Guest essay by Jan Kjetil Andersen
As Willis describes in his article on December 21, the atmosphere can be seen as a gigantic heat engine, i.e. a machine which convert thermal energy, namely temperature, into mechanical energy, namely wind.
It may seem a bit strange to view the weather system as a kind of machine and compare it with engineered constructs like an automobile engine, but it is sound physics because all such systems are bound by the same fundamental physical laws and they utilizes the same basic phenomena to create movement from heat.
A heat engine cannot convert heat directly to mechanical energy since that would break the second law of thermodynamics. What are needed are temperature differences. The greater temperature difference the greater effect of the machine. The amount of the energy in the temperature difference that is converted to mechanical energy is called the machines efficiency.
And here we have a very interesting, but less known fact of heat engines; the maximum theoretical efficiency decreases with increasing temperatures. This is interesting because it negates the conventional wisdom and often cited myth that a warmer climate leads to
more storminess, like the claim in the Guardian “a warmer planet has more energy to power stronger storms”, see http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2011/jun/27/climate-change-extreme-weather-2010.
Let us therefore take a look at the theoretical foundation of this effect. This is described by Carnot’s theorem.
Carnot’s Theorem says that the maximum efficiency drawn from a heat engine is the temperature difference between the warmest element and the coldest element divided by the temperature of the highest element.
Expressed as a formula it says: Emax = (Th-Tc)/Th.
Emax is the maximum efficiency
Th is the high temperature element measured in Kelvin
Tc is the cold temperature element measured in Kelvin.
The Carnot cycle is an ideal reversible cyclic process involving the expansion and compression of an ideal gas, which enables us to evaluate the efficiency of an engine utilizing this cycle.
For an interactive demonstration of the Carnot heat engine cycle, courtesy of the University of Virginia, click on the image:
Three important effects can be seen from Carnot’s theorem. The first is that a temperature difference is a necessary condition for converting heat energy to mechanical energy such as wind.
The second effect is that even if we had a perfect heat engine with zero internal friction; it would not achieve anything close to 100% efficiency. The maximum theoretical efficiency for a heat engine operating between 300 K and 600K is for example 50%. The efficiency of a real machine would of cause be considerably lower.
This is why our car engines only operate at about 25% efficiency. The warm element for a car engine is the exploding fuel inside the cylinders and the cold element is the air intake.
The best coal fired power plants have about 40% efficiency and the best gas powered about 55%. The cold elements for those plants are the coolant water, and those with highest efficiency utilize cold seawater as coolant.
Warming gives less efficiency
The third effect is as mentioned above, that, for a given temperature difference between the warm element and the cold element, the efficiency will decrease if both elements heat equally much. On cold days one can see a discernible effect of this in car engines; because the air intake is colder, the engine gives somewhat more power and higher efficiency.
This is also why some turbo charged engines have intercoolers. The turbo gives higher effect, but a non-intentional side effect is that it also increases the temperature in the air intake which will reduce the efficiency. The intercooler reduces the temperature increase introduced by the turbo.
The same effect applies to the wind formations in the atmosphere. Consider the summer temperature in the northern hemisphere; the cold element is the Arctic with a temperature of approximately 0 Celsius and the warm element is in the tropics with approximately 35 Celsius.
The Carnot theorem gives a maximum efficiency in this temperature range of 11.36%. If the temperature increased with 1 Celsius all over the globe, i.e. the difference changed to 1 Celsius in the Arctic and 36 Celsius in the tropic, the maximum efficiency would sink to 11.32%.
This is a minuscule difference, but the point is that it is a decrease, not an increase as the conventional wisdom will have it.
Less temperature differences on the surface
In addition to the effect of higher overall temperatures, the temperature differences will also be smaller. It is quite uncontroversial that the largest effect of global warming is on the cold polar winters and the smallest on the hot tropical summers.
![GFDL_CM2p1_SfcTemp_JJA_DJF_A1B_wht3200x2000[1]](http://wattsupwiththat.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/gfdl_cm2p1_sfctemp_jja_djf_a1b_wht3200x20001.png?quality=75)
However, to be fair, this is not all there is to this. Some climate models tell that the temperature differences in the upper troposphere will increase and this may have larger effect than both the reduced differences on the surface and the higher temperatures.
No settled science there.
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
In regards this:
However, I think this is an excellent problem for physics or math students, let them try to figure out why this will not work.*
Lets paste some notes I made about various pipelaunchers.
This is bunch of notes about generally tending to make them on *small side*
40 feet in diameter.
20 squared is 400, times pi is 1256 sq ft.
1 psi is 144 lbs per square foot. 1256 sq ft
is 180,864 lb force.
1″ walls: working pressure: 100 psi. Burst 200 psi
1/2″ ??: 50 working and 100 burst
http://www.texaspipe.com/barlows_formula.html
40,000 psi .5″ is 83.3 psi
.25 is 52 psi
40 foot diameter is 125.6 feet circumference.
100 foot length is 12560 square feet
1000 foot is 125600 square feet.
cubic feet of steel 40 dia and 1000 feet long which is 1/4 thick walls:
125600 divided by 48 is 2616.6 cubic feet
Cubic foot of steel weighs 489 pounds
1,279,550 lbs [640 tons]. creates 7 psi by it’s weight
30 feet in diameter.
15 square is 225, times pi is 706.5 sq ft.
1 psi is 101736 lbs of force.
1/4″ wall at 40000 is 69 psi
Circumference: 94.2 feet
1000 foot lenght is 94200 square feet
94200 divided by 48 is 1962.6 cubic feet of steel
Weighs 959,662.5 lbs [480 tons]
Creates 9.4 psi from it’s own weight.
30 feet diameter 2000 feet long
959,662.5 lbs x 2 is 1,919,325 lb [960 tons]
It’s mass creates 18.87 psi
To accelerate 1 gee, requires 37.7 psi
2000 ft long pipelauncher accelerating Falcon 9:
Gross weight of Falcon 9:
“Falcon 9 v1.1 performance was still 13.15 tonnes LEO or 4.85 tonnes GTO, but gross
liftoff mass had risen to as much as 505.846 tonnes. Liftoff thrust was 600.109 tonnes
for v1.1 and 1,800.327 tonnes for Heavy.”
http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/falcon9v1-1.html
So 600.109 tonnes [661.5 tons]
Say total including tower: 760 tons
1520000 + 1,919,325 lb is 3,439,325 [1720 tons]
To float requires 33.8 psi
To accelerate 1 gees require 67.6 psi
To accelerate for 10 seconds at 1 gee the distance traveled vertically is
10 second squared times 1/2 of 9.8 m/s/s [or 100 times 16 feet].
Resulting in the 2000 foot tall pipelauncher having it’s top [capped end]
1600 feet above waterline and 400 feet below the waterline.
And traveling at speed of 98 m/s [352.8 kpm- 219.2 mph]
98 m/s is about 320 feet per second
General conditions at 10 second mark: Air in pipe will be about 68 psi.
The air temperature in pipe will be around 100 C [200 F]. One will be spraying
liquid air and with burner burning Kerosene during the 10 seconds. One can also use
water [which at these pressure will boil above 100 C- but surfaces might exceed
the air temperature- and air will be very dry- so it will evaporate due partial pressure
of water vapor]. At or before the 10 second mark, the buring of kerosene is stopped.
And the continuation of spraying liquid air without heat added would reduce air pressure.
And upward continuation of velocity will also lower the air pressure.
So at 10 second mark air pressure is about 68 psi, if air pressure drops to 34 psi such air
pressure would still cause aceleration [33.8 psi causes it to float- 34 psi would cause it
to rise slowly.
68 psi is 4.6 atm. 1 Atm would press water 33 feet below waterline. So at 68 psi water
in pipe is depressed 152.65 feet waterline inside the pipe. And a decrease in pressure in
the pipe will cause the water to rise. Having 68 psi keep water at that level. Increasing
pressure to 68 psi pushes it down to 152.65 feet. It’s isn’t the forcing of water out the
pipe which is the cause of acceleration- it’s not “jet powered” but it’s also not an
insignificant factor in beginning and ending of acceleration.
So at 10 second mark, the pipe is 400 feet under water and has 400 – 152.65 feet of water
inside the pipe: 247.35 feet coulumn of water.
Due to momentum and not considering forces slowing such momentum, the pipelauncher travel at
320 feet per second, it will at 11 second mark have pipe will only be 80 feet under the water.
And since was 152.65 feet fill with air, 152.65 – 80 feet. Or 72.65 foot column of air would
be pushed out the bottom of the pipe. It also mean that at air pressure at 80 feet below
water line is 36.3 psi. So at 10 second mark there was 68 psi, at the 11 second mark the
pressure inside pipe would drop to about 36 psi.
Now one could make a design modification. Simple or more complicated. Simple would be
having big holes in the pipe, starting at 250 feet from the bottom of the pipe. Which means
the 250 feet of pipe would used to slow down the pipelauncher. So at 10 second mark air would
start “venting” out sides of pipe, and as the holes became closer to surface [within the 1
second] more air would pushed out to holes. Or you have doors at near or at top pipe which
open at 10 second mark.
Now if you do no modifications, and do nothing at the 11 second mark, you will have about
about 36 psi air in pipe, and within a fraction of second, the 36 psi will go to zero- same
pressure as atmosphere.
Or with no modifications but the continuation dumping in liquid air one can rapid cool
the air, causing the pressure to drop.
One can do lots of stuff. This is the art of driving a pipelauncher.
For instance for first 8 to 9 seconds of acceleration you could keep the air temperature
around 100 C or cooler, and in last second or two rapidly increase air temperature-
burn more kerosense and/or stop adding liquid air. And a fraction of second before 10 second
mark stop all kerosene burning, and dump liquid air.
If you have 500 K air and lower temprature to 250 K, you get 1/2 the pressure, 68 psi
becomes 34 psi, which stops acceleration and causes water to rise in the pipe.
Aluminum: 2.72
Steel: 7.82
PVC 1.36
Small diameter and long:
20 feet in diameter 2000 feet long [or longer].
200 feet length Marine Aluminum- fire box and ice box.
1600 feet of PVC
200 feet of steel
In water PVC has little weight. Steel has higher density and will function as keel.
PVC has Yield tensile strength 6500 psi or about 1/6th of 40 K aluminium alloy or steel.
1 inch wall 20 feet [240″] diameter can withstand 54 psi. 1.5″: 81.25 psi
Will use 1 1/2″ wall thickness will PVC and 1/2″ wall thickness with aluminium. And 1/4″ pipe
wall thickness with steel.
200 feet 20 foot diameter 1/4″ steel pipe weighs:
circumference: 62.8 feet. Times 200 is 12560 square feet.
12560 divided by 48 is 261.6 cubic feet of steel.
cubic feet of steel: weighs 489 pounds. Times 261.6 is
127,955 lbs [69.9 tons]. In water it weighs less than 8/7th this weigh [56 tons].
But as accelerated mass it’s about 70 tons.
Distilled water is about 62 lb per cubic foot [62.428]
So, Aluminum: 2.72 is about 170 lb per cubic foot and PVC is about 85 lbs
So Aluminum 20 diameter and 200 feet long is 12560 divided by 24 which is:
523.3 cubic feet. Weighs: 88966.6 lbs [44.5 tons].
PVC 20 ft diameter and 1600 ft is 12560 times 8: 100,480 square feet.
100,480 divided by 8 is 25,120 cubic feet. Which weighs:
2,135,200 lbs [1067.6 tons]. But in water it weighs about 22 lb per cubic foot [276 tons].
20 diameter circle has 314 square feet. At 1 psi it’s 144 lb of force.
314 times 144 is 45,216 lbs of force per 1 psi.
To float 200 feet above waterline: it weighs: 56 + 44.5 + 276 tons: 376.5 tons. Or about:
753000 lb. Divide by 45,216, means it needs 16.6 psi of air pressure inside pipe.
If rocket plus everything else weighs 376.5 tons, then need 33.3 psi.
Which is 2.65 atm and depressing water, 74.77 feet below the waterline.
To determine the air pressure with 1 gee acceleration one has to use mass rather than
weight. And 791.6 and 14 tons- 805.6 tons- 1,611,200 lb. So: 1,611,200 + 753000 lb x 2 is:
3,117,200 lbs. Divide by 45,216 is 68.9 psi. So it’s 68.9 plus 33.3 psi and that is
102.2 psi. Which exceeds the 81.25 psi strenght of PVC. But 1/2″ wall Aluminum can withstand
166.6 psi.
So the 102.2 psi is 6.95 atm or depresses water 229.5 feet below waterline.
So roughly, if made the 200 feet of aluminium pipe be instead 250 feet, you start with 1 gee
acceleration.
Hmm. Let try 2 seconds at 1 gee. Make aluminium pipe 300 feet long. The aluminium is lighter
out of water and PVC is only a bit lighter than alumium in the water, but PVC would probably be
be cheaper. So half a gee is 68.9 / 2 = 34.45 psi. Plus 33.3 ps is 67.75 psi. So one more than
1/2 gee of acceleration.
Lets say part of launch tower is a tube, which is water resistent. Say this tube is 30 feet
tall, and allow pipelauncher to start it’s acceleration -20 feet below waterline.
In terms of pressure if PVC pipe is below 33 feet it would be overpressurize by 14.7 psi.
And 81.25 plus 14.7 is 95.95 psi and 66 feet is 110.5 psi. So with 1 gee acceleration
PVC must below 60 feet under water.
And PVC starts 320 feet under water. So within 4 seconds at 1 gee acceleration it moves up
256 feet. So at 4 second mark moving at 128 ft per second [39.2 m/s {87.5 mph}].
If 128 ft per second velocity were not to accelerate but kept constant speed, you run out pipe
lenght in 13 seconds- total being 13 plus the 4 seconds at 1 gee.
And roughly want the time to be about 10 seconds or more in total.
So try 8 seconds + 4 seconds. and 8 second at 24 ft per second per second, which distance of
768 feet. Plus 8 second at 128 ft per second which is 1024 feet. Which doesn’t work.
So 7 seconds: 24 ft per second per second, distance is 588 ft plus 896 ft plus the 256 ft.
Is 1740 feet. Minus 20 ft leaving 280 feet of pipe in water after 11 seconds of acceleration.
With velocity of 128 ft + 168 feet per second [296 ft/s [ 84.9 m/s or 189.5 mph].
All aluminum:
“Aluminum 20 diameter and 200 feet long is 12560 divided by 24 which is:
523.3 cubic feet. Weighs: 88966.6 lbs [44.5 tons].”
Times 10 to equal 2000 ft long: 88966.6 lbs [44.5 tons] * 10 = 889666 lbs [445 tons].
“20 diameter circle has 314 square feet. At 1 psi it’s 144 lb of force.
314 times 144 is 45,216 lbs of force per 1 psi.”
So, 19.6 psi to float.
Have rocket and tower plus everything else 445 tons times 2 = 890 tons
To float: 19.6 psi + 19.6 times 2 = 39.35. Total 58.95 to float.
1 gee is 117.9 psi. 20 feet diameter Aluminium 1/2″ wall can operate as high as 166.6 psi.
Could accelerate slightly faster than 1 gee or add more length.
Say add 22.1 psi of added pipe giving pressure of 140 psi.
Adding 1000 feet [3000″ in total] adds 9.83 to float and 19.6 psi with 1 gee.
So 10 second of 1 gee is 490 meters or about 1600 feet. 1600 feet out of water and 1400 feet
under water. And 117.9 + 19.6 psi is 137.5 psi [9.35 atm] so water pressed 308.67 feet under
water. So at 10 second aceleration one has 1091.33 feet of pipe with water in it and 1908.67
feet with air at 137.5 psi.
If pressure can rapidly halved to 68.75 psi, the this pressure floats payload and pipe.
Without added more pressure:
Pipelauncher and rocket with continue to accelerate but be decreasing in acceleration- ceasing to
accelerate once pressure reaches 68.75 psi.
So at 10 second mark, after accelerating 10 seconds 32 feet per sec/sec, it’s going at
320 feet per second. So at 11 second mark it will traveled additional 320 plus it’s decaying
acceleration rate [called it DAR]. So volume of air in pipe will increase by 1908.67 feet
plus 320 feet plus DAR. And ignoring DAR it’s 1908.67 + 320 = 2228.67 feet.
A 20% increase of 1908.67 is 2290.4 feet.
A 100% increase would half the pressure- lose 68.75 psi. So at 20% one loses a 1/5th of this
so 13.75 psi. And lose 1/5 acceleration: 6.4 ft per sec from 32 feet per second.
So in one second one goes from 32 ft per sec/sec to 25.6. And the acceleration average during
the second is 28.8 feet per second.
So going back and adding DAR is 1908.67 + 320 + 28.8 = 2257.47 feet.
But decrease of 13.75 of psi will causes the water inside pipe to rise about 30 feet- this is
not instantaneous [it accelerate from zero to 6.4 ft per sec/sec during the 1 sec.]
So at 12 second mark the pipe travels up 2 times 320′ [plus 2 seconds of DAR].
Again roughly, pressure reduces by another 1/5th.
So in two seconds, pressure at 137.5 drops by 13.75 + 13.75 psi- falls to about 110 psi.
And roughly, [320′ times 2] + [28.8 times 2] equals 697.6
One had 1091.33 feet of pipe with water minus 697.6 feet, leaves 393.73 water in pipe, but
water also increasing as water accelerate up pipe [a minor amount so far].
And with water still in pipe, one gets another second of acceleration- 1 second +.
So DAR has decreased from 32 ft per sec/sec to 25.6 and second two 25.6 to 19.2 feet per second
per second. Add to 320 feet per second 44.8 per second [248 mph]. And after second 3:
12.8 ft persec/sec [1/2 to 1/3 gee]. And pressure drop by about another 13.75 psi [end of 13
seconds pressure inside pipe will be about 96 psi [ 6.5 atm and pushes water 216 feet below sea
level. The 137.5 psi [9.35 atm] pushing it 308.67 feet under water. Accelerationg of
water was 6.4, 12.8, finally 19.2 feet per sec per sec. And water rising 3.2, 12.8, 22.4 =
38.4 feet. after 3 seconds [and “wants” to be about 60 feet higher- and sort of like water
falling from 60 feet up- it’s rushing like a waterfall upwards].
But we can add 38.4 feet to the 393.73 feet: 432 feet.
The distance traveled in 12 to 13 second is 320 + 28.8 + 22.4 + 16 = 387.2 feet.
So 48.8 feet of water left in pipe.
In terms pipe in water. [320 * 3] + 28.8 + 22.4 + 16. Had 1400 feet minus 1027.2 feet =
372.8 feet.
All kinds of excitement occurs in the 13 second to 14 second mark. Pipe will at around 14 second
mark, be leaving the water, water once in pipe will be chasing after it, and lacking water
pressure to prevent air pressure from leaving pipe. One not have a second of acceleration
after the 14 second mark.
“30 feet in diameter.
15 square is 225, times pi is 706.5 sq ft.
1 psi is 101736 lbs of force.
Circumference: 94.2 feet
1/4″ steel wall at 40000 is 69 psi
1000 foot lenght is 94200 square feet
94200 divided by 48 is 1962.6 cubic feet of steel
Weighs 959,662.5 lbs [480 tons]”
Aluminum: 2.72
Steel: 7.82
1/2″ 360″ diameter, Aluminum alloy with 40,000 psi strength burst pressure: 111 psi
Aluminum:
1/2″ rather than 1/4″
“Cubic foot of aluminum will weigh 171 pounds”
Instead of 94200 divided by 48 it’s divided by 24:
3925 cubic feet of Aluminum. Which weighs 671,175 lbs.
Cap: 706.5 sq ft 1/2 thick: 29.4 cubic feer: 5034 lbs
Total weight 676,209 lbs.
Rocket weight: 2 million lbs
Rough total weight is 2.8 million lbs
And 2.8 million divided by 101736 lbs per 1 psi is
27.522 psi or 1.87 atm.
In terms of total amount of air it’s 1 atm plus 1.87 atm.
Mass of air 1000 feet length and 30 foot diameter:
706.5 sq ft time 1000 is 706,500 cubic feet of air
“According to the CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, the density of dry air at
20 degrees C at 760 mm of mercury (one atmosphere of pressure) is 1.204 milligrams per
cubic centimeter.
1 cubic foot = 28,316.8467 cubic centimeters.
So, dry air weighs 34,093.48 mg per cu.ft.
Which is about 1.2 ounces per cu.ft. ”
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_a_cubic_foot_of_air_weigh
So 1 atm at 20 C, 706,500 cubic feet of air is 847,870 oz.
And 2.87 atm at 20 C is 2,433,186 oz. Or 152,074 lbs
Or 76 tons.
Assume have this pipelauncher [gross weight: 400 tons] with 1000 ton rocket is floating with top
of pipelauncher 20 feet above the water. It has 27.522 psi of air in it. 14.7 psi of air will push
to water 33 feet below sea level- or about 2.25 feet per psi. So 27.522 psi of air will push water
61.78 feet under water. And with 20 feet above water, one has about 81 feet of air at
1.87 atm + 1 atm. One starting with about 1/12th of total 76 tons of air- about 6 tons.
So if one adds 70 tonnes of air, fills the entire pipe length of 1000 feet with 1.87 + 1 atm
quantity of air.
So if added 70 tons of liquid air and the liquid air was warmed to 20 C- [pouring it into warm
ocean water would more or less do this. Considering area of 30 diameter pipe is 706.5 sq ft and
one foot depth of water is 706.5 cubic ft. Is 22 tons of water. And dumping a ton or more
liquid air it will mix with the water several feet under the surface of the water.
Plus turning the water into ice requires a lot energy in terms of heat loss. Making it improbable
that liquid air dumped into warm sea water would be cooler than 0 C, and more mixed with water
the higher temperature of the air.
So roughly air should limited roughly between range of 0 and 20 C without adding additional
heat [which will be done]. The air in the pipe will be heated over 100 C, but first
starting with assumption of air heated to 20 C.]
So if put 70 tons of air at 20 C in pipe and it’s 1/2 full of air- 500 feet of length has air
in it, the air pressure will be 2 times 2.87 atm Or doubling the volume will 1/2 the pressure/density
if same temperature.
If add 70 tons of air at 20 C over long time period- anything over couple minutes is long period,
the pipelauncher and rocket payload will rise until bottom of pipe is 62 feet under water and top of
pipe is 938 feet. And it’s unstable in this position- it flip over it not balanced. But it floats
vertically if prevented from flopping over.
If instead of slowly adding 70 tons of air, one were to very rapidly add the 70 tons- say in less
than 1 second, one have too much pressure in the pipe. If make the pipe strong enough to
withstand such pressures, one gets the pipelauncher going up quickly and the water being pushed
down quickly.
Instead of slowly adding air and very quickly adding air, one want to do is increase the pressure
to certain amount and keep the pressure at this level.
So with gross weight of 2.8 million lb it requires 27.522 psi pushing up on top of pipe and
pushing down on water inside pipe. Top of pipe has area of 706.5 sq ft or 101,736 square inches.
If pressure is doubled [55.04 psi] then water pushed down twice as far and one gets 1 gee of
acceleration for long as there is 55.04 psi. And water stays at level of twice depth.
And at 55.04 psi and with 500 feet of air in pipe. And air is at 20 C that requires 70 tons of added
air.
And if double the temperature in K, it doubles pressure. 20 C is 293 K. So increase to 313 C it’s
twice pressure. And increase temperature by 50% [+146.5 C] or to 166.5 C it increase pressure by 50%.
It also means if decrease air temperature by 50% from 20 C that is -126.5 C, it halves pressure.
Liquid Nitrogen boils at -195.8°C in 1 atm. So spray liquid nitrogen in say 20 C air, it could cool the
air down to -126.5 [as -126.5 C air is still warm enough to boil nitrogen droplets of liquid].
So if you had 100 feet of air in pipe at 20 C, and misted liquid nitrogen into air and cooled air to
-126.5 C to column of air at same pressure would shrink by 50%. Go from 100′ to 50′. And if air warmed
back up to 20 C it expands back to 100′ and if heated to 166.5 C, expands to 150′.
So with 20 C air and 20 feet above water, we column of air being about 82. If instead it was 40 feet
above water, one have 102 feet column of air, and cooled air to -126.5 C, the top of pipe go below the
sea level [10 feet below]. If doubled the 82 feet so had 164 feet of air at the start, and cooled to
-126.5 C then it drops down to 20 feet above water. And instead starting with 6 tons of air in pipe,
we start with 12 tons.
So at start of launch sequence, the top of pipe is about 100 feet [10 stories] above to water, you cool
the air and pipelauncher drops and once stops falling, use kerosene or methane burners to heat the air
and dump liquid nitrogen [or liquid air] into the water- turning it into somewhat cool air.
So since increased the starting tonnage of air by 6 ton, the 70 tons is 64 tons.
So with 64 tonnes of air added and temperature of 20 C, and half pipe full this gives 1 gee of acceleration.
Or by the correct amount in, we get 1 gee acceleration up point where 500 feet of air at 20 C is
in the pipe. At 32 feet per sec per sec that is 5.59 seconds of 1 gee, and speed of 178.88 feet per second
[54.5 m/s- or about 128 mph].
Increasing air temperature from 20 C to 166.5 C increases the 500 feet to 750 feet.
And at 32 feet per sec per sec at 1 gee up to point of 750 feet is 6.84 seconds of acceleration, and
speed of 219 feet per sec [66.79 m/s- 132.5 mph].
So with 750 feet of pipe out of water, one is left with 250 feet under the water at the point of 6.84
seconds of acceleration. And the water is pushed under water 61.78 feet times 2 [123.56 feet under the
water] and one is traveling up at 219 feet per sec. So at this point the total column of air is 750
plus 123.56 feet. Which is 873.56 feet of air at 55.04 psi and air temperature of 166.5 C.
If stop adding any more air or heat, one still have +50 psi and air temperature of +160 C for the next
1/2 of second, so you have slightly less than 1 gee of acceleration for 1/2. And in 1/2 second you
travel 219 + 8 feet per second divided 2, or about 113.5 feet upwards. Or add 113.5 to 873.56 feet-
which is 987.06 feet- leaving only 12.94 feet of pipe still in the water. And within the 1/2 second
the air in pipe will be expelled out into the water.
A conclusion one could reach is if one going to heat air to 166.5 C, then one add less than 64 ton of
liquid air. So say less than 60 tons of air added.
And instead acceleration at 1 gee for 6.84 seconds, it could be for 6 second. And addition 1 second of
acceleration at slightly less than 1 gee.
So 6 seconds is 576 feet upward, rather than 750 feet. And 7 second at almost 1 gee 784 feet.
And less than velocity of 224 feet per sec [68 m/s- 152 mph].
In all cases once bottom of pipe leaves water, one gets no more acceleration.
And this last “refinement” at 7 second point, the pressure in pipe is dropping and water isn’t pushed
down as much and is rising. Both these factors are occuring after 6 seconds, but by 7 seconds they
are amounting to something. So at/after 7 second air pressure would be less than 50 psi and water
pushed down less than 113 feet. So 784 + less than 113 feet is less than 897 feet. So more than
100 feet of water in pipe. And more than 216 pipe in the water after 7 second of accleration.
Which means one have about in additional + 3/4 of second of acceleration and + 3/4 of gee.
So one further reduce acelleration of 6 second gee, to say 5 3/4 of second and get about 2 seconds
of about average of .8 gee. And need to use less tonnage of air. And get slightly more than 150 mph.
And one can do better than 150, if one uses more than 1 gee for say first 4-5 seconds of acceleration.
Such increase in acceleration doesn’t require more tonnage of air, just quicker use of air, and bit
more kerosene/methane use [and one using a small amount fuel- roughly one heating 76 ton of air by
+ 140 C.
To heat 1 kg of air by 1 C: 1.0 kJ/kg.K
So say 70,000 kg times 150 K equals 10.5 million kilojoules.
Kerosene 46,200k kJ/kg
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/fuels-higher-calorific-values-d_169.html
So 227 kg of kerosene.
Tiny pipelauncher:
5 to 30 ton gross mass rocket:
30 ton: 1 gee acceleration.
8 feet diameter
250 feet long
8 feet diameter. Area 50.24 square feet
50.24 sq ft is 7234.56 square inches
1 foot length is 50.24 cubic feet. 1 cubic foot water weighs about 62 lbs:
1 foot length displaces 50.24 time 62 is 3114.88 lbs.
100 foot lenght: 311,488 lb
To push water 100 ft requires about 1 atm per 33 ft depth. So about 3 atm [14.7 * 3 is 44.1 psi]
1/8″ thick wall pipe 96″ diameter can easily withstand 45 psi.
Circumference of 8′ diameter pipe 25.12 feet.
1 foot length of pipe is 25.12 feet by 1 foot. 25.12 square feet.
1/8th inch thickness of 1 foot square requires 96 square feet to equal one cubic foot.
Or 25.12 square feet at 1/8″ is .261666 cubic feet of material
Cubic foot of aluminum Weighs= 168.5 lbs
“1 cubic foot of aluminum weighs 169.344 Lbs”
“Aluminum is about 171 pounds per cubic foot.”
Assume it’s 171 lbs. Times by .261666 is 44.75 lbs
And 250 feet weighs 44.75 times 250: 11,185.25 lbs
Cap is 50.24 square feet so 1/8″ is 44.75 lbs. 1/4 is 89.5 lb
So 1/8 wall and 1/4″ cap and 8′ diameter and 250 lenght mass is
11,185.25 + 89.5 lb. 11,274.75 lbs. [5 1/2 tons]
Without any additional mass pipelauncher floats with 3.61 feet of air in pipe and
at air pressure of 1.558 psi.
{A human with pressure of breath raise the level it floats above the water. And
would not cause it to sink by much if stood on it.}
“The density of seawater varies between 1.02 and 1.03 SGU, so a cubic foot of seawater
weighs between 63.6 and 64.3 pounds at 40 degrees F.”
“1 cubic foot of water weighs approximately 62.46 pounds.”
“density of fresh water at 20C = 0.998 g/cm³ = 998 kg/m³ = 8.33 lb/gal = 62.1 lb/ft³
density of seawater = 1.025 g/cm³ = 1025 kg/m³ = 8.55 lb/gal = 63.8 lb/ft³
1 foot length: 50.24 cubic feet times salt water at 63.6 is 3195.2 lbs
30 ton payload: 60,000 lbs + pipelauncher 11,274.75 lbs is 71,274.75 lb
71,274.75 lbs. 1 foot length: 3195 lb. 71,274 lbs divided by 3195 is 22.3 feet
71,274 divided by 7234.5 square inches is 9.85 psi
1 gee acceleration:
9.85 psi times 2 is 19.7 psi. And water depressed 44.6 feet under sea level.
9.8 m/s/s 19.7
19.6 m/s/s is 29.5 psi. and water depth of 66.9 feet.
Konrad says:
December 29, 2013 at 3:27 am
TB says:
December 29, 2013 at 1:29 am
“Konrad: I have discussed this with you on another thread I believe.”
—————————————————————————————-
Yes TB, I believe you have…
You claimed that vertical tropospheric circulation strong enough to generate the observed lapse rate would exist in the absence of radiative cooling at altitude because –
“A natural lapse rate will develop regardless of atmospheric radiative responses. Due differential latitudinal heating > frictional turbulence > convection > overturning > geopotential height gradient > Coriolis > adiabatic cooling/heating – creating a heat pump and warming the lower layers/cooling aloft. Radiation is NOT needed. Models know this.”
“I stand by my response –“
Fair enough;
I stand by my knowledge/training/text books and global models that do not incorporate it as a driver.
Sorry if that is an “appeal to authority”.
“I would suggest that you have left out wizards, unicorns and climate “scientists” frantically waving their hands trying to drive megatonnes of gas in a giant flow from surface to 15Km altitude and back.”
No, it’s just basic meteorology my friend, not magic.
“Out of your depth on a wet pavement” doesn’t really cover it. How about “so far out of your depth the fish have lights on their noses”?
Now, no need to get snarky.
Radiative cooling is a factor affecting the temp profile of the Trop to a small degree, but nowhere is it a driver. Convergence/divergence aloft is the principle “top end” physics process in the troposphere.
Sinking air inherently warms under compression anyway, as does the air below this sinking air, so no sig temp differential would exist to provide a sinking motion other than air converging aloft.
Hadley Cells’ prime driver is convection/LH release.
Have you seen the vids of rotating fluids cooled at the centre and warmed at the edges?
They mimic the Earth’s hemispheric flow well enough, without radiative effects having an effect.
Might I suggest that “pwned” would be an elegant sufficiency…?
??
Would there be a perspective gain in seeing the world not as a gigantic heat engine but a gigantic heat REDISTRIBUTION engine?
The difference I see is that as a redistribution engine (or system) regional heating or cooling is not a sign of additional or less energy per se, i.e. an unbalanced energy budget, nor a system in flux adapting to a change in initial parameters, but a system operating in THIS way at THIS moment.
As a heat engine, we see the world as deterministic. As a heat redistribution engine, we could see the world as probabilistic. Regionalism is not a problem with redistribution but it is with an engine, unless we decide that the engine is either not working “properly” or has had the accelerator push/pulled.
Trenberth wants the deep ocean to be warming (even though he can’t see it) to solve his problem. What if the prior heating is a deep ocean heat RELEASE issue: we know the thermal characteristics of water are so much greater than air that a small, unnoticed heat transfer from the ocean to the atmosphere would kick the air temps up a great deal.
The climate debate is a who-dun-it where the police have decided that the neighbour did it, and spend all their resources to prove that hypothesis, while ignoring the crack-addicted thug on the corner of the block.
Box of Rocks says:
December 29, 2013 at 9:01 am
No, I am not forgetting about it, but it is not relevant in this context.
We know that we have an uneven distribution of heat around the globe. Some of this is distributed by water and some by air, but I don’t go into that problem. I take the situation as it is, that we have different temperatures around the globe, as a starting point. And from this starting point we know from the physical laws that this different temperatures will stir up some movements in the air and in the water.
These movements are mechanical energy in the form of wind and ocean currents. I am only discussing the winds in this article, and my point is that the potential for creating mechanical energy in the form of wind decreases when all temperatures increases uniformly. When the lower temperatures on the planet increase more than the higher temperatures, as the models predict, the potential for mechanical energy will decrease further.
/ Jan
How the atmosphere processes heat is pretty simple.
There has never: not ever: been anything about the atmosphere that stopped mankind from filling lightweight airframes with human life – as in “we’ll sue you out of existence if there’s anything major you don’t know about this and it causes a problem,” – and landing those human beings anywhere they saw fit.
Just because the people alive today can’t remember doesn’t mean the entire applied research aerospace field didn’t have a very,
very good idea, of the fundamentals of atmospheric action.
It’s a pot of fluid compounds, one of them boils off at the bottom, rises until it emits that heat, condenses and falls again. The others move around in it’s wake, along with earth’s spin imparting it’s motion.
It’s just, not nearly as complicated conceptually, as the entire Magic Gas preaching world, tried to pretend.
Then again pretense is all they had to work with.
And when you make your living
pretending refrigerants and coolant compounds bearing them: water’s the refrigerant, the cold nitrogen and oxygen are the coolant compounds bearing it to the surface of the heated target object –
are all part of “a giant heater,” because you ‘did the math’ and “it shows you that immersing a hot rock into cold, refrigerated nitrogen, made the rock get hotter than when you heated it up in vacuum” – the claim made by warm atmosphere religionists –
it’s no wonder they can’t tell which way a thermometer will go.
And that everything looks impenetrably complicated.
The problem is you self owned.
The whole reason for convective overturn being what it is,
is the radiative gas water: which magnifies the atmosphere’s activity.
So while telling someone ‘pwnd’ is ALWAYS elegant and sufficient,
self-pwnd is even better: and you did because he tried to tell you: the radiative gas class drives the entire thing much harder than if there were no water, being fundamentally responsible for each, individuall Hadley circulation. Each Hadley circulation’s nothing more than a “heat pipe” which is a phase change refrigerator.
Which means the atmosphere’s nothing but a series of refrigerating Hadley cells, or in other words a series of
radiative gas driven
phase change
refrigeration cells.
This isn’t complicated it’s been known for years, a group of unethical people called ‘Green House Gas Effect” believers hijacked atmospheric science and destroyed an entire current generation’s understanding of gas energy science.
So I’ll call “pwnt”
and consider that I helped by reminding everyone that it’s been known for years,
the Hadley cells are mini refrigeration cycles
the refrigerant being water.
==============
TB says:
December 29, 2013 at 9:44 am
Konrad says:
December 29, 2013 at 3:27 am
TB says:
December 29, 2013 at 1:29 am
“Konrad: I have discussed this with you on another thread I believe.”
—————————————————————————————-
Yes TB, I believe you have…
You claimed that vertical tropospheric circulation strong enough to generate the observed lapse rate would exist in the absence of radiative cooling at altitude because –
“A natural lapse rate will develop regardless of atmospheric radiative responses. Due differential latitudinal heating > frictional turbulence > convection > overturning > geopotential height gradient > Coriolis > adiabatic cooling/heating – creating a heat pump and warming the lower layers/cooling aloft. Radiation is NOT needed. Models know this.”
“I stand by my response –“
Fair enough;
I stand by my knowledge/training/text books and global models that do not incorporate it as a driver.
Sorry if that is an “appeal to authority”.
“I would suggest that you have left out wizards, unicorns and climate “scientists” frantically waving their hands trying to drive megatonnes of gas in a giant flow from surface to 15Km altitude and back.”
No, it’s just basic meteorology my friend, not magic.
“Out of your depth on a wet pavement” doesn’t really cover it. How about “so far out of your depth the fish have lights on their noses”?
Now, no need to get snarky.
Radiative cooling is a factor affecting the temp profile of the Trop to a small degree, but nowhere is it a driver. Convergence/divergence aloft is the principle “top end” physics process in the troposphere.
Sinking air inherently warms under compression anyway, as does the air below this sinking air, so no sig temp differential would exist to provide a sinking motion other than air converging aloft.
Hadley Cells’ prime driver is convection/LH release.
Have you seen the vids of rotating fluids cooled at the centre and warmed at the edges?
They mimic the Earth’s hemispheric flow well enough, without radiative effects having an effect.
Might I suggest that “pwned” would be an elegant sufficiency…?
??
Well this post went chest up.
“the maximum theoretical efficiency decreases with increasing temperatures”
Um. No. Not really. Sort of? Hmmm…. No. Not really. The “maximum theoretical efficiency” decreases as the cycle becomes less square on a T-s diagram. The solution to increasing differences between Th and Tc is to increase the range of Va to Vc thus making it more square in the, again, T-s space. These sorts of problems are better worked out in T-s space or at least P-T space since dP drives V.
I didn’t have the heart to read the rest of the argument but the increasing temperature difference leads to more storm energy is a basic NS energy balance argument. Lindzen gave the best rebuttal which was to show that GWT predicts increasing polar temperatures and even tropical temperatures thus lessening the temperature difference that drives storms.
[Snip. Duplicate post. ~ mod]
Bill from Nevada says:
December 29, 2013 at 12:31 pm
The problem is you self owned.
The whole reason for convective overturn being what it is,
is the radiative gas water: which magnifies the atmosphere’s activity.
So while telling someone ‘pwnd’ is ALWAYS elegant and sufficient,
self-pwnd is even better: and you did because he tried to tell you: the radiative gas class drives the entire thing much harder than if there were no water, being fundamentally responsible for each, individuall Hadley circulation. Each Hadley circulation’s nothing more than a “heat pipe” which is a phase change refrigerator.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No he didn’t actually. He (Konrad) claims a HC is driven by radiative cooling aloft causing descent. It is not. Full stop. The reasons are as I state, and are incorporated in the equations that go into NWP models. By his reasoning they’d go berserk.
I also said the prime driver is convection and LH release. You have just said the same thing in another way.
“Which means the atmosphere’s nothing but a series of refrigerating Hadley cells, or in other words a series of
radiative gas driven
phase change
refrigeration cells.”
It’s far, far more than that my friend.
Get a text book on Meteorology and start at page 1.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“This isn’t complicated it’s been known for years, a group of unethical people called ‘Green House Gas Effect” believers hijacked atmospheric science and destroyed an entire current generation’s understanding of gas energy science.”
I’m afraid it is complicate my friend, and efforts to simplify it defy belief.
Known for years? Well my professional meteorological knowledge goes back to 1974. You?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“So I’ll call “pwnt””
If it makes you happy
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“and consider that I helped by reminding everyone that it’s been known for years,
the Hadley cells are mini refrigeration cycles
the refrigerant being water.”
Correct in a simplistic way – but that’s not what Konrad was arguing.
I suggest after page 1 you skip to Coriolis and divergence/convergence zone entrance/exits in jet streams (vital understanding regarding the upper branch of a HC) and also the vast majority of mid/upper latitude meteorology.
[Snip. Duplicate post. ~mod.]
I see I wrote “Hadley cells” when I shoulda written “Hadley-like cells” or “refrigeration circulation cells” but I don’t typically place a lot of importance on an occasional grammatical slip.
Those who want to get the point always do, those who desperately wish it wasn’t there, never do.
[Snip. Duplicate post. ~ mod]
Cont
“This isn’t complicated it’s been known for years, a group of unethical people called ‘Green House Gas Effect” believers hijacked atmospheric science and destroyed an entire current generation’s understanding of gas energy science.”
I’m afraid it is complicate my friend, and efforts to simplify it defy belief.
Known for years? Well my professional meteorological knowledge goes back to 1974. You?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
“So I’ll call “pwnt””
If it makes you happy
Cont
[Snip. Duplicate post. AGAIN. Best to lay off the hooch when commenting, TB. ~ mod]
Such as TB here with his flailing.
You can’t help willful disbelief of what’s in front of someone’s eyes. Everyone who’s ever seen a heat pipe in action knows it’s a form of phase change refrigeration,
and everyone who’s ever overviewed atmospheric circulation knows it’s a series of refrigeration cells,
and every that the Hadley, Ferrel, and Polar cells, are driven primarily by the phase change effect of water making possible circulation otherwise impossible.
“and consider that I helped by reminding everyone that it’s been known for years,
the Hadley cells are mini refrigeration cycles
the refrigerant being water.”
Correct in a simplistic way – but that’s not what Konrad was arguing.
I suggest after page 1 you skip to Coriolis and divergence/convergence zone entrance/exits in jet streams (vital understanding regarding the upper branch of a HC)
Bill from Nevada says:
December 29, 2013 at 4:18 pm
Such as TB here with his flailing.
You can’t help willful disbelief of what’s in front of someone’s eyes. Everyone who’s ever seen a heat pipe in action knows it’s a form of phase change refrigeration,
and everyone who’s ever overviewed atmospheric circulation knows it’s a series of refrigeration cells,
and every that the Hadley, Ferrel, and Polar cells, are driven primarily by the phase change effect of water making possible circulation otherwise impossible.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
As I said Bill, whatever makes you happy then believe it, why not. Some people believe in fairies. It’s generally harmless.
Can I ask you what you do/did for a living?
Was it a profession. A scientific one perhaps? I have the same profession as Anthony – our host here.
Would you like to contact him directly and tell him you know more about it than him … because that’s what you have just done by inference.
Anyway whatever you do/did do. Well I know more than you. So there. Start flailing.
Like I said Meteorology is far more complicated than that. Just as a start you overlook a basic. The Earth spins my friend. And that adds a vital dynamic to things.
This will be instructive for you….
http://www.iup.uni-bremen.de/~bms/lecture_atmphys/AtmosphericPhysics_04_05_dyn.pdf
TB says:
December 29, 2013 at 4:18 pm
[Snip. Duplicate post. AGAIN. Best to lay off the hooch when commenting, TB. ~ mod]
Sorry mod – I’m sober honest.
I simply thought it’d got lost in the ether!
The Ferrel cells are included as part of that. Their motion’s responsible for picking up moisture that later falls out as polar and ferrel cells encounter each other and mixing causes that moisture to fall out in the snow bands around the world, where polar cell circulation and ferrel cell circulations collide.
It doesn’t take an entire book to know how the atmosphere works. It’s fluid compound of nitrogen and oxygen that are quite cold. Mixed with them is some water vapor gas which acts as phase change refrigerant.
The motion and action isn’t difficult to perceive in fact you have to be willfully trying not to. It’s a freezing cold fluid bath for a rock whose surface temperature’s a lot warmer than it is.
It’s always cooling the planet even when the sun goes down just like when you close your refrigerator, and the light that was warming it because they were close, goes off, the heat the light put into your soda is being washed off by the same cold, atmospheric mix, that washes the entire rest of the world cooler.
You don’t have the sun go down and tell yourself “Thank goodness it got dark, the dropping temperature of the nighttime air can help me stay warmer, longer.”
No matter how many Green House Gassers told you when the light goes off in your refrigerator the cold air washing over it is “helping it stay warm until the light comes back on.”
That’s not real science.
That’s Greenhouse Gas Effect believer pseudo-science.
No, it’s not unbelievably complicated, TB.
It’s a cold bath of thermally conductive coolant compound, nitrogen, and oxygen.
It’s been shot with some phase change refrigerant to augment the circulation, which is water.
That’s how complicated it gets. I was born in 1961 and had that much locked down by the time I was 13 or so,
so yeah I’ll go ahead and claim my general grasp of what makes the atmosphere function like it does has been fully realized since then.
Konrad said the radiative effect drove the system.
You denied it did and said models and texts do, too.
Regardless of who admits it the loss of the heat by the water
causes it to change phase.
This augments upward convective process considerably.
So yeah: your claim that because you don’t recall it “in texts and models” means it’s not important as a driver’s just wrong.
It is a significant contribution to the overall circulatory contribution by water.
Feel free to act like there’s some way for you around that if ya want to I’m not gonna go around and around about it, everybody can see who’s been saying what.
My posts and other peoples’ aren’t appearing in sequence that’s why the conversation’s not fluid just so you, those reading, know.
Matter of fact one of TB’s got lost hence the one above for me, so then I made one responding to the one he made, etc… so conversations get confused looking. Hey – bear up – you could be watching all this go on somehow
via snail mail.
Woah.
A real heat engine does work external to the engine. The so called “heat engine” that is the earth climate system does not. I think therefore it is a miscalculation to call the earth’s climate system a heat engine. All the solar energy that makes it work has to leave the system so the system doesn’t heat up. Any earthly heat engine scenario is, ultimately, latency in that heat removal process meaning the earth heats up. That is the alarmist position. The earth’s climate system is certainly dynamic and moves energy around but I think it falls well short of a classic heat engine/Carnot cycle model.
TB my post from some time back got lost and I see you’re very concerned about being viewed as competent to understand a hot rock,
in a stream of cold nitrogen and oxygen.
You’ve already expressed surprise anyone else knows the atmosphere’s a cold nitrogen/oxygen bath refrigerated by sets of global convection cells exploiting phase change refrigerating action of water.
How in the world you can claim you’ve been around atmospheric energy since 1974 and not have heard that I find that not unusual: I find it just plain bizarre.
I’m not in the field of meteorology.
The reputation of my field is fully intact and unruined by scandalous revelation even the top professionals can’t read a thermometer.
I’m an Electronic Engineer. Specifically the area called Radiation Communications and Controls.
Whenever someone identifies themselves me as part of the field
whose foundations have been rocked by revelations many so called professionals and ‘scientists’
believe in glaringly unreal impossibilities,
I think you should know the fact you admit you’re a meteorologist and yet seem to be so perplexed leads me to think I should just ask you straight out, if you believe in the tenets of Green House Gas Effect ‘warm atmosphere’ pseudo-science.
If you don’t fine but if you do, then you’re going to have to tell others your stories about the magic heater because I’m not going to listen to it.
(1)As a professional claiming understanding of the science of atmospheric energy do you believe possible the illumination of a sphere, spinning in vacuum until it’s temp is stable, being immersed into a cold nitrogen/oxygen bath, causing every heat sensor on the sphere surface showing temperature increase?
Because in the real world: in real science like I practice – that’s impossible and no other field even claims it to be anything but prepostrous. Nevertheless many in climatology/meteorology have been seen saying,
they believe in a magical frigid nitrogen oxygen bath, which makes objects hotter than if they weren’t placed into a frigid bath at all, and hotter even than if they were kept heated, in vacuum.
If you answer yes to this critical question you need to know, your answers had better sound good because you’re immediately in the perpetuum mobim realm.
(2)Do you believe it possible to heat a sphere in vacuum then suspend reflective media (H2O/CO2) between sphere and illumination source, reflecting away 20% energy in, causing sensors on the sphere surface to show more energy to them,
than when there was more energy to them?
Again: an answer of yes immediately marks you as one whose conversation will not make sense if you try to refer to such magical glitterings.
(3)Do you believe it possible to heat a sphere in vacuum then suspend more reflective media
(H2O/CO2) than before such that 25% energy in is reflected away,
raising outputs of energy sensors yet again, so they show more energy in at 75%
than when there was more energy in at 80%?
This one’s an extension of the second but if you believe possible one you believe the other.
=======
In real scientific fields like mine no one believes in this junk; in fact just one “Yes I do!” answer immediately marks you as unable to fully comprehend the chain of events that occur when someone places a rock heated in vacuum, into a stream of cold nitrogen/oxygen compound.
I’ve got a sneaking suspicion you believe in all the above. If that’s not true then by all means let me know but I’ve got a feeling you’re going to be just changing the subject to anything but what I want to talk about.
Whether or not you really grasp what the atmosphere operates as.
If you assure me and everyone reading you don’t believe in magically, algebraically reversed cooling/heating functions then I’ll believe you.
But understanding the shape the fields of climate and meteorology, it’s incumbent on anyone coming into contact with any one of you who says you’re part of the field,
to do an assessment of just how likely you are, to be able to determine which way a thermometer would go if someone epoxies it to a sphere, illuminates it in vacuum,
the plunges into cold nitrogen/oxygen compound, bath.
If your answers are ‘No that’s impossible’ three times, you’re cleared as not having been overcome by magical wishing instead of factual thinking.