Younger Dryas -The Rest of the Story!

WUWT readers may recall this recent story: New evidence of Younger Dryas extraterrestrial impact The story below provides much more detail about the Younger Dryas event and the split that has developed in the scientific community over the cause. I’ve added this graph below from NCDC to give readers a sense of time and magnitude of the event. – Anthony

The Younger Dryas cold interval as viewed from central Greenland. From:
Quaternary Science Reviews Volume 19, Issues 1-5, 1 January 2000, Richard B. Alley
Guest Post By: Rodney Chilton www.bcclimate.com

A consideration of many other very important factors that should be considered as well as the “Black Mats and Nanodiamonds”

ABSTRACT:

The genesis of the Younger Dryas stadial (cold interval) remains an enigma. The onset was both climatologically unexpected and extremely sudden. The two principle theories are diametrically opposed and the proponents of both deeply committed. The debate to date has primarily been centred on some unusual “black mat” deposits that may or may not be linked to a cosmic origin. What has been lacking in the wider discussion are all the other important features associated with the Younger Dryas. The following addresses many of these, in hopes of their inclusion in future debate.

AND NOW THE REST OF THE STORY:

The Younger Dryas onset remains a little understood event. The cause of the 1,300 year-long interval continues to be debated. There are two completely different theories that have split the scientific community. One group strongly endorses an overall slowing or complete stoppage of the Northern Atlantic Ocean circulation 13,000 years ago. The other camp maintains that a catastrophic event originating from the cosmos was the cause.

Following on the heels of the mostly milder Bølling and Allerød intervals (interstadials), there was an extremely sudden and severe climate reversal, this was the Younger Dryas, first detected from Danish pollen studies as long ago as the mid 1930’s. Pollen from the Dryas flower, an arctic species lends its name to this very cold interval. The Younger Dryas cold was first thought to have been confined to north-west Europe, with a possible extension to some other localities immediately surrounding the North Atlantic. More recently however, the cold climate shift is seen as world-wide in extent or nearly so.

The Younger Dryas appeared similar to earlier events known as Heinrich events that were prominent in the Pleistocene (approximately 70,000 to 14,000 years ago) (1). Their cause is not altogether clear, but marine cores, primarily in the north-east Atlantic are festooned with layers of sand, pebbles and rock (lithic materials). These deposits arrived in this area carried on “large armadas” of ice that upon melting deposited their lodes onto ocean bottoms. Rapid climate shifts have been linked to ice melt from sea ice and the large continental glaciers that surrounded the North Atlantic. Lower salinity meltwater is less dense than ocean water and tends to float as a freshwater cap over the marine waters, and this is perceived as associated with North Atlantic Ocean circulation disruption. The Younger Dryas is understood to be linked primarily with meltwater almost solely from the great continental ice sheets.

North Atlantic Ocean circulation has been likened to a great ribbon-like conveyor belt (2). Driven by temperature (thermo) and salinity (haline) differences, the thermohaline (THC) circulation is associated with the formation of North Atlantic Deep Water (NADW). The sinking of the NADW is alleged to result in the drawing north of warmer waters from southerly climes. This provides north-west Europe with its generally mild climate. However all of this is thought to change when the North Atlantic Ocean circulation slowed or stopped.

It has been proposed that a sudden immense amount of fresh water disrupted the THC approximately 13,000 years ago, and the most likely source was eastern North America’s Laurentide Ice Sheet (3). This particular scenario is presumed to have been affiliated with the relocation of freshwater outflow that had been exiting via the Mississippi River with entry into the Gulf of Mexico. Presumably, an alternate route, the more northerly St. Lawrence corridor became available as the Laurentide Glacier retreated (4). As time has passed however, this idea has largely been abandoned. Not only did salinity levels in the off shore waters adjacent to the St. Lawrence remain the same during the Younger Dryas (5), but the St. Lawrence route remained blocked by ice until well after the Younger Dryas ended (6).

Failure of the St. Lawrence River to deliver the melt has lead to alternative freshwater routes proposed. One of these involves the continent of Antarctica. The idea suggested here is that a significant increase in meltwater entry into world oceans took place approximately 14,300 to 14,600 years ago (7). An inundation known as “meltwater – pulse 1a” (mwp-1a) occurred with perhaps as much as 90% of the meltwater volume originating from Antarctica (8). This premise has the Antarctic melt as affecting the North Atlantic region, but with a significant delay (the bipolar see-saw concept where at least Antarctic climate is out of phase with the Northern Hemisphere). The eventual arrival of the Antarctica melt waters is seen then, as making the North Atlantic vulnerable to even modest amounts of meltwater (9). Presumably, the final threshold was crossed 13,000 BP, allowing the North Atlantic to become disrupted (10). Not all researchers share this view, as at least one study assigned a much different date for mwp-1a, and that was shortly before 13,800 BP (11). And although these scientists also conclude slowing or shutdown of the North Atlantic, the Antarctic as a source becomes questionable.

Since the Antarctic theory appeared, a number of other possible North Atlantic meltwater sources have been suggested. The first of these considered meltwater from the Laurentide as flowing northward through the Canadian Arctic via the Hudson Strait before reaching the North Atlantic (12). A second route was proposed more recently, and this was freshwater flowing across Arctic Canada from the main Laurentide source, Lake Agassiz, then down the Mackenzie River and into the Arctic Ocean (13). The first of these meltwater corridors has now been shown to have remained blocked by ice throughout the early Younger Dryas, much like the St. Lawrence (14), and the second pathway, the Mackenzie, required adjustments to both the Laurentide Ice Sheet and the underlying landmass, before model simulations even allowed meltwater flow to take place (15).

As just mentioned, the main Laurentide meltwater source originated in the huge glacial lake, Agassiz. Most research has indicated that there was a significant lowering of the lake approximately 13,000 years ago. The assumption to date has been that most of the water exited by one corridor or another. However, recent research has suggested that Lake Agassiz may not have experienced very much rapid outflow at all. Dr. Thomas Lowell of the University of Cincinnati contends that lake lowering resulted primarily from open lake evaporation when the lake was ice-free and some sublimation when it was frozen (16). However, this too has been disputed by another study that questions the very high rate of evaporation that the Lowell findings contend; this at a time when the climate was presumably very cold (17). The scientists who criticized the evaporation idea however fall back on the now implausible St. Lawrence meltwater route (18).

Certainly a very important question regarding the Younger Dryas is what effects, if any, were felt elsewhere in the world (away from the immediate confines of the North Atlantic). There are some indications that one outcome was similar to the most recent Heinrich event, specifically a warming of one to two degrees Celsius in the western tropical Atlantic and the Caribbean (19). The reason given for this warming is evidence of a response to strengthened easterly trade winds, which causes greater amounts of warm water to be driven into the Gulf of Mexico (20). Well to the west, on the north coast of South America the same stronger trade winds may also have induced ocean upwelling (21).

The evidence for the greater ocean upwelling is increased ocean productivity within the Cariaco Basin (22). However, the very premise of a trade wind induced warmer Caribbean and western tropical Atlantic during the Younger Dryas is now seen as suspect. Recent studies have shown that south-east portions of North America, the Caribbean and western tropical Atlantic all became much drier and colder at this time (23,24). Central America, for instance, shows a 300-400 metre lowering of the subalpine tree line. This is equivalent to a two to three degree Celsius temperature decrease (25). A number of other studies also indicate colder temperatures.

One of the more important proxies comes from the Orca Basin within the Gulf of Mexico. This is a very interesting study, dependent upon the assessment of certain specific marine organisms. This has allowed scientists to make some startling conclusions. An organism, Globigerinoides Ruber (a species tolerant of high salinity and cold ocean temperatures), when compared to five other marine species less tolerant of cold and high salinity depicted a sudden change in the Orca Basin ecology 13,000 BP (26). Originally, the Orca Basin was thought to have become much more saline, the result of a sudden diversion of meltwater from the Mississippi to the St. Lawrence corridor. However, the eastward meltwater route has now been shown to have been implausible. Instead, it now appears that the Orca Basin experienced a five or six degree drop in ocean temperature. (27). This has recently been confirmed by a new study that depicts significantly colder SST occurred within the Orca Basin region (28). All of this is consistent with a meltwater pulse continuing down the Mississippi and not flowing into the St. Lawrence.

It is interesting too, that the Younger Dryas is now seen has being a widespread event that extended well beyond the North Atlantic. The cold and predominately dry interval is now documented from all across North America and northward as far as Alaska. South America also experienced a definitive climate shift to a predominately cold and arid regime. This included the Amazon Basin, covering a significant portion of the tropical and subtropical latitudes of South America. Indications of an extreme drop in Amazon River levels to as little as 40% to 60% of present day levels are evident (29). Lake Junin (11° S), a high elevation lake in the northern Andes is a second proxy showing an arid Younger Dryas, as lake levels were at their very lowest for the last 14,000 years (30). Not only did the climate become drier, it appears to have become colder too. Certainly the two to three degrees Celsius cooling, in Colombia is an indicator (31). The aforementioned very low Amazon River level may well have been a response to decreased snowmelt and run-off from a colder Andes mountain chain.

Further to the south in the Altiplano region (15° to 23° S), the climate during cold intervals like the Younger Dryas is expected to be wet (32). However, 13,000 years ago there appears to have been an exception (33). Indications are from the glacier Sajama (18° S) that a retreat of the glacier occurred, much as Glacier Quelccaya had done a little further to the north (both likely responding to a drier and colder habitat) (34). Further, considering once again the very low Amazon water levels, the Altiplano source region also appears to have been experiencing a decrease in precipitation.

Aside from a study from the Great Australian Bight (32° –35° S) (35) and an area near the edge of Antarctica (36) where distinct cooling was evident 13,000 years ago, the remainder of the Southern Hemisphere does not show a definitive warming or cooling trend.

Antarctica, at least the interior portions of the continent, may well be a different matter entirely. Here, the analysis of ice cores depicts a climate out of sync with the rest of the planet. Research suggests that very strong downslope (katabatic) winds prevent weather (climate) from penetrating any appreciable distance inland (37). However, it must be said that conclusions as to the Antarctic climate during the Younger Dryas are far from certain. There are problems having to do with the generally very light snowfall that is a feature of Antarctica.. This prevents researchers from accurately differentiating climate intervals of less than about 2,000 years (38).

One type of methodology that permits past climate to be assessed depends upon the analysis of various gases that become trapped within ice after being deposited as snow within ice sheets throughout the world. The worldwide dispersion of most gases only takes one or two years, this allows comparisons of relative gas concentrations in localities as far apart as Greenland and Antarctica. The alignment of ice cores from low snowfall Antarctic and higher snowfall Greenland permits scientists to differentiate past climate. The problem is that it takes many years for the gas to be completely sealed off from the present day atmosphere. This varies between low snowfall areas like Vostok in Antarctica, where it takes as long as 2,500 to 6,000 years to “close off’ (depending upon the age of the ice deposit) to about 60 to 100 years in Greenland cores (39). The technique, while very good in determining the longer-term glacial and interglacial periods, at least in Antarctica is clearly inadequate for shorter-term events such as the Younger Dryas.

The continued contention that the North Atlantic was the principle trigger of the Younger Dryas has relied heavily upon a number of marine cores from the Atlantic. The first of these cores comes from the Bermuda Rise (EN120GGC1 – (33° 40’ N., 57° 37’ W)), where the analysis of benthic profiles of carbon 12 and 13 isotopes, along with cadmium/calcium ratios theoretically shows North Atlantic Ocean circulation disruption (40). However, a number of problems have been identified that relate to the Bermuda Rise marine core. Before analysis could be done a comparison was required with another marine core, CH73-139C (54° 30’ N., 16° 21’ W.), a core now found to have been affected by a condition called “bioturbation” (an unwanted mixing of the marine sedimentary layers) (41). This prevents precise dating as to the time when the slowing or stoppage of the ocean circulation occurred (42). A second problem with the samples from Bermuda Rise is its location. Rather than sampling the desired amounts of deep water from the North Atlantic and Antarctic, it appears to be sampling an area where a localized mixing of ocean waters took place, that once again prevents accurate assessments (43).

The marine species Neogloboquadriana pacyderma, a polar organism displayed a definitive shift in population approximately 13,000 years ago, both at a marine core, Troll 3.1 (60° 47’N., 03° 43’W.), just west of Norway, and a second core V23-81 (54°02’N., 16° 08’ W.), just off Ireland’s west coast (44). Both of these studies have been drawn upon to deduce that a slowing or complete shutdown of the North Atlantic Ocean circulation occurred 13,000 BP. A third study, that utilizes diatoms, (much more sensitive than Neogloboquadriana pacyderma), is very likely more appropriate in discerning relatively brief cold intervals such as the Younger Dryas (45). This study from the South-east Norwegian Sea does show a definitive shift of five to six degrees Celsius. However, that may or may not necessarily be attributable to North Atlantic circulation disruption (46). The following quote highlights the researchers caution when they stated, “there is evidence that cooling was related to reduced salinities, but this does not prove a direct causal relationship that cooling was directly forced by meltwater events” (47). The shift instead may simply have been the result of changes in the relative number of polar and arctic organisms (48).

The inference drawn is that cold intervals such as the Younger Dryas may well have another altogether different trigger than North Atlantic Ocean circulation. Further to this, a somewhat more recent paper, also by the same researchers that conducted the study in the Norwegian Sea indicates, that a reduction in incoming solar radiation might be the trigger that initiates fluctuations in the polar front in the Nordic Seas (49). It is very intriguing that a reduction in incoming solar radiation may have occurred at a time when during the summer a maximum of solar energy should have been occurring (see ref. 75).

The whole concept of North Atlantic Ocean circulation as having any appreciable influence upon the Younger Dryas is placed further in doubt by the work of Dr. Michael Sarnthein. Dr. Sarnthein has collected a large number of marine cores from throughout the Atlantic sampling the interval back to 30,000 before present (BP).

The conclusion gleaned from his work reveals that the North Atlantic Ocean circulation was operative during the Younger Dryas, and had been so for more than 1,500 years prior to the start of this cold period (50). This is consistent with one other high-resolution marine core from the South Atlantic (presumably a good location to detect North Atlantic shifts) that does not show a slowing or shutdown of the North Atlantic (51).

Oceanographer Dr. Carl Wunsch has gone so far as to suggest that the whole concept of a temperature and salinity induced ocean circulation shift is in error, at least in the North Atlantic (52). Dr. Wunsch also believes that the North Atlantic is simply too small to cause significant climate changes in other parts of the world (53). Dr. Wunsch was even more emphatic about the role of the North Atlantic in climate changes when he stated that “you can’t turn the Gulf Stream off as long as wind blows in the North Atlantic” and then goes on to say that “the conveyor is kind of fairy tale for grownups”(54). Dr. Richard Alley seems to echo these sentiments when he questioned how the small high latitude North Atlantic “energy starved polar tail” could possibly “wag the large energy rich tropical dog”(55).

Apart from this, the presence of a less dense freshwater cap may not result in what many scientists see as a cooling at all. Instead, Dr. Richard Fairbanks sometime ago suggested that the presence of a shallow freshwater lid over more saline waters might be subject to rapid warming during the summer and early autumn (56). Thus, instead of the commonly perceived shift to cold associated with the presence of freshwater within the North Atlantic may well result in warming. This of course is the exact opposite of what many scientists currently believe occurred during the Younger Dryas. All of this presumes that there may have been a less saline North Atlantic at this time. However, according to many scientists there was an absence of meltwater entering world oceans approximately 13,000 BP, thereby making this scenario unlikely.

There are in addition a number of other perplexing factors apparent during the Younger Dryas: Carbon 14 (14C), for instance, increased markedly by 70% to 80% at the very beginning of the cold interval (57,58,59). This far exceeds the expected 30% or 35% 14C increase when the North Atlantic allegedly slows or shuts down (60,61). The consideration of possible 14C increases from geomagnetic changes or increased sea ice coverage are also thought to be quite insignificant (62). A second element, Beryllium 10 (10Be), also increased significantly approximately 13,000 years ago. Snowfall at this time in Antarctica and Greenland was much reduced, and it is this that some scientists see as the cause for higher 10Be concentrations (63). The contention is that the snow that did fall removed as effectively the beryllium from the atmosphere, thereby resulting in higher concentrations within ice. However, an alternative view is seen as plausible, and that is simply that there was much more 10Be in the atmosphere during the Younger Dryas (64,65). Both of these elemental forms are known to be products of cosmic events that therefore lend credence to the Impact Hypothesis.

Two other deposits within Greenland and Antarctica glacial ice display interesting characteristics as well. Nitrates are one of these, and though very difficult to analyze, there appears to be little doubt that much of the increase 13,000 BP was attributable to very high amounts in the atmosphere (66,67). A second deposit, ammonium, was also greatly elevated during the Younger Dryas. The predominate origin for Younger Dryas ammonia that arrives in Greenland is North America, and one reason proposed for very high levels is that biological activity remained very prominent because of a continuation of a mild climate (68). However, it is now known that North America did become significantly colder at this time, therefore making greater biological activity extremely unlikely. Thus, there are more questions than answers about the possible origins of the elevated levels of both nitrates and ammonium.

Even more intriguing, and more controversial as well, are a number of other deposits found both in soil and ice, possibly linked to a cosmic origin (69). Associated with an unusual “black mat” deposit found in many of the terrestrial sites, the dates for this layer are very close to the 13,000 BP Younger Dryas beginnings (70). What has garnered most of the attention thus far, are features called “nanodiamonds.” One way in which nanodiamonds are produced is under very high temperatures and pressures (consistent with a cosmic origin). Scientists such as geologist Dr. Allen West contends that approximately 13,000 years ago “ a low density object” entered the Earth’s atmosphere, disintegrated explosively, and the remnants of the catastrophe rained down upon the planet (71). The signatures (including nanodiamonds)of this event were left behind throughout a widespread area that includes Europe, the Greenland Ice Sheet and North and South America (72,73,74).

Another perplexing feature of the Younger Drays is that it was a time of increased solar insolation during the summer months. Solar receipt during summer months when received associated with “June perihelion.” Somewhat surprisingly, it is the summer months that are most critical to snow and ice being retained from one year to the next at the Northern Hemisphere high latitudes (75). This particular alignment has occurred forty-two times over the past one million years and the Younger Dryas is noted as the only significant cold interval (76).

Two final features to be noted about the Younger Dryas, is that it took hold, not in decades as was once thought, but rather in as little time as a few years, or even less (77,78). This is but another piece of the puzzle that does not fit with the whole premise of an ocean induced short-term cold climate interval. It may be concluded that an alternative hypothesis, that of a very large cosmic event took place not that far from Earth, 13,000 years ago. All things considered, the evidence that supports this cosmic origin is available in much greater detail elsewhere, though a number of scientific papers are referenced here.

Concluding Remarks:

Despite all of the preceding discussion as to its numerous shortcomings, the North Atlantic Ocean circulation as cause for the Younger Dryas, remains the most widely accepted hypothesis. During the past several years, however, a debate on what is seen by many as a much more plausible trigger, one that involves either a very close comet passage or even a possible impact event that had transpired. To date, the primary focus in attempts to justify a cosmic origin for the Younger Dryas has been almost totally limited to black mat deposits (specifically nanodiamonds), that have been detected in various parts of the world. This is far too limited an approach!

It is the purpose of this paper to attempt to raise the profile of the long list of other very important clues that also require consideration. An in conclusion, a list of many of the most important aspects are listed as follows:

  1. The North Atlantic Ocean circulation (known as the THC) slowing or shutdown was not triggered by meltwater suddenly shunted down the St. Lawrence, nor was it likely to have flowed north through Arctic Canada. Nor was the continent of Antarctica involved in Younger Dryas forcing.
  2. Furthermore, dating of significant meltwater entries into the world’s ocean have not been shown as contemporary with the Younger Dryas onset.
  3. The main marine cores drawn upon as evidence for the THC hypothesis have either proven to be unreliable, or in some other cases only circumstantial.
  4. And in contrast, with the just mentioned marine cores, are the proxies collected by Dr. Michael Sarnthein that depict the North Atlantic Ocean circulation as operative during the Younger Dryas and much as 1,500 years before the interval, as well throughout the Younger Dryas. In fact, the North Atlantic appeared to have been operative as much as 1,500 year before the start of the interval, and continued right on through the period as well.
  5. Increases of both 14C and 10Be are much too large to be associated with the North Atlantic Ocean circulation disruption.
  6. Also, as time as gone in it is becoming increasingly evident that the onset of the Younger Dryas was indicative of atmospheric origins for the event, in that the onset was so very rapid, perhaps in one year or less.
  7. Finally, it should also be stated that such an extraordinarily severe and long-lasting event occurred at a time when glacial and sea ice expansion took place despite a peaking of solar radiation in the most critical summer months.

Acknowledgements:

My thanks to Steve Garcia and Clint Unwin for their valuable suggestions, and thorough editing of the foregoing paper. Also to Reed Kirkpatrick for keeping me apprised of some specific subject areas.

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60) M. Legrand and S. Kirchner, “Origins and Variations of Nitrates in South Polar Precipitation,” (1990): Journal of Geophysical Research 95, 3493-3507.

61) K. Fuhrer and M. Legrand, “Continental Biogenic Species in the Greenland Ice Core Project Ice Core: Tracing Back the Biomass History of the North America Continent,” (1997): Journal of Geophysical Research 102 C12, 26735–26745.

62) R.B Firestone et al., “Evidence for an Extraterrestrial Impact 12,9000 Years Ago that Contributed to the Megafaunal Extinctions and the Younger Dryas,” (2007): PNAS 104 #41, 16016-16021.

63) Heather Pringle, “Firestorm from Space Wiped out Prehistoric Americans,” (2007): New Scientist 8-9.

64) Ibid.

65) R.B Firestone et al., “Evidence for an Extraterrestrial Impact 12,9000 Years Ago that Contributed to the Megafaunal Extinctions and the Younger Dryas,” (2007): PNAS 104 #41, 16016-16021.

66) W.C. Mahaney et al., (2010) “Evidence from the North-western Venezuelan Andes for Extraterrestrial Impact: The Black Mat Enigma,” http://www.science.com

67) A.V. Kurbatov et al., “Discovery of a Nanodiamond – Rich Layer in the Greenland Ice Sheet,” (2010): Journal of Glaciology 56, 749-758.

68) B. Molfino and A. McIntyre, “Nutricline Variation in the Equatorial Atlantic Coincident with the Younger Dryas,” (1990): Paleoceaography 5, 997-1008.

69) Ibid.

70) J. P. Steffenson et al., “High-Resolution Greenland Ice Core Data Show Abrupt Climate Change Happens in a Few Years,” (2008): Science 321, 680-683.

71) K. Ravillious” Ice Age Took Hold in Less than a Year,” (2009): New Scientist, 10.

Rodney R. Chilton, a climatologist for the past thirty years, is interested in a number of nature’s mysteries, including the enigmatic Younger Dryas. The author resides on southern Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada.

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clipe
June 18, 2012 3:15 pm

“Plus il fait chaud, plus ça gèle”
The next morning I started early from Arzier, having an afternoon
journey in prospect to the neighbourhood of another glacière, and was
accompanied by Captain Douglas Smith, of the 4th Regiment. On our way to
La Genollière, we came across the man who had served as guide the day
before, and a short conversation respecting the glacière ensued. He had
only seen it once, many years before, and he held stoutly to the usual
belief of the peasantry, that the ice is formed in summer, and melts in
winter; a belief which everything I had then seen contradicted. His last
words as we parted were, ‘_Plus il fait chaud, plus ça gèle_;’ and,
paradoxical as it may appear, I believe that some truth was concealed in
what he said, though not as he meant it. Considering that his ideas were
confined to his cattle and their requirements, and that water is often
very difficult to find in that part of the Jura, a _hot_ summer would
probably mean with him a _dry_ summer, that is, a summer which does not
send down much water to thaw the columns in the cave. Extra heat in the
air outside, at any season, does not, as experience of these caves
proves abundantly, produce very considerable disturbance of their low
temperature, and so summer water is a much worse enemy than extra summer
heat; and if the caves could be protected from water in the hot season,
the columns in them would know how to resist the possible–but very
small–increase of temperature due to the excess of heat of one summer
above another. And since the eye is most struck by the appearance of the
stalagmites and ice-cascades, it may well be that the peasants have seen
these standing at the end of an unusually hot and dry summer, and have
thence concluded that hot summers are the best time for the formation of
ice. Of course, at the beginning of the winter after a hot summer, there
will be on these terms a larger nucleus of ice; and so it will become
true that the hotter the year, the more ice there will be, both during
the summer itself and after the following winter.

http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=1493951&pageno=11
http://www.gutenberg.org/ebooks/14012
Might seem off topic but that’s where this discussion lead me. Blame Google.

clipe
June 18, 2012 3:24 pm

led me, not lead me

D. J. Hawkins
June 18, 2012 3:41 pm

From the article:

…Instead, Dr. Richard Fairbanks sometime ago suggested that the presence of a shallow freshwater lid over more saline waters might be subject to rapid warming during the summer and early autumn (56)…

Several locations, notably Israel, have experimented with solar ponds. With the right salinity gradient, you can prevent convective transfer. In the thermal storage layer, the water can get up to 90 centigrade.

Elizabeth Elmore
June 18, 2012 3:58 pm

George E. Smith; says:
June 17, 2012 at 11:51
You sound pretty frustrated and invested in being pissed off.
And also navel centric, smug dead wrong.
America has always been a public/private enterprise.Go back to any of the great fortunes, and other than the ones in cosmetics most of them start with a public purpose and government contract. Tiffany’s, DuPont, Boeing, EDS, McDonnell Douglas, and the rail roads come to mind, as well as the drug companies who commercialize NIH developed drugs, then there is the oil and gas industries with their tremendous process development subsidies by the military and their oil depletion allowance to assure they never pay taxes. Private capitol has always been loathe to invest in new physics. They let the government develop the backbone and then flesh it out into a marketable product. Not that the government could not, when the Navy was mandated to do their overhauls in private yards to keep those yards in business, we now get 1/2 the overhaul at twice the price and without the Navy to protect the sea lanes there would be no bulk world trade. But please continue bitching. And then there is the Post Office, which is now in trouble, not because it is efficent, or because of it’s union workforce, but because the Corp-li-con Congress of a few years ago mandated payments into the pension fund that pre-fund USPS pensions for the next 30 years to handicap the post office against Fed EX and UPS.
And I am FAR from being an insider in solar energy. I have never even SEEN a Solar City commercial, much less have a financial interest in them. I looked them up because UT at Austin put solar cells on the roof of one of the structures there and got better than expected results, not only cooling the building, but turning it into a net energy producer for the last several years.
About government being on your back, go to one of the countries that has the tax rate you want to pay. Take a look around. If it is not an oil sheikdom what you see is a few rich enclaves, pot holes, and poverty. What your taxes are supposed to buy in this country is infrastructure, investment in knowledge, and a reasonable and consistent set of rules for us all to play by. It is also my frustration with the corporate capture of regulators that consistent enforcement of reasonable rules is not happening.

George E. Smith;
June 18, 2012 5:23 pm

Well Elizabeth, so you looked up Solar City on Goggle or whatever, and became an instant expert on solar energy. You see there are some good competent people working diligently, to try and make some form of capturable solar energy, practical and affordable. That does Not include me; and I have never worked in any energy field, including PV solar; but PV technology has always been perpheral to the semiconductor business; which includes the LED busines, with which I am very familiar, so I have studied and learned about the solar energy option for as long as I have been active in the other end.
In your list of Government (taxpayer) originated businesses, and industries, you forgot to mention Microsoft, and Apple; oh I see I am reading the wrong list; that is the ones started in people’s garages or kitchens; pretty much the way we once started what at one time the largest LED business in the world. Seems like Hewlett Packard, and Tektronix, also started by individuals, with not a lick of taxpayer funding.
Odd that you should mention the NIH, as the inventor of our beneficial drugs. A lifelong friend, now retired from the U of Miami, worked in concert with NIH all his impressive career, and was considered for director of NIH, until he let on he was ready to retire, not go into administration. He now lives around Atlanta near NIH and keeps contact with the folks there as does his equally impressiver and also retired wife; so I actualy have some idea what NIH does, and doesn’t do.
You mention what our taxes are supposed to buy; I think you called it infrastructure. That presumably includes 200 MPH trains that go from nowhere to nowhere else, with no customers at either end.
I’m sure American taxpayers would rejoice if governments at all levels simply taxed them, and paid for what they are mandated to pay for in US and State Constitutions. In the case of the US Constitution and the Congress, that authorizes them to tax us to pay the National debt, and to provide for the common Defense (the military) and welfare of the United States (AKA Washington DC)… Nowhere are they authorized to tax us to pay for the “welfare” of tom, dick, and harry, nor any of the other things they take it upon themselves to waste resources on.
And back more on subject; even NASA which was one of the best joint taxpayer/industry/scientific collaborations in all of history. seems to have been side tracked into promoting the mythology of catastrophic man made climate change; the green agenda, which is an adjunct of the old world communist agenda of people control. Who after all, is against clean air and clean water.
So I’ll give you Elizabeth, total control of the earth mean surface Temperature; (what the donnybrook is all about). So it currently is circa 59 deg F, say 288 Kelvins.
So what Temperature will you set it to and why. The current total surface Temperature range on the planet goes from about -90 deg C to about +60 deg C, possibly on some upcoming late summer day (northern) or 183K to 333K, and it seems the average may have drifted perhaps 0.6 deg C or 1 deg F from ancient pre big oil comfort zones. So where will you move it to Elizabeth; and why that value ?
You could try “looking up” for some help; maybe the U of Austen has an idea; but I’d rather you used your own ideas.
As to Steve P.’s comment/query, those wonderful muscle bound hero worshippers who currently shower in their water rich LA basin’s tinseltown , gave us their choice to run the world’s sixth largest economy, now rapidly moving up the list to maybe 9th or 10th place, and all the twooty texting teeners gave us their hope and change dictatorship, that simply sidesteps the control system, that our founders bequeathed to us in their wisdom.
You can goggle and wiki for answers Elizbeth; there was a time when people actually learned something themselves, so they could work from a secure base of knowledge, rather than blindly accept the unproven ideas of others.
As to Steve’s comment re the Taurids, I’m interested if he could elaborate the linkage between specific meteor systems, and historic climate events such as OD and YD; didn’t occur to me there might be such specific linkage to well known repeating showers.

June 18, 2012 6:19 pm

Elizabeth Elmore,
Sorry to hear about your unpleasant experience. But on balance, the government causes more problems, and more serious problems, than it solves. It is far too big and expensive, and government’s #1 priority is government, not the citizens that it is supposed to serve.
The Constitution was written with one goal in mind: to protect the citizens from government. Conniving rascals that they tend to be, people in government have found ways to subvert the Constitution, until it now means exactly the opposite of what was intended.
And as George Smith says: What your taxes are supposed to buy in this country is infrastructure, investment in knowledge, and a reasonable and consistent set of rules for us all to play by. It is also my frustration with the corporate capture of regulators that consistent enforcement of reasonable rules is not happening.
Government officials and bureaucrats love nothing better than to hear folks complaining about one perceived excess in the private sector, because it takes the sppotlight of of the almost universal excesses of government meddling and conniving with big business at the expense of ordinary citizens.

Steve P
June 18, 2012 8:37 pm

George, I think the Taurids have been considered a likely suspect source for any prehistoric impacts or air bursts simply because they represent the largest field or stream of debris/matter in the inner solar system, which we cross summer and fall. Apparently the most dense field of debris comes and goes in c3000 year cycles, may not be well-mixed – an important point – and we may be out of the cross-hairs for now.
Clube & Napier’s The Cosmic Serpent was my introduction to these ideas, now termed “coherent catastrophism” to get separation from you-know-whom, but C & N, along with others, also see the possibility that some impacts may have had cultural significance in the historical period, so there you are.
It’s my understanding that both Los Angeles and San Francisco voted against the recall of Gov. Gray Davis.
I think Elizabeth is correct in her idea that attempts to dismantle American industry began in earnest under Pres. Reagan. Rather than use its power wisely to prevent this destruction of our own security, our government deregulated to make it easier, and Ron never missed his cue to promise to “get government off our backs!”
Most people are suckers for Hollywood stars.
I’ll wrap this up with one of my favorite quotations:

Art, like morality, consists in drawing the line somewhere.
–G.K. Chesterton

George E. Smith;
June 19, 2012 1:03 am

Thanks Steve P. I figured you didn’t just drop that shoe in a stream of consciousness moment, so I figured it was a learning moment for me. Thanks again; next time I hear the Taurids are back, I’ll be sure to duck.
As for SF and LA voting to dump Davis, it was actually the morning show hosts on KSFO radio, who started the whole recall. It was hoped that it would be the only savvy Republican in the whole CA legislature who landed the job; then Tarzan swung into action. That losing Rep, made it into the Congress instead. Don’t actually recall Reagan going after Industry.
I’m not a fan of either LA or SF, or for that matter both of them together. A little sea level rise could fix both problems.

George E. Smith;
June 19, 2012 1:19 am

“””””…..Smokey says:
June 18, 2012 at 6:19 pm
Elizabeth Elmore,…..”””””
Smokey, it was actually Elizabeth, who made that comment, I simply agreed with her on that score.
If you read the Constitution Article I section 8, which tells Congress what they CAN do, it gives them 17 tasks, plus a conditional option to make some laws the States can’t handle by themselves.
BUT ! it only authorizes them to raise taxes for three specific things. Pay the National debt; fund the military for defense, and look after “The UNited States” which is the third arm of the Constitutional contract; Washington DC .
But the Congressional rascals, found a loophole. They simply spend money they don’t have for their social engineering boondoggles, which piles all that onto the National Debt, which then they are able to raise taxes to pay. But of course they never have made a payment on the national debt, and don’t intend to so long as they can simply print it, or steal it.
There are other things besides section 8 they are not only authorized to do, but specifically told it is their duty to do; such as article IV, section 4, which tells the feds they MUST protect every State from invasion.
Instead Obama throws the borders wide open, for invading hordes. Seems like he provides them with contraband armaments too, to help with the invasion.

phlogiston
June 19, 2012 2:22 am

Elizabeth Elmore says:
June 18, 2012 at 3:58 pm
If government activity in the USA has been so profitable and such good investment for the country as a whole, then how and why has the USA ended up with approaching 20 TRILLION DOLLARS of debt?? It looks more as if US government activity has created not a single dime in the last century, and has been debt-funded solely by generous foreigners like Arabs and Chinese. But just like for Greece, payback time is coming. (But maybe just like in Greece, debt meltdown of an economy is good for extreme socialists, so perhaps that is the master plan…)
BTW interest on USA debt bonds today pays for 80% of China’s growing defense budget. In 4 years time this will be 100%.

Steve P
June 19, 2012 7:47 am

The difference between good and bad applies to governments as it does to almost everything else in this world.
Unfortunately, our system has devolved to the point where the mass media have the greatest say in selecting our leaders, along with big money. I wonder whose interests they serve?
Last night ABC news with Diane Sawyer leads off with the headline “Burning Heat” as everyone’s favorite platinum-haired national aunt reminds us once again that it’s just sooooo hot, even as the background graphic changes to a map of the W. United States with the several storyline wildfires seemingly merging into one flaming mass, in a subtle reminder of the media’s power to forge lasting images on impressionable, semi-educated brains.
One of the most recent Wooly Mammoths dredged up in Russia, nicknamed Lyuba, dates from c37,000 years ago, while other mammoth finds recently date from c40,000 and c20,000 years ago. Lyuba is extremely well-preserved, including stomach remains…not for the queasy.
It’s conceivable that the pleistocene megafauna were beat down by a series of disasters reflected in the remains of the relatively well-preserved mammoths. It is thought that modern humans appeared on the scene some 100,000 years ago, so a few of our ancestors may have seen some pretty bad stuff coming down, and the petroglyphs argue that they were paying attention.

Kay
June 19, 2012 7:58 am

leftturnandre says:
June 18, 2012 at 8:56 am
[quote]Kay,
Maybe that 10 degrees wasn’t there. The only indicator for that are isotope which have a lot of problems, but I can’t talk about it because that is moderated away here..[/quote]
Right. I’m just hypothesizing, but it seems to me that as someone posted upthread, the anomaly is really the warming that preceded the YD, not the YD itself. I’m no expert, but if you take the Milkanovitch cycles and the duration of previous ice ages as a rough guide, didn’t we still have a few thousand years to go before the last one should have ended? What happened to make it warm so quickly? How do multiple ice sheets, which had been stable and/or growing for 100,000 years, suddenly go into a massive meltdown?
Another thing that needs to be taken into account is the destruction of the ozone layer that would occur with any impact–aerial burst, land impact, or sea impact. I read somewhere that when the Tunguska bolide (a mere rock!) exploded, it destroyed nearly 1/3 of the ozone layer. Imagine what a larger impactor would do.
So, you’ve got large swathes of the planet on fire and sending all that carbon into the atmosphere. You’d have a lot of dying animals and carcasses laying all over the place and in the water. You’ve got a diminished ozone layer. Possibly a weakened magnetic field? (Wouldn’t the bolide create its own magnetic field as it entered the atmosphere?) If it’s a sea impact, you’d have massive tsunamis and acid rain on top of all your other problems.
In addition, it’s entirely possible that the dates for either the impact OR the YD–or both–are wrong. IMO that’s why it’s such a confusing mess. We’d be a lot better off if they could refine the dates.

ferd berple
June 19, 2012 8:13 am

phlogiston says:
June 19, 2012 at 2:22 am
BTW interest on USA debt bonds today pays for 80% of China’s growing defense budget. In 4 years time this will be 100%.
===========
The implications for US security are staggering. That is with US interest rates at record lows. Should US rates rise, the point will quickly come where 100% of US taxes go towards servicing the debt.
It is said the true cause of the fall of the Roman empire was the depletion of the silver mines. They ran out of money first, then were overrun. It is also said that history repeats itself. A lesson likely not lost on the Chinese.

ferd berple
June 19, 2012 8:26 am

George E. Smith; says:
June 18, 2012 at 10:24 am
… To the extent, that American citizens disapprove of what the Government does on their behalf, there is a simple remedy. You vote those people out of office and you replace them with people who will do things more to your liking .
========
While it sounds good in theory, in practice it doesn’t work. the government is not run by the elected officials. It is run by professional bureaucrats that remain after the government is voted out.
Anyone wanting to see how government actually runs should watch or read “Yes, Minister”. While written as a comedy, it is much closer the fact than most non-fiction accounts of government.

mysteryseeker
June 19, 2012 10:09 am

In response to Steve P: Yes I believe the Taurids as both you and Drs Clube and Napier also indicate that the Younger Dryas was brought about by a series of cosmic showers. Further to the scenario, I also think that one of the larges bolides strck the Pacific ocean and a huge tsunami (dwarfing both the 2004 and 2011 earthquake generated tsunamis) and wiping out huge populations of ice age mammals in Alaska, Siberia and even on the west coast of North and South America.

George E. Smith;
June 19, 2012 12:08 pm

“””””…..ferd berple says:
June 19, 2012 at 8:26 am
George E. Smith; says:
June 18, 2012 at 10:24 am
… To the extent, that American citizens disapprove of what the Government does on their behalf, there is a simple remedy. You vote those people out of office and you replace them with people who will do things more to your liking .
========
While it sounds good in theory, in practice it doesn’t work. the government is not run by the elected officials. It is run by professional bureaucrats that remain after the government is voted out……”””””
So why have a government. ?
Elected governments created these beurocracies, and then subcontracted to those unelecteds, the work they themselves were elected to do.
So elected governments can also eliminate those beurocracies. Nobody said governing would be easy; that’s why it shouldn’t be a full time job. One term and you’re done; so getting re-elected is never an incentive. And it’s time they did budgets on an annual basis for the current calendar year, as businesses are required to do; no making five year budgets for ten years after they are out of office. The current crowd haven’t delivered any budget, since they were elected.
If the current system doesn’t work, then maybe; our forefathers guessed wrong, and we aren’t up to the task, like they were; in which case we thoroughly deserve what is coming to us.

Laurence Crossen
June 19, 2012 12:28 pm

This citation does not include any quote from Mr. Wunsch:
54) R. Muscheler et al., “Changes in Deep-water Formation During the Younger Dryas Event Inferred from 10Be and 14C Records,” (2000): Nature 408, 567-570.

Laurence Crossen
June 19, 2012 12:32 pm

The other citation for Wunsch does not include the periodical title:
52) K.A. Hughen et al., “Deglacial Changes in Ocean Circulation from an Extended Radiocarbon Calibration,” (1998): 65-68.

mysteryseeker
June 19, 2012 1:20 pm

Sorry Laurence, in the last revison of the paper I neglected to change the references to the way they should be. I will correct this today. Rod Chilton, “the mystery seeker”

mysteryseeker
June 19, 2012 4:33 pm

Anthony: I am sorry that the list of references provided in the original submission was from an earlier version of my paper. You will now see the correct list of references. I am very sorry for any inconveniece that this may have caused. Rod Chilton
REFERENCES:
1) G Bond et al., “Correlation Between Climate Records from North Atlantic Sediments and Greenland Ice,” (1993): Nature 365, 143-147.
2) Richard B. Alley, “The Two-Mile Time Machine,” Princeton, Princeton University Press, (2002): 144
3) W.S. Broecker et al., “Routing of Meltwater from the Laurentide Ice Sheet During the Younger Dryas Cold Episode,” (1989): Nature 341, 318-321.
4) S. Rahmstorf, “Rapid Climate Transition in a Coupled Ocean-Atmosphere Model,” (1994): Nature: 372, 82-85.
5) A. de Vernal et al., “Reduced Meltwater Outflow from the Laurentide Ice Margin,” (1996): Nature 381, 774-777.
6) P. La Salle and W.W. Shilts, “Younger Dryas – Age Readvance of Laurentide Ice into the Champlain Sea,” (1993): Boreas 22, 25-37.
7) T. Hanebuth et al., “Rapid Flooding of the Sunda Shelf: A Late Glacial Sea-Level Record,” (2000): Science 288, 1033-1035.
8) P.U. Clarke et al., “Freshwater Forcing of Abrupt Climate Change During the Last Glaciation,” (2001): Science 293, 283-287.
9) A. J. Weaver et al., (2003): “Meltwater Pulse 1A from Antarctica as a Trigger of the Bølling-Allerød Warm Interval,” (2003): Science 299, 1709-1713.
10) Ibid.
11) E. Bard et al., “Deglacial Sea-Level Record from Tahiti Corals and Timing of Global Meltwater Discharge,” (1996): Nature 382, 241-244.
12) L. Tarasov and W.R. Peltier, “Arctic Freshwater Forcing of the Younger Dryas Cold Reversal,” (2005): Nature 435, 662-665.
13) J. B. Murton et al., “Identification of Younger Dryas Outburst Flood Path from Lake Agassiz into the Arctic Ocean,” (2010): Nature 464, 740-743.
14) T.V. Lowell, “Glacial Lake Agassiz – Its History and Influence on North America and Global Systems,” (October, 2011): Presented at the Geological Society of America Conference in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
15) J. B. Murton et al., “Identification of Younger Dryas Outburst Flood Path from Lake Agassiz into the Arctic Ocean,” (2010): Nature 464, 740-743.
16) T.V. Lowell, “Glacial Lake Agassiz – Its History and Influence on North America and Global Systems,” (October, 2011): Presented at the Geological Society of America Conference in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
17) A.E. Carlson, comments: “Radiocarbon Deglaciation Chronology of the Thunder Bay, Ontario Area and Implications for the Ice Sheet Retrieval Patterns,” (2009): Quaternary Science Reviews 20, 2546-2547.
18) Ibid
19) C. Ruhlemann et al., “Warming of the Tropical Atlantic Ocean and Slowdown of Thermohaline Circulation During the Last Deglaciation,” (1999): Nature 402, 511-514.
20) Ibid
21) A. McIntyre and B. Molfino, “Forcing of Atlantic Equatorial and Subpolar Millennial Cycles by Precession,” (1996): Science 274, 1867-1870.
22) K. A. Hughen et al., “Rapid Tropical Atlantic Region During the Last Deglaciation,” (1996): Nature 380, 51-56.
23) W. A. Watts, “A Late Quaternary Record of Vegetation from Lake Annie, South-east Florida,” (1975): Geology 3 #6, 344-346.
24) E. C. Grimm et al., “A 50,000 –Year Record of Climate Oscillation from Florida and its Temporal Correlation with the Heinrich Events,” (1993): Science 261, 198-200.
25) G. A. Islebe et al., “A Cooling Event during the Younger Dryas Chron in Costa Rica,” (1995): Paleoceanography, Paleoclimatolgy, Paleoecolgy 117, 73-80.
26) W. S. Broecker et al., “Routing of Meltwater from the Laurentide Ice Sheet During the Younger Dryas Cold Episode,” (1989): Nature 341, 318-321.
27) B. P. Flower and J. P. Kennett, “The Younger Dryas Cool Episode in the Gulf of Mexico,” (1990): Paleoceaonography 5 #6, 949-961.
28) C. Williams et al., “A Multiproxy Approach to Deglacial Paleo-Salinity Reconstructions Based on Gulf of Mexico Data,” Abstract presented at 2010 Fall Meeting AGU San Francisco, California, December 13-17.
29) M.A. Maslin and S. J. Burns, “Reconstruction of the Amazon Basin Effective Moisture Availability over the Past 14,000 Years,” (2000): Science 290, 2285-2287.
30) G. Seltzer et al., “Isotopic Evidence for Late Quaternary Climatic Change in Tropical South America,” (2000): Geology 28, 3-5.
31) P. Kuhry et al., “The El Abra Stadial in the Eastern Cordillera of Colombia (South America),”(1993): available online:http//www.science direct.com/science.
32) P. A. Baker et al., “Tropical Climate Changes at Millennial and Orbital Timescales of the Bolivian Altiplano,” (2000): Nature 409, 698-701.
33) L.G. Thompson et al., “A 25,000 – Year Tropical Climate History from Bolivian Ice Core,” (1998): Science 282, 1858-1864.
34) D. J. Rodbell and G.A. Seltzer, “Rapid Ice Margin Fluctuations During the Younger Dryas in the Tropical Andes,” (2000): Quaternary Research 54, 328-338.
35) M. S. Andres et al., “Southern Ocean Deglacial Records Supports Global Younger Dryas,” (2003): Earth and Planetary Science Letters 216, 515-524.
36) P.M. Grootes et al., “The Taylor Dome Antarctica 18O Record and Globally Synchronous Changes in Climate,” (2001): Quaternary Research 56, 289-298.
37) T. Sowers and M. Bender, “Climate Records over the Last Deglaciation,” (1995): Science 269, 210-214.
38) R. S. Bradley, Paleoclimatology, “Reconstructing Climate of the Quaternary”, Amherst, Massachusetts, Academic Press, (1999): 168.
39) E. Boyle and L. Keigwin, “The North Atlantic Thermohaline Circulation During the Past 20,000 Years Linked to High Latitude Surface Temperature,” (1987): Nature 330, 35-40.
40) R. A. Fairbanks, “A 17,000-year Glacioeustatic Sea Level Record: Influence of Glacial Meltwater Rates on the Younger Dryas Event Deep Ocean Circulation,” (1989): Nature 342, 637-642.
41) Ibid.
42) E. Jansen and T. Veum, “Evidence for Two-Step Glaciation and its Importance on North Atlantic Deep Water Circulation,” (1990): Nature 343, 612-618.
43) S. J. Lehman and L.D. Keigwin, “Sudden Changes in North Atlantic Circulation During the Last Deglaciation,” (1992): Nature 356, 757-762.
44) N. K. Karpuz and E. Jansen, “ A High Resolution Diatom Record of the Last Deglaciation from the SE Norwegian Sea: Documentation of Rapid Climate Changes,” (1992): Paleoceanography 7, 499-520.
45) Ibid.
46) Ibid.
47) Ibid.
48) Ibid.
49) M. Sarnthein et al., “Changes in East Atlantic Deepwater Circulation over the Last 30,000 Years: Eight Time Slice” Reconstructions,” (1994): Paleoceanography 9, 209-267.
50) C.D. Charles and R.G. Fairbanks, “Evidence from Southern ocean Sediments for the Effect of North Atlantic Deep-water Flux on Climate” (1992): Nature 355, 416-419.
51) C. Wunsch, “Towards Understanding the Paleocean,” (2010): Quaternary Science Reviews 30, 1-10.
52) Ibid.
53) Steve McIntyre website http//climateaudit.org. (2008/07/22/ the- carl – wunsch –complaint.
54) R.B. Alley, “Icing the North Atlantic,” (1998): Nature 342, 335-336.
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ferd berple
June 19, 2012 7:18 pm

George E. Smith; says:
June 19, 2012 at 12:08 pm
So elected governments can also eliminate those beurocracies.
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Only if governments cannot borrow against our future.
Government should be self supporting. They print the money. They should lend it out and collect interest in lieu of taxes. The biggest borrowers would then become the biggest tax payers. You can’t get a fairer system than that. Which is why it won’t be implemented.

Laurence Crossen
June 20, 2012 10:55 am

I found this posting very interesting and helpful, but reference #54 is still incorrect.
54) R.B. Alley, “Icing the North Atlantic,” (1998): Nature 342, 335-336.
The year does not match the volume # and I cannot find that title in 1998 p.335 or in volume 342 p.335.
That would be a valuable quote to have.

Laurence Crossen
June 20, 2012 11:02 am

How is it possible to date the Younger Dryas fluctuation to find a cooling of 5-6 degrees in one year or even two or three decades when radiocarbon dates to 5,000 BP have uncertainties of + or – 500 years? Does the rapidity of the fluctuation get gauged by the ice core? When the lowest ice in a glacier gets more and more compressed so that the lowest are not hardly even distinguishable one from another how can they say the change happened so fast? This seems like a catastrophist fantasy unsupportable by real science. It is these supposedly phenomenal fluctuations that lie at the supposedly scientific basis of climate hysteria.

Laurence Crossen
June 21, 2012 11:43 am

Here is ref# 54:
Palaeoclimatology: Icing the North Atlantic
Publication Nature, Volume 392, Issue 6674, pp. 335-337 (1998)

Laurence Crossen
June 21, 2012 12:30 pm

“Icing the North Atlantic”
This article does not have the cited quote: “Dr. Wunsch was even more emphatic about the role of the North Atlantic in climate changes when he stated that “you can’t turn the Gulf Stream off as long as wind blows in the North Atlantic” and then goes on to say that “the conveyor is kind of fairy tale for grownups”(54)”
This article has this quote:
“However, the idea that changes at high latitudes can affect widespread regions extending across the Equator is unpopular with many workers who do not believe that the small, energy-starved polar ‘tail’ can wag the large, energy-rich tropical ‘dog’.
I just purchased the pdf and read it.