So, as WUWT readers well know, I have a different opinion about global warming.
Do you think the New York Times should endorse stabbing me (and others with similar opinions) through the heart like a vampire because I hold that opinion? See panel #4 “self destructing sabers for dispatching climate-change deniers”.
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2014/02/09/opinion/sunday/see-something-say.html?_r=2
Admittedly, this is a lame attempt at humor/satire, something we are all well familiar with applying here at WUWT. But, imagine if the tables were turned, and the cartoon depicted global warming alarmists such as Mike Mann or James Hansen in the same role? Our friends would have a collective cow. Yet, somehow, somebody at the New York Times thinks it is acceptable to suggest “dispatching” a whole class of people that hold a different viewpoint from them.
I’m waiting on I have a comment from NYT’s Andrew Revkin, who was the subject of a post yesterday, as to what he thinks about this in his own newspaper.
For the record, I don’t think global warming is a “hoax”, but it certainly has been oversold.
h/t to Steve Milloy at Junkscience.com
UPDATE: Andrew Revkin sends this comment via email:
I find the final panel in this cartoon on uses for surplus icicles to be the antithesis of humor. But some artists, like some bloggers, seem to thrive on edge pushing. Andres Serrano (“Immersion: Piss Cross”) comes to mind. There are many others. We are quite a species.
UPDATE2: Revkin has added some additional thoughts at his tumblr blog:
It’s worth saying more. This cartoon is right up there with the “pretty edgy” 2010 climate-campaign video showing a teacher blowing up students who didn’t sign on to cut their carbon footprints.
Both are great attention getters, and were utterly stupid if the goal was do accomplish anything other than inflaming and dividing people on an important issue. And that would be a reprehensible goal.
Paul Westhaver says: February 23, 2014 at 9:31 am
highflight56433 says: February 23, 2014 at 12:33 pm
While I’m not certain of the economic/political flavors of Mexico, Turkey, and some minor players, the huge preponderance of megadeaths do fall in the socialist camp. But that’s understandable, as ordinary people tend to act in their own self-interest, rather than take into account the interest of the socialist state in keeping them compliant.
I think your numbers on the Soviet megadeaths is out of date, though. With the fall of the Soviet Union and the release of the Mitrokhin Archives (ISBN 0-14-028487-7) in the late 90’s, the CIA raised the number from an estimated 70 million to a confirmed 110+ million.
The National Socialist number might be a few million overstated, unless you add in the Japanese, as they might properly fit into the fascist camp, government working hand in hand with the big industrialists much as happened in Germany with the rise of the NSDAP.
Mainland China has slacked off on the megadeaths since the demise of Mao, but should properly take credit for the continuing atrocities in North Korea, as that blight would no longer exist without the material support and active protection of China.
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I, too, take the cartoon as a jab at the warmists.
Mike
Chad Wozniak says:
February 23, 2014 at 5:36 pm
Of course, they both are collectivist (and statist) governments (really, socio-economic policy) which necessarily makes them the same form of government as socialism. Too many do not understand how small the distinction is (specifics of implementation, not kind, nor degree) and bandy the various words about thinking they all mean something vastly different. Really, they don’t. It is unfortunate because these collectivists have convinced the world that communist Russia fell because of communism, and what they are now advocating is somehow different enough that it can work. The Union of Soviet Socialist Republics… sigh.
Either way, highflight’s post was nothing to do with anything richardscourtney has gone off the deep end about. Indeed, he has made himself look a fool trying to desperately to protect the ideology he holds so dear, while highflight merely sits back and points out the folly of his rants. I can imagine this beet-red faced individual screaming at a monitor… for no reason at all, really. Chill, dude. He’s not stepping on puppies outside your window.
Anyway, I find Revkin’s responses disappointing, though not unexpected. Every post he makes is about inflaming and dividing opinion. He regularly does exactly what his high and mightiness now seems to think is reprehensible – he cares not one whit about those that disagree with him, and his language regarding them reflects exactly that. I am unconvinced by his faux (apparently new-found) morality.
Mark
Oh, it is worth pointing out that the link does not even directly contain the word “socialist.” Just sayin…
Mark
The illiteracy of these people is showing.
The word is “Sabre” not “Saber”.
u.k.(us) says:
February 23, 2014 at 6:44 pm
Labels. Give an engineer a label maker and everyone will have proper labels by the end of the year.
Mark
Mike McMillan;
the huge preponderance of megadeaths do fall in the socialist camp.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I don’t want to extend this unproductive debate further, but think it is worth calling out that comment. I grew up during the cold war, and there was nothing I could see about the Soviet Union that was remotely socialist. From Stalin forward, it was a military dictatorship that called itself communist. It purported to exist for the good of the masses, but in reality it was a dictatorship in which a few elite figures and pampered athletes lead lives of luxury and everyone else were peasants. Similarly, Iran claims to be a democracy, and holds regular elections to maintain that facade. No reasonably informed person would identify it as anything but a theocracy.
I could go on for a very long time on points such as this. Do not confuse socialism with totalitarian regimes that bent it to their will in order to achieve power. Just as CAGW advocates bend that meme to their will form both sides of the spectrum. They are the enemy, regardless of the political cloak they wear, and we would be complete fools to lose the fight against them while we bicker among ourselves.
Since we skeptics are in such a small (100-97 = 3%) minority, surely we deserve special protected status just like other “minorities”?
I’ve got one for Gail (from whom we have not heard from lately); you know those “Social Solutions International” ppl contracted by the FCC to do a ‘survey’ on how the population is served by ‘media’ (all media, by the looks of it), and in particular, how certain parts of the population might just be “under-served” by media? We find the ‘roots’ from where may have sprung:
Above from here.
And a Google search for federally-related contracts awarded to SSI.
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It’d been funnier if someone had icicles held in each ear and the caption reading, “You can hold them in your ears so you don’t have to hear a denier say I told you so.”
That would have been funny and a lot less hate filled.
They really do hate, don’t they?
cn
New York Times needs to go the way of the dinosaurs.
Mike McMillan,
Part of required training of the exterminators when a group of people are to be exterminated is to make the exterminate-es something less than human. This is done all the time.
The socialists who want to implement their wealth redistribution scheme called Global Warming, have now to get the obstacles out of the way of implementation. So what are the obstacles?
1) The facts. I don’t have to describe the poverty of facts in support of AGW, you all know them better than I do.
2) People who report the facts. That is you Anthony. You and your linked array of skeptics.
3) Money. Money is always needed and not having it is an obstacle. Enough said.
4) Non-compliant media. The media is generally compliant but there is some that don’t tow the line.
There may be others.
How do you get rid of those pesky people?
According to the cartoon, we have some insight how far these wealth redistributing AGW liars will go to remove their obstacles… Just as is done when grooming the exterminators to see the victims as worthless beasts, parasites, or subhumans. Once this is in common parlance, who possibly could offer an objection to marginalizing these subhumans?
The cartoon is not funny. It is a disturbing reflection of a stated practical necessity to get rid of people who are in the way of the “common welfare”, the socialist agenda.
davidmhoffer,
All socialist states end up as totalitarian, c/w phony elections and judges and state-run religions.
If you want to make the case that it is the totalitarianism that is the problem, ok fine but that is always what socialism brings. Socialism never works so people become desperate and yield their personal freedoms and their institutional freedoms to the phony elite who become corrupt.
I say there is a fundamental flaw in the notion that people collectively have rights and collectively enjoy the collective benefits of the jointly held rights. It was a bad experiment that failed and killed millions. something around 262,000,000 souls. All the totalitarians of the last 110 years started off as socialists, were put in power by socialists, named themselves socialists, and murdered millions in the name of socialism.
Now in order to advance the wealth redistribution scheme of AGW, we must act “in the collective interest of all”. That means against the interests of individuals. In the case of the cartoon, against the interests of people like me, Anthony, Roy, Monckton etc.
AGW is a major tenant of the Earth God religion of the socialists.
It is the single constant motivating attribute of nearly every single Global Warming demagogue.
Kill AGW the whole green movement collapses into simple planet husbandry and with it the trumped up snot-nosed moral superiority of those who put the earth above mankind.
This issue IS the big enchilada. There really isn’t any other.
The first time I read the term Climate Parasite was on Dr. Roy Spencer’s site and was recommended as a substitute to his “Climate Nazi” term. NAZI resonates with early boomers but says nothing to the rest of todays generations. Global Warming is the term understood by everyone above 12. I would like to think that this subject could be discussed without name calling but our society has changed and everyone seems to described by their belief system. After all, Climate Parasitism is a religion!
Paul Westhaver;
I say there is a fundamental flaw in the notion that people collectively have rights and collectively enjoy the collective benefits of the jointly held rights.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..
Yeah, that whole “of the people, by the people, for the people” thing that democracies are founded upon should just go in the garbage.
110 years of exclusively socialist dictatorships? You are a victim of confirmation bias, the facts are otherwise. Egypt is currently a dictatorship, previously a democracy. Iran is a dictatorship (theocracy) formerly a monarchist dictatorship. Turkey is a democracy edging toward a theocracy. Russia was briefly a democracy and is now for all intents and purposes, a dictatorship. Again, I could go on for a very long time. You’re seeing the facts that fit your world view and just pretending (to yourself I am guessing) that facts to the contrary don’t exist.
You are committing the same sin that warmist scientists make. I can see why Richard doesn’t want to bother with you anymore.
Gentlemen and Lady, let us not forget what this war is all about: carbon dioxide is not the root cause of the observed global warming from 1980 to 1997.This thread got too warm against each other (pun intended). We need to direct our energies to defeating those such as Little Mikey Mann and his ilk. We need to pull together and develop a strategy to win the war. That strategy should include facts and more facts. Eventually, truth will out.
Revkin has added some additional thoughts at his tumblr blog:
“Both are great attention getters, and were utterly stupid if the goal was do accomplish anything other than inflaming and dividing people on an important issue. And that would be a reprehensible goal.”
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Revkin has no problem labeling others as “climate-change deniers”. Which both inflames and divides, more than any other issue regarding climate change. By his own words his actions are reprehensible.
Revkin, clean up your own act. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BbGvS9EXtw
Feeble attempts at humour is still not a crime where I live. Leave them to it and give it the attention is deserves. None
re: davidmhoffer says February 23, 2014 at 8:37 pm
Egypt is currently a dictatorship, previously a democracy
One is forced to ask: Under Morsi? Only if one led a cloistered existence, completely unawares of what took place during that short time ‘democracy reined’ after Mubarak.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Presidents_of_Egypt
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That was just plain embarrassing. Unfunny and badly drawn. Best ignored as being the product of someone with a small imagination and no way of expressing it coherently.
davidmhoffer says:
February 23, 2014 at 7:20 pm
Do not confuse socialism with totalitarian regimes that bent it to their will in order to achieve power.
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Agreed. Paul you are pissing into the wind. There are plenty of socialist regimes that have done good and plenty of capitalist regimes that have done bad.
What sets truly evil governments apart from the rest is the notion that they are above error. This is the evil in climate science. The notion that the science is settled, that there is no possibility of error.
No other branch of science makes any such claim. Mathematics, which is arguably the best developed of all the sciences, recognizes that what we know is small in comparison to what we don’t know. How then can any science that uses mathematics claim certainty?
It is the certainty of Climate Science, that it is above question that created the danger. It is the “divine right” of Popes, dressed up in scientific language. From this grew the Inquisition, and one of the greatest evils of history. The evil continue to this day, a wall of silence surrounding sexual abuse, wrapped in Priest clothing.
So now in place of the Inquisition we have Climate Science. Un-believers are replaced by Deniers. We still torture and abuse; now the victims are data and truth. All is acceptable in the name of saving the planet. To save their souls we had to kill their bodies.
_Jim;
One is forced to ask: Under Morsi? Only if one led a cloistered existence, completely unawares of what took place during that short time ‘democracy reined’ after Mubarak.
Which underscores my point.
The most dangerous person on the planet is one that is convinced they are right, and are acting in the name of a noble cause. there is no crime they will not commit in the name of their cause.
Mark T says:
February 23, 2014 at 7:10 pm
I find Revkin’s responses disappointing, though not unexpected. Every post he makes is about inflaming and dividing opinion. He regularly does exactly what his high and mightiness now seems to think is reprehensible – he cares not one whit about those that disagree with him, and his language regarding them reflects exactly that.
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Agreed. In a long post, this deserved to be your lead.
Mark T says:
February 23, 2014 at 7:16 pm
Labels. Give an engineer a label maker and everyone will have proper labels by the end of the year.
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Given an engineer a label maker and you will find the label maker is soon labelled as a “label maker”.