Story submitted by Eric Worrall
British Botanists conducting a Summer survey of Scotland’s tallest mountain, Ben Nevis, have been stunned to find evidence of recently formed multi-year ice fields, areas of compacted snow, some of which weigh hundreds of tons.
According to the BBC;
“Hazards common in arctic and alpine areas but described as “extremely unusual” in the UK during the summer have been found on Ben Nevis.
A team of climbers and scientists investigating the mountain’s North Face said snowfields remained in many gullies and upper scree slopes.
On these fields, they have come across compacted, dense, ice hard snow call neve.
Neve is the first stage in the formation of glaciers, the team said.”
The team has also encountered sheets of snow weighing hundreds of tonnes and tunnels and fissures known as bergschrunds.
Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-28885119
This is how ice ages start – a buildup of snow which does not melt in the Summer, which leads to a positive feedback loop, as the growing ice sheet reflects more and more sunlight back into space.
I hope it doesn’t affect the taste of my favorite single malt, highlands.
That the climate can change drastically in just a short period can be seen in these Scottish related excerpts. The first of which seems to indicate that glaciers are no stranger to Scotland.
1) “The reality of this period of cold is reinforced by this account from 1610 when John Taylor, talking of the hills around him in Deeside Scotland, remarked that “the oldest men alive never saw but snow on the top of divers of these hills both in summer as in winter.”
2) “Our modern bouts of amnesia regarding previous climatic conditions can be seen to be nothing new by reading the comments from the annals of Dumfermline Scotland from 1733/4, when it recorded that wheat was first grown in the district in 1733. Lamb wryly observes that was not correct, as enough wheat had been grown further north in the early 1500’s to sustain an export trade (before the 1560’s downturn).
This information also usefully confirms a warm period around that date, to one that had changed to a cold period by the time of Pastor Schaller commenting in 1560.
3) “A farmer from Buchan in North East Scotland, one of the snowiest parts of lowland Britain, wrote in the agricultural section of the local newspaper during the exceptionally mild winter of 1933/34.
“1934 has opened true to the modern tradition of open, snowless winters. The long ago winters are no precedent for our modern samples. During the last decade, during several Januarys the lark has heralded spring up in the lift from the middle to the end of the month. Not full fledged songs but preliminary bars in an effort to adapt to our climatic change.”
It then goes on to say;
“It is unwise to assume that the modern winters have displaced the old indefinitely”
and also; “Our modern winters have induced an altered agricultural regime”
——— —-
These taken from my article;
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/11/01/a-short-anthology-of-changing-climate/
tonyb
why is the story not on the BBC’s science and environment pages next to “Greenland ice loss doubles from late 2000s” and “Global warming slowdown ‘could last another decade'”?
tteclod said
‘In summer and autumn 2009, when I visited Scotland, some complained they couldn’t travel to the ski resort the previous season on account of poor roads. I later heard 2010 was a brutal winter. Can anybody provide more info about road conditions leading to ski resorts in Scotland? It seems to me that like Arkansas, the places may be beautiful, but it may be difficult to execute travel. ‘
In the early eighties we skied a lot in the Scottish ski resorts of which Aviemore is the best known. Skiing starts at 2000 feet and goes up to around 3500 feet.The skiing was excellent during that period but saw a decline soon after, attributed to climate change.
Generally speaking the road are kept well clear of snow but the last 2 or 3 winters have seen a return to the conditions of the early eighties. The road system was overwhelmed by snow. Its their livelihood so generally speaking the snow plough drivers are very hard working but sometimes nature will stop them working.
For context of snow and ice in Scotland through the ages see my post at 6.55 just above.
tonyb
David Johnson says:
“back in the 70s and 80s. It was nothing unusual to see patches of old hard snow that had survived the summer in North facing corries and gullies On one occasion, as late as August 1990, it was quite difficult to get to the start of my chosen climb on Ben Nevis because of a small bergschrund!”
Interesting–the definition of a glacier is a mass of snow, neve, and ice that shows signs of present of past movement. Among the evidences of movement is the formation of a bergschrund, a crack across the head of a mass of snow and ice where the lower part is moving away from stationary snow and ice above it. Without seeing it (doesn’t show on satellite imagery), can’t tell for sure, but if a bergschrund is persistent, this may actually qualify as a glacier.
Robert of Ottawa: “It seems to me that Ben Nevis is pidgeon portugues for Bens Neves, or good snows.”
======
That sounds about right. From the article:
“found on Ben Nevis […] compacted, dense, ice hard snow call neve.”
bene + neve
Found at “Good Neve” … neve. Surprise! 🙂
‘Known affectionately by hill walkers and climbers as ‘The Ben’, the origin of the name ‘Ben Nevis’ is disputed. Ben Nevis” is an anglicisation of the Gaelic phrase ‘Beinn Nibheis’. A beinn is a mountain – fair enough – but the definitive meaning of Nibheis is more elusive being variously understood as ‘malicious’ or a derivation of ‘neamh-bhathais’ (from Neamh meaning ‘heavens’ or ‘clouds’ and ‘bathais’ meaning ‘top of the head’. A literal translation of neamh-bathais would therefore be “the mountain with its head in the clouds’. The people of Fort William and particularly those who work in the local distillery will tell you it means “Mountain of Heaven” and since its waters are used to produce the Dew of Ben Nevis whisky, perhaps they are right.’
http://www.wanderingaengustreks.com/info-Ben-Nevis.htm
Alex Pope:
I enjoyed you presentation about polar ice cycle as a thermostat . It agrees very much with thoughts I have had. Regulation of our temperature is evident and vigorous, and many emergent phenomena such as storms and clouds contribute to the SST and it’s quite narrow record of change. Albedo is poorly represented, if at all in GMC’s giving them little value for predicting climate change. As you state they have the cart before the horse.
“It could even cause Scotland to tip over.”
Nah, more likely it would cause Scotland to break off from Great Britain. Oh wait, that’s could happen a lot sooner.
Well this proves it’s global anthropogenic climate change: Children will not know what warm is. The narrative continues.
Ben is the Scottish word mountain, but it sounds plausible that Neve would be a snow cap.
I meant to say “Ben is the Scottish word for mountain, but it seems plausible that Nevis would refer to a snow cap. “
It’s a Gaelic name, anglicised. The Nevis has nothing to do with the Latin derived words for snow that lead to neve.
http://www.wanderingaengustreks.com/info-Ben-Nevis.htm
It takes a botanist to find a Mammoth!
latecommer2014:
Thanks, The most recent ten thousand years has had a really tightly bounded temperature and sea level. For those who do not read my Theory, the temperature cycle looks just like the temperature cycle of a house, when the thermostat turns the cooling on and off as needed.
Temperature does not drift along an average like the Climate Model Output does.
Look at the actual data. Model Output does not look like real measured data.
With regard to the derivation of the name of the mountain Ben is the english spelling of Beinn meaning mountain, this is what wiki has to say
“Ben Nevis” is an Anglicisation of the Scottish Gaelic name “Beinn Nibheis”. “Beinn” is the most common Gaelic word for “mountain”, “Nibheis” is variously understood, though the word is commonly translated as “malicious” or “venomous”. An alternative interpretation is that “Beinn Nibheis” derives from “beinn nèamh-bhathais”, from “nèamh” “heavens, clouds” and “bathais” “top of a man’s head”. One translation would therefore be “the mountain with its head in the clouds”, though “mountain of Heaven” is also frequently given
As the area around the mountain is famous for rain I quite like the mountain with its head in the clouds
NB The Gaelic alphabet has only 18 letters, although vowels can have pronunciation changing accents. Amongst the missing letters is “v” so “bh” and to a lesser extent “mh” can be pronounced as “v”
Aye, that’s a wee bit inconvenient.
I don’t know whether this is an effect* of global warming or the start of an ice age, but I do know we are doomed either way.
(*I refuse to say “impact”.)
Scotland had a very wet and mild winter last year with predominant westerly winds from the Atlantic ocean, leading to huge amounts of snow for the highest mountains. It would be expected in this scenario for there to be more ice left in summer due to this situation than normal.
There are remnants of Gaelic in the German Language as well which gets mangled with English translation. My German made .357 revolver is spelled “Windicator” in the translated English paperwork it came with, but is pronounced “Vindicator”. The damn thing has a kick to it too. If you get close enough you will be dead even if it just grazes you, but at any distance and you’ld be safe from my shot. It has its place though. It’s my hallway shooter.
“Bruce Cobb says:
One site.”
That’s all that’s needed to shred earlier warnings about Scottish warming.
Now we know where all that missing ice from Greenland and Antarctica has gone (see:that most reliable of newspapers, the Guardian:
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/aug/24/incredible-polar-ice-loss-cryosat-antarctica-greenland
Actually, this ice in Scotland was put there by the Scottish National Party as a prerequisite to Scotland’s independence, since they would need some sort of tourist attraction to keep the money rolling in after losing the subventions from Westminster.
Some may think they were joking about Global Warming being essential to the start of an Ice age, but not so. There exists a good theory on these lines:
1 Cooling is not enough as with cold air there is not enough water vapour in the air to deposit a large amount of snow, needed for the ice to form.
2. Warming is not emough as while there is plenty of water vapour, it will not turn into snow.
3. Therefore what is needed is rapid warming (to get the water vapour in the air), followed by rapid cooling, (to get it to deposit large amounts of snow to turn into ice).
Witness the mammoths, who lived in a warm climate (witness the greenery found in their stomachs, from trees that do not now live in the area where the bodies were found) yet were quick frozen (witness the flesh was said to be so well preserved it was edible – by the dogs at least.
We haven’t quite got to this rapid heating plus quick deep freezing cycle yet, but wait, the Climate Scientists are coming!
There was fresh snow on some of the Scottish mountains the other day. I’ve never heard of fresh snow in August before.
The average Scotland temperatures are low enough in winter for this to get a start but the tallest “peak”, at 4000′, is 1000′ lower than my back yard. And even here the north facing slope of one of these hills at our place loses its snow by June. Temperature this morning 45 degrees F. Cannot yet see above the 7000′ hills, clouds too low, but I am certain there was a good snow fall up there last night, but then this is Wyoming! In past years even our glaciers have melted up at 12000′ to 13000′. Not so recently. This can be monitored from our livingroom window.
I am one betting on more cold to come for the next several or possibly many years. From all that I read here and other sites my bet is that this is a multivariate situation with oceanic oscillations, solar variations, winds, clouds and possibly undersea volcanism playing complex, intercorrelated, non-linear rolls, whose relationships are yet to be quantified, in the climatic changes we will see.
Khwarizmi says: August 24, 2014 at 7:13 am
More details at : http://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/docs/01/05/59/16/PDF/LODvsSSN.pdf
CR Carlson says:
August 24, 2014 at 5:08 am
The mountain “glaciers” here in the Colorado Rockys are not true glaciers in my opinion. They do compact and they do have some glacier like features but they don’t flow or carry any load of debris any distance. The St Mary’s glacier you mentioned is alive and well as I was on it from top to bottom this July. People still ski there too but I suggest anyone who does it should have a pretty good skill level as the bottom of the hill is somewhat rocky. It is true there are more carry over snow fields than I have seen in the past few years but the snow varies so much that you can’t take much stock as an indicator of climate. On the 4th of July in 2012, I believe that was the year, we climbed to one Front Range pass that had easily 10 meters of snow on the trail in several locations where we would usually expect open trail. I regularly visit one other “glacier” that is clearly a relic of what was a fully developed and flowing glacier that had filled the cirque about 8,000 years ago. I suspect the Scottish Highland glacier development is very similar to what we see in Colorado. Some areas have prevalent accumulation areas that may or may not last through the summer season. This year there is no doubt that there will be many snow fields in the Indian Peaks area that will carry over to the next snow accumulation.
“Global Warming stores heat in snow, that’s why we have this rapid build-up of ice. You gotta have ice to have heat. No, really…
-Joe Biden, 2nd Head Imbecile in Charge.