Curry and Lomborg in house committee today – webcast live

UPDATE: Dr. Judith Curry’s transcript of her verbal testimaony is online here: http://judithcurry.com/2013/04/25/congressional-hearing-on-policy-relevant-climate-issues-in-context/

Skeptics outnumber alarmists at House of Representatives session today

Subcommittee on Environment Hearing – Policy Relevant Climate Issues in Context

Subcommittee on Environment | 2318 Rayburn House Office Building Washington, D.C. 20515 | Apr 25, 2013 10:00am

Policy Relevant Climate Issues in Context

Hearing Charter (PDF)

Purpose

On Thursday, April 25, 2013, (10AM ET) the Subcommittee on Environment will hold a hearing entitled Policy Relevant Climate Issues in Context. The purpose of the hearing is to provide Members a high level overview of the most important scientific, technical, and economic factors that should guide climate-related decision-making this Congress. Specifically, this hearing will examine the current understanding of key areas of climate science necessary to inform decision-making on potential mitigation options.

Background

Climate science—and climate-related regulatory actions informed by such science—are among the most complex and controversial issues facing policymakers. After several years of relatively quiet legislative and regulatory activity within Congress and the Executive Branch, climate policy is again receiving renewed attention.

Since winning re-election in November, 2012, President Obama has increasingly signaled his intention to propose significant, new executive actions and regulatory measures aimed at addressing climate concerns. At his inaugural address in January, the President stated:

We will respond to the threat of climate change, knowing that the failure to do so would betray our children and future generations. Some may still deny the overwhelming judgment of science, but none can avoid the devastating impact of raging fires and crippling drought and more powerful storms.

The President elaborated on this at last month’s State of the Union address, and indicated he would direct his Cabinet to propose specific actions for his consideration. Specifically, he stated:

But for the sake of our children and our future, we must do more to combat climate change. Yes, it’s true that no single event makes a trend. But the fact is, the 12 hottest years on record have all come in the last 15. Heat waves, droughts, wildfires, and floods – all are now more frequent and intense. We can choose to believe that Superstorm Sandy, and the most severe drought in decades, and the worst wildfires some states have ever seen were all just a freak coincidence. Or we can choose to believe in the overwhelming judgment of science – and act before it’s too late.

The good news is we can make meaningful progress on this issue while driving strong economic growth. I urge this Congress to pursue a bipartisan, market-based solution to climate change, like the one John McCain and Joe Lieberman worked on together a few years ago. But if Congress won’t act soon to protect future generations, I will. I will direct my Cabinet to come up with executive actions we can take, now and in the future, to reduce pollution, prepare our communities for the consequences of climate change, and speed the transition to more sustainable sources of energy.

While it is unclear what specific form the President’s proposals will take, it has been widely reported that new Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regulations restricting greenhouse gas emissions from existing power plant facilities will serve as a centerpiece of the President’s climate efforts. In March 2012, EPA proposed greenhouse gas regulations for new power plants.1 While this rule has yet to be finalized, the Agency’s Regulatory Impact Analysis that accompanied this proposal emphasized some of the key challenges associated with incorporating uncertain scientific, technological, and economic information into such regulatory decisions:

When attempting to assess the incremental economic impacts of carbon dioxide emissions, the analyst faces a number of serious challenges. A recent report from the National Academies of Science (NRC 2009) points out that any assessment will suffer from uncertainty, speculation, and lack of information about (1) future emissions of greenhouse gases, (2) the effects of past and future emissions on the climate system, (3) the impact of changes in climate on the physical and biological environment, and (4) the translation of these environmental impacts into economic damages. As a result, any effort to quantify and monetize the harms associated with climate change will raise serious questions of science, economics, and ethics and should be viewed as provisional.2

This characterization is indicative of the likely challenges associated with future climate-driven regulatory proposals as well. Therefore, it is likely that Congressional review and response of such proposals will be heavily informed by the understanding of a combination of science, technological feasibility, and value judgments such as economic tradeoffs and opportunity costs.

1 http://yosemite.epa.gov/opa/admpress.nsf/79c090e81f0578738525781f0043619b/9b4e8033d7e641d9852579ce005ae957!OpenDocument

2 http://www.epa.gov/ttnecas1/regdata/RIAs/egughgnspsproposalria0326.pdf

The purpose of this hearing is to examine key factors that will guide these decisions, particularly as they relate to the understanding of climate change-related risks facing the country, associated probabilities and uncertainties, and the costs and benefits of various mitigation proposals.

Witnesses

Dr. Judith Curry, Professor, School of Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, Georgia Institute of Technology

Dr. William Chameides, Dean and Professor, Nicholas School of the Environment, Duke University

Dr. Bjørn Lomborg, President, Copenhagen Consensus Center

==============================================================

LIVE WEBCAST LINK:

http://mfile.akamai.com/65778/live/reflector:39667.asx?bkup=39949&prop=n

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CodeTech
April 25, 2013 5:08 am

Whenever I read the words that dimwit read, I am highly disturbed at the gullibility of some.
“Superstorm Sandy” was just another storm. It was only “super” in the eyes of a generation that doesn’t remember the last one and failed to maintain preparedness. Same with the drought… worst in decades? Well, that means there were worse decades ago. Fires? What fires? What forests? Who has completely mismanaged forestry in the Americas, and is now seeing some of the results?
Overwhelming judgment of science? What a joke. The OVERWHELMING majority of actual Scientists wouldn’t be caught dead making the ludicrous and faulty claims that the handful of “climate scientists” make on a regular basis, and most have taken large steps to be away from that train wreck. At least cosmologists knew their predictions would take millennia to be proven or not.
It’s all so transparent. So ridiculous. And I’ll be there to say “I told them so but they wouldn’t listen”.

johnmarshall
April 25, 2013 5:32 am

Obama’s problem is that he surrounded himself with useless advisers like Holdren and Hansen. Obama’s science knowledge is minimal to non existent. The UK has the same problem with 95% of our politicians.

Editor
April 25, 2013 5:33 am

Dr. William Chameides blogs at TheGreenGrok. His influence cab possibly be gauged by the number of comments on his posts (WUWT and Judith Curry average hundreds of comments per post):
1 Apr 2013 – 2 comments,
4 Apr – 1.
5 Apr – 0.
8 Apr – 2.
10 Apr – 0.
12 Apr – 0.
15 Apr – 0.
16 Apr – 0.
19 Apr – 0.
24 Apr – 0.
Since he is a one-eyed warmist, who cites the likes of Mann and Marcott, hopefully he will have as little influence at this hearing.
[More accurately, WUWT has received more than 18,500 comments since passing 1,000,000 replies right at the 1st of April, 2013. Mod]

commieBob
April 25, 2013 6:07 am

“Skeptics outnumber alarmists at House of Representatives session today”
Neither Curry of Lomborg is really a skeptic. Nor are they alarmists.
I think Curry will say that, while elevated CO2 levels cause a bit of warming, it is nothing to worry about and will almost certainly not be catastrophic. In an interview she recently repeated what she said last year: “Based upon the background knowledge that we have, the threat does not seem to be an existential one on the time scale of the 21st century, even in its most alarming incarnation.”
link
I expect that Lomborg will take a similar tack. He recently said: “Yes, global warming is real and mostly man-made, … The solution is not to make fossil fuels so expensive that nobody wants them because that will never work but to make green energy so cheap that eventually everybody wants it.” link
Both Curry and Lomborg will present a nuanced message and my biggest concern is that they will confuse the committee members.

Ryan
April 25, 2013 6:16 am

I would like to see Curry and Lomborg answer the following:
What level of warming is acceptable?
What level of emissions(in CO2 eq) would push us beyond that level?
The third guest would have a fairly steady answer for both.

April 25, 2013 6:16 am

commieBob says:
April 25, 2013 at 6:07 am
“Both Curry and Lomborg will present a nuanced message and my biggest concern is that they will confuse the committee members.”
Agreed – to get their message across, it will have to be a carefully crafted so that the committee can truly understand as I suspect few if any have any scientific training .
I do hope they can convey the message about climate sensitivity well, as I think if the committee understands that in conjunction with the “stalling” in warming over the last 16 years, that they surely will conclude that no radical actions are needed. In fact, the opposite is needed.

Chuck Nolan
April 25, 2013 6:20 am

From Scientific American : http://www.scientificamerican.com/page.cfm?section=about-green-grok
TheGreenGrok and Duke University’s Nicholas School of the Environment
What Is TheGreenGrok.com?

TheGreenGrok.com is a blog about science and sustainability written by Duke University’s Dr. Bill Chameides, dean of the Nicholas School of the Environment.”
What Is Duke’s Nicholas School?
The Nicholas School of the Environment at Duke University is a world-renowned graduate and professional school for the interdisciplinary study of the environment. Its mission is to foster knowledge and train leaders of consequence for a sustainable future. Our educational paradigm aims to understand the interplay between the Earth and its environment and the human institutions that govern our lives and use that understanding to advance and spread the environmental ethic.
With roughly 100 faculty, the Nicholas School engages with scientists, governments, industry leaders, conservation practitioners, and communities globally to address critical issues such as climate change, energy, water quality, ecosystem conservation, and human and environmental health”
———————————————————————-
I wonder why he was chosen to testify?
This could be interesting.
Does he like the idea of more research money for climate change?
Is he there to ask for some grant money?
cn

Pamela Gray
April 25, 2013 6:26 am

Politicians hear what they want to hear: Blah, blah, blah, blah, climate change, blah, blah, blah, warming, blah, blah, blah…
If Judith says any of those words, the rest will be ignored. More to the point, questions will be asked for the sole purpose of eliciting those words from her mouth. She will be a puppet on a string and won’t even realize it.

JohnB
April 25, 2013 6:54 am

CommieBob says Lomberg said:
“Yes, global warming is real and mostly man-made, … The solution is not to make fossil fuels so expensive that nobody wants them because that will never work but /Bto make green energy so cheap that eventually everybody wants it/B.”
make green energy so cheap … ?
And that will work?
That’s the very policy (e.g.,PTC) we need to fight, because Government can’t mandate cheap
JohnB

April 25, 2013 6:56 am

To appropriate the words of a classic American Liberal, CAGW is not a theory “to be tossed aside lightly. It should be thrown with great force.”

van Loon
April 25, 2013 7:05 am

Climate Change? We cannot do anything about climate change. Do they mean man-made climate change? Then they should say it.

herkimer
April 25, 2013 7:10 am

Global warming has paused now for some 16 years and the pattern of the last 10 years has been actually one of slight cooling. The best forecasts [UK Met Office] call for the same for the next 5 years, bringing the total pause to 20 years by 2017. Some climate scientists have been predicting typical long term cooling phase which may last well into the 2030/2040 era like the pauses between 1880-1910 and 1940-1970. These pauses typically last for 30-40 years and not just 10-15 years as IPCC has been suggesting. What is behind this pause? It would appear that the current cooler cycle may be due to the following key climate factors:
DECLINING SOLAR CYCLE
Solar sunspot activity is at the lowest level since 1900. During the decades of 1880, 1890 and 1900 the average sunspot numbers [NSO] were 45.2, 55.1 and 42.6. During 2000 decade they were 49.6. During the last 10 years the average sunspot number was 29.3. Low solar sunspot numbers seem to correlate with low global surface temperatures especially when ocean and solar cycles are both in sync and declining. Low solar cycles typically come in threes, so it is possible that low sunspot number may exist for several decades into the future
DECLINING SST
Sea Surface Temperatures in both the Northern and Southern Hemispheres have been flat for 16 years as measured by HADSST2 and have actually been declining slightly during the last 10 year. Land temperatures typically follow ocean surface temperatures which follow solar heating cycles. The oceans release this heat to the atmosphere in lagged timing from the sun cycle.
WINTER AO GOING MOSTLY NEGATIVE
The JFM Seasonal standardized AO Index has been declining since 1989 and is more frequently now negative allowing more cold Arctic air to drift further south
DECLINE IN STRONG EL NINOS
During previous global cool cycles like1880-1910 and 1940-1980 there was typically only one climate altering El Nino per decade. During the warm phases, there were 2
MORE FREQUENT SUDDEN STRATOAPHERIC WARMING. [SSW]
SSW used to happen every other year, but recently these are stronger, are happening more frequently and are earlier in the winter. These events are caused by sudden warming of the stratosphere air which is compressed and sinks down causing a mound of air at higher pressure to develop around the pole which in turn forces the cold Arctic air outward from the poles. This cold air can split the polar vortex and these vortices can send cold Arctic air over Europe and North America and change the direction of winter winds to come from the north east as was the case in Europe.
ROSSBY WAVES AND JET STREAM CHANGES
More recently low amplitude zonal waves [jet streams] are being replaced by larger amplitude meridonal waves. These jet streams swing further south pushing more cold Arctic air toward the equator. These waves used to move from west to east in relatively short periods [6weeeks] but recently they have stayed longer and are more often blocked by adjacent Hi’s
MORE SEVERE WEATHER
When there is more global cooling taking place, there will be a greater incidence of warm and cold fronts clashing at the jet stream inter face regions bringing a higher probability of bigger and more frequent storms. There will be more severe and sometime extreme weather with the cooling globe. The best example of this is the increase in tornadoes during the spring and fall in United States where cold and warm fronts clash more often due to the existence of still cold fronts from the west. It has nothing to do with global warming.
CLIMATE MODELS
Climate models based on rising co2 levels seem to be somewhat flawed and a comparison of 44 climate model predictions and observed satellite readings of global lower troposphere temperatures illustrates the problem. Not a single model seemed to match observed global temperature trends. It would be quite wrong in my opinion to base any public energy and environmental policy on this doubtful science.
Climate models based on CO2 levels seem to be seriously flawed and headed in the wrong direction as compared to UAH and RSS satellite observable global temperature trend. Why any government would spend tax payer’s money during these difficult financial times with serious budget deficits to fight non existing global warming which is based on this flawed science is hard to comprehend.

Alvin
April 25, 2013 7:12 am

The rep from Oregon is already repeating the “2012 is the warmest”, and is even throwing out ocean acidification for her scare tactics.

Mark Bofill
April 25, 2013 7:28 am

Her testimony looked pretty good to me; thumbs up JC! Lots of good stuff in there although nothing earth shattering. My particular favorite from the conclusion reads:

‘The role of scientists should not be to develop political will to act by hiding or simplifying the uncertainties, either explicitly or implicitly, behind a negotiated consensus.’

Take that, followers of the late Dr. Stephen Schneider!
It must be neat to be able to stand up in a House subcommittee and talk about ‘messy wickedness’. 🙂

ConTrari
April 25, 2013 8:21 am

If it is correct to label Curry and Lomborg as lukewarmers, then it is a good thing that they are witnesses in this hearing. In the present political climate, it is easier to redirect alarmist policy by measured statements, which do not challenge the current gospel too much. Too blunt skeptics could ruffle the feathers of moderate members of Congress by some “inconvenient truths”.

Jim G
April 25, 2013 8:22 am

For: Leif Svalgaard
Hey, Leif, here is a good partial list of exogenous variables that can explain why EVERY low solar activity period is not neccesarily a low surface temperature period. Multicolinearity of inter-correlated variables will do that, particularly when lag times may be invovled. It does not mean that low solar activity does not generally result in lower temperatures. See: herkimer says: April 25, 2013 at 7:10 am . Many more variables can be added to this list, some inter-correlated, some not, like volcanism.

Sun Spot
April 25, 2013 8:23 am

Dr. William Chameides is not adverse to telling uncertainty whoppers.

Richard M
April 25, 2013 8:30 am

I only saw the fast few minutes, but … Dr. William Chameides was often less than completely honest in his testimony. When asked about temperatures being as warm during the MWP he came back with temperatures are the hottest in a 1000 years. Well duh, that was the MWP. While not technically a lie he was clearly trying to give a false impression to the committee. He then brought up a very regional area to claim unprecedented warming (glacier in Peru) while not admitting the GISP2 (and other regional proxies) shows the MWP was warmer. Once again trying to imply a false sense of certainty in unprecedented warming.
He should be castigated for doing that. He brings dishonor to Duke University by stooping to such a level. This is the type of one-sided propaganda we see from warmists all the time. His lack of scientific balance was so obvious and so blatant that he should be called out by real scientists.

John B
April 25, 2013 8:34 am

There’s no question who looked the least impressive witness of the three at that hearing. Calling ….. Wm Chameides. Not willing to answer straight question with straight answer, very evasive on some. Made me laugh when he claimed he was not familiar with the IPCC paragraph on extreme event attribution that was read to him.

April 25, 2013 8:44 am

commieBob:
At April 25, 2013 at 6:07 am you say

I think Curry will say that, while elevated CO2 levels cause a bit of warming, it is nothing to worry about and will almost certainly not be catastrophic. In an interview she recently repeated what she said last year: “Based upon the background knowledge that we have, the threat does not seem to be an existential one on the time scale of the 21st century, even in its most alarming incarnation.”

Subsequently, several comments have suggested that Curry is a “lukewarmer”. This surprises me because your suggestion of what she would say is exactly what I would say but in different words. So, how is she a “lukewarmer”?
Nobody has ever called me a “lukewarmer”. I get called “den**r”, spawn of the devil, and the like.
Richard

Lance Wallace
April 25, 2013 8:56 am

Just finished listening to the hearing. Lomborg IMO stole the show, with excellent hard-hitting graphics. Judith was reserved and quiet and represented a fine image of careful scientific caution. Chameides went a bit off the rails in his opening statement, calling out Judith on some of her testimony, and, curiously, seemed to take credit for getting her her position at Georgia Tech! If so, he’ll be in trouble with his fellow warmers.

Latimer Alder
April 25, 2013 9:12 am

I thought Chameides was a shifty and untrustworthy sort of cove…..he could barely conceal his conviction that the elected reps. were halfwits.
And that will have gone down very badly with them.

April 25, 2013 9:23 am

This is what going green without considering the law of unintended consequences can do for you:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
News on CBC this morning, April 25, 2013
Spain’s National Statistics Institute says the country’s unemployment rate shot up to a record 27.2 per cent in the first quarter of 2013.
The agency said Thursday the number of people unemployed rose by 237,400 people in the first three months of the year compared to the previous quarter, taking the total to 6.2 million.
Spain is in recession again as it struggles to deal with the collapse of its once-booming real estate sector in 2008.
The conservative government has launched a series of financial and labour reforms and pursued a raft of spending cuts and tax increases that have managed to reduce a swollen deficit. Even so, the country had the highest budget deficit among the 17 European Union countries that use the euro in 2012.
© The Associated Press, 2013

Theo Goodwin
April 25, 2013 9:38 am

It seems to me that a label such as “lukewarmer” is irrelevant in the case of Dr. Curry. She is an excellent critic of IPCC attribution studies. She created the “Uncertainty Monster” and presented addresses on it at mainstream climate science venues. She sticks to the science.
Questioners might have elicited a policy response from her this morning but she prefers to address the uncertainty in the science rather than policy options. She was at a disadvantage in this panel. She would like to discuss the science but she was the only person in the room who can discuss science at her level.

DayHay
April 25, 2013 9:39 am

http://i.imgur.com/s19MOMd.jpg
JC, you just needed this on a huge sign board behind you titled: “Just where the hell do YOU think we are headed?” or as I like to call it “Marcott my ass”

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