Poland To Veto EU's 40% CO2 Reduction Proposal

From the GWPF and Dr. Benny Peiser: New Unilateral CO2 Targets Would ‘Destroy European Industry’ Poland Warns

Climate change scepticism is on the rise in Europe. Governments are not going to back a planned 40 percent cut in carbon emissions by 2030 at a time when the EU is on its knees economically. Poland has promised a veto, threatening a global domino effect. —The Commentator 18 October2014

If the EU summit next week maintains the European Commission’s proposal on reducing carbon dioxide emissions by 40 percent by 2030, Poland will have to veto it, Deputy Prime Minister and Economy Minister Janusz Piechociński told Polish Radio on Thursday. “If this initial proposal will look as it does now, then Poland will have no choice but to veto it,” Piechociński said. “For the Polish economy minister and the majority of EU economy ministers the 40-percent option, which destroys half of Europe’s industry, is unacceptable,” he added. —Warsaw Business Journal, 16 October 2014

veto1Poland’s Economy Minister and Deputy PM Janusz Piechocinski has said that the EU’s proposal on CO2 emissions reduction would “destroy European industry”. “Europe shouldn’t be naïve, and it shouldn’t decide on anything which would be harmful for European industry,” Piechocinski told Polish Radio, Thursday morning. Polish Radio, 16 October 2014

Poland’s largest opposition party Law and Justice (PiS) says it would support a veto by Prime Minister Kopacz on climate change in Brussels next week if the move harmed the Polish economy. Law and Justice’s unusual solidarity with the government comes after Poland’s deputy prime minister and economy minister Janusz Piechociński confirmed on Thursday that if there is no movement on the EC’s proposal at the summit then “Poland will have no choice but to veto it”. —Radio Poland, 17 October 2014

A week before the start of a Brussels summit on climate goals, member states disagree on various points of the so-called climate and energy policy framework for 2030. In the comments on the draft conclusions member states wrote this week – of which EUobserver has seen 22 – the disagreement appears largest on targets for energy efficiency and on which share of energy consumed in the EU should be from a renewable source in 2030. –Peter Teffer, EUobserver, 17 October 2014

Owen Paterson’s GWPF speech is worth noting by the capital markets as it indicates that the current political consensus on energy policy maybe be challenged going forward. In our view the public and political debate is only likely to grow as the inherent contradictions and unforeseen negative consequences of the current policy become more apparent as time goes on. We have long argued that current EU/UK energy policy is deeply flawed and that utility companies and public market investors should be wary of committing further capital to support and deliver it. Advice which has been increasingly accepted in recent times. After all, an energy policy that has the Hinkley Point C contract and off-shore wind as its two flagship achievements must eventually collapse under the weight of its own idiocy. –Peter Atherton, Liberum, 16 October 2014

2014 Annual GWPF Lecture. Owen Paterson. 'Keeping The Lights On'.

HURRAH! At last a senior politician has finally plucked up the courage to tell the truth about the Government’s climate change policies – they are ruinously expensive, they won’t keep the lights on and they are deliberately designed to punish the poor and further enrich the wealthy. What we need is an urgent and radical re-think of our energy needs. The useless Climate Change Act and its entirely arbitrary and damaging targets should be scrapped. The punishment of the poor and subsides for the rich should stop. –Bill Carmichael, Yorkshire Post, 17 October 2014

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October 19, 2014 5:48 am

No doubt the Polish political leaders are on the Koch’s payroll”

October 19, 2014 5:48 am

Gosh! What a lovely blast of fresh air. Hope it blows harder.

October 19, 2014 5:54 am

I absolutely, totally, and completely regret every Polock joke I ever told. They have more guts than any people on Earth. Good for them!

Reply to  Dave
October 19, 2014 10:10 am

Funny, I thought the same thing. What Poland is doing takes courage. The boy who shouted ” The Emperor has no clothes.” was courageous too.

Reply to  RobRoy
October 19, 2014 1:52 pm

No, the boy was just uncorrupted by political correctness.

Nigel S
Reply to  Dave
October 19, 2014 11:45 am

I worked with an excellent Polish foreman whose T shirt read ‘I’m Polish, what’s your excuse?’ A brilliant joke and response in one. Don’t forget the Spitfire pilots of course!

Reply to  Nigel S
October 19, 2014 2:00 pm

Yes, and it was the Poles who first broke the Enigma cipher. Their methods were the initial basis for analyzing later, more complex versions of Enigma at Bletchley Park. WWII would have had a different outcome without this success.

Reply to  Nigel S
October 21, 2014 8:10 am

Poland does it again!!!

BBC21 October 2014
Paralysed man walks again after cell transplant
A paralysed man has been able to walk again after a pioneering therapy that involved transplanting cells from his nasal cavity into his spinal cord.
Darek Fidyka, who was paralysed from the chest down in a knife attack in 2010, can now walk using a frame.
The treatment, a world first, was carried out by surgeons in Poland in collaboration with scientists in London.
Details of the research are published in the journal Cell Transplantation……

Never underestimate these geniuses. 😉

John Boles
October 19, 2014 6:04 am

FINALLY the tide is turning! England had better come around soon, I dare say.

Reply to  John Boles
October 24, 2014 10:19 am

Yes David Cameron still seems a bit slow to wake up.

October 19, 2014 6:05 am

I recall predicting that once anyone realized that “carbon reduction” meant THEM, not someone else, they’d be completely against it. Here is yet another example of that happening.
Good for Poland, and their backers.

Mike H.
Reply to  CodeTech
October 19, 2014 1:31 pm

“I recall predicting that once anyone realized that “carbon reduction” meant THEM,…”
Needs to be disseminated.

Gary Pearse
October 19, 2014 6:37 am

There is such an enormous irony here. Britannia ruled the waves for several centuries; the sun used to never set on the B.E.; they invented the industrial revolution…… It has been downhill since then but, I expected the lower slopes would flatten out before falling over a cliff. But no! Russia, China, India and Eastern Europe have had to come to the rescue.
The UK, Germany and Netherlands were the only economic engines in Europe for several centuries and I was amazed that such countries wanted to throw their lot in with the cradle-to-grave, slothful, gimme gimme, gov-will-look-after-your-every-need, big tit governments of Western Europe. Man, talk about redistribution!! They redistributed their brains, too. And we have the once most powerful, pragmatic, world economic engine of the last century anxious to join the lemmings! Man, this isn’t real. It would even be rejected as experimental fiction.
Thank you Poland, Czech Republic, Russia, India, China from saving us from ourselves (I’m Canadian and I give kudos to PM Harper, but we wouldn’t be able to hold out forever if the tide wasn’t turning. Canadians will dump Canada’s savior (because he isn’t warm and cuddly) for EU-type wastrels who look good on tv. It doesn’t look like the US will ever be great again (unless the Mexicans can save them) but at least Poland and the few will flatten out the lower slopes for it. Rant over.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
October 19, 2014 6:56 am

Gary, we (UK) just ran out of resources. But not expectations.
In a way the Sovbloc did the E. Europeans a favour by holding them back.
Poles is fine people. Make the best sausages in the world.
The fight back agains pseudo science and pseudo religion is a global one. We have to build a new world ourselves. The polticians haven’t a clue how.

Reply to  Leo Smith
October 19, 2014 9:56 am

@ Leo Smith – ‘we (UK) just ran out of resources.’
More correctly, other people’s resources you had pilfered for yourselves in your empire!

Reply to  Leo Smith
October 19, 2014 10:05 am

They also brought civilization. A more than fair trade.

View from the Solent
Reply to  Leo Smith
October 19, 2014 10:29 am

UK ran out of resources? Great Britain – ‘an island made mainly of coal…’ ,Aneurin Bevan, 1945.
(He continued ‘… and surrounded by fish’, but the EU has plundered them)

Reply to  Leo Smith
October 19, 2014 1:44 pm

@ dbstealey – ‘They also brought civilisation’
Ah, yes how fondly we remember that English ‘Civilising’ influence on us Irish: exporting our agricultural produce while nearly a quarter of the population starved to death from which our population size still has not recovered to this day, penal laws to prohibit us Catholics owning land or even a horse which continued to be law until the third decade of the 19th century (remnants of which survive to this day with your highest political offices of PM and monarch), banishment ‘to hell or to Connacht’ as we Irish were thrown by force from our homes and lands to make way for good Protestant planters shipped over from Britain, the Cromwellian massacre of the citizens of Drogheda and finally, as a fond farewell to the Emerald Isle, you sent over your mentally ill world war-wounded soldiers all dressed up in spanking new Black & Tan uniforms to terrorise and kill countless innocent civilians in order to convince us we were ‘Better Together’. That English ‘Civilising’ influence continued into the 1970’s when your Paras used innocent Derry civilians as target practice because they were bored and trigger happy and you gave us a masterclass in how to use a senior judicial figure to politically whitewash the entire episode and exonerate all of the military murderers.
‘A more than fair trade.’ – Indeed, you have no idea how grateful and indebted we Irish are to have the selfless and wonderfully magnanimous English as our neighbours who laboured over 700 years to civilise us. We thank you from the bottom of our hearts……..

Reply to  Leo Smith
October 19, 2014 2:35 pm

The discussion was about Poland. It also mentioned Russia, China, India, Eastern Europe, Germany, the Netherlands and some others. The Irish were never mentioned.
But glad to give you the opportunity to air your grievances.

Reply to  Leo Smith
October 19, 2014 4:41 pm

Yes. Thank you Hoplite for a bottle of fine Irish whine…

Reply to  Leo Smith
October 19, 2014 9:39 pm

@inMAGICn – when told that we former British colonies should be grateful for the English ‘Civilising’ and ‘enlightened’ influence on us, is it whining to point out honestly our collective experience and thoughts about it? As an Englishman, I know it makes you very uncomfortable to be reminded of your forefathers actions just as the Germans today are uncomfortable about the N*zi past of their forefathers. There’s little profit in constantly digging it up again as we all need to move on, however, when provoked and told that we should be grateful for all the English did for us and how they civilised us I think it a might churlish and unreasonable of you to say that listing the wrongs done is just a whine. Imagine, if a German here said that the Jews should be grateful to the Na*zi’s for the creation of the state of Israel? Would it be a whine for a Jewish person to remind that person of all the unspeakable crimes perpetrated against the Jewish people then? Some English have never learnt what harm their forefathers did to the Irish and other colonies. There was actually a proposal in the late 90’s to nominate Cromwell as Britain’s man of the millennium! You really couldn’t make this nonsense up!!

Reply to  Leo Smith
October 19, 2014 10:05 pm

– the conversation was mainly about Poland which was never part of the British Empire. When talking about the decline of Britain I pointed out, fairly, that it was largely the loss of its empire. Ireland was the first and longest held colony of that empire. To talk about colonies being grateful for the English ‘civilising’ influence in that empire involves, unquestionably, Ireland as it does the other colonies.
I don’t have grievances against the English I get on well with them – we all need to move on and normalise our relationship in a very different world. But, please, don’t tell us we should be grateful for the civilising influence of the British empire – that is only going to get a very lively response!

Evan Jones
Reply to  Leo Smith
October 20, 2014 3:36 am

Some English have never learnt what harm their forefathers did to the Irish and other colonies.
Not These States, though. We were living high on the hog, as these things go. Richest in the world, per capita (including England). Taxed the least.
Hop Lite
A good military history pun. Shoot me now; it’s all downhill from here.

Juliette Curtis
Reply to  Leo Smith
October 20, 2014 3:55 am

There is a Polish butcher near where I live. He makes the most delicious sausages I have ever eaten. Crowds of elderly Polish people come to his shop regularly in buses to buy his sausages.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
October 19, 2014 9:34 am

In 1973, the British Pound Sterling lost the coveted position of world reserve currency. Britannia fell for Leftist, ruinous policies and that was the consequence. They’ve been sinking economically ever since.
And yes, the US is on the same downward trajectory–China and Russia are abandoning the dollar in much of their trading and many other countries are looking to do the same.

Reply to  RockyRoad
October 19, 2014 11:14 am

Yes. The swing to the left after WWII destroyed what little stilll remained of British innovation and self-confidence after two disastrous wars. The brain drain from the socialist dystopia they created then settled its future.
In little more than a century, Britain went from ‘the workshop of the world’ to, with rare exceptions like ARM, a nation of bankers, landlords and dolies run from Brussels. It’s only fitting that the last Labour government and the Tory ‘opposition’ came together to sign a national suicide pact in the Climate Change Act.

Reply to  RockyRoad
October 19, 2014 2:06 pm

“A nation of shop-keepers” now selling each other shoes made in China.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
October 19, 2014 11:08 pm

@ Gary just pointing to the UK, Germany and the Netherlands (Holland in those days) as economic engines is incomplete (and if you look at history I am not sure if they want to be remembered that way), France, Spain, Portugal, Italy were just as influential in western Europe (just look at the way colonies were established). Then looking at Eastern Europe there was Russia, the Ukraine, Greece, Turkey, Hungary, Romania etc that had their own “Empires”. But I totally agree on Harper

AJ Virgo
Reply to  asybot
October 20, 2014 3:18 am

I am not English but I know something about it. The non English colonies for instance were disasters and still are.
The English ones however are great successes and the Queen still rules over many of them.
Englands banking sector is twice as large as France and Germanys combined and England is the service sector Goliath in Europe…….. none compare to her.
Britains economy is running just fine and the envy of the EU.
Irelands history would be very different if it had not of aligned itself with Englands enemies at every turn.

October 19, 2014 6:53 am

It was Lech Walesa and the Solidarity movement in Poland that started the crumbling of the Soviet Empire. Never under estimate the power of the Poles.

Reply to  JimS
October 19, 2014 10:15 am

More Polish courage.

Reply to  JimS
October 20, 2014 5:26 am

Yeah, and don’t forget the Polish Pope as well

October 19, 2014 7:06 am

But what level of reduction will Poland accept? Even 20% could be very damaging.

October 19, 2014 7:15 am

Sometimes all it takes is one strong voice to give weaker hands the added power to dissent. Dissent is the name of the game. Make the energy tyrants prove that they can reduce emissions without costing significantly more (and also prove CO2 reduction won’t actually harm and will have benefit). And I don’t mean some stupid research paper pumped out by one of their beholden university professors.

oebele bruinsma
October 19, 2014 7:16 am

It is the end of the grand AGW finale. As politicians are the last but one ( the watermelons will be last) to wriggle their way out, I think it is high time, as a voter that is, to ask some serious questions.

October 19, 2014 7:24 am

Polish people I’ve met are incredibly strong minded people, I’d go as far as to say its probably a national personality trait. I was wondering how long they would just lay down and take it from the EU.

October 19, 2014 7:49 am

Many Poles also flew for the RAF during The Battle of Britain and the rest of WW2. They are always looking for freedom, not having had it very often.

Reply to  SteveT
October 19, 2014 2:24 pm

Yes. In the months leading up to the Battle of Britain, Poles briefly operated two submarines based in UK ports, the Orzel and the Wilk. The Orzel was particularly interesting for its morale value at that time.

Reply to  Frodo
October 19, 2014 9:14 pm

It is a pity that the Poles ran out on parade in London.

October 19, 2014 7:55 am

So how many politicians from how many European countries have quietly given their support to the Poles? Quite a few, I suspect. There must be a large section of the political society who see perfectly well how absurd the whole climate situation is, but dare not go against the official view. Maybe they will find a compromise, but then probably with much less emission cuts. Or maybe they will put down their foot with a veto. In which case, EU-based climate policy will be more or less dead. I believe that politicians in many countries are longing to line up with popular feeling about the “crises”, and are looking hopefully towards Warsaw.

Reply to  ConTrari
October 19, 2014 11:58 am

And – if Owen Patterson was still I/C Environment (not so . . . . I know) perhaps Warsaw would have a very solid ally in London.
Watermelons here – some in government – mean that solidity should not be relied upon: it m I g h t be there . . . .
Or otherwise.

October 19, 2014 8:04 am

Now they are our good friends I thought some useful phrases would not go amiss – and thanks to google mail translation services I would like to thank them –
“dziękuję za zatrzymanie tego szaleństwa globalnego ocieplenia”
Dzień dobry – good morning (or good afternoon)(Jean Dough-bree) pronunciation (help·info)
Dobry wieczór – good evening (DOH-brih VEE-etch-OO-r) pronunciation (help·info)
Dobranoc – good night (doh-BRAH-nots) pronunciation (help·info)
Cześć – hi (Cheshch) pronunciation (help·info)
Do widzenia – good bye (d-oh veedzenia) pronunciation (help·info)
Proszę – please / here you are (prosh-eh) pronunciation (help·info)
Dziękuję – thank you (Jen KOO yeh) pronunciation (help·info)
Dzięki – thanks (less formal) (JEN kee) pronunciation (help·info)
Przepraszam – I’m sorry / excuse me (psheh-prasham) pronunciation (help·info)
Tak – yes (t-ah-k) pronunciation (help·info)
No – yeah (n-oh softer o) pronunciation (help·info)
Nie – no / not (Nee-eh) pronunciation (help·info)
Nie wiem – I don’t know (nee-eh vee-em)
Nie zawracaj mi głowy, nie widzisz, że jestem zajęty/zajęta ? – don’t disturb me, don’t you see I’m busy ? (speaker: male/female) (lit. Don’t turn my head, don’t you see, that I am busy) (Nee-eh zaf-rah-tsai me gh-wh-oh-vih, nee-eh vi-tsish, sh-eh yea-stem zah-yea-th-ih/zah-yea-th-ah)
Jak się masz? – how are you? (lit. How do you have yourself?) (Yah-k sheh mahsh) pronunciation (help·info)
Jak leci? – what’s up? (lit. how’s it flying?) (Yah-k l-eh-chee) pronunciation (help·info)
Miłego dnia – have a nice day (mee-uego dne-ea)
Co/Jak tam u ciebie ? – how is it going? (tso / yah-k tahm oo cheh-bee-eh) pronunciation (help·info)
Nie mówię po polsku. – I don’t speak Polish (nee-eh moov-ee-eh po polskoo) pronunciation (help·info)
Nie rozumiem – I don’t understand (nee-eh roh-zoo-mee-em) pronunciation (help·info)
Na zdrowie! – Cheers! (or Bless you!) (lit. For health!) (nah zdroh-vee-eh) pronunciation (help·info)

Tom J
October 19, 2014 8:18 am

People who have lived most of their lives under a boot know full well what it’s like to return to it. I hope their wisdom spreads to those who haven’t experienced it.

Reply to  Tom J
October 19, 2014 7:53 pm

Alas, it never does. More than that, a substantial part of population in any country knows only one way of approaching a boot: by licking it.

October 19, 2014 8:27 am

To help the alarmist politicians I have put together some key phrases they are likely to hear-
what global warming – co globalne ocieplenie
dont be stupid Nie bądź głupi
co2 does not cause runaway global warming CO2 nie spowoduje niekontrolowanego globalnego ocieplenia
the polar bears are fine niedźwiedzie polarne są w porządku
The himalayas are not melting Himalaje nie topnieją
It was warmer in the past To było cieplej w przeszłości
The Antarctic has had record ice Antarktyka miała rekordową lodu
The Arctic ice is increasing Arktyczny lód rośnie
The seas will never become acidic Morza nigdy nie stanie się kwaśna

Reply to  richard
October 19, 2014 8:39 pm

I admire the sentiment but these translations are really bad.

October 19, 2014 8:56 am

Maybe I missed something.
If Poland does not sign on, does it mean that the proposal cannot pass. Does it require 100% agreement?

Reply to  Catcracking
October 19, 2014 10:20 am

My question too. I took the word “veto” to mean the Poles can kill it. I don’t know though.

Reply to  Catcracking
October 19, 2014 10:40 am

Yes, as far as I understand EU politics, Polen can veto an agreement. However, as one of the links explains, there is a very complex pictures, with different groups and constellations.
“In the comments on the draft conclusions member states wrote this week – of which EUobserver has seen 22 – the disagreement appears largest on targets for energy efficiency and on which share of energy consumed in the EU should be from a renewable source in 2030.”
“There is also disagreement on whether this efficiency target should be binding or “indicative”. Only six of the 22 leaked member states’ positions stated they wanted a binding target, but only at EU-level.”
So, many states don’t want a binding target for energy efficiency? And the size of renewables also seems to be highly controversial. Next year, the world will again try to agree on a binding climate deal, but if not even the EU can agree, who will? Maybe the Paris 2015 watchword will be “Sauve qui peut”; everyone for himself, as indeed the latest proposal from th U S government seems to suggest. A thousand ways to save the world without inconvenience to anyone. What a beautiful dream.

Just Steve
October 19, 2014 9:07 am

It would seem to be time to put away the Polish jokes….
BTW, it’s been speculated that in heaven Polish is the native tongue. ..because it takes an eternity to learn.

Reply to  Just Steve
October 19, 2014 10:43 am

The Finns are even more heavenly in that respect….
The EU looks more and more like a “Polish Parliament”.

Reply to  ConTrari
October 19, 2014 2:28 pm

As stated above re the Poles: “A strong-minded people!” Even when dealing among themselves.

Reply to  Just Steve
October 19, 2014 7:57 pm

Polish is not that difficult, if you learn simple sounds written down by that hurry-scurry of Latin characters denoting Polish phonemes. Latin alphabet is singularly unsuitable for Slavic way of pronouncing things, that’s all.

James Strom
October 19, 2014 9:14 am

Congratulations to Poland. As national governments come to their senses they will also begin appointing fewer ideologues to science advisory and research funding positions. The climate is changing–i.e., the scientific climate.

October 19, 2014 9:37 am

Gary Pearse October 19, 2014 at 6:37 am
“There is such an enormous irony here…. ”
Great post!

Steve from Rockwood
Reply to  John the Cube
October 19, 2014 9:52 am

The irony curtain…

Reply to  Steve from Rockwood
October 19, 2014 10:44 am

…coal powered.

Steve from Rockwood
October 19, 2014 9:52 am

The Germans are probably quietly thanking the Polish. Don’t see that every day.

Chris Riley
October 19, 2014 10:21 am

How many Belgians does it take to change (a chemically hazardous) light bulb?

Reply to  Chris Riley
October 19, 2014 10:48 am

All right, way off topic, but here goes, in the same vein:
How many Swedes (or Scots or whatever) does it take to name a ship?
All of them. One holds the bottle, the others throw the ship.
Can also be seen as a symbol of EU climate policy.

David Schofield
October 19, 2014 10:33 am

Most votes in the EU are based on ‘Qualified Majority Voting’. Basically each country gets to vote with its percentage of the EU population.

Reply to  David Schofield
October 19, 2014 10:54 am

If that is the case here, it seems unlikely that any country can threaten to use a veto.
“Earlier on Thursday (16 October) German chancellor Angela Merkel said that although government leaders will try to reach an agreement next week, “it is unclear” if they will be able to. ”
This does not sound as if a voting with qualified majority will decide the issue.

Steve from Rockwood
Reply to  ConTrari
October 19, 2014 11:09 am

Appears as though the “Qualified Majority Voting” applies to many things such as budgets, defense and energy policy. Do the Brits know what they signed up for? Seems the Poles cannot veto energy policy but can only hope to convince the rest of Europe (only 65% actually) to come to its senses.

Steve from Rockwood
Reply to  ConTrari
October 19, 2014 11:13 am

Perhaps I have it backward and the EU has to come up with a 65% majority by national population to pass legislation that has been vetoed by a specific country.

Reply to  ConTrari
October 19, 2014 11:20 am

The Brits have little say in anything, only their politiicans do, and both the currently electable parties are rabidly pro-EU. The EU bribes politicians to do what they’re told by dangling the prospect of a fat EU job in front of them for when they’re kicked out of Parliament.
This is why the UKIP is doing well, even though they seem to lack any kind of coherent policies other than getting out of the EU. There’s barely any difference between the other three parties, and most of the politicians from those parties would happily sell Britain down the river if it’s to their own personal benefit.

Steve from Rockwood
Reply to  ConTrari
October 19, 2014 11:36 am

Seems as though no country has a veto. They would need to form a blocking minority with at least 4 Council members to prevent the legislation from passing. The word veto was likely meant for local consumption, to warm the hearts of Poles looking for their government to do something about the economy.

Reply to  David Schofield
October 19, 2014 2:48 pm

One thing is what EU rules say about decision procedures, quite another is what the member states can swallow of ” forced democracy”. I doubt if any experienced leaders in the union are willing to force through a decision through majority voting, they know what anger and frustration this may cause. The EU will always try to move in unison, and if necessary, accept special deals for certain members. UK and Denmark have sauccessfully been granted exceptions from several important parts of the EU system. Maybe something like this will be acceptable to give to Poland in this case, however, there may be a whole phalanx of nations clamouring for the same deal, and that can quickly finish the Union’s climate policy altogether. So the polictical leaders have every reason to tread carefully.

October 19, 2014 11:10 am

Timing is king , if the vote can be delayed until after UK elections , the Poles stance is a perfect way of a new government of killing of the idea within the UK, blaming it on the Poles. The Green meanies will be mad has hell but they they always are and with Ed a dead man walking no longer with us after the elections . Any new government should be able to committee the idea to death.

David L. Hagen
October 19, 2014 11:19 am

The No Regrets solution is to make current sustainable energy cheaper and more reliable and to enable Poland to benefit from its large resources of geologically stored solar energy (aka “coal”).

Reply to  David L. Hagen
October 19, 2014 1:57 pm

Voting for this insane policy would mean destroying polish energy industry. Poland produce 95% of its electricity from coal (52,3% from black coal, 42,7% from lignite).
Polish governments quite often do stupid things, but they are not so stupid. Poland in 2008 was saving Germany’s overstretched grid from complete blackout – production from coal is stable in opposition to German’s so much loved wind.
As a Pole I hope government withstand pressure from UE in this matter.

Reply to  David L. Hagen
October 19, 2014 2:25 pm

In Poland we have biggest in Europe thermal power plant – Belchatow lignite power plant (5354 MW – it produces yearly 27-28 TWh of electricity). It is flagged by EU as biggest CO2 producer in Europe. It is really big – it has own dedicated strip mine, its chimneys are 300m (980 ft) tall. Recently managers refused to work on CCS (proposed by EU).
Cost of electricity produced in Polish lignite power plants is very low – usually 50% of cost from ‘black’ coal (not mentioning other sources). Poland simply cannot agree on this insane policy.

Gary Pearse
October 19, 2014 12:56 pm

I know in the western world I may be in the minority on the question of the Ukraine crisis, but I tell every Ukrainian I hear on the subject of their breaking away from Russia’s grip to either go it alone or go along with Russia – joining the EU would be a suicide pact. They, like Poland have very large coal resources (and gold, base metals, manganese…). They also have substantial frackable shale resources, and, of course, their agricultural resources are huge. The EU would shackle them, fill them up with millions of African, Asia Minor, etc. immigrants, kill their resource industry – particularly shale gas, and give them thousands of regulatory pages on how to grow tomatoes, etc. Hamlet said it best in his most famous soliloquy “To be or not to be…” Better stick with the devil you know than the cadaver enchanting you from the west.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
October 19, 2014 8:53 pm

Well, maybe Ukraine, together with other Eastern European countries, could bring some common sense into the EU’s suicidal utopia, and turn the pace of history. Going along with today’s Russia is no option for anybody who values individual freedom, truth, and dignity. To approve of Putin is to approve of murder, it’s as simple as that.

Reply to  Gary Pearse
October 20, 2014 10:24 am

Oh please. This is about shale gas – Ukraine has a shed load of deposits, many of which are in areas being fought over. Highly surprising that the self proclaimed leaders of “free” russian-ukraine have banned any shale gas-related activity including exploration.
Putin has a good thing going with Gazprom and Poland is already a threat to that. They plan to become East Europe’s main gas hub, with their own shale gas and liquified gas coming from the Sauids (if I remember correctly) which would nullify Putin’s unholy influence in the region. No more gas blackmail anymore.
Russia will not let it go easily. The Financial Times already reported on Putin’s funding of the Green NGOs which lobby the EU parliament. The end game is very likely a gas war between Poland and Russia with a stable, shale gas producing Ukriane, most likely partnering with Poland being another threat to Russia.

October 19, 2014 4:14 pm

Add another country to those that understand the “cure” is worse than the non existent problem. The reality of energy deprivation is setting in and will hopefully snowball. It has gone from “of course we’re interested in saving the world” to ‘why do I have to die and do without’ to maintain YOUR lifestyle.

October 19, 2014 8:03 pm

German landscapes are totally disfigured by those dismally ugly wind turbines (many of which stand still, as I observed). I am afraid of these things, they look like H. G. Wells’ Martians, ready to start walking over cities. Fortunately, it will be relatively easy to cut them all down, if and when sanity returns to the Western world.

Reply to  Alexander Feht
October 19, 2014 9:11 pm

“Fortunately, it will be relatively easy to cut them all down, if and when sanity returns to the Western world.”
But who pays to do the removals (particularly those off-shore ones.. it will not be cheap!.
Remember that there are tonnes of concrete and steel to be removed, and you can bet the people who put them up will have lined their pockets and scarpered !

Reply to  Alexander Feht
October 20, 2014 3:25 am

Open lignite mines are not so nice in the landscape either. On the whole, nuclear seems a better option.

Reply to  ConTrari
October 20, 2014 7:32 am

Look at the landscape w2ith google earth at- Kaster-,west of Cologne/Germany, you won’t believe there have been giantic lignite mines 20 years ago, next to the still producing ones!

Reply to  ConTrari
October 20, 2014 10:48 am

@ alacran:
Yes, many old open-air mines have been turned into nice parks and lakes, have seen several of them. But during the decades the mines are operating, it is just about the ugliest thing to be seen, and displacing whole villages, like the ones in East Germany. Also, the original landskape form is gone forever.

Vince Causey
Reply to  Alexander Feht
October 20, 2014 8:04 am

They won’t be cut down because it will be cheaper for the owners to leave them there where they will at least harvest some subsidy – unless they reckon on huge scrap values. I don;t know, but it seems once the expense has been sunk, the economics dictates keeping them there till they fall down.

Non Nomen
October 19, 2014 10:42 pm

>>…if and when sanity returns to the Western world.<<
Wait until the cows come home.

October 20, 2014 12:00 am

I just watched the Owen Patterson lecture.
That guy should be Prime Minister. Not that moron Cameron.

October 20, 2014 7:06 am

The Poles started the rollback of communism and they can do the same against policy driven science fraud. The similarities are there with the former regime: stagnant economy, heavy-handed overseers, regional proxy leaders, flimsy dogma, broken promises, and money extraction.

Reply to  Resourceguy
October 20, 2014 10:51 am

Yep, Poles are the guardians of European common sense and dignity. Cheers to ’em!

October 20, 2014 7:13 am

Although it is hard for me to understand the nuances of European politics, I think this instance shows some backbone by the Polish government. Makes me proud of my Polish heritage from my mother.

Vince Causey
Reply to  John Whitman
October 20, 2014 8:09 am

yes, but Polish government aren’t in thrall to green NGOs and all the rest. Where is their equivalent of the Guardian, left leaning BBC, FOE, David Attenborough and Brian Cox? Where are their Cleggies and Millibands? Where are their poley huggers and occupiers?

October 20, 2014 8:48 am

Vince Causey on October 20, 2014 at 8:09 am
– – – – – – – –
Vince Causey,
I do not know.

October 20, 2014 8:49 am

Poland: Defender of Freedom!

Reply to  notfubar
October 20, 2014 11:04 am

I agree

James at 48
October 20, 2014 9:05 am

Frackin’ awesome!

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