
Guest post by David Archibald
Long suspected, it seems that this has now been confirmed by a paper in Astronomy and Astrophysics with the title “Is there a planetary influence on solar activity?” by Abreu et al that was published on 22nd October, 2012.
From the Discussion and Conclusions section:
The excellent spectral agreement between the planetary tidal effects acting on the tachocline and the solar magnetic activity is
surprising, because until now the tidal coupling has been considered to be negligible. In Appendix A we show that the possibility of an accidental coincidence can be ruled out. We therefore suggest that a planetary modulation of the solar activity does take place on multidecadal to centennial time scales.
The authors note that current solar dynamo models are unable to explain the periodicities in solar activity such as the 88 year (Gleissberg), 104 year, 150 year, 208 year (de Vries), 506 year, 1000 year (Eddy) and 2200 year (Halstatt) cycles. They adopted a different view by regarding the planets and the solar dynamo as two weakly coupled non-linear systems.
The idea that planetary motions may influence solar activity seems to have been initiated by Rudolf Wolf in the 1850s. While energy considerations clearly show that the planets cannot be the direct cause of solar activity, they may perturb the solar dynamo.
Specifically, the authors calculated planetary torque at the tachocline. The tachocline of the sun is a shear layer which represents a sharp transition between two distinct rotational regimes: the differentially rotating convection zone and the almost rigidly rotating radiative interior. The tachocline plays a fundamental role in the generation and storage of the toroidal magnetic flux that eventually gives rise to solar active regions. A net tidal torque is exerted in a small region close to the tachocline due to the buoyancy frequency originating from the convection zone matching the tidal period. The tachocline is thought to be non-spherical – either prolate (watermelon-shaped) or oblate (pumpkin-shaped). The authors’ model describes planetary torques acting on a non-spherical solar tachocline.
Figure 5 from the paper shows the 10Be record, shown as modulation potential, and planetary torque in the frequency domain:

Panel a is the Fourier spectrum of the solar activity quantified by the solar modulation potential. Panel b is the Fourier spectrum of the annually averaged torque modulus. The spectra display significant peaks with very similar periodicities: The 88 year Gleissberg and the 208 year de Vries cycles are the most prominent, but periodicities around 104 years, 150 years, and 506 years are also seen.
The match between theory and the physical evidence is very, very good. As the authors put it,”there is highly statistically significant evidence for a causal relationship between the power spectra of the planetary torque on the Sun and the observed magnetic activity at the solar surface as derived from cosmogenic radionuclides.”
They also advance a plausible mechanism which is that the tachocline, playing a key role in the solar dynamo process, is a layer of strong shear which coincides more or less with the layer of overshooting convection at the bottom of the convection zone. The overshoot layer is thought to be crucial for the storage and amplification of the magnetic flux tubes that eventually erupt at the solar photosphere to form active regions. Small variations in the stratification of the overshoot zone “of about -10-4 may decide whether a flux tube becomes unstable at 2·10-4 G or at 10-5 G. This makes a great difference, because flux tubes that do not reach a strength close to 10-5 G before entering the convection zone cannot reach the solar surface as a coherent structure and therefore cannot form sunspots.” This sounds like an explanation for the Livingstone and Penn effect of fading sunspots.
Figure A.1 from the paper also shows the very good correlation between cosmogenic radionuclides from the period 300-9400 years BP and the model output:

Upper middle panel: 14C production rate derived from the INTCAL09 record
Lower middle panel: solar modulation record based on 10Be records from GRIP
(Greenland) and Dronning Maud Land (Antarctica) and the 14C production rate
Bottom panel: Calculated torque based on planetary positions
If planetary torque modulates solar activity, does solar activity in turn modulate the earth’s climate? Let’s have a look at what the 10Be record is telling us. This is the Dye 3 record from Greenland:
All the cold periods of the last six hundred years are associated with spikes in 10Be and thus low solar activity. What is also telling is that the break-over to the Modern Warm Period is associated with much lower radionuclide levels. There is a solar mechanism that explains the warming of the 20th Century. It is also seen in the Central England Temperature record as shown in the following figure:
Conclusion
This paper is a major advance in our understanding of how solar activity is modulated and in turn its effect on the earth’s climate. It can be expected that planetary torque will progress to being useful as a tool for climate prediction – for several hundred years ahead.
Reference
J.A. Abreu, J. Beer, A. Ferriz-Mas, K.G. McCracken, and F. Steinhilber, Is there a planetary influence on solar activity?” Astronomy and Astrophysics, October 22, 2012
Thanks to Geoff Sharp, the full paper can be downloaded from here.
(Note: This post was edited for title, form, and some content by Anthony Watts prior to publishing)
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
Steven Mosher says:
November 11, 2012 at 12:08 pm
Leif
“As one can represent almost any function by the sum of a number of sine waves, ”
dont expose their dirty little secret.
Lol, see my frank appraisal of our cycles analysis at
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/11/10/is-there-is-a-planetary-influence-on-solar-activity-it-seems-so-according-to-this-new-paper/#comment-1143500
Now, which of your dirty little secrets shall I expose… Hmmmm.
Mosher.
I have previously listed for the benefit of Leif a large number of real world events that could falsify my hypothesis.
None of them has happened thus far.
Some examples:
Decreasing global cloudiness whilst the sun remains relatively quiet.
More zonal / poleward jets whilst the sun remains relatively quiet.
A resumption of stratospheric cooling without a return to a more active sun.
A resumption of tropospheric warming without a decrease in global cloudiness.
A warming mesosphere with a cooling stratosphere.
etc. etc.
There are lots of combinations of real world events that could render my hypothesis unlikely to be true and I await any one of them.
In contrast your AGW theory is completely unfalsifiable due to the twists and turns of the proponents.
What would discredit AGW theory for you ?
Put up or shut up.
Leif Svalgaard says:
November 11, 2012 at 2:08 pm
tallbloke says:
Thanks for the Not-plot, very interesting. Can the L&P effect be ruled out as a contributing factor to the reduction in group sunspot numbers?
The L&P effect has nothing to do with why the Group sunspot number is too low
Well, that’s interesting, because you’d think that with the smaller spots disappearing, that would reduce the number of groups.
What data analysis are you relying on to make your assertion that the L&P effect hasn’t affected group sunspot number?
rgbatduke says:
November 11, 2012 at 12:59 pm
So unless I have completely lost my mind, almost no part of the Sun is ever in freefall any more than most of the Earth, Moon, Jupiter, etc are in freefall. Tidal forces are indeed the pseudoforces caused by the near impossibility of an extended body all being in freefall when moving in the influence of other gravitational bodies.
rgb
One way to consider it would be to say all parts of the sun are in freefall, but they’re all wanting to be freefalling along slightly different geodesics. Because they are forced to cohere by the local force of gravity of the sun itself, differentiation arises. Then there are the relativistic consequences of the transitions between matter and energy going on as the Sun converts matter to energy and shifts that energy from the core to the surface. The Sun is a messy place, as Leif constantly reminds us, except when it doesn’t suit his argument.
And he has used the phrase ‘perfect freefall’ many times on this blog. I’ll google up a few instances.
Leif Svalgaard:
The AM ‘mechanism’ would not have worked anyway because the Sun is in free fall.
Rgbatduke:
So unless I have completely lost my mind, almost no part of the Sun is ever in freefall …No extended object in the gravitational field of another is in “perfect freefall”.
Leif Svalgaard:
The word ‘perfect’ has no place in science.
…………..
I thought the Newtonian mechanics is very clear; it has to be one way or another; no apple tree climbing for the Heisenberg’s kitten in the Newton’s orchard.
Thus all pronouncements about solar magnetic feedback being impossible will be taken with even larger pinch of salt.
Thank you gentlemen
Lief, (someone) where is the GSN data that you plotted against the TSI ?
http://www.leif.org/research/TSI-Guess.xls
Stephen Wilde says: “Put up or shut up”.
Now now children , please play nicely.
As I pointed out above, even if we accept all of Leif’s attempts to iron solar variability flat (a nice image) the latest version of the results of his efforts still shows a solar pattern coinciding with climate variations.
His latest revision still shows cool spells correlating with low solar activity. If anything the match is even better than before.
Can’t we move on now in light of that ?
rgbatduke said:
“So unless I have completely lost my mind, almost no part of the Sun is ever in freefall any more than most of the Earth, Moon, Jupiter, etc are in freefall. Tidal forces are indeed the pseudoforces caused by the near impossibility of an extended body all being in freefall when moving in the influence of other gravitational bodies”
So can we please now move on from Leif’s daft assertion that there is no gravitational interaction between multiple bodies that are in free fall together ?
tallbloke says:
November 11, 2012 at 2:18 pm
Well, that’s interesting, because you’d think that with the smaller spots disappearing, that would reduce the number of groups.
It will and does, but that works for both the Group and Zurich sunspot numbers. The disappearance of small groups has been going on for some time [but is now becoming more obvious]. Groups are classified by letters: ‘A’ consisting of spots with no penumbra, ‘B’ as ‘A’ but with a clear bipolar nature, ‘C’ smaller spots with penumbra, ‘D’ and up with larger and larger spots. Here is a plot of the fraction [percentage] of small groups [A and B] of all groups: http://www.leif.org/research/Frequency-Small-Groups.png
What data analysis are you relying on to make your assertion that the L&P effect hasn’t affected group sunspot number?
You have not read my links. Here is a more extensive analysis: http://www.leif.org/research/Reconstruction%20of%20Sunspot%20Number.pdf
The basic argument is that the difference between the Group and Zurich SSNs stems from a discontinuity around 1885. That jump is totally understood now to be due to wrong k-factors used by Hoyt and Schatten [how they got them wrong is not yet clear. One factor is that H&S did not realize that Wolf changed from his larger telescope to a much smaller one in the 1860s]. Adjusting for that singular jump makes the two series equal [to within their noise], so we don’t need to invoke any other explanations.
The word ‘perfect’ has no place in science. It is always a matter of degree. What counts is the deviation from free fall [and that is exceedingly small]. Tides have nothing to do with this.
Excuse me? The “tidal” pseudoforce is the deviation from free fall, the consequence of an accelerated frame. As in the near side and far side of the moon aren’t in orbit (free fall) around the Earth; only a roughly spherical surface through the center of mass is.
Drop a rod straight down at a star, and the leading and trailing edges experience a tidal force because the near side experiences more force than the far side, but the center of mass has to accelerate according to the total force. If the SSCM is dancing through the sun all of the time (as it is) then the CM of the sun is bouncing around like an erratic yo-yo compared to the CM of the Solar System, and almost none of the sun is in free fall and experiences some degree of accelerated frame tidal force.
I agree that this force is probably very, very small, especially compared to the Sun’s own gravitational field, but then, it has a very long time to drive any wave modes that might be handy and resonant in the thermocline, or for that matter elsewhere in the Sun. Also, the sun is quite large, and the tidal forces are related to the difference between near side and far side relative to the CM.
I don’t know offhand how these forces compare, or the plausibility of the argument in the top article. That’s why I said in the very first reply/comment above that a numerical computation/simulation with reasonable parameters for the Sun and the solar system tides would significantly increase my degree of belief in the conclusion (which is currently very likely almost as low as yours is).
rgb
Stephen Wilde says:
November 11, 2012 at 2:16 pm
I have previously listed for the benefit of Leif a large number of real world events that could falsify my hypothesis.
As long as you have not quantified those, they are useless for testing
His latest revision still shows cool spells correlating with low solar activity. If anything the match is even better than before.
Solar activity now is very low [as in 1900], but there is no cool spell now.
Leif Svalgaard says: November 11, 2012 at 2:08 pm
Group sunspot number is too low before 1882. The reason for that is that Hoyt and Schatten got the k-factors wrong. Even Schatten now agrees with that.
May be Schatten is wrong to agree that he was wrong in the first place (is that a circular argument?)
Geologic records of the far North Atlantic, to a possible ‘consternation’ of science is settled theorists, show close correlation to the solar activity and particularly to the Group Sunspot Number – GSN
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/GSN-NAP.htm
If solid earth’s crust does that, why not the oceans and the climate?
Science is far from settled.
P. Solar says:
November 11, 2012 at 2:29 pm
…….
GSN data:
ftp://ftp.ngdc.noaa.gov/STP/SOLAR_DATA/SUNSPOT_NUMBERS/GROUP_SUNSPOT_NUMBERS/yearrg.dat
This paper seems to go along side Nicola Scafetta’s paper in ‘Journal of Atmospheric and Solar-Terrestrial Physics’, “Empirical evidence for a celestial origin of the climate oscillations and its implications”
rgbatduke says:
November 11, 2012 at 2:45 pm
Excuse me? The “tidal” pseudoforce is the deviation from free fall, the consequence of an accelerated frame
Tidal forces are always present, but the deviations from free fall are extremely small. The argument is not about tides, but about exchange of angular momentum [other than through tides]. The barycenter has no tidal effect as it has no mass. The tidal effects come from distant planets.
vukcevic says:
November 11, 2012 at 2:50 pm
If solid earth’s crust does that
As we have discussed so many times, it does not. If there is a correlation with the Group sunspot number, then that shows that the correlation is spurious, as the GSN is just wrong. You comments show extreme confirmation bias.
Leif,
in slide 4
The Tidal Bulges Raised by Planets
Why are the other moons not calculated such as the four other moons larger than ours Ganymede, Titan, Callisto and Io? and other mass such as the asteroid belt. can you add this mass?
Also it says,
“For comparison, The tidal bulge that the Sunraises on Jupiter is 87 mm and on Earth 248 mm
The extreme smallness of the tidal bulges at the tachocline (rc) (≤ 0.2 millimeter) is usually taken as a strong argument against the hypothesis that solar activity is generated or significantly modulated by tidal forces.
Smallness of the forces is a general problem with all proposed mechanisms”
Wouldn’t you have to add all this mass together and divide it by it’s self to find the maximum force exerted on the sun. Which is substantially larger than the force the sun exerts on individual planetary bodies?
http://www.leif.org/research/AGU%20Fall%202011%20SH34B-08.pdf slide 4
The Tidal Bulges Raised by Planets
Leif Svalgaard says:
November 11, 2012 at 2:42 pm
tallbloke says:
November 11, 2012 at 2:18 pm
Well, that’s interesting, because you’d think that with the smaller spots disappearing, that would reduce the number of groups.
It will and does, but that works for both the Group and Zurich sunspot numbers. The disappearance of small groups has been going on for some time [but is now becoming more obvious]. Groups are classified by letters: ‘A’ consisting of spots with no penumbra, ‘B’ as ‘A’ but with a clear bipolar nature, ‘C’ smaller spots with penumbra, ‘D’ and up with larger and larger spots. Here is a plot of the fraction [percentage] of small groups [A and B] of all groups: http://www.leif.org/research/Frequency-Small-Groups.png
Thanks. Looks to me like the SIDC number has been inflated by speck and pore miscounting by as much as the GSN has fallen.
Leif Svalgaard says:
November 11, 2012 at 2:49 pm
“Solar activity now is very low [as in 1900], but there is no cool spell now.”
Not as cool as then based on the very few long term global data sets, but cooling is already on it’s way. I see a offset from the 1930’s compared to the 2000’s for both HADCRUT and GISS, with around 0.3c – 0.4c warm bias. The Arctic temperatures comparing that period show very little difference using the only available long term 31 stations around the Arctic circle. (64N+) Yet these little differences involve a much bigger decrease and increase around that period of 4c.
Only weather I know, but the UK had the coldest December (2010) and wettest summer (2012) since around that period (1900’s), just recently. I am waiting for next weather event there to break records since that period. Co-incidence I don’t think so because there is some evidence that low solar activity changes the behavior of the jet stream and therefore the AO and NAO. With the solar activity as you say similar to the 1900’s we are getting weather similar to it too.
Sparks says:
November 11, 2012 at 3:24 pm
Why are the other moons not calculated
Because their masses are so small.
tallbloke says:
November 11, 2012 at 3:26 pm
Thanks. Looks to me like the SIDC number has been inflated by speck and pore miscounting by as much as the GSN has fallen.
The SIDC miscounting is not due to specks, quite the contrary: to the overcount af large spots being counted more than once. That makes a jump in 1945, which we take care of already.
But you have not grasped the whole analysis: Wolf discovered that the diurnal variation of the ‘magnetic needle’ is a sensitive proxy for the sunspot number [actually for Far UltraViolet]. Our modern understanding of that relationship is firm and can be used to validate the SIDC [Wolf] numbers as far back as the 1780s. This shows that the GSN is the one at fault. Again, this is not really necessary because the Group numbers themselves show that H&S’s calibration went wrong in the 1880s. There is really no wiggle room left.
Matt G says:
November 11, 2012 at 3:35 pm
Leif Svalgaard says:
but cooling is already on it’s way.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/11/06/uah-global-temperature-for-october-unchanged/
You (Anthony) mentioned Landscheidt’s work on March 21. This seems similar…
Sparks says:
November 11, 2012 at 3:24 pm
find the maximum force exerted on the sun. Which is substantially larger than the force the sun exerts on individual planetary bodies?
Actually NO. The latter is far larger because the Sun is far larger. E.g. the diameter of the Sun is only ten times that of Jupiter, but its mass is 1000 times larger.
Thanks Vuc’ , I have that data but it only runs to 1995
What I meant was what was the source of the data shown in Leif’s graph:
http://www.leif.org/research/TSI-Background-Not.png
Matt G,
Stephen Wilde explained that very nicely at November 10, 2012 at 10:04 pm
“…The timing of any climate consequences then being modulated by internal ocean cycling which can either oppose or supplement the solar effects for as long as it takes the thermohaline circulation to run a complete circuit…:
The thermohaline circulation today has to digest a hundered years of warming, while in 1900 the little ice age had ended only about 50 years before..