By Christopher Monckton of Brenchley
What is science for? Its end and object is to stretch out a fumbling hand for the truth by a humble and eternally-unsatisfied attempt to constrain uncertainties.
The scientific method is hungry curiosity, followed by acute observation, followed by careful measurement, followed by the meticulous application of pre-existing theory to the results, followed by the detailed drafting and reviewed publication of a hypothesis, followed by other scientists’ attempts to overturn the hypothesis, which is either discarded or slowly accorded credence to the extent that it has survived the process of error elimination.
In the physical sciences, absolute proof – which mathematicians call demonstration – is very seldom available. In mathematics, the art that is the language and the queen of the sciences, demonstration is more often available, particularly in number theory, the branch of discrete mathematics that concerns itself chiefly with the integers. Die ganze Zahl schuf der liebe Gott, said Kronecker. Alles übrige ist Menschenwerk.
One of the reasons why the Thermageddonite superstition has been so successful until recently is that just about the only formal demonstration that nine-tenths of the population recall – and even then hazily – is that in the Euclidean and hyperbolic planes the square (or semicircle) on the hypotenuse of a right triangle is equal to the sum of the squares (or semicircles) on the other two sides.
Now, the problem with the theorem of Pythagoras is that it is unquestionably true. For those who agree with the philosopher Schopenhauer that Euclid’s demonstration is “a triumph of perversity”, here is the admirably clear proof by dissection attributed to the fifth-century Hindu mathematican Aryabhatta.
However one looks at the theorem, the wretched thing is objectively true. There are hundreds of distinct demonstrations of it. It is true whether or not you or I or anyone else wants it to be true or believes it to be true or knows it to be true. In the language of theology, it is intrinsice honestum. It is right in itself.
I submit that it is the theorem of Pythagoras that has allowed the Thermageddonites to succeed when, scientifically speaking, they should simply have been laughed at.
For the truth of that venerable theorem has misled generations who have been given some acquaintance with the sciences but little or none with the philosophy of science into believing that every scientific finding is definitive, unalterable, unchallengeable and unquestionable.
Yes, liberating greenhouse gases by combustion will cause some warming – all other things being equal. Yes, we are liberating greenhouse gases by combustion. These things have been established beyond reasonable doubt. But what has not been established is the crucial quantitative question how much warming we may cause.
That simple fact has been relentlessly and artfully concealed from the population, who have been sedulously deluded into believing that “the science is certain” and that anyone who questions how much warming we may cause is by implication also challenging the well-established experimental results showing that greenhouse gases cause warming.
It is worth briefly considering the how much question – or, as the climate scientists call it, the question of climate sensitivity.
In response to my recent posting pointing out that on the RSS satellite record there has been no global warming for 17 years 10 months, a commenter, one Stacey, asked:
“Please could you … demonstrate the actual climate sensitivity in respect of the last 30 years due the increase in CO2 in the atmosphere? My guess is that it’s zero. :-)”
“Stacey” is adopting a sound, scientific approach, beginning with that vital first step: curiosity. Socrates used to say that the first step on the road to knowledge was an awareness of one’s own ignorance. And what is curiosity, the wellspring of the sciences, if not an awareness of one’s own ignorance coupled with a determination to do something about it?
“Stacey” offers the hypothesis, that climate sensitivity to CO2 over the past 30 years has been zero, and asks whether she is right.
So let us examine the hypothesis. We begin with the observation that in the climate there appear to be quasi-periodicities of about 60 years in global temperature – roughly 30 years’ tendency to warm followed by 30 years’ tendency to cool – and that these cycles are tied to, and may be caused by, the great ocean oscillations, of which the most influential seems to be the Pacific Decadal Oscillation.
Therefore, in order to cancel these naturally-occurring cycles, it is necessary either to take periods that are multiples of 60 years in length or to take periods that straddle a phase-transition from one 30-year phase of the PDO to another.
Usefully, the most recent phase-transition in the PDO was in about the year 2000, so that the past 30 years will have been about equally influenced first by a warming phase of the PDO and then by a cooling phase. That removes the most obvious potential natural distortion of our attempt to determine climate sensitivity from what has actually occurred.
Next, measurement. How much global warming was there in the past 30 years? For this, we shall take the mean of the global mean surface temperature anomalies on all five principal datasets – GISS, HadCRUT4, NCDC, RSS, and UAH.
We now make the assumption, for the sake of beginning somewhere, that all of the global warming over this 30-year period was attributable to us.
As the CO2 record on the chart shows, CO2 concentration rose by 54 ppmv over the 30-year period. We shall assume that all that increase in concentration was anthropogenic. If so, official theory suggests it caused 0.78 Watts per square meter of radiative forcing.
We shall also assume that over the period CO2 represented 70% of all anthropogenic forcings, so that the total anthropogenic forcing was 1.11 Watts per square meter. This assumption is derived from the IPCC’s Fifth Assessment Report.
We shall further assume that none of the warming was committed but unrealized warming from before 1984, or that, if there was some, it was approximately balanced by uncommitted warming generated over the 30-year period but not yet apparent in the temperature record.
Now we can divide the measured temperature change of 0.48 Cº by the total anthropogenic forcing of 1.11 Watts per square meter to obtain the transient-sensitivity parameter λt where t = 30 years, which is 0.43 Cº per Watt per square meter.
However, the instantaneous, Planck or zero-feedback sensitivity parameter λ0, which is the mean of the first derivatives across all latitudes of the fundamental equation of radiative transfer at the characteristic-emission altitude, where incoming and outgoing radiative fluxes balance, is just 0.31 Cº per Watt per square meter (IPCC, 2007, p. 631 fn.).
Next, some handy equations, that you will not find in most textbooks, will help us to determine the system gain Gt, the closed-loop feedback gain gt, and the feedback-sum ft directly from the Planck sensitivity parameter λ0 and the transient-sensitivity parameter λt:
The transient system gain Gt, which is the factor by which the direct warming from anthropogenic forcings is multiplied to allow for the action of feedbacks over the 30-year period, is simply 0.43 / 0.31, or 1.39, showing that short-acting feedbacks have increased the direct warming by almost two-fifths.
The loop gain gt, which is the product of the sum of the short-acting feedbacks and the Planck parameter, is 1 – 0.31/0.43, or 0.28.
Then the feedback sum ft, the sum of all short-acting feedbacks over the period, is 1/0.31 – 1/0.43, or 0.9 Watts per square meter per Celsius degree of warming over the period.
The IPCC’s current central estimate is that at equilibrium, when all short-acting and long-acting feedbacks have acted, the feedback sum is just 1.5 Watts per square meter per Cº (IPCC, 2013, table 9.43, red dot at top right). This is a substantial reduction from the 2.1 Watts per square meter per Cº (blue dot at top right) central estimate implicit in IPCC (2007).
From that current estimate of the equilibrium feedback-sum f∞, which is the sum of all feedbacks acting over the thousands of years till the climate has established a new equilibrium following perturbation by a forcing, the equilibrium system gain G∞ may be determined, using the Bode system-gain equation:
From the Bode equation, the equilibrium system gain G∞ is [1 – 0.31(1.5)]–1, or 1.87. In short, the IPCC’s current implicit central estimate is that feedbacks increase the direct forcing-driven warming by seven-eighths.
The central estimate of Charney sensitivity implicit in the IPCC’s current central estimate of the feedback sum is given by
Thus, the IPCC’s current central estimate of Charney sensitivity to a doubling of CO2 concentration ought to be (5.35 ln 2)(0.31)(1.87), or 2.1 Cº. So the 3.2 Cº that is the current central estimate of the CMIP5 model ensemble is too big by at least half.
The eventual warming as a result of the anthropogenic forcings of the past 30 years will be (1.11)(0.31)(1.87) = 0.64 Cº, of which 0.48 Cº, or three-quarters, has already occurred, leaving just 0.16 Cº warming committed but unrealized over the period. Yet the IPCC says there is about four times that amount of committed but unrealized warming in the pipeline.
Now, all that is set out above is mainstream climate science. It is possible that we caused some of the warming of the past 30 years. It is possible, though by no means certain, that we caused at least half of it.
Why, then, can we not be more precise in deriving a climate-sensitivity estimate from the temperature change and CO2 concentration change we have seen over the past 20 years?
The answer – though you will very seldom hear it from the Church of Thermageddon – is that there are far too many unknowns. The biggest outright lie in the IPCC’s 2013, 2007, and 2001 reports is the notion that we can determine with any confidence the fraction of global warming over recent decades that is attributable to us.
In 2001 the IPCC said it was 66% confident we had caused most of the warming since 1950; in 2001, 90% confident; in 2013, 95-99% confident. All of these confidence values are direct lies. For there is no dataset from whose values any such supposed confidence levels can be determined by any recognizable statistical process.
It is a measure of the contempt in which today’s scientific elite holds the rest of the population that the IPCC, as the elite’s soi-disant spokesman on climate change, could have made and persisted in and doubled down upon these particular lies. It knows it can get away with them, for scientists have abdicated, forfeiting their high priesthood to far-left politicians and profiteering environmental protection rackets.
We do not know enough about the climate to say in what direction, let alone by how much, the climate would be changing in the absence of any anthropogenic influence. We do not know the forcing from CO2 or any other greenhouse gas to a sufficient precision. The official value of the CO2 forcing was cut by a massive 15% in 2001.
We do not know the value of the Planck parameter to any great precision. We thought we did: then the actual mean surface temperature of the Moon was measured, and was found to be 40% adrift from the official value that had been determined on the basis of the lunar sensitivity parameter, and had been confidently published on official government websites.
We do not know what fraction of manmade warming is attributable to each of the greenhouse gases. We do not know the magnitude or even the sign of the forcing from our emissions of soot to the atmosphere.
We certainly do not know the values of the individual temperature feedbacks to anything like the narrow error bars falsely claimed by the IPCC. We do not even know the sign of the cloud feedback, and the IPCC has recently been forced to reduce the value of that feedback drastically.
Then there are the major non-radiative transports: evaporation and convection up, advection across, and precipitation and subsidence down.
We cannot predict the behavior of the oceans – indeed, we cannot even measure changes in their heat content with sufficient resolution to give a meaningful result.
We cannot predict el Niño and la Niña events. Look how many enviro-left news media predicted a record-busting event this year. They predicted it because they wanted it.
They needed it, desperately, to bring the Great Pause to an end and reduce the humiliation that the less dishonest among them are beginning to feel now that the laymen like me at whom they have viciously snapped and sneered for so long are – so far, at any rate – closer to the mark than they and their expensive but useless models.
For it would take only a very small reduction in each of the assumed values on the basis of which the IPCC makes its predictions to reach a climate sensitivity far less than the models’ currently-claimed central estimate of 3.2 Cº per CO2 doubling. And there are powerful theoretical reasons why some of those values must have been greatly overstated, though there is no space to consider them here.
My own best estimate, for what little it is worth, is that a doubling of CO2 concentration would warm the world by about 1 Cº, if that. The IPCC is heading – albeit far too slowly – towards the same answer. It has cut the CO2 forcing; it has accepted that the next-biggest anthropogenic forcing, from methane, has been vastly overestimated; it has slashed the feedback-sum and consequently the equilibrium system gain; it has all but halved its near-term predictions of global warming.
However, the honest answer to Stacey’s question about what climate sensitivity is indicated by the temperature record of the past 30 years is, “We do not know”.
But you will never hear that honesty on the lips of the Thermageddonites, as they furtively and profitably cement in place the last of the thousand interlinked supranational bureaucracies that are the silent sinews of what – if they get their way in Paris in December next year – will be an all-powerful world government founded upon the greatest lie ever told, the lie of certainty in a cloud of unknowing, elected by none, loved by few, feared by all, and answerable only to itself.
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Mr Painter, yet another “slayer”, says I am not ready to question the application of the greenhouse-gas theory to the atmosphere. But the head posting did exactly that. It did not, of course, question the theory, for that is well established. It questioned instead the magnitude of the warming that might be caused by the enhanced greenhouse effect. I have studied the theory, have familiarized myself with the fundamental equation of radiative transfer, established that its first derivative under present conditions, which determines the zero-feedbacks warming (all other things being equal) is broadly correct, and also verified the emission temperature not only for Earth but for several other planetary bodies.
I can find no significant error in the theory, and the ramblings of the “slayers” have been relentlessly unimpressive and unscientific. The only scientist I came across who was a “slayer” believed that he had demonstrated the absence of back-radiation using a piece of equipment that had not been designed for that purpose and was not suitable for it. When I pointed this out, and referred him to the manufacturers for further information (and they confirmed what I had told him), he ceased to be a “slayer” because he was left with no evidence whatsoever that they were right. That was an honest scientist.
Where I find a significant error is in the assumption that temperature feedbacks in the climate are strongly net-positive. There is evidence for that proposition, but it is not very good evidence. The evidence against a strongly net-positive feedback sum, both empirically and in theory, is strong (see, for instance, Lindzen & Choi, 2011; Spencer & Braswell, 2011; Choi et al., 2014). It is necessary only to remove the notion of a strong net-positive feedback sum to remove all menace from the enhanced greenhouse effect. Whether the warming at a doubling of CO2 is zero (if there is no greenhouse effect), or 1 C (if there is a greenhouse effect but no net-positive feedback sum), then there is no climate problem.
Unless I am shown reviewed evidence that there is no such thing as a greenhouse effect, I shall continue to rely upon its existence in my own calculations. And I shall continue to support Anthony in his desire to keep the wretched “slayers” off the pages here. They are a vexatious and unwelcome distraction.
“Konrad” waves his arms, but fails to provide a quantitative value for his proposed amendment to the 255 K emission temperature for Earth that theory would lead us to expect. What proposed alternative value for mean terrestrial emissivity in the near infrared would he propose, and how has he determined it? And in which reviewed publication has his work appeared? We are not told. Do the measurement, do the math, draft the hypothesis in properly quantitative terms (math being the language of physics, like it or not), publish in a reviewed journal, and then come back and tell us all the new value for the Earth’s emission temperature.
Otherwise, one should be as skeptical of “Konrad’s” claim as of all other such claims. If a new hypothesis is incapable of withstanding scientific scrutiny, then why should I or anyone give it credence? Of course it is difficult to get any questioning of the official story-line into journals such as Nature, for it is not in Nature’s nature to do science any more, just as Science no longer does science. But there are other journals. If “Konrad” is as smart as he says he is, he will no doubt refer me to the publication in which he has properly set out his theory, and has identified a new and different value for the Earth’s emission temperature. If there is no such paper, then his remarks here amount to no more than bluff and bombast. There is plenty of that in the climate science debate, but I am not impressed by it, and nor should anyone else be.
E.M.Smith says:
August 3, 2014 at 1:22 pm
M’Lord,
I’d assert that the central climate fallacy is that an average of temperatures has any meaning at all, and the secondary fallacy is that temperatures say much of use about HEAT.
I suppose that while “the central climate fallacy is that the unknowns are known” may be correct, it is important to note that there are other climate fallacies that may also be central to the issue.
Lord Monckton
You say:
including the ocean waves, which are caused not by global warming but by the wind and the tides.
But what causes the wind that causes the waves?
Energy can’t simultaneously exist as both thermal energy and motion, either waves due to thermally induced wind or currents due to thermal differences in the ocean, these energies are removed from the thermal/radiant energy budget, so presumably increases in retained energy, increases all these little losses, since the losses of energy through transformations are unchacterised, ignored and (in the case of ocean motion – )potentially very large they are a completely unquantified and possibly non trivial loss with a magnitude quite probably much greater that Trenbeth’s energy imbalance – no imbalance, no global warming.
I quite agree that the main paths are as you say, but as an Engineer I always acknowledge the loss term. For example one can’t characterise a pendulum without friction even though the friction is very small, the clock eventually winds down – there are ALWAYS losses, and to completely characterise a system you must know the magnitude of the losses. Don’t make the same mistake as Trenbeth, acknowledge the “completely unknown” energy transformation losses.
Yes, much tidal energy is gravitational, but some unknown portion is due to temperature, I stress the word – unknown. Let’s say it’s only 1 in 1000, well that still represents 40W / square meter. Conversely of the gravitationally and momentum driven winds and waves, how much does friction add to the atmospheric temperature – another unknown? These are not small numbers.
Your post is about the unknowns, the uncertainties – the ignored system losses (and gains through friction) are I think, the most blatant unknowns of them all.
JohnWho says:
August 4, 2014 at 6:40 am
“I’d assert that the central climate fallacy is that an average of temperatures has any meaning at all”
If I have three one liter containers of water, with one at 10 degrees C, one at 20 degrees C and the third at 30 degrees C, what do you think the measured temperature will be if I take all three an put them into a 3 liter container and mix them?
..
I’m a betting man, and will bet on 20 degrees C.
What is your bet?
““Dan” appears confused.”
Not so, but thanks for taking the time to provide a response.
“One cannot simply subtract the 17 years and 10 months of no warming at the end of the 30-year period and thus obtain a trend of 3.7 C.”
But to not do so would highlight that there must have been warming during the 17 years and 10 month period, as indeed your graph shows.
Lord Monckton; your last paragraph says more to me than the rest of the article. My hope is that science blogs may soon turn their attention more to the political elephant in the room.The real cause behind all the arguments about the effects.
Bobl (August 4, 2014 at 6:55 am)
There are no losses. Not in the long term.
Energy cannot be created or destroyed. This is the 1st Law of Thermodynamics. Energy may temporarily be in different forms, winds tides etc. but that is a distraction. It will likely end up as heat, just like the friction in your pendulum clock which eventually appears as heat; the energy is not ‘lost’.
It is not necessary to consider all these intermediate forms of energy (which would be prohibitive anyway) to understand the climate system in macroscopic terms. It is sufficient to know only the incoming and outgoing energy at the surface to explain the effects of greenhouse gases.
The first law of thermodynamics makes it easy for us : energy cannot be created or destroyed.
Lord Monckton
Let me also address the following comment
“Other influences no doubt exist, but they are ill constrained. There is far too much guesswork in the climate game, and there are far too few facts.”
Yes, I agree, but it’s perfectly acceptable to lump these terms into a single , non radiant loss term of unknown magnitude, the gains from friction due to gravitationally, and momentum driven motion can be similarly dealt with as a lumped (and completely unknown) non radiant heat gain term.
My point being that without these terms the model is incomplete, and we can’t possibly know what bias to warming or cooling is ultimately at play, it’s just as you say, but worse. Energy leaks into and out from the climate, and there is no reason at all to expect that radiant energy in = radiant energy out. Only that Total energy in = Total energy out, big terms are missing.
richard verney says:
August 3, 2014 at 11:13 pm
“Increasing CO2 has one of three possibilities. It may warm the planet, it may have such an insignificant effect that it is so small that we cannot measure what it does. It may cool the planet. We have yet to work out which of these eventualities occurs in real world conditions.”
—————-
Well now, sorry bout that, cause all 3 have been “worked out” and all 3 “do occur” in real world conditions.
============
“I agree with you, that a proper evaluation of Venus also suggests that there is a problem with CO2 GH warming because the surface of Venus does not appear to be warmed by reflected Solar from the ……………”
—————-
It is utterly silly for anyone, man or beast, to even think about comparing the planet Venus to the planet Earth relative to surface temperatures and/or atmospheric temperature & composition.
Mimicry is OK until one is told differently, but to do so after being told would be as idiotic as would be the comparing of “mountain oysters” to “jet fuel”.
And following are 5 facts about the planet Venus that substantiates my above sarcasm, … with #2 & #3 probably being the most important ones.
1. The atmosphere of Venus is 96% carbon dioxide (CO2).
2. The distance of Venus from the Sun is 68 million miles (1/3 rd closer than Earth)
3. It takes 242 Earth days for Venus to rotate on its axis
4. The clouds surrounding Venus are comprised mostly of sulfuric acid.
5. Venus has an atmospheric pressure (1,352 psi) that is 92 times that of planet Earth
Now, given Earth’s current atmospheric status, ….. just how frigging “HOT” do you suppose it would get in say Miami, FL, iffen the residents there had to withstand …. 100+ continuous 24 hour periods (2,400 hours) of bright Sunshine? Or, continuous bright Sunshine from mid-May to the end of August?
The temperature of Venus is determined by its close proximity to the Sun and the mass density (1,352 psi) of its atmosphere …. and not to the composition (CO2) of its atmosphere.
@ur momisugly H Grouse says:
August 4, 2014 at 6:58 am
The assertion quoted was from
E.M.Smith at August 3, 2014 at 1:22 pm
However, I’ll assume you have made proper temperature measurements, so your result should be correct.
At this time, none of us can say that about the temperature measurements being made of the planet’s lower atmospheric temperature or upper atmospheric temperature. The satellite measurements do not encompass the entire upper atmosphere – I believe they don’t get the polar areas.
Using our best monitoring capability, even though we do not get a proper measurement of the entire area, arguably if properly “adjusted”, perhaps we could at least get trends. Of course, the Alarmist/Warmist would prefer to claim that this is one of our “knowns”.
H Grouse says:
August 4, 2014 at 6:58 am
how much water do you have?
1 + 1 + 1 = 3 lt correct
How many degrees do you have?
10 + 20 + 30 = 60 IN correct
How much heat energy (joules per second) do you inject into each container to reach each temperature? Well, it depends upon the starting temperature of each container.
Sorry post needs a few corrections, Here it is again,:
Much of this discussion re CS, radiative balance, ocean processes etc is irrelevant and indeed muddies the waters if your objective is to make forecasts of future climate. To do the latter all that is necessary is to simply look at the quasi periodic – quasi repetitive patterns in the temperature data itself and then project these forward for periods suitable to the wavelength of the pattern concerned. Thus we have a reasonable idea as to where we are relative to the Milankovitch cycles, and to the 970 and 60 year periodicities in the temperature data. The latter two can be reasonably assigned to solar activity variability but it is not necessary to understand the processes involved in order to make likely successful predictions.
It seems to me that if your interest is investigating the role of anthropogenic CO2, which is the stated mission of the IPCC and its modelers – you really need to understand that this is not possible unless you have a good idea of the timing and amplitude of the natural variations prior to dissecting out the human contribution. This, so far, the modelers have completely failed to do and so built their models on the highly implausible assumption that anthropogenic CO2 is the main climate driver. Obviously what they put into the models at one end came out at the other.
The way ahead is to continue gathering,for the last 3-5000 years in particular, as much quality temperature proxy data as possible and so refine on a regional basis our understanding of the exact timing and amplitude of the natural quasi-periodicities.
For a complete discussion of this see
http://climatesense-norpag.blogspot.com/2014/07/climate-forecasting-methods-and-cooling.html
Monckton of Brenchley:
Sir, a slayer I am not, not by your earlier definition as one who denies the greenhouse effect. I consider the greenhouse effect as something as obvious to anyone sensible. No need to apologize for mis-labeling me as one of those whom you regard as “a vexatious and unwelcome distraction”.
My comment above was fragmented at 2:40am & 3:04 am. Perhaps it was that which led you to misapprehend its meaning while you were in the midst of slaying the slayers. If you read it again, more carefully, I think that you will take away a different meaning and remove me from the bill of mortality, or so I should hope. I am not comfortable with such a pejorative (and untrue) tag on me.
I think one of the key take-aways here is the hightlighted phrase all other things being equal. The climate system isn’t a test tube and it reacts to the anthropogenic emissions. The warmists believe the natural reaction is to amplify the warming — an assumption not well supported by real-world observations. The actual response seems to be the opposite.
H Grouse says:
August 4, 2014 at 6:58 am
“I’m a betting man, and will bet on 20 degrees C.”
Now, assume you are mixing different fluids with different heat capacities. Do all regions of the Earth have the same effective heat capacity? Does the Amazon have the same heat capacity as the Sahara?
H Grouse says:
August 4, 2014 at 5:59 am
“Spencer at UAH uses a different set of satellites than RSS”
—————–
YUP, …… but just what EXACTLY are those satellites measuring? To wit:
—————————–
“Satellite temperature measurements
The temperature of the atmosphere at various altitudes as well as sea and land surface temperatures can be inferred from satellite measurements. Weather satellites do not measure temperature directly but measure radiances in various wavelength bands.
Satellite datasets show that over the past four decades the troposphere has warmed and the stratosphere has cooled. Both of these trends are consistent with the influence of increasing atmospheric concentrations of greenhouse gases.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_temperature_measurements
Graph: Surface and Satellite Temperatures
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satellite_temperature_measurements#mediaviewer/File:Satellite_Temperatures.png
—————————-
TA DAH, ….. can be inferred, …..are consistent with, ….. WHOOOPEEE.
And Grouse, the above said greenhouse gases that have the same absorption/emission wavelengths ….. are what?
YUP, you guessed correctly, ……. H2O vapor and CO2. See reference graph below:
Graph: Radiation Transmitted by the Atmosphere
And Grouse, the thermal “heat” energy in question can be transferred to the CO2 and H2O vapor via ….. conduction …… from any other gas molecule and/or particulate that is in the atmosphere.
Teerry Oldburg: Monckton of Brenchley:
Are you asserting that when the change in the equilibrium surface temperature is divided by the change in the logarithm of the CO2 concentration the result is a constant? If so, please support this hypothesis..
What he has written is that, if it is a constant (as assumed by IPCC among others), then it is a small constant (smaller than alramists have been warning us of.)
oops. that was for “Terry Oldberg.”
Monckton of Brenchley: Since absence of correlation necessarily implies absence of causation, we know that the stochasticity of the temperature changes is not caused by the monotonically-changing CO2 concentration.
oops. You have forgotten that with (deterministic) high dimensional non-linear dissipative systems (such as the Earth climate system) the steady input can produce apparent step-changes in output at irregular intervals. A brief reference is the text book Modern Thermodynamics by Kondepudi and Prigogine, the later chapters.
richard verney says, August 3, 2014 at 11:13 pm:
“IF DWLWIR has sensible energy in the real world environs of planet Earth it would likely result in copious quantities of evaporation of the oceans (which would tend to boil off from the top down), which copious quantities of evaporation are not detected. Solar does not present this problem since the energy from Solar is not absorbed within just a few microns but for the main part over a depth of at least 1 metre thereby greatly diluting the energy so that the oceans can be kept warm without boil off.”
Yup. Because DWLWIR is not ‘heat’. The SW from the Sun is heat and so is a separate, thermodynamically working flow of energy. DWLWIR isn’t. The solar heat can directly heat things, that is, make them warmer. It can prompt evaporation. The DWLWIR can’t. Because it is only the one part of a continuous, integrated radiative exchange between surface and atmosphere, netting out to an UPWARD heat flux, the only real, detectable transfer of energy between the two systems.
Still the climate establishment really seems to crave for the DWLWIR to be heat (without coming out and stating it in plain words, of course), just like the solar flux. They after all ADD them together as separate energy inputs to the surface, as if they were equals (meaning, heat) in those Earth energy budget diagrams, and in all the talk about the DWLWIR warming the top sea skin layer a little bit to make the gradient through the surface smaller and hence facilitate an increase in OHC.
“If DWLWIR has sensible energy capable of performing sensible work in the real world environs of planet Earth, it is astounding that there are no large scale projects seeking to harness that energy. Which energineer would opt for Solar as a power source, when according to K&T, DWLWIR has about 100% more power and is a constant available 24/7 come rain or shine? The appeal of DWLWIR as a constant power source would favour this, and yet there appears to be no significant research into harnessing it, thereby suggesting that it is viewed as nothing more than a signal incapable of performing sensible work in the real world environs in which it finds itself here at the surface (or near surface) of planet Earth.”
Exactly right. A good way of showing why the solar flux and the calculated ‘back radiation’ can not be considered equivalent fluxes of energy. And why it’s clear they know it. Because they’re not equivalent fluxes of energy. People should stop pretending they are! You can harness the energy of the one. You can’t possibly harness (or even detect) the energy of the other.
Samuel C Cogar says:
August 4, 2014 at 9:20 am
….
:”satellites do not measure temperature directly”
…
Grab a mercury thermometer.
The device does not measure temperature.
There is some liquid mercury in the bulb, with a stem and markings. The Mercury inside the device expands and contracts, yet it does not measure temperature directly With the correct positioning of the markings on the stem via calibration, temperature can be inferred from thermometer readings.
Not really all that different than the instruments aboard a satellite????
..
Monckton of Brenchley: From the policy perspective, a zero warming is the same as 1 C-per-doubling warming: both are non-problems, and neither requires any mitigative action. For this and other reasons, I am disinclined to argue about whether equilibrium sensitivity is 0, 1 or 2 degrees. All these are much of a muchness. Above 2 degrees, the climatic effects might become noticeable, but even then they would be unlikely to do much more harm than good.
Well said.
From WUWT’s new CO2 page, particularly the Mauna Loa graph, I estimated the rate of change of atmospheric concentration to be 0.4% per year. At that rate, the next doubling of CO2 concentration will take 174 years (obviously [?] I do not actually claim 3 sig figs of accuracy from a 1 sig fig at most input), which makes the 0, 1, or 2 equilibrium change even less of a problem, and not an urgent problem at all. Other rates of CO2 increase have been calculated: do you have a favorite.
I have read all of your responses to comments, as well as your head post. I thank you again for your writing, your persistence, and what looks to me like nearly unfailing good judgment. Please keep up the good work.
Matthew R Marler says, August 4, 2014 at 10:26 am:
“oops. You have forgotten that with (deterministic) high dimensional non-linear dissipative systems (such as the Earth climate system) the steady input can produce apparent step-changes in output at irregular intervals. A brief reference is the text book Modern Thermodynamics by Kondepudi and Prigogine, the later chapters.”
The point here is that those sudden upward shifts that I pointed to (the very same shifts that Bob Tisdale has now been pointing out and explained for the last five years, but no one seems to listen or care), are not ‘stochastic’ at all. They are very distinct, time-specific and process-related. The process in question? ENSO.
The ocean cycle caused the modern global warming between the 70s and the 00s. Nothing else. The ENTIRE rise in global temps since 1970 is contained within three abrupt and significant steps each established within the course of a year or less: in 1979, in 1988 and 1998. All the steps lift global temperatures 0.15-0.2 degrees up and away from the otherwise tight correlation to NINO3.4. But it ONLY happens on those three occasions. Not at any other time.
And the fully natural processes behind the steps are all easy to track in the data.
http://okulaer.wordpress.com/2014/06/17/how-the-world-really-warmed-between-the-70s-and-the-00s-part-i/
http://okulaer.wordpress.com/2014/06/23/how-the-world-really-warmed-part-ii-step-1/
http://okulaer.wordpress.com/2014/07/11/how-the-world-really-warmed-part-iii-steps-2-3/
Richard Verney: IF DWLWIR has sensible energy in the real world environs of planet Earth it would likely result in copious quantities of evaporation of the oceans (which would tend to boil off from the top down), which copious quantities of evaporation are not detected. Solar does not present this problem since the energy from Solar is not absorbed within just a few microns but for the main part over a depth of at least 1 metre thereby greatly diluting the energy so that the oceans can be kept warm without boil off.
If DWLWIR has sensible energy capable of performing sensible work in the real world environs of planet Earth, it is astounding that there are no large scale projects seeking to harness that energy. Which energineer would opt for Solar as a power source, when according to K&T, DWLWIR has about 100% more power and is a constant available 24/7 come rain or shine? The appeal of DWLWIR as a constant power source would favour this, and yet there appears to be no significant research into harnessing it, thereby suggesting that it is viewed as nothing more than a signal incapable of performing sensible work in the real world environs in which it finds itself here at the surface (or near surface) of planet Earth .
I think it is a serious research question: where the DWLWIR impinges on the non-dry surfaces of the Earth, how much evaporation does it cause? There isn’t enough to “boil off” the oceans, but there is no reason to believe, or to assert, that there is no evaporation caused by the DWLWIR. Related to that is a question that I have often asked: If atmospheric CO2 concentration increases, how much will ocean evaporation increase? My conjecture is that more energy will go into evaporation than into heating, but it is nearly pure conjecture.
This again: thereby suggesting that it is viewed as nothing more than a signal incapable of performing sensible work in the real world environs in which it finds itself here at the surface (or near surface) of planet Earth .
That doesn’t make sense: if DWLWIR isn’t energy carrying, then it can’t result from electrons changing from higher energy orbits declining into lower energy orbits. You are better off saying that an important energy transfer process has been too little studied.