On ‘denying’ Hockey Sticks, USHCN data, and all that – part 2

In part one of this essay which you can see here, I got quite a lot of feedback on both sides of the climate debate. Some people thought that I was spot on with criticisms while others thought I had sold my soul to the devil of climate change. It is an interesting life when I am accused of being in cahoots with both “big oil” and “big climate” at the same time. That aside, in this part of the essay I am going to focus on areas of agreement and disagreement and propose a solution.

In part one of the essay we focus on the methodology that was used that created a hockey stick style graph illustrating missing data. Due to the missing data causing a faulty spike at the end, Steve McIntyre commented, suggesting that it was more like the Marcott hockey stick than it was like Mann’s:

Steve McIntyre says:

Anthony, it looks to me like Goddard’s artifact is almost exactly equivalent in methodology to Marcott’s artifact spike – this is a much more exact comparison than Mann. Marcott’s artifact also arose from data drop-out.

However, rather than conceding the criticism, Marcott et al have failed to issue a corrigendum and their result has been widely cited.

In retrospect, I believe McIntyre is right in making that comparison. Data dropout is the central issue here and when it occurs it can create all sorts of statistical abnormalities.

Despite some spirited claims in comments in part one about how I’m “ignoring the central issue”, I don’t dispute that data is missing from many stations, I never have.

It is something that has been known about for years and is actually expected in the messy data gathering process of volunteer observers, electronic systems that don’t always report, and equipment and or sensor failures. In fact there is likely no weather network in existence that has perfect data without some being missing. Even the new U.S. Climate Reference Network, designed to be state-of-the-art and as perfect as possible has a small amount of missing data due to failures of uplinks or other electronic issues, seen in red:

CRN_missing_data

Source: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/crn/newdaychecklist?yyyymmdd=20140101&tref=LST&format=web&sort_by=slv

What is in dispute is the methodology, and the methodology, as McIntyre observed, created a false “hockey stick” shape much like we saw in the Marcott affair:

marcott-A-1000[1]

After McIntyre corrected the methodology used by Marcott, dealing with faulty and missing data, the result looked like this:

 

alkenone-comparison

McIntyre points out this in comments in part 1:

In Marcott’s case, because he took anomalies at 6000BP and there were only a few modern series, his results were an artifact – a phenomenon that is all too common in Team climate science.

So, clearly, the correction McIntyre applied to Marcott’s data made the result better, i.e. more representative of reality.

That’s the same sort of issue that we saw in Goddard’s plot; data was thinning near the endpoint of the present.

Goddard_screenhunter_236-jun-01-15-54

[ Zeke has more on that here: http://rankexploits.com/musings/2014/how-not-to-calculate-temperatures-part-3/ ]

While I would like nothing better than to be able to use raw surface temperature data in its unadulterated “pure” form to derive a national temperature and to chart the climate history of the United States, (and the world) the fact is that because the national USHCN/co-op network and GHCN is in such bad shape and has become largely heterogeneous that is no longer possible with the raw data set as a whole.

These surface networks have had so many changes over time that the number of stations that have been moved, had their time of observation changed, had equipment changes, maintenance issues,or have been encroached upon by micro site biases and/or UHI using the raw data for all stations on a national scale or even a global scale gives you a result that is no longer representative of the actual measurements, there is simply too much polluted data.

A good example of polluted data can be found in Las Vegas Nevada USHCN station:

LasVegas_average_temps

Here, growth of the city and the population has resulted in a clear and undeniable UHI signal at night gaining 10°F since measurements began. It is studied and acknowledged by the “sustainability” department of the city of Las Vegas, as seen in this document. Dr. Roy Spencer in his blog post called it “the poster child for UHI” and wonders why NOAA’s adjustments haven’t removed this problem. It is a valid and compelling question. But at the same time, if we were to use the raw data from Las Vegas we would know it would have been polluted by the UHI signal, so is it representative in a national or global climate presentation?

LasVegas_lows

The same trend is not visible in the daytime Tmax temperature, in fact it appears there has been a slight downward trend since the late 1930′s and early 1940′s:

LasVegas_highs

Source for data: NOAA/NWS Las Vegas, from

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/vef/climate/LasVegasClimateBook/index.php

The question then becomes: Would it be okay to use this raw temperature data from Las Vegas without any adjustments to correct for the obvious pollution by UHI?

From my perspective the thermometer at Las Vegas has done its job faithfully. It has recorded what actually occurred as the city has grown. It has no inherent bias, the change in surroundings have biased it. The issue however is when you start using stations like this to search for the posited climate signal from global warming. Since the nighttime temperature increase at Las Vegas is almost an order of magnitude larger than the signal posited to exist from carbon dioxide forcing, that AGW signal would clearly be swamped by the UHI signal. How would you find it? If I were searching for a climate signal and was doing it by examining stations rather than throwing out blind automated adjustments I would most certainly remove Las Vegas from the mix as its raw data is unreliable because it has been badly and likely irreparably polluted by UHI.

Now before you get upset and claim that I don’t want to use raw data or as some call it “untampered” or unadjusted data, let me say nothing could be further from the truth. The raw data represents the actual measurements; anything else that has been adjusted is not fully representative of the measurement reality no matter how well-intentioned, accurate, or detailed those adjustments are.

But, at the same time, how do you separate all the other biases that have not been dealt with (like Las Vegas) so you don’t end up creating national temperature averages with imperfect raw data?

That my friends, is the $64,000 question.

To answer that question, we have a demonstration. Over at the blackboard blog, Zeke has plotted something that I believe demonstrates the problem.

Zeke writes:

There is a very simple way to show that Goddard’s approach can produce bogus outcomes. Lets apply it to the entire world’s land area, instead of just the U.S. using GHCN monthly:

Averaged Absolutes

Egads! It appears that the world’s land has warmed 2C over the past century! Its worse than we thought!

Or we could use spatial weighting and anomalies:

 

Gridded Anomalies

Now, I wonder which of these is correct? Goddard keeps insisting that its the first, and evil anomalies just serve to manipulate the data to show warming. But so it goes.

Zeke wonders which is “correct”. Is it Goddard’s method of plotting all the “pure” raw data, or is it Zeke’s method of using gridded anomalies?

My answer is: neither of them are absolutely correct.

Why, you ask?

It is because both contain stations like Las Vegas that have been compromised by changes in their environment, that station itself, the sensors, the maintenance, time of observation changes, data loss, etc. In both cases we are plotting data which is a huge mishmash of station biases that have not been dealt with.

NOAA tries to deal with these issues, but their effort falls short. Part of the reason it falls short is that they are trying to keep every bit of data and adjust it in an attempt to make it useful, and to me that is misguided, as some data is just beyond salvage.

In most cases, the cure from NOAA is worse than the disease, which is why we see things like the past being cooled.

Here is another plot from Zeke just for the USHCN, which shows Goddard’s method “Averaged Absolutes” and the NOAA method of “Gridded Anomalies”:

Goddard and NCDC methods 1895-2013

[note: the Excel code I posted was incorrect for this graph, and was for another graph Zeke produced, so it was removed, apologies – Anthony]

Many people claim that the “Gridded Anomalies” method cools the past, and increases the trend, and in this case they’d be right. There is no denying that.

At the same time, there is no denying that the entire CONUS USHCN raw data set contains all sorts of imperfections, biases, UHI, data dropouts and a whole host of problems that remain uncorrected. It is a Catch-22; on one hand the raw data has issues, on the other, at the bare minimum some sort of infilling and gridding is needed to produce a representative signal for the CONUS, but in producing that, new biases and uncertainty is introduced.

There is no magic bullet that always hits the bullseye.

I’ve known and studied this for years, it isn’t a new revelation. The key point here is that both Goddard and Zeke (and by extension BEST and NOAA) are trying to use the ENTIRE USHCN dataset, warts and all, to derive a national average temperature. Neither method produces a totally accurate representation of national temperature average. Keep that thought.

While both methods have flaws, the issue that Goddard raised has one good point, and an important one; the rate of data dropout in USHCN is increasing.

When data gets lost, they infill with other nearby data, and that’s an acceptable procedure, up to a point. The question is, have we reached a point of no confidence in the data because too much has been lost?

John Goetz asked the same question as Goddard in 2008 at Climate Audit:

How much Estimation is too much Estimation?

It is still an open question, and without a good answer yet.

But at the same time we are seeing more and more data loss, Goddard is claiming “fabrication” of lost temperature data in the final product and at the same advocating using the raw surface temperature data for a national average. From my perspective, you can’t argue for both. If the raw data is becoming less reliable due to data loss, how can we use it by itself to reliably produce a national temperature average?

Clearly with the mess the USHCN and GHCN are in, raw data won’t accurately produce a representative result of the true climate change signal of the nation because the raw data is so horribly polluted with so many other biases. There are easily hundreds of stations in the USHCN that have been compromised like Las Vegas has been, making the raw data, as a whole, mostly useless.

So in summary:

Goddard is right to point out that there is increasing data loss in USHCN and it is being increasingly infilled with data from surrounding stations. While this is not a new finding, it is important to keep tabs on. He’s brought it to the forefront again, and for that I thank him.

Goddard is wrong to say we can use all the raw data to reliably produce a national average temperature because the same data is increasingly lossy and is also full of other biases that are not dealt with. [ added: His method allows for biases to enter that are mostly about station composition, and less about infilling see this post from Zeke]

As a side note, claiming “fabrication” in a nefarious way doesn’t help, and generally turns people off to open debate on the issue because the process of infilling missing data wasn’t designed at the beginning to be have any nefarious motive; it was designed to make the monthly data usable when small data dropouts are seen, like we discussed in part 1 and showed the B-91 form with missing data from volunteer data. By claiming “fabrication”, all it does is put up walls, and frankly if we are going to enact any change to how things get done in climate data, new walls won’t help us.

Biases are common in the U.S. surface temperature network

This is why NOAA/NCDC spends so much time applying infills and adjustments; the surface temperature record is a heterogeneous mess. But in my view, this process of trying to save messed up data is misguided, counter-productive, and causes heated arguments (like the one we are experiencing now) over the validity of such infills and adjustments, especially when many of them seem to operate counter-intuitively.

As seen in the map below, there are thousands of temperature stations in the US co-op and USHCN network in the USA, by our surface stations survey, at least 80% of the USHCN is compromised by micro-site issues in some way, and by extension, that large sample size of the USHCN subset of the co-op network we did should translate to the larger network.

USHCN_COOP_Map

When data drops out of USHCN stations, data from nearby neighbor stations is infilled to make up the missing data, but when 80% or more of your network is compromised by micro-site issues, chances are all you are doing is infilling missing data with compromised data. I explained this problem years ago using a water bowl analogy, showing how the true temperature signal gets “muddy” when data from surrounding stations is used to infill missing data:

bowls-USmap

The real problem is the increasing amount of data dropout in USHCN (and in Co-op and GHCN) may be reaching a point where it is adding a majority of biased signal from nearby problematic stations. Imagine a well sited long period station near Las Vegas out in a rural area that has its missing data infilled using Las Vegas data, you know it will be warmer when that happens.

So, what is the solution?

How do we get an accurate surface temperature for the United States (and the world) when the raw data is full of uncorrected biases and the adjusted data does little more than smear those station biases around when infilling occurs? Some of our friends say a barrage of  statistical fixes are all that is needed, but there is also another, simpler, way.

Dr. Eric Steig, at “Real Climate”, in a response to a comment about Zeke Hausfather’s 2013 paper on UHI shows us a way.

Real Climate comment from Eric Steig (response at bottom)

We did something similar (but even simpler) when it was being insinuated that the temperature trends were suspect, back when all those UEA emails were stolen. One only needs about 30 records, globally spaced, to get the global temperature history. This is because there is a spatial scale (roughly a Rossby radius) over which temperatures are going to be highly correlated for fundamental reasons of atmospheric dynamics.

For those who don’t know what the Rossby radius is, see this definition.

Steig claims 30 station records are all that are needed globally. In a comment some years ago (now probably lost in the vastness of the Internet) we heard Dr. Gavin Schmidt said something similar, saying that about “50 stations” would be all that is needed.

[UPDATE: Commenter Johan finds what may be the quote:

I did find this Gavin Schmidt quote:

“Global weather services gather far more data than we need. To get the structure of the monthly or yearly anomalies over the United States, for example, you’d just need a handful of stations, but there are actually some 1,100 of them. You could throw out 50 percent of the station data or more, and you’d get basically the same answers”

http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/Features/Interviews/schmidt_20100122.php ]

So if that is the case, and one of the most prominent climate researchers on the planet (and his associate) says we need only somewhere between 30-50 stations globally…why is NOAA spending all this time trying to salvage bad data from hundreds if not thousands of stations in the USHCN, and also in the GHCN?

It is a question nobody at NOAA has ever really been able to answer for me. While it is certainly important to keep these records from all these stations for local climate purposes, but why try to keep them in the national and global dataset when Real Climate Scientists say that just a few dozen good stations will do just fine?

There is precedence for this, the U.S. Climate Reference Network, which has just a fraction of the stations in USHCN and the co-op network:

crn_map

NOAA/NCDC is able to derive a national temperature average from these few stations just fine, and without the need for any adjustments whatsoever. In fact they are already publishing it:

USCRN_avg_temp_Jan2004-April2014

If it were me, I’d throw out most of the the USHCN and co-op stations with problematic records rather than try to salvage them with statistical fixes, and instead, try to locate the best stations with long records, no moves, and minimal site biases and use those as the basis for tracking the climate signal. By doing so not only do we eliminate a whole bunch of make work with questionable/uncertain results, and we end all the complaints data falsification and quibbling over whose method really does find the “holy grail of the climate signal” in the US surface temperature record.

Now you know what Evan Jones and I have been painstakingly doing for the last two years since our preliminary siting paper was published here at WUWT and we took heavy criticism for it. We’ve embraced those criticisms and made the paper even better. We learned back then that adjustments account for about half of the surface temperature trend:

We are in the process of bringing our newest findings to publication. Some people might complain we have taken too long. I say we have one chance to get it right, so we’ve been taking extra care to effectively deal with all criticisms from then, and criticisms we have from within our own team. Of course if I had funding like some people get, we could hire people to help move it along faster instead of relying on free time where we can get it.

The way forward:

It is within our grasp to locate and collate stations in the USA and in the world that have as long of an uninterrupted record and freedom from bias as possible and to make that a new climate data subset. I’d propose calling it the the Un-Biased Global Historical Climate Network or UBGHCN. That may or may not be a good name, but you get the idea.

We’ve found at least this many good stations in the USA that meet the criteria of being reliable and without any need for major adjustments of any kind, including the time-of-observation change (TOB), but some do require the cooling bias correction for MMTS conversion, but that is well known and a static value that doesn’t change with time. Chances are, a similar set of 50 stations could be located in the world. The challenge is metadata, some of which is non-existent publicly, but with crowd sourcing such a project might be do-able, and then we could fulfill Gavin Schmidt and Eric Steig’s vision of a much simpler set of climate stations.

Wouldn’t it be great to have a simpler and known reliable set of stations rather than this mishmash which goes through the statistical blender every month? NOAA could take the lead on this, chances are they won’t. I believe it is possible to do independent of them, and it is a place where climate skeptics can make a powerful contribution which would be far more productive than the arguments over adjustments and data dropout.

 

5 1 vote
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

274 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
June 26, 2014 5:30 pm

Get back to me when you have at least thirty years of good data from 51,000 ideally sited & well maintained, identical reporting stations, one for every 10,000 square kilometers (3861 sq. mi.) equidistant across the entire surface of the planet. That’s an area larger than Delaware & Rhodes Island combined (6452 + 3140 km2), but still pretty darn small.
GAST is so questionable as to be worse than worthless for purposes of formulating public policy, IMO. It would help if Phil Jones’ dog had not eaten the data they supposedly got from the Met Office.

June 26, 2014 5:32 pm

Pat Frank says:
June 26, 2014 at 5:19 pm
The purpose is to increase state power & that of supranational regimes, while also providing a nice living & travel opportunity for Nick’s pal-reviewing buddies &, ideally, reducing the number of evil, greedy, carbon dioxide emitting humans.

Bill Illis
June 26, 2014 5:32 pm

Even the “adjusted” temperatures are not keeping up with the theory’s expectations or the climate model’s actual predictions.
Let’s say “half” of the trend is spurious over-active adjustments or 0.35C.
If the adjustments hadn’t been implemented, then they really would have had to rewrite the theory by now you would think.
They have no choice but to face the choice of re-writing the theory or continuing to adjust the old temperature records. That means they need to have about 1.4C of further adjustments in the next 86 years to reach the year 2100 +3.25C prediction. Now that’s alot of adjustments.
Can they keep up the pace? Another 1.4C of adjustments in just 86 years? Surely not.
Wrong.
It is only 0.0014C every month which is almost exactly the trend of 0.35C of adjustments over the last 20 years (more-or-less what they have been doing).
I’m afraid all those northerly crop growing regions, never did actually produce crops in 1900 like the old-timers tell us. There was frost into July you see, going by the historical record.

June 26, 2014 5:35 pm

Hey Anthony-
A hug.
That’s all.
Just a hug. For doing what you do. For taking the crap you take. For coming back day after day into this mess and being a truly nice, dedicated, and patient man. Especially when it would be so easy AND understandable to walk away.
So, no comment on the data or anything else today.
Just a hug.
That’s all.
🙂

June 26, 2014 5:39 pm

Old England says:
June 26, 2014 at 5:19 pm
Temperature increase in Vegas is thanks to square miles of paving & building, air conditioners, power plants, Hoover Dam, planes, trains (monorail), automobiles, humans & other heat-emitters & producers. Since “adjustments” for the UHI effect used by the Team tend to adjust urban temperatures up rather than down (as a rational person would expect), I’d like to see what the algorithms do for Vegas.
I wonder if the feds have placed new stations next to the relatively new power plants, as they so conveniently located a second, totally unnecessary for scientific purposes (but politically vital) Death Valley station opposite a south-facing rock wall, since the already good station wasn’t providing the desired new record high.

John Slayton
June 26, 2014 5:43 pm

Re: angech 4:45
I’m not sure who’s saying what in this comment, but I scratch my head at this:
Nobody has put up a new thermometer in rural USA in the last 30 years and none has considered using any of the rural thermometers of which possibly 3000 of the discarded 5782 cooperative network stations.
For many months I have been sitting on photos that I have taken of USHCN v.2 stations that I can’t upload to the gallery because the gallery has no folders for these sites. The gallery has no folders because these sites were not in the USHCN system at the time surfacestations.org was set up. These stations have been explicitly substituted for their predecessors which were dropped.
Chandler Heights AZ
Dulce NM
Farmington 3NW UT
Hysham 25 SSE MT
Marysvale UT
May 2 SSE ID
Nampa Sugar Factory ID
Nephi UT
Paris TX
Pearce-Sunsites AZ
Saint John WA
Salina 24E UT
Saint Regis 1NE MT
Scofield-Skyline Mine UT
Smith Center KS

Brandon C
June 26, 2014 5:47 pm

Nick
The problem is not in understanding the TOBS error. I agree that it can create uncertainty and introduce error. But the assumption that this is a uniform predictable error is laughable. Can you tell me what percentage of station records were done in that manner and which stations adjusted their methods to eliminate the error or when the ones that used alternate methods changed? No you cannot and nobody can. I know the people I talked to said they were told by the people that set up the station how to do it correctly to avoid TOBS, although they didn’t call it that. But the assumption that it was a uniform error that can be systematically adjusted for is frankly silly.
I know people don’t want to accept uncertainty in past temperatures, and the temptation to try and “correct” them is great. But pretending you are increasing accuracy by using such assumptions, doesn’t follow scientific reasoning. You are adding an additional area of uncertainty and should end up with the same level of uncertainty, or greater, since you will have corrected some and falsely corrected others. But since you don’t even have a accurate accounting of the percentage of methods used and if or when they changed, it would be proper science to leave it alone and document the uncertainties. At least then the science that uses the temp for base work would have an accurate accounting of the beginning uncertainties.
As far as using surrounding stations to infill. I currently live on a farm 20 miles from a city. The city has a good quality station about 3 miles from the city at a small airport and would rate well using the rating guidelines. A seed cleaning plant to my direct south 1/2 mile installed a official temp station about 5 years ago, also well sited away in pastureland a long way from anything else. They are both situated in the open prairie plains without hills or obstructions. The city station, uniformly reads 2-5 degrees C different that the local one. It is not an artifact of the station types because they disagree both warmer and colder, and simply driving to the city sees the car thermometers measuring the same difference. So if 2 stations 23 miles apart can vary by such amount, how accurate is infilling? OR for that matter, how accurate is looking for large steps and eliminating them. I have experiences such profound shifts of climate in our area, twice in my life (43 years), but both would have triggered a correction, but both were real and endured for multiple years before things changed.
Frankly, the endless adjustments and assumptions are not adding any accuracy and only serve to show the assumptions of the adjusters. It is only serving to add false sense of reduce uncertainties, when they are adding new uncertainties for every one they claim to correct. If you can’t do your climate science without all the assumptions and data adjustments, then it is time to admit you don’t have a strong scientific case. Since science done in the past, say pre-1999, must all be incorrect if they used historic temp series prior to such large adjustments and you could not compare data from old report to new ones since the past temps have changed nearly a degree in adjustments since. All these are adjustments are doing is adding hidden uncertainties in the place of known uncertainties.

Nick Stokes
June 26, 2014 6:00 pm

Pat Frank says:June 26, 2014 at 5:19 pm
“Nick wrote, “the purpose is to obtain an overall integral (or weighted sum).”
No, Nick. The purpose is to obtain physically accurate data.”

Here is what Hansen says in his 2001 paper:
“Some prefatory comments about adjustments to the temperature records are in order. The aim of adjustments is to make the temperature record more “homogeneous,” i.e., a record in which the temperature change is due only to local weather and climate.”
The purpose is not to provide an improved version of what that thermometer should have read. It may legitimately show changes that are not due to weather and climate (eg moves). The purpose is to remove bias – estimate what the temperature in thjat region would have been.

Latitude
June 26, 2014 6:13 pm

angech says:
June 26, 2014 at 4:58 pm
====
You guys did read angech’s post, right?

June 26, 2014 6:16 pm

You avoided the issue, Nick. Your reply is a complete non-sequitur; an irrelevance.

David Walton
June 26, 2014 6:21 pm

Re: It is an interesting life when I am accused of being in cahoots with both “big oil” and “big climate” at the same time.
Well of course you are! You are playing both sides against the middle. Machiavelli himself would be proud with such a deft and devious manipulation.
Just kidding Anthony. 😀 Thanks again for going into these details. We do live in interesting times.

richard verney
June 26, 2014 6:30 pm

Brandon C says:
June 26, 2014 at 4:52 pm
Sorry Nick, but the TOBS adjustments assumes a uniform error that can be simply corrected. But there is no simple or even defendable way to ascertain what measurements were correct and which ones were not, so the assumption of uniformity only adds uncertainty. A truly scientific approach would be to leave the data alone and develop error bars to reflect the uncertainty caused by the unknown past errors. By making assumptions of uniform error, adjusting the data, and then presenting it is having increased or equal accuracy is simply blatant unscientific.
//////////////////
Nailed.
The data is the data. It should never be adjusted. The only interpretation that needs to be made is to assess the errors, and assess the relevance. In other words leave the raw data alone, and just caveat its short commings. This will allow others (and in particular other generations) to review the data, and with better techniques and/or better understanding their assessment of the errors may be revised and/or its relevance altered.
Unfortunately we have destroyed the data such that we can no longer be sure what it says, and we are left with interpreting the adjustments not assessing what the data really tells us.
It is time to accept that it is not fit for purpose, and if we cannot restore the original record (a time consuming exercise that could only be conducted if the original raw data exists) it should simply be discarded. The temp data set was never going to be ideal since it has been put for a purpose for which it was never designed, and the land based record is not even measuring the right metric. Without relative hunidity it tells us nothing about energy imbalance.
Incidentally, Rob Dawg (says:June 26, 2014 at 4:13 pm) example not simply demonstrates confirmation bias, it shows why consensus has no place in science. The consensus approrach would be that the bus carries 20 passengers per hour, which is a huge over statement; the minority view (1 passenger per hour) whilst wrong would have been far nearer reality. It demonstrates the dangers inherent in accepting what the majority might consider to be the case..

June 26, 2014 6:33 pm

Some help is feasible where there are more than two readings per day.
UHI is largely caused by a change in thermal coupling and must produce a phase change. Some degree of correction is possible. Practical, don’t know.

angech
June 26, 2014 6:43 pm

Links to these comments? at angech says: June 26, 2014 at 4:46 pm above for Anthony
1 Re why adjustment is always done and always and only affects the distant past the most.
Also a list of number of actual stations??
.Zeke (Comment #130058 June 7th, 2014 at 11:45 am How not to calculate temperature 5 June, 2014
Mosh,
Actually, your explanation of adjusting distant past temperatures as a result of using reference stations is not correct. NCDC uses a common anomaly method, not RFM.
The reason why station values in the distant past end up getting adjusted is due to a choice by NCDC to assume that current values are the “true” values. Each month, as new station data come in, NCDC runs their pairwise homogenization algorithm which looks for non-climatic breakpoints by comparing each station to its surrounding stations. When these breakpoints are detected, they are removed. If a small step change is detected in a 100-year station record in the year 2006, for example, removing that step change will move all the values for that station prior to 2006 up or down by the amount of the breakpoint removed. As long as new data leads to new breakpoint detection, the past station temperatures will be raised or lowered by the size of the breakpoint.
An alternative approach would be to assume that the initial temperature reported by a station when it joins the network is “true”, and remove breakpoints relative to the start of the network rather than the end. It would have no effect at all on the trends over the period, of course, but it would lead to less complaining about distant past temperatures changing at the expense of more present temperatures changing.
.angech,
As I mentioned in the original post, about 300 of the 1218 stations originally assigned to the USHCN in the late 1980s have closed, mostly due to volunteer observers dying or otherwise stopping reporting. No stations have been added to the network to make up for this loss, so there are closer to 900 stations reporting on the monthly basis today.
.To folks in general,
If you don’t like infilling, don’t use infilled values and create a temperature record only from the 900 stations that are still reporting, or from all the non-infilled stations in each month. As the first graph in the post shows, infilling has no effect on CONUS-average temperatures.
2. He first commented to SG Zeke Hausfather says: May 10, 2014 at 3:08 pm
at the SG post Me Vs. Hansen Vs. NOAA Posted on May 10, 2014
Hi Steven,
Your analysis would greatly benefit from using anomalies rather than absolute temperatures, as everyone else working with temperature data does. Absolute temperatures cause problems when the composition of the station network is non-uniform over time, and anomalies are a relatively easy way to fix it without introducing any bias.
3. The comment on only 650 raw stations was in
Zeke Hausfather says: A Different Approach To The USHCN Code at the SG post
Posted on May 11, 2014 May 12, 2014 at 3:00 pm
The difference is straightforward enough. Even if you use monthly rather than annual averages of absolute temperatures, you will still run into issues related to underlying climatologies when you are comparing, say, 650 raw stations to 1218 adjusted stations. You can get around this issue either by using anomalies OR by comparing the 650 raw stations to the adjusted values of those same 650 stations.
The reason why the 1218 to 650 comparison leads you astray is that NCDC’s infilling approach doesn’t just assign the 1218 stations a distance-weighted average of the reporting 650 stations; rather, it adds the distance-weighted average anomaly to the monthly climate normals for the missing stations. This means that when you compare the raw and adjusted stations, differences in elevation and other climatological factors between the 1218 stations and the 650 stations will swamp any effects of actual adjustments (e.g. those for station moves, instrument changes, etc.). It also gives you an inconsistant record for raw stations, as the changing composition of the station network will introduce large biases into your estimate of absolute raw station records over time. Using anomalies avoids this problem, of course.
stevengoddard says: May 12, 2014 at 5:56 pm
In other words, they are fabricating data and generating fake temperatures – which very conveniently cool the past and warm the present, to turn an 80 year cooling trend into a warming trend. Got it.
Note he did not say that there were only 650 raw stations but he did use the right number USHCN attributed stations 1218 and it would seem strange that he would use a made up number rather than the real number when talking to SG of all people. Particularly when he used the figure ” closer to 900 stations reporting on the monthly basis today.” in 1. above only a few weeks later. Note he said 300 of the original assigned stations had closed due to stopping reporting but this leaves open how many stations were assigned later to replace other original stations and how many of these may have closed.
That figure could approach another an 370 stations that no longer exist [based on 650 raw original stations] and easily broach the 40% figure of made up data SG claims

angech
June 26, 2014 6:47 pm

comment 1 was at the blackboard blog I missed attributing How not to calculate temperature 5 June, 2014 (14:04) | Data Comparisons Written by: Zeke (Comment #130058 June 7th, 2014 at 11:45 am

jmrSudbury
June 26, 2014 6:53 pm

Latitude (June 26, 2014 at 2:40 pm) asks, “[d]id they lose 30% of their stations since 1990 or not? are they infilling those station now or not?”
The data Steven used was the raw that had -9999 and the final for the same station had an E for estimate beside the calculated number for a given month.
And Anthony asked for example of stations that have problems. One example: In Aug 2005, USH00021514 stopped publishing data (had -9999 instead of temperature data) save two months (June 2006 and April 2007) that have measurements. Save those two same months, the final tavg file has estimates from Aug 2005 until May 2014. The last year in its raw file is 2007.
John M Reynolds

angech
June 26, 2014 6:58 pm

John Slayton says: June 26, 2014 at 5:43 pm Re: angech 4:45
I’m not sure who’s saying what in this comment, but I scratch my head at this:
” Nobody has put up a new thermometer in rural USA in the last 30 years and none has considered using any of the rural thermometers of which possibly 3000 of the discarded 5782 cooperative network stations.” It was irony and sarcasm , John, sorry if you did not get it but it was a comment at another blog where it was more suited. I am sure we all know there are some new thermometers out there somewhere. Not that you are allowed to use them historically of course [inserts smiley face]

Duster
June 26, 2014 6:58 pm


Brian R says:
June 26, 2014 at 12:12 pm
A couple of things. Has anybody done a comparison between the old USHCN and new USCRN data? I know the USCRN is a much shorter record but it should be telling about data quality of the USHCN. Also if a majority of the measured temperature increase is from UHI affecting the night time temps, why not use TMAX temps only?. It seems to figure that if “Global Warming” was true it should effect daytime temps a much as night time.

The trend in CRN is very slightly negative. So slight that for statistical purposes, you should assume no change over the published span. Zero trend falls within the estimate error of the mean.

June 26, 2014 6:59 pm

Nick Stokes says:
June 26, 2014 at 6:00 pm
Nick, as you must know, GAST is a highly artificial construct designed with a particular outcome in mind. It is as far from scientific “data” as it is possible with human ingenuity to devise.
Set aside the totally unjustified systematic cooling of older observations & warming of more recent “data”. How about Jones’ admitted “adjustment” of ocean surface “data” to align them with land surface “data” because, after being adjusted upwards by, among other “tricks”, adjusting for UHI effect by making urban readings warmer rather than cooler, land & sea numbers were out of whack (imagine that!), so of course the adjustment needed was to make the less stepped on ocean observations (2/3 of earth) warmer rather than the land “data” (1/3) cooler.
At every opportunity to rig the data, the Team has opted to cook the books rather than chill them.
That is all ye need to know of GAST. GIGO & not worth the electrons expended in rigging the numbers.

Matthew R Marler
June 26, 2014 7:05 pm

thank you. This was a good post. Good luck with the new publication.

Matthew R Marler
June 26, 2014 7:08 pm

Nick Stokes: You can interpolate anomaly; it varies fairly smoothly.
I doubt you could show that. It sounds like an unverifiable assumption — maybe reasonable, maybe not, but hardly trustworthy.

Matthew R Marler
June 26, 2014 7:14 pm

Nick Stokes: You can interpolate anomaly; it varies fairly smoothly.
Is it the case that change due to CO2 is much less variable, across space and time, than baseline temperature?

A. Smith
June 26, 2014 7:14 pm

Use all the data from all locations, but just use MAXIMUM temperatures. You’ve proven that the minimum temperature has risen due to UHI in some location, so toss it. Toss all minimum temperatures from all locations. The anomaly should be pretty accurate then…..unless ….. UHI is hiding a more significant cooling trend.

norah4you
June 26, 2014 7:19 pm

Those believing that 30 or 50 stations is a solution better rethink – correct figure needs to be over 100 000 and that still wouldn’t present a correct view of reality.
Why? That one was easy to answer: Statistic is one thing. Approximation an other. Two places less than 1000 meter apart can have different hights over sealevel different winds and ground under and if they are located in areas on Northern Hemisphere where the last Ice Age’s Ice Coat once pressed land down they almost certainly have had completely different “uprise” ( Archimedes principle ) This in itself needs to be taken into consideration because that factor alone has more impact on divergenses between to places located less than 1000 meters from each other than anyone of the Alarmists ever thought of.
Then there is of course a hugh statistic science as well as theory of science aspect on the CO2 question. Deliberatly chosen “stations” can never ever be used as equalizer of other place than where those stations are located. It’s a hugh difference between random chosen observations and pre-hypotes-testing chosen ones….
Alarmists better read: Huff’s How to lie with statistic today and yesterday they used almost all of the non scientific methods Huff warned could be used.

Editor
June 26, 2014 7:22 pm

NikFromNYC says:
June 26, 2014 at 12:11 pm

I pointed out the Goddard/Marcott analogy on the 24th, twice, and was roundly attacked for it since my name isn’t McIntyre,

Thanks, Nik. Reading at Bishop’s, I can’t find one comment saying the Goddard/Marcott analogy was wrong. Not one. So I can only conclude that you weren’t attacked for making that analogy, as you now insist.
Instead, there were commenters saying that your rant about Steve, starting with

Goddard was such a willfully sensationalistic fool that …

and segueing through such things as

His regular promotion of a brain washing gun control conspiracy theory complete with Holocaust photos loses him the entire Internet culture debate for *all* of us skeptics because he has the second highest traffic skeptical site.

without a single link to Steve’s alleged crimes of commission and omission … well, the commenters said, that might be both a bit (or two) over the top, and in any case, wildly off-topic and immaterial to the scientific question.
Next time, you might be pleasantly surprised at what happens if you just address the scientific question, and leave the polemical rant for some other thread where it would be on-topic.
All the best,
w.

1 3 4 5 6 7 11
Verified by MonsterInsights