On this memorial day, I thought it might be appropriate to share this image and story. The USS Iowa made its final voyage from Richmond, CA to San Pedro CA on Saturday, May 26th, sliding under the Golden Gate Bridge for the last time.
A bow view of the battleship USS IOWA (BB-61) firing its Mark 7 16-inch/50-caliber guns off the starboard side during a fire power demonstration. Date 15 August 1984 Image: WikipediaIronically, the Golden Gate Bridge had its 75th anniversary a day later.
USS Iowa (BB-61) fires a full broadside of her nine 16″/50 and six 5″/38 guns during a target exercise near Vieques Island, Puerto Rico (21°N 65°W). Note concussion effects on the water surface, and 16-inch gun barrels in varying degrees of recoil., July 1, 1984 Image: WikipediaFull story and more great photos here: USS Iowa final voyage from Richmond, CA
As always, my thanks and respect to our men and women in the military, who have served our country in times of war and peace.
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Mac the Knife
May 28, 2012 2:53 pm
To all who served, and to the families of those who died in service to the United States of America and our faithful Allies, I offer my deepest and most humble appreciation for your sacrifices. http://youtu.be/wK0T4pVHP28
George E. Smith;
May 28, 2012 2:53 pm
“”””” Smokey says:
May 28, 2012 at 1:36 pm
RACookPE1978 says:
“…a few years later, the Hood was also sunk with one shell.”
Sunk by the Bismarck with one salvo, at a range of thirteen nautical miles!
1,416 of the 1,419 crew members of the Hood died when she went down. News of that feat shook the Allies, and Great Britain made an all-out effort to chase down and sink the Bismarck. They succeeded because a torpedo biplane pilot managed to hit the Bismarck’s rudder. “””””
Well as the dialog went in the British movie; “Sink the Bismark” The report said, “Hood has blown up.” She was a somewhat old ship, with wooden decking. Hey if you are going to pull up alongside, Errol Flynn style, and fire 20 cannons into the opposite ship, what’s wrong with wooden decking. The extreme range of the shot from Bismark, doomed the Hood, as the guns would be fired from a high elevation, and the shell came down on the deck right into a powder magazine, and the whole ship exploded, a creepy omen of the fate of Arizona.
So I would venture, most of HMS Hood’s crew, died immediately in the explosion; not in the sinking.
Those Fairey Aviation Swordfish, came from the Ark Royal, which got sent back from the Mediterranean to help go after Bismark. I would guess that Fairey Aviation was not exactly the top British aircraft manufacturer, and some of their planes were total junk.
But everybody knows that the Fairey Aviation brass band was one damn fine brass band; as was that of the Foden Motor Works
Speaking of a broadside fired by those 16″ “rifles”, as I recall, at a range of 26 miles, those guns could group (place their shots) in about 1 minute of angle, one minute of angle being approximately 1″ at 100 yards.
pk
May 28, 2012 3:41 pm
Gunga Din says:
May 28, 2012 at 9:28 am
for those of you who want to knuckle dust it out with micrometers and calipers there is one 16″ barrel and two projectiles “stuffed and mounted” in san pedro ca. just to the north of the entrance to the marine museum down in the los angles harbor.
anyone that can drag it off can have it. :-))
bring your hundred ton cranes and a truck good for 90 tons and let me know as i want to take pictures.
C
Djozar
May 28, 2012 3:46 pm
Thank you Mac the Knife
Father – AIr Force Veteran, Viet Nam
Uncle – Army Veteran, WWII and Korea
Grandfather – Army Veteran, WWII
Uncle – Army, KIA near St. Lo. WWII July 44
Myself – Veteran, US Navy, Submarine Service
pk
May 28, 2012 3:55 pm
to all:
the vessel appears to be about 50 miles due west of lompoc (Vandenberg AFB) at about 1532 hrs.
they appear to be following the edge of the continental shelf. go to http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/ look for the tug Warrior (expect Iowa to be about 2000 feet astern of it).
C
wsbriggs
May 28, 2012 4:11 pm
Using sabots, the naval rifles can reach over 50 miles. That still pales in comparison to the hundreds or even thousands of miles for a cruise missile, and is the main reason they’re being retired.
Steve P
May 28, 2012 5:18 pm
“War is a racket …to hell with war.”
–Major General Smedley Butler, two time recipient of the Medal of Honor
–sp, USAF ’64-’71 Remember the Liberty!
northernont
May 28, 2012 5:22 pm
Something tells me, that having the firepower of an Iowa class ship will be badly needed one day for its intimidating shock and awe value.
“SAN PEDRO, Calif. — May 17, 2012 — The Los Angeles Harbor Commission today voted unanimously to create a new home for the historic battleship, the USS IOWA, in a prime location along the LA Waterfront at the Port of Los Angeles.
In separate actions, The Harbor Commission approved the lease agreement and an Environmental Impact Report (EIR) necessary to bring the World War II icon to the LA Waterfront where it will be converted to an interactive naval museum and living memorial. The floating museum is scheduled to open to the public July 7 at Berth 87 along the Main Channel, directly south of the World Cruise Center.” http://www.portofla.org/newsroom/2012_releases/news_051712_USS_IOWA_Approval.asp
Starting on July 7, the public will be able to see this historic ship.
TG McCoy (Douglas DC)
May 28, 2012 6:16 pm
Had the fortune to know an WW2 dive bomber pilot. He was at Midway, bombing three.
He witnessed what happened to Torpedo 8. Our torpedoes weren’t much until later.
One reason that the Swordfish had numerous successes was the Torpedo that the
British used worked. That and the fact the ol’ “Stringbag” was mostly air.
However the Japanese “Long Lance” torpedo was probably the best of the war…
Mac the Knife
May 28, 2012 6:30 pm
Your most welcome Djozar.
Father – Army, WWII
Mother – Army nurse, WWII
(2) Uncles – Navy WWII
Brother – Navy, Captain (Ret.) Viet Nam and on
Brother – Army, Viet Nam
Myself – I did not serve in the military. I came of age in 1973, when the draft lottery gave my twin brother and I ‘lucky number 10’ for a present and just about guaranteed we would get inducted . 1973 turned out to be the first year the US ran the draft but did not take inductees however, as the war was winding down.
Ray Donahue
May 28, 2012 6:46 pm
Was in the Panama Canal Zone in 1968-69 and watched the US Battleship Missouri transit the canal. Very tight fit! I heard that thermal expansion was a potential problem. In EOD School we tried to “low order” a 16 inch round. Not successful (it was an AP round). Later, in VN, as US Army Infantry, I called in many artillery missions. 99% 105mm which were awesome! If 105s were awesome I probably would have fainted if I called in a 16″ fire mission! God ( or whoever) bless the US Military!
Ray
Larry Ledwick (hotrod)
May 28, 2012 6:51 pm
northernont says:
May 28, 2012 at 5:22 pm
Something tells me, that having the firepower of an Iowa class ship will be badly needed one day for its intimidating shock and awe value.
It certainly served that function during bombardment off Lebanon.
The demise of the BB class is a function of a change in weapons systems and combat strategy on the high seas. They were still some of the fastest ships in the Navy even with their WWII vintage propulsion system, but they were built based on the assumption of two fleets facing off at gun range and fighting a gun duel, as their courses converged, or as used in WWII as a heavy artillery asset during beach landings. Modern cruise missiles have replaced the general shelling application at far greater range than the BB 16 inch rifles could achieve. They would how ever still provide superior hard target attack to anything short of a modern bunker buster, and with direct fire could react faster than an aircraft sortie if no airborne on station capability was in place.
More importantly with the advent of aircraft most naval engagements will occur out side of line of site, using UAV or satellite targeting for GPS terminally guided munitions.
The days of broadside gun duels between ships of the line are over, but the one advantage of gunfire over missiles and aircraft is velocity of the projectile. Hyper-velocity missiles are available that match the velocity of approach of a Naval rifle but they have the same fire risk to the ship they come from as explosive projectiles and the propellent charges for the conventional guns.
The new “main gun” for the U.S. Navy is not far off, in the rail gun. It will allow direct fire and indirect fire at ranges up to 220 nautical miles, the kinetic energy of the projectile will exceed the energy of its projectile weight in high explosives. Like hyper-velocity missiles the rounds will be nearly impossible to intercept in flight, and put no pilot at risk, and there will be no powder magazine to burn or explode on board ship. http://weaponsman.com/?p=2382 http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24126
If you want to read a very intense account of Naval warfare as practiced during WWII, pickup a copy of “Pawns of War”: The Loss of the USS Langley and the USS Pecos. A friend of mine had an uncle, who served on the Langley and survived its sinking only to die during the sinking of the Pecos. In the book is a blow by blow account of two battle groups engaged in an old fashioned gun duel on the high seas. Two lines of capital ships steaming broadside to each other on converging courses (to close range) and their kill or be killed slugging match as they traded rounds.
For those who wonder about the terminology old hands in the Navy would get really upset if you referred to a “naval gun” they made a very strong point of informing you that these were “Naval rifles” not guns. The distinctions is the overall barrel length, I cannot find the “official” break point right now, but I believe it is between 38 and 54x the bore. The 5″ 38 is considered a naval gun and the 5″ 54 is considered a naval rifle.
Larry
Johnnygunn
May 28, 2012 6:54 pm
It hardly makes sense to preserve ANY battleship – let alone eight.
They were, after all, outmoded by WWII. The role of the Iowa class – minimal.
The USS Texas – yes, only remaining WWI dreadnought.
The USS Missouri – yes, example of final development and Japanese surrrender.
But the other six – they should be recycled into guardrails and rebar.
Or better yet – high-tech prostheses for Iraq and Afghan disabled vets.
There is no justification for the BBs cost of maintenance – nor historical justification.
The “Big E” is another story altogether. It SHOULD have been preserved, but was not.
The most decorated ship in US Navy history – – and one which DID make a difference in the war.
It baffles me why battleships – giant, overpriced, overhyped hunks of steel –
Continue to elicit such awe.
PS – And don’t forget the scandalous US Navy report following the 1989 explosion in Turret 2.
DesertYote says:
May 28, 2012 at 11:12 am
George V
May 28, 2012 at 4:22 am
Nice display of Newton’s third law in that first picture. I am also amazed at the complex design of such a ship in the day when the computing device was a slide rule and the design system was a drafting pen, compass, straightedge, and giant sheets of paper.
###
And modeling was done with miniatures in tubs of water.
Rhys Kent says:
May 28, 2012 at 10:29 am
I served in the Canadian Artillery in the early 70′s. That was not a good time to be in uniform in public, even in Canada, and less so in the USA, due to the Vietnam War. @ur momisugly Rhys, the other Canuckistanis commenting here: I had the signal honor of numbering three Canadians among the Army Aviators in my assault helicopter platoon in Vietnam. @ur momisugly the Ozzie commenters: Emus and Taipans! And I drank lunch more than once at Luscombe Army Airfield…
Jonathan Smith
May 28, 2012 11:36 pm
fhhaynie says:
May 28, 2012 at 8:27 am
Capt Haynie,
I concede to your first hand experience. Part of me wishes my version was true but if it ain’t so, it ain’t so. I envy you your experience in having operated those guns.
Regards,
JS
Jonathan,
The ship does not move because the recoil movement of the gun absorbs the energy (mass times velocity squared) of the projectile.
Leg
May 28, 2012 11:48 pm
While on a Recon patrol in Nam, one of the the US battleships launched their big guns with the rounds landing about 15 clicks from us. The roar of the round overhead was louder than being next to a freight train. We could feel the ground vibrate upon impact where we were! It was only awesome because we knew it was our side shooting (though there was the nagging thought, “What if they drop one short?”).
To my fallen comrades on Memorial Day – God Bless!
EternalOptimist
May 28, 2012 11:50 pm
The power of the battleship was made clear to me when I was looking at the Battle of Waterloo in the Napoleonic war. Wellington had 150 guns, most of them light, and most French casualties in that battle were caused by artillery fire.
At Trafalger, ten years earlier, Nelsons flagship alone had 100 guns, and there were 26 other battleships in his fleet. The firepower of that fleet was way over ten times that of the army
Ray Donahue says:
May 28, 2012 at 6:46 pm
Later, in VN, as US Army Infantry, I called in many artillery missions. 99% 105mm which were awesome! If 105s were awesome I probably would have fainted if I called in a 16″ fire mission!
A friend of mine flew an aerial adjustment of the New Jersey firing “delay” fuzes on a target in II Corps. He said the entire grid square jumped thirty feet into the air when the rounds impacted — and then a split-second later, when the rounds went off, debris flew 1,500 feet straight up.
Jack Simmons
May 29, 2012 12:34 am
Many here would probably enjoy Pacific Crucible, War at Sea in the Pacific, 1941-1942, by Ian W. Toll, 2012.
Biographical sketches of many of the key players in the conflict. Yamamoto, Nimitz, King, etc. alone are worth the time spent reading this well written history.
Timing was everything at Midway.
“Only one bomb struck the Akagi, near the center of the flight deck. That hit, probably the 1,000-pound bomb dropped by Best, hit on the middle elevator. Had it missed, the entire course of the battle might have been turned, because the Japanese might have dealt a more severe retaliatory attack on the American carriers.”
To all who served, and to the families of those who died in service to the United States of America and our faithful Allies, I offer my deepest and most humble appreciation for your sacrifices.
http://youtu.be/wK0T4pVHP28
“”””” Smokey says:
May 28, 2012 at 1:36 pm
RACookPE1978 says:
“…a few years later, the Hood was also sunk with one shell.”
Sunk by the Bismarck with one salvo, at a range of thirteen nautical miles!
1,416 of the 1,419 crew members of the Hood died when she went down. News of that feat shook the Allies, and Great Britain made an all-out effort to chase down and sink the Bismarck. They succeeded because a torpedo biplane pilot managed to hit the Bismarck’s rudder. “””””
Well as the dialog went in the British movie; “Sink the Bismark” The report said, “Hood has blown up.” She was a somewhat old ship, with wooden decking. Hey if you are going to pull up alongside, Errol Flynn style, and fire 20 cannons into the opposite ship, what’s wrong with wooden decking. The extreme range of the shot from Bismark, doomed the Hood, as the guns would be fired from a high elevation, and the shell came down on the deck right into a powder magazine, and the whole ship exploded, a creepy omen of the fate of Arizona.
So I would venture, most of HMS Hood’s crew, died immediately in the explosion; not in the sinking.
Those Fairey Aviation Swordfish, came from the Ark Royal, which got sent back from the Mediterranean to help go after Bismark. I would guess that Fairey Aviation was not exactly the top British aircraft manufacturer, and some of their planes were total junk.
But everybody knows that the Fairey Aviation brass band was one damn fine brass band; as was that of the Foden Motor Works
Speaking of a broadside fired by those 16″ “rifles”, as I recall, at a range of 26 miles, those guns could group (place their shots) in about 1 minute of angle, one minute of angle being approximately 1″ at 100 yards.
Gunga Din says:
May 28, 2012 at 9:28 am
for those of you who want to knuckle dust it out with micrometers and calipers there is one 16″ barrel and two projectiles “stuffed and mounted” in san pedro ca. just to the north of the entrance to the marine museum down in the los angles harbor.
anyone that can drag it off can have it. :-))
bring your hundred ton cranes and a truck good for 90 tons and let me know as i want to take pictures.
C
Thank you Mac the Knife
Father – AIr Force Veteran, Viet Nam
Uncle – Army Veteran, WWII and Korea
Grandfather – Army Veteran, WWII
Uncle – Army, KIA near St. Lo. WWII July 44
Myself – Veteran, US Navy, Submarine Service
to all:
the vessel appears to be about 50 miles due west of lompoc (Vandenberg AFB) at about 1532 hrs.
they appear to be following the edge of the continental shelf. go to http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/ look for the tug Warrior (expect Iowa to be about 2000 feet astern of it).
C
Using sabots, the naval rifles can reach over 50 miles. That still pales in comparison to the hundreds or even thousands of miles for a cruise missile, and is the main reason they’re being retired.
–sp, USAF ’64-’71
Remember the Liberty!
Something tells me, that having the firepower of an Iowa class ship will be badly needed one day for its intimidating shock and awe value.
wsbriggs says:
“Using sabots, the naval rifles can reach over 50 miles.”
Actually, a hundred nautical miles:
http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-50_mk7_pics.htm [See last pic.] They used GPS guidance or inertial nav for target acquisition.
And:
http://hiox.org/resource/3931-image007.gif
“SAN PEDRO, Calif. — May 17, 2012 — The Los Angeles Harbor Commission today voted unanimously to create a new home for the historic battleship, the USS IOWA, in a prime location along the LA Waterfront at the Port of Los Angeles.
In separate actions, The Harbor Commission approved the lease agreement and an Environmental Impact Report (EIR) necessary to bring the World War II icon to the LA Waterfront where it will be converted to an interactive naval museum and living memorial. The floating museum is scheduled to open to the public July 7 at Berth 87 along the Main Channel, directly south of the World Cruise Center.”
http://www.portofla.org/newsroom/2012_releases/news_051712_USS_IOWA_Approval.asp
Starting on July 7, the public will be able to see this historic ship.
Had the fortune to know an WW2 dive bomber pilot. He was at Midway, bombing three.
He witnessed what happened to Torpedo 8. Our torpedoes weren’t much until later.
One reason that the Swordfish had numerous successes was the Torpedo that the
British used worked. That and the fact the ol’ “Stringbag” was mostly air.
However the Japanese “Long Lance” torpedo was probably the best of the war…
Your most welcome Djozar.
Father – Army, WWII
Mother – Army nurse, WWII
(2) Uncles – Navy WWII
Brother – Navy, Captain (Ret.) Viet Nam and on
Brother – Army, Viet Nam
Myself – I did not serve in the military. I came of age in 1973, when the draft lottery gave my twin brother and I ‘lucky number 10’ for a present and just about guaranteed we would get inducted . 1973 turned out to be the first year the US ran the draft but did not take inductees however, as the war was winding down.
Was in the Panama Canal Zone in 1968-69 and watched the US Battleship Missouri transit the canal. Very tight fit! I heard that thermal expansion was a potential problem. In EOD School we tried to “low order” a 16 inch round. Not successful (it was an AP round). Later, in VN, as US Army Infantry, I called in many artillery missions. 99% 105mm which were awesome! If 105s were awesome I probably would have fainted if I called in a 16″ fire mission! God ( or whoever) bless the US Military!
Ray
It certainly served that function during bombardment off Lebanon.
The demise of the BB class is a function of a change in weapons systems and combat strategy on the high seas. They were still some of the fastest ships in the Navy even with their WWII vintage propulsion system, but they were built based on the assumption of two fleets facing off at gun range and fighting a gun duel, as their courses converged, or as used in WWII as a heavy artillery asset during beach landings. Modern cruise missiles have replaced the general shelling application at far greater range than the BB 16 inch rifles could achieve. They would how ever still provide superior hard target attack to anything short of a modern bunker buster, and with direct fire could react faster than an aircraft sortie if no airborne on station capability was in place.
More importantly with the advent of aircraft most naval engagements will occur out side of line of site, using UAV or satellite targeting for GPS terminally guided munitions.
The days of broadside gun duels between ships of the line are over, but the one advantage of gunfire over missiles and aircraft is velocity of the projectile. Hyper-velocity missiles are available that match the velocity of approach of a Naval rifle but they have the same fire risk to the ship they come from as explosive projectiles and the propellent charges for the conventional guns.
The new “main gun” for the U.S. Navy is not far off, in the rail gun. It will allow direct fire and indirect fire at ranges up to 220 nautical miles, the kinetic energy of the projectile will exceed the energy of its projectile weight in high explosives. Like hyper-velocity missiles the rounds will be nearly impossible to intercept in flight, and put no pilot at risk, and there will be no powder magazine to burn or explode on board ship.
http://weaponsman.com/?p=2382
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=24126
If you want to read a very intense account of Naval warfare as practiced during WWII, pickup a copy of “Pawns of War”: The Loss of the USS Langley and the USS Pecos. A friend of mine had an uncle, who served on the Langley and survived its sinking only to die during the sinking of the Pecos. In the book is a blow by blow account of two battle groups engaged in an old fashioned gun duel on the high seas. Two lines of capital ships steaming broadside to each other on converging courses (to close range) and their kill or be killed slugging match as they traded rounds.
For those who wonder about the terminology old hands in the Navy would get really upset if you referred to a “naval gun” they made a very strong point of informing you that these were “Naval rifles” not guns. The distinctions is the overall barrel length, I cannot find the “official” break point right now, but I believe it is between 38 and 54x the bore. The 5″ 38 is considered a naval gun and the 5″ 54 is considered a naval rifle.
Larry
It hardly makes sense to preserve ANY battleship – let alone eight.
They were, after all, outmoded by WWII. The role of the Iowa class – minimal.
The USS Texas – yes, only remaining WWI dreadnought.
The USS Missouri – yes, example of final development and Japanese surrrender.
But the other six – they should be recycled into guardrails and rebar.
Or better yet – high-tech prostheses for Iraq and Afghan disabled vets.
There is no justification for the BBs cost of maintenance – nor historical justification.
The “Big E” is another story altogether. It SHOULD have been preserved, but was not.
The most decorated ship in US Navy history – – and one which DID make a difference in the war.
It baffles me why battleships – giant, overpriced, overhyped hunks of steel –
Continue to elicit such awe.
PS – And don’t forget the scandalous US Navy report following the 1989 explosion in Turret 2.
The contributions of our allies are not forgotten.
There were Memorial Day ceremonies in Perth, Western Australia.
http://www.carrytheload.org/
Just sayin.
And it stil is: http://www.stevens.edu/ses/cms/Facilities/tank.html
Rhys Kent says:
May 28, 2012 at 10:29 am
I served in the Canadian Artillery in the early 70′s. That was not a good time to be in uniform in public, even in Canada, and less so in the USA, due to the Vietnam War.
@ur momisugly Rhys, the other Canuckistanis commenting here: I had the signal honor of numbering three Canadians among the Army Aviators in my assault helicopter platoon in Vietnam.
@ur momisugly the Ozzie commenters: Emus and Taipans! And I drank lunch more than once at Luscombe Army Airfield…
fhhaynie says:
May 28, 2012 at 8:27 am
Capt Haynie,
I concede to your first hand experience. Part of me wishes my version was true but if it ain’t so, it ain’t so. I envy you your experience in having operated those guns.
Regards,
JS
Jonathan,
The ship does not move because the recoil movement of the gun absorbs the energy (mass times velocity squared) of the projectile.
While on a Recon patrol in Nam, one of the the US battleships launched their big guns with the rounds landing about 15 clicks from us. The roar of the round overhead was louder than being next to a freight train. We could feel the ground vibrate upon impact where we were! It was only awesome because we knew it was our side shooting (though there was the nagging thought, “What if they drop one short?”).
To my fallen comrades on Memorial Day – God Bless!
The power of the battleship was made clear to me when I was looking at the Battle of Waterloo in the Napoleonic war. Wellington had 150 guns, most of them light, and most French casualties in that battle were caused by artillery fire.
At Trafalger, ten years earlier, Nelsons flagship alone had 100 guns, and there were 26 other battleships in his fleet. The firepower of that fleet was way over ten times that of the army
Ray Donahue says:
May 28, 2012 at 6:46 pm
Later, in VN, as US Army Infantry, I called in many artillery missions. 99% 105mm which were awesome! If 105s were awesome I probably would have fainted if I called in a 16″ fire mission!
A friend of mine flew an aerial adjustment of the New Jersey firing “delay” fuzes on a target in II Corps. He said the entire grid square jumped thirty feet into the air when the rounds impacted — and then a split-second later, when the rounds went off, debris flew 1,500 feet straight up.
Many here would probably enjoy Pacific Crucible, War at Sea in the Pacific, 1941-1942, by Ian W. Toll, 2012.
Biographical sketches of many of the key players in the conflict. Yamamoto, Nimitz, King, etc. alone are worth the time spent reading this well written history.
Timing was everything at Midway.
“Only one bomb struck the Akagi, near the center of the flight deck. That hit, probably the 1,000-pound bomb dropped by Best, hit on the middle elevator. Had it missed, the entire course of the battle might have been turned, because the Japanese might have dealt a more severe retaliatory attack on the American carriers.”