Another green calls for "Deniers" to be jailed

RFK_jail

Climate Depot reports that another prominent green, Robert F. Kennedy Junior, has called for climate “deniers” to be jailed. Is it just me, or is there something very wrong with a political landscape in which people find it acceptable to demand their opponents be jailed for disagreeing with them? Watch the video.

RFK Jr wants to jail energy CEO’s for “Treason” Laments no current laws to punish climate skeptics:

RFK Jnr is not alone in demanding people who disagree with him do time – the Google search http://google.com/search?q=jail+climate+deniers returns over 200,000 hits.

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Control freak cowards of the world, you are not alone.
Unbelievable.

randyjet

The Koch brothers have already committed enough corporate crimes to be in jail if we had a justice system that worked. I am only surprised that they have not gotten more money from the US government.

Sorry, randyjet, I don’t know enough about the Koch bros to comment on them.
I do know enough, however to say that labelling people ‘deniers’ , with the vastly unpleasant connotations to the holocaust that carries, & calling for them to be jailed, is a cry so unjust, anti-democratic & foolish as to be ludicrous.
Fascism here we come.
Here in the UK, our moronic PM, David Cameron, has, in a UN speech, labelled people calling for 9/11 truth as ” Non-Violent Extremists”.
To seek the truth is now an extremist position ?
Fascism has already arrived.
I am flabbergasted where ‘they’ find such idiots to warm the chairs & spout the nonsense of high office.
JD.

At least he labels them “non violent”. Which is more than our leader does to anyone who questions him.

Name one.

“…contemptible human beings”. Well that’s nice.

Perfect projection.

ShrNfr

Quite something coming from a family of crooked women exploiting, drug using/dealing, drunks isn’t it??

dry in california

He ought to know contemptible human beings since his family are prime examples

Greg Roane

Hey, at least we are Human! That is actually a step up, in most cases. LOL

Bill Williams

Interesting though that it is a crime to raise a false alarm, such as yelling “fire” in a crowded theater, and causing mass panic.

Cold in Wisconsin

Crying “fire” in a crowded theatre was provided as the exception to free speech in a famous US Supreme Court case. So the world is not a crowded theatre, but political decisions have consequences, and when “the jig is up” and the Climate Catastrophe is finally exposed, will the false prophets be held to account? Probably not, as their belief system is like a religion. It will be interesting to note what defenses will be given.

LeeHarvey

I took Bill’s point to be that inciting panic (in this case, over CAGW) is an exception to free speech, but RFK Jr. wants to make the sane counter-argument to a cry of ‘FIRE’ the illegal speech.

SMC

No defense is required. According to the gospel, any change in global climate, hotter or colder, is primarily influenced by the CO2 emitted by man. The CAWG church has covered their bases.

Mike in AZ

Actually there is a word left out tin that often quoted decision. The decision was that is was illegal to cry “fire” in a crowded theater FALSELY.
No worries though. The Day of Reckoning is coming.

Richard G

The defense of CAGW alarmists will be that it is a religion, not science and only requires faith to believe in, therefore they cannot be persecuted for their religious beliefs.

mrpeteraustin

Sigh. The ‘yelling “fire” in a crowded theater’ case was overturned 40 years ago, back when Global Cooling was the big scare. Please stop using it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/

Thank you very much for the link and education Mr. Peter Austin.

Steve P

Please at least render the argument properly. You omitted the critical word falsely yelling fire in a crowded theater, or any theater, for that matter..
You would just let them all sit there and burn?

Steve P

My mistake. You did say false alarm

jones

How about deniers having to wear some kind of identifying label or badge?
Would he agree to that as a measure?
I have the awful suspicion the answer is “yes”……………..
.
P.S. Could “contemptible human beings” be considered sub-human in any sense?
It is on that particular road isn’t it?…A “spectrum” of worthiness conditions as it were…

Jake

While this comment may be one of my personal favorites, I think we all need to be careful to start in with the Nazi parallels. The warmists have used that tactic for years, and there is no reason for us to go and slither in the gutter with them.

jones

Indeed Jake, I would tend to agree.
However, I am NOT actually saying he IS a Nazi but I don’t see why the question shouldn’t be put in the terms I have to at least get a sense of where his thoughts might lie.
Fair point though Jake.

TRM

“Sieg Heil Mein Furher” was exactly what I was thinking as well watching that. That whole “freedom of speech” thing is just so 1700s. I guess when they can’t win with facts, reason and logic they get violent.
First they ignore you, then they mock you, then the get violent with you, then you win.
So next step is that they lose and they know it. They are getting increasingly desperate.

Except that these people are gradually installing governments that think like they do. And eventually, they will get what they want, before “you win”.

Village Idiot

There’s been any number of Villagers, in their comments, requesting the jailing (or worse) of climate scientists. What’s good for the goose is, surely, good for the gander?

Ganders are already in jail, peeking on inmates.

Brute

Anonymous comments? Is that all you’ve got? Come on, please do better.

Jim South London

Me do better. Just let Wasted RFK junior do it all for me.

DirkH

Village Idiot
September 24, 2014 at 12:27 am
“There’s been any number of Villagers, in their comments, requesting the jailing (or worse) of climate scientists”
I don’t belive you. You’re a liar.

Village Idiot

A small and varied selection:
Ally E: Sooner or later Mann is going to go too far and find himself embroiled in a case he cannot back out of. As for him stalling other cases, I want to see him facing prison for contempt of Court
Blade: In my opinion every single person you listed there (plus a lot more) should be waterboarded, tried, convicted and sentenced to hard labor for attempting to and sometimes successfully defrauding the taxpayers
Tom J: Anyway, threaten all those who are depressed about global warming that their depression will have to be treated with Citalopram. Voila, the CAGW nonsense will cease to exist [Read comment to understand context]
richardscourtney: I have repeatedly pointed out that this global warming propaganda aimed at children is child abuse
DirkH: As AGW believers are the governments, they don’t need to be terrorists. They can use the taxpayer money they steal to fund terrorism if need be; in all other cases they can use police force and regular military to force the population to worship them

I don’t feel Alarmists should go to jail for holding their views.
However there are examples where they should perhaps face specific charges. For example, some of the temperature “adjustments” seem like “falsifying the public record,” and, “misuse of public funds.” If it could be proven that this was done for pay, under the orders of a politician, further charges might be brought.
The charges would have to be specific, and the charged person would have their day in court, and allowed all the benefits of due process of law.
Never would it be a case of jailing a person for having an opinion.

John Endicott

Village Idiot,
Well you certainly live up to your name if you can’t see the difference between calling for people who commit actual prosecutable offenses (fraud, abuse of the court system, etc) face the consequences of their actions vs calling for people to go to jail simply for the crime of having a contray opinion

DirkH
In support of your untrue assertion that

“There’s been any number of Villagers, in their comments, requesting the jailing (or worse) of climate scientists”

you say

richardscourtney: “I have repeatedly pointed out that this global warming propaganda aimed at children is child abuse”

Yes, I have repeatedly pointed out that it is child abuse to tell children that their pets will be drowned, their homes destroyed and they will be separated from their parents and, therefore, it is child abuse to show children the adverts and films which say that.
My statement is a clear and unambiguous assertion that such evil adverts and films should not be directed at children.
My clear and unambiguous statement is not – and is nothing like – “requesting the jailing (or worse) of climate scientists”.

If somebody objected to a pornographic advert for baked beans then that would not be a request for the jailing (or worse) of people who grow beans.
Richard

DirkH
SINCERE APOLOGIES.
My post should have been addressed to ‘Village Idiot’ and not you.
Please accept my humble apology for the error and for the insult.
Richard

Climategate contains evidence of possible criminal acts – Phil Jones escaped prosecution, according to the UK Information Commissioner, because a ridiculously short statute of limitations for the law he is alleged to have broken.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_documents
“The Information Commissioner’s Office stated that “the prima facie evidence from the published e-mails indicate an attempt to defeat disclosure by deleting information. It is hard to imagine more cogent prima facie evidence. … The fact that the elements of a [FOIA] section 77 offence may have been found here, but cannot be acted on because of the elapsed time, is a very serious matter.””

Lance of BC

Hey IDIOT, these comments(and worse) started with climate/alarmist/polys for years , I’ve been told I should be killed just for posting data on blogs years ago, so go [snip] your gander.

My local paper thought it would be funny if I got killed. I no longer even look at my local papers that arrive at my door. They have ostracized me.comment image

Village Idiot:
“Any number” of comments??
Add me to the list of those who think you are a liar. I’ll retract and apologize — if you can post credible examples, comparable to the despicable R.F. Kennedy’s comment.

Brute

He can’t or he would have. The fact is that questionable anonymous comments (if they exist at all) could have been planted by the village idiot himself.

CodeTech

I would like to see people who have misused public funds and lied, and falsified/altered data, and created an exaggerated warming where there is none be forced to pay back the public funds they used, or do jail time as an alternative. I believe that people who have broken laws and lied should be in jail.
In contrast, these nutcases believe that people they DISAGREE WITH should be in jail.
In the same way, I believe in all of the free-speech possible. It outs nut-jobs, because they never know when to stop talking. These nutcases would block my ability to speak.
It’s bizarre that any thinking non-trolling human would think otherwise.

David A

plus one
DB, this is the criteria. A call to prosecute those who knowingly withheld data, or presented knowingly false data, and in affect caused public policy demanding monetary assets from innocent citizens, is radically different then calling for someone to be jailed just because they disagreed. (So please do not apologize if the only examples found are calls to prosecute fraudulent behavior.)

You said it very well. There is a distinction that must be made between jailing someone for having an opinion, and jailing someone for specific deeds, (such as falsifying data or misusing funds.)

Dave

you are right

hunter

Village Idiot represents the idiot faction quite well.

JohnWho

Doesn’t represent the village so well though.

Hawkward

Wait, so you’re comparing postings on a message board to something said in a news interview by someone who not only is a leader in the “green movement”, but is a member of a very prominent political family? Uh, okay.

beng

No, they should be tried for fraud, racketeering and taxpayer-money laundering. Let the juries decide the punishment.

BFL

Yes, here is one: http://www.weather.com/news/science/environment/epa-climate-policy-expert-sentenced-32-months-fraud-20131219
The EPA’s highest-paid employee and a leading expert on climate change was sentenced to 32 months in federal prison Wednesday for lying to his bosses and saying he was a CIA spy working in Pakistan so he could avoid doing his real job.
Beale pled guilty in September to bilking the government out of nearly $1 million in salary and other benefits over a decade. He perpetrated his fraud largely by failing to show up at the EPA for months at a time, including one 18-month stretch starting in June 2011 when he did “absolutely no work,” as his lawyer acknowledged in a sentencing memo filed last week.
When Huvelle asked Beale what he was doing when he claimed he was working for the CIA, he said, “I spent time exercising. I spent a lot of time working on my house.”
He also said he used the time “trying to find ways to fine tune the capitalist system” to discourage companies from damaging the environment. “I spent a lot of time reading on that,” said Beale.
Prosecutor Jim Smith said Beale’s crimes made him a “poster child for what is wrong with government.”
——————————————————————————————————————–
Then there is this: http://johnosullivan.wordpress.com/2012/06/14/un-climate-scientists-plead-for-immunity-from-criminal-prosecution/
Climate researchers working for the United Nations have issued an astonishing plea for immunity from prosecution. Government-funded personnel sought the ruling on the eve of the latest round of international climate talks scheduled for Rio de Janeiro, Brazil (June 20, 2012).
The United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) issued it’s formal request for immunity from prosecution to “protect” researchers who have provided “evidence” supportive of the man-made global warming scare story. The perplexing plea will likely reverberate throughout the general scientific community as further affirmation that many climate scientists were not conducting honest research after all.

Anyone got the latest Iphone 6 .

Well i think anybody who refuses to give up their latest Iphones and cars
to save the planet should also be jailed for crimes against the planet

and their Saudi owned private luxury super yachts to take down to Rio to watch the World Cup.

William Astley

Leo DiCaprio seems to be the poster boy for conspicuous in your face consumption. There is no issue with global warming, there is an issue with over consumption of the world’s resources. How much is Leo’s fair share?
Curious that DiCaprio is a spokesperson for the AGW movement. Well may be not, Al Gore is another spokesperson.

Leo’s burgeoning property empire: DiCaprio has spent $23 MILLION on three properties since February including Manhattan apartment with vitamin C showers and a ‘wellness concierge’
Leo DiCaprio has invested more than $23 million in properties since February
His latest purchase is a $10 million apartment at the health-centric Delos building in New York’s Greenwich Village
It boasts posture-supportive heat reflexology flooring and ‘dawn simulation’ provided by a circadian lighting design
In March the actor spent $8 million to purchase a two-bedroom apartment adjacent to his existing $4 million home in Battery Park City
The actor is reportedly currently living in the $8 million unit with his 21-year-old model girlfriend Toni Garrn
In February he spent $5.2 million on a six-bedroom mansion in Palm Springs, California

https://www.google.ca/search?q=leonardo+dicaprio%27s+house&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&biw=1920&bih=903&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rwojVOKfD67wigKn9oCgBg&ved=0CBwQsAQ

DirkH

William Astley
September 24, 2014 at 11:29 am
“Curious that DiCaprio is a spokesperson for the AGW movement. ”
Thanks for the details. Looks like he’s as money savvy as MC Hammer. We need guys like him to work for the climate confessors. It undermines their cause better than any climate model failure.

William Astley

Leo Dicaprio is the UN Messenger of Peace for climate change issues. Hypocrite or not, that is the question? The UN and the EU sounds like a great private club. How does one join?
http://dailycaller.com/2014/09/21/leonardo-dicaprio-pauses-private-jets-yachting-with-oil-rich-sheikhs-to-join-peoples-climate-march/

At the very beginning of this summer, in mid-June, DiCaprio jetted into Brazil on a private plane to take in the opening match of the 2014 World Cup.
While in Brazil, the 39-year-old plump playboy stayed on a 470-foot yacht owned by Sheikh Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan of Abu Dhabi, according to Arab News. The glitzy yacht, called the Topaz, is the fifth-biggest yacht on earth. The fancypants vessel boasts a gym, a movie theater, two helipads and three swimming pools.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/16/leonardo-dicaprio-messenger-peace_n_5830564.html

… Leonardo DiCaprio Named UN Messenger Of Peace Ahead Of Climate Summit
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon announced on Tuesday that the 39-year-old American actor will join 11 other prominent world figures who advocate on behalf of the U.N. as Messengers of Peace including Stevie Wonder, Michael Douglas, George Clooney, Brazilian author Paulo Coelho, primatologist Jane Goodall and conductor Daniel Barenboim.
Ban told a news conference that the Dicaprio “is not just one of the world’s leading actors” but he has “a longstanding commitment to environmental causes.”
He said DiCaprio will focus his U.N. role on climate change issues.
“His global stardom is the perfect match for this global challenge,” the secretary-general told a news conference.

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/mhj45ieme/leonardo-dicaprio-2/

Leonardo DiCaprio
The actor owns properties on both coasts. His Tinseltown compound lies in the Hollywood Hills, comprised of two adjoining land parcels (one purchased from Madonna ) and touting a massive basketball court the movie star built. He also owns two Malibu beachfront homes, including a seven-bedroom Malibu Colony home asking $75,000 per month in rent. In New York City, DiCaprio inhabits a apartment in eco-chic Riverhouse, a Battery Park City condo that pumps out twice-filtered air and filtered water to residents, who include Tyra Banks.

Di Caprio is only one hypocrite. He was preceded in Copenhagen during COP-15 by another hypocrite, Brad Pitt:
http://www.stephentaylor.ca/images/brad-pitt-copenhagen2.jpg

Who ever really owns it, impressive, ten marine diesel engines, count them stacks! It also has knobs!
“A capital ship for an ocean trip. Was The Walloping Window Blind; No gale that blew dismayed her crew. Or troubled the captain’s mind…”
W^3

Dave

yes, the challenge to them is to turn off the electricity completely, after all, 90% of the world’s electricity is produced by coal fired power plants. ergo, turn off your electricity and the bad coal fired power plants will shut down. just a theory. but lets see if the super rich will turn off the power, or that just the responsibility of us little people??????

Jack

One of the benefits of freedom of speech is that cranks like this easily identify themselves. Clearly he is a very shallow reader and just accepts any bs pushed at him. Well the world moved past people like him thousands of years ago. I can imagine him saying fire is too dangerous. People who advocate fire should be kept in a cave. Nothing wrong with raw dinosaur meat and raw seeds.
He does not seem to grasp that the world advances by asking questions not by blocking them.
That is the fatal flaw in warmist post modern science. They thought they could impose silence and avoid questions on their manipulated data.

Andrew N

What is actually happening is we are denying him his right to a green lifestyle paid for by others. Never trust a cornered rent-seeker.

What do you expect from a scion of a criminal clan?

From a successful criminal clan? A little more intelligence.

dp
David Ball

Read further upthread.

dp

I never read comments before responding to the article as I don’t wish to be influenced by what I read. I certainly don’t wish to be censured by peer pressure before I’ve even written my response. Otherwise I’m not expressing myself but expressing others through myself. What is the point of that?

cnxtim

Is this Camelot Clansman still in the party called “democratic” ? If so, strongly suggest he Googles up the meaning of the word…

It is not called the “democratic” party. It is called the “democrat” party.
It rhymes with “rat.”

and scat.

dp

And twastard. Just not very well.

Malcolm

The guy doesn’t look very well at all.

mikewaite

You have to feel sorry for him . He will never be the man his father was and he has to live with that fact all his days . His father’s assassination permanently disabled him mentally. There is a thoughtful essay in National Review on his comments that is both condemning , but also fairly sympathetic to RFK’s mental state.
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/388595/robert-kennedy-jr-aspiring-tyrant-charles-c-w-cooke

mikewaite
I suspect you may be right when you say

You have to feel sorry for him . He will never be the man his father was and he has to live with that fact all his days . His father’s assassination permanently disabled him mentally.

However, compassion for him does not include ignoring or accepting his words.
His words are likely to be noticed and unthinkingly agreed by some because his family and fortune convey respectability to him.
But his words are vile. They are an attack on the human Spirit. People and peoples develop, advance, and correct their errors by considering the views of others. Often the consideration confirms existing opinion, but sometimes it indicates need for adjustment of existing opinion. Refusal to allow consideration of other views prevents improvement of existing views and, thus, it solidifies things being ‘as they are’.
Stultifying change and development may be desirable for those such as Robert F. Kennedy Junior who are ‘born with a silver spoon in the mouth’. All others have reason to oppose it.
Richard

Jim South London

Someone haunted by past family tragedy and past drug abuse that excuses the attitudes of an arrogant green bandwagon jumping pathetic whinging egotist who cant live up to the long gone stellar reputation of his family dynasty.

kenw

Privilege and arrogance are in the genes, it started with his grampa who used his gov’t position to smuggle rum during the prohibition, then used that wealth to buy his 2nd favorite son the presidency, using his dead oldest & favorite son as a sympathy vehicle. Had JFK not been shot he would have gone down as one of the worst presidents in history all the while making Clinton look like a saint morally. But Oswald secured the sympathy factor for perpetuity. Poor RFK (Sr) was just an also ran in a genetic cesspool, no real talent nor malice, just lukewarm nothingness carrying a mantle that he didn’t understand. Some say RFK Sr was more sensitive and at times embarassed by his family’s legacy of crass corruption and moral hypocrisy.

dp

Brilliant.

dp

Ooopsy – that was to be a reply to mikewaite

mpainter

I expect it to get worse. As the so-called pause continues and frustration mounts, you will see more and more of this sort of stuff.

latecommer2014

Peter I will give you the respect of believing that you speak truthfully for yourself, but I don’t believe your option of the run of alarmists is correct. Most “scientists” on your side have too much at stake personally to change. They do not show a hint of proper scientific attitude where being proven wrong is a victory for science.
Now a couple of questions.
Where in the observational record have you ever found proof that co2 rises before temperature in the atmosphere?
Where is your proof that 2 degrees of warming is detrimental to anyone or thing?
I would also like your opinion on my belief that “your side” uses outright lies and fabricates evidence in the name of the greater cause. Do you consider this practice science?

Man Bearpig

He wishes there were a law to lock up innocent people ? This guy is dangerous.

It’s called the Drug War, and happens all the time. Even growing plants is now illegal.

RockyRoad

My cousin’s son is addicted to marijuana. I’ve seen it destroy his life. I wouldn’t say such drug use is “innocent”.

This guy is dangerous.
That kind of thinking is dangerous. What we often see here is the evil side of human nature.
Machiavelli wrote, “Men are bad unless compelled to be good.” The Enlightenment was an attempt to overcome this sort of evil thinking. It only partially succeeded. Now, things are going the wrong way again.
Is there really any fundamental difference between R.F. Kennedy and the ISIS savages, brutally murdering people by the hundreds at a time simply for the ‘crime’ of being drafted into the army? Sawing off heads just because they can sets an excellent example for everyone. It would probably work with deniers, too.
Kennedy isn’t really much different. You can tell he’s filled with rage. If he could get away with it, I have little doubt that he would saw off a few heads himself, to set an example. To save the planet, of course. What are a few heads by comparison to that great good?

RockyRoad

One could easily argue that the CAGW movement has already killed far more people than ISIS could ever hope to kill.
And they did it innocuously and without knives.

Captain CO2 Di Caprio

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy,_Jr.
Using drug and probably alcohol abuse to excuse the attitudes of an arrogant pathetic whinging egotist.

DirkH

Terry Gilliam wants capitalists to be shot (*); so RFK is relatively sane on a scale of genocidal ambitions. He only wants to jail skeptics to exploit them in the US prison-industrial complex. As opposed to Stalin’s Gulag, you are not worked to death there within three years. So that’s some progress amongst the progressives.
(*) http://www.breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2014/09/22/Filmmaker-Terry-Gilliam-Short-Sighted-Capitalists-Should-Be-Shot

The precedent was set with Prohibition. “We don’t like your choice of intoxicants and if you continue we will jail you.” Intoxicant prohibition is a declining force. Other ideas for the use of all those SWAT teams will arise.

You beat me to it. I just said the same thing above.

The sad thing about Prohibition is that it made respect for the Law shrink.
The Law, if written by the people for the people, should be honored even if you disagree. You can change the Law in the USA by democratic processes.
It is interesting to note that the Kennedy fortune was founded, to some degree, on bootlegging. When the roots feed from a soil of disrespect for the law, it is hard to grow branches and fruit that respect the law, unless it is a far less civilized law-of-the-jungle.
There is even some evidence that John Kennedy’s election as president was based on voter fraud in Chicago. The law of one-vote-for-one-man was not respected. Democrats were not democratic.
The law as written by our founding fathers is beautiful and worthy of respect. Those that mock it have never come up with a better system, and usually create a system that, one way or another, leads to ruin for themselves, and also their children and grandchildren.
I hope the Kennedy’s keep this all in the family, and don’t drag down others as they reap what they have sown.

Jim South London

Sorry Peter but you cheered zealous idiots like him and Al Gore on in the first place.Are you the Hugh Hefner complaining about Climate Porn being too explicit.
Want to jump off the overloaded AGW band wagon before the wheels fall off.

kenw

You learned about JFK, Jr from Wikipedia? Well, I hope you don’t do your legal research there….

RockyRoad

Yes, Peter…. JFK Jr. deserved no cheering, especially at his FUNERAL
LOL!

Dominic A

when you jail someone for what they think or what they believe it’s called Fascism.

Well, they imprisoned Galileo for claiming the earth went round the sun not vice-versa as was the then current belief. So what’s different now, lets imprison all those who have the audacity to challenge the current belief. A good historical precedent!

Owen in GA

They jailed Galileo for mocking the pope. The science stuff was just an excuse.

dudleyhorscroft

Actually he wasn’t mocking the Pope – it is just that the Pope thought he was – which is even worse!

RockyRoad

It wasn’t mocking. He just said the Pope was wrong.

William Astley

Extreme environmental groups are using AGW and their belief in the green energy fairy tale to push policies that will lead to the economic collapse of the developed countries if our politicians do not stop this anti CO2, green scam, anti industrial development madness. Extreme environmentalists do not understand what the problems are and most certainly do not understand how to solve the problems.
Ironically if CO2 emissions and AGW were a real problem which they are not, nuclear power would be the solution. Regardless, nuclear power is the long term energy solution and money spent on optimizing the US fourth generation reactor design will smooth the eventually transition and will create real jobs, rather than dot.com jobs that disappear when the money feeding the madness runs out (see US conversion of corn to ethanol for a great example of green madness)
Green energy is a scam. It does not work from an economic or an engineering standpoint. We have wasted trillions of dollars on green scams which have resulted in almost no significant reduction in CO2 emissions. Jim Hansen quote:

Suggesting that renewables will let us phase rapidly off fossil fuels in the United States, China, India, or the world as a whole is almost the equivalent of believing in the Easter Bunny and [the] Tooth Fairy.

P.S. CO2 emissions are not an environmental or a climate problem. There is however real need for viable, safe long term, energy source.
Intermittent and in the case of wind random energy sources cannot substantially reduce CO2 emission. To significantly reduce CO2 emissions, intermittent energy sources require energy storage which increases the cost of the system by more than a factor of 10 if there was a energy storage system that could store sufficient energy which there is not. Engineering problems (see bearing problems in large wind turbines for a good example of an engineering problem that is not going away) do not disappear because you ignore them. There are no magic wands that to solve engineering problems. Throwing more money at the green scam will not change them into viable solutions. Sometimes there are unsolvable, limiting engineering problems.
The US tested a fourth generation nuclear reactor design in 1988. The fourth generation reactor design is fail safe and will shut down on loss of cooling power. The prototype design tests were successful. Power was shut off to the reactor cooling system, the prototype reactor shutdown in a controlled manner, as it is fail safe. The fourth generation design used liquid sodium for cooling and is hence not pressurized.
The US fourth generation nuclear reactor design will roughly a 1000 times more energy per pound of uranium as it it can fission U238 in addition to U235 (and almost all other fissionable materials) and produces roughly a 100 times less radioactive waste as it fissions all most all fissionable material in the reactor.
There is sufficient fissionable material readily available to power all countries on the earth for roughly a billion years, using fourth generation nuclear reactors.
http://pandoraspromise.com/
Break Through: From the Death of Environmentalism to the Politics of Possibility

David in Michigan

“Ironically if CO2 emissions and AGW were a real problem which they are not, nuclear power would be the solution.”
So true, so true. And this is the root cause of my skepticism. If you accept AGW is a problem, why would you reject the quickest and surest solution?

PiperPaul

Perhaps a solution is not the goal.

LeeHarvey

Because you’re an acolyte of Paul Ehrlich?
“Giving society cheap, abundant energy … would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun. – Paul Ehrlich”

Pamela Gray

This man’s emotional ability to unbiasly examine evidence was cruelly removed from his persona, not once but three time, by those who wished to stifle free speech and the exchange of sometimes radical ideas. While I look upon Camelot with a “say what?” attitude, the man must be allowed to present his opinions at will in a free nation. Let him speak his mind. It doesn’t bother me at all that he wishes I were cooling my redheaded (now admittedly from a cover-the-gray-box-of-dye) unruly Irish locks in jail. And this from a long time fascination with the Kennedy (green clover Irish) and Bouvier (Royal Dutch and proud of it) family dynasty. A biography of the Bouvier family was my first biography read as a Jr High student in Lostine, Oregon. I’m Catholic, it was required reading.
And for those of you desperate for minutia, the second biography I read was about Tom McCall, titled “Ranch Under the Rimrock”. As it turns out, life is for me, stranger than fiction.

alacran

Unbelievabel! What an Eco-Fascist ! Oh Lord, please help him,let raining brain!

Roy

Any Greens in favour of free speech?

CodeTech

Absolutely. Greens are completely in favor of free speech for Greens. Everyone else should be in jail.

He ( & those of similar “opinions”) must be feeling very insecure in their beliefs to come out with these comments.

Peter Miller

Just been reading this guy’s biography on Wikipedia.
In the great scheme of things, he would probably be classified as a C3 type of human being. Born with a silver spoon in his mouth, behaves like a spoiled brat, has the morality of a rodent and can therefore be safely classified as someone whose opinion is utterly valueless.
I am pleased he supports the alarmist cult, I would not like to have him on our side.

Death to Green Fascists

[Snip. Please use a legitimate email address. ~ mod.]

mpainter

Moderator, please note this bloggers cognomen. You may delete this also.

Boulder Skeptic

Death to…,
I’m a skeptic and probably on “your side” on many parts of this issue. But regarding your screen name…really? Not much different than what alarmists are saying is it? The mindset you have reflected in this screen name is not helping, in my opinion. Consider modifying it.
Thanks,
Bruce

latecommer2014

Amen brother

Mike McMillan

He always gotten a lot of mileage from someone else’s name.

Jimbo

“I think it’s treason. Do I think the Koch brothers are treasonous — yes, I do,” Kennedy told Climate Depot.

Koch has done more for the United States of America (and the world) than Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. People like this should be very careful as to how history might view them. What if we entered another Little Ice Age? Has he bothered to look at the IPCC’s projections graphs and compared them to observations?

Robert Francis Kennedy Jr.—the son of former New York senator and U.S. attorney general Robert F. Kennedy—is an attorney, environmental activist and syndicated talk radio host.”
http://www.biography.com/people/robert-f-kennedy-jr–20832775
============
Koch Industries conglomerate involved in a variety of industries such as refining and chemicals; service process & pollution control equipment; minerals; fertilizers; fibers and polymers; commodity and financial trading; forest and consumer products; ranching; and business development. In December 2013, the company acquired Molex International, an electronics components company. Significant divisions included Georgia-Pacific, which makes and sells tissue, packaging, paper, building products and pulp, and Flint Hills Resources, which operates refineries in Alaska, Minnesota and Texas. The company employs 60,000 people worldwide.”
http://www.forbes.com/companies/koch-industries/

mpainter

Yes, it appears that Peter let slip a telling comment- it is the “cause” that is paramount and their science is the means to its realization.
Peter, you hardly speak like an attorney.

mike

Is it just my opinion or is that AGW scam becoming more and more like the nationalsozialism of the 1930s?
Because the only thing of which the AGW propaganda is different to nationalsozialism is that “scepicism” is still allowed.

hunter

Your opinion is certainly reasonable when one considers history.

DirkH

Propaganda is an American invention; Goebbels’ favorite book was the 1928 book Propaganda by Edward Bernays.
Bernays in turn was advisor of Woodrow Wilson during WW I and shaped Wilson’s reputation as the bringer of democracy in the run up to the Treaty Of Versailles.
He also turned women into smokers. Which was his first big success.

Steve P

I’m not so sure that propaganda is an American invention. Rather, I think it is just the Yankee version or interpretation of an ancient art. Surely you don’t think Americans were the first to tell lies to befuddle the masses, promote their geopolitical agenda, eliminate rivals, or stir up trouble between potential foes?
Consider Freud’s comment to Jung upon their arrival in the US for a series of lectures in 1909:

They don’t realize that we are bringing them the plague.

It is likely that Bernays was coached by his uncle, Sigmund Freud.

dp

The word predates the United States. It even predates Columbus.

H.R.

Gilt guilt on display. Just don’t take it out on me.

Claudius

Typical, promotes inclusion and diversity and tolerance to the extreme. Alter the topic of conversation just slightly, instant psychopath.

James (Aus.)

Kennedy; you can take the boy out of the bog, but you can’t take..etc.
What an appallingly ignorant and evasive piece of bad form. Where the far right of National Socialism meets the far left of International Socialism is where this addled clown lives.
Apart from the stupidity of his assertions, his personal manner is straight from Slobsville; you could almost feel the disdain and revulsion Michelle had for him.

ConfusedPhoton

The problem with Robert F. Kennedy is that he is a nobody within the famous Kennedy dynasty. Joe Kennedy senior, Rose Fitzgerald, JFK and Bobby Kennedy all made their mark in the US and the world. These people were all well known throughout the world, but who can name any of the later Kennedy’s (perhaps Teddy for the wrong reasons).
Clearly this man is trying to make up for his own inadequacies.

CodeTech

CP, although you are right, of course, I have never seen any reason to believe that rfk jr. is capable of ever, EVER realizing that he has inadequacies.

ConfusedPhoton

Point taken!

LeeHarvey

Joe Kennedy made his mark on the world?
Was that before or after profiteering in the ilicit alcohol trade during Prohibition?

Tucci78

And yet when I suggest that there is justification for investigating the various catastrophist charalatans of the so-called “consensus in climate science” on the grounds that they have knowingly uttered falsehoods in their applications for research grant funding – in other words, that they have arguably perpetrated criminal theft of value by way of fraud – the various fellahin of the Church of Global Warming sputter and fume about how outlandish such a reasonable suspicion (especially in light of the collusive communications among these quacks revealed by way of Climategate and other FOIA information gains) is somehow supposed to be.

CodeTech

I suspect this is sorta like “But you found out through Stolen Emails”… as if there is some sort of rule about “illegally obtained evidence” when it comes to reality (ie, NOT the reality that lawyers live in). We are not allowed to know about Climategate. That is forbidden knowledge. Therefore the revelations obtained via Climategate did not, in fact, happen.

Lil Fella from OZ

Haven’t they heard of free speech in democracy. Obvious they belong in another country where they would be the ones jailed..

Brock Way

Climastrology-cum-McCarthyism

James Allison

There is more chance that my Aunties name is Bob than you being an attorney. Take your lies somewhere else.

latecommer2014

By saying “your cause” you are removing yourself from the scientific debate. Causes are not part of science, but are part of politics. Please confine ” Causes” to your political blogs, they are not wanted here

latecommer2014

Obviously Peter you are not involved in science. If you were you would know that “causes” are not part of science. I once spent more than a year trying to prove a hypothesis of my own and was greatly successful. I proved my hypothesis had no basis in fact. I was very happy. That’s the way science works to eliminate false ideas.
No/sarc

latecommer2014

By the wayPeter, I truly wish you were right since I would love a warmer world such as the Roman period. I do not care for cold. Unfortunately your warming exists only in models, observation of natural processes has shown the failure (to date) of your cause. Are you going to hold on to the failure for some reason non scientific?

David Ball

Peter should watch “Inconvenient Truth”. It turned many people I know into skeptics.

D.J. Hawkins

John Kennedy Jr has been mouldering in his grave since 1999. His cousin, Robert Kennedy Jr is the enviro-wack job attorney.

jbkburack

We are witnessing here the decline and fall of a great American family dynasty. None too sane to start with, it has now descended into the long night of total lunacy.

Death to Green Fascists

[Snip. Please use a legitimate email address. ~ mod.]

mpainter

Moderator here is another. Please act.

Tucci78

At 4:18 AM on 24 September, Death to Green Fascists had cleverly quoted:

PJ O’Rourke put it best years ago, speaking of the dead Kennedys: “Two were shot, but under the most romantic circumstances, and not, as might have been hoped, after due process of law.”

…against which mpainter at 6:02 AM had inveighed:

Moderator here is another. Please act.

…apparently referring to mpainter’s earlier (5:59 AM) condemnation of this same poster:

Moderator, please note this bloggers cognomen. You may delete this also.

In support of anyone bright enough to pull up an applicable P.J. O’Rourke quotation on the subject of Clan Kennedy and its overall malevolent presence in American politics down through the decades, permit me to recommend to the moderator that Death to Green Fascists‘ ekename, while colorful and replete with warm sentiments, is not in itself a breach of the public peace (so to speak), and can hardly be looked upon as a violation of the site’s terms of service.
For does not death come to each man, and to every group of men, decent, honest, rights-respecting people and Cargo Cult Science watermelon sociopathic “Liberal” fascists alike?

The collegiate idealists who fill the ranks of the environmental movement seem willing to do absolutely anything to save the biosphere, except take science courses and learn something about it.
— P.J. O’Rourke, Parliament of Whores (1991)

kenw

exactly. Being shot was being kind to them and secured the sympathy factor. Too kind as the public never got a chance to see the ugly truth.

Brian

Jail? Isn’t that a little harsh?
Maybe they should just get two years of probation and 1,500 hours of community service.
Then again, they’re probably not as well connected as RFK, Jr.

Johanus

Jailing opponents of wacky government-sponsored environmental theories is not new.
In 1928, Trofim Lysenko, a previously unknown Soviet agronomist, claimed to have developed an agricultural technique, termed vernalization, which tripled or quadrupled crop yield by exposing wheat seed to high humidity and low temperature.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysenkoism
Lysenko’s theories of environmentally acquired characteristics were not compatible with the accepted theories of genetics in the West, but found greate political favor in the Communist party which ruled Russia at the time. For decades, Lysenkos’s opponents were hounded and ostracized, some were jailed and executed.

Lysenko was supported by the Soviet propaganda machine, which overstated his successes and omitted mention of his failures. This was accompanied by fake experimental data supporting Lysenkoism from scientists seeking favor and the destruction of counter-evidence to Lysenko’s theories. Instead of performing controlled experiments, Lysenko claimed that vernalization increased wheat yields by 15%, solely based upon questionnaires taken of farmers.

On August 7, 1948, the V.I. Lenin Academy of Agricultural Sciences announced that from that point on Lysenkoism would be taught as “the only correct theory”. Soviet scientists were forced to denounce any work that contradicted Lysenko’s research. Criticism of Lysenko was denounced as “bourgeois” or “fascist”, and analogous “non-bourgeois” theories also flourished in other fields in the Soviet academy at this time

In 1948, genetics was officially declared “a bourgeois pseudoscience”, all geneticists were fired from their jobs (some were also arrested), and all genetic research was discontinued. Nikita Khrushchev, who claimed to be an expert in agricultural science, also valued Lysenko as a great scientist, and the taboo on genetics continued (but all geneticists were released or rehabilitated posthumously). The ban was only waived in the mid-1960s.

Striking parallels to what is going on right now, which is on a much larger scale than Lysenkoism.

Stalin said name the man and I will name the crime. Easy peasy.

Peter, after watching the Kennedy video I decided to go underground. I did a search using “punish skeptics” and words like that, and I found a bunch of really scary comments and articles by people who otherwise would be considered normal.
One of the comments was by a lady professor (Norgaard) who felt I was crazy if i didn´t believe in the IPCC reports, and my lack of faith required treatment by the appropriate medical personnel equipped with the latest mind bending and altering drugs.
Then there was a guy who wrote I should be executed. Another wrote I should be put in jail (that´s nice). The whole crew sounds like a bunch of bin Ladens with a very serious religious mania.

Death to Green Fascists

[Snip. Please use a legitimate email address. ~ mod.]

latecommer2014

Yes, I will. Do you know any “green fascists”? I know fascists from history, and they all took suicidal paths. Eventually they collapse on their own. Personally I ignore their opinions since I know they are very good at self distruction.

mpainter

I will comment. Peter, I am surprised that such a cognomen would pass moderation. This name is new on this blog and I suspect its origin. I deplore its use on this blog.

RockyRoad

Did you write that to use as an undeniable straw man, Peter?
You cad, you.

arthur4563

RFK Jr is the same liar who claimed at the time of Katrina that it would just be the start of a
massive wave of more and bigger hurricanes. What about the hardships he caused by persuading homeowners to sell their coastal properties at losses on the basis of his words?

Silence the cries of integrity and freedom – that is how the roaches work.

Cheshirered

A sure sign they’ve lost the central global warming argument.
We’re seeing this more and more; intentionally bogus projections of false allegations followed by these geniuses revealing their chosen way of ‘solving’ the imagined problem.
If there was an up-to-date scorecard of climate & energy alarmism v realism, realists would be shown to be holding a huge, unassailable lead.
Hence desperate times call for desperate measures. He’s lost the greatest argument in politically-driven scientific history – and what’s more, he knows he’s lost.

Andyj

RFK jr. is not “green” at all.
For starters .. Six children..
[snip – no need to name the children -mod]
Imaging the size of each of their lifetimes carbon footprint multiplied by their offspring, then their offspring in turn. Entirely his fault.
I guess that makes him a liar in my book. It’s not the denier who should be on the stake for telling the truth. Its the loony who throws fireballs in his own wood houses… Which reminds me. His house..
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2765736/Robert-F-Kennedy-Jr-Cheryl-Hines-s-5-million-Malibu-mansion-complete-recording-studio-two-storey-tree-house.html
not a Solar pool heater or Solar panel in sight. I see he does not use a push lawnmower. Or bicycles. It’s a long way to go to NY. Did he take one of those coaches? Nah! He has a stinking great Lexus.
One commenter in this link said it well. “Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is notorious for leading the opposition to the Cape Wind project off Cape Cod in Massachusetts because it would supposedly spoil his view from the Kennedy Compound, when he’s not flying in private jets to warmer winter climates. … Hypocrisy, thy name is Kennedy.”

David A

When one’s ignorance is only exceeded by arrogance is a sad day.

rogerknights

“agnorance”

Mike H.

Roger, apt coinage.

inMAGICn

Someone may have a source, but, as I recollect, one of the Kennedy family objections was that the off-shore wind farm would interfere with sailing regattas.

arthur4563

Bill of Rights Public Enemy Number 1 : Bobby Kennedy Jr
How about all those insurance companies who stopped writing hurricane policies
in the Coastal areas partly because they believed Boby Kennedy’s predictions
of larger and more deadly and more plentiful hurricanes? In the decades since,
the absence of hurricanes has resulted in huge losses to those companies.
How about class action lawsuit against Kennedy? What about all those who
sold their property at a loss and had to move? They can join the lawsuit.
How about jailing those who deny that global warming has not happened
for 18 years? They are the real deniers.