Fair warning – Don’t click through if you don’t want to read something political in nature.
I’m sensitive to those that don’t want to read that sort of thing, hence the fair warning. Nothing bad here, just a curiosity and I’m wondering if other people in the USA are doing the same thing, so testing it on WUWT’s wide readership will likely help answer it.
I have seen upside down US flags twice now in my town. The first time I just thought it was self commentary, now seeing it a second time in a different part of town, I stopped along E. 5th Avenue to get this shot. I wonder, how many people across the United States are doing the same thing after November 6th? In case you don’t know, flying the flag upside down is a sign of distress or emergency. Flying at half staff is respect for the fallen in service of our country. Combined it makes quite a commentary on the Benghazi incident, the fallen soldiers and ambassador, and the election. Checking the Internet I find there are others doing the same thing now, such as this fellow in South Bend, Indiana. Then there’s the story about an upside down half-staff flag at McDonald’s which has angered a lot of veterans even though it was claimed to be a mistake.
The U.S. Flag code says in section 8:
The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.
Some people consider it flag desecration such as is on par with burning it as political commentary.
I wonder though, if this sort of visual political commentary I’ve seen in my town is being quietly repeated elsewhere since many people now see the USA as being in distress?
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mr boehm- you are now making a completely different logical proposition wherein the evasion of tax (you know- that war-time meashire that was only temporary?) is irrelevant.
alas, you seem to be intent on ignoring who did the taking in the first place.
that may be a defensive mechanism to ignore who produced what was taken in the first place.
is the motive a guilty conscience?
“When an individual takes public monies and pays no taxes, they are by definition takers. It seems you cannot understand that simple concept. Why not?”
D Böehm, you drive on public roads, yet your own dollars have paid for, say, 10 feet or 100 feet of pavement. You are a taker. A moocher, every time that you get behind the wheel.
People who pay no federal income taxes still pay taxes. They pay a lot of taxes, which are a burden given their limited income.
The focus on “takers” is driven by right wing entertainment, talk radio, Fox News, conservative blogs; it is a meme that derives its nourishment from the conservative disenfranchised. The great lie is that the GOP relies on “takers” for votes…do the math.
gnomish:
Apparently you don’t understand simple logic. I was not referring to tax evasion.
.
Thomas T says:
“D Böehm, you drive on public roads, yet your own dollars have paid for, say, 10 feet or 100 feet of pavement.”
Econ was my minor [Dean’s List], and I can say with complete confidence that you are an economic illiterate.
“As was commented earlier in this thread…. democrats don’t hang US flags hehe.”
I do. Despite the conservative belief that the flag is theirs.
Conservatives also believe that God belongs to them…yet God apparently smiles on Obama. Maybe Conservatives should ask themselves why God wants Obama to lead the country (hint: liberals do not believe that Obama is the Messiah, that is a right wing construct.)
Thomas T,
So, what branch of the military did you serve in?
my logic is impeccable.
yours is seriously flawed.
plz review why Adam Smith wrote On the Wealth of Nations and when.
“Econ was my minor [Dean’s List]”
Then why are you being disingenuous with your income tax argument? All working Americans pay taxes. And ALL Americans are takers, since the benefits they receive far, far outweigh the taxes that they pay.
The hilarious part of the “takers” argument is that many of those “takers” voted for Romney.
Tucci78 says:
November 9, 2012 at 11:06 am
“At 10:34 AM on 9 November, Sun Spot demonstrates gaudy historical illiteracy, . . . ”
And further, “The last time Americans got un-civil” is better described by the Vietnam War protests. Do an image-search and thousands of photos can be found – many showing uncivil behavior. Some of us do not need to look at the photos.
At 2:43 PM on 9 November, John F. Hultquist responds to 10:34 AM post by Sun Spot with:
I was myself watching those protests from the sidelines at the time, unconvinced thereby. Either way. I had come to the conclusion that the U.S. Constitution makes it impossible in law for our republic to play “Cops of the World!” or run an empire, but the thieving, murdering official and deliberate bastardliness of the socialists was plain upon their conquistador efforts in Southeast Asia as they’d been everywhere else earlier in the 20th Century. Resisting them – with deadly force, as necessary – seemed a very good idea.
Still does.
I also knew enough even then to understand that rancorous protests in the street do not rise to the level of a civil war, “un-civil” though they may be considered.
That armed conflict might well manifest in our republic as our present efflorescence of socialist bastardliness seeks incrementally to impose itself in violation of the lives, the liberties, and the property rights of our citizenry…. Well, this is nothing I’d seek.
In the words of Churchill (whom our “anticolonialist” Mombasa Messiah so despises that he replaced the bust thereof specifically with a bust of Jimmy “the Malaise” Carter): “To jaw-jaw is always better than to war-war.”
But when peaceful means of remediation prove so consistently bootless, when even the hope of political derailment of this “long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object [which] evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”
Let us bear in mind that our republic got its start when citizens took up arms with which to kill the officers of the crown ordained by God to rule over them.
At 3:36 PM on 9 November, D Böehm pulls up the perennial Mencken quote observing that “…every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods.”
Fond as I am the Sage (and rich as is my library in Menckeniana; hell, I was literally born within sight of 1524 Hollins Street while the man was living and working there), I think when we consider the “takers” and their impact on this most recent “advance auction sale,” we have to go with Frédéric Bastiat (1848):
gnomish,
Your comment is so vague it is meaningless. If you have something you want to say, try to be clear about it.
.
Thomas T,
Read my comments again, then you won’t be so inclined to make your strawman arguments. And if you’re going to address something I wrote, cut and paste it. That will keep you focused.
My point was simple: half of Americans pay zero in federal taxes. Every one of those non-taxpayers receives financial benefits from those the money is taken from. Thus, non-taxpayers are takers by definition. Even you should be able to understand that simple fact.
BTW, you didn’t answer about your military service.
“So, what branch of the military did you serve in?”
Do you mean, I am a “taker”, if I did not serve? That would be an odd question with regard the Presidential election, since neither Romney or Obama served.
As an outside observer I would agree that the USA is in great distress and danger. Do not trust your Government, it is corrupt to the core.
“Do not blame Caesar, blame the people of Rome who have so enthusiastically acclaimed and adored him and rejoiced in their loss of freedom and danced in his path and gave him triumphal processions. Blame the people who hail him when he speaks in the Forum of the ‘new, wonderful, good society’ which shall now be Rome’s, interpreted to mean: more money, more ease, more security, more living fatly at the expense of the industrious.” — Marcus Tullius Cicero
I found the above on Small Dead Animals to be appropriate at this time.
It was written, I believe shortly before the fall of the Roman Republic
.http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.–George Santayana
Thomas T. says:
November 9, 2012 at 2:23 pm
“As was commented earlier in this thread…. democrats don’t hang US flags hehe.”
I do. Despite the conservative belief that the flag is theirs.
Conservatives also believe that God belongs to them…yet God apparently smiles on Obama. Maybe Conservatives should ask themselves why God wants Obama to lead the country (hint: liberals do not believe that Obama is the Messiah, that is a right wing construct.)
======================================================================
Amplified Bible 2 Corinthians 4:4 For the god of this world has blinded the unbelievers’ minds [that they should not discern the truth], preventing them from seeing the illuminating light of the Gospel of the glory of Christ (the Messiah), Who is the Image and Likeness of God.
There is a “god of this world”, as the KJV puts it, who still has some authority in this world but his lease is running out. If you want to bring “God” into this, you should have used a small “g”.
(I’d say more but I think we’ve both ventured far into “snip” territory.)
Thomas T,
You would have been a better man if you had stepped up to the plate and served your country.
Democracy needs a population of people who are willing to accept the result of a majority vote. In a country where that ceases to be true then democracy has a hard time working.
In the end more than they wanted freedom, they wanted security. When the Athenians finally wanted not to give to society but for society to give to them, when the freedom they wished for was freedom from responsibility, then Athens ceased to be free.
~ Edward Gibbon (“Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire”)
“The flag should never be displayed with the union down, except as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property.”
Guys, I don’t know how you feel about it (because I am most definitely not American), but your public debt is increasing at a most alarming rate indeed. In 2008 it used to be $19,945.36 per capita (42.1% of GDP), while it is $37,952.73 per capita (76.3% of GDP) right now. In Hungary we are in a pretty dire economic condition with a public debt at 70.3% of annual GDP, with all kinds of restrictive policies in effect for some time now, so I suppose it can’t go on like this for much longer in the U.S. of A. either, otherwise the union gets down for sure.
As soon as it happens, dire distress is inevitable. It can even pose extreme danger to life or property of some. VAT is 27% in Hungary right now. Just saying.
I’ll probably ruffle feathers saying this. Flying the flag upside down, at full mast, or at half mast, really confines all three acts to the sphere of nationalism. If the flag is symbolic to you in some way other than state propaganda, then I don’t have a problem with it. But in most cases, this is another example of people’s hopeless deference to the state, even in times of crisis. I wonder how many owners of these flags voted for a sociopath this week? I ponder about remembering soldiers who died for their ‘country’, -a single word which transforms state murder into pride. I believe this is all a ruse to extinguish people’s suspicion of government. Communism, Terrorism, capitalism, lack of aggregate demand, whatever.
I remember thinking the same thing about occupy. Here were a bunch of disenfranchised, willing to empower regulators who were complicit in engineering the housing bubble.
The state has all angles covered.
Ian H
What you need is Demarchy, not Democracy.
“But great as our tax burden is, it has not kept pace with public spending. For decades we have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and our children’s future for the temporary convenience of the present. To continue this long trend is to guarantee tremendous social, cultural, political, and economic upheavals.
“You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but for only a limited period of time. Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we’re not bound by that same limitation?
“The economic ills we suffer have come upon us over several decades. They will not go away in days, weeks, or months, but they will go away.
“It is no coincidence that our present troubles parallel and are proportionate to the intervention and intrusion in our lives that result from unnecessary and excessive growth of government.recedes
“All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create the states; the states created the federal government.
“In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem.”
~ Ronald Reagan, Inaugural Address, January 20, 1981
After Reagan was elected the country enjoyed twenty five years of prosperity. He slashed income taxes, which in turn generated much more government income, not less. He cut corporate tax rates, too.
If the same thing were done today, the result would be the same.
“You would have been a better man if you had stepped up to the plate and served your country.”
Step away from the internet, D Böehm, your strange questions and comments show that you would be a better man if you did.
I suggest – be American, manufacture two bumper stickers – “I voted for Obama” and “I didn’t vote for Obama” wait 12 months and see which one sells best, thirdly perhaps “I didn’t vote for THIS” which might suit both sides and make you some money.
I hate to disappoint Thomas T, but he is impotent. How could the puppy get me to ‘step away’? Only a fool writes things they cannot enforce.
I notice that TT likes to categorize everyone else in a derogatory manner. But he is quick to try and head off what he apparently fears: “liberals do not believe that Obama is the Messiah”
Actually, liberals do not believe in much of anything, except maybe taxing success.
Anthony, Interesting observation. My first guess is that inverting the USA flag is what a few of us do when they don’t get their way. That is, a practice carried out by our “sunshine patriots”. Not everyone thinks it is fair that the one who got the most vote wins. I also knew of some folks who thought it was unfair when the candidate who got fewer votes won in 2000 – but I don’t recall seeing inverted flags then. This must be quite a different group of patriots.
I was looking for a particular quote by Jefferson and found out he didn’t say it. Here’s the quote I was looking for plus few others.
From Alexander Tyler. No, he wasn’t writing about the United States. This quote is well over one hundred years old. Tyler was writing about the fall of the Athenian Republic.
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasure. From that moment on the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most money from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.”
“In general the art of government consists in taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give to the other.” –Voltaire
“Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.” –William Pitt the Younger, British Prime Minister 1783-1801 and 1804-1806
“For in a Republic, who is “the country?” Is it the Government which is for the moment in the saddle? Why, the Government is merely a servant–merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn’t. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.” –Mark Twain
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” –10th Amendment to the United States Constitution
“We, the people, are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts; not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow men who pervert the Constitution.” –Abraham Lincoln
“The American people will never knowingly adopt Socialism. But, under the name of ‘liberalism’, they will adopt every fragment of the Socialist program, until one day America will be a socialist nation, without knowing how it happened.” –Norman Thomas, former U.S. Socialist Party Presidential Candidate
“The point to remember is that what the government gives, it must first take away.” –John S. Coleman
The inherent vice of capitalism is the uneven division of blessings, while the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal division of misery. –Winston Churchill