Guest Post by Bob Tisdale
The numbers are rolling in…and they’re impressive in a odd way. Based on numerous news reports, somewhere in the neighborhood of 310 to 400 thousand people participated in the People’s Climate March on Sunday, September 21, 2014 in New York City. The parade was, of course, a precursor for the U.N. Climate Summit 2014, which begins tomorrow.
Yet the results of the U.N.’s Global Survey for a Better World, also known as MyWorld2015, show “Action taken on Climate Change” at the very bottom…the abyss…of things that matter most to families around the globe. See the screencap below. If you haven’t had your say, you can take the survey here.
Looks like the 310 to 400 thousand people who marched in Manhattan yesterday have priorities that are out of touch with the rest of the occupants of this lovely planet.
Considering the object of the U.N. meeting, maybe the marchers should have been calling for “honest and responsive government“, which ranked much higher than climate.
I liked the huge turnout at Geraldton Western Australia in the rain. 23 idiots 3 children and a dog. Population of Geraldton 36,000. Tony Abbott the Australian Prime Minister will not be attending the U.N. Climate Summit 2014 he has better things to do.
That’s probably a truer estimate of the number of people genuinely concerned. Away from the hype and the big event only a couple of dozen people turn out to protest from a population of 36,000.
About the number I used to get for the annual general meeting of our local community council. So what’s with “the greatest threat to mankind ever”? Yawn!
And better things to do that waste the taxpayers money on a rehashed 19th century theory that has been debunked by facts.
“…paid to protest…”
The point is that this is not just a spontaneous gathering of people. I suspect that someone with considerable “community organizing” skill is behind it all, getting all these “folks” to show up and get so hyped up about impending CO2-induced catastrophes, when getting hyped up about ISIS and other impending global security threats would make more sense.
funny how these people do not march to demand a control on world population ,,, 6 Billion a decade ago just turned into 7 billion ,,, when are people that ‘care about the planet’ going to wake up to this disaster we are walking into as a species….
Campaigning to reduce the world’s populations, are you?
You are either claiming that other people must not live, or you must include yourself in the group to be reduced. Prove the strength of your convictions.
Are there tall buildings where you live?
Lead the way.
lol
Okay, I accept your challenge. Forget tall buildings. Leaves a carbon mess on the ground. Get yourself and any offspring snipped. Come on. Snip snip.
The planet could easily support double the current population. If the rest of the world were to increase it’s agricultural productivity to US levels, Tripling the population would be no trouble at all.
On the other hand, even the UN believes the world’s population is going to top out before 2050 and start falling rapidly.
The pop of the world could jump into Lake Superior with 14sq m (140 sq feet) each to tread water in; 80 billion could be cozy with 10sq feet. Now that would be a protest! Population is not a problem, although it would be nice if the haters decided to remove themselves from the gene pool.
Mainly because it isn’t.
And will be less so if we stop trying to keep the undeveloped countries undeveloped.
The UN itself claims that the earth’s population will peak at around 9 billion by mid-century and start to decline thereafter. Even at present we could give every human being currently alive ¼-acre of land in Australia and still have Tasmania left over not to mention the rest of the world. Of course it would help if we stopped using prime agrcultural land to grow diesel and stopped cutting down forests to feed power stations.
Jonny Old Boy, I think you hit on a very important issue, perhaps you should lead by example…..
Jonny Old Boy
September 22, 2014 at 3:52 am
“funny how these people do not march to demand a control on world population”
They demand socialism, which is the most effective population control the world has witnessed.
DirkH
You assert that socialism is “the most effective population control the world has witnessed”. Yes, and it is good to be able to agree with you for a change.
The reason socialism is so good at population control is that socialism grows wealth and improves affluence. And affluence reduces population.
There are several reasons why affluence reduces population. Of most importance is that poor people need large families as ‘insurance’ to care for them at times of illness and old age. Affluent people can pay for that ‘insurance’ so do not need the costs of large families.
The result is that the indigenous populations of rich countries decline. But rich countries need to sustain population growth for economic growth so they need to import – and are importing – people from poor countries. Increased affluence in poor countries can be expected to reduce their population growth with resulting lack of people for import by rich countries.
Hence, the real foreseeable problem is population decrease; n.b. not population increase.
All projections and predictions indicate that human population will peak around the middle of this century and decline after that. So, we are confronted by the probability of ‘peak population’ resulting from growth of affluence around the world. Indeed, we have already passed ‘peak children’ and the number of people aged under 16 years has been declining since the start of this century.
Richard
“The reason socialism is so good at population control is that socialism grows wealth and improves affluence. And affluence reduces population.”
I know about the affluence that a good Gulag builds, Richard.
DirkH
Yes, and socialists were rounded up and put in gulags by communists.
Fortunately soviet communism is gone.
Unfortunately a return of communism is threatened by events such as the ‘March’ which is the subject of this thread.
Very unfortunately there are ‘useful idiots’ whom communists confuse people about the immense differences between communism and socialism. And fascists also use ‘useful idiots’ to stealthily promote their politics by the same method.
Richard
richardscourtney
September 22, 2014 at 2:55 pm
“Very unfortunately there are ‘useful idiots’ whom communists confuse people about the immense differences between communism and socialism. ”
Well, according to a certain Karl Marx, socialism turns into communism when the socialist state dissolves by itself as it is no more needed; when the New Human has been successfully created. This was never achieved in the Soviet Union, therefore it was a socialist state.
There is no such thing as a communist state; communism is stateless.
Yeah I know I will hear some variation of the No True Scotsman fallacy now…
DirkH
You yet again demonstrate your ‘useful idiot’ status.
What Karl Marx claimed has been demonstrated to be wrong by subsequent history.
Socialists do NOT morph into communists as Marx claimed. You are free to be a good little Marxist if you want to be, but that does not entitle you to pretend that we socialists have to abide by the mistaken Marxist ideas you cite and promote.
Richard
@richardscourtney
“Socialism grows wealth and improves affluence. . . ”
Yeah, sort of like in France at this point, eh? Or Cuba? Or North Korea? Even Sweden, which encouraged its private sector to grow through reduced regulation and taxes in the 90s and 2000s? Europe is still in the ditch, fella, and it isn’t coming out likely any time soon until they abandon socialist methods, because as their working populations decrease their welfare states are going to come apart at the seams. But true believers like yourself refuse to believe anything they should easily see. I would characterize you as a useless idiot.
Suicide is the method to take this problem by the horns and solve it. Do it for Gaia
TRG September 22, 2014 at 2:55 am
It’s notable that the next to last item is political freedoms. It would seem that people make no connection between political freedom and being able to attain all the other important things in life.
B I N G O !
It’s also notable that shelter and clothing are missing from the list.
Yes, in today’s economy, a lot of people have to choose between shelter and clothing, settling mostly on shelter. However, once the economy gets going again, clothiers should make a killing as people replace ragtag items.
A hungry man craves food. The full belly man can’t think of it. As for freedom, it’s not missed (or appreciated) ’til it’s gone.
climate change is the most important situation facing humanity this century. If we don’t fix it now this century will be last habital one.
That would be ‘habitable’, I assume.
Can you provided some evidence for this extraordinary assertion? I’ve seen none so far.
You can’t fix climate change. The climate will change the way it always has. The good news is that you probably don’t have to worry about warming. The bad news is that you may have to worry about significant cooling. That’s much worse. We know from the historical record what happens when the climate cools: famine, war and pestilence. The best protection against it seems to be prosperity. Cheap energy is one of the keys to prosperity, in fact it may be a necessary condition.
Anyway, the historical record is also clear that, no matter how bad the climate gets, humanity survives.
Very well and succinctly put.
1 degree of warming is going to render the planet uninhabitable?
Even the IPCC has abandoned any pretenses of trying to claim the climate is going to warm much more than 2 degrees.
Really Richard? (Your name is Richard right? You just misspelled it didn’t you?)
Did you come to this conclusion all by yourself or did you hear it at the march where you handed out flyers for $50.-?
Richatd Punko
September 22, 2014 at 4:06 am
“climate change is the most important situation facing humanity this century. If we don’t fix it now this century will be last habital one.”
If the world were actually warming, which it isn’t since 1998, Canada and Siberia would become habitable and arable; introducing an age of abundance the world has never seen in the last 10,000 years.
Why do you people hate Canadians and Russians?
If all the tundra were forests, think of the CO2 they would eat.
UN IPCC Official Ottmar Edenhofer said:
But one must say clearly that we redistribute de facto the world’s wealth by climate policy…This has almost nothing to do with environmental policy any more.
richatd,read the above statement and realise climate change is the least of our worries.
“Climate change…most important situation…this century” – oh really? guess you haven’t met ISIS or Ebola.
Too bad.
name a single time in the past when climate did not change.
Have you ever heard about fault tolerant heap, stack overflow, and stupidity in computer science?
That is a really stupid thing!
Besides, the stupid way of wasting energy, goods, money and resources in this artificial non-sensitive way of life into which this society: consumerism society has engaged (NOT) all of us in a crazy way of life is really pounding the very foundations of the planet, this planet, the Earth, into which we all have to live (like it or not).
How many days would you survive breathing an atmosphere of sulphur dioxide?
Do you think a nuclear shelter would be a nice place to live into? For how long?
Just in case you do not know, look into a map of your choice where is the Atlantic Ridge, where is Iceland, and how the foundation of planet Earth was ‘built’ millions of years ago, and be sure to check the enormous tectonic scar in the bottom of the sea in the Arctic Ocean.
Oh! and check this articles:
http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2014/07/30/groundwater-depletion-in-colorado-river-basin-adds-big-risks-to-water-security/
https://gigaom.com/2014/09/08/lithium-the-salton-sea-and-a-startup-thats-trying-to-change-the-game/
There is a global emergency at Bardarbunga volcanic system, Iceland, right now, did’n your fault tolerant heap portable device send you any alert?
lernwareenglish, you’re not making sense.
hahahaha! Yea, the climate has never changed until this century. I love these neophytes.
Poor Richard. As you should know, assertions aren’t facts
22 Sept: Telegraph: Emily Gosden: Prince Charles: climate change is the greatest challenge facing humanity
“Even in a world full of daunting perils and crises, it is hard to imagine anything that poses a greater challenge and opportunity for humanity,” he will say.
His comments come in an address to political and business leaders in New York ahead of major international climate change talks, convened by UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon…
In a pre-recorded video address, the Prince shakes his head as he says: “We are running out of time – how many times have I found myself saying this over recent years?” …
In his video, Prince Charles says the world cannot “delay, regroup, prevaricate or wait for more and better information” and warns that tackling global warming will require “an unprecedented transformation of our communities, societies and lifestyles”.
He calls for renewable energy – such as wind farms and solar panels – to be “vastly scaled up”…
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/prince-charles/11110457/Prince-Charles-climate-change-is-the-greatest-challenge-facing-humanity.html
The people of the UK must pray God this idiot never assumes the throne!
aaannnd?
King Canute, you know the guy that ranks higher than mere princes, ordered the tide to go out.
Just like Prince silly you mentioned, the tide didn’t listen, nor does the climate listen to Price Charles.
King Canute is down in history as using the tide to teach his followers a lesson that being royal does not make one infallible or omnipotent. Oh and dear old King Canute ruled a greater area than just Great Britain.
+1
“Procrastinate” my liege…. “procrastinate.”
… although certain ones do prevaricate, equivocate and exaggerate as well…
You are right–and here’s an opinion piece that concludes the majority marching were for massive wealth redistribution:
http://washingtonexaminer.com/climate-justice-now-occupy-the-climate/article/2553752
It was a rally for “climate justice” in the old tradition of Occupy Climate. Just follow the money.
This is from June of this year…http://news.yahoo.com/meet-symbol-climate-change-200327912.html?bcmt=comments-postbox
If I was a Warmist PR operative and I had an aerial shot of 400,000 people on a demo, I would have it ALL OVER the media.
That’s all they could manage? They were busing them in from all over the east coast (saw a bus leave from a {shock} Walmart parking lot in Richmond.
I guess lots of people had a spare day and could use the $50. In this economy,. we all can use the money.
I notice that “Reliable energy at home” attracted almost 50% more votes…
I posted the following on the thread about paid marchers. I doubt that many were paid, but there were reportedly many organizations coordinated things, arranged for buses, etc.
An old friend who I heard from recently by email, a died-in-the-wool liberal, has this signature:
Note the phrase, “My activism at this point. . .” This is someone who defines herself by the putative causes she attached herself to. I doubt if she has the slightest clue that the science behind organizations like 350.org is completely fraudulent. Doesn’t matter: “The movement is taking off.” It’s where the action is. She’s basically a camp follower.
/Mr Lynn
Correction: “. . .there were reportedly many organizations THAT coordinated things. . ”
I wonder why my posts are lately getting sent to moderation. /Mr L
You used a bad word … fra..ulent.
Let’s see some pictures of all the litter left behind.
Here’s just a sample. Note the Greenpeace cup, LOL!
The “Environmentalists” at the Climate Change March Left a Gift Behind for New York
http://quixoteslaststand.com/2014/09/22/the-environmentalists-at-the-climate-change-march-left-a-gift-behind-for-new-york/
All this spitting back and forth doesn’t change the FACT that lots of misguided people showed up for the march, parade or whatever one wishes to call it. Score a hard-earned point for the climate change propaganda machine. Then move on to resume the tedious work of spreading the scientific truth of man-made global warming. One cannot credibly defend scientific facts on the one hand while denying the significance of a demonstrably large crowd having just gathered in New York on the other.
Claude Harvey,
I fear you are correct. No matter the reality of the numbers, paid or not, it will be “useful” for propaganda to herd the “idiots” in the right direction.
Way too easy for them. The education system has failed us. Go ahead and call me a conspiracist , but I also believe that is AS PLANNED to make the masses more easy to fool. As we are seeing demonstrated today.
all hail the sheeple.
Agreed. It is a fatal flaw to underestimate an adversary.
As I’ve written elsewhere here, 350.org and its cohorts have demonstrated their ability to organize and mobilize “over 1500” disparate groups for their so-called “ecosocialist” activities.
Tiny sampling of groups said to be participating in the People’s Climate March:
Codepink
CodePinkTN
Congregation Kol Ami, Elkins Park, PA
Collectively Free
College Democrats of Massachusetts
College Green Magazine
Columban Center for Advocacy and Outreach
Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health
COMFORT ZONE documentary
Coming Clean
Comite Dialogo Ambiental, Inc.
Committee Against Plutonium Economics
Committee of Interns and Residents-SEIU
Committees of Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism
Common Dreams
Communications Workers of America
Communications Workers of America, District 1
Communications Workers of America, Local 1180
Communist Party USA
According to Benjamin Friedman, only about 40,000 Jewish Muscovite Bolsheviks were required to seize control of Russia.
There is very little reason to think that the Communications Workers of America weren’t paid to be there, unions do very little without being paid, and sometimes they do very little even while being paid.
There is so much influence in demonizing the rich.
The CWA is a big backer of wind mills.
It just shows that Scottish journalist Charles Mackay’s “Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds” is just as applicable to today as it was in 1841 when published.
Farrakhan had a “million man march” (if you are to believe his numbers). They could not muster that many even busing them in from all over the country.
Now they’re claiming 400,000 MARCH IN NY. It’s on HuffPo. Jeezuss. That 2.75X the population of Syracuse. New Year’s Eve gets that kind of crowd. This didn’t.
Insanity is contagious.
Insanity looked like it was contiguous in NY . . .
Auto
The usual suspects, commies, hippies, luddities, and fools
http://reason.com/reasontv/2014/09/21/what-we-saw-at-the-peoples-climate-march
Good video, worth a look, if for no other reason than to see the guy right at the start with the gas mask and white gloves; as the camera pans back, we get a brief peek at his hat, which reads:
Truly, you can’t make up this stuff. Vonnegut would be impressed.
It looks to me like they’ve pretty much jumped on the socialist anti-capitalist bandwagon and showed their true colors. Global Warming to Climate Change. They don’t care what the facts are. This movement is quite large.
But the irony is that even though socialism in various forms eventually runs out of other people’s money as economies slowly (or quickly) descend via entropy to the dismal bottom, one true socialist country is doing quite well without the horrors of high taxes and unemployment.
That country is Norway. It’s small which helps but it is dependent on oil revenue to keep its economy going.
So Climate Change fanatics who wish to destroy capitalism are on their way to destroying socialism instead.
Hah!
I imagine the gross majority think CO2 is a pollutant and the world has been continually heating the past 20 years. When all people are inundated with are misrepresentations of the truth from their governments and media, its no wonder they feel this way. Sadly, individual research is the only way to have a well informed opinion, and I doubt there is much of that at all in those streets.
Good point–too bad there wasn’t a reporter (or contrarian) there to poll participants with a questionaire on their beliefs.
A good friend of mine maintains that the right to protest is the most important right we have in the free world. I tend to agree, but I also maintain that the right to mock protestors is just as important.
I would say that mocking protestors is also a form of protest.
What saddens me is the number of people who proclaim how important it is to protest, who would then turn around and ban any protests that they disagreed with.
It’s all free speech Jer0me. God bless America.
Assume the same techniques of data manipulation for this as for the temp data.
A note to those mentioning their proximity to the equator. I live 21° South of it, and I am still waiting to be able to don shorts comfortably again. I moved here because it was too cold further South this last decade, and I expect it to get cooler.
Those who succeed in pushing through mandated reductions in business ventures will get what they ask for. No one will have jobs thus no one will be using transportation of any kind. Fossil fuels will stay in the ground. Everybody will be ever so happy to sit around in squalid dense apartment buildings, communist-style. But tell me, watermelon-rich folks (such as Al Gore), who will be working your fields, washing your dishes, and wiping your butt in this imagined Shangri La?
Your friend in action:
http://new.livestream.com/unionseminary/AvaazClimateBreakfast
This is powerful, take care
I’ve seen it. I have a headcold and I don’t want any more headache. I have one thing to say to Al Gore:
Nuts
How does anyone know that 310-400,000 number’s accurate? What measure was used? The measurement system of public relations? Or the measurement system of impressivanatics? How about the measurement system of…?
Way back in the late 1970s the then Pope traveled to Chicago as part of a world tour. All the news services reported that a million people showed up. No one bothered to ask how a transportation system for a city of four million people could handle an additional one million people without freezing up solid. In reality an aerial count showed 75,000 people in Chicago’s Grant Park at the Pope’s visit there.
Remember all the Million Man Marches? They’re all gone aren’t they? They disappeared when that impressive number began to sound silly and self-defeating.
I’d take this 310-400,000 figure with a real grain of salt. Let’s see how it was derived first.
Are you serious? 35 spotters, eh? What, each of them counted approximately 10,000 people each, and there were no double, triple, or quadruple counts? And, of course, there was no personal enthusiasm adding to their counts?
Nonsense. What about an aerial gridded headcount? Can’t have that, can we? How about the additional buses pulling into NY’s massive bus station. How many additional schedules and lines were added to the Sunday public transportation schedules? What about garbage collection counts? – oh wait, they don’t collect garbage on Sunday.
Show me real numbers. Not a preconceived model.
Australian news media are quoting ~100,000 @ur momisugly NY.
I’m busy wondering why a one word comment might need moderation. I look forward to your dance.
Last night, (9-21-2014) around 9PM EST, I clicked into a Wall Street Journal article regarding the climate march and I checked out some of the march photos they presented.
At that time, the independent estimate for marchers was ‘tens of thousands’ while the march organizers were claiming 310,000 – 400,000 plus marchers worldwide.
11AM this morning and the article is changed. Gone is the independent estimate and now the organizers estimate is 400,000 plus marchers in New York City.
New York has access to experts who are quite capable of accurately assessing crowd sizes. They must, crowds require adequate preparations and precautions for safety, transportation, restrooms, food and police; otherwise disaster portends.
Where are the independent estimates with photographic evidence?
What objective person(s) in the world automatically accept estimates from organizers whose success depends upon those numbers? Objective! Remember to keep that word objective in perspective. Especially when we already know just how objective a number of those organizers are, (e.g. McKibbs bits).
While looking through the photos and reading the signage carried, I was a little surprised just why all those groups thought they were marching.
Steve P weighed in with a very short list of those groups attending the march. Quite a number of those groups carried signs that didn’t mention climate change; which I thought was interesting.
Supposedly 500 busses were used to drive protestors in from out of the city. Why? Those folks could’ve marched wherever they were from, saved carbon fuels, kept roads clear and ate their own food.
Based on other ‘350.org organized’ bus events I expect that protestors rode free and at least got free food and drink at the block party.
Described differently, the protestors brought in enjoyed a free trip to the Big Apple with food and drink even if every one of them were not paid to show up.
Bogus all around from specific marcher motives to marcher compensation(s) whether food, drink, free ride, monetary to the mathematically very anomalous marcher count.
‘Supposedly 500 busses were used to drive protestors in from out of the city.’
Only 500? If each of those buses hold 100 passengers each (I don’t think they do) that leaves us with a total of 5,000 out of towners. And, in my admittedly limited experience, most out of town protesters arrive by bus. Which is why the Pennsylvania Turnpike, and Washington, and the congested East Coast is set up for this. So, unless those other 395,000 protesters all harken from the direct New York area me thinks this, um protest, ain’t quite the biggee it’s claimed.
But, then again, those 500 buses could be special magic buses. Maybe they’re teletransportation buses. Expandable buses? Regenerating buses? Breed like rabbit buses? Who knows?
“Only 500? If each of those buses hold 100 passengers each (I don’t think they do) that leaves us with a total of 5,000 out of towners.”
Make that 50,000 (500 * 100). (But such buses probably hold only 60 people, so make it 30,000.)
Irrelevant. 311,000 or 3,100,000, it does nothing to prove or dis-prove AGW.
Going back to the march in Santa Fe….I was talking to a young marcher..teenager…I mentioned underwater volcanoes and that is what causing calfing on the small part of Antarctica not co2. He was surprised we have underwater volcanoes.He never heard of them…so much on our school science
Underwater volcanoes are certainly presented in standard geography text books. That your teenager didn’t read that chapter is not a reflection on teachers as much as it is a reflection on teenagers. By the way, under-the-ocean mountains are called seamounts. Many such seamounts are also volcanoes. My 5th grade writing club studied them.
I heard some people learn geography by declaring war. If undersea volcanoes had oil…..
With today’s emphasis upon “studies” that support everything from global warming to whether kids should have their tonsils removed, the largest void in high school science is regarding the basic skills needed to evaluate research validity. And I do believe some very basic skills could be taught at that level that would be very valuable and be no more difficult than pre-calc. I try to introduce such issues where time permits and where appropriate.
Underwater Volcanoes discriminate against South Sea Islanders.
Therefore, Underwater Volcanoes are RACIST and must never be discussed.