damage will it do to the economy. Also, where are the thieves Liberals going to stash the loot?

March 10, 2015 8:09 am

A Carbon Tax? When, thanks to the Neue Zürcher Zeitung the Swiss, and the rest of the world, know that this would mean being part of the world’s biggest political and intellectual fraud?
To recap, please see NZZ of 14 November 2010, Ottmar Edenhofer interview. Links and wider explanations at http://tinyurl.com/naexuho

SanityP
March 10, 2015 8:11 am

I think this is an excellent result. What is there not to like?

Resourceguy
March 10, 2015 11:43 am

They should have done the Obama-style end around with excuses later approach. This head-on free choice approach is not going to work for them.

Resourceguy
March 10, 2015 1:26 pm

The Swiss would do a lot better with a tax on their constitutionally sanctioned global tax cheating in place of taxing their own energy use or a VAT tax on their own consumption.

Bernd Palmer
Reply to  Resourceguy
March 10, 2015 1:53 pm

There is no global tax cheating in Switzerland.
First because for the major taxes the Swiss have their say if their should be a tax and how much. They don’t need to evade their own tax.
Second the original Swiss mentality is that you pay your debts. Do you know of any other nation where you can order something by phone and only have to pay within 30 days after you have received the item?

H.R.
Reply to  Bernd Palmer
March 14, 2015 9:44 am

Bernd Palmer
March 10, 2015 at 1:53 pm

Do you know of any other nation where you can order something by phone and only have to pay within 30 days after you have received the item?

U.S. of A. – I do that nearly on a daily basis here in the U.S. for business and personal purchases and I’m not talking giving a credit card# with the order. Not criticizing or arguing with you. Your comment just kind of made me think, “Huh?!?” What is he talking about?” I’m probably not the only one who is puzzled by your remark.

Cam_S
March 10, 2015 8:28 pm

New poll from Nanos Research.
Canadians don’t want to pay a carbon tax either. (17 pages)
Canada doing a poor job at trying to reduce greenhouse gases
Less than half would support taxes on fossil fuels such as gasoline or heating oil to reduce greenhouse gases
http://www.nanosresearch.com/library/polls/POLNAT-S15-T636.pdf

Ed Zuiderwijk
March 11, 2015 6:01 am

Notice the similarity of the words “teuer” (= expensive) and “steuer” (= tax).
These guys have their nomenclature spot on!

Danny
March 24, 2015 7:28 am

we already have a carbon tax. the rejection of replacing the vallue added tax with an energy tax has nothing to do with AGW denial. typical WIWT dishonesty.
http://www.bafu.admin.ch/co2-abgabe/index.html?lang=en

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