Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
I’ve mentioned before that a thunderstorm functions as a natural refrigeration system. I’d like to explain in a bit more detail what I mean by that. However, let me start by explaining my credentials as regards my knowledge of refrigeration.
The simplest explanation of my refrigeration credentials is that I have none at all. As with many trades I’ve pursued, I have no training in refrigeration. But the challenge was simple. When I was 37, a good friend of mine and I had taken the job of installing a blast freezer system in a 60′ (18m) steel sailboat in Fiji called the Askoy. I was sure we could do it … despite the fact that at that point in my life, neither of us had ever taken apart a refrigerator, or could even explain how a refrigerator worked.
Figure 1. The Challenge SOURCE
But we had two months before the job started, and one rule of thumb has never failed me—Do Your Homework …
I was laughing about this with my friend this afternoon. We’ve been partners in various oceanic ventures and adventures over the last forty years. He reminded me that I’d bought my refrigeration gauges and my Freon sniffer at the local flea market. I’d forgotten that detail. He was to do the metalwork, the piping and the soldering and such, while I had to design the system and charge it and get it working. We discussed our ignorance at the time, and he said “I never had any doubt that you’d do the refrigeration part.” I laughed and said “I never had any doubt that you’d do the metalwork part.”
I learned refrigeration the old-fashioned way. I taught myself.
WARNING—this post is a 50/50 mixture of science and autobiography, call it autosciography. If that makes your brain explode, DO NOT continue reading.
I went to a technical bookstore in San Francisco and bought a college refrigeration textbook, and a refrigeration technicians textbook. I started with the college refrigeration text, just like I was in college again. I read every word of every chapter, and then I answered all of the questions at the end of each chapter. I went back on the ones I missed until I understood them as well. At the end of the first month I could knowledgeably discuss superheat and the difference between the kinds of Freon and other refrigerants and how different types of refrigeration systems and heat pumps worked and what the units called “tons” measure in refrigeration (the cooling power equivalent to the melting of 2,000 pounds of ice starting at 0°C in 24 hours).
Then once I understood the theory backwards and forwards, I got out my refrigeration gauges and my sniffer, and I found some old refrigeration systems and I started working through the refrigeration technicians manual. By the end of the second month I could test and charge and repair a system, fine tune the setup, discharge the system and recapture the Freon, tear it down and build it again, whatever you wanted. I was ready to go. (Yes, there are other refrigerants besides Freon. But in 1981, for the kind of refrigeration I was doing, it was all Freon.)
So that’s how I learned about refrigeration, and my friend did the same regarding the metalworking and silver soldering and all the rest of the knowledge he needed. And after we finished the installation of the blast freezer, I subsequently made good money at various times diagnosing and repairing marine refrigeration systems. I’ll return to the question of my credentials and the lack thereof in a bit. But first, for those who like me couldn’t explain how a refrigeration system works, here’s my explanation.
A refrigerator cools things in exactly the same way that sweating cools your body—by evaporation. Of course instead of using water like your body does, a refrigerator uses Freon, or one of the modern refrigerants. But the principle is exactly the same regardless of the “working fluid”. You use an evaporating liquid to remove the heat from whatever you want to cool down.
Now, if the working fluid is actually boiling, you get the maximum evaporation. So for a particular refrigeration application, you might pick a liquid (one of the various Freons in the old days, now other liquids) that boils at say ten degrees below freezing.
Of course, your body uses up the water that cools us when we sweat. We don’t try to recapture that water, it condenses somewhere else.
But we don’t want to waste valuable Freon. We’d rather condense it back to a liquid. One way to do that, of course, is to pipe the vapor to some cold place, where it naturally condenses back into a liquid. In The Inventions of Daedalus, the eponymous author propounds another of his crack-brained but plausible schemes, this one for air conditioning Nairobi by running the vapor up to the top of Kilimanjaro, where it would condense and run back down by gravity. Here’s my sketch of his plan:
Figure 2. Daedalus’s plan for air-conditioning Nairobi (click to expand). The working fluid boils at say 5°C (41°F). The liquid return pipe is insulated so the fluid doesn’t boil on the return path to the evaporator.
The working fluid boils in the evaporator on the lower left. The evaporator is like a car radiator, and a fan blows through it, and the resulting cool air is used to air condition Nairobi.
The vapor then moves up to the top of Kilimanjaro, where a condenser (also looks like a car radiator) has icy natural winds blowing through it to condense the liquid. This liquid then flows by gravity down an insulated tube and back to Nairobi to start the cycle again. And like most of Daedalus’s inventions, there’s no reason you couldn’t actually build that.
Now, that’s the basic principle underlying how a refrigeration system works. A liquid turns to a vapor, absorbing heat in the process. This is called “latent heat”, because it doesn’t increase the temperature.
That vapor, containing the latent heat, is piped away from the object you want to refrigerate. Then somewhere else, it’s condensed back to a liquid, and in the process releasing the latent heat as sensible heat. Finally, the liquid is returned to the original location, to repeat the cycle.
Note the importance of the two phase changes in the process—evaporation (picking up latent heat) and condensation (releasing that latent heat elsewhere as sensible heat). Those two processes, evaporation and condensation, are the central part of the whole process of refrigeration. It’s just a very efficient way to move heat from A to B.
Now, consider Figure 3, which shows what a tropical thunderstorm is doing, and how it functions as a refrigeration system.
Down at the surface, the water is evaporating and refrigerating the surface. The thunderstorm forms over a local hot spot. The evaporation cools the surface, and the energy is transferred to the air as latent heat. The hot, moisture-laden air moves upwards.
Up at an elevation above the “lifting condensation level”, which is the elevation of the base of the clouds where condensation begins, the water condenses into larger and larger droplets. The latent heat is released back into the air as sensible heat. The water then falls as rain, to complete the cycle.
Figure 3. Natural refrigeration system. Just as in a domestic refrigerator, a working fluid (in this case water) is evaporated to remove heat from the surface, the area to be refrigerated. After rising up into the thunderstorm, the water is condensed, releasing the latent heat as sensible heat.
As you can see, this is the same system that Daedalus proposes to air condition Nairobi. It uses the same principle as your home refrigerator. Evaporation cools what you want cooled, and somewhere else, you condense the working fluid and get rid of the heat.
Now, let me start by making one thing crystal clear.
THIS IS NOT A FEEDBACK!!!
Instead, it is a natural refrigeration system, capable of cooling the surface well below its starting temperature. Treating it mathematically as a feedback is a huge mistake. It is nothing of the sort. It is a threshold-based emergent phenomenon which actively refrigerates the surface.
[UPDATE: In the comments, people have been confused by this question of feedbacks. Obviously I was not clear enough. When I say it is not a feedback, I mean it is not a simple linear feedback of the only kind considered by the IPCC. Instead, it is a control system which utilizes feedbacks of a host of kinds to maintain a constant temperature. -w.]
Not only that, but it selectively refrigerates the hot spots, forming just where it is needed. As a result, it is very difficult to represent by averages. This is especially true because its response time is minutes to hours, not days. The hot spot doesn’t really have time to get going before it is refrigerated into submission.
It gets better, much better. You see, up until now, I’ve just described the parts of the system that correspond exactly to manmade refrigeration systems. Let me point to some very clever wrinkles that thunderstorms use to increase their refrigeration capacities and to cool the surface more efficiently and more widely.
• Wind
The thunderstorm generates wind at its base, and evaporation is proportional to wind speed. If the wind underneath the storm cloud increases from say 5 knots to 20 knots, or say from 2 m/sec to 8 m/sec, evaporation goes up by a factor of 20 / 5 = four-fold. In other words, the self-generated wind alone multiplies the strength of the refrigeration by about four.
In addition, the wind increases the evaporative area by blowing water into the air as spray and fine droplets. These have a large surface area and evaporate rapidly. This also increases the strength of the refrigeration.
• Dual fuel
Thunderstorms run on both temperature and moisture. Moist air is lighter than dry air. The four-fold increase in evaporation yields a proportional increase in the vertical speed of the air moving through the thunderstorm, because it is much lighter. It also keeps the thunderstorm from dying out if the temperature drops, because once the wind starts, the moist air is light enough to keep the thunderstorm going until the surface temperature falls to well below the temperature required for initiation.
• Direct surface refrigeration by cold working fluid.
In most manmade refrigerators, evaporation is the only mechanism for cooling the objects to be refrigerated. The working fluid is not used directly to cool down what is being refrigerated. Instead, it’s brought to the evaporator in an insulated tube and immediately evaporated to carry away the heat.
But in addition to the evaporation, a thunderstorm also delivers large quantities of chilled water directly to the surface. This is a separate and distinct refrigeration mechanism, one not generally utilized in manmade refrigerators.
• Refrigeration via entrained wind.
You’d expect that the rain would warm as it fell through the warmer lower atmosphere, and to some extent it does. But it also entrains the air around it as it is falling, carrying it along. This sets up a vertical entrained wind that falls right along with the rain. That wind is constantly cooled as it falls by the evaporation of the rain that it is mixed in with. And since the rain and the chilled air fall together as a package from aloft, they both arrive at the surface much cooler than the surroundings. Often when standing out on the apartment deck in the Solomon Islands at night, the first sign of the approach of a thunderstorm would be the arrival of the cool entrained wind.
The entrained wind falls vertically with the rain, but unlike the rain it’s not absorbed by the surface. So it blows out cold air horizontally in all directions from the base of the rainfall. This blast of cool air is quite distinct. It smells of the upper atmosphere where it originated, and it is very refreshing on a hot night. It is also a separate and distinct refrigeration mechanism.
• Re-use of heat of condensation.
This one is sometimes done in manmade installations. In the thunderstorm, the heat is used to drive and sustain the building of the “tower”, the tall vertical part of the cumulonimbus cloud. This in turn increases the speed of the upward flow through the core of the thunderstorm, and allows for the possibility of another phase change.
• Increased Radiative Heat Loss
Each thunderstorm is surrounded by an area of descending dry air. The moisture has been removed from the air, first in the form of rain and then in large thunderstorms in the form of ice. Because little water vapor remains, much more of the upwelling surface longwave (thermal) radiation will escape to space.
• Additional phase change
It would certainly be possible for humans to design a system using a second phase change in the working fluid. Right now, our refrigeration systems utilize the phase change from gas to liquid and back again. But there’s another possibility, to go from gas to liquid to solid and back again.
The advantage is that you can move more heat that way. Instead of just the heat from one phase change, you could move the heat from two phase changes as latent heat.
So why don’t humans utilize both phase changes for extra efficiency? Well, we haven’t figured out an easy way to get the solid working fluid from wherever it was frozen, back to the evaporator to start the story over. I mean, we could freeze the Freon after it’s condensed into a liquid … but then how do we move solid Freon back to the evaporator to continue the cycle? With wheelbarrows?
Nature doesn’t mind these small problems, however. Nature continues to cool the water past the point where it condenses, and all the way to where it freezes … and then it uses gravity to return the solid working fluid back to the surface as frozen water. I can only bow my head in awe, what a clever setup. At the surface the ice will first melt (cooling the surface) and then warm up to the local temperature (further cooling the surface) and then evaporate to continue the cycle.
• Inter-storm coupling.
When the need for surface refrigeration gets high (anomalously warm surface temperatures), a new emergent pattern appears. The thunderstorms start to align themselves in long rows, called “squall lines”. These in turn have long canyons of descending air between them. This is a type of Rayleigh-Bénard circulation that greatly increases the throughput, and thus the refrigeration capacity, of the mass of thunderstorms.
CONCLUSIONS
• At all times and all around the planet, thunderstorms are constantly refrigerating tropical hot spots to prevent the globe from overheating. This constant refrigeration is what controls the surface temperature of the planet, not CO2. If this refrigeration system failed even for a week, we’d fry.
• The thunderstorm refrigeration system utilizes the same familiar principles of manmade refrigeration—evaporation removes the heat from what you want to refrigerate, and condensation gets rid of the heat somewhere else.
• In addition, the thunderstorm refrigeration system utilizes some unfamiliar processes, all of which combine to greatly increase the refrigeration capacity of a given thunderstorm.
• The refrigeration is selective, responding to local temperature—the hot spots get refrigerated until they confess, and the cold spots get nothing.
• The current generation of climate models deal with feedbacks. This is nothing of the sort. It is an emergent mobile self-sustaining refrigeration system, not a feedback of any kind. It needs to be analyzed as such, and it is very difficult to do so by means of parameters or averages.
• The system responds to temperature. It is not driven by the forcing, nor does it respond to areas of high forcing. Instead, it actively responds to surface temperatures. The formation of a local hot spot is quickly followed by the formation of a corresponding refrigeration system to cool the hot spot down.
• The system is extremely sensitive to the formation of local hot spots. It puts a refrigeration unit right to work on the problem. On the other hand, it is indifferent as to the cause of the hot spot. It chills them all the same.
• In addition, the surface temperature of the system is relatively insensitive to the number of hot spots—you just get more or less refrigerators to match the number of hot spots, and that keeps the temperatures within bounds. And this in turn means that the surface temperature of the system is relatively insensitive to the forcing.
• As a result, the system doesn’t care about CO2, or about small variations in the sun, or about the effect of volcanoes. The threshold for refrigerator formation is based on surface temperature, not on CO2. If there are more hot spots, the system simply makes more refrigerators, whether the hot spots are from CO2 or from a clearing of the aerosols or from a 5% increase in sun strength over a billion years.
• In such a system, the idea of “climate sensitivity” doesn’t go anywhere or mean anything. The system is relatively insensitive to the forcing, not sensitive. The system responds to hot spots by building refrigerators … and as a result the surface temperature is maintained despite variations in the forcing. The problem is not that the relationship is non-linear. In a thermostatically governed system such as the climate there often may be no relation all between forcing and temperature.
• This is a relatively simplified (but very accurate) explanation only one of a host of interlocking emergent phenomena that maintain the surface temperature within ± half a degree in a hundred years. Yes, there are lots of details I’ve left out, and manmade refrigeration systems have other valves, bells and whistles … if you’re interested lets discuss them, but please don’t bust me for leaving them out.
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That’s what I wanted to say about refrigerators and thunderstorms. When you are analyzing our climate, which contains powerful emergent refrigeration systems like thunderstorms, you can’t analyze them as a feedback. It’s very difficult to parameterize them. You have to get out your refrigeration tables and analyze them as what they are, huge natural refrigeration units, and very efficient ones at that. My takeaway message is this:
The surface temperature of our amazing planet is set and maintained by the constant refrigeration of the surface hot spots as they form, not by the forcing, whether from CO2 or anything else.
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To close, earlier I said I’d return to the question of my credentials for talking about refrigeration. Well, before we went to Fiji my friend and I researched the available marine refrigeration systems. We went and talked to the people freezing the product and saw what they used. Harlow, the owner of the boat, wanted to be able to purchase and process what they call “crayfish”, the tropical ocean lobster. To do that, you want to flash-freeze them with a wind colder than 40° below zero or so (either -40°C or -40°F, they’re the same). They need to be snap-frozen, an ordinary freezer won’t do it.
So my friend and I located a killer packaged refrigeration unit, all assembled, self-contained, ready to go. We could bolt it in and go processing in a couple weeks, because that was the dream. We’d finish the freezer and go processing crayfish around the tropical South Pacific … what’s not to like? So we went down to Fiji. Harlow was going to buy the packaged unit and bring it down.
But Harlow decided he knew better. So he shows up in Fiji with a refrigeration compressor, and an evaporator, and a condenser, and some fittings and valves and pipe, and tells us he wants it built from scratch. Oh, and he wants it water-cooled, not air-cooled. Oh, and not driven electrically, but run off a “lay-shaft”, a separate shaft driven by the main engine which drives other machinery in turn.
Ooooooh kaaaaay … we can do that, Harlow, but it’s gonna take a while.
So for my very first refrigeration project, my friend and I got to design and build an entire marine engine-driven commercial-type blast freezer system with a water-cooled condenser … from scratch, from the individual pieces. Might as well set the bar high, I figure …
So I got out my texts and tables and designed it up, and we got started, nothing else to do. We built the lay-shaft, and installed the refrigeration piping from the engine room up forward to the freezer room, belt-drove the lay-shaft off the main engine, and then got the water pump and the refrigeration compressor to run off the lay-shaft, and laid out and cut and soldered and tested all of the piping, and that’s only a tiny fraction of all of the tasks … in a foreign country, with not a whole lot of refrigeration parts available, and no instruction manual.
Like we warned Harlow, it took a while, just about six months to do it, with my gorgeous ex-fiancee serving as the ship’s cook and nurse and general hard worker. But finally, after scraping Suva dry of various refrigeration parts and pieces, one fine day I charged up the system, and we gave it the first test … and the wind off of that blast freezer was at -50°F (-46C) just like we planned. Indeed, the blast freezer worked like a champ. As long as the main engine was on it could be clutched in or out to run it, and the lay-shaft could also be driven by the auxiliary engine to keep the freezer hold and the seafood frozen if the main engine died. It was a sweet rig.
So naturally, Harlow decided that we should have a party to celebrate, and we were all up for the plan. We’d been anchored right offshore from the Royal Suva Yacht Club the whole time, so we invited everyone.
There was a trimaran owned by a friend at the Yacht Club at the time, so we tied her up alongside the Askoy. That was for the big wide stable dance floor, we hung speakers from the rigging on each side. Our friend Doc Lowry used his 28′ open skiff as the shore boat, to bring out loads and loads of people from the Yacht Club dock. He spent most of the night moving folks from the Club to the party and back again … then out to the party again …
As each person arrived, we took them a couple at a time down into the blast freezer. You entered through a hatch in the deck, and down below it was cold, cold, cold. I had put a number of bottles of vodka into a basket right in front of the blast of the freezer. I stuck a thermometer through the cap in one of them, it registered minus thirty degrees … I still have a picture of it around here somewhere. [UPDATE—found the picture. You can see the red indication.]
So as each person came down into the freezer, we’d prop them up in front of the wintry blast. The wind was strong, and blowing at minus fifty degrees F. Most of these folks were Fijians, who had never seen any place that was as cold as plus 50°F (10°C), much less minus 50°F. They started shivering as soon as they got inside, they’d never in their lives felt a wind at minus fifty. So I or their other host of the moment would pour each person a reasonable glass of pure vodka at minus thirty degrees.
Vodka at that temperature hardly has any taste, and the folks were in a hurry to get out of that damned freezing cold, so they’d drink it down straight like it was water … then we’d take them back out into the balmy tropical night. They’d get about ten steps across the Askoy deck, maybe somebody would pull them onto the dance floor, maybe not, but in either case, a few steps later, the combination of the initial freezing cold wind, the vodka, and the subsequent heat would make their knees wobbly and their eyeballs jiggle, and the Askoy Freezer Party got just that much merrier. The Yacht Club Bar eventually closed, and the bar guys and the Club office ladies joined the party. People kept arriving. Big Jenny showed up at three AM and shouted “Am I late?”
“No, party just starting, girl!” We took her into the freezer and gave her a double shot, and indeed the party restarted when she came back out.
I’ve not been to too many parties like that one. Rumor had it that it resulted in one marriage and a couple of divorces. Both a wallet and a set of eyeglasses committed suicide by jumping into the Suva Harbour sometime during the night.The amount of debris on the deck and the dance floor was overwhelming. And me, I proved it was a magical party. By the end of the night I was so drunk that shortly before dawn I went to sleep on a nice, soft pile of rope I’d discovered up front near the bow of the boat. It was covered by some gunny sacks, and I nestled in and got comfortable and was gone.
When I woke up, though, I sadly concluded that some ungrateful bastard must’ve replaced the rope while I was sleeping, because I found I was nestled on the usual pile of Askoy anchor chain … in its usual spot up in the bow … covered up as always with dirty gunny sacks …
Sleeping on chain, I found out, makes a man say very bad words upon awakening. If you are given an alternative mattress choice, say a bed of nails, or a small barnyard stall with two chickens and a rabid goat, I’d advise taking it. Plus it seemed that the entire Fijian mosquito tribe had taken advantage of the party to do some in-flight refueling. My body was royally whupped in the morning, big anchor chain marks and dents in my hips and side, covered in mosquito bites.
But I didn’t care a bit. The freezer was done, the icy blast off the evaporator was at minus fifty, the vodka had been at minus thirty to forty all night long, the party was a success, and my gorgeous ex-fiancée and I had danced away the night.
And that’s all there is to my refrigeration credentials. Well, except for several times after that, when I made money fixing various non-operating sailboat refrigeration systems.
Regards to everyone,
w.

First time I’ve heard mainstream recognition of neg feedback in Arctic:
http://neven1.typepad.com/blog/2013/02/cryosat-2-reveals-major-arctic-sea-ice-loss.html
>>
The smaller relative decline in winter volume highlights an interesting “negative feedback”.
“Thin ice grows more quickly than thick ice in the winter. Ice acts as an insulator – the thinner the ice, the more heat can be lost to the atmosphere and the faster the water beneath the ice can freeze,” Dr Giles told BBC News.
>>
The ’50m’ is my comment above denotes 50 metres (and not miles). I have only just spotted the ambiguity.
Oh dear, my comment appears 3 times. If the moderator is watching could you please delete the second two?
Matt Skaggs says:
March 12, 2013 at 7:01 am
I don’t remember a “governor” being a fundamemtal building block in control systems theory, so I for one am very interested in hearing how it is different from a feedback.
———
I’ll admit that the more I think about it the hazier I am on what Willis is getting at as well. I think the idea is that the traditional notion of feedbacks oversimplifies the situation too much, but I’m looking forward to hearing him talk about it in more detail as well.
Per Wiki….”Daedalus is a fictional inventor created by David E H Jones for his column in ‘New Science’ and ‘Guardian’….prima facia science evidence of fiction.
“Heat of Ice” thermal storage systems around since the 1990’s are described here…
http://www.forbes.com/sites/toddwoody/2012/04/05/secret-ingredient-to-making-solar-energy-work-salt/
Propane absorption refrigerators were a common item in the 1950, made by Seval, later owned by Arkansas Gas. Slow cooling but known to operate for 50 yrs without service. York Air Conditioning Company made absorption chillers for areas with low power availibity. I did drafting on such a system for the Bank of Monterrey (Mexico) in the sixties.
The average culumlus cloud weighs 800 tons and is kept aloft by INTERNAL vertical wind shear. As an errant student pilot i flew solo through a series of these clouds, where alternating bands of raindrops pounded the top, then the bottom of the wing. These direct observations of internal cloud conditions are in “Science Goes Over Under, Inside Out”. The droplet size increased during the decent. The vertical wind shear made the pitot tube and static port instruments useless. Life experience trumps classroom hypothesis everytime.
Another good story willis. I am old, but still capable of learning, thank you.
There’s appears to be no problem with your memory because governors do not exist in theory, they exist in reality. A real control system is a device based on control theory – not control theory itself. A ‘governor’ is a control device exploiting a negative feedback, (e.g. – a throttle governor used in an IC engine), a thermostat is another, etc.
Willis, thank you for a very succinct explanation of refrigerators and thunderstorms. Has added greatly to my own understanding.
In my glider flying days in North Yorkshire (RAF Dishforth) I became intimately aware of the power of the atmospheric heat engine you described. Early in the summer mornings there is almost no wind as the sun hasn’t yet heated the ground enough to prime the heat engine. The sky is a boring blue. By about four hours after sunup things start popping and you see the little puffs of cumulus appearing. A little later the puffs become more numerous until the clouds join and begin to form stately drifts with their bases lined up parallel to the wind and all at the same altitude, where the dew point and the air temperature coincide. In summertime Yorkshire that was 3,000-5,000 feet. Since each of those clouds would be linked to the ground by a rising column of air conditions were then suitable for a glider pilot to scratch around looking for lift.
At that point it was “pilots man your planes” and we would start winch launching gliders. Three thousand feet of steel cable attached to a WW2 surplus barrage balloon winch spun up gets a glider airborne in about 75 feet. Yank back on the stick to maintain a 45 degree climb and you are at a thousand feet in about a minute. The cable ring slides off the nose hook and you are away.
People who haven’t flown in the rising air column from ground to cloud can’t truly imagine how powerful it is. The most important instrument in a glider is your variometer (vertical speed indicator in American.) It shows if the air around you is rising (good) or sinking (bad). Sometimes the needle would peg at 10kts up and you could climb to cloud base in only minutes. If it is strong enough, you don’t even have to bank to stay in the column. It just carries you straight up like an elevator.
By 1300 or so the clouds have lined themselves up in streets and you can work your way cross country by soaring to a cloud base and then jump the gap by flying across to the next street and gain back the height you lost at the next cloud.
Alas, all good things come to an end and at some point the connection from the ground to the cloud is broken, the cloud begins to disintegrate, and your lift collapses. The variometer tells the sad story of sink and you have to scramble to get back to your field before you run out of altitude.
If the lift has been very strong and it is getting later in the afternoon you can see the clouds getting dark and angry looking on the bottom. They start morphing into a cumulonimbus pattern and it is definitely time to go home because the more energetic the rising air, the more powerful the downdrafts of sink outside the column of lift. If the cloud base begins to dish upward you could find your aircraft being sucked into the into an incipient thunderstorm. Gliders have long wings and are very susceptible to torsional forces from asymmetric lift/sink which can tear them off. Also never-to-exceed speeds are usually only about 90 knots so airframe damage is why glider pilots usually wear parachutes.
Nice post, Willis…But I think this paragraph is where the problem lies in terms of interpreting this as somehow getting around the standard picture of AGW:
But…the lapse rate feedback is already included in the climate models. I don’t really see how you have introduced anything new here. You might argue that the lapse rate feedback is being underestimated, but that would mean that the upper troposphere would have to be warming even faster relative to the surface than the models predict. As you know, if anything the data shows it to be the other way around; this is likely attributable more to data issues than model issues, but I don’t think there is much room for saying that the models are underestimating the so-called “hot spot” in the tropical troposphere!
Great story, Willis. I’ve never slept on the anchor chain, but a nice pile of nylon lines, properly arranged, can make a lovely bed or recliner.
Do we have any idea of how much infrared is transmitted into space by a thunderhead?
Willis your diving stories reminded me of this:
Ready for the open ocean dive the instructor asks his blonde student “Why do Scuba divers always fall backwards off their boats?”
To which the blonde replies “If they fell forward, they’d still be in the boat.”
cn
This I have experienced many times. It is the sign to rush indoors and shutter your windows before the great downpour. The air is fresh, just like in the open sea. Sometimes, the first drops of rain come in a light wave; then it seems as if the rain is subduing, then kaboom, the heavens unleash.
Also the sudden drop in temperature when you get this vertical downdraft is quite amazing.
Willis, a possible way to move the solid from the melt/evap phase changes back to the condenser is to have the refrigerant in a closed container that could mechanically be raised (or lowered or horizontal action or rotated on a shaft away from freezer to condenser/compressor) to the freezer box to melt the ice and evaporate the liquid and then head back to where it can be compressed and cooled. A double acting piston might be more efficient in the rotating alternative to have the expanding gas in the cooling end assisting with compression in the condensing end. Engineering might have some challenges, though.
Matt Skaggs says:
March 12, 2013 at 7:01 am
Oh, really? Well, then you really must google “james watt flyball governor”, and fix the gaping hole in your education …
A quick look for ‘ governor “control systems theory” ‘ brings up about 2 million hits … so at least your lack of knowledge is not contagious. Here’s a quote to get you started, emphasis mine:
Hope that helps …
w.
Joel Shore says:
March 12, 2013 at 8:22 am
Thanks, Joel, always good to hear from you. But if you think “lapse rate feedback” describes the actual reality of refrigerators forming within hours to cool off hot spots, or the process by which rising air inside thunderstorms is shielded from interaction with the surrounding … well, I just don’t know what to say.
No, this stuff is not in climate models, Joel, because it’s all sub-grid. No, there’s no independent mobile refrigerators in climate models. No, there’s no way in a climate model for air to go from the surface to the top of the troposphere without interacting with the lower troposphere all along the way.
So I don’t have the slightest clue what your claim is here. The models do not contain a host of critical sub-grid-level phenomena, and waving your hand and saying “lapse rate feedback is already included” doesn’t even begin to address the problems that creates.
w.
Excellent instance of pure teaching. Concepts that have fuzzily evaded me for my 55 years now make sense. Thank you.
Two questions:
– “Moist air is lighter than dry air.” – This seems counterintuitive to me. True when temps are equal?
– “The system responds to temperature.” The response affects temperature. Isn’t this feedback?
Again, wonderful post, to my ultimate benefit. Thank you.
The miniscus is getting thicker…:) I made a comment about water steaming(evaporating) at a lower temperature than boiling point(100 C) and was refered by another commenter to this informative link: http://chemwiki.ucdavis.edu/Physical_Chemistry/Physical_Properties_of_Matter/Intermolecular_Forces/Unusual_Properties_of_Water
Where i learned about phase changes and sensible/latent heat of water and i still think that that vapor is steam and water steams(vaporizes/evaporates/phase changes) and cools the air and surfaces it has contact with.That’s what clouds are made of,and it sure isn’t 100 C anywhere on the surface and if it was there would be a cloud forming(like above a cooling tower).and i know that it has to do with dew point and relative humidity and that just makes the cloud visible or not.(contrails?,fogaggedon?thermal lows?)Water is sure a magical compound and we’re lucky we have a lot of it to work with.
Thanks for the interesting articles and comments
I have one experience at detecting the conversion of latent heat into sensible heat as it is done by Mother Nature.
We were picking our way through the tops of a middling strong Tropical Depression out over the South China Sea, about half way between Danang and Manila. We were at FL410 (about 41,000′) and picking our way through the CBs (cumulonimbus) that ran up another 5 to 10 thousand feet above us. We were in clear air, but everything below us was solid cloud cover right down to the surface.
At some point our air conditioning system, which worked by taking ambient air and both dehumidifying and warming it to something much more comfortable than the -50 degree C it was at FL410, started pumping lots of very warm and humid air into the cabin of that KC-135A. First, ambient air at -50 C is not usually very humid; second the warmth of the inflowing air was considerably more than it had been a minute or two before. A minute or so after the warm humid air started flowing, there was a loud boom. One of the J-57-59 engines swallowed a big chunk of ice that had built up on the engine inlet, overwhelming the engine anti-ice system. Fortunately, the J-57 engine was a very rugged engine and it took the ice with no discernible damage.
And then the warm humid air stopped flowing and everything was back to normal.
Willis Eschenbach says:
I agree that it is sub-grid. But, it is not correct to say that sub-grid processes are not described at all. They are just described in some average way. Now, that may present problems in some cases, but I don’t think you have demonstrated it does so here.
In particular, your notion of air going from the surface to the top of the troposphere and somehow bypassing things has an empirically-testable consequence: Since, at the end of the day, the only way that energy gets transferred out into space is via radiation and radiation occurs according to the temperature, then what you describe has to manifest itself as higher temperatures in the top of the troposphere in order to radiate the energy away.
I don’t really see how you can easily get around this fundamental fact. (The only conceivable way that I can envision is something like the following: Different parts of the atmosphere with different concentrations of water vapor will have different optical thicknesses and hence different amounts that a certain volume radiates. So, I imagine it might be possible to argue that it is not that the upper troposphere is overall warming faster, but that the wetter regions of it are or something of that sort. If this is your hypothesis then it ought to be testable…and one would also need to understand more about what climate models currently predict for the variation in temperature and in humidity in the tropical troposphere.)
joeldshore says:
March 12, 2013 at 11:00 am
Willis Eschenbach says:
Joel, thanks for your comments. That’s a wonderful handwaving theory, that somehow averaging takes care of everything sub-grid. If you actually believe that, then I would never, ever put you in charge of modeling anything.
Please take a look at my post, “The Details Are In The Devil“, in which I discuss the problems of gridcell averages.
You go on to say (emphasis mine)
I don’t understand this. Higher temperatures than what? Than the identical situation without thunderstorms? How do you plan to measure that? If you mean higher temperatures than the surrounding air, the inside of the thunderstorm tower has to be warmer than the surrounding air or it wouldn’t convect upwards.
Again, that sounds good, Joel … but truly, I don’t understand what it is you plan to measure to determine if the air has not interacted with the lower troposphere.
Finally, I don’t understand the physics of your underlying claim.
I’ve said that when air travels from the surface to the the upper troposphere inside of a vertical cloud tower, basically it doesn’t interact with the lower troposphere. That is to say, it doesn’t exchange energy, either latent heat, sensible heat, or radiated energy, with the troposphere.
You claim that this is false … but physically, how is it false? How is it that the air ascending inside the cumulonimbus tower physically interacts with the surrounding descending dry air? It can’t radiate, it’s inside a cloud. It’s not mixing in any way with the surrounding air, it’s enveloped in a cloud pipe.
You talk about my “notion of air going from the surface to the top of the troposphere and somehow bypassing things” as though it were imaginary … yes, that’s what the rising air physically does. It goes inside a cloud pipe from the surface to the upper troposphere and bypasses all the thick greenhouse gas rich lower troposphere entirely.
If you think not, then you’re a physicist—explain to me how and where the rising warm air is interacting with the lower troposphere when it is ascending through the center of the cumulus tower. In fact, it bypasses it all, just as I said.
w.
Willis,
I’ve been reading your excellent stories, have had similar experience refrigerating fishboats, anchored my sailboat off Makena for a few days when it was a wild beach, etc. One issue with the Nairobi passive reefer system is that the sea level evaporator needs a low enough pressure to allow evaporation, but a 10,000 foot high column (on what we usually call the suction side) will have, even for a vapor, a gravity pressure that would be to high to allow evaporation, unless you used a working fluid much less dense than the usual ‘freons.’ Maybe CO2 with a high evaporator pressure. BTW, During previous interglacials, the World temps are said to have been 3 C. warmer than today, and I presume thunderstorms existed back then, so however well thunderstorms regulate temps, we can still have 3. C. warming, especially with CO2 GHG AGW.
These devices range from Watt’s steam engine governor to the sophisticated microprocessor controllers found in consumer items…
Indeed Watt’s governor is possibly the origin of the term in the engineering sense. I remember seeing them on stationary engines at country fairs when I was a kid, and staring at them until I sussed how it worked.
Centrifugal force separates the bob weights which have a central pivot. This raises an arm giving mechanical displacement roughly “proportional” ( which depends on ) the rpm of the motor. That is used to control a valve in the case of a steam engine of fuel input in the case of an ICE that tends to increase/reduce the motors power. This means that as a load (plough , thresher etc) varies the engine keeps running at roughly the same speed.
The linear displacement is not strictly proportional to rmp and neither is the engine response to fuel/steam input. But linearity is not the aim and it keeps the motor running at pretty much the same rmp from idle to near full load.
In engineering terms: a negative feedback.
Now, as has already been noted, there is a strong positve feedback affecting the amplitude of the negative feedback in the T-storm , so the feedback will be very strong and decidedly non linear.
That does not prevent it from being modelled in the usual engineering terms of feedbacks if it can be adequately described.
I seem to recall an article Willis did about a year ago on ARGO float data then showed surface sea temperatures had a ceiling of about 38 C. They just hit a barrier and went no higher.
However, the negative swings seemed fairly sine wave like IIRC. It did not appear that the mechanism prevented negative swings, so I’m not sure how will the ‘governor’ idea fits.
But Willis has a talent for clear, simple explanation so it will be interesting to see his account of thunderstorms as a governor of tropical climate.
I suspect (though stand to be corrected) that what Willis is getting at when he asserts this is “not a feedback, but a governor” is that a governor is a very specific form of negative feedback.
A simple negative feedback will tend to reduce (but not necessarily cancel out) the effect of a change in input to a system. A governor will tend to cancel out changes in input in order to maintain a system at a constant state. In that simple sense it’s equivalent to a negative feedback of 1.
But it will also adjust its response to EXACTLY (on average) counteract any other changes in the system that might try to alter the base state – including changes in any other feedbacks that are operating or even, to some extent, fundamental changes in the system itself. If the input varies, a governor will cancel it. If a positive feedback elsewhere in the system increases, the governor will cancel it. If a negative feedback elsewhere fails , a governor will take up its job as well.
If you have a two cylinder engine governed to a given RPM you can even disable one cylinder (a pretty fundamental system change) and the governor will STILL maintain the set output RPM provided the remaining cylinder is capable of supplying enough power.
In that snese, even though governors rely on negative feedback to work, Willis is entirely justified in drawing a distinction between a governor and a feedback.
Are we overcomplicating matters in pondering Willis claim that this is not a feedback? Again, maybe in a pure theoretical sense there’s an argument to be had. In practice though, with respect to climate scientology, don’t we essentially end up just adjusting our notion of climate sensitivity to CO2 based on feedbacks? If the answer to this question is ‘yes’, then I think Willis has a point in making the distinction he’s making. This regulation system doesn’t have a darn thing to do with CO2 – it shouldn’t be looked at as a feedback if feedbacks in practice end up having some sort of implied logarithmic relationship with atmospheric CO2.
Or maybe we’re not overcomplicating matters. I keep putting off posting because I’ve got this nagging sense that there’s more to it than this. I can’t identify or articulate the significance concisely to myself. Still missing stuff. Maybe it’ll come to me later. Oh well, break times over for me, back to work.