My personal path to Catastrophic AGW skepticism

The Road
Image by Trey Ratcliff via Flickr

Note: if the name below is familiar to you it is because of this article from Monday. This will be a sticky post for a day or two, new stories will appear below this one– Anthony

Guest essay by Jonathan Abbott

Please allow me to recount the details of my personal path to CAGW scepticism. I have never previously found myself at odds with the scientific mainstream and at times it feels quite odd. Perhaps others here have similar experiences? I am curious to know how fellow-readers came to their current views. If some have gone from genuine scepticism to accepting CAGW, I would find that especially fascinating.

My own story begins at school in England in the early 80s. Between playing with Bunsen burners and iron filings, I remember being told that some scientists predicted that we would soon enter a new ice age. This sounded quite exciting but I never really thought it would happen; I was too young then to have seen any significant change in the world around me and it all seemed rather far-fetched. A nuclear war seemed far more likely. Soon enough the whole scare melted away.

I grew up into a graduate engineer with an interest in most branches of science but especially physics. I read the usual books by Sagan, Feynman and later Dawkins (whose The Ancestor’s Tale I simply can’t recommend highly enough). I also dipped into philosophy via Bertrand Russell. I like to think this reading helped build upon the basic capabilities for critical thinking my education had provided.

I suppose it was in the early 90s that I first noticed predictions of global warming and the associated dire warnings of calamities to come. Some of these emanated from the Met Office and so I knew should be treated with a pinch of salt but other sources included NASA, which I then personally still very much respected; despite the space shuttle evidently being the wrong concept poorly executed, their basic scientific expertise seemed unquestionable. In general I was looking forward to the warmer climate predicted for the UK, and assumed that the overall effects for the globe wouldn’t necessarily all be bad.

Now, being English I knew all about the vagaries of the weather, but the warnings about CAGW always seemed to be made in the most certain terms. Was it really possible to predict the climate so assuredly? The global climate must be an extremely complex system, and very chaotic. I had recently heard about financial institutions that were spending vast sums of money and picking the very best maths and programming graduates, but still were unable to predict the movements of financial markets with any confidence. Predicting changes to the climate must be at least as difficult, surely? I bet myself climate scientists weren’t being recruited with the sort of signing-on bonuses dangled by Wall Street. I also thought back to the ice age scare, which was not presented as an absolute certainty. Why the unequivocal certainty now that we would only see warming, and to dangerous levels? It all started to sound implausible.

The whole thing also seemed uncertain on the simple grounds of common sense. Could mankind really force such a fundamental change in our environment, and so quickly? I understood that ice ages could come and go with extreme rapidity, and that following the scare of my childhood, no one seriously claimed to be able to predict them. So in terms of previous natural variability, CAGW was demonstrably minor in scale. It seemed obvious that if natural variability suddenly switched to a period of cooling, there would be no CAGW no matter what the effect of mankind on the atmosphere. Even more fundamentally, how could anyone really be certain that the warming then taking place wasn’t just natural variability anyway? The reports I read assured me it wasn’t, but rarely in enough detail to allow me to decide whether I agreed with the data or not.

The other thing that really got me thinking was seeing the sort of people that would appear on television, proselyting about the coming tragedy that it would imminently become too late to prevent. Whether from charities, pressure groups or the UN, I knew I had heard their strident and political use of language, and their determination to be part of the Great Crusade to Save the World before. These were the CND campaigners, class war agitators and useful fools for communism in a new guise. I suddenly realised that after the end of the Cold War, rather than slinking off in embarrassed fashion to do something useful, they had latched onto a new cause. The suggested remedies I heard them espouse were always socialist in approach, requiring the installation of supra-national bodies, always taking a top-down approach and furiously spending other peoples’ money. They were clearly eager participants in an endless bureaucratic jamboree.

Now don’t get me wrong: a scientific theory is correct or not regardless of who supports it. But recognising the most vocal proponents of CAGW for what they were set alarm bells ringing, and made me want to investigate further. I had always been somewhat sympathetic towards Friends of the Earth but much less so towards Greenpeace, by that time obviously a front for luddite socialism and basically shamanistic in outlook. I had deep personal concerns about the environment, having seen reports of terrible industrial pollution in developing countries and the former Eastern Bloc. I had also sailed across the Atlantic twice in a small yacht, and seen for myself floating plastic debris hundreds of miles from land. (I also saw an ‘eco warrior’ yacht in Antigua, lived on by a crusading hippy and daubed with environmental slogans. It was poorly maintained and leaked far more oil into the water than any other boat present.)

So I was quite passionate about the environment, but my focus was on keeping it clean and safe for all life to live in. I wanted people to stop overfishing and manage fish stocks sensibly, I wanted agricultural land to produce the best long-term yields possible, to provide enough food without encroaching on wilderness and wild spaces. I wanted people everywhere to have clean air to breathe and water to drink. I had hoped that the CAGW crusade would somehow also lead to more urgent progress in fighting pollution, and the other environmental issues I cared about. If anything it did the reverse. Why the absolute fixation on reducing CO2 emissions, why was it taken for granted that this was the only way to proceed? Where was the public debate about the balance between prevention and mitigation? The CAGW protagonists always came up with solutions that were anti-industrial, anti-development and always, always required more public money. Where was the encouragement for inventors and entrepreneurs to discover and develop new technologies? And most of all, why oh why not spend some of the huge sums of money thrown at CO2 instead on getting effective pollution controls enacted in developing countries?

It had become quite clear to me that the BBC and similar media organisations would never even discuss whether the science underpinning CAGW was really robust. It had simply become a truism. An occasional doubting voice would be offered a sliver of airtime in the interests of supposed impartiality, but a proponent of CAGW would always be allowed the (much longer) last word. But, if NASA kept having to adjust their course calculations as the Voyager probes entered the outer reaches of the solar system (an utterly trivial problem compared to the complexities of the global climate), how could the science possibly be settled as claimed? Surely the great joy of science is in admitting ignorance, in taking a finely honed theory and sharpening it still further, or even better in realising a fundamental mistake and stepping aside onto a new path? The claimed certainty itself seemed unscientific.

Then in 2007 I saw a trailer on television for the forthcoming documentary The Great Global Warming Swindle. I watched it excitedly, for here finally were people publicly addressing the science and the data, but drawing alternative conclusions to the mainstream. There was none of the usual hand-waving and appeals to trust the experts, who magically seemed to be the only doubt-free scientists in recorded history. The backlash against the program told its own story too, being mainly outraged appeals to authority and conscience.

Having recently become a regular user of the internet, I started digging around looking for more information and so, soon after he started it, I found Warren Meyer’s excellent web site climate-skeptic.com. Oh, the joy! Here were links to data I could see and evaluate myself; here was critical dissection of reports and papers accepted elsewhere without demur. From there, I moved onto WUWT, Bishop Hill, Climate Audit and all the other sites that have become part of my daily round of the internet whenever I have access. However late to the party compared with many regulars at WUWT, I could now see fully both sides of the argument.

When the Climategate emails were released, some further scales fell from my eyes. I had hitherto assumed that most of the most prominent scientists supporting CAGW were well intentioned but wrong, akin to those opposing the theory of continental drift. I have taken part in many lengthy email exchanges concerning technically complex projects, and instantly recognised familiar methods used by those playing the political and bureaucratic game, for whom the data is infinitely malleable in order to reach a pre-determined goal. I had fought against this kind of factual distortion myself.

Now at this point, I am sure some (perhaps many?) readers are thinking, ‘Great, an inside view of how someone becomes a believer in a conspiracy theory, perhaps I’ll base a research paper on this idiot’. My response is that like most people I have at times stumbled upon the real conspiracy theory nuts lurking on the internet. But on WUWT and other CAGW-sceptic sites criticism of the position of the website founder isn’t just tolerated but often encouraged. ‘Prove us wrong! Please! It would be fascinating!’ There are many articles and views published on WUWT that I treat with suspicion, or even downright disagree with, but it is all stimulating and usually well argued. Plus, I am an experienced professional engineer and know what real science looks like, and when people are misusing it as a smokescreen. Neil Armstrong was a great man, and most certainly did land on the moon. Right or wrong, WUWT is a site that considers real scientific issues.

So I now find myself wondering where we go from here. The global climate will continue to change, as it has always done, and although I tend to expect some cooling I am pretty agnostic about it. Nature will assuredly do its own thing. The CAGW scare is in the process of burning out, but I do not expect an outright or imminent collapse. I hope to see the deliberate manipulators of data punished, but doubt very much it will ever come to that. Whatever happens next, it will undoubtedly be interesting, and stimulate much discussion and widely varying viewpoints. This is good news, because it means that we are back to doing science.

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chris y
July 25, 2013 12:56 pm

Steve McIntyre and Ross McKitrick’s dismantling of the Hockey Stick opened my eyes to climate science. Before that I basically ignored the whole field and was agnostic on CACC. A link at Steve’s site took me to Revkin’s Dot Earth and the assorted comments therein cemented my suspicions that climate change science has been political theater and a funding raison d’etre since the late 1980’s.
It has become a pimple on the ass of science.

Michael J. Dunn
July 25, 2013 1:01 pm

I’m also a professional engineer, with origins a little earlier. I was there in the 70s when Global Cooling was the scare, and also when the Nuclear Winter hypothesis was being advanced by Carl Sagan, et al. You may recall that this was probably the first high-profile public policy debate supported by an atmos-pheric physics model. Of course, the Nuclear Winter hypothesis was conclusively falsified by the events of the Gulf War I, so I marked that as a data point. My schooling was in applied physics, so my graduate years involved the problem of setting up and solving the radiative transfer equation. My later work in advanced weapons brought me around to that subject in connection with target effects by high-energy lasers. Given the Global Cooling and Nuclear Winter duds, I approached the whole subject of Global Warming with a wary eye, also being warned by the manner and identity of the proponents. But it was somewhere in 2006-2007 when the game was revealed. My union had arranged a showing of Al Gore’s “An Inconvenient Truth,” which at one juncture showed a vast matrix of pictures of climate-induced, untimely-extinct animal life, calculated to inspire audience awe and somberness. I couldn’t restrain a loud bark of laughter, for among the purported victims was the coelacanth, a notorious SURVIVAL, not an extinction. Look, Al Gore is well-connected; this could have been caught. There is no credible excuse for this sort of flagrant error, nor any excuse for the Warmist crowd to welcome such a scientific boob to their vanguard. So, it immediately meant to me that truth was incidental to policy, and policy is all that mattered. It is really not complex if you simply connect the dots.
The basic physics continue to rule. (1) Our equilibrium temperature is controlled by the ratio of the ter-restrial absorption and emission coefficients integrated across the solar spectrum. (2) If there was only a positive feedback dynamic, we would be already roasting like Thanksgiving turkeys; nature doesn’t know how to go nuts in a gradual way. (3) The CO2 concentration of the atmosphere is determined by the equilibrium balance between the atmosphere and the seawater; it literally doesn’t matter what mankind does (not only it doesn’t, but it can’t). Seawater will outgas or absorb in accordance with what is needed to maintain the Equilibrium (Le Chatlier’s Principle). (4) Not to mention that all the quantitative predictions are plainly at variance with reality. These people are both mentally unhinged and very dangerous to civilization. We fail to recognize this “inconvenient truth” at our peril.

Mark Bofill
July 25, 2013 1:01 pm

alan neil ditchfield says:

July 25, 2013 at 12:49 pm
Believers in CAGW are astonished when the y find that engineers don’t believe in scientists. They accept and use Euclidean geometry because its propositions stand demonstrated, not because they believe in Euclid. There is a gulf of understanding between believers and those who practice science.

Yes. I’ve always suspected that engineers feel this way because it’s our professional butts that are on the line when we’re wrong, and believing things we can’t prove generally doesn’t seem to be a justification in our fields for incompetence.
But what do I know.

Manfred
July 25, 2013 1:04 pm

The stridor of political promotion, the vulgar speed of institutionalisation with which the Ministry-of- -We-Know-Best seized the socioploitical and pseudo-moral leverage to impose taxation, the endless encouragement of guilt, the global temperature rise at the beck and call of a trace gas, the “science,” the paleoscience, the models, Climategate, the funding, the hate (tobacco, conspriacy, big oil, big corp etc etc etc), UN Agenda 21…all these made the sensitivities imposed by a Jesuit education reverberate deafeningly.
One of the key red flags was the outrageous speed with which the normally staid and turgid institutions galloped to embrace the meme in a manner hugely out of character. That alone – surely – would have most independently minded people frantically digging for the truth.

Ed_B
July 25, 2013 1:05 pm

My turn came about 2008 after watchiing a “”debate” with Richard Lindzen and Gavin Schmidt on opposing panels. I was SHOCKED that RL presented data, facts, and GS presented ad hominems!

Mark Hladik
July 25, 2013 1:06 pm

Well written, and a delight to read.

July 25, 2013 1:06 pm

“Everyone who has followed the Climategate email dump has seen the documented evidence of fraud and malfeasance, from threatening journals for publishing scientific papers that disputed the runaway global warming narrative, to the outright fabrication of published papers for the purpose of propagandizing climate science, to actually getting scientists fired for disputing theis ideology. ”
Sadly the first person to read all the mails ( 1, 2 and working on 3) and publish a book on them(CG1), disagrees with your assessment. Folks ought to be more skeptical about what they think they know about climate scientists. Last I looked the science on what is in men’s hearts is not settled.
WRT the article. I dont see a single scientific argument in it. There are many scientific arguments to be a skeptic. None were presented. Finally, never trust a personal account of how someone came to believe or disbelieve.

clipe
July 25, 2013 1:06 pm

There’s that word “(im)plausible” popping up again. So what are we discussing?
The theory of man-made implausibility put forward by implausibilists expecting us to, implausibly, buy the implausibleness?
I didn’t buy the implausibleness of man-made Global Cooling as a teenager during the 1970’s.

hhhhggggtttt
July 25, 2013 1:08 pm

I was a believer in global warming, I even argued for it. Then I read IPCC 4 – and as a dual Ph.D. the thing read like a National Geographic article, and the citations were to WWF rags and peer reviewed lit. Then I started to look for the real data, stumbleb on climate4you and WUWT and the rest is history.
The emperor has no clothes.

July 25, 2013 1:09 pm

Michael Craig says at July 25, 2013 at 12:50 pm

“Why should I make the data available to you, when your aim is to try and find something wrong with it.”
When I found out somebody with a scientific background said that, I was amazed. When I found out it was Phil Jones and that he was a major player in mainstream AGW science, I needed to sit down and have a drink.

Yeah. I forgot that. It really offended me.
There was a moral imperative to engage in the debate since that point. That was the spur that pushed me off my bottom.
The contempt for any ultimate truth pulled me on to the blogs.

July 25, 2013 1:14 pm

I’ve never been skeptical of Global cooling or Global warming, I had a very intelligent form teacher who was also a geologists and astronomer who informed (us) his students immediately on hearing reports that the earth was going to warm, he let us know about the Ice age scare of the 70’s and taught us how these cycles of warming and cooling are all natural events.
What I am skeptical of is the claim that global warming and global cooling events are artificial and man made, It’s an absurdity that natural climatic events have morphed into Anthropogenic Global Warming, Climate Change, Global weirding, Anthropogenic weather disappointment. etc..
What truth is there in the science has been hijacked and exaggerated, morphed and twisted into purified concentrated alarmist nonsense. Regardless of political persuasions or beliefs it takes a special kind of moron to use these deceitful distortions of science as a social/political tool and it takes a complete fool to believe them.

Neo
July 25, 2013 1:21 pm

… instantly recognised familiar methods used by those playing the political and bureaucratic game, for whom the data is infinitely malleable in order to reach a pre-determined goal
I once, early in my career, asked a PhD statistician ..
“What the “golden position,”the dream job for a statistician was ?
He immediately replied … “working for the Tobacco Institute
Every time I see one of these papers where they tortured tha data to get the “proper” results
I have to wonder if these folks ever worked at the Tobacco Institute.

Auto
July 25, 2013 1:25 pm

Magic.
A bit older than you, educated in England in the 1960s and earliest ’70s, before going to sea. forty years in shipping, now. Coming Ice Ages – yeah – and the Jethro Tull album ‘Stormwatch’ – look at the lyrics of ‘Something’s On the Move’ –
http://www.metrolyrics.com/somethings-on-the-move-lyrics-jethro-tull.html
Had done a lot with weather at primary and secondary school – and at sea. As a Brit, like you, Jonathan, I am aware that weather can be j o l l y variable. Still seek to encourage my ships to become Voluntary Observing Ships.
You have written my story beautifully – albeit I have a remembrance of the winter of ’63, and perhaps more foreign travel.
Once you saw the practitioners of CAGW, the BS detectors inflated to a post-Cretaceous maximum.
Many thanks,
Auto

Mariwarcwm
July 25, 2013 1:31 pm

Thank you Mr Abbott. I was vaguely aware of the CAGW theory, and mildly worried until I saw the graph that showed that CO2 warming is strongly logarithmic. All of the warming is done well within the first 100 parts per million. CO2 could go to 800 ppm or higher and there would be no further warming, just thriving agriculture. It was all a scam.
I find it endlessly fascinating. It has made me look at everything, religion, cholesterol, statins, water consumption even, with a sceptical eye. I see the pattern of blind belief repeated elsewhere, acceptance without question of given statements. I now read the fine print to try to work out the real story.
I hope that given the state of the sun we aren’t heading for another Little Ice Age. I have no confidence that the subsequent crisis in food and energy supplies would be handled well.

Latitude
July 25, 2013 1:32 pm

..it never passed the sniff test

ombzhch
July 25, 2013 1:33 pm

It simply isn’t possible to be a an honest graduate or Doktor in Math, Science or Engineering and believe in the Alarmist Cr.., from Sagan’s bad radiative physics, to data munging, familiar to us all wh did science practicum, to the lies and daft computer code of Climate Gate you have a huge pre-cooked counter-argument.
A quick look at the proponents shows it as all a Marxist conspiracy from day one. Europe and the US must find the major protagonists criminally liable for the unprecented squandering of Human resources.
MFG, omb

Lester Via
July 25, 2013 1:33 pm

Jonathan, like you and many other skeptics, I was employed as an engineer when first exposed to the CAGW theory. It was James Hansen’s Scientific American article published about 20 years ago. Knowing a little about the atmospheric greenhouse effect at the time, I knew something was wrong when Hansen never even mentioned water vapor and blamed everything on CO2. Additionally, even the graphical representation of the correlation between temperature and CO2 indicated that temperature changes preceded the CO2 changes. This was particularly evident about 110,000 years ago when the temperature dropped thousands of years prior to the drop in atmospheric CO2. I promptly let my subscription to this magazine expire a month or so later as, in my opinion, the editors of this magazine are blind and don’t belong in any reputable scientific publication.
After retirement a few years back, I purchased my own copy of AR4 to look at the evidence for AGW. Although, on the surface it appeared to be a nicely done document, there were so many holes in the logic, I didn’t see how it could be considered a reputable scientific document. To make matters worse, every time I wanted to check out a referenced statement that appeared suspicious, I would have to pay for a copy of the referenced article – typically around $35. There are more than 600 documents referenced in the chapter on paleoclimate alone.
I searched the internet for as much info as I could find and eventually came upon WUWT and found that I am most certainly not alone in my skepticism. A whole new world of sensible people (along with a few seemingly nut cases) suddenly opened up.
I find the fact that many skeptics seem to be both engineers and political conservatives very interesting and have long suspected that conservative and liberal minds learn by different processes. Liberals seem to be good at the rote memorization of things and seem to believe anything written by someone they perceive to be an expert. Most lawyers and medical doctors seem exceptionally good at this process. Conversely, many conservatives have difficulty in purely rote memorization but readily learn anything that has a rational and logical argument behind it because they typically see beauty in it that makes an impression in their mind. Later, if they forget what they learned, they are able to derive it by repeating the logical process needed to get to it. This logical approach to learning seems to be a particularly valuable trait for a creative engineer.

July 25, 2013 1:35 pm

Steven Mosher,
As usual, in your comment above you are being far too vague. I bought your book. We have had a conversation about it. I also bought Montford’s book, and like many others here I have read reams of documents about Climategate, and about the shenanigans that go on behind the scenes WRT inflating Phil Jones’ CV, and Mann threatening journals, etc. A WUWT keyword search for “climategate” will produce a mountain of documentation.
Rather than comb through the thousands of emails to prove a point, here is a good place to start for anyone interested. There are many other Climategate resources available. My main point was to refute what jai mitchell had written when he claimed that the Climategate emails did not show any underhanded behavior. They certainly did, as you should know better than most.

July 25, 2013 1:36 pm

I have studied Science from the age of 7 or so (60 years now). I became a skeptic when I read the first sentence declaring man generated CO2 as the cause of global warming. Everyone except the greatest of fools knows there are hundreds of H2O molecules for every one CO2… sometimes thousands…

Dizzy ringo
July 25, 2013 1:36 pm

I was educated in the days when education was real. We learned about Eric the Red setting a settlement in Greenland. So when Mann and his friends said there was no medieval warming period I started researching.
Sadly my community is one where policy is being planned on the basis of AGW is true – we have some fanatical converts to the true religion unfortunately.

John West
July 25, 2013 1:38 pm

Top Ten Reasons I became a Skeptic of Catastrophic Anthropogenic Climate Change:
1) The scale of the purported effects is out of proportion with the claimed cause.
The science tells us that doubling CO2 in the atmosphere will increase the GHE (Greenhouse Effect) by 3.7 Watts per square meter, considering the GHE is on average about 333 Watts per square meter and delivers about a 30 degree Celsius temperature gain on average such that they’re claiming that about a 1% change in GHE causes a 10% change in temperature gain. Add to that the knowledge of the relationship between CO2 concentration and heat flux; being non-linear such that each additional portion of CO2 added to the atmosphere will result in a smaller increase in heat flux than the previous portion. Therefore an over simplified linear estimate of 33 degrees Celsius / 333 Watts per square meter x 3.7 Watts per square meter = 0.37 degrees Celsius should be an overestimation of the warming but is in comparison to the claimed response an order of magnitude less than the catastrophists central estimate of 3 degrees Celsius.
2) Lack of Evidence.
Instrumental record is too short and proxies too inaccurate to draw conclusions at the certainty level being claimed.
3) What evidence there is for CAGW is coincidental.
Correlation does not imply causation.
“Consistent with”, “may”, “might” and “possibly” doesn’t exactly instill confidence in the necessity of the proscribed solutions.
4) Lack of predictive value of the model (as in way of thinking).
The model predicts pronounced tropical tropospheric hot spot. (Little found.)
The model predicts stratospheric cooling. (Stopped circa 1995.)
The model predicts global average temperature rise of 0.2 degrees per decade. (Didn’t happen this decade, maybe next.)
5) Lack of the model explaining the complete set of available data.
Sure the temp/CO2 correlation looks pretty convincing if you just look at a particular set of years, but if you start looking at 100,000 or 1,000,000 or longer timeframes it doesn’t look so convincing.
6) Lack of overall understanding. Ocean? Clouds?
Our scientific understanding of the specific roles and responses of various climate components is woefully incomplete.
7) History
There’s a substantial body of evidence to suggest the LIA and MWP among other climate swings are more pronounced and extensive than some admit.
8) Engagement in Zohnerism.
Even supposedly impartial agencies will show temperature graphs starting in 1800’s without disclosing the widespread cool LIA climate event or show picture of glaciers circa 1979 vs. circa 2000 without disclosing the cool 1970’s decade which had many scientists warning of a coming ice age due to the burning of fossil fuels.
9) Groupthink / Thug management (h/t: Pointman)
Scientists at the core of the consensus avoid debate, sabotage critics from behind the scenes, and engage in censorship.
10) Behavior inconsistent with reasonable conclusions based on solid evidence.
Advocates behavior inconsistent with actually believing there’s a problem
Top Ten (insufficient and logically fallacious) reasons given to convince me to be a believer in CAGW:
1. Well understood science predicts warming from the addition of CO2 into the atmosphere and burning fossil fuels definitely emits CO2 into the atmosphere.
2. CO2 has been increasing in the atmosphere simultaneously with temperature.
3. CO2 and temperature correlate over geologic timescales.
4. There has been noticeable warming around the globe evidenced by retreating glaciers and the like.
5. Many climatologists claim they cannot think of any other cause for the warming other than anthropogenic CO2.
6. Many climatologists claim there is a consensus of opinion that recent warming is anthropogenic and potentially dangerous going forward with current fossil fuel usage generated emission rates.
7. Many government agencies such as the EPA, NASA, and NOAA seem to have adopted the consensus view.
8. Scientific organizations have adopted the consensus view.
9. Polar bears are cute and endangered by Global Warming.
10. People are the scourge of the planet.

taxed
July 25, 2013 1:39 pm

As long as the Polar jet is making swings to the north and south then neither will there be runaway warming or a ice age in the NH. lf one word would sum up the type of climate we are likely to get.
Then that word would be “Changeable”,
For most living in the NH it will mean we will end up getting alittle bit of everything.

jim
July 25, 2013 1:49 pm

Reblogged this on pdx transport.

clipe
July 25, 2013 1:50 pm

Jonathan Abbott says:
July 25, 2013 at 12:54 pm
I feel like I just stood up at an AA meeting.

That made me laugh hard. Thanks.
With me I think it was when my dad taught me the decimal system when I was about 8 or 9 yrs old. Dividing 1×3 taught me about infinity and how small I was in the grand scheme of things.

Mike Vince
July 25, 2013 1:52 pm

You forgot that along with the ice age we were meant to run out of oil by 1970, 1980, 1990…