Replicating Al Gore's Climate 101 video experiment shows that his "high school physics" could never work as advertised

This will be a top “sticky” post for a day or two. New stories will appear below this one.

Readers may recall my previous essay where I pointed out how Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 Video, used in his “24 hours of climate reality”, had some serious credibility issues with editing things to make it appear as if they had actually performed the experiment, when they clearly did not. It has taken me awhile to replicate the experiment. Delays were a combination of acquisition and shipping problems, combined with my availability since I had to do this on nights and weekends. I worked initially using the original techniques and equipment, and I’ve replicated the Climate 101 experiment in other ways using improved equipment. I’ve compiled several videos. My report follows.

First. as a refresher, here’s the Climate 101 video again:

I direct your attention to the 1 minute mark, lasting through 1:30, where the experiment is presented.

And here’s my critique of it: Video analysis and scene replication suggests that Al Gore’s Climate Reality Project fabricated their Climate 101 video “Simple Experiment”

The most egregious faked presentation in that video was the scene with the split screen thermometers, edited to appear as if the temperature in the jar of elevated CO2 level was rising faster than the jar without elevated CO2 level.

It turns out that the thermometers were never in the jar recording the temperature rise presented in the split screen and the entire presentation was nothing but stagecraft and editing.

This was proven beyond a doubt by the photoshop differencing technique used to compare each side of the split screen. With the exception of the moving thermometer fluid, both sides were identical.

difference process run at full resolution - click to enlarge

Exposing this lie to the viewers didn’t set well with some people, include the supposed “fairness” watchdogs over at Media Matters, who called the analysis a “waste of time”. Of course it’s only a “waste of time” when you prove their man Gore was faking the whole thing, otherwise they wouldn’t care. Personally I consider it a badge of honor for them to take notice because they usually reserve such vitriol for high profile news they don’t like, so apparently I have “arrived”.

The reason why I took so much time then to show this chicanery was Mr. Gore’s pronouncement in an interview the day the video aired.

His specific claim was:

“The deniers claim that it’s some kind of hoax and that the global scientific community is lying to people,” he said. “It’s not a hoax, it’s high school physics.” – Al Gore in an interview with MNN 9/14/2011

So easy a high school kid can do it. Right?

Bill Nye, in his narration at 0:48 in the video says:

You can replicate this effect yourself in a simple lab experiment, here’s how.

…and at 1:10 in the video Nye says:

Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.

So, I decided to find out if that was true and if anyone could really replicate that claim, or if this was just more stagecraft chicanery. I was betting that nobody on Gore’s production team actually did this experiment, or if they did do it, it wasn’t successful, because otherwise, why would they have to fake the results in post production?

The split screen video at 1:17, a screencap of which is a few paragraphs above shows a temperature difference of 2°F. Since Mr. Gore provided no other data, I’ll use that as the standard to meet for a successful experiment.

The first task is to get all the exact same equipment. Again, since Mr. Gore doesn’t provide anything other than the video, finding all of that took some significant effort and time. There’s no bill of materials to work with so I had to rely on finding each item from the visuals. While I found the cookie jars and oral thermometers early on, finding the lamp fixtures, the heat lamps for them, the CO2 tank and the CO2 tank valve proved to be more elusive. Surprisingly, the valve turned out to be the hardest of all items to locate, taking about two weeks from the time I started searching to the time I had located it, ordered it and it arrived. The reason? It isn’t called a valve, but rather a “In-Line On/Off Air Adapter”. Finding the terminology was half the battle. Another surprise was finding that the heat lamps and fixtures were for lizards and terrariums and not some general purpose use. Fortunately the fixtures and lamps were sold together by the same company. While the fixtures supported up to 150 watts, Mr. Gore made no specification on bulb type or wattage, so I chose the middle of the road 100 watt bulbs from the 50, 100, and 150 watt choices available.

I believe that I have done due diligence (as much as possible given no instructions from Gore) and located all the original equipment to accurately replicate the experiment as it was presented. Here’s the bill of materials and links to suppliers needed to replicate Al Gore’s experiment as it is shown in the Climate 101 video:

====================================================

BILL OF MATERIALS

QTY 2 Anchor Hocking Cookie Jar with Lid

http://www.cooking.com/products/shprodde.asp?SKU=187543

QTY2 Geratherm Oral Thermometer Non-Mercury http://www.pocketnurse.com/Geratherm-Oral-Thermometer-Non-Mercury/productinfo/06-74-5826/

QTY 2 Globe Coin Bank

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150661053386

QTY 2 Fluker`s Repta Clamp-Lamp with Ceramic Sockets for Terrariums (max 150 watts, 8 1/2 Inch Bulb) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fluker-s-Repta-Clamp-Lamp-150-watts-8-1-2-Inch-Bulb-/200663082632

QTY2 Zoo Med Red Infrared Heat Lamp 100W

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200594870618

QTY1 Empire – Pure Energy – Aluminum Co2 Tank – 20 oz

http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190563856367

QTY 1 RAP4 In-Line On/Off Air Adapter

http://www.rap4.com/store/paintball/rap4-in-line-on-off-air-adapter

QTY 1 flexible clear plastic hose, 48″ in length, from local Lowes hardware to fit RAP4 In-Line On/Off Air Adapter above.

====================================================

Additionally, since Mr. Gore never actually proved that CO2 had been released from the CO2 paintball tank into one of the jars, I ordered a portable CO2 meter for just that purpose:

It has a CO2 metering accuracy of: ± 50ppm ±5% reading value. While not laboratory grade, it works well enough to prove the existence of elevated CO2 concentrations in one of the jars. It uses a non-dispersive infrared diffusion sensor (NDIR) which is self calibrating, which seems perfect for the job.

carbon dioxide temperature humidity monitorData Sheet

===================================================

Once I got all of the equipment in, the job was to do some testing to make sure it all worked. I also wanted to be sure the two oral thermometers were calibrated such they read identically. For that, I prepared a water bath to conduct that experiment.

CAVEAT: For those that value form over substance, yes these are not slick professionally edited videos like Mr. Gore presented. They aren’t intended to be. They ARE intended to be a complete, accurate, and most importantly unedited record of the experimental work I performed. Bear in mind that while Mr. Gore has million$ to hire professional studios and editors, all I have is a consumer grade video camera, my office and my wits. If I were still working in broadcast television, you can bet I would have done this in the TV studio.

==============================================================

STEP 1 Calibrate the Oral Thermometers

Here’s my first video showing how I calibrated the oral thermometers, which is very important if you want to have an accurate experimental result.

Note that the two thermometers read 98.1°F at the conclusion of the test, as shown in this screencap from my video @ about 5:35:

STEP 2 Calibrate the Infrared Thermometer

Since I plan to make use of an electronic Infrared thermometer in these experiments, I decided to calibrate it against the water bath also. Some folks may see this as unnecessary, since it is pre-calibrated, but I decided to do it anyway. It makes for interesting viewing

==============================================================

STEP 3 Demonstrate how glass blocks IR using  the Infrared Thermometer

The way an actual greenhouse works is by trapping infrared radiation. Glass is transparent to visible light, but not to infrared light, as we see below.

Image from: greenhousesonline.com.au
Mr. Gore was attempting to demonstrate this effect in his setup, but there’s an obvious problem: he used infrared heat lamps rather than visible light lamps. Thus, it seems highly likely that the glass jars would block the incoming infrared, and convert it to heat. That being the case, the infrared radiative backscattering effect that makes up the greenhouse effect in our atmosphere couldn’t possibly be demonstrated here in the Climate 101 video.

By itself, that would be enough to declare the experiment invalid, but not only will I show the problem of the experimental setup being flawed, I’ll go to full on replication.

Using the warm water bath and the infrared thermometer, it becomes easy to demonstrate this effect.

Since Mr. Gore’s experiment used infrared heat lamps illuminating two glass jars, I decided to test that as well:

==============================================================

STEP 4 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using the same equipment – duration of 10 minutes

At 1:10 in the Climate 101 video narrator Bill Nye the science guy says:

Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.

Since this is “simple high school physics” according to Mr. Gore, this should be a cinch to replicate. I took a “within minutes” from the narration to be just that, so I tried an experiment with 10 minutes of duration. I also explain the experimental setup and using the CO2 meter prove that CO2 is in fact injected into Jar “B”. My apologies for the rambling dialog, which wasn’t scripted, but explained as I went along. And, the camera work is one-handed while I’m speaking and setting up the experiment, so what it lacks in production quality it makes up in reality.

You’ll note that after 10 minutes, it appears there was no change in either thermometer. Also, remember these are ORAL thermometers, which hold the reading (so you can take it out of your mouth and hand it to mom and ask “can I stay home from school today”?). So for anyone concerned about the length of time after I turned off the lamps, don’t be. In order to reset the thermometers you have to shake them to force the liquid back down into the bulb.

Here’s the screencaps of the two thermometer readings from Jar A and B:

Clearly, 10 minutes isn’t enough time for the experiment to work. So let’s scratch off the idea from narration of “a few minutes” and go for a longer period:

RESULT: No change, no difference in temperature. Nothing near the 2°F rise shown in the video. Inconclusive.

==============================================================

STEP 5 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using the same equipment – duration of 30 minutes

Ok, identical setup as before, the only difference is time, the experiment runs 30 minutes long. I’ve added a digital timer you can watch as the experiment progresses.

And here are the screencaps from the video above of the results:

RESULT: slight rise and difference in temperature 97.4°F for Jar “A” Air, and 97.2°F for Jar “B” CO2. Nothing near the 2°F rise shown in the video.

==============================================================

STEP 6 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment, using digital logging thermometer – duration of 30 minutes

In this experiment, I’m substituting the liquid in glass oral thermometers with some small self contained battery powered digital logging thermometers with LCD displays.

This model:

Details here

Specification Sheet / Manual

USB-2-LCD+ Temperature Datalogger

I used two identical units in the experiment replication:

And here are the results graphed by the application that comes with the datalogger. Red is Temperature, Blue is Humidity, Green is dewpoint

The graphs are automatically different vertical scales and thus can be a bit confusing, so I’ve take the raw data for each and graphed temperature only:

After watching my own video, I was concerned that maybe I was getting a bit of a direct line of the visible portion of the heat lamp into the sensor housing onto the thermistor, since they were turned on their side. So I ran the experiment again with the dataloggers mounted vertically in paper cups to ensure the thermistors were shielded from any direct radiation at any wavelength. See this video:

Both runs of the USB datalogger are graphed together below:

RESULTS:

Run 1 slight rise and difference in temperature 43.5°C for Jar “A” Air with Brief pulse to 44°C , and 43.0°C for Jar “B” CO2.

Run 2 had an ended with a 1°C difference, with plain air in Jar A being warmer than Jar “B with CO2.

Jar “A” Air temperature led Jar “B” CO2 during the entire experiment on both runs

The datalogger output files are available here:

JarA Air only run1.txt  JarB CO2 run1.txt

JarA Air only run2.txt JarB CO2 run2.txt

==============================================================

STEP 7 Replicating Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 video experiment exactly, using a high resolution NIST calibrated digital logging thermometer – duration of 30 minutes

In this experiment I use a high resolution (0.1F resolution) and NIST calibrated data logger with calibrated probes. Data was collected over my LAN to special software. This is the datalogger model:

Data sheet: Model E Series And the software used to log data is described here

Here’s the experiment:

I had to spend a lot of time waiting for the Jar “B” probe to come to parity with Jar “A” due to the cooling effect of the CO2 I introduced. As we all know, when a gas expands it cools, and that’s exactly what happens to CO2 released under pressure. You can see the effect early in the flat area of the graph below.

Here’s the end result screencap real-time graphing software used in the experiment, click the image to expand the graph full size.

RESULTS:

Peak value Jar A with air  was at 18:04 117.3°F

Peak value Jar B with CO2 was at 18:04 116.7°F

Once again, air led CO2 through the entire experiment.

Note that I allowed this experiment to go through a cool down after I turned off the Infrared heat lamps, which is the slope after the peak. Interestingly, while Jar “A” (probe1 in green) with Air, led Jar “B” (Probe 2 in red) with CO2, the positions reversed shortly after the lamps turned off.

The CO2 filled jar was now losing heat slower than the plain air jar, even though plain air Jar “A” had warmed slightly faster than the CO2 Jar “B”.

Here’s the datalogger output files for each probe:

Climate101-replication-Probe01-(JarA – Air).csv

Climate101-replication-Probe02-(JarB – CO2).csv

Climate101-replication-Probe03-(Ambient Air).csv

What could explain this reversal after the lamps were turned off? The answer is here at the Engineer’s Edge in the form of this table:

Heat Transfer Table of Content

This chart gives the thermal conductivity of gases as a function of temperature.

Unless otherwise noted, the values refer to a pressure of 100 kPa (1 bar) or to the saturation vapor pressure if that is less than 100 kPa.

The notation P = 0 indicates the low pressure limiting value is given. In general, the P = 0 and P = 100 kPa values differ by less than 1%.

Units are milliwatts per meter kelvin.

Note the values for Air and for CO2 that I highlighted in the 300K column. 300K is 80.3°F.

Air is a better conductor of heat than CO2.

==============================================================

So, here is what I think is going on with Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 experiment.

  1. As we know, the Climate101 video used infrared heat lamps
  2. The glass cookie jars chosen don’t allow the full measure of infrared from the lamps to enter the center of the jar and affect the gas. I showed this two different ways with the infrared camera in videos above.
  3. During the experiments, I showed the glass jars heating up using the infrared camera. Clearly they were absorbing the infrared energy from the lamps.
  4. The gases inside the jars, air and pure CO2 thus had to be heated by secondary heat emission from the glass as it was being heated. They were not absorbing infrared from the lamps, but rather heat from contact with the glass.
  5. Per the engineering table, air is a better conductor of heat than pure CO2, so it warms faster, and when the lamps are turned off, it cools faster.
  6. The difference value of 2°F shown in the Climate 101 video split screen was never met in any of the experiments I performed.
  7. The condition stated in the Climate 101 video of “Within minutes you will see the temperature of the bottle with the carbon dioxide in it rising faster and higher.” was not met in any of the experiments I performed. In fact it was exactly the opposite. Air consistently warmed faster than CO2.
  8. Thus, the experiment as designed by Mr. Gore does not show the greenhouse effect as we know it in our atmosphere, it does show how heat transfer works and differences in heat transfer rates with different substances, but nothing else.

Mr. Gore’s Climate 101 experiment is falsified, and could not work given the equipment he specified. If they actually tried to perform the experiment themselves, perhaps this is why they had to resort to stagecraft in the studio to fake the temperature rise on the split screen thermometers.

The experiment as presented by Al Gore and Bill Nye “the science guy” is a failure, and not representative of the greenhouse effect related to CO2 in our atmosphere. The video as presented, is not only faked in post production, the premise is also false and could never work with the equipment they demonstrated. Even with superior measurement equipment it doesn’t work, but more importantly, it couldn’t work as advertised.

The design failure was the glass cookie jar combined with infrared heat lamps.

Gore FAIL.

=============================================================

UPDATE: 4PM PST Some commenters are taking away far more than intended from this essay. Therefore I am repeating this caveat I posted in my first essay where I concentrated on the video editing and stagecraft issues:

I should make it clear that I’m not doubting that CO2 has a positive radiative heating effect in our atmosphere, due to LWIR re-radiation, that is well established by science. What I am saying is that Mr. Gore’s Climate Reality Project did a poor job of demonstrating an experiment, so poor in fact that they had to fabricate portions of the presentation, and that the experiment itself (if they actually did it, we can’t tell) would show a completely different physical mechanism than what actually occurs in our atmosphere.

No broader take away (other than the experiment was faked and fails) was intended, expressed or implied – Anthony

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Smoking Frog
October 20, 2011 8:50 am

Ask why is it so? October 20, 2011 at 7:10 am
CO2 can produce heat just like any other molecule in the atmosphere that can absorb radiation. The question is not whether it produces heat but whether the heat produced exceeds the heat produced by the surface of the planet thereby increasing the temperature of the earth.
No, that’s not the question. No one claims that the heat produced exceeds the heat produced by the surface of the planet. That would be absurd, since it contradicts the fact that the air temperature decreases with altitude (up to the tropopause). What is claimed is that the surface is warmer than if there were less CO2 in the atmosphere.
Your misunderstanding, which many skeptics share, rests on a conceptual difficulty with the words “warming,” “warms,” etc. If the temperature of an object is higher now than it was some time ago, clearly the object has warmed, but this does not imply that an extra heater has been introduced, because the increase might be due to the introduction of additional insulation. Surely you would not deny that insulation could keep the object warmer than it would be without insulation or with less insulation. Even if someone said that the insulation “warmed” the object, you would not deny this on the grounds that insulation is not a heater (e.g., a furnace), but when someone says that atmospheric CO2 warms the earth, you think this means that it’s a heater.
Well, you may object, insulation does not continue to raise the temperature; when the insulation is introduced, the object warms to some temperature, and stops warming. That’s true, but the continued warming caused by atmospheric CO2 is a result of the continual increase of the atmospheric concentration of CO2. It’s like the warming caused by continually adding more insulation. However, it’s also somewhat different. If the increase of CO2 were to be halted, the earth and atmosphere would not very quickly reach thermodynamic equilibrium, so there would be a limited period of additional temperature increase after the halt.
Atmospheric CO2 is not very much like insulation, because most insulation does not work by re-radiation, but this does no damage to the analogy, because a continuing increase of insulation would raise the temperature of the object. (I hope you don’t object that there’s a limit to the temperature increase you’d get by adding insulation. The same is true of atmospheric CO2, and no one claims otherwise.)
I see so many people with your misconception that I often find it hard to believe that they are not pretending to misunderstand, trying to mislead people, but you use it so implicitly that I don’t think you are pretending – probably the same is true of many others (but not all). BTW, I’m an AGW skeptic.

R. Gates
October 20, 2011 8:53 am

climatereason says:
October 20, 2011 at 7:40 am
R gates
Please answer my question as to in which decade you believed the earth started warming
thanks
tonyb
——–
I take it you mean when the Earth started warming from human activity? Or are you talking specifically about the contribution to the atmosphere of CO2 from industrial activities? Also, when you say “warming”, could this include any affect on climate, such that there might be less cooling because of human influence during a period that might otherwise see more cooling (i.e. the current potential new quiet sun period being a case in point).

Steve
October 20, 2011 8:58 am

Anthony, I dub thee ‘Patron Saint of Scientists’. Great work. But if you allow me a very small criticism, during the 10 minute Oral thermometer experiment I think you should have used the infra red thermometer a couple of times to confirm that both lamps had roughly the same temperature.

October 20, 2011 9:04 am

steven mosher says on October 19, 2011 at 4:52 am

SW radiation hits the earth and warms it. The earth gives off IR. That IR must return to space. If the atmosphere was transparent to IR the effective radiating altitude would be the surface. But the atmosphere is not transparent to IR. So the reradiates from a higher altitude, from a colder regime.

Not entirely correct … review the facts regarding the “Atmospheric Window”. (How do you think satellite IR imagery works, showing ground temperature (sans clouds) using ~ 10 um wavelength?)
Glad to supply any required references …
Incidentally, notice the ‘peak’ in the LWIR ‘Planck’ curve and it’s proximity to said Atmospheric Window; do you think there is any coincidence (for earth’s long term energy/thermal balance) to this when temperatures reach say over 288 K, also bearing in mind radiated IR energy is proportional to T^4 (Temperature raised to the 4th power) … the effect being (a very rough analogy follows) to ‘spill water over the rim of a pail being filled upon reaching the top (overflow)’?
.

Mark
October 20, 2011 9:08 am

I would not give Bill Nye the benefit of the doubt. There is not one item he has published that would promote a hard look at AGW and consensus climate science. In fact he is currently in a competition to reduce his carbon footprint. He appeared in a “Stargate Atlantis” episode called “Brain Storm” where a runaway experiment caused localized cooling of the environment surrounding a lab and massive cyclonic storms were unleashed because of the temperature differential. In that show, the idea of climate disruption was stated as fact. There are probably many more examples that can be found.
He is not a friend of climate skeptics until he helps to restore scientific integrity to scientific research and strives especially hard to properly disseminate scientific knowledge to the public.

October 20, 2011 9:13 am

R. Gates;
There is no relationship between the errors of of the 101 video and anything related to Dr. Trenberth.>>>
That being the case, you have no excuse for refusing to answer the questions which I have now posted twice. Shall I repeat them a third time?
And you are on record as having welched on the wager you agreed to, going so far as to suggest that I (the winner of the wager) actually pay for the fact that I won!
When you read your own posts do you break up laughing at yourself?

in_awe
October 20, 2011 10:02 am

Sigh…I am SO TIRED of the lies and deliberate misstatements from the left. They will say ANYTHING and lie boldfaced if it serves their ends. Just yesterday Senator Reid talked about how unemployment is disproportionately affecting government workers while private sector jobs have been “doing well”. There is no way that is anything but a certifiable lie (easily disproven by BLS statistics), yet the MSM just accepts it and moves on…to Joe Biden passionately saying that Republicans want more women to be raped unless they approve Obama’s job bill. This despite the fact that all crimes have dropped over the past 5 years without Obama’s job bill.
It is disappointing that Bill Nye felt it was worth besmirching his own reputation to do the voice over for this piece of political propaganda.

Gaëtan Paradis
October 20, 2011 10:03 am

The only thing I would have done different is to swap the jar under these infrared lamp. For more accuracy. Because you never know how these lamp were made, maybe the red filter or paint in these lamp are not equally done its a manufacturing process, so no lamp is really the same.
G.P.

vigilantfish
October 20, 2011 10:08 am

Doug S says:
October 20, 2011 at 8:04 am
OK, here’s a dumb question: where is the PayPal donate button for the tip jar? I see the surface stations donate button but I thought there was a general tip jar for the website? Can anyone point me to the location on the site?
Thanks in advance.
————
Doug S: It’s the ‘fling funds’ link under the “Shameless Plug” heading on the sidebar (just above the Surface Stations” donation link. When you click ‘fling funds’ there some reference to helping to pay for a trip, which is out of date (unless Anthony is planning another one) but I think this just serves as a general pot by which we can assist Anthony with this website and his experiments as well. Cheers!

Doug S
October 20, 2011 10:13 am

Yes, seems like the properties of the thick glass in the containers interfere with the measurements that are trying to be taken. Ideally, as others have probably commented, the container thickness wants to approach 0 and it should be semi-permeable to allow for convective heat transfer. At least, that is how I would start with a physical model of the atmosphere.

Doug S
October 20, 2011 10:19 am

Thanks vigilantfish
Anthony, why not take off the Kid gloves and give us a big, bold, DONATE button at the top of every page. I understand your humble philosophy but consider a little tweaking here. Enough of us know where you’re coming from and won’t let false accusations flourish unchallenged. If this is the kind of science and video documentary you are capable of then I believe there are enough in this community to support it in micro finance fashion. At any rate, keep up the outstanding work! It’s sorely needed in science education today.

Smoking Frog
October 20, 2011 10:31 am

mkelly October 20, 2011 at 6:21 am
Mr. Lazy you are full of yourself. I dare say there are a fair number here that are your equal or one or two your better. Most readers like myself don’t hide behind self chosen descriptive names we have our say and are willing to defend positions or acknowledge error. Why don’t you come out and play in the intellectual sandbox honestly?
I’m no ally of Lazy Teenager, but are you suggesting that “mkelly” identifies you?

October 20, 2011 10:34 am

What do you expect from a failed divinity student? For getting a science experiment right, he wouldn’t have a prayer.

October 20, 2011 10:37 am

NetDr says:
October 20, 2011 at 7:25 am
given the molar mass difference air to CO2 (28 to 44 respectively) the same volume of CO2 will lag air even though CO2 has a lower Cp( specific heat) using an equal Q (heat) input.

October 20, 2011 11:01 am

Smoking Frog says:
October 20, 2011 at 10:31 am
“…but are you suggesting that “mkelly” identifies you?”
It is my name, Mr. Frog or rather first inital and last name. I just checked my drivers license and sure enough that is what it says.

October 20, 2011 11:16 am

A herculean effort and worthy of much praise! I shared your article across my blogs and of course, linked them back to your amazing site! The fact that Al Gore faked these experiments thoroughly discredits both himself and the global warming scientists he represents. What people don’t understand is that scientists are PEOPLE first. They have their own motivations, ideals, and passions. Just as it is rare to find a truly honest person in general, it is likewise hard to find a truly honest scientist. People need to understand the idea that science, by nature, is always wrong. It always seeks to improve itself, correct past assumptions and make new discoveries in an effort to find the Truth. We, as a species, have only begun to scratch the surface of knowledge. To assume otherwise is complete foolishness. Any scientist who thinks they KNOW something and then proceeds to shove it down people’s throats- especially when it has a political agenda behind it- is to be suspect by all. Just because a lot of scientists say something is true doesn’t make it so. Example: they once believed the world was flat, that the sun revolved around it.
The earth MAY be experiencing a temperature change due to man’s activities- or it MAY be a natural earth fluctuation like the scores of fluctuations it has experienced during ice ages, etc. People need to be more cautious when either supporting science theories or attempting to scorn them (although, this is always more fun…). Science has an important role in society, but it is not GOD.

October 20, 2011 11:16 am

I’ve grown tired of the people responding here that are incapable of anything, beginning with “staying on topic” (which is NOT the same as the Pavlovian responses to triggers we see here.
But one of the few of the many repetitious comments that I read before I dumped the lot (and staunched the flow) took offense somehow at the notion that a high school physics class could handle the experiment.
When I went through high-school in the 1950s we did experiments (and understood them) that were far more complex. (We probably did something like this one in Junior high school,)
My girls going through high school in the 1980s were doing experiments on sealed self-sustaining biological systems–among some of the simpler ones.
[I’ll not be back to this thread, it there is something that you must say to me, I’ll be at an email address consisting of my name (less spaces) on Cox’s network.]

October 20, 2011 11:31 am

I think it can be shown to be faked in a much easier fashion. Looking at he split screen shots, compare the two sides background at the 38.6C level, there is a mark in exactly the same place on the background. This is the same thermometer shot at different times ,IMHO.

glacierman
October 20, 2011 11:34 am

R Gates Said:
“There is no relationship between the errors of of the 101 video and anything related to Dr. Trenberth or the physics related to CO2 acting as a greenhouse gas.”
No one said there was, but that is your specialty – Arguing over issues no one raised – to direct the coversation somwhere you think you can handle.
The relationship is between AGW slappies who worship at Trenberths feet. Anyone who makes the slightes infraction to the dogma must, apparently apologise to the man.

G. Karst
October 20, 2011 12:00 pm

Brian H says:
October 19, 2011 at 10:38 pm
Yeah, I’d thought of tossing that into the conversation, noting that it wouldn’t be radiating much power. In fact, the entire “room”, being at room temperature, is already radiating in the correct spectrum. So simply setting up two IR-transparent containers with differing CO2 levels should work. If the “basic physics” is correctly posited, of course.

As Dave Springer would say “BINGO”. However the need to eliminate IR absorbing glass would remain. I do not like the idea of placing the IR heat source into the measured space. There are no pure IR heat sources, that would not conduct heat from it’s surface to the ambient CO2 and then convect it throughout the jar atmos. Surely, providing a IR transparent window is not that difficult or expensive! I also think the temperature sensor should be shielded from the direct IR source.
There seems to be very little effort from the science community to experimentally prove some of these fundamental first principles. I wonder why? I would certainly like to see some definitive experiments demonstrated. GK

CodeTech
October 20, 2011 12:04 pm

Ken Harvey says:
October 20, 2011 at 7:36 am

What a pity it is that the reputation of the Nobel Prize has been sullied by the likes of Gore.

They gave a Nobel to a purely political UN organization (IPCC + Gore), and another to a president before he had yet done anything (and even if I liked the guy I would have been appalled). Now, the IPCC has pretty much been exposed as a fraud, and the president has completely sullied the words “hope” and “change”.
Seriously, if I were to win a Nobel peace prize I’d probably jump off a bridge.

Burks Smith
October 20, 2011 12:33 pm

Did you consider that the greater mass of C02 compared to Air could be responsible for the fact that the CO2 both heated and cooled more slowly, given the same heat transfer rate?

October 20, 2011 12:42 pm

Henry@Larry Sheldon
In fact, I suspect you of making one of those very “off topic” remarks that you are complaining about by one of your your alter ego’s callled “in awe”. The in-fighting between the sceptical science bloggs and what they will do to drag each other through the mud continues to amaze me.
Never mind all of them, Watts is the best!!

R. Gates
October 20, 2011 12:50 pm

glacierman says:
October 20, 2011 at 11:34 am
R Gates Said:
“There is no relationship between the errors of of the 101 video and anything related to Dr. Trenberth or the physics related to CO2 acting as a greenhouse gas.”
No one said there was, but that is your specialty – Arguing over issues no one raised – to direct the coversation somwhere you think you can handle.
——–
it wasn’t me who brought up Dr. Trenberth in the context of this particular post. Anthony proved that Anchor Hocking glass blocks infrared radiation. Why would there be a need to mention Dr. Trenberth at all?

Editor
October 20, 2011 12:56 pm

R Gates
good grief, I thought it was a simple question. 🙂
If you drew a trend line of warming, at which year in the past would it end up (eg Like in Giss). At which point along the way could it be dubbed ‘natural’ and at which point ‘man made?
Thanks
tonyb

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