From Al Gore’s blog, a clear signal that he’s lost it. Like McKibben, he’s like a moth attracted to a flame, looking for it to jumpstart his own failed movement.
Thoughts on Occupy Wall Street October 12, 2011 : 5:07 PM
For the past several weeks I have watched and read news about the Occupy Wall Street protests with both interest and admiration. I thought The New York Times hit the nail on the head in an editorial Sunday:
“The message — and the solutions — should be obvious to anyone who has been paying attention since the economy went into a recession that continues to sock the middle class while the rich have recovered and prospered. The problem is that no one in Washington has been listening.”
“At this point, protest is the message: income inequality is grinding down that middle class, increasing the ranks of the poor, and threatening to create a permanent underclass of able, willing but jobless people. On one level, the protesters, most of them young, are giving voice to a generation of lost opportunity.”
From the economy to the climate crisis our leaders have pursued solutions that are not solving our problems, instead they propose policies that accomplish little. With democracy in crisis a true grassroots movement pointing out the flaws in our system is the first step in the right direction. Count me among those supporting and cheering on the Occupy Wall Street movement.
You can support the protests by clicking here.
Hopefully, it doesn’t turn into a window-breaking, car-burning, zombie-movie.
It is just like climate science. A theory, a feeling, an emotion, illogical.
But the real world with a real 7 billion people operates the best under a 65% capitalist / 35% government model. Just like climate science theory versus the real climate, the real world economy works better under a free-market system even though theoritically a socialist / communist system could work. Facts are a different story.
Human nature runs human society and the human economy. After that, we have Laws, Police, Property Rights and Government when human nature does not work very well for a modern society If something needs finetuning like banking/mortgage laws, we should just fix it.
Sun Spot,
You may believe that, but it simply isn’t true. A typical example is Singapore, with a large, very prosperous middle class and little in the way of unions.
LOL: Of COURSE THAT MORON WOULD SUPPORT THE REST OF THE MORONS. Thank God, because it just helps us destroy the “progressive” monsters!
Back when I was a mindless conservative, I would have dismissed OWS too.
Since I started thinking for myself, I’m not so quick to reflexively dismiss people.
Then I found this:
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1
…and now I wish I could join up with them.
“Dave,
Why is it that all CEOs want to see their taxes raised just as they are ready to retire? Where was this guy at the start of his first year? Oh, making money.”
Yeah, I agree that was a dumb part of the essay. Like Buffett….getting “religion” late in life.
When all the pent up captial does finally get released it will be explosive.
It’s waiting out there.
I like the 9-9-9. It’s simple and could be the start of something good.
@Smokey says: October 13, 2011 at 7:43 pm
It simply is true. A typical example is Germany, with a large, very prosperous middle class and a highly unionized workforce.
I like the 9-9-9.
Me too….but what would we do with all the unemployed accountants?
Sun Spot,
Thank you for proving my point that unions are irrelevant to a country having a prosperous middle class. Both Singapore and Germany have a prosperous middle class. Thus, it does not make a difference whether or not there is a unionized workforce. QED.
David says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:51 pm
More fodder for you taxes/fees list:
Cable TV taxes and fees
California non-sensical taxes — order a hot sandwich to go pay, sales tax on it; order a cold sandwich to go, no sales tax [not supposed to be anyway, but many retailers charge on both hot and cold].
Carbonated beverages –
California sales tax on carbonated beverage:
add (CA CRV) + (sales tax on CRV) to cost of beverage, then add (sales tax on the whole amount). Sorry, if this is not very clear. It amounts to a double taxation on carbonated beverages.
@ur momisugly Smokey.. And Germany consistently makes many of the finest products in the world. So the union method can work.
But what I think everyone should pay attention to is the pent up anger engendered by OWS. And the anger on the left and the right may very well merge this time around. The motto of OWS is that we are the 99%, not the 53%, not the 46%… the 99%. Those of us in the 99% have far more in common than we realize and often care to admit. Instead of being unified to better the 99%, we have consistently been divided, and when divided, we have been easily conquered by the 1%. Like it or not it is class warfare. Ron Paul and Ralph Nader are talking about how much even they see in common with all that is wrong so this division amongst the 99% may get set aside (temporarily) to wage some kind of warfare by the 99.99% against the 01%.
(There really there is not much difference in 99.99% of us, because 99.99% of us are a subject to financial catastrophe. Probably one in a thousand of us could weather a major financial catastrophe without being harmed and they represent the truly elite).
More and more of us are beginning to realize that these upper elites have far more than they can ever use while the rest of us stay on the precipice of financial peril. And this is causing the feeling among so many of the 99% that there is nothing left to loose. While some of you may see this movement as the movement of people of laziness, or of those just wanting a free ride, I think this analysis is seriously flawed. These people are desperate. They have no jobs, they have no prospects, they have lost their homes, and they have nothing to loose. Diss them at your peril.
OES signals to me we are on the brink of revolution. It may mean a dissolution of the union (as Lincoln called it). So for those of you who want the federal government to be smaller, you may get it. It may be real small government of the dissolution kind. A dissolution may be the only option because this government/big business marriage works great for the people who are the beneficiaries of this corrupt merger and they are not about to change it. I have extreme doubts this ship of state can eradicate enough of the rats on board for it to function much longer, and I think the OWS protestors think the same thing. OWS is going viral all around the country. The consensus seems to be that the corruption in Washington and Wall Street and the incestuous relationship between the two can not be stopped at the voting booth (which has its own corruption by both voters and the corporations that count the electronic computerized vote).
So guys, maybe you better rethink what OWS is all about. Revolution may be coming to a neighborhood near you, or you may soon find your country’s government is just your state government.
For what its worth, I am a lawyer and have been for 33 years, and if you can’t tell, I am very cynical about this country’s future.
Allencic says:
October 13, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Almost everything the OWS people want involves taking other citizens money. They either think it should be stolen directly or funneled through the government first. The name isn’t original with me but I think it’s totally appropriate that the OWS change its name to THE TEAT PARTY! The only thing they’re good for is sucking on the government tit.
Nice, useful term! Other than that, OWS doesn’t have a message. Except insofar as it’s the direct opposite of the Tea Partiers, who want less Federal Gov’t, for starters, and to be left alone to live their lives and make their way as free individuals protected by the U.S. Constitution, not enslaved by a bunch of revisionary Totalitarian Parasites, witting or unwitting.
People should stop projecting their own message upon the Teat Party. This only proves that it does not have a message. Let it speak for itself. So far all it says is, “I am a mob.”
Let’s see if it can even clean up after itself. Any bets? If it can’t do that, what are the chances that it or its members can do anything of value, except of course, to use or be used?
Steve from rockwood says:
October 13, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Doug,
Buffet made $49 million last year and paid $7 million in taxes. Salary is a small part of compensation. If you think that Jobs was paid one dollar then you may want to have someone else look after your investments or I’ve missed your point.
—————————————————————————————————–
This has been really fun guys. A self made multi-millionaire (ok, a small one) getting lots of advice from people whom I suspect are not, on how wealth, value, and compensation work. Trust me, I understand all your points. I also have insight some of you may not. I was very close to the president of one of the major oil companies. He often confided in me just how overpaid he was. His equivalents today get 20 times the compensation. I’ve had my eye on an oil company because I like their acreage position. I have not bought stock because the company lost 59% of its value last year and the CEO was paid 23 million for that stellar performance. Had Jobs done as poorly, his compensation would have been somewhat less.
Yes. Buffet made lots of money. He earned it. I own lots of Berkshire stock, the “A” stock, which goes for $112,000 a share, but has voting rights. I vote to retain Mr.Buffett, even if they name a tax after him.
There are many other executives out there who are walking off with the wealth of our corporations who do not earn it. The Occupy Wall Street kids get it. Far to many right wing free market evangelicals do not.
And to think, this guy was VICE PRESIDENT. How scary is that?
“I am a mob.” A greedy, needy mob.
If they’re waiting for the government to come up with a way to fix unemployment they are either not too bright or really, really not too bright.
These people need to go to the CEOs and say:
“Put me to work and I’ll show you what I can do. I will do everything in my power to to be of value to the company and help ensure we all make money so you can afford to hire me.”
Instead all I hear is “fix it!” As if the feds could.
Doug says:
October 13, 2011 at 10:50 pm
There are many other executives out there who are walking off with the wealth of our corporations who do not earn it. The Occupy Wall Street kids get it. Far to many right wing free market evangelicals do not.
————-
No you don’t get it. This kind of compensation is NOT free market economy. Free markets protect property and contracts giving away bonuses in good times for nothing while not having to pay back anything in bad times or for failure is eventually theft of property from shareholders. And this is failure of the judical system and not of free markets.
All this greed started to kick off in the 90s. Easy money, money for nothing by way too low interest rates triggered credit based speculation, created hedge fund billionaires, created coorporate greed and the eventually created the 2000 stock market bubble and burst. And this is failure of government intervention and not of free markets.
Garrett says:
October 13, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Being a part of the movement, here are some facts:……………………
The second form is social liberalism which is what countries like Denmark have. Essentially, it is the ultimate Democracy with the addition of Universal Healthcare and Universal Education. So not *all* socialism is a bad thing. And no, I’m not a socialist…just stating the facts as I said.
——————————
Denmark has a small population where peer pressure helps to control the slackers.
In the US we have 330 million people and almost 50% of them pay no income taxes and are already leeches. They’re willing to borrow another trillion dollars or so because they are unwilling to pay their fair share.
“The message — and the solutions — should be obvious…”
Not to the people who are occupying Wall Street. They have no solutions. The official statement released by OWS was all pointing out problems with no solutions. Well, they did offer a solution to ‘peacefully assemble’ and ‘figure things out’ which is to say they have no solutions.
All this greed started to kick off in the 90s….. And this is failure of government intervention and not of free markets.
———————————————————————————————–
Actually, cycles of gross inequity and destructive discontent go back far earlier than than the 90’s. Rome is not a bad starting point–you should be able to find several nice examples if you study your history, Manfred.
An intelligent society can smooth over the natural fluctuations and create a more livable world. Not all government is evil. Would you outlaw traffic lights? Get rid of our collective security such as fire, police, military? No, you just want to allow our economy to proceed without any of the advances of society.
The Occupy Wall Street crew are civilized people asking for a society where we draw a line and do something about the criminal element running loose in our system whether they be muggers, rapists, or hedge fund managers.
davidgmills says:
“So guys, maybe you better rethink what OWS is all about.”
It is a class warfare diversion intended to take the spotlight off of Obama’s total mishandling of the economy.
mills continues:
“Revolution may be coming to a neighborhood near you, or you may soon find your country’s government is just your state government.”
My country’s government is supposed to be primarily my state’s government. Read the 10th Amendment. This is the United States, not the Despotic Federal Government.
And for the rest of the jealousy-driven class warfare haters like davidgmills who quotes Abraham Lincoln, here are a few Lincoln quotes:
[BTW, still waiting for the envious class warfare folks to add pro sports multi-millionaires and Hollywood jamokes to their 1% hatefest.]
David says: October 13, 2011 at 1:51 pm…
I got it here http://econproph.com/2011/04/17/tax-rates-are-historically-low/
“the top 400 households in America pay only 16-17% average tax rate” Perhaps I could have worded it better, but the underlying statement is still true. The rich paying 17% tax is a recipe for future unrest in the US, sir.
Doubling tax rates would mean, Buffet would have to pay 14 million instead of 7 and Soros still 0.
Tax is an issue but not the issue for the explosion of speculation, bonuses and corporate greed. Those issues grew on super low interest rates, money printing, stimulus packages and are a consequence of poor government.
Manfred,
If the truth were told, you are every bit as ‘greedy’ as anyone else. Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway owes over $1 billion in back taxes. But because he’s an Obama fanboi he gets a pass. Your own motivation is clearly envy, and you obviously covet the assets of others. If you can’t personally get your hands on their property, you will take the next best thing as you see it, and support confiscating the fruits of successful peoples’ labor. Because you are jealous of their success. I live on a fixed pension, but it is still disturbing to me that so many plainly immoral people want to punish others out of pure jealousy and spite, simply because others have more than they do. It’s truly despicable. Look in the mirror some time.
FYI, Google avoids paying $1 billion in taxes every year. But it’s legal the way they do it. Your hatred should properly be directed at Congress and the President, who could easily change the laws – if they wanted to:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-13/irs-auditing-how-google-shifted-profits-offshore-to-avoid-taxes.html
Instead, the government is acting like ravenous hyenas. Government already takes well over half of every dollar we earn. But it is never enough:
http://ppjg.wordpress.com/2010/09/07/confiscation-of-private-retirement-accounts-us-departments-of-labor-and-treasury-schedule-hearing
Obama’s despicable class warfare strategy is designed to divert attention from his disastrous policy decisions, which perpetuate and significantly worsen the ongoing economic collapse:
http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/archives/18259-Eat-the-Rich!.html