…commenter Brad Keyes at The Conversation defends the use of the “Ursus bogus” image with this astonishing statement:
“The problem is, only sensational exaggeration makes the kind of story that will get politicians’—and readers’—attention. So, yes, climate scientists might exaggerate, but in today’s world, this is the only way to assure any political action and thus more federal financing to reduce the scientific uncertainty.”
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Gail, I understand your anger, sympathze with it, and feel it myself. But I’ve now published three peer-reviewed papers extremely critical of AGW so-called science, have two more under active review, and am planning two more after that.
I also presented a *very critical* poster on climate models at the Fall meeting of the AGU in San Francisco, last December.
As you know, I’ve also had several long analytical posts here on WUWT and several more on Jeffid’s tAV, all of them also extremely critical of AGW so-called science.
All of that has been done on my own time and at my own expense (about 3000 $ by now). So don’t talk about wiping anything on me.
During my work on the air temperature record, I read about Kenneth Hubbard and Xiaomao Lin, University of Nebraska, who work on the accuracy of air temperature sensors, joining forces with Roger Pielke Sr., trying to convey to Congress how chancy is the air temperature record. They got nowhere.
I can’t say why people like Michael Mann, Kevin Trenberth, Tom Karl (NCDC), Ralph Cicerone (NAS), and others have subverted science. I certainly don’t understand how they’ve managed to sweep the officers of the APS and others so easily before them.
But don’t you go tarring all of academic scientists by saying no one has spoken up. They have done. They’ve testified before Congress. They’ve pubished papers. They’ve had their characters smeared. Want first-hand testimony? Contact Willie Soon or Sallie Baliunas. Witness what happened to Frederick Seitz when he spoke out about Ben Santer’s lies in the 2AR. He was viciously attacked and nothing came of his protest.
I’ll repeat my point: if you folks wreck academic science just to get even with these intellectual thugs, you’ll be punishing the innocent, sowing ignorance, and greasing the skids for exactly the luddite politics-of-emotion society you all want to avoid.
[Thank you for your work. Mod]
===============================================================
Yes. That’s where the empathy comes in. Some can take a stand and weather the storm. Some know they couldn’t weather it so don’t stand. I can have empathy for them. But what is right and wrong is still what is right and wrong.
(“They” can be wise in how they take their stand. We owe much to “Mr. FOIA” but few, if any, know who he or she is.)
========================================================================
We need a rifle, not a shotgun. (For those of you who hate guns, feel free to substitute “scalpel” and “sledgehammer”.)
What is wrong is when research is funded to come to or support a predetermined result determined by the funder. Real life doesn’t profit from wrong results. But politics can.
That’s what “Gail et al.” (and me, and I suspect you) are riled about.)
Janice Moore said:
January 21, 2014 at 7:13 pm
@ur momisugly Mark (and cats) — You’re welcome. Grrrr (with a smile), you don’t know dogs very well, I think. ALL dogs are 100% devoted to the TRRRRRRRUUUUTH (that’s how my German Shepherd says it, lol).
——————————
I guess that the knowledge of Kenji’s membership in a warmunist organisation temporarily influenced my judgement and led me to disparage the doggies.
My apologies to you Janice and to your pup 🙂
Mod thanks Pat Frank for his work. The Git raises a glass to you both — and not just because it’s beer o’clock 🙂
Oh, dear Pompous Git,
When I read “{Regarding} the farm. We shall be putting it up for sale,” my heart sank. My dad and his siblings are doing that right now. It hasn’t been a working farm for a long time, but, “the farm” (still call it that) has been in the family for 4 generations. That you are not leaving entirely by your own choice, that circumstances are forcing you to leave must break your heart. No matter what country they are from: farmers love their land. That your hands have been working that land right up until the end is going to make that last drive out the driveway so hard. I am dreading that day and I’m not even a farmer.
As you wisely say, though, a new chapter with new joys lies ahead of you. We at WUWT will certainly benefit — you’ll have more time to post!
Weeping with you and your wife,
Janice
@ur momisugly Janice Moore
Weep not dear lady. I am leaving in time to establish a brand new garden and thoroughly document it for another book. I am actually more relieved than saddened. Truth is, we move not very far and remain close to our friends. What has saddened me is seeing parts of the farm fall into neglect, though this is the most difficult season since 1983 and not just the arthritis to blame.
We recently celebrated the passing of my friend Tony Moore, though celebrated is possibly the wrong word here. As per Tony’s request, the final piece of music was “Always Look on the Bright Side of Life” and his wife and daughter commenced dancing to that jolly tune. Some attempted to stop them dancing. I suspect that some people seek misery, rather than joy.
Live long and prosper.
As the poster of the “astonishing statement,” I have been distressed, disturbed and demoralised by a tattoo of remarkably closely-synchronised assaults on my integrity launched from the direction of the flat-earthosphere. Obviously I can’t even begin to put myself in the shoes of a world-leading researcher like Dr Michael Mann, but I now know exactly how he felt in the darkest hour of his own Garden of Gethsemane*: hounded by politicians crowing over every typo, dogged by deniers baying for blood, ratted out by soi-disant “colleagues” and and mobbed by the bleating, myth-parroting mouthpieces of the Murdocracy (or should I say HERDocracy).
I’ve always gone out of my way to display patience and tolerance for folks who voice doubts, misconceptions and incomplete knowledge regarding climate change, even if their questions have been soundly debunked and/or dismissed by scientists, provided (of course) that their difference of opinion is a matter of sincere ignorance; but it seems it was naive of me to hope for your folks’ respect in return!
To those who have described my comment as “plagiarism” (a mastertrope of dog-whistling, ad hominem and Islamophobia obviously intended to liken me to Edward Wegman’s “foreign,” “non-American,” “A-rab!!!” grad student):
Paranoid much? Think “Skeptically” for a second. If I were stealing statements from climate scientists then how, pray tell, could I have obtained sentences like:
“THEY are not just scientists but human beings as well. And like most people THEY’D like to see the world a better place… So THEY have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts THEY might have.”
Notice how I refer to climate scientists in the 3RD PERSON? Are you seriously suggesting these are Steve Schneider’s expressions? LOL—OK, riiiight. How anybody could be familiar with the Professor’s lectures and writings on the planetary climate crisis without noticing his favoritism towards the 1st person is beyond me. Even for climate-debate standards, that would be tone-deaf.
The passage you thought you recognized was, in fact, a PARAPHRASE of the climate-scientific ethics Schneider expounded so memorably in a wide-ranging Discovery interview.
Sure, it was that article which first opened my mind—and that of a whole generation of non-climate-scientist readers—to these ideas, but I’ve met literally dozens of climate consensualists who’d confirm and agree with Schneider’s principles, so it seems both supererogatory and arbitrary to demand I attribute them to the individual researcher who just happened to articulate them first/ best to a muggle audience.
We’re having a discussion (or Conversation) about the way **climate science** works (and how it differs from the public’s idealized, black-and-white caricature of science as “just the truth, ma’am”)—which didn’t die with the late great Professor Schneider!
This is something around which many misconceptions still exist—let’s raise some awareness. Imagine how much colder the planet would be if so-called Skeptics stopped being so negative and made constructive contributions?
Instead of impugning my entire life’s work (what’s next? rats on the doorstep? a burning cross on my lawn?), you folks could do some CLIMATE COMMUNICATION with the people who read The Conversation—most of whom, in my experience, still labor under the understandable misconception that climate scientists are pure, dispassionate, asexual truth-machines, who have seen the future and describe their observations. There’s still nowhere near enough appreciation (let alone sympathy) out there for the bewildering flowchart of moral dilemmas, compromises and pitfalls scientists began to encounter (starting about 25 years ago) when determining how, what, to whom and what not to communicate.
Yours in defending the science,
Brad
* Speaking of trials, it seems someone upthread has had the audacity to take a soundbite from the Bible completely out of context and imply that it is somehow incompatible with Schneiderian/Mullerian/Kopaczian climate ethics:
“Why not say–as some slanderously claim that we say–”Let us do evil that good may result”? Their condemnation is just!”
Pure disinformation. While technically this is an accurate statement by God (or his Greek interpreter), my critic disingenuously fails to mention that it does NOT come from a climate scientist. In fact Christ and his apostles hadn’t even heard of the work of Arrhenius, so their ethical code, while admirable for the time, was obviously unable to take into account the seriousness of the apocalypse now facing us (if one believes the IPCC’s revelations)—and it is grossly dishonest to insinuate (by omission) that two millennia of advancements and rethinks in ethics, most dramatically in the last two decades, never occurred!
Thanks, Mark, that wasn’t necessary, but, thank you. I’ll be sure to tell Riley (sound asleep right now on “his” (my, actually) bed — that is NOT where he will spend the night, though, no matter HOW well he does his “pitiful lost puppy” look), he wanted to give the computer a nose-thump (German Shepherds do that when they are adamant about anything, e.g., DROP THE BALL!). While cats are not my favorite creatures, you have proven, once again, that cat owners are often extraordinarily sweet people (takes that to put up with… oh, never mind, SMILE).
And please tell your cats from me that they are beautiful and graceful and have the softest fur (that should make them purr). If they ask, “How did she know that?” just tell them, “Well, how could she not?” And that is the truth (given what virtually all cats are like).
Thanks for being so kind. You are a refreshing antidote to the colder, meaner, people one encounters from time to time, here. (Fortunately, they are the in the minority of commenters.)
Janice
Pompous G, I have arthritis as well, diagnosed at 19. If you write to me at pfrank_eight_three_zero_AT_earth_link_dot_net, I’ll send you an essay about how I’ve learned to live pretty much without pain or inflammation.
I didn’t learn it early enough to stop a good deal of the joint damage (fused back & neck), but I’d guess you understand how wonderful a day without pain is. Most – nearly all – of mine are like that now.
Let me congratulate on your excellent sarchasm in your long gospel of religious dogmatism. (That gaping whole between a liberal-socialist and reality.)
@ur momisugly Pat Frank
Thank you for your kind offer; I will take you up on it. In the meantime, I already take glucosamine and am one of the lucky 40% that obtains considerable relief from that. These days it’s supplemented by a slow-release anti-inflammatory that works well without Viox’s side-effects. Bad days I need oxycontin, but fortunately they are few. Mostly I only suffer if I exceed my physical limits. There is some really good info out there on coping with chronic pain and I expect yours will be up there with it 🙂
BTW, you beat me to it by six years 😉
@ur momisugly Brad Keyes
You appear to have a reading/comprehension problem. There have been ever so many comments here that fall well outside your blanket condemnation. We “denialists” are a heterogeneous lot.
@ur momisugly Brad Keyes
Since at least Biblical Times we have been told that we are going to Hell in a Handbasket and you appear to be one of the latest saying such. So far, we do not seem to have suffered that fate, I am mindful of one thing Jeshua the Nazarene said: “The kingdom of heaven is at hand”. I have always taken that to mean it’s here, and now. This world, this existence, is it. The best (only?) of all possible worlds if you will. And I’m enjoying it — to the utmost of my now failing abilities. Letting go gives us freedom, and only freedom brings inner happiness. Holding onto anger prevents any possibility of being free. Your choice…
Dear Pompous,
I’m glad to hear that you are coping with this enormous change so beautifully. That’s great about the garden and the book. I’ll be praying, though, for this move is, no matter how much good you can see in it, going to put a mighty big lump in your throat for awhile.
Thanks for sharing about Tony Moore. Maybe I’m related! I’d like to think I am, what a fine man to leave such a legacy of focusing on the positive. His wife and daughter were paying tribute to his noble spirit by dancing to celebrate such a life. That they could still dance, even with tears streaming down their faces, said, “Tony’s joyful spirit lives on in us.” Beautiful.
A tribute to your wonderfully positive friend, a delightful man, a dear friend, and a loving husband and dad, a song that captures “Tony”:
On the Sunny Side of the Street — Frank Sinatra
Take care,
Janice
@ur momisugly Tony’s beloved:
It’s okay to dance while you’re weeping. Cherish the things he loved; it will keep him close. And later, when the second mourning comes, that is, the realization that the first, bitter, grief that held the memory of him so close to you, is fading away, let it go. Let the bittersweet tie of first grief fall away. Life goes on. And that is good. Live, really live, that is how you will honor Tony.
Dance.
Re: “the kingdom of heaven is at hand,” dear Pompous,… (ahem), just want to be sure you realize that most of us believers in Jeshua as our Messiah (first coming), i.e., as our Savior, read that phrase (given the context of the entire Bible), to mean that the Way into that kingdom, i.e., Jesus, (“I am the way, the truth, and the life, no one comes to the Father but by me.” John 14:6) was about to die and rise from the dead making a way to enter, i.e., to become a member of, that kingdom, by simply believing in Jeshua as savior. The old covenant of works according to the Law (which we could never perfectly do) was about to be replaced by the new covenant, by faith (in Christ) alone. Now, by faith alone we can have eternal life. By mere belief in Jeshua, we are forever citizens of “the kingdom.”
The “at hand,” thus, did not refer to a geographic location, but to the time being near for the new way into that kingdom to be made.
I realize that we disagree about this. I just wanted to be sure that you knew what mainstream teaching is, on this point.
And I sure won’t be talking anymore about it, here. #(:))
(if you want to discuss it, let me know and I’ll click on your Pompous Git link)
Dear Pat,
I’m sorry to read of your arthritis. You have been hiking with boulders in your backpack while the rest of us merrily skip up the trail with only our lunch in ours. You’ve learned to cope, but, I KNOW that isn’t always easy. Hang in there. And, even though we disagree, KEEP ON POSTING.
Take care,
Janice
Janice Moore says: @ur momisugly January 21, 2014 at 7:13 pm
….Taxpayer funding of science is not necessary for the advancement of knowledge. You have not disproven my point by eliminating one of my pieces of evidence for it. People are free to fund universities with their private money to fund basic science — and they DO…..
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And that Janice is the key!
People forget that once the government is involved, you just lost control of the money AND GOVERNMENT BUREAUCRATS TAKE A BIG BITE of that money.
Darn it I thought I closed those block quotes.
Gunga Din says: @ur momisugly January 21, 2014 at 9:23 pm
…. What is wrong is when research is funded to come to or support a predetermined result determined by the funder. Real life doesn’t profit from wrong results. But politics can.
That’s what “Gail et al.” (and me, and I suspect you) are riled about.)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You are correct. We handed a credit card to a teenager (politicians) and he has bought lots of junk for him and his friends including the gun that all of them are now holding to our heads while he has left us poor.
We need to take that credit card away from him and take back control of our own money. We have had a hundred years trying it “Their Way” and we have a royal Charlie Foxtrot to show for it.
The
moneywealth does not “Go away” it just stays in the hands of those who own it and they can either reinvest and grow it or donate it or spend it.Pat Frank says: @ur momisugly January 21, 2014 at 8:56 pm
Dr. Frank,
The “You” with blood on their hands are the people and universities who get grant money by adding the correct buzz words like “Global Warming” and “Sustainable” to their grant applications. Or the ones who just stay silent. The correct term for them is ENABLERS. You and a select few are not enablers (unfortunately you are way too few). However tax payers no longer have the option to fund the good guys and NOT FUND the others. That is the point of yanking government funding out from under the enablers and the parasites who are just warming a chair and producing Baffle gab.
Wealth per year is a fixed pie. I want control of most of my wealth but governments now take 60% -80% and I have no say in its use. Therefore how can I say my wealth should go to Dr. Curry and Dr. Linzen and you instead of Mikey Mann?
Your University IS an enabler and that is the collective you I was referring to. I am sorry I was not more clear.
Unfortunately my University is just as bad and I no longer claim it, recommend it or support it with funds.
The Pompous Git says:
January 21, 2014 at 5:18 pm
That was Booker T. Washington, President of the Tuskegee Institute, a well known figure in US history. Carver was not a good department administrator & didn’t want the job.
Brad Keyes: your first paragraph is NOT a paraphrase. Its almost verbatim. I can see only two words changed.
The second paragraph is a direct quote also, and also unattributed.
I will let the readers decide if you paraphrased.
Your “paraphrasing:”
On the one hand, scientists are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but—which means that they must include all doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands and buts. On the other hand, they are not just scientists but human beings as well. And like most people they’d like to see the world a better place, which in this context translates into working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climate change. To do that they need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, means getting loads of media coverage. So they have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts they might have.
Schnieder’s Quote: http://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Mediarology/Mediarology.html
On the one hand, as scientists we are ethically bound to the scientific method, in effect promising to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but – which means that we must include all doubts, the caveats, the ifs, ands and buts. On the other hand, we are not just scientists but human beings as well. And like most people we’d like to see the world a better place, which in this context translates into our working to reduce the risk of potentially disastrous climate change. To do that we need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination. That, of course, means getting loads of media coverage. So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have.
With exception of two words changed, that I can see, they are identical.
You have plagarized two scientists.
Three words changed, that I can see.
WAY — TO — GO, Gail and Les!
Nice work.