A baseless Mann UVa email – claims by Mann spliced and diced

MBH98-tempchart-hockey-stick

Richard S. Courtney writes in comments on the Mann and misrepresentations thread…

Anthony:

In the same week as MBH98 was published I wrote an email on the ‘ClimateSkeptics’ circulation list. That email objected to the ‘hockeystick’ graph because the graph had an overlay of ‘thermometer’ data over the plotted ‘proxy’ data. This overlay was – I said – misleading because it was an ‘apples and oranges’ comparison: of course, I was not then aware of the ‘hide the decline’ (aka “Mike’s Nature trick”) issue.

Unknown to me, somebody copied my email to Michael Mann and he replied.

‘Climategate’ revealed that email from Michael Mann and it can be read here:

http://www.ecowho.com/foia.php?file=3046.txt&search=medieval

Mann’s response consists solely of personal abuse against me and, importantly, it does not address the issue which I had raised immediately upon seeing the ‘hockeystick’ graph. Hence, I am certain that the graphical malpractice of the ‘hockeystick’ was both witting and deliberate.

I’ve reproduced the email below, the redactions were in the linked content that Courtney cites. Mann’s claims about dataset splicing are laughable, as even the Muir Russell investigation (for the later version which appeared in the IPCC TAR) labeled it as such, as McIntyre notes:

Here are Muir Russell’s comments on the IPCC 2001 incident (of which Mann was Lead Author), which they somewhat conflated with the WMO 1999 incident of the “trick” email:

In relation to “hide the decline” we find that, given its subsequent iconic significance (not least the use of a similar figure in the TAR), the figure supplied for the WMO Report was misleading in not describing that one of the series was truncated post 1960 for the figure, and in not being clear on the fact that proxy and instrumental data were spliced together. We do not find that it is misleading to curtail reconstructions at some point per se, or to splice data, but we believe that both of these procedures should have been made plain – ideally in the figure but certainly clearly described in either the caption or the text.

Here is the email Courtney speaks of:

date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:41:12 +010 ???

from: Phil Jones <???@uea.ac.uk>

subject: Re: Global Surface Record Must Be Wrong

to: ???@uea.ac.uk,???@uea.ac.uk

>X-Sender: ???@holocene.evsc.virginia.edu

>Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 10:29:15 -0400

>To: ???@lanl.gov

>From: “Michael E. Mann” <???@virginia.edu>

>Subject: Re: Global Surface Record Must Be Wrong

>Cc: ???@geo.umass.edu, ???@uea.ac.uk

>

>Chick,

>

>This guys email is intentional deceipt. Our method, as you know, doesn’t

>include any “splicing of two different datasets”-this is a myth perptuated

>by Singer and his band of hired guns, who haven’t bothered to read our

>papers or the captions of the figures they like to mis-represent…

>

>Phil Jones, Ray Bradley, and Malcolm Hughes dispelled much of the mythology

>expressed below years ago.

>

>This is intentional misrepresentation. For his sake, I hope does not go

>public w/ such comments!

>

>mike

>

>>Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 08:38:35 +0100 ???(BST)

>>X-Envelope-From: ???@courtney01.cix.co.uk

>>X-Sender: ???@mail.compulink.co.uk

>>To: Chick Keller <???@lanl.gov>

>>From: COURTNEY <???@courtney01.cix.co.uk>

>>Subject: Re: Global Surface Record Must Be Wrong

>>X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by

>holocene.evsc.virginia.edu id DAA27832

>>

>>Dear Chick:

>>

>>Your past performance demonstrates that your recent piece to Peter Dietze is

>>unworthy of you. Smears and inuendoes are not adequate substitutes for

>>evidence and reasoned argument. You say;

>>”As to Michael Mann’s “hocky stick” paleo-temperature graph, I realize why

>>many attack it for it puts the nail in the coffen of the argument that

>>recent natural variability is as large as what has been observed in the 20th

>>century.”

>>

>>No ! People attack the ‘hockey stick’ because it is uses an improper

>>procedure to assess inadequate data as a method to provide a desired result.

>>I have defended Mann et al. from accusations of scientific “fraud” because I

>>am willing to accept that this was done in naive stupidity, but I am not

>>willing to accept that is good science. As you say, “people like Mann,

>>Briffa, Jones, etc.” have conducted “careful work”, but doing the wrong

>>thing carefully does not make it right.

>>

>>The ‘hockey stick’ is obtained by splicing two different data sets. Similar

>>data to the earlier data set exists for up to near the present and could

>>have been spliced on, but this would not show the ‘hockey stick’ and was not

>>done.

>>

>>Also, it is not true to say, as you have;

>>”But, it’s going to take more than rhetoric about Europe’s Little Ice Age

>>and Medieval Warming to get around the careful work of people like Mann,

>>Briffa, Jones, etc.”

>>Nobody in their right mind is going to place more trust in the proxy data of

>>”Mann, Briffa, Jones, etc.” than in the careful – and taxed – tabulations in

>>the Doomesday Book. The Medieval Warm Period is documented from places

>>distributed around the globe, and it is not adequate to assert that it was

>>”not global” because it did not happen everywhere at exactly the same time:

>>the claimed present day global warming is not happening everywhere at the

>>exactly the same time. Indeed, you say;

>>”recent temperature anomalies show that, while the tropics is cooler than

>>usual due to La Niña, the rest of the world is pretty much still as warm as

>>in 1998.”

>>

>>It is historical revisionism to assert that the Little Ice Age and Medieval

>>Warming did not happen or were not globally significant. It will take much,

>>much more than analyses of sparse and debatable proxy data to achieve such a

>>dramatic overturning of all the historical and archaelogical evidence for

>>the Little Ice Age and the Medieval Warm Period. Those who wish to make

>>such assertions should explain why all the historical and archaelogical

>>evidence is wrong or – failing that – they should expect to be ridiculed.

>>

>>All the best

>>

>>Richard

>>

>>>Dear Peter,

>>>

>>>In a recent message to Tom Wigley you wrote:

>>>

>>>>”Nowadays, what is measured is mostly quite correct. This holds for the

>>>>counts of frogs, butterflies and for the MSU measurements as well as for

>>>>the ground station readings. What is seriously flawed, are the biased

>>>>*interpretations*. So the surface record may be not wrong at all and

>>>>part of the warming is indeed anthropogenic. Wrong is only the paradigm

>>>>that ground warming is mostly caused by CO2 – and that this warming has

>>>>to show up in the lower troposphere as well. It is striking how the

>>>>ground warming grid pattern coincides with winter heating (Vincent Gray)

>>>>- if the warming was caused by CO2 it should rather be evenly

>>>>distributed over the globe, MSU-detected and only being modified by

>>>>meteorological conditions. Note that this energy caused warming only

>>>>depends on our energy demand and does hardly increase with CO2

>>>>concentration. So this warming should neither be allocated to the CO2

>>>>increment nor be misused with future CO2 projections.”

>>>

>>>I have been looking at NCDC plots of global temperature anomalis divided

>>>into three regions- tropics (20N–20S) and the rest of the

>>>globe–(20N–90N) and (20S–90S). When looked at that way, recent

>>>temperature anomalies show that, while the tropics is cooler than usual due

>>>to La Niña, the rest of the world is pretty much still as warm as in 1998.

>>>This is particularly true of northern subtropics and southern subtropical

>>>oceans. The most recent data in fact show the following: for the period

>>>March-May 2000, the northern subtropics are the warmest march-may ever, and

>>>the southern subtropics are essentially as warm as in 1998. Note that this

>>>is not in the winter for either hemisphere. Thus, it would seem to be

>>>important not to make too much of the winter-only observations.

>>>

>>>As to Michael Mann’s “hocky stick” paleo-temperature graph, I realize why

>>>many attack it for it puts the nail in the coffen of the argument that

>>>recent natural variability is as large as what has been observed in the

>>>20th century. Gene Parker in the most recent Physics Today just pushed

>>>that point of view citing 20 year-old work as his only support. But, it’s

>>>going to take more than rhetoric about Europe’s Little Ice Age and Medieval

>>>Warming to get around the careful work of people like Mann, Briffa, Jones,

>>>etc. And more recently , Tom Crowley’s article in last week’s Science!!!

>>>Their work includes those acknowledged regional events (LIA and MWP) and

>>>still shows the 20th cent. to be anomalous. (I might add here that it also

>>>calls into question suggestions that solar variability has an additional

>>>indirect forcing amplification since that should have come out of the data.

>>>Instead most published studies show a significant solar influence but a

>>>moderate one.) And so the only way around recent thousand year paleo

>>>studies is for more comprehensive hemispheric and global studies that fill

>>>in acknowledged gaps and in addition show that climate variability is

>>>larger than recent studies show.

>>>

>>> Perhaps a more fruitful approach would be to ask what the magnitude

>>>of regional variations has been in the past 150 years. If there are no

>>>regions whose temperature variations were very far from the global average,

>>>then one could legitimately ask how clear anomalies such as the little ice

>>>age could have been sustained in the face of the larger hemispheric

>>>climate. As one example I might cite the eastern United States and perhaps

>>>a large region to the north east since 1940. It clearly has not

>>>participated in the global trend, so much so that urban heat island fans

>>>cite it as an example of how good records (the US) don’t show as much

>>>warming as bad records (the rest of the world).

>>>

>>>Regards,

>>>Charles. “Chick” F. Keller,

>>>Institute of Geophysics and Planetary Physics/University of California

>>>Mail Stop MS C-305

>>>Los Alamos National Laboratory

>>>Los Alamos, New Mexico, 87545

>>>???@lanl.gov

>>>Phone: (505)???

>>>FAX: (505)???

>>>http://www.igpp.lanl.gov/climate.html

>>>

>>>Every thoughtful man who hopes for the creation of a contemporary culture

>>>knows that this hinges on one central problem: to find a coherent relation

>>>between science and the humanities. –Jacob Bronowski

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>_________________________________________

>                    Professor Michael E. Mann

>         Department of Environmental Sciences, Clark Hall

>                     University of Virginia

>                     Charlottesville, VA 22903

>_________________________________________

>e-mail: ???@virginia.edu Phone: (804)??? FAX: (804)???

>         http://www.evsc.virginia.edu/faculty/people/mann.html

>

>

Prof. Phil Jones

Climatic Research Unit        Telephone +44 ???

School of Environmental Sciences    Fax +44 ???

University of East Anglia

Norwich                         Email    ???@uea.ac.uk

NR4 7TJ

UK

============================================================

UPDATE: Steve McIntyre responded in comments, saying he didn’t think the “splicing” issue in MBH98 was a substantial issue for him,  and I responded to him, giving my reasons for why I disagree.

For the sake of completeness to discussing this issue, I’m elevating his comment and my response to the body of the post. – Anthony

Steve McIntyre says:

May 12, 2014 at 7:14 am

Anthony, this post has numerous errors, none of which should be made by people interested in this topic. It is very disappointing to read such material.

In Mann et al 1998 (as Jean S first figured out), to calculate the smooth, Mann padded the MBH98 proxy reconstruction after its 1980 end point with instrumental data. Mann only used the smooth up to 1980. This was “Mike’s Nature trick”. Jean S observed the irony of this procedure, given Mann’s protestations against splicing, but the effect was relatively subtle. Contra Courtney’s conflation of “hide the decline aka Mike’s Nature trick, Mike’s Nature trick applied in Mann et al 1998 had NOTHING to do with “hide the decline” – which was an issue with the Briffa reconstruction.

Further, in Courtney’s 1998 email, he said:

The ‘hockey stick’ is obtained by splicing two different data sets. Similar data to the earlier data set exists for up to near the present and could have been spliced on, but this would not show the ‘hockey stick’ and was not done.

In the Mann et al 1998 diagram criticized in Courtney’s email, the proxy reconstruction and the observed data are distinguished by being plotted in different colors or different line type. In other words, they were not “spliced” in the diagram. In Courtney’s recent email to Anthony, he says that the above email “objected to the ‘hockeystick’ graph because the graph had an overlay of ‘thermometer’ data over the plotted ‘proxy’ data. This overlay was – I said – misleading because it was an ‘apples and oranges’ comparison: of course,” I, for one, would never have guessed that this was the criticism being made in the original email. While Mann’s response was marred by his all-too-typical invective, I can well understand why he rejected the allegation in Courtney’s email.

In Courtney’s recent covering email to Anthony, he now characterizes his earlier objection as an objection to proxy reconstructions being plotted on the same graph as observations as follows:

That email objected to the ‘hockeystick’ graph because the graph had an overlay of ‘thermometer’ data over the plotted ‘proxy’ data. This overlay was – I said – misleading because it was an ‘apples and oranges’ comparison: of course, I was not then aware of the ‘hide the decline’ (aka “Mike’s Nature trick”) issue.

While, as noted above, it would have been very difficult, if not impossible, for a contemporary reader to discern this meaning, this criticism is equally invalid in my opinion. I, for one, absolutely do not take issue with plotting a proxy reconstruction on the same scale as observations. I and others take issue with the “divergence problem” precisely because when one plots the Briffa reconstruction against observed temperatures in the 20th century, the two plots diverge. According to Courtney’s criticism, it would be invalid to do such a plot. This is absurd. This does not mean that I endorse the muddiness of Mann’s graphics or other defects. Only that I, for one, do not take issue with plotting a reconstruction and observations on the same scale. On the contrary, it is something that I’ve done on many occasions. As I said to Courtney at CA on this point, if I’m unconvinced on this issue, I can’t imagine why a judge or jury would be convinced.

In the WMO 1999 graphic, Jones deleted values of the Briffa reconstruction after 1950 or so (the decline), spliced instrumental temperature to the end of the record, smoothed the combination and plotted the spliced version (without peeling back to 1950 as in Mike’s Nature trick.)

Muir Russell criticized the truncation and splicing of data in WMO1999 as follows:

the figure supplied for the WMO Report was misleading in not describing that one of the series was truncated post 1960 for the figure, and in not being clear on the fact that proxy and instrumental data were spliced together.

However, he did not take issue with plotting proxy reconstructions and observations on the same graphic. (Not that Muir Russell would be definitive on this.)

There are important issues in connection with the Mann corpus. This is not one of them. Too often, Mann’s opponents make irrelevant and easily rebutted criticisms. Unfortunately, this makes it easier for Mann to avoid more substantive criticisms. For a full explication of the differences between the various incidents, I refer people to the following CA post: http://climateaudit.org/2011/03/29/keiths-science-trick-mikes-nature-trick-and-phils-combo/

========================================================================

REPLY: Thanks for your opinion and clarifications Steve. Bear in mind that Courtney wrote this before the “trick” and truncation was known. While I often defer to your superior knowledge on the subject of MBH98 it is my respectfully differing opinion that plotting the two datasets together (proxy reconstruction and instrumental temperatures) is indeed problematic and misleading in that both techniques have different samplings and sensitivities to temperature.

Instrumental temperature is much more sensitive than tree ring derived proxy temperature, which has a long time domain and is not exclusively a representation of temperature, due to equal if not greater sensitivity to other variables, as I pointed out here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/09/28/a-look-at-treemometers-and-tree-ring-growth/

While Courtney’s complaint is most certainly incomplete in today’s perspective, we shouldn’t just say that plotting two dissimilar datasets on the same chart without proper caveats is a proper practice.

An analog to the spliced combination plot of Mann’s MBH98 graph in today’s climate arena might be this: suppose somebody wants to argue that hurricanes in the NH are becoming more frequent, and they are the more frequent now than in the last 1000 years.

One way to do this is to look at historical reports of hurricanes in literature, newspapers, magazines and other historical writings. These would be a “proxy” for the actual frequency of hurricanes in a given year. Suppose that the researcher was able to find enough reports to to make what looks like a viable dataset, but that instead of using historical writings to determine frequency of hurricanes in the 20th century, the actual record of named hurricanes (essentially observations) was used, such as this graph, which has a nice “hockey stick” shape implying that hurricanes frequency had increased dramatically in the late 20th century.

Arguably, that’s incomplete, showing only the Atlantic, but it’s the best I can do on short notice before I head to work this morning.

The combination of the two datasets, historical literature accounts, plus named storms in the north Atlantic might very well look much like Mann’s flat section of the hockey stick up to about 1925…mostly flat, maybe a slight increasing trend. It would likely look a lot like this graph you plotted in the CA discussion of Besonen et al 2008 (which has other issues independent of this discussion, I’m only using it as an example of what such a graph for this discussion might look like).

To the layman and even to some scientists, they might take such a construct of hurricane historical accounts (proxy) and named storms (observations) as being proof that hurricane frequency is indeed dramatically increasing in the 20th century.

But the issue is sampling and sensitivity. As you’ve pointed out many times, low sampling and/or selected sampling of proxies leads to spurious results when extrapolated to a larger scale (regional to global for example).

From a sensitivity standpoint, since human literature is less frequent as a we go back in time, we’d expect any dataset of historical hurricane accounts to have lower sensitivity to the actual number of hurricanes in any given year simply due to population density and the lack of communications. Many storms would go unreported.

Even in the 20th century data, as shown in the Pew graph above, this effect is likely, due to the early part of the century having lower population, and less ability to observe hurricanes due to a lower level of technology. I talk about this effect in the reporting bias of “extreme weather” here: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/04/19/why-it-seems-that-severe-weather-is-getting-worse-when-the-data-shows-otherwise-a-historical-perspective/ So even the Pew graph would almost certainly have a lower representation for named storms in the pre-satellite era.

So, for the purposes of my exercise, knowing that the two datasets for hurricane frequency would have different samplings and sensitivities to actual hurricane frequency in the NH, would it be proper to put these two datasets together into a single graph to argue that hurricane frequency in the NH is the “highest ever” at the endpoint of the graph?

From my viewpoint it would not be, because these two datasets have significantly different samplings and sensitivities to actual hurricanes. The layman doesn’t likely know this, and many of the media that might seize on such a graph probably wouldn’t note this as they often work from press releases. A press release about this hurricane frequency “paper” probably wouldn’t trumpet the fact that the two datasets are greatly dissimilar, and that as you go back in time, the sampling is less, and the sensitivity in the last part of the graph to hurricanes is dramatically higher than any part of the record.

And that’s why I see the splicing in MBH98 as another “trick”. Putting the two dissimilar datasets together implied they have equal sampling and sensitivity to temperature, when they clearly don’t, and the public and the media ran with that visual almost entirely without questioning it, because even though the colors were different, many newspapers back then didn’t reproduce in color, and many people simply take the graph’s “total shape” at face value, without realizing the differences between the two datasets.

(added, here is what a newsprint version of MBH98 might look like…note the dataset delineations disappear, laymen and politicians certainly wouldn’t be able to see beyond the total graph shape in B&W))

To me, that’s just as wrong as the truncation and the overlay issues.

Plotting/splicing two similar datasets of equal sampling and sensitivity in my mind is not an issue. Plotting two greatly dissimilar datasets with unequal sampling and sensitivity, is an issue.

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RokShox
May 12, 2014 3:53 pm

NikFromNYC:
Re your post at May 12, 2014 at 1:52 pm: When you extend temperature data before 1980 aren’t you getting into the calibration period of the proxy reconstruction? Why wouldn’t you expect agreement?

john robertson
May 12, 2014 3:54 pm

Interesting posting.
Thanks Richard Courtney, many long thankless years waiting for the rest of us to catch up.
I appreciate your tireless efforts.
Much of the noise and fury here seems to be centred on the “quality” of the snake oil,is it Courtney defined Brand or McIntyre defined Brand? That matters?
As Richard rightly called it its still snake oil.
The works of Mann will live in Infamy.
Though I think we should agree to pardon The Mann, if he comes clean.
For he has proven to be a truth seekers best friend, no individual has done more to turn public opinion against the IPCC and the CAGW meme.

May 12, 2014 3:56 pm

Gary Pearse says:
May 12, 2014 at 3:31 pm
How many of Richard’s detractors have been engaging in the debate for almost 20 yrs?

– – – – – – – – – – –
Gary Pearse,
Please tell me who is a detractor of richardscourtney on this thread. Who?
John

May 12, 2014 4:07 pm

Zeke Hausfather says:
May 12, 2014 at 3:47 pm
Theo Goodwin,
It matters where the proxy data ended if folks are accusing Mann et al of using “splicing” to suppress divergent proxy data. Briffa was not an author of MBH 98
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The divergence problem appeared versus the instrumental record in the range of 1950 to 1960 depending on which specific type of tree. So, for a document published in 1998, it had already been known of for nearly four decades, perhaps more. So, EVEN IF the presentation of data was in a manner that Steve M says is OK by the standards of a statistician, the fact is that anyone current on that specific field of science (of which Mann insists that he was not only current, but a leading researcher in the world on that topic) would have known that the proxy data did not track the instrumental record for nearly 1/3 the course of the instrumental record. To portray it in ANY WAY as being a good proxy with that information in hand is criminal.

May 12, 2014 4:24 pm

Let’s start with Mosher and McIntyre (I admire both these guys a lot – I was taken aback by the dismissive and in Mosher’s case by down right meanness and insulting remarks) . There are also a lot of hair-splitters and semanticists too-refined with the benefit of an additional decade and a half of data and analysis to draw from who have cast a few stones. In an earlier comment on this thread I suggested that criticizing Newton because Einstein had a more encompassing theory would be considered an outrageous slur on the 17th Century genius about whom it wouldn’t be too severely hyperbolic to suggest invented physics and mathematics. Actually on that subject, I have read a lot of modern critiques of this fellow because he dabbled in alchemy and had spiritualistic and numerological notions. Since, Einstein has come in for criticism by modern physicists, although, none to my knowledge seems likely to make it on to a brief list of the “giants of sciants”.

May 12, 2014 4:30 pm

Richard G says:
May 12, 2014 at 3:51 pm
– – – – – – – – – – –
Richard G,
Re; Splicing.
Instead of a term (splicing) that clearly is not a description ( in any normal use of the term) of what goes on in the graphics under discussion, just instead precisely describe in climate science related (and associated formal statistical) terms the treatment of the relevant endpoints of the datasets in question in the subject graphic in MBH98.
That simple approach to what richardscourtney claimed was ‘splicing’ resolves itself into precise understanding. His use of ‘slicing’ initiated an incorrect premise into his argument.
John

RokShox
May 12, 2014 4:30 pm

When Mann wrote in his email
“Our method, as you know, doesn’t include any ‘splicing of two different datasets'”,
I believe he mistook Courtney’s criticism as applying to his proxy reconstruction method itself, not to the final plot of the reconstruction augmented with instrumental data.

Theo Goodwin
May 12, 2014 4:34 pm

davidmhoffer says:
May 12, 2014 at 4:07 pm
Right on the money!

RokShox
May 12, 2014 5:04 pm

In the version of MBH98 archived here
http://www.meteo.psu.edu/holocene/public_html/shared/articles/mbh98.pdf
There is no multicolored plot clearly indicating a difference between reconstructed and instrumental temperatures. In fact, the plotted reconstruction (Figure 5b) makes no indication either on figure or in caption that instrumental data is represented at all.
Also, in the running text the authors make pointed remarks about the uniqueness of certain years post-1980:
“Taking into account the uncertainties in our NH reconstruction (see Methods), it appears that the years 1990, 1995 and now 1997 (this value recently calculated and not shown) each show anomalies that are greater than any other year back to 1400 at 3 standard errors, or roughly a 99.7% level of certainty.”
If their post-1980 results are instrumental, how can they make such comparisons?
Count me thoroughly confused.

May 12, 2014 5:21 pm

Theo my point is pretty simple.
Read Steve’s post on the epa.
In that you will see examples of how investigations
Made use of poorly argued imprecise accusations.
In short people like Courtney with no deep knowledge
Made trivial and wrong and tangential claims.
The defense proceeds by attacking the worst arguments
And avoiding the best.
That is indisputeable.
Comes now the styne case. My suggestion is that no one
Not Courtney not anthony has any business clouding
The debate with weak tangential non issues.
If Courtney were being sued and you were the expert
Who had selflessly devoted years of effort to the issue
I wouldnt say anything except “let theo make his case and if you dont have a comment on point thenn dont confuse
The marketplace of ideas.”

Sceptical lefty
May 12, 2014 5:48 pm

Congratulations to Richard Courtney for withdrawing from this thread. It was becoming bogged down with casuistic arguments and threatening to descend into undignified acrimony. Can we not accept that Messrs McIntyre and Courtney have differing views on a subject that is not critical to the overall AGW scandal, and let the matter rest there?

ferdberple
May 12, 2014 6:11 pm

Steve McIntyre says:
May 12, 2014 at 7:14 am
Mann padded the MBH98 proxy reconstruction after its 1980 end point with instrumental data.
==============
padding proxy data with instrument data is most definitely ‘splicing of two different datasets’. the only issue is the length of the splice.
This would change the tail of the moving average, hiding any sharp trend break between the proxy and the temperature data. There is no way this is an acceptable mathematical approach. It most certainly has the appearance of a deliberate manipulation, to mislead the reader as to the facts shown by the true, un-manipulated data.

ferdberple
May 12, 2014 6:15 pm

“Our method, as you know, doesn’t include any ‘splicing of two different datasets’”,
==========
I did not have sexual relations with that woman.
Like “sexual relations”, it all depends on the definition of ‘splicing’. If you define anything narrowly enough, you didn’t do it. You did something a whole lot similar, but of course that is the lie of omission. You leave out talking about “a whole lot similar”.

Richard G
May 12, 2014 6:27 pm

John Whitman says:May 12, 2014 at 4:30 pm
Excuse me, but the notion that tree rings are any sort of proxy for temperature is ludicrous.
Just to clarify the experimental design here: are Mann’s instrumental temperature records collected from the same location as his tree ring data? If not, how can there be any correlation?
Try calibrating the tree rings with real on site temperature data. Then maybe we will get somewhere. What? Can’t do that? Sorry, not my problem.
As to the treatment of the relevant endpoints, If the tree ring data is garbage, the conclusions are garbage. In that case the endpoints don’t matter. Sorry Mikey.

Mikel Marinelarena
May 12, 2014 6:36 pm

I think that the problem lies in the fact that the MBH98 Nature paper did not have a graph that looked like the one at the top of this post. Their reconstruction/actual temps graph in page 5 of this document: http://www.meteo.psu.edu/holocene/public_html/shared/articles/mbh98.pdf was quite different and does seem to include a sufficient amount of information to discern that two different data sets were used in it. That the MBH98 conclusions regarding individual years/decades were unwarranted (as concluded by the Wegman and NAS reports) and that this graph was later misused to promote the famous Hockey Stick without the caveats in the original paper are a different issue. Having said that, I find Mosher’s reaction disgusting.

Crispin in Waterloo but really in Yogyakarta
May 12, 2014 6:56 pm

This point is of course critical, fundamental:
>>…so it actually overlaps with the proxy plot, there is a nearly perfect correlation,
>Yes, the proxy data sets were selected to do that using the (ridiculous) assumption that the proxy values which did that would have done the same previously and subsequently. [RSC]
It is relevant to recall how “that which was plotted” as tree ring temps was detected and selected. Finding a set of sets that was selected to give a certain shape and then tweaking which inputs sets to include and exclude until there was a period of overlap with thermometer data implies nefarious intent although one could claim it was ‘calibration’ (which I think happened).
In the circumstances, finding the ‘desired (flat) 600 year temp proxy that met the ‘overlap’ requirement happened to also find that it did not continue to overlap for the recent years. Plotting both on a chart? I still have a problem with the selection method which stands as an independent problem. Plotting both, also had issues even when carefully sifting through tree rings for the desired outcome (to match the real temps).
So the older thermometer data was truncated until the overlap occurred.
The tree ring proxy was truncated until the divergence occurred.
They were plotted as a single data set, according to the link above to the paper.
That is a splice. Clearly and unequivocally. It isn’t even tree ring temp proxies and temps, it is sifted garbage and temps. I could get the same ring-result by measuring sets of hot dog remnants at the Waterloo dumpsite if I was allowed to choose which summer weekends to include.
So where did the full colour version with text noting the two as separate come from? Which version was used to promote CO2-rooted AGW alarmism? The ‘annotated two-colour spliced’ one or the ‘B&W single series spliced’ one?

May 12, 2014 7:04 pm

Richard G says:
May 12, 2014 at 6:27 pm
Whitman says:May 12, 2014 at 4:30 pm
Excuse me, but the notion that tree rings are any sort of proxy for temperature is ludicrous.
Just to clarify the experimental design here: are Mann’s instrumental temperature records collected from the same location as his tree ring data? If not, how can there be any correlation?
Try calibrating the tree rings with real on site temperature data. Then maybe we will get somewhere. What? Can’t do that? Sorry, not my problem.
As to the treatment of the relevant endpoints, If the tree ring data is garbage, the conclusions are garbage. In that case the endpoints don’t matter. Sorry Mikey.

– – – – – – – – – –
Richard G,
I have seen cases made about all your points, and I have often found they are worth discussion in an open venue.
But, the year 2000 email that richardscourtney sent to Chick Keller (Los Alamos Nat’l Lab) which was forwarded to Michael Mann and the richardscourtney commentary response to Mann’s email critical of richardscourtney deals with specific issues that are not specifically the ones you mention.
The specific issues mentioned by Mssrs Mann, Keller and Courtney are the ones at hand initiated by richardscourtney.
John

Theo Goodwin
May 12, 2014 7:09 pm

Steven Mosher says:
May 12, 2014 at 5:21 pm
The idea that what Courtney says will be confused with what Steve says strikes me as nonsense.
However, the more important point is that you are calling for censorship. At present, it is voluntary self-censorship, but the fact that you are here making this argument worries me when I think what might develop from it.
In addition, please note that you are offering yourself as the censor. That too is worrying.

May 12, 2014 7:45 pm

Steven Mosher says:
May 12, 2014 at 5:21 pm
Theo my point is pretty simple.
Read Steve’s post on the epa.
In that you will see examples of how investigations
Made use of poorly argued imprecise accusations.
In short people like Courtney with no deep knowledge
Made trivial and wrong and tangential claims.
The defense proceeds by attacking the worst arguments
And avoiding the best.
That is indisputeable.
Comes now the styne case. My suggestion is that no one
Not Courtney not anthony has any business clouding
The debate with weak tangential non issues.
If Courtney were being sued and you were the expert
Who had selflessly devoted years of effort to the issue
I wouldnt say anything except “let theo make his case and if you dont have a comment on point thenn dont confuse
The marketplace of ideas.”

– – – – – – – – –
Steven Mosher,
I appreciate you staying around to augment your initial comment with additional comments. Please do it more often.
It is indeed a marketplace of climate science ideas. When putting ideas into the market we all should have a disclaimer that the ideas are our own and do not represent the views of others. We should say all errors are strictly our own.
Your caution for us all to show restraint in marketing climate science ideas seems reasonable.
I think there are enough resources at WUWT for anyone to get counsel before marketing a climate science idea.
Mosher – a question – what do you call the style of verse that you used in your first and most recent comment?
John

RokShox
May 12, 2014 8:40 pm

Mikel Marinelarena May 12, 2014 at 6:36 pm
Look at Figure 7 in MBH98. The top panel labeled “NH” is the proxy reconstruction augmented with instrumental temp data. The caption of that figure does reflect that, and two different line styles are used.
Closer inspection of Figure 5b does show that instrumental data is used, and the notation on the graph “ACTUAL DATA (1902-1995)” acknowledges it. I thought that line was only being used to show that the reconstruction was normalized to the 1902-1995 mean.

May 12, 2014 9:07 pm

Steven Mosher;
Comes now the styne case. My suggestion is that no one
Not Courtney not anthony has any business clouding
The debate with weak tangential non issues.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Seriously? You think the discussion here about an email exchange is going to cloud the issue in a court of law? Are you of the position that Steyn’s lawyers are somehow obligated to take this information to court? That they cannot consider for themselves what points to argue and what points not to argue? Do you suppose that Mann would bring this information to court in order to accuse himself with it so that he could rebut it? Exactly how does discussing it here harm Steyn’s interests in any way? If it is a weak issue then it will be exposed as such in the discussion. You pressing for the discussion to be closed on the basis of your personal opinion is frankly, absurd.

Steve in Seattle
May 12, 2014 11:27 pm

Thank You Aphan ! !
Yes, the two different data sets were clearly shown in two different colors. The problem is that by overlaying them in a point where they “match up”, and then continuing on with only ONE of the sets, it automatically leads the viewer to assume that the FIRST data set either ENDED at that moment, OR that it continued to match the second data after that, so that essentially, the SECOND set “picks up where the last one left off”. Using the word “updated” in the caption to the original chart is also meant to lead the viewer to conclude that the second data set is just a newer, better, reflection of the first set.
If the first data had continued on, it would not have shown a hockeystick. The second data set didn’t go back far enough to be reliable. It was a match made in heaven ONLY for someone with an agenda, and the fact that they “matched” for only a split second in scientific time, was all they needed to shove this chart, this newborn “climate scientist”, and the AGW theory to the forefront of the climate debate.

You have most concisely summarized this entire thread. All the gnashing and hubris does not matter. And yes, the core of folks that would do such are true divine believers in the religion of the church of CO2 caused global warming. The will NEVERadmit to being / doing wrong. They will die with their agenda. Why, Oh Why do we continue to bring knives to their gunfight ?

Steve in Seattle
May 12, 2014 11:39 pm

My typo : They will NEVER admit to being / doing wrong.

Bob_FJ
May 13, 2014 12:10 am

Steve and Anthony,
There are several other issues in the final decades of MBH 98/99, which I think are arguably just as serious, for instance Steve has commented concerning the “Swindlesque S-curve” that he was unable to reverse engineer it. The problem is that with the original 40-year smoothing, come 1978 onwards, an additional non-existent 20 years of data into the future was required. I recall that at one stage Jan Esper concluded that his dendro community methodology to fill-in the “missing” data at the time, 2002 (?) was naughty. (paraphrasing…. But he then went quiet on it). However, he and all continued the same way but mostly reduced the smoothing interval to 30-years, and thus a lesser version of the same problem.
There is a wonderful demonstration of a mea culpa on this by the UK Met Office and their strange 21-year weighted smoothing method. When they found that their original imaginary data fill-in approach didn’t give the desired approach they changed it:
http://hadobs.metoffice.com/hadcrut3/smoothing.html
Figure’s 2 & 3 are most relevant
Bob Fernley-Jones

May 13, 2014 12:40 am

Friends:
I have withdrawn from this thread and I interpose with this post to clarify what I wrote and what I did not write.
At least one person has understood what I originally said in 1998, said in the quoted email from year 2000, and have been saying in this thread. It is clearly stated by ‘Crispin in Waterloo but really in Yogyakarta’ at May 12, 2014 at 6:56 pm here.
Please note that there is no mention of Briffa’s work and no mention of the ‘divergence problem’. Assertions that I was discussing those are silly because those issues had not yet been published in year 2000, and the discussed email was in year 2000. However, I did raise the issue of ‘apples and oranges’ because it suggested that there would be a ‘divergence problem’ (which later proved to be the case).
As ‘Crispin in Waterloo but really in Yogyakarta’ says

So the older thermometer data was truncated until the overlap occurred.
The tree ring proxy was truncated until the divergence occurred.
They were plotted as a single data set, according to the link above to the paper.
That is a splice. Clearly and unequivocally. It isn’t even tree ring temp proxies and temps, it is sifted garbage and temps. I could get the same ring-result by measuring sets of hot dog remnants at the Waterloo dumpsite if I was allowed to choose which summer weekends to include.

My complaint in 1998 and repeated in 2000 in the email to Keller was precisely that; i.e.
the method of MBH98 could be applied to anything (including “hot dog remnants”) and the result would be equally valid as a method to discern past temperatures. And Mann’s assertion that the method

doesn’t include any “splicing of two different datasets”

was a blatant falsehood.
Richard