From Columbia University
Astronomers find clues to decades-long coronal heating mystery
Drs. Michael Hahn and Daniel Wolf Savin, research scientists at Columbia University’s Astrophysics Laboratory in New York, NY, found evidence that magnetic waves in a polar coronal hole contain enough energy to heat the corona and moreover that they also deposit most of their energy at sufficiently low heights for the heat to spread throughout the corona. The observations help to answer a 70-year-old solar physics conundrum about the unexplained extreme temperature of the Sun’s corona – known as the coronal heating problem.
Hahn and Savin analyzed data from the Extreme Ultraviolet Imaging Spectrometer onboard the Japanese satellite Hinode. They used observations of a polar coronal hole, a region of the Sun where the magnetic fields lines stretch from the solar surface far into interplanetary space. The findings were published on September 30th in the October 20th edition of The Astrophysical Journal.
To understand the coronal heating problem, imagine a flame coming out of an ice cube.
A similar effect occurs on the surface of the Sun. Nuclear fusion in the center of the Sun heats the solar core to 15 million degrees. Moving away from this furnace, by the time one arrives at the surface of the Sun the gas has cooled to a relatively refreshing 6000 degrees. But the temperature of the gas in the corona, above the solar surface, soars back up to over one million degrees. What causes this unexpected temperature increase has puzzled scientists since 1939.
Two dominant theories exist to explain this mystery. One attributes the heating to the loops of magnetic field which stretch across the solar surface and can snap and release energy. Another ascribes the heating to waves emanating from below the solar surface, which carry magnetic energy and deposit it in the corona. Observations show both of these processes continually occur on the Sun. But until now scientists have been unable to determine if either one of these mechanisms releases sufficient energy to heat the corona to such high temperatures.
Hahn and Savin’s recent observations show that magnetic waves are the answer. The advance opens up a realm of further questions; chief among them is what causes the waves to damp. Hahn and Savin are planning new observations to try to address this issue.
This research has been supported by the National Science Foundation Division of Atmospheric and Geospace Sciences through the Solar, Heliospheric and Interplanetary Environment program.
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Papers that explain coronal heating appear from time to time all purporting to be THE answer. This new paper is no exception. It has long been clear that some kind of waves steepening into shocks [because of the rapidly decreasing sensity] were responsible, much like the crack of the bullwhip.
The various pseudo-scientific ‘theories’ put forward by some commenters are just their usual junk which we have debunked enough times that we don’t need to go through the motions any more.
Magnetic waves?
Interesting.
While, again, I don’t think the Electric Universe theory is correct in the main, it’s interesting that — as I said a few years ago here — short shrift was given to electro-magnetic and plasma explanation of solar and other astronomical phenomena.
As others pointed out, these are major areas for mainstream research. Quite rightly. And yet, the degree to which they were important was still underestimated by many.
I think the Electric Universe folks, while mostly going with an alternative theory as a business so they could sell books and conferences to a niche market of followers, still did some favours to us by pointing out that there’s lots more to learn about the universe in terms of the extremely prevalent and long-distance effects of electro-magnetism and plasma.
Yep. Doesn’t mean it is untrue, however.
This is not a logical argument. It definitely does not justify the word “must” or the certain sentence at the end of it. What you have here is called a hypothesis, for which there is much missing evidence.
Christoph Dollis says:
“This Oliver Manuel…”
I know nothing of this, or of OK Manuel, but with such serious allegations, let’s hang him now. We can have the trial later.
However, I did notice this little item:
The case is currently set to begin on September 27. Published in The Missouri Miner, 8-31-06
So please explain to us what happened. When was the trial? Your link used seven year old information. Last I heard, all charges but one were dropped. So, when was the trial? What was the outcome? You gratuitously started the ad hom, now you need to explain the outcome.
Manuel may be a scientific wacko [I suspect he is], but posting such an inflammatory blog article has nothing whatever to do with science, and everything to do with character assassination.
What, you automatically believe the kids? Maybe they are all telling the truth. But maybe they hate Dad for other reasons — and a trial is the place to sort out the truth. [I just heard from an 84-year old friend, whose 59-year old daughter convinced him to put her name on the checking and savings account. And then promptly cleaned him out of every penny.]
Now, do we wait for a trial? Was there ever a trial?? Or do you propose we just hang him now?
Not necessarily. I have only vaguely heard of him before and didn’t remember the name. I was asking if that’s the same Oliver Manuel, which it is.
He was convicted of attempted sodomy of an 11-year old. The remaining charges had to be stayed due to statutes of limitations.
Of course, none of this means his scientific theory is wrong, but to answer your question, there was a trial.
Of note, this blog’s owner had this to say about him:
Anyway, I don’t want to spend more time on Oliver Manuel the man. I glanced at a site maintained in his name briefly. His idea is that the Sun, through differing magnetic field strengths, sorts different elements at differing regions within the Sun, diffusing them.
Meh.
I answered, dbstealey. My comment is caught up in moderation. Short answer, he was convicted. Long answer, most charges were dropped due to statutes of limitations. Longer answer, of course that doesn’t mean his hypothesis is wrong, but this blog’s owner clearly thinks so as he banned Oliver Manuel for carpet bombing threads with his idea.
Christoph Dollis@6:13.
Very classy act you got there.
Do you have anything to contribute to the science being discussed or are you here to threadjack?
Christoph says:
“…he was convicted.”
Thanks for that info. I was unable to find anything with a google search.
dbstealey, if you want to you can search “Prof. Oliver Manuel” verbatim in quotes. I can’t direct link as it will cause my comment to enter moderation.
I agree that doesn’t mean he’s wrong on science, but another commenter was positing that Manuel was the one guy who had solar physics right and everyone else needed to catch up to him. That made me curious about Manuel and I did a google search with the best of intentions.
I have some problems with his solar model based on a cursory glance, but that’s another story.
Christoph Dollis says:
October 16, 2013 at 6:22 pm
Magnetic waves?
Well spotted. U made me smile, nearly laugh. It’s a succinct question but I don’t think you know why! Magnetic waves don’t exist without an associated electric wave, hence ‘electromagnetic waves’. Trust the conventional astronomers to use term ” magnetic wave ” neglecting the electric aspect! It’s pure comedy! No-one who has an education in electromagnetism can take them seriously.
I’m sure I spent at least a few hundred hours, probably more, reading up on the Electric Universe hypothesis, meemoe. I understand what you’re getting at.
Magnetic waves means magnetic oscillations, basically. You don’t need huge intergalactic electron streams to accomplish this sorts of things. Material moving within the Sun can do it, electron flow within the Sun could do it, etc.
*these
the eLectric sun people are all Out in force today.
I Find them quite annoying and I Wish they’d go away.
eLectric fields and currents are quite Easily detected.
No such field is there and so the Theory is rejected.
Once upon a time when nuclear Fusion was unknown,
it was Tricky to explain the source of Power for the sun.
and So was born a theory of magNificent simplicity
the Sun was like a lightbulb all lit Up by electricity
Huge electric currents flowing Darkly in the ether,
were Said to power up the sun by Arcing through its plasma.
and Since nobody way back then had Travelled into space
we Could imagine giant currents flowing through the place.
but Now we know of fusion and we Know it powers the sun,
we have Counted the neutrinos, and the numbers match our sums.
and we Know a giant current isn’t There between the stars,
since our Astronauts have been there and they Didn’t come back charred.
Einsteins relativity made the Ether obsolete,
and our Theories of everything are getting more complete,
there Is no need today to think of the Electric Sun
as a Theory of science its course is very clearly run
Great poem!
I love how you threw in the crazy-Type random capitalization.
“Moving charges create magnetic fields. Magnetic fields make charges move. That is how electromagnetism works. If you have a number of moving charges (plasma) and they are heating up, you can bet there is a magnetic field that is causing it.”
Electric fields cause charges to move. Moving charges then create magnetic fields. Magnetic fields deflect moving charges, but it’s the electric field which causes the charge movement.
As for the ‘magnetic field lines’ in the coronal hole(s) – no such physical thing. Magnetic field lines are similar to topographic contour lines – artefacts to aid visualisation. However as these magnetic “strings” are observed and measured, they can thus be only one thing – Birkeland currents, often erroneously also described as magnetic flux tubes.
So the coronal holes are the discharge sites of galaxy-sized electric currents.
Waitaminnit! You’ve got a responsibility to clear this up now. Is this the same person or two different people with the same name?
I can’t believe you even went there. The only way that what you did would make any sense would be if you were 100% positive ( and even Six Sigma doesn’t cut it for such a serious criminal charge ).
I’m aware of this person {███} that comments at Curry and Goddard and other places, and formerly here at WUWT. I don’t know enough about his Sun theory to speak to it myself, it may be off-the-wall but that doesn’t require this level of response. But you really should now spend ALL of your available time to determine if they are one and the same. Either that or get the mods to wipe this thread clean of that name just to be safe, before Wayback, and the Google and Bing bots enshrine it forever. The Mods can wipe this one too.
Seriously, since you are apparently using your own name here and on Facebook, it shouldn’t take a rocket scientist ( pardon the pun ) to drop your name in Google and turn up something about another person with your own name ( I wouldn’t do it though ). You also have may have exposed yourself to potential legal headaches I fear.
(Reply: The offending ad-hom post has been deleted. ~ mod.)
the corona is almost a vacuum…as is the upper atmosphere of the earth…what is the temperature of a vacuum in the shade ??
They are saying magnetic waves Hmmm Perhaps pulsations would be a better term, if they have pulses through a plasma they will create mega electricity. Induction heating on a grand scale.
if the temperature of the corona is a million degrees…it should be radiating X-Rays or Gamma rays..
I have no idea why you couldn’t follow along. It’s the same person. I linked to the official record that proves the conviction.
I didn’t even know about the conviction until I researched the person when another commenter talked about that person as being the saviour of solar physics or something, the one person who got it right, who everyone else should try to catch up to.
It was of some interest to note that that person had been accused of the most egregious crimes by his offspring and subsequently convicted, with most charges being dropped due to statutes of limitations.
Further, it wasn’t an ad hominem attack — I took pains to note that that didn’t mean his scientific ideas are wrong — although WUWT’s owner did, in a 2010 post, call the theory he was pushing “nutty”, and explained why he banned him from commenting because of his constant pushing of it.
I really don’t know how you get there from here.
Anyhow, while I’ve believed for a long time that mainstream climate scientists were overestimating Earth’s sensitivity to atmospheric CO2 and way underplaying various natural factors including astronomical, there are times when I ask myself if perhaps I’ve made some error in reasoning.
Those times are almost exclusively when I realise how unscientific are many people who’ve reached similar conclusions as I have regarding climate. My consolation is that the average person who believes the (somewhat manufactured) consensus regarding AGW probably has a lot of irrational stuff flowing through their noggin too.
Although I’m not even sure that’s true. It might be just wishful thinking on my part because we seem to have a disproportionate number of Creationists, Electric Universe proponents (full disclosure: I flirted with those ideas myself while investigating them), etc.
Even yesterday I was saying on this thread that the Electric Universe proponents may have done us a favour — or at least coincidentally have been in accord with the scientists looking into these aspects of nature — by pointing out that plasma and electro-magnetic phenomena are pretty important and haven’t been looked into enough. And what do you know? This post is about a possible magnetic-wave explanation for a superheated plasma problem.
So I’m not hating on the whole idea. It’s very elegant and simple, aesthetically pleasing. But there is no good evidence for there being intergalactic electricity currents powering the Sun.
That Earth’s sensitivity to CO2 has been overestimated? Yeah, there’s tons of evidence for that, in IPCC AR5 even.
Or intragalactic electricity currents, for that matter.
Attention Anthony/Moderators:
Item 1:
Item 2:
The “oebele” linked site is ‘synthetic mind’ and the “comment” is a reworded parroting.
And the online acronym finder came up with “enumerable bios” as the best two-word possibility for the unscrambled name, although I teased out “mobile user bane” as a great three-word combo.
Is it a sign of how popular WUWT is that comment robots are sent here for detection testing?
This post is another fine example of how to divert inquiring minds away from a very rich subject.
@kadaka 9.03am, WTF????
On the topic at hand,Heat created in the solar corona, if a magnetic field is being “cut” by a conducting material, voltages will be induced, electric currents will flow wherever a circuit exists, and magnetic fields in opposition to the” inducer” will arise.
Does the solar plasma conduct electricity?
The Earth effects alone are somewhat mind boggling, as each electromagnetic effect will cause others to arise, interact,induce others, different materials conduct at different phase states, the voltage induced across a material can cause it to become a conduit.
Taking the sun as the source of electromagnetic energy, not to imply that to be true, but as a start, for this is a chicken/egg business.
With a constant sun, earth crossing the magnetic fields of sol will induce an electrical motive force in any closed linear path on the planet.
Currents will flow where they can, creating magnetic effects opposing the solar magnetic field, each other and causing heat.
Lacking a perfect conductor any currents flowing on earth will generate heat.
Current squared X resistance being the simplest expression of this.
Now the planet rotates, probably as a direct effect of these electromagnetic effects, the “molten core” of this planet has physically moving conductive material, the magnetic fields of earth must change as the core material moves,on the surface, salt water and wet earth both conduct.
Point here is the attempts to model these interactions get bogged down very quickly by this complexity and the behaviour is reminiscent of turbulence in hydraulic systems.
Now add the fluctuations of the sun.
I am very happy to see satellites actually measuring the solar activity, better late than never.
If we humans bother, we might attempt to measure the magnetic fields of the planet, first the strong effect, then the interactions.
But do we have the technology to discern core effects,crust effects and surface effects from each other?
Sorry for the rant but this was such a wasted thread.