Newsbytes: The 'Climate Reparations Game' – Poor Countries Walk Out Of UN Climate Summit

The Price Of Climate Hysteria

West Faces Liability Claims For Extreme Weather Disasters

Representatives of most of the world’s poor countries have walked out of increasingly fractious climate negotiations after the EU, Australia, the US and other developed countries insisted that the question of who should pay compensation for extreme climate events be discussed only after 2015. The orchestrated move by the G77 and China bloc of 132 countries came during talks about “loss and damage” – how countries should respond to climate impacts that are difficult or impossible to adapt to, such as typhoon Haiyan. –John Vidal, The Guardian, 20 November 2013

“The EU understands that the issue is incredibly important for developing countries. But they should be careful about … creating a new institution. This is not [what] this process needs,” said Connie Hedegaard, EU climate commissioner. She ruled out their most important demand, insisting: “We cannot have a system where we have automatic compensation when severe events happen around the world. That is not feasible.” –John Vidal, The Guardian, 20 November 2013

The devastation wreaked by Typhoon Haiyan has become a rallying cry at UN climate talks, where the Philippines and other developing nations are demanding aid guarantees for future damage from global warming. The demand has created another deep fault line in the divided negotiations, for rich nations see it as a potential trap, locking them into a never-ending liability for compensation. More than 130 developing states are now calling for an international “loss and damage” mechanism, bankrolled by wealthy nations, to be embedded in a 2015 global pact on climate change. —Agence France Press, 20 November 2013

Africa faces costs to adapt to the effects of climate change that will rise to $350 billion a year by the 2070s if governments fail to rein in runaway emissions, according to a report today from the UN Environment Program. The costs of adapting Africa’s infrastructure to the rising seas and stronger storms caused by global warming will likely total $7 billion to $15 billion by 2020 and “rise rapidly” thereafter because of ever-higher temperatures, UNEP said today in a report released at UN climate talks in Warsaw. –Alex Morales, Bloomberg 20 November 2013

The IPCC, despite the fact that it has made some missteps in the past, is exactly the sort of institution for providing scientific advice to help evaluate conflicting and uncertain empirical claims. In the case of loss and damage from extreme events, the evidence is extremely strong. There is at present no evidentiary basis to support demands for reparations.

The proposal, advanced by the G77 plus China, that the US and other nations should pay tens or even hundreds of billions of dollars to poor countries that suffer disasters, is a central theme of the climate negotiations now taking place in Warsaw, Poland. Yet partial responsibility for the emergence of a debate on historical reparations lies squarely with President Obama. Despite the scientific evidence to the contrary, President Obama declared in his 2013 State of the Union Address that “Heat waves, droughts, wildfires, floods – all are now more frequent and more intense. We can choose to believe that Superstorm Sandy, and the most severe drought in decades, and the worst wildfires some states have ever seen, were all just a freak coincidence. Or we can choose to believe in the overwhelming judgment of science.” –Roger Pielke Jr., The Guardian, 19 November 2013

Long drawn arguments through two days of almost continuous negotiations broke out over the key decisions that the Warsaw meeting would make. A draft of the decisions brought out on Monday became the new battleground as developed countries tried to remove any difference in the responsibility thrust upon the developing countries from that of the rich nations. –Nitin Sethi, The Hindu, 20 November 2013

20% of the EU’s budget will go towards fighting climate change, climate commissioner Connie Hedegaard announced in Warsaw today. This equates to €180 billion on climate spending between 2014 and 2020. Much of this will be spent on domestic projects, helping with the development of climate-smart agriculture, energy efficiency and the transport sector. Speaking at a press conference in Warsaw today, EU climate commissioner Connie Hedegaard said that if the world is successfully going to tackle climate change “one of the things we need is to change is the whole economic paradigm, including the way we construct our budgets.” She added that Europe is the first region to construct its budget in this way. –Sophie Yeo, Responding to Climate Change, 20 November 2013

Poland’s prime minister Donald Tusk dismissed environment minister Marcin Korolec on Wednesday as part of a government reshuffle. Korolec will be replaced by Maciej Grabowski, former deputy finance minister responsible for preparing shale gas taxation. “It is about radical acceleration of shale gas operations. Mr Korolec will remain the government’s plenipotentiary for the climate negotiations,” Tusk told a news conference. His dismissal raised questions over Poland’s position in the negotiations. —Reuters, 20 November 2013

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Alan Bates

Final cartoon:
and loads and loads of other nasty things:
http://www.numberwatch.co.uk/warmlist.htm
(It also causes more food but that’s of no interest …)

Vince Causey

I would say “hoisted by their own petards.” After years and years of bleating about the dangers of climate change, Western leaders act shocked when asked to pay up.

Contrary to political opinion I believe we are entering a period of global cooling.
The solution to the global cooling? There is no solution. We are at the mercy of the sun, which is entering a 40 or more year cycle of less activity.
We can lessen the impact of the cooling by encouraging CO2 emissions. The increase in CO2 has a very positive effect on the environment, making plants grow better, using less water in the process, and water is often the limiting factor in plant growth. This is already showing up in satellite data proving the planet is getting greener. This is good for both Flora and Fauna. In addition the Spring and Fall storms will be less severe. Oh, and a planet with more vegetation is less prone to erosion. And it staves off starvation for both man and beast. Good news all around.
Some arguments for global cooling:
http://lenbilen.com/2013/11/18/2013-the-year-with-the-fewest-tornadoes-on-record-and-no-major-hurricanes-making-landfall/

Reminds me of the divorce agreement that my ex tried to get me to sign. I was responsible for ALL costs associated with the children’s education (which ignored the college savings plan we had created), with no input as to where and when they went to college!
But I suspect eventually the idiots will actually get the west to sign such a stupid open ended agreement.

So when it is shown that rising carbon dioxide is actually making tropical cyclones less frequent, will the affected countries pay huge sums to the producers of carbon dioxide for all the storms they didn’t get?

jeff 5778

Did they at least get reimbursed for their travel cost?

UnfrozenCavemanMD: Your “Climate Alarmist Bingo” game is great.
http://unfrozencavemanmd.blogspot.com/2013/09/climate-alarmist-bingo.html
Thanks, made me laugh.

Maybe those who walked out are visiting all of the coal-fired this and that, looking for ideas.

Tom J

After hearing about legal liability and reparations concerning AGW I must admit that I have become a convert to the cause. I think the rich should be sued for the damages their lifestyles incur upon the less fortunate. Therefore I propose an immediate class action lawsuit naming the following as plaintiffs: Al Gore, George Clooney, Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert Redford, Nancy Pelosi, Maurice Strong, James Cameron, Daryl Hannah, Michael Moore, John Kerry, Prince Charles, Henry Waxman, Hillary Clinton, James Hanson (remember that 250K check?), Valerie Jarrett, Kennedy (take your pick), John Travolta, David Letterman, Bill Maher, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jerry Brown, Barack Obama…

Stop the Insanity!
No one is responsible for something they aren’t causing.
Can’t blame the countries that are looking for a handout to go somewhere else where they actually do get financial aid in their hands, can we?

Rob

Do “poor nations” accept ANY responsibility for the fact that they have not taken sufficient actions to do the one thing that actually reduces the harms from adverse weather regardless of the cause– ie the construction and maintenance of robust infrastructure??? Most of these nations are much older than the USA. How are we responsible for the fact that their nation is so corrupt that they have not addressed this critical issue.

chris y

One CO2 damage estimate being tossed about this week is that Africa will suffer from $350B per year in climate damage by 2070. But, of course, there is no discussion of CO2 benefits.
By 2050, some estimates have Africa’s population at 2.4B people.
By some estimates, current CO2 levels have helped improve agricultural yields by up to 15%. By 2050, at least a 10% improvement in food crops is likely to be attributable to anthro CO2 emissions.
That means that by 2050, about 240 Million Africans will be fed by anthropogenic CO2 emissions. Using the EPA-blessed value of a human life of $10M, and an average life expectancy of 100 years, the benefits of anthro CO2 emissions in 2050 will be around (240M)*($10M)/(100 years) = $24T per year. That is more than 100 times the estimated costs.
This does not include the energy and material benefits from anthro CO2 emissions.

If they walked out, so be it. Let them stay out. Sort of like my kids holding their breath until they got what they wanted. I could out wait them.
I have no problems with someone who feels guilty about the climate paying reparations as long as they write the check from their personal funds. The trouble is these folks want to reach into others’ pockets for the cash.

AnonyMoose

It’s just a continuation of the financial demands from wealthy countries which have been in the UNFCCC and Kyoto Protocol documents. Some of the wealthy politicians have blamed themselves for bad weather, so everybody else is too glad to demand payments.

RockyRoad

Maybe the West can also share their debt with these impoverished countries.
I understand that combined individual and government debt world-wide is currently around $170 Trillion!
Compare that with the US GDP of ~$17 Trillion, which contributes about one-fourth of the world’s total productivity.
And people wonder why some economists believe the world is on the edge of an imminent (and unavoidable) economic collapse.
Then all nations will be Banana Republics, so we can ALL walk out of forums like this UN Climate thingy.
Can’t wait!

John V. Wright

The EU Commissioners are among the most dangerous people on earth. Over many years of negotiating with flaccid European sovereign governments they have succeeded in removing their actions from democratic oversight. So now, it doesn’t MATTER what the voters want or, indeed, who they elect – because between %0-60% of all laws in sovereign countries are now made by the EU.
The EC is the only body that can put forward a law to be debated by the European Parliament – so democracy has been put at naught and the Commissioners cannot be removed because they are outwith democratic processes. If they say that 20% of the EU budget will be spent on climate change it WILL be spent in this way. By the way, some €8 billion of hard-earned taxpayers money has been ‘mis-spent’ by the EU in the last year according to auditors.
Connie Hedupheraaarse, Baroness Ashton and Manuel Barroso are hideous examples of what can happen when the ordinary man and woman in the street are deliberately sidelined. The political and financial corruption is on a breathtaking scale.
This is why WUWT and other heroic blogs are so important – they consistently report those awkward facts and honest science that make it impossible for career political criminals to have it all their own way.
This gives us hope. And there is more hope – this time, a warning from history. Benito Mussolini and Nicolae Ceausescu both thought they could steamroller over the will of the common people. And look what happened to them.

Jim Cripwell

Surely by this time there is a politician who matters, and who WANTS to believe that CAGW is a hoax. Then this whole nonsense could just disappear..

lurker, passing through laughing

The idea of charging for the weather is beyond folly. The plain reality is that AGW is about money.
Charging for weather is not really very different than medieval witch trials where animals were be tried for being magically responsible for droughts or floodds or bad crops.

Jud

“20% of the EU’s budget will go towards fighting climate change, climate commissioner Connie Hedegaard announced in Warsaw today. This equates to €180 billion on climate spending between 2014 and 2020.”
Am I reading this right?
Surely even the EU isn’t crazy enough to throw away 20% of its overall budget on this?
Actually – it looks like it is…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budget_of_the_European_Union
$180 billion over 6 years ($30 billion per year) is about 20% of an overall annual budget of $150 billion (which is in the ballpark)
I fail to see how any organisation- publicly funded or not – can survive a 20% investment of its income in this insanity.

Karl Popper wrote The Logic of Scientific Discovery that drew a boundary line demarcating science from non-science — and that is ignored. Popper wrote The Open Society and Its Enemies illustrating the effects of tribalism — and that is ignored. Popper wrote The Poverty of Historicism — and that is ignored. Let’em stew in their own juices.

TomRude

An excellent post by Cliff Mass in response to an alarmist article in the Seattle Times on coastal water acidification:
http://cliffmass.blogspot.ca/2013/11/coastal-ocean-acidification-answering.html
“The response of the Seattle Times to my blog was rapid and pointed. They put up a page on their glossy “Sea Change” web portal saying that my blog “ignores the science” (see above for a sample) and refused to allow me to submit a response that would also be available on their site.”
Well Cliff, welcome to the club!

A C Osborn

Jim Cripwell says:
November 20, 2013 at 7:47 am
Surely by this time there is a politician who matters, and who WANTS to believe that CAGW is a hoax. Then this whole nonsense could just disappear..
I agree, I can see western governments instructing their Scientists to suddenly come up with some forgotten/hidden/new science to disprove UN IPCC science that AGW exists or is any way a problem, thus absolving them of any need to compensate nations affected by natural disasters.
Jud says:
November 20, 2013 at 7:54 am
Don’t be silly the eu will just up the taxes of everybody in the eu, they have total control and immunity from their decisions. You only have to look at the decisions/laws they have made over the last ten years to see that.

Love the McCoy political satire cartoon!
Well, they had to leave the grand climate meeting with some kind of resolution. Looks like the resolution is to disagree; thousands of people using expensive travel fees… boooondoggle!

This is a bonanza for the global warmists crowd – yet another reason to feel guilty.
When you’re masochist , you welcome all the whips you can find.

Bernhard Winkler

I am an attorney representing the extinct Neanderthal species. The facts are “irrefutable” that Cro-Magnon was to blame for their extinction. Thus, as all of you are descendants of Cro-Magnon, reperations are due. Summons will be appearing in your mailbox soon.
Sincerely
Thomas Dewey
Dewey, Cheatham and Howe PC

John Peter

I simply hope that they stay out.

Alan the Brit

Well, tough! This is what happens when they want Global Socialism, over-rule & trample upon democracy, with unelected, undemocratic, unaccountable & unsackable EU Commissioners!!!al They started it all with their arrogant self-righteous posturing, just as we have an overstrained benefits system in the UK, the Global Community are looking at the $$$$$ signs, now of course, the corrupt ruling people in developing countries aren’t stupid, they no a scam when they see one & you can’t scam a scammer. They realise they can milk it for all it’s worth – literally!!! As I have said so many times, all this wealth-transfer malarkey will do is tax poor people in rich countries, & dole it out to rich people in poor countries! If memory serves, the 2009 Copenhagen Jamborie failed primarily not due to rich countries failing to agree something or anything, it failed because the poor countries didn’t want to sign up to a verification system that would identify where the money went & what it was spent on, always a sign of skulduggery slight of hand!!!!

DC Cowboy

So this means that if ‘the rain in Spain’ doesn’t fall ‘mainly in the plain’, the US has to give the Spanish money?

Louis Hooffstetter

Bernhard Winkler says:
“I am an attorney representing the extinct Neanderthal species. The facts are “irrefutable” that Cro-Magnon was to blame for their extinction. Thus, as all of you are descendants of Cro-Magnon, reparations are due. Summons will be appearing in your mailbox soon.”
Woo-hoo, my ship has finally come in!
For years my ex has claimed I’m the sole surviving Neanderthal. And that means after Bernie takes his 1/3rd, I get what’s left!

@Louis Hooffstetter – A wife’s accusation are not proof of anything. If it were, a third of the married men on this planet would also be eligible based upon the say-so of their spouses. 😉

DC Cowboy

So let me think. Given India’s and China’s increasing CO2 output, I’d say that in about 10 years they will have put more CO2 into the atmosphere than the developed nations have combined since 1850. At that point I think the ‘undeveloped’ nations should be knocking on India’s and China’s door for ‘climate reparations’. Wonder how China and India will react to that?

Slowly I have feeeling the world becomes absolutely absurd. The capos of the poor, they make poor and which without any doubt want be rich and benefit from the civilization, want the rich to pay them besides for their poor imitations and ethnic knicks-knacks also additional money besides all that stollen international aid by the very capos, a compensation for non-existing anthropogenic warming, moreover arguably for the very existing CO2 fertilization of their land. And the rich even sing their song they help write the absurd text for as long as the paytime approaches too much.
This looks the whole CAGW absurdity ultimately moved into level of its second power.
At least the good Sun maybe inspired by the Gore-effect couldn’t stand it and will continue to give them the cool lesson most likely for rest of their poor lives.

DC Cowboy

I like the part that the Aussies weren’t ‘serious’ because they had the audacity to ‘consume snack food’ while the talks were going on. Presumably the ‘snack food’ was provided at the conference room and the Aussies didn’t bring their own. How dare they?

DC Cowboy

I once said to my boss, “sometimes you think you’re in a Kafka play”. He responded, “And sometimes you know”. I know

Alan Robertson

China: Are the Western leaders really as dumb as they appear?
China’s Buddies: We think so, but let’s devise a test so we can know for sure…

Mike Smith

Fascinating.
Historically, wealthy countries like the USA and Europe have been quite generous when it comes to providing relief for natural disasters that arise in poorer countries. But now guarantees are being demanded.
It seems the entitlement mentality has reached epidemic proportions the world over with nation states demonstrating the same spoiled brat behaviors as the individual freeloaders.

john robertson

It must hurt the poor, to be told than billions of dollars have been successfully stolen from taxpayers by the National Kleptocracies, in their name.
Yet when they hope for some benefit of the fraud they are being used as the face of…”sorry suckers”..
Such is the nature of dishonesty, by using the worlds poor,the environment and “mother” earth to promote theft, public backlash results in distain for any who attempt to raise money or support for any real initiatives on these concerns.
CAGW seems to mean, kill the poor, kill the trees and saturate the deltas.

Stephen Fox

Tom J:
…naming the following as plaintiffs: Al Gore, George Clooney, Leonardo DiCaprio, Robert Redford, Nancy Pelosi, Maurice Strong, James Cameron, Daryl Hannah, Michael Moore, John Kerry, Prince Charles, Henry Waxman, Hillary Clinton, James Hanson (remember that 250K check?), Valerie Jarrett, Kennedy (take your pick), John Travolta, David Letterman, Bill Maher, Arnold Schwarzenegger, Jerry Brown, Barack Obama…
nice list, Bono should be on….

Tim Crome

The politicians in the developed countries have an easy way out. They will soon see that the earth is cooling, it will be impossible to hide, and will then be able to blame the UN and the NGOs for giving them bad advice. It won’t be their fault that they didn’t check the facts carefully enough. As it will then be clear that climate swings are not man made, no money will be due. Budget saved, politicians move on, NGOs look for another way to source funding. Maybe the developing world will then be allowed to borrow money to develop their own hydrocarbons without being forced to use CCS.

Stephen Fox

and that Boomtown Rats bloke, forgotten his name.

Colin

Tom J says:
November 20, 2013 at 7:18 am
Can I join your class-action lawsuit? Oh – and the oil companies for failing to send me their cheque.
Given how much the Warsaw conference has likely cost, maybe add all the politicians from the poor non-developed countrues who have the Swiss bank accounts. Their people are suffering from climate change while they live in climate controlled luxury.

rogerknights

The demand has created another deep fault line in the divided negotiations, for rich nations see it as a potential trap . . . .

Global warping.

Berényi Péter

China should pay reparations first to Europe for damages done by the Little Ice Age, which was either caused by the Song Dynasty industrial revolution or not.

Kelvin Vaughan

But wasn’t China pumping out the most CO2 when the Philippines got hit?

UK Marcus

I do wonder just how many of the Warsaw-Walkouts could answer this simple question:
What % of our atmosphere is CO2?
The is really no way round it – the answer has to be to 2 decimal places…

Steve from Rockwood

We’re not going to give you (poor countries) any money (to fight climate change) and now we’re not going to tell you (that we’re not giving you any money) until after 2015. Or the more politically correct statement that “yes we are going to spend a lot of money on climate change. This money will be spent domestically because we have the responsibility to clean up our own mess first”. Probably not what the poor countries signed up for.

otsar

It must be remembered that what was done as a favor many times will eventually turn into a duty.

Latitude

the highest by population…used to be Kuwait
Now who in their right mind would consider Kuwait a developing country….and actually give them more money?

juan slayton

Tom J, Stephen Fox:
…naming the following as plaintiffs defendants:….
There, fixed it for you. : > )

Gary Hladik

“Poor Countries Walk Out Of UN Climate Summit”
Don’t let the door hitya where the Good Lord splitya!

Jimbo

….how countries should respond to climate impacts that are difficult or impossible to adapt to, such as typhoon Haiyan……

Let me rephrase that for ya.

….how countries should respond to weather impacts that are difficult or impossible to attribute to global warming, such as typhoon Haiyan……

If people want to get paid for weather events then just say so. Why the dishonesty? Hey, first you have to show it was caused by ‘climate change’ / aka Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming. Who is the judge? This is going to be interesting.