Mann tries to revive his dead hockey stick with a press release

From Penn State (via Eurekalert) and the ‘bad science keeps coming back from the dead’ department, comes this laughable PR hack which is disguised as a plug for Dr. Mann’s book. This cartoon from Josh sums it up well.

https://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/game_of_thrones_scr1.jpg

Public Release: 14-Feb-2015

Iconic graph at center of climate debate

The “Hockey Stick” graph, a simple plot representing temperature over time, led to the center of the larger debate on climate change, and skewed the trajectory of at least one researcher, according to Michael Mann, Distinguished Professor of Meteorology, Penn State.

“The “Hockey Stick” graph became a central icon in the climate wars,” Mann told attendees today (Feb. 11) at the annual meeting of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. “The graph took on a life of its own.”

Mann and his coauthors, Raymond S. Bradley and Malcolm K Hughes, created the graph for a paper, “Northern hemisphere temperatures during the past millennium: Inferences, uncertainties, and limitations” which appeared in Geophysical Research Letters in 1999. In 2001, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change published a version of the graph in its report, pushing the hockey stick depiction of temperature trends to the forefront of the climate change discussion.

“There have been dozens of other climate reconstructions, all very similar to ours,” said Mann. “They are based on different data and different approaches, and of course everyone thinks their approach is best, but they all imply that the modern warming spike is unique. And still the Hockey Stick remains the iconic graph.”

The original paper and the IPCC report demonstrated that temperature had risen with the increase in industrialization and use of fossil fuels. The researchers’ conclusion was that worldwide human activity since the industrial age had raised carbon dioxide levels, trapping greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and warming the planet.

But the iconic graph engendered attacks, including calls for into the validity and veracity of the research. Subsequent investigations by the National Academy of Sciences, The National Science Foundation and Penn State all found the research both honest and solid.

Mann is quick to point out that there are two entirely distinct debates taking place when it comes to climate change research. One is the legitimate scientific challenging of research results that is part of the give and take of the scientific method all done in good faith to help advance the forefront of our knowledge. The other consists of bad faith attacks on scientists and the science, intended to advance some agenda — political, religious or economic.

Mann was thrust into a larger-than-life role in the climate debate because of the notoriety of the Hockey Stick Graph. As a scientist he was dragged along with his research to a place most scientists do not go and generally do not want to go.

“I was forced to take on a role very different than the one that I had envisioned,” said Mann.

In 2012, Mann published “The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines,” (Columbia University Press) describing his experiences as a reluctant figure in the climate change debate.

“This was not what I envisioned I would be doing when I chose to be a scientist, but over time I have grown to embrace this role,” said Mann. “I feel privileged to be in a position to inform the larger public discourse over what may be the greatest challenge civilization has faced.”

###

Disclaimer: AAAS and EurekAlert! are not responsible for the accuracy of news releases posted to EurekAlert! by contributing institutions or for the use of any information through the EurekAlert system.

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February 15, 2015 6:11 pm

@GuarionexSandoval.
You say:
“Please tell me that Mann, et al, weren’t stupid enough to have concluded such boneheaded things: ”
“1. That CO2 traps greenhouse gases,” No, they say CO2 absorbs and re-radiates IR thermal RADIATION from Earth. CO2 doesn’t ‘trap greenhouse gases’. It IS a greenhouse Gas. FAIL #1.
” 2. That it traps them in a concentration-dependent manner,” Still wrong.CO2 doesn’t trap any gases. FAIL #2.
” 3. That greenhouse gases can be trapped at all,” FAIL #3
” 4. That they can be trapped in the atmosphere.” FAIL #4
” 5. That contrary to over 500,000 years of data showing that temperature increases precede increases in atmospheric CO2 by 600-1000 years, they could maintain that human generated CO2 is the cause of contemporary warming.” FAIL #5. Shakun (2012) showed that 90% of the Milankovitch cycle temperature increase occurred AFTER the initial CO2 increase from temperature rise. In the modern day, its 100%.
ALL FAIL.
So WHO is stupid enough to believe #1 – #5 ??

Reply to  warrenlb
February 15, 2015 7:09 pm

warrenlb, empirical data shows conclusively that changes in Global T precedes changes in CO2. That fact alone debunks your magic gas belief. Just saying, “Shakun (2012)” is just more of your constant and meaningless appeals to authority. Post verifiable, testable data. IF you can.
I have posted numerous charts reflecting that data, showing that ∆T is the cause of ∆CO2. Perhaps you can post a data-based chart showing that CO2 is the cause of changes in global temperature, on time scales from years, to hundreds of thousands of years. Can you? I don’t think so.
I’ll wait here, while you scramble back to SkS for some more misinformation.

February 15, 2015 9:04 pm

By coincidence I had Mann’s hickey stock … err … hockey stick waved in my face just today! I was having coffee at my sister’s cafe, and one of the regulars — an engineer in his early 70s — passive-aggressively confronted me, apparently angered by the cartoons on my eponymous website poking fun at warmerers.
He started a conversation ‘just wondering’ what it is about Tea Party types and their conspiracies, such as not believing in the moon landing, or evolution, and so on. He then zeroed in on why they (meaning I) “deny the science of climate change.”
“Haven’t they seen the hockey stick?”
“Don’t they know that 97% of scientists believe in climate change? I just don’t understand science deniers.”
He got quite a jolt when I told him I was surprised that a man of his station would stoop to the logical fallacies of argumentum ad populum compounded by argumentum ad verecundiam. Two strikes!
I then asked him why it is that every commercial greenhouse operator on earth, growing from pot to posies, fortifies the greenhouse with 5x the CO2. Hmmm?
Non-confrontational types hold it all in; he was trembling so hard I thought he was going to have a stroke. (I felt bad afterwards.)
Thank you Mann. You’ve polluted innocent peoples’ minds. In a just world, your stupid hockey stick would be retired to your penalty box.

Chris Schoneveld
February 15, 2015 10:53 pm

A good cartoon needs hardly or no words. Josh’s cartoon has too much text and is reminiscent of someone who tries to explain a joke.

Harry Passfield
Reply to  Chris Schoneveld
February 16, 2015 2:17 am

Chris: If we take your point a bit further, one could argue that a good scientist needs no flummery or grand job titles. I mean, how many ‘Distinguished Professors’ do you know with that title? Is it a separate pay grade – above standard professors and slightly below God?
And then there’s this from Mann:

One is the legitimate scientific challenging of research results that is part of the give and take of the scientific method all done in good faith to help advance the forefront of our knowledge. The other consists of bad faith attacks on scientists and the science, intended to advance some agenda — political, religious or economic.

What projection! What utter hubris! Have you ever read some of the attacks Mann has made on his fellow scientists? If ever there was anywhere that “needs hardly or no words” it’s in Mann’s own defence of his science/alchemy.

Novantae
February 16, 2015 2:12 am

Have to say, when I saw the headline to this article I assumed it was (euphemistically) about impotence. Then I read the article and realised I was right.

johann wundersamer
February 16, 2015 3:40 am

started to save the world.
which didn’t need him, disliked him:
ended as the leader of a ‘Brandon Gates and the like’ gang.
tragic. happless, the vaults of non science.
the remnants of IPCC’s midsummer nights dream.
“This was not what I envisioned I would be doing when I chose to be a scientist, but over time I have grown to embrace this role,” said Mann.
Embrace, Mann. The Gates Gang role fits!
/ chose to be a scientist. you know better now! /
Regards – Hans

johann wundersamer
February 16, 2015 4:19 am

Mann, @Brandon Gates –
google ‘armselig’.
Hans

Reply to  johann wundersamer
February 16, 2015 6:58 am

@WUWT Prowlers –
Google ‘Dunning-Krueger’.

RACookPE1978
Editor
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 9:29 am

Warrenlb
Google 1.3 trillion dollars in new taxes for Big Government, who is the one paying for the dunning of krueger rands from the public using the Big Government money paid to Big Government “scientists”, but only renewed when they reproduce the results desired by Big Government and Big Finance to generate 30 trillion in carbon futures trading.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 9:50 am

RACookPE1978
..
You seem confused.
This is a science site.
However, political science isn’t really a “science”

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 2:24 pm

And RACook just exposed the root of his belief system: He REJECTS the findings of Science with respect to AGW, NOT because he’s analyzed the Science, but BECAUSE he fears the Big Government solutions he believes will be necessary.
I think an apt description of this thought process is indeed ‘Dunning -Krueger’.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 2:30 pm

Excellent point Warren

John M
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 2:54 pm

As long as we’re talking hidden agendas, I think “watermelon” is a better descriptor.
Do you guys really think only conservatives let their politics guide the “best” policies to pursue?

mpainter
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 3:09 pm

RACook knows what he is talking about.
But you cannot comprehend warrenlb, rodmol, gates, rooter, flash man, none of you. It’s way over your heads.

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 3:45 pm

warrenlb mentions ‘Dunning-Krueger’ so very often that there is no doubt it is based on his psychological projection: imputing his own faults onto others.
warrenlb plays a lay psychologist here, too, stating that RACook:
“…REJECTS the findings of Science with respect to AGW, NOT because he’s analyzed the Science, but BECAUSE…”&blah, blah, etc. But how would warrenlb know? Is warrenlb a Psychiatrist or a Psychologist? Or is that comment just more insulting commentary because warrenlb cannot refute what RACook wrote?
Everything that readers have been saying about warrenlb is turned right around by him, and directed at skeptics. RACook has analyzed these issues far more thoroughly than warrenlb could hope to. Cook reads literally hundreds of relevant papers, both free and paywalled — but when he recently asked warrenlb how many papers warrenlb reads each month, the answer was… *crickets* As usual, warrenlb ignores questions that he can’t or won’t answer.
Another question that neither warrenlb, nor Rodney Molyneux, nor Gates, nor any other of their ilk can answer is: where are the measurements quantifying AGW?
That question is central to the entire debate. Because if they cannot answer it [and they can’t], then everything they write is nothing more than conjecture. When push comes to shove, they collectively fall on their faces. All they are doing is trying to rationalize their opinions, without credible facts.
This site has always had a few good, intelligent warmists who try to support the cAGW conjecture, such as Nick Stokes, Phil., John Finn, Nevin, Joel Shore, Steven Mosher, and others. They are critical thinkers, who never stoop to name-calling, insults, or pejoratives [with the exception of Shore, who routinely labels those he disagrees with as “right-wing ideologues”]. They use facts and testable data. But those were the old days.
Recently, we have been infested with the likes of warrenlb, rodmol, Gates, and a few others like them, who don’t think. They just stir the pot. They never answer questions, while incessantly asking questions. But when those questions are answered with data and evidence, they either nitpick and cherry-pick — or if the answer is irrefutable, they change the subject. They deflect. Misinformation is their stock in trade. Even more despicable, they constantly bad-mouth our host, and other skeptics here on blogs like Hotwhopper, SkS, and other no-account, censoring venues.
The original warmists here were always willing to discuss science, without the name-calling. But this new bunch are disciples of Saul Alinsky, who wrote:
“Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it… isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)”
Thus, any article written by Lord Monckton is filled with ad hominem attacks. The alarmists named here cannot refute what he writes, so they play the man, not the ball.
Speaking for myself, I’ve been called “stupid” recently more times than I can count. I’ve been personally criticized for my grammar — even though the critic [rodmol] was flat wrong, as many other readers showed him. I have been repeatedly labeled “dishonest” as a vicious tactic; posted repeatedly when the Alinsky acolyte cannot refute my facts and evidence.
Saul Alinsky was right, name-calling is cruel and effective. For one thing, they are trying to goad skeptics into responding the same way. But again speaking for myself, I’m not giving them that. I don’t have to; I have the facts and evidence that they lack. That’s all I need.
warrenlb has been commenting a lot lately, saying that skeptics are victims of the Dunning-Kreuger effect. He does it again here. That isn’t just nonsense; that is psychological projection, as anyone who understands the DK effect can see.
If it were not for warrenlb’s projection, and his endless Appeal to Authority fallacies, and the ad hominem fallacies that most alarmists use constantly, warrenlb and the others wouldn’t have much of anything to say. They certainly do not have adequate facts or evidence to back up their arguments. Planet Earth is showing their beliefs to be foolish. The global climate over the past century and a half has been extremely benign. It’s crazy, but they are unhappy about that!
The old warmists here made people think — a good thing. This new crowd doesn’t do that, because their arguments mostly consist of insults. They are losing the debate, and they know it. But rather than being stand-up guys, they continue to incessantly argue, using pejoratives and fallacies. I won’t copy their name-calling; skeptics generally are not haters like they are. But I will point out the plain fact that they are arguing like that because they cannot refute what skeptics say. Alarmists have lost the debate. They cannot overcome skeptics’ data and reasoning. So they are just being bad losers. But losers, nonetheless.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 3:57 pm

“Planet Earth is showing their beliefs to be foolish.”

Foolish??????
In fact 2014 showed pleny.
Which year before 2014 in the instrumental record was warmer than 2014 ?
..
Which one dbstealey?
The earth seems to be warming up just like AGW says it should be.

catweazle666
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 4:12 pm

“@WUWT Prowlers – Google ‘Dunning-Krueger’.”
You’re a few ergs short of a joule, innit?

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 4:32 pm

rodmol says:
Which year before 2014 in the instrumental record was warmer than 2014 ?
Satellite data is the most accurate, so why don’t you count the years that were warmer than 2014:
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/rss/from:1998/plot/rss/from:1998/trend
This was covered just last month:
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/01/21/2014-among-the-3-percent-coldest-years-in-10000-years
Even ZeroHedge had an article about the bogus HOTTEST YEAR EVAH!!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-02-01/hottest-year-record-think-again-meet-seasonally-adjusted-seasons
Then there is this comparison:comment image
See? Plenty of recent years were warmer than 2014.
Here is another debunking of the “Hottest year EVAH!!
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/01/20/2014-the-most-dishonest-year-on-record
And the probability that 2104 was the warmest ever is debunked by none other than NOAA and NASA:comment image
Any other questions?

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 4:43 pm

You left out the JMO, the WMO and Hadly Met office. Each one agrees with both NOAA and NASA..
..
But then, we all know that satellites don’t measure surface temps, so you lose on this one.

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 4:57 pm

rodney molyneux, AKA: “David Socrates” says:
… so you lose on this one.
Thank you for your opinion, Socrates. As usual, it is baseless. It’s like me saying, “I am King of the World!!” It sounds fatuous and ridiculous, just like your false assertion.
Your alarmist clique is getting stomped in this debate. Why? Because you cannot even produce one measurement of AGW. Thus, it is nothing but a conjecture. Even if it’s a fact, so what? AGW is simply too small to matter.
Socks, I’ve told you repeatedly that you don’t have your bigboy pants yet. All your comments are assertions. If you want to discuss evidence, then post evidence [and please, no cut ‘n’ paste jobs. You don’t understand enough of the subject yet to know what you’re posting].
Satellite data is far more accurate than data like HadCRUT3, SST, or other cherry-picked temperatures. You don’t understand that yet, but maybe you will some day. Also, satellite data is not very much different from other temperature data. The alarmist crowd likes to show scary charts based on tenths and hundreths of a degree. But the error bars are greater than that, so it is meaningless.
Finally, NASA, NOAA, and other government agencies routinely fabricate past temperatures. That has been established so conclusively that it is no longer questionable:comment imagecomment imagecomment image
Only the most naive, credulous readers still believe the government’s temperature record. Do you still believe them, Rodney? Really?

mpainter
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 5:00 pm

Satellite temp data is more reliable than instrument temps, which have multiple problems of reliability and error bars which nullify any usefulness.

mpainter
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 5:06 pm

Rodney
You should pay attention to dbstealey. He is only trying to help you.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 5:08 pm

First of all you “lose” because you didn’t answer the question.
Secondly, you posted this “chart”
..comment image
….
Which compares a “projection” to RSS, and doesn’t answer the question.
..
Thirdly, the satellite “record” is shorter than the instrumental record, so it is deficient in that respect.

Fourth, RSS and UAH, both using the same source data don’t show the same trend, and neither are calibrated against actual surface temps.
..
So, again, which year in the record was warmer than 2014?

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 5:13 pm

Rodney,
I’ll let you know when you can put on your bigboy pants. You don’t seem to be able to understand that it’s a model projection. Really, you just don’t understand.
[And before I answer any of your questions, you might try answering mine.]

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 5:13 pm

“Finally, NASA, NOAA, and other government agencies routinely fabricate past temperatures”

Can you post a reference to a peer reviewed paper that discusses the “fabrications?”

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 5:21 pm

Dbstealey

“you can put on your bigboy pants.”

Do you know where the following quote comes from ?
..
“Respect is given to those with manners”

Try to show some manners please.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 5:23 pm

“You don’t seem to be able to understand that it’s a model projection”

I understand that a “model projection” doesn’t answer the question I asked. You seem to be deflecting.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 5:25 pm

Dbstealy.
..
Nice attempt at gish gallop, but try to answer the question.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 5:29 pm

Mpainter
..
“Satellite temp data is more reliable than instrument temps”

Except for when there are clouds.
A thermometer underneath a cloud can still measure the surface temperature. The satellite can’t measure when a could is in the way. So much for “reliable”

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 6:40 pm

@socks,
You don’t seeem to be able to understand the simplest of concepts.
I asked you questions. You ignored them. Now you demand that I answer your questions.
No problem. I can run circles around you. But try to understand this concept:
I ask you questions.
You answer those questions.
Then you ask me questions.
I run circles around you.
Simples. Try it. Answer my questions first, Socrates. That’s the deal.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 6:45 pm

You said…..
““Planet Earth is showing their beliefs to be foolish.”
Too bad 2014 make YOU look foolish.

It was the warmest year in the instrumental record.
..
If you think otherwise, tell us all WHICH YEAR was warmer?

Show us all that NASA, NOAA, JMO, WHO and Hadley are wrong.
..
Which year?

mpainter
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 6:50 pm

More reliable because the data is more trustworthy. Clouds or no, satellite data is more complete, much more so than instrument.
Of course, I understand that the reliability of satellite data makes it undesirable for some purposes, such as proclaiming that it is a “38% chance that 2014 was the hottest year ever”.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 6:52 pm

Opps…typo WMO, not WHO

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 7:12 pm

Rodney Molyneux,
Four (4) comments in a row?? Your head is going to explode.
You say:
It (2014) was the warmest year in the instrumental record.
Wrong, as usual. I posted verifiable links showing you are flat wrong about that. Your response? Another baseless assertion. Therefore, you fail.
Next:
…tell us all WHICH YEAR was warmer?
I already posted that information, from several different credible sources. But you don’t like it, so you ignored it. Therefore, you fail.
Next:
Show us all that NASA, NOAA, JMO, WHO and Hadley are wrong.
Once again: WAKE UP. I posted that information. It is not my fault if you can’t comprehend it. Again: fail.
Next: you don’t seem to understand the extent of fraud. Here is the government’s fabricating of the temperature record. Notice that the invented changes ALWAYS result in a scarier rise in temeperatures:comment image
Here is more evidence of ‘data’ manipulation:comment image
Your mind is closed, but for other readers, here is more damning evidence of fraud:comment image
Here is an easy to read chart, where anyone can count the number of years that were warmer than 2014:comment image
Note that the chart is made up of data from GISS, HadCRUT, and satellite data [the most accurate data there is]. There are plenty of years that exceeded 2014 — as anyone whose mind is not closed can see.
Next, here is a NOAA chart showing global temperature anomalies from 1954 – 2014. Anyone can see that 2014 was on the cool side:comment image
Finally, here is the true ‘Hockey Stick’:comment image
Next, you ineptly try to claim that I’m not “polite”. Allow me to set you straight. You say:
Try to show some manners please.
Here are some ‘manners’: You answer my questions, because I asked first. That’s polite.
I then answer your questions. Got it?
Also, I note that you are A-OK with my being repeatedly called “stupid” for no reason. And I’ve been called “dishonest” many, many times lately, simply because I posted facts, and your pal didn’t. Or couldn’t.
Tell me: how does that fit into your concept of being “polite”? Did you get on his case for those insults?
Next, you came out of nowhere a few days ago, and attacked me personally — not for science — but for what you thought was bad grammar!
I didn’t join in on piling onto your mistake. But lots of other readers did, and they showed where you were wrong. Would you like me to link to that particular thread? Say the word, and I will. Maybe I will anyway, if you keep up your ‘polite’ nonsense.
Next, I notice that your spelling and grammar criticism is aimed only at skeptics. So it’s not really about spelling or grammar at all. Is it?
No, it’s just your typical alarmist ad hominem attack. You are playing the man, not the ball [science]. Now tell us: is that polite? Well? Is it?
Next, you write:
Nice attempt at gish gallop, but try to answer the question.
I’ve shown beyond any doubt that the ‘gish gallop’ belongs to you exclusively. You own gish gallop. So before you pontificate on ‘manners’, get some for yourself. Because so far, you have none at all.
You can start by answering my questions. Then I’ll answer yours. That’s ‘polite’. You may start with this one:
Can you produce any measurements quantifying the fraction of AGW, out of total global warming?
Good luck with that question. I’ll wait here, while you trot back to Hotwhopper, or wherever you get your misinformation from.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 7:20 pm

Dbstealey

You post links to blogs.
You post charts from blogs.

Do you realize that science is not done on blogs?

All you need to do fill in the blanks “According to ______ the year _____ was the warmest in the instrumental record”

Simple isn’t it?
..
Bear in mind you have NOAA, NASA, JMO, WMO and Hadley to contend with.
..
Which authority will you cite as evidence for the year you assert beats out 2014?

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 7:22 pm

PS dbstealey
..
Keep in mind that when you post a chart of a time series with anomalies, that to get the “warmest year” you need to do an integration over the 12 month period. So having the highest peak in a time series isn’t necessarily considered the warmest YEAR.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 7:25 pm

PS dbstealey
..
You are posting a lot of charts showing US temperatures.

Do you understand that there is a difference between the USA temperatures and global temperatures?

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 7:30 pm

Dbstealey
..
You post “Next, here is a NOAA chart showing global temperature anomalies from 1954 – 2014. Anyone can see that 2014 was on the cool side:”
comment image
….
Now….read the chart very very very very carefully
..
Especially the part that says, “Heating degree days above (+)/ below (-) average for the same quarter over previous five years”
..
THAT CHART DOES NOT SHOW ANOMALIES FOR 1954-2014
You’re busted.
* * * * * * * * * *
(Reply: No, he is correct. A deviation is an anomaly. -mod)

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 7:47 pm

@rodmol:
You’re busted?? You could not be more lame. YOU look at the chart again. You don’t even understand what you don’t know. And you’re still hiding out from answering my questions. I know why: because you are not capable of answering.
You say:
Do you realize that science is not done on blogs?
I’ll answer that question, because I’m a nice guy. But that’s it. You always tuck tail and run away from answering any questions of mine — while you incessantly pester me, demanding that I must answer your questions. That is immature and childish.
First off, you’re still not wearing your bigboy pants. You are an immature noob. A novice. A know-nothing. Worse, you are not interested in learning anything at all. If you were, you would have a ‘polite’ discussion, instead of impotently trying to dominate the conversation with your baseless assertions. You’re not a big boy, so you fail again.
As a matter of fact, science is done on blogs. If not, why are you here? To emit your lame propaganda? You clearly are not here to learn anything.
FYI: there is much better and more honest peer reviewed science being done here than at Scientific American, or lots of other propaganda outlets. Eminent scientists are discussing facts and evidence. But as we saw in the Climategate email dump, the pal review process is hopelessly corrupted. If you don’t know that, then you know nothing.
Regarding your other inept, lame questions: I have answered every one of them, chapter and verse. I have posted corroborrating links verifying all my statements. You, on the other hand, post only your bogus assertions. That’s why you fail.
If the CAGW scare had not colonized your mind, you would see that. But you keep asking the same ignorant and lame questions over and over. I keep giving you numerous links from various credible sources DEBUNKING your Chicken Little nonsense, but your response is always the same. You are incapable of learning anything.
When you grow up and put on your bigboy pants, come on back. With maturity will come the understanding that if you answer my questions, I will answer yours. Keep in mind that you owe me some answers. I asked you first, remember, Mr. “Polite”?
So instead of hiding out and running interference, try to man-up and post some answers — if you can. It’s the first step toward getting your bigboy pants.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 7:54 pm

The chart is of heating degree days.
It is not a chart of global temperature anomalies.
..
You’re busted.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 7:56 pm

“As a matter of fact, science is done on blogs.”

HA HA HA
..
Too funny

You can’t be serious?

HA HA HA

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 7:56 pm

Wrong again, SOCRATES. But not surprising, since you don’t have your bigboy pants yet.
Now, what about my questions — mr. “Polite”?
heh
[PS: Your comments look too much like the sockpuppet “David Socrates”, to be coincidence. I’m not stupid, socks. You’re just a sockpuppet. Aren’t you?

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 7:58 pm

Another excellent joke Mr dbstealey.
..
“and more honest peer reviewed science being done here”

This place is peer reviewed?
HA HA HA HA

Can you try and be serious please.

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 8:03 pm

Still no big boy pants, I see.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 8:04 pm

“As a matter of fact, science is done on blogs.”
“Wrong again. But not surprising since you don’t have your bigboy pants yet.”

So tell me dbstealey, if as you claim, science is done on blogs, why did Monckton go all the way to China to publish his paper? He could have just published it here.

I guess science isn’t done on blogs, or at least Monckton doesn’t think so.

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 8:24 pm

Ah. More questions.
Buzz off, pest, until you answer a couple of my questions.
I asked first, remember.
In the mean time this is an interesting thread.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 8:27 pm

Impressive.

You think heating degree days are “global temperatures”

You think science is done on blogs.
..
Yup…….2014 was the warmest year on record per NOAA, NASA, Hadley, JMO and WMO.
..
Too bad that reality is hard for you to deal with.

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 8:28 pm

Little boy, you are incapable of learning.
Until you start answering questions, buzz off.
Remember: I asked them first, pest.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  johann wundersamer
February 16, 2015 8:34 pm

I don’t care to learn from someone that thinks that science is done on blogs.
I don’t want to learn from someone that cant tell the difference between heating degree days and a temperature anomaly.
Guess you don’t even know what year was warmer than 2014.

Time to start educating Mr Dbstealey.

1) Science is done by publishing the results of one’s investigations in a peer reviewed journal. Posting on a blog is not the way you do science.

Now, see if you can learn THAT.

RACookPE1978
Editor
Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 16, 2015 8:49 pm

Big Government selects, previews, controls, regulates, rewards, and promotes the only people who they decide they will pay who to select for the Big Science it wants to promote.
Anonymous pal-reviewed so-called “Big Science” is worth only the paper that it is printed on. For recycling.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 16, 2015 8:52 pm

Science journals are not run by the government. They are private capitalistic enterprises. You have something against a publisher making a profit?

Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 16, 2015 8:59 pm

He calls rent-seeking and feeding at the taxpayer trough “making a profit”, heh. It’s amusing seeing how little rodmol understands of the real world.
And yet another silly question from a self-identified loser.
Did I say a loser?
Let’s listen to a quote from someone who still isn’t wearing his bigboy pants yet:
“First of all you “lose” because you didn’t answer the question.”
~rodmol

Thus, rodmol is a self-described loser. Rodney has consistently refused to answer any questions at all. Not one. So by his own reckoning, he is a loser.
But we already knew that.
I can tell little Rodney why he won’t answer the questions I asked:
Because he can’t! He is incapable. He doesn’t have the knowledge. He’s still not wearing bigboy pants, see?
I asked my questions first. The time stamps show that. Now it’s his turn to answer, but he refuses.
Further, I politely answered the little boy’s questions, even though it wasn’t my turn. I’m a nice guy like that; I like to accommodate children. Especially to help dispel their ignorance [and I note that a mod has commented a little upthread].
But fair is fair, correct? The young’un owes me some answers. By his own criteria, he is a loser for not answering. <— He said it, no? And he will remain a loser, so long as he refuses to answer. Maybe well beyond that!
This amuses me greatly. I suppose I’m a bad person for being amused, and for having fun at the expense of the clueless. Playing Whack-A-Mole with folks who are too immature to answer is one of my faults. I like to pull the wings off flies, too. ☺☺☺

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 16, 2015 9:09 pm

1) Manners dbstealey. It is not polite to call people names.
2) You say “He doesn’t have the knowledge” Really?…..This assertion coming from someone who thinks science is done on blogs? You sir are the one lacking “knowledge” for if you had some, you would not have made such a ridiculous statement.
3) “I asked my questions first.” No, I asked you what year beat out 2014. Then you went into chart posting mode, and confused heating degree days with temperature anomalies. Oh…by the way, If you had “knowledge” you would have posted a graph with temperature anomalies, and not heating degree days.
4) “little boy’s questions” ….. I’m amazed you post here. I thought the policy of this site was that people that don’t show respect are snipped.

Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 16, 2015 9:39 pm

rodmol,
You labeled yourself a loser. YOU said people who don’t answer questions are “losers”. You said that.
That makes you a loser, no? See, you’re no match for someone who’s been around the block a few times. You just don’t have what it takes to keep up. That’s why you whine about what you pathetically call ‘name calling’. If you cared, you would come down hard on B. Gates. But you are completely silent when skeptics are being called much more vicious names. If you can’t handle a very mild rebuke like a ‘bigboy’ comment, you’re on the wrong site. I tried to post at Hotwhopper once, and the names I was called were much more vicious than anything you’ve ever read here. So spare us the crocodile tears, crybaby. You don’t give a damn when a skeptic is being called a liar and worse. If it was up to you, you would censor all skeptics.
Now I’ll give you a chance to answer a question I’ve repeatedly asked you. And keep in mind that while you may not like the answers I gave, I answered you. Repeatedly. So try to man-up for a change, and answer this:
“Can you produce empirical, testable measurements quantifying AGW, as a specific fraction/percentage of total global warming from all causes?”
Yes or No?
This is how we separate the wheat [truth] from the chaff [warmist propaganda]. It’s called peer review, whether you like it or not, and it isn’t limited to journal subscriptions. Your Appeal to Authority fallacy is no more legitimate than your ad hominem fallacies attacking Lord Monckton. It is people like you who detract from the science at this “Best Science” site, with your incessant game-playing, and tap-dancing around, and asking your questions while always refusing to answer others’ questions, and your sockpuppetry. Isn’t that right, “Socrates”?
This is better and more honest peer review than anything in the corrupted climate journals, and that is a proven fact: I’ve read the Climategate emails, and the “Harry_read_me” file, where the programmer admits that he has deliberately fabricated years of global temperature data — which was then used by the IPCC. And you can be certain he didn’t make global T decline.
You are fooling no one here. Obfuscating, misrepresenting, deflecting, and demanding that everyone else must answer your questions is your way of hiding the fact that you’ve got nothing. You have no credible supporting facts, only your baseless assertions. No wonder you hide out from answering questions.
It is a fact that NOT ONE alarmist prediction has ever happened. They have all failed. Why should anyone believe a word your ilk says? You have been flat wrong from the get-go.
You won’t answer questions for the same reason that a witness in court is terrified of being cross-examined: the truth will emerge. So you hide out. But we know: you’ve got nothin’.

Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 16, 2015 10:03 pm

Rodney says:
I asked you what year beat out 2014.
And I answered, chapter and verse. I posted several charts from different authorities, based on empirical data, in which you or anyone else can count the many recent years that were all warmer than 2014.
I posted other links, too, containing a mountain of information showing conclusively that 2014 was not one of the warmer years of the past couple dozen. I posted other charts, too, both by the U.S. government showing U.S. temperatures, and global temperatures, all showing that 2014 was not “The Hottest EVAH!!”
That narrative has been so thoroughly debunked that only graduates of a rural clown college still believe it. It is simply not true. However…
I DID answer you, and very completely. You are the outlier here, the one who is wrong, not me, and not those who produced the links. You. You are a ‘consensus’ of one (1). To the point: you are flat wrong. 2014 was a normal year.
But I did answer you. Whether your religion allows you to believe it or not, that isn’t my concern or my problem. I did more than I had to do. Unfortunately, nothing I post would ever be enough for you, because you are a True Believer. Your mind is made up and closed tighter than a submarine hatch. If global T plunged, and new glaciers descended on Europe and America a mile deep again, you would still be arguing about it. Because you aren’t interested in science. You only want to be ‘right’. But sadly for you, you’re wrong. The cAGW scare is complete nonsense.
Now it is your turn. Will you finally be a stand-up guy, and answer the question? If not, you’ve been trolling all along.

Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 17, 2015 2:50 am

Well, I guess ‘rodmol’ is out getting fitted for some new shortpants, because he won’t answer. He never answers. He has no answers. He is not capable of posting any answers.
Now, since he’s skedaddled, get a load of his delusion:
Guess you don’t even know what year was warmer than 2014.
This guy is the poster boy for ‘closed-minded’.
How many links have I posted showing EXACTLY THAT?
So I can’t argue when this jamoke says:
I don’t care to learn
and:
I don’t want to learn
Both 100% true statements.
and:
Science is done by publishing the results of one’s investigations in a peer reviewed journal.
*SNORT!* Get a clue!
Science is done by following the Scientific Method.
Finally:
Time to start educating Mr Dbstealey.
^That^, from a clueless jamoke who is incapable of learning anything, or educating anyone!
As an old WUWT commenter used to say:
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
OK, as you were. Carry on. ☺

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 17, 2015 11:19 am

“So I can’t argue when this jamoke says:”

Wow….you are using ad-hominem?

I guess you have to resort to that when you LOSE.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 17, 2015 11:47 am

dbstealey,

That’s why you whine about what you pathetically call ‘name calling’. If you cared, you would come down hard on B. Gates. But you are completely silent when skeptics are being called much more vicious names.

To your credit you did recently opine that my comments are not as egregiously trollish as many here have alleged over time. I’m curious as to why that changed; in my mind, my “stupidly dishonest” comments on and after the piggy thread don’t explain the reversal, only the escalation.
It also bears mentioning that “mod” has interceeded on my behalf twice that I can think of, warning someone to not insult my person but attack my argument. First one was quite a while back, within the first month or so I started posting here. The other one is on this very thread. Mostly though it’s open season, which is fine — politics is a blood sport, no more so than on the issue of climate. And it’s not like I’m incapable of being nasty when I set my mind to it, or simply lose my composure and fly off the handle.

If it was up to you, you would censor all skeptics.

A possiblility. I’d like to see you prove it.

“Can you produce empirical, testable measurements quantifying AGW, as a specific fraction/percentage of total global warming from all causes?”
Yes or No?

No. We don’t know all causes and never will. Best anyone will ever be able to do is produce estimates based on independently verifiable empirical data.

Your Appeal to Authority fallacy is no more legitimate than your ad hominem fallacies attacking Lord Monckton.

[reviews the cartoon at the top of the page, recalls the various appeals to McIntyre’s “expert debunking” of MBH98, notes that we’ve now come full-circle] Oh the irony, DB. You hardly ever fail to give me more than the miniumn daily required dose. You guys howl and scream when Greg Laden calls for Willie Soon’s head for doing fossil fuel industry supported research yet here you are day after day whining about consensus researchers hogging up the slop on the public’s dime.
By your own “logic” above, if you really cared, you would come down hard on your own side for doing it. But you are completely silent when Mann is being called “much more vicious names”.
See? Zero-sum argument. Follow the money, DB … it leads to food. Everybody’s gotta eat, even Real Scientists (TM).

Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 17, 2015 1:06 pm

No. We don’t know all causes and never will.
That wasn’t answering the question I asked.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  rodmol@virginmedia.com
February 17, 2015 8:30 pm

I’m sorry, DB, what part of NO do you not understand?

Sal Minella
February 16, 2015 7:07 am

Who is Brandon (Burg?) Gates and why do you all spend so much time interacting with him or her?

Reply to  Sal Minella
February 16, 2015 7:58 pm

Sal,
Maybe this is “Brandon”. What do you think?
There aren’t very many Brandons, and fewer yet posting alarmist nonsense on climate sites. What are the odds, eh?

Brandon Gates
Reply to  dbstealey
February 17, 2015 10:53 am

dbstealey, I cannot tell a lie, Shollenberger has been harassing Goddard.

mpainter
Reply to  dbstealey
February 17, 2015 2:39 pm

One thing about Gates: it doesn’t bother him a bit to look ridiculous. In fact, one could conclude that he enjoys it. Could it be that our resident troll is narcissistic? Hmmm…

Brandon Gates
Reply to  dbstealey
February 17, 2015 8:28 pm

mpainter, I think it’s more likely that you and I simply have different definitions for the word “ridiculous”.

Chuckles
February 16, 2015 9:09 am

Josh,
Hockey Sticks?
Would that be ‘Throne of Games’, then?

R. de Haan
February 16, 2015 9:37 am

Mann also claims the current snow records in Boston have been caused by by a hot pool off Cape Cod causing a doubling of the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere.
This is just another attempt of this climate activist to make the insane claim that AGW is responsible for the snow and frost.
Joe Bastardi deals with Mann’s BS effectively and also explains why this winter isn’t over by a long shot.
http://www.weatherbell.com/saturday-summary-february-14-2015

Reply to  R. de Haan
February 16, 2015 2:26 pm

Another ex-weatherman is a go to person for Science?? Really.

Reply to  warrenlb
February 16, 2015 4:40 pm

Well, you certainly aren’t. Are you?
No.

Reply to  warrenlb
February 17, 2015 5:30 am

By your standards, ex-weathermen are AUTHORITIES for you to cite.

Reply to  warrenlb
February 17, 2015 6:20 pm

You are no authority on any of these subjects.
That would be fine, if you were interested in learning. But you’re not.
What are you doing here, anyway? Trolling?

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 17, 2015 6:27 pm

Pot meet kettle.

You are not an authority either dbstealy

Reply to  warrenlb
February 17, 2015 6:53 pm

rodney says:
You are not an authority either dbstealy
Compared to you, I’m Einstein.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 17, 2015 6:58 pm

Thank you Mr dbstealey,

“Compared to you, I’m Einstein.”
..
I have never seen a better example of the Dunning-Kruger effect posted.
..
Much appreciated !!!

Reply to  warrenlb
February 17, 2015 7:35 pm

Rodney me boi,
Since the DK effect specifically refers to unskilled folks, and since my carreer was in a closely related climate field [Metrology], your pop psychology doesn’t apply to me. It’s just another big FAIL on your part. But my comparison applies to you, in spades.
I will retract that if you are a psychiatrist, or a professional psychologist. Are you?
So, what is your claim to related climate knowledge? I’ve posted my background often enough here. It is no secret. Now, what is YOUR CV? Do you even have a CV?
Oh. I forgot. You never answer questions. Well, break your rule for once, and post your expertise. I want to see if you’re talking through your hat, or if you are, in fact, an expert.

rodmol@virginmedia.com
Reply to  warrenlb
February 17, 2015 7:43 pm

You are nothing like Einstein. He was a humble man, and did not brag about himself as you do.

Reply to  warrenlb
February 18, 2015 3:30 am

Rodney,
Quit changing the subject. I’m not talking about humility, I’m comparing knowledge of the subject. I have it. You don’t.
Further: as you have admitted in writing, you cannot, and you will not learn. You are not willing to learn. Thus, your mind is made up and closed tighter than a drumskin. It’s the only way you can operate without your head imploding from the vacuum.
You never get into a discussion of facts. All you ever do is post nonsense. Why? Are you so unhappy that you feel the need to run interference all the time?
What a sad individual. You have no interest in science, which is why I and most other readers are here.
You just want to display your unhappiness, and this is a perfect venue: the real world is debunking your side’s beliefs, so you wallow in misery.
That must really suck, and I am very grateful that I’m not an unhappy person like you are. I am very happy that none of the catastrophic scenarios promoted by the Chicken Little crowd have happened. I am happy that CO2-based technology has made life so much better for everyone. I am happy that the public is rejecting climate alarmism.
But you? You’re just an unhappy guy. It shows in every comment you post.
Isn’t that true, “Socrates”?

John M
Reply to  R. de Haan
February 16, 2015 5:09 pm

Hmmmm…
So we have a snow storm. Lessee, is that weather or is it climate?
Tough one. But I guess the great Michael Mann is the go-to guy when it comes to a snowstorm.
Gee, now what effect might we call it if a Climate Scientist who’s made his name studying tree rings and upside down lake sediments thinks he’s an expert on a snow storm?
Gee, maybe I’ll look up the Dunning–Kruger effect

February 16, 2015 11:44 am

‘I just finished reading Chapter 14 ‘The hockey stick: a retrospective’ authored by Ross McKitrick in the book ‘Climate Change: The Facts’**
McKitrick’s chapter is detailed intellectually lethal ammunition against Mann’s latest mythic PR. Mann’s PR in which Mann attempts to resurrect from the climate science morgue his embarrassingly flawed pre-science.
McKitrick concluded his readable detailed re-dissection of the Mann Hockey Stick saga,

McKitrick wrote in the book ‘Climate Change: The Facts’,
“Conclusion
The [Mann Hockey Stick] story continued on from there and much more could be said. The intensity with which so many people have followed the story, and its continuing relevance via the ongoing Mann v. Steyn lawsuit (as well as others), indicate to me that it is more than just an academic spat about proxy quality and r2 scores. I suspect that the whole episode has wider social significance as an indicator of a rather defective aspect of early twenty-first century scientific culture.”

Thank you Dr. McKitrick. I think McKitrick has importantly suggested a path to discover the root cause of work like Mann’s pre-science work product. I suggest there is a growing presence of flawed philosophy of science as a cause of what McKitrick describes as “the whole [Mann Hockey Stick] episode has wider social significance as an indicator of a rather defective aspect of early twenty-first century scientific culture”.
** The book’s Chapter authors: Abbot, Dr John; James Delingpole, Dr Robert M. Carter ~ Rupert Darwall ~; Donna Laframboise, Dr Christopher Essex ~ Dr Stewart W. Franks ~ Dr Kesten C. Green ~; Dr Richard S. Lindzen, Nigel Lawson ~ Bernard Lewin ~; Dr Patrick J. Michaels ~ Dr Alan Moran, Dr Jennifer Marohasy ~ Dr Ross McKitrick ~; Nova, Jo; Dr Willie Soon, Dr Garth W. Paltridge ~ Dr Ian Plimer ~; Steyn, Mark; Watts, Anthony; Andrew Bolt; Dr J. Scott Armstrong (2015-01-11). Climate Change: The Facts. Stockade Books. Kindle Edition.
John

Scott M
February 16, 2015 1:19 pm

When will the hockey stick be updated? It should be easy for Dr Mann to bring it up to date? Might answer a lot of questions?

TheLastDemocrat
February 17, 2015 10:40 am

It would be good to hear the actual story of how Mann was thrust into this position. How he came to settle upon his climate analysis as a dissertation study, how he came to be a recipient of the Department of Energy fellowship to studyt the hockey stick, and how he jumped form a recently-minted PhD to be a lead author of the 2001 IPCC. –That is quite a jump in a world where there are supposed to be so many qualified climate scientists.

knr
Reply to  TheLastDemocrat
February 17, 2015 4:57 pm

The right type of bast**d at the right place at the right time . Its clearly nothing to do with any ability in has in science or statistics and certainly not down to his ‘winning personality’

February 17, 2015 5:53 pm

How is it that some get their pants in a knot about Dr Mann, when in the same breath they say:
1) Peer-reviewed science should be ignored as inconsequential
2) The relevant science appears on WUWT
3) Citing of peer-reviewed scientists is an ‘appeal to authority’ and thus irrelevant
4) PhD Credentials are irrelevant, and amateur non-scientists are to be preferred.
Such venom brings to mind a paraphrase from Hamlet ” [They] doth protest too much, methinks” i.e., Might they be concerned that after all, the peer-reviewed science is right about AGW?

philincalifornia
Reply to  warrenlb
February 17, 2015 6:27 pm

Please post the name of any poster on here (or in the world at large) who you can show, with direct evidence, fulfills those four criteria.

philincalifornia
Reply to  philincalifornia
February 17, 2015 9:00 pm

tick tock tick tock
You weren’t making up stuff were you ?

RACookPE1978
Editor
Reply to  warrenlb
February 17, 2015 6:38 pm

When a PhD “self-selected” scientist is wrong, it does not matter what the paper on his wall says.
When we do not know who the “self-selected” peer-reviewed readers were, nor what these “reviewers” own conditionals and credentials were, nor what edits and changes they demanded (extorted!) from the original researchers were, and when all CAGW self-styled “experts” run amuck crying “peer-review” “peer-review” “peer-review” all the way home – when the “peer-reviewed” papers I’ve read have been wrong, why should I trust “all” peer-reviewed papers without checking them? Then , when such “peer-reviewed” papers are found (yet again) to be wrong and not worth the paper they waste being printed upon, why should I (yet again) “trust” a person who cannot cite the number of papers they have read, criticized, and corrected?
Peer-review has been reviewed. It has been found wanting in recent years.
Well, the relevant “science” does show up each day on the WUWT Sea Ice page and Solar Page, and CO2 page, and on Curry’s site, and on CO2Science site, and on DMI’s site, and on NSIDC’s site, and on a few dozen others I read daily directly from the labs and institutions, it does tend to beat to press the loooooooong paper-printing delay needed for researchers to make the changes demanded by “peer-review” extortionists to get to print.
Peer-reviewed science may be, or may not be, inconsequential. But NO “consensus” in science has yet to be proved true.

February 17, 2015 6:43 pm

@warrenlb:
I, for one, get my “pants in a knot” as you say, because I have a real problem with charlatans. I have a problem when someone living mostly off of taxpayer gravy is trying to stack the deck in order to take more of my income. I have a problem when someone who purports to be a scientist refuses to disclose his methods, data, methodology and metadata. I have a problem when I see emails showing that other scientists and editors have lost their jobs because that despicable little lout has arranged it with his pals. I have a problem when someone like Mann hides in his ivory tower and refuses to debate. I have a problem when the guy sucks up multi-$millions in what are no more than bribes, in order to keep a false narrative alive. Mann has all the bad qualities of Elmer Gantry, and none of the good ones. Why are you so impressed with him?
I could go on. But I have some questions for you: why would you want someone like that for your HE-RO? And if this is such a bad place, where you don’t agree with the great majority of readers, why do you keep coming around? There are comfy blogs like Hotwhopper where you can post your nonsense. Why do you pester us with it?
#1: As far as your pal reviewed ‘science’ goes, you clearly have never read the Climategate emails, or the associated Harry_read_me file, in which the programmer admits to fabricating years of temperature data — which then finds its way into IPCC reports. You can bet that those invented temperatures never showed a long term decline, either. That wouldn’t fit the Narrative. Climate peer review is a stacked deck. It has nothing to do with honest science. Why do you like it so much?
#2: Yes, relevant science does appear here. Many mainstream climatologists, and other scientists and engineers post here, and write articles. So why do you cherry-pick only those charlatans who tell you what you want to hear? You don’t learn anything that way.
#3: Your constant, unending appeals to authority don’t show any original thinking. That is merely a crutch that takes the place of thinking.
#4: PhD credentials are not irrelevant. Who said they were? Remember that the OISM co-signers consisted of more than 9,000 PhD’s. So the question is: why do you believe they were irrelevant? Because they debunk your Narrative?
Once more: since you are so unhappy here, and so unhappy with the large majority of readers here, why do you keep coming back? You are completely unconvincing, and your arguments don’t hold water. What do you get out of it? Or are you just trolling?
Finally, you say:
Might they be concerned that after all, the peer-reviewed science is right about AGW?
What are they ‘right’ about? There are still no measurements of AGW. That makes it just another conjecture. So much for your “peer-reviewed science”. It’s more like a “peer-reviewed conjecture”, isn’t it?

philincalifornia
Reply to  dbstealey
February 17, 2015 7:24 pm

db,
Since warrenlb and Brandon Gates never answer the questions regarding any incontrovertible evidence for any climate parameter being changed by C02 going from 280 ppm to 400 ppm or can put forward a falsifiable theory of the AGW conjecture (both questions still outstanding, i.e. unanswered from the thread five days ago), I’m assuming that Skumbag Science doesn’t even have a bogus, attempted sheeple-duping answer to either of these questions for them to cut and paste over here.
Is this true, or is the purported answer(s) so laughable that they daren’t? These questions are all over comments even in the mainstream media now and I haven’t seen even a half-assed straw man answer yet.

Reply to  philincalifornia
February 17, 2015 7:46 pm

philincalifornia,
I have never seen any such evidence posted. Just the usual cut ‘n’ paste arguments.
You are right about the mainstream media. I just ran across this article:
http://www.businessinsider.com/pacific-island-nation-kiribati-sinking-2014-5
The author emits the usual talking points about ‘global warming’. But the interesting thing is the reader comments under the article. Look at the comments, and also check out the lopsided voting. And this is from a business publication. So they have no axe to grind.
The public is turning on the MMGW narrative, big time. It will only get worse for the alarmist clique.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  philincalifornia
February 17, 2015 8:26 pm

philincalifornia,
The “lack” of answers may have something to do with ridiculous qualifiers like “incontrovertible evidence”. I’ve answered variations dbstealey’s “question” many times, including right here on this thread:

No. We don’t know all causes and never will.
That wasn’t answering the question I asked.

“All causes” was the poison pill in that variant. It’s a really stupid game you two are playing here, I hope it’s fun for you.

philincalifornia
Reply to  philincalifornia
February 17, 2015 8:37 pm

Exactly, so after 40 years of the conjecture any evidence for its existence is between zero and immeasurable, but you still want to make people believe that in the next 80 years, 2X zero to immeasurable is going to be catastrophic.
That’s not a question.

Brandon Gates
Reply to  philincalifornia
February 17, 2015 8:46 pm

philincalifornia,
You don’t actually understand what “straw man” means, do you.

philincalifornia
Reply to  philincalifornia
February 17, 2015 8:53 pm

That made me laugh so much I hit the wrong reply button (unless some pee hit the keyboard) !

Reply to  philincalifornia
February 18, 2015 6:21 pm

No kidding. Gates is the King of Strawmen. Just more Projection on his part.

philincalifornia
Reply to  dbstealey
February 17, 2015 8:50 pm

Ha ha ha.
Cue whatsisname coming on here and saying he’s buying popcorn ‘cos you’re killing me in this argument !!

philincalifornia
February 17, 2015 9:11 pm

Brandon, tell me honestly, do you guys go to (taxpayer-paid for) propaganda conferences where if anyone says “null hypothesis” or “straw man” or “x”, you immediately respond with “you don’t know what x means”.
Come on, you already admitted there’s no incontrovertible evidence for any effect on any climate parameter of CO2 going from 280 ppm to 400 ppm. Go on, you can do it ….

Brandon Gates
Reply to  philincalifornia
February 17, 2015 9:46 pm

philincalifornia,

“you don’t know what x means”

Real popular phrase in these parts.

Come on, you already admitted there’s no incontrovertible evidence for any effect on any climate parameter of CO2 going from 280 ppm to 400 ppm.

The issue here is your insistence on “incontrovertible evidence”. Or as dbstealey is fond of saying, “evidence which both sides can agree upon”. People who ask such questions are not really looking for answers. As well, the scale and complexity of the system being studied does not lend itself to such an absolutely high standard of proof. Estimates are what you’re going to get, and they’re going to be varied for the foreseeable future.
Not my fault, I didn’t design this joint. Direct your complaints and dishonest questions elsewhere.

philincalifornia
Reply to  Brandon Gates
February 17, 2015 9:50 pm

Thank you for your honest answer

Brandon Gates
Reply to  Brandon Gates
February 17, 2015 9:56 pm

You’re welcome.

February 18, 2015 3:20 am

If it were not for nitpicking, Gates wouldn’t have much to say. He loves parsing things that don’t much matter by themselves, while avoiding the big picture.
The big picture:
There is nothing unusual or unprecedented happening. In fact, we are fortunate to be living in such a benign climate.
The big picture: despite endless predictions of doom and gloom, there is nothing unusual or unprecedented happening. Every alarmist prediction has been wrong.
The big picture: although AGW may exist, it is clearly too minuscule to measure, therefore it can be completely disregarded.
Since the big picture gives us nothing to be concerned about, nitpicking is all that’s left for the Chicken Little crowd. How else can they cry, “Wolf!!”?
I expect a well thought out, rational answer from Gates addressing those points.
But I know better.

February 18, 2015 6:13 am

FYI: My PhD thesis deals with the politics surrounding the hockey stick study.
https://climatepragmatism.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/phdthesis_hampel_1168876.pdf
[Thank you. If used, how should it be referenced? .mod]

Reply to  mathishampel
February 19, 2015 2:29 am

Hampel, M. (2014) Climate Reconstruction and the Making of Authoritative Scientific Knowledge. PhD Thesis, School of Social Science & Public Policy, King’s College London.