So, as WUWT readers well know, I have a different opinion about global warming.
Do you think the New York Times should endorse stabbing me (and others with similar opinions) through the heart like a vampire because I hold that opinion? See panel #4 “self destructing sabers for dispatching climate-change deniers”.
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2014/02/09/opinion/sunday/see-something-say.html?_r=2
Admittedly, this is a lame attempt at humor/satire, something we are all well familiar with applying here at WUWT. But, imagine if the tables were turned, and the cartoon depicted global warming alarmists such as Mike Mann or James Hansen in the same role? Our friends would have a collective cow. Yet, somehow, somebody at the New York Times thinks it is acceptable to suggest “dispatching” a whole class of people that hold a different viewpoint from them.
I’m waiting on I have a comment from NYT’s Andrew Revkin, who was the subject of a post yesterday, as to what he thinks about this in his own newspaper.
For the record, I don’t think global warming is a “hoax”, but it certainly has been oversold.
h/t to Steve Milloy at Junkscience.com
UPDATE: Andrew Revkin sends this comment via email:
I find the final panel in this cartoon on uses for surplus icicles to be the antithesis of humor. But some artists, like some bloggers, seem to thrive on edge pushing. Andres Serrano (“Immersion: Piss Cross”) comes to mind. There are many others. We are quite a species.
UPDATE2: Revkin has added some additional thoughts at his tumblr blog:
It’s worth saying more. This cartoon is right up there with the “pretty edgy” 2010 climate-campaign video showing a teacher blowing up students who didn’t sign on to cut their carbon footprints.
Both are great attention getters, and were utterly stupid if the goal was do accomplish anything other than inflaming and dividing people on an important issue. And that would be a reprehensible goal.
Chuck Nolan:
At February 24, 2014 at 5:06 am you assert
No, politics and the Rule Of Law are methods to protect use from terrorists.
In the absence of effective political and legal systems we are all at the mercy of whichever local gang leader is most powerful.
The remainder of your post is wrong because it is based on your misunderstanding which I have here refuted.
Richard
Politics and the Rule Of Law are non-terroristic if and only if they require the unanimous consent of the governed. If this is not the case, then we have no effective political and legal systems we only have elected gangs that will pillage and plunder as they see fit. They can do so because they can always claim the majority wanted them to do so.
The concept of someone “winning” an election where 57% of the voters remained at home – meaning that in the best case the “Winner” had only 21.500001% of the voters behind them flies in the face of all meanings of Rule Of Law. Coercing people to vote is not a valid option, it indicates simply another form of totalitarian state.
wsbriggs:
For clarity, I write to say I agree with your post at February 24, 2014 at 5:59 am.
Please note that I said,
In the absence of effective political and legal systems we are all at the mercy of whichever local gang leader is most powerful.
This is why pure democracy is not desirable.
Pure democracy inevitably results in mob rule.
The word “effective” is important because effective political and legal systems protect minorities from majorities. The leader of the largest majority is the most powerful gang leader in a pure democracy. Effective political and legal systems protect minorities.
And we all need to remember that few people are not in some minority of some kind.
Richard
Chuck Nolan says:
February 23, 2014 at 7:36 pm
It’d been funnier if someone had icicles held in each ear and the caption reading, “You can hold them in your ears so you don’t have to hear a denier say I told you so.”
That would have been funny and a lot less hate filled.
They really do hate, don’t they?
cn
Very funny.
Maybe better would be a cartoon of, say, Michael Mann with icicles in his ears being shown a chart of the “pause” saying, “I cant hear you, I have icicles in my ears!”
HankHenry says:
February 24, 2014 at 3:46 am
“Revkin regularly highlights the so called humor of cartoonist Marc Roberts at his blog. I don’t get it.”
I see a systematic. It seems that for NYT/Revkin, a cartoon passes as funny if somebody dies AND the cartoon has some connection to the Global Warming hoax. That’s quite insane but that’s the only pattern I see.
There we have it; the declaration of an idealist. Please, Richard, get out more … run, jog, go camping, find a hobby …
The Climate Jihadists are on the loose and inspired by their mullahs in the WH. Reason and science debate is not part of their plan.
richardscourtney says:
February 24, 2014 at 2:32 am
ferdberple:
I am copying your wise post at February 23, 2014 at 9:16 pm to ensure that any who missed it get another chance to read it.
You rightly say
The most dangerous person on the planet is one that is convinced they are right, and are acting in the name of a noble cause. there is no crime they will not commit in the name of their cause.
Richard
Ah, “right is might”,
even when it is wrong.
I suppose though that “we” (the collective folks who post at WUWT) could never agree on which “noble cause” it would be acceptable to commit some crime. Too deep a philosophical discussion I suspect.
Nonetheless, generally speaking, I agree with the above sentiment.
richardscourtney says:
February 24, 2014 at 5:14 am
Chuck Nolan:
At February 24, 2014 at 5:06 am you assert
Politics is but a choice between terrorists.
No, politics and the Rule Of Law are methods to protect use from terrorists.
In the absence of effective political and legal systems we are all at the mercy of whichever local gang leader is most powerful.
The remainder of your post is wrong because it is based on your misunderstanding which I have here refuted.
Richard
——————————————————————————
Oh, you mean an effective political and legal system like Obama and Holder.
BS
Harry Reid is a terrorist.
Al Gore is a terrorist.
Michael Mann is a terrorist.
Ted Cruz is a terrorist.
Terrorist = a person who uses lies and fear to terrorize or frighten others.
Politics, as practiced is terrorism plain and simple.
What’s your point?
cn
It’s okay, NYT is MSM – they get a free pass.
Dear Mr. Richard M.Courtney,
Calling someone a liar is over the top. You are obviously not a gentleman, but I will point to the following post from which I quoted so everyone here can see your error. Again I will lend you some help.
PAUL WESTHAVER QUOTE (from 9:31 a.m.):
Paul Westhaver says:
February 23, 2014 at 9:31 am
Anthony,
I am sure you are well aware now that your pantomimed death is not an aspiration from the greenies alone.
I maintain that the culture of death, largely overlaps with the green movement and as such influences the green movement at an operational level. The culture of death comes from left political wing.
The green death culture, the socialists, have no qualms about lying to achieve a political and social end nor do the have any qualms about killing to achieve their goals.
Look at history, the socialists are responsible for the death of 262,000,000 people in the last 110 years. See: Death by government::
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
This cartoon should be taken very seriously by Anthony et al because this web site (WUWT) is not just about asserting true science and wonder, it is a major thorn in the side and obstacle to very evil forces that mean to have their way, come what may, even it that involves killing Mr Watts.
If you wait long enough, evil murder-oriented leftists will always show their true natures. This cartoon is just an example of what is really on the mind of the left. If they could get away with it, they would kill us all. It has happened in the past and it is happening now and it will happen again. It always starts from a socialist government and their supporters asserting some phony leftist ideal. This time it is Earth God. It always ends with mass-murder. Cambodia,, China, Germany, Ukraine etc… 262,000,000 dead at the hands of the socialist left.
Today Anthony is a cartoon vampire in the New Your Times. Tomorrow he is an obituary.
END QUOTE
Now Mr. Courtney, here is your reaction, which by the way is similar to how you treat others with your elitist condemnations.
YOUR QUOTE:
You lied. You have not withdrawn the lie. Withdraw the lie and apologise
Richard
END QUOTE
Mr. Richard M. Courtney and defenders: I do not apologize. Do everyone here a favor and end the egotistical preoccupation with yourself. Exploitation and superiority are not attractive personality traits.
I think we’re selling that Dept. of Commerce cartoon short. When you consider the source, it’s remarkably funny, especially the panel showing an dog owner using icycles as a training tool. “Whither my found object?” the dog asks, after a fruitless game of go-fetch. Even the panel showing the icycle-wielding stabber has that amusing allusion to “Cash for Clunkers.”
That the Commerce Department, of all agencies, would want to get involved in this matter at all baffles me. The manner in which it was done is even more baffling, but funner than you think, if you look beyond the gratuitous denier-death-fantasy.
Ice crystal nacht
highflight56433:
At February 24, 2014 at 7:23 am you say to me
NO!
Calling a liar a liar is being restrained. Liars like you don’t know how to be gentlemanly.
You are an anonymous liar who yet again lies in the post I am answering.
YOU posted the lie in this thread, and you did it by quoting the words of another.
Withdraw the lie and apologise.
Richard
Chuck Nolan:
You had asserted
And I replied
In response to that at February 24, 2014 at 7:13 am you say and ask me
Terror is a state of severe fear. A terrorist is not merely a person who lies to frighten others. A terrorist is a person who acts to terrorise people.
If you think those you name are terrorists then be grateful you have never been exposed to real terrorism.
And your assertion that “Politics, as practiced is terrorism plain and simple” is insane.
Your views are as divorced from reality as those of _Jim.
And my point is that we need politics and the Rule Of Law as methods to protect us from terrorists because there are naïve fools like you who are so divorced from reality that something is needed to protect you.
Richard
Look at history, the socialists are responsible for the death of 262,000,000 people in the last 110 years. See: Death by government::
http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/NOTE1.HTM
1. 169,202,000 Murdered: Summary and Conclusions [20th Century Democide]
I BACKGROUND
2. The New Concept of Democide [Definition of Democide]
3. Over 133,147,000 Murdered: Pre-Twentieth Century Democide
II 128,168,000 VICTIMS: THE DEKA-MEGAMURDERERS
4. 61,911,000 Murdered: The Soviet Gulag State
5. 35,236,000 Murdered: The Communist Chinese Ant Hill
6. 20,946,000 Murdered: The Nazi Genocide State
7. 10,214,000 Murdered: The Depraved Nationalist Regime
III 19,178,000 VICTIMS: THE LESSER MEGA-MURDERERS
8. 5,964,000 Murdered: Japan’s Savage Military
9. 2,035,000 Murdered: The Khmer Rouge Hell State
10. 1,883,000 Murdered: Turkey’s Genocidal Purges
11. 1,670,000 Murdered: The Vietnamese War State
12. 1,585,000 Murdered: Poland’s Ethnic Cleansing
13. 1,503,000 Murdered: The Pakistani Cutthroat State
14. 1,072,000 Murdered: Tito’s Slaughterhouse
IV 4,145,000 VICTIMS: SUSPECTED MEGAMURDERERS
15. 1,663,000 Murdered? Orwellian North Korea
16. 1,417,000 Murdered? Barbarous Mexico
17. 1,066,000 Murdered? Feudal Russia
Steve B @ur momisugly: February 23, 2014 at 10:06 pm
&
richardscourtney @ur momisugly February 24, 2014 at 2:16 am
I admit that I was sloppy when writing just “Socialism“, but that was not my point and obviously you both missed it (intentionally as leftist’s often do?) … I could have mentioned a lot of other types of socialisms, but I chose not to. My point was the actual link between Socialism and National Socialism. “Socialism” is much older then you both mentioned and not invented by man. Generally, it was practiced in nature with genuine success long before man.
Steve B.; “Adolph was not against capitalism and that is why he is seen as right wing the same with Muss.
– That doesn’t change their political base! Everything isn’t black and white. National Socialism still focus on the hole society, with certain limitations, just like Socialism and Communism indeed did (do) in practice! (Ever heard of Gulag and simular …?) Soviet, China and other similar collapsed regimes performed a limited version of capitalism, available exclusively for the political elite. The public realized the injustice (corruption) and this as one of several reasons, it all fell apart respectively. Socialistic systems of any kind don’t work when greed of any type are involved. Here in Sweden we have many good examples of Socialists who are strong friends of Capitalism (greed), including one of our former Prime Ministers,Göran Persson, back then also leader of the Swedish Labour Party. Also former Minister of Education and direct responsible for the low-quality school system of today that exist here, with non qualified teachers in many classrooms. (That’s one strong reason why many young people/media here believes in (C)AGW …). His association with high finance and sucking up for people like George W. Bush (together with Tony Blair) places him in right-wing politics, although he always expressed the opposite to the voters and still do. Does he belong to left or right wing politics then?
We have more direct links in Sweden between Socialism and National Socialism; The State Institute for Racial Biology (SIFR) was started in Uppsala in 1922 on behalf of the Swedish Riksdag (the supreme decision-making body in the Kingdom of Sweden), on a proposal of several socialists including Hjalmar Branting (1st socialistic PM in Sweden, 1920). The activities of this institution directly led to the policy of “racial hygiene” practiced later by the National Socialists in Germany … Involved in the operations was Svante Arrhenius, a renowned physicist and chemist (Nobel Prize in Chemistry, 1903), sometime mentioned by people who advocate AGW … During WWII, we had 14 (sic) detention camps, similar to how Guantanamo Bay Camp operates, where political and religious deviants were placed without legal review (Jews included). Some of them was finally deported to Germany … One of the main responsible for this activity was a socialist, Tage Erlander, that later become a PM. During WWII, the Swedish government was not only “in bed” with the “Third Reich“, but at the same time the Socialist Party had direct contact with the government in Soviet, despite the (still valid) expressed prohibition under our Constitution for parties to establish direct relations with foreign states. (Two of the above mentioned Swedish socialistic politicians, H. Branting and T. Erlander, are titled as “Fathers of the Nation” due to their commitment …) So socialists swing wide …
Benito M. was during a period resident in Switzerland (1902-1904) in order to avoid military service (sic) and was finally deported due to having spread revolutionary socialist propaganda (that’s not right-wing stuff …). Regarding Adolf H. & Co., the essence of the National Socialist phrase “Arbeit macht frei” is also available in most left-isms, incl. Socialism, Marxism and Communism, though not explicitly expressed in words, but well in action (again, ever heard of Gulag and others …?)
You both (and others) just have to deal with Adolf H. & Benito M. was left wing politicians in practice …
re: highflight56433 says @ur momisugly 9:22 am
Did you happen to see the closing ceremony @ur momisugly Sochi?
There was a large segment devoted to famous Russian writers where they had panels pop up from under the stage with portraits of these guys. The CBS announcers didn’t call out their names because there were so many. Too many to mention by name.
Here’s the kicker. The plethora of Russian writers being celebrated all had the distiction of being imprisoned and/or murdered by the state. Presumably by the Soviet State, but I guess some few by the Czarist state also.
Sochi’s closed with a dance number celebrating the lives of truth telling dissidents murdered by the soviet state.
Puts an exclamation point on your post.
I find Richard’s defense of socialist state murder disturbing. I’m not alone judging by other commenters.
Isn’t that enough to stick someone in the permanent moderation que? Wasn’t that the criteria used against me?
I’ve been an off and on commenter at WUWT since the time it was just a daily ticking off of substandard surface station siting problems.
Generally I ignore Richard. He seemed to me a bore much too in love with the sound of his own voice.
Now I’m in moderation due to the complaint of a socialism defending heckler.
That’s what they do. That’s who they are.
Mmmhg, I hope they come at night.
SasjaL:
Your post at February 24, 2014 at 9:42 am is disingenuous bollocks.
H1tler and Mussol1ni were ultra-right totalitarians. Your verbosity does niot change that reality.
Richard
highflight56433:
I see that at February 24, 2014 at 9:22 am you have again posted your despicable lies as a method to promote unjustifiable hatred.
Please say, is there any contemptible act which you would not do?
Richard
Neither Hitler nor Mussolini were totalitarians, serious analysis of the two regimes shows that clearly. They were both corporate statist regimes with the private sector left alone mostly. Thus Germany was not on war footing even after Pearl harbor, not until 1942. In 1939 German sub factories closed at 5 pm. Mussolini the same thing. He even articulated thisdistinction. Those regimes not so different from our present one, totally in the grip of the money powers as Lincoln called them.
I should have said neither ran totalitarian states. Hitler of course wanted to be dicatator but did not control every aspect of life in Germany, far from it.
Wow, what a discussion. I have to say that I really admire richardscourtney for putting up with so many wild statements and still trying to politely explain why & where they are wrong. You are really encouraging, richard, (as are lots aof other people here on wuwt)!
@ur momisugly highflight56433: It makes absolutely no sense to cram all the horrors of the world together and then declare them to have been caused by whichever political idea you hate the most. The result is useless.
The “theory” of totalitarism makes only very limited sense at best. Stalinism is not the same as Hitler Fascism. The differences were important for those who had to live and attempt to survive those horrible times. Sovjet communism after Stalin was something different again, and differed from Maoism. As in climate science: It is absolutely necessary to take note of the details, find the differences and avoid by all means false analogies, correlations and simplified “explanations”. There is usually much “more to the picture than meets the eye” (Neil Young). If we want to understand things – rather than just describing them briefly and very rough – then we have to look for all those details which don´t meet the eye.
Nazi Fascism was a totally racist ideology. The Nazi idea of paradise is a society where only the “master race” would rule, others had to labor, be slaves or killed.
Sovjet Communism is an ideology based on social classes. The communist idea of paradise is a society where all people would be free and equal – all classes or other hierarchical social structures would be overcome. Whether this ultimate goal is realistic, ever achievable or not – it is definitely not the same as the Nazis dream – it is the opposite.
Sorry if I did digress from the topic (NYT cartoon) to a certain degree. But superficial equalizations (Fascist=Nazi=commi=socialist=liberal=left) just don´t go down well with me.