From Al Gore’s blog, a clear signal that he’s lost it. Like McKibben, he’s like a moth attracted to a flame, looking for it to jumpstart his own failed movement.
Thoughts on Occupy Wall Street October 12, 2011 : 5:07 PM
For the past several weeks I have watched and read news about the Occupy Wall Street protests with both interest and admiration. I thought The New York Times hit the nail on the head in an editorial Sunday:
“The message — and the solutions — should be obvious to anyone who has been paying attention since the economy went into a recession that continues to sock the middle class while the rich have recovered and prospered. The problem is that no one in Washington has been listening.”
“At this point, protest is the message: income inequality is grinding down that middle class, increasing the ranks of the poor, and threatening to create a permanent underclass of able, willing but jobless people. On one level, the protesters, most of them young, are giving voice to a generation of lost opportunity.”
From the economy to the climate crisis our leaders have pursued solutions that are not solving our problems, instead they propose policies that accomplish little. With democracy in crisis a true grassroots movement pointing out the flaws in our system is the first step in the right direction. Count me among those supporting and cheering on the Occupy Wall Street movement.
You can support the protests by clicking here.
Al can start by giving me several million of his own dollars to help narrow the gap between him and me.
Al Gore has three large flat screens? Guess that’ll leave a footprint.
poor things….they are so jealous of the TEA Party…they will grasp at anything they can call a grassroots movement
Perhaps he should turn up to show support. The weather would then get so bad that there will be no-one there. But Al may be getting used to that. /sarc
Whenever Al throws his hat in a ring, he has a knack lately of accidentally grabing the towel. Bravo to him for dooming this “movement”. I don’t know which group of people is more lost, the protestors who don’t know what they are protesting or the rich bandwagoners who are trying to jump on a train that directly opposes rich people…
I don’t think Occupy Wall Street will lead to another Nobel Prize. But I could be wrong.
There never was a Global Warming Movement per se. It was always about socialism and left wing political objectives. The left just lied about it so long as they could make the case in the popular press.. Now they have to change gears, and Al Gore, as well as David Suzuki etc, will turn into WWF Occupiers and ultimately forget about global warming.
Remember, to them, the objective is population control.
Perfectly consistent. Al is all about derivatives and speculation, and Occupy is designed to support those activities by making dissent from Wall Street look crazy.
Al has clearly not done his research as usual.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/9269-big-soros-money-
This is a link to best OWS backgrounding I’ve found so far. Take it with a grain of salt but if you go to the http://occupywallst.org/ site and click on the Donate@NYCGA tab it takes you to a page where the Alliance for Global Justice is accepting donations.
Alliance for Global Justice <– WUWT and what does it have to do with OWS?
The real Al Gore revealed himself most spectacularly when he was running for President, and to counter the argument that he was a ‘wooden’ and emotionless dummy he gave poor Tipper the world’s phoniest kiss on live TV.
He is a total charlatan who would do anything to ‘win.’
Well of course Al Gore is supporting mindless street protesters…it’s his constituency.
So, if this occupy movement spreads, how about Occupy NASA/GISS, Occupy NCAR, Occupy NSF, Occupy DOE, Occupy NCDC? We can demand they give back the money flowing from the people to useless and expensive climate science projects and products…
He looks upon that intellectual wasteland known as Occupy Wall Street with admiration? Figures.
Clarence Darrow once called William Jennings Bryan “the idol of all morondom.” Since neither Mr. Darrow nor Mr. Bryan are with us any longer, I would like to propose that we give to Mr. Gore that title.
Al Gore; The Idol of all Morondom
Well, Al and I agree on something. I am retired, with a portfolio of investments in the seven figures. Many of the companies I invest in are being looted by a club of executives and board members. The average S&P CEO does not need 11 million a year to do their job. There are plenty of companies, particularly those outside the US which are better run, show better growth than the average S&P company, without overpaid leeches at the helm.
It’s always fun to see some old, wealthy twit trying to stay “relevant” with the “young, hip” crowd.
I mocked Bono for doing it, and I mock Gore for it.
Earth to Bono, Gore, and other multi-multi-millionaires preaching a non-wealthy lifestyle: GET STUFFED.
Where was Vice President al-Gore when all of this was starting? For that matter, why wasn’t MY generation so stupid as to protest in the streets during the early 80s recession? Hmm…. Oh yeah… because we saw the boomers protesting in the streets during the 60s and early 70s and realized how pointless and retarded it is. Get a job, work your way up — the same formula that has always worked.
This privileged, selfish, ignorant generation thinks they’re extra entitled. And yes, I know many of them. So many of them are loath to start at the bottom even though they have no training, no skills, no experience, and no knowledge. Everyone wants to be the lead singer, nobody wants to play rhythm guitar… (yeah, that’s a rant)
All the usual Hollywierdo’s (and I include Gore in that bunch, as well as the Dems in the Senate and House, and the White House, and the media vermin) are busting their buns to get some face time over this. They all spout the “support ” line, but I haven’t heard of any of them hiring a single protester. Or doing anything useful for that matter. The bums occupying that football size park ought to be tossed out by the owners of the park. It is private property, so they would have a perfect right to close it down.
First Al Sharpton climbed on board and now Al Gore. This is a massive percentage increase in Al that needs to be funded for further research. Get your checkbooks and pre-funded wink wink grants together.
Watch out OWS people, the Gore effect will make you all go home soon.
Do you really intend to host a link for contributing to these protests?
wow. Gore’s assets dont even put him in the 1%. he’s mostly likely in the 0.5%. pot, meet kettle…
The insanity of Gore being involved with the Occupy Wall Street movement I get, but disdain of the movement in general I do NOT understand. I don’t think it has anything to do with being jealous of anyone. It is born of frustration with the reality of today’s society and how polarized it has become financially. I’d say that the editorial linked to hit the nail right on the head.
“The problem is that no one in Washington has been listening.”
When the Tea Party protested no one was “listening” about the disapproval of Obamacare, the stimulus, bailing out GM etc they were racists or worse. Now that the left is protesting it is OK and understood and supported.
These protests are protesting capitalism not the unfettered expansion of government or the enslavement of grandchildren via massive national debt.
This whole thing is now coming to a fork and that is are we going to be a free people under capitalism with smaller government or slaves of the state under a socialistis larger government.
I know where I stand and it not with the occupy protesters. Nuff said.
“..our leaders have pursued solutions that are not solving our problems, instead they propose policies that accomplish little.”
Doesn’t that include Obama who happens to the president over the last three years and the Democrats who had a super majority for two of those 3 years?
I am morbidly curious about how this “occupy” effort precipitates into one or more cohesive political thrusts so I can’t take my eyes off it… like a train wreck.
Several truths will manifest:
1) The Media will push it down our throats like they did AGW.
2) It will be difficult to argue with because rational thinking will be shouted down.
3) It will advocate wealth redistribution of some sort… again
4) It will be the rallying cry for Obama et al 2012, ergo the media push in 1).
5) The groups will look as unwashed and inarticulate as the greenies, since they are one in the same.
6) They will use the atrophied AGW channels into government to advance the next new cause.
7) new rights assertions will come:
a) right to a free house
b) right to free health care
c) right not to work
d) right to free drugs (heroin, marijuana,…)
e) right to free meals
f) right to free university
I wonder if Chinaesque population control will come of age in the USA now?
Gore is a prime user of Wall Street. Take a look at his portfolio. Not many companies related to Global Warming solutions…
http://stockpickr.com/pro/portfolio/al-gore-generation-investment-management/fundamentals/
I don’t see how Al Gore has lost it on this one. All he writes is sound. You could claim he’s hypocritical, but that’s it.
Ever since Glass-Steagal was repealed (which was originally enacted to prevent another Great Depression on the heels of the first, in 1932), our economy has been on the titter, and then fallen; and this has rippled across the world. Our tax dollars have gone in to prop up commercial banks who are now doing what was illegal prior to 1999, and investing -our- money in risky and debt trading schemes. Putting a value on debt and selling it around? And what happens if it doesn’t end up being paid back? All the money they used, our money, to make a profit is vanished into thin air, and the government has to step in with our money again to make sure if you do a withdrawal from the bank, you actually get the funds you put in there back out.
This isn’t the full story or the only factor bogging things down (the real “job creators” are the inventors/researchers and venture capitalists, the ones who make product to be sold, and they are the ones being driven out of our country by bad policies), but it’s a prime problem behind it all that still remains unaddressed, and thus things still remain unfixed, unsurprisingly.
Occupy is a reaction to real duress, and didn’t spring up overnight; people have sat for years watching the stupidity.
@mkelly,
Occupy, from what I’ve seen of it, is -not- a protest by the “left”, nor the “right”. That’s what pundits don’t get: this is a movement devoid of “left” or “right”. It isn’t against capitalism, it’s against abuse and fraud, and many other grievances from high taxes to wasted taxes like Obamacare, and more; some cares legitimate some not.
Pay attention to what this is actually about. Capitalism isn’t being allowed to work like it should, and that seems to be one of the main issues Occupy is about. Lobbiests have corrupted government (“left” and “right”), and government has shackled the market so it barely moves these past years for anyone but those using our money to trade around debt and gobble up tax dollars from the government.
Does any of that seem right or reasonable to you?
@John from CA
From the desk of the Alliance for Global Justice
Occupy Wall Street Donations Release In Process of Resolution Stop Making Calls to E-Onlinedata
on October 7th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Earlier today, we asked supporters to call E-Onlinedata to demand release of tens of thousands of dollars donated for Occupy Wall Street, a fiscal project of AfGJ.
Following extensive conversations with the company today, we are confident that the situation is on its way to a rapid resolution. Please stop making calls to E-Onlinedata and please forward this alert to any listserves to which you may have forwarded our original alert.
E-Onlinedata strongly assured us that there was no political motive in freezing our account and holding the funds. The company stated that, in fact, the fault lies with AfGJ for a number of reasons but particularly because donations for our Occupy Wall Street project reached a volume that was orders of magnitude greater than any activity on our account in previous years, exposing E-Onlinedata to a level of liability not covered in our merchant contract with them.
We believe that this is a reasonable explanation and we have no evidence that E-Onlinedata is anything other than a reputable company servicing merchants and the banking industry. While we are strongly critical of the policies and practices of the banking industry as a whole, E-Onlinedata does not deserve to be held responsible for the sins of the entire industry. We apologize to E-Onlinedata for any actions on our part that may have been construed as reflecting negatively on their company.
We thank our supporters for their quick response to our alert earlier today. Your actions helped bring this situation to a satisfactory conclusion. We urge you to continue to speak out in support of issues that are important to us all and the future of our country and our world.
In Solidarity,
Chuck Kaufman
———————————————-
I was going to say that anyone dumb enough to donate is really getting some “global justice” as a fool and their money are soon parted, but it seems E-Onlinedata has frozen their account.
The is no rational way to deal with this mob.
Who is pushing this? In my home town it is the usual suspects… the eco-priests, the communists, the race-bating activists, the homeless advocates, …. you know… the usual suspects. Now the local news rag is conducting organization activities, explaining when and where the “planning” events are to be held. Seriously, the local newspaper is handling all the PR for the occupy mob.
.
The jobless underclass has been created by dumb politicians who have decreed that American (and European) workers must compete with Chinese workers on $1 a day.
The result was predictable enough – factories relocate overseas, and good that rich people like Al Gore buy are suddenly much cheaper. Thus the rich do gain, and the poor do lose, but this has as much to do with foreign policy as economics.
If Al Gore wants poor people to have jobs, he should be campaigning for import duties and controls.
.
.
Oh, and I should have added that relocating factories from the West to China has actually INCREASED emission – especially of CO2 (check out the Chinese power industry).
Thus Al Gore’s Green taxes, have and will continue to, INCREASE worldwide emissions of pollutants.
.
Income inequality is just a code work for socialism. Income *mobility* should be the goal for free market economies. We want an economy where people who start at the bottom can increase their earning power as they gain experience and contribute more. We don’t want an economy where people are constrained to live in specific casts with little opportunity to improve their lot in life.
If the opinions stated by that NYT article were accurate, I think I may support the ‘movement’ as well. If it had been my government bailing the banks out, I would be rather cheesed off. Then when the CEO who bankrupted the bank gets $3mil.+ bonus, I would be really mad… But my government never enacted ‘equality’ rules that forced banks to give mortgages to people they know couldn’t pay them back. My government didn’t allow some of those crazy lending rules you had (introductory sub-prime, interest only etc). So my government didn’t have to bail out our banks. Go figure…
no we have Al Gore, Soros, his new outlet, the New York Times, protesting against themselves. When will Goldman Sachs join and will the Tea Party claim copyrights ?
Curiousgeorge says:
October 13, 2011 at 11:25 am
It is private property, so they would have a perfect right to close it down.
=========
The park is owned by a corp. who donated it to the people of NYC with the stipulation it stay open 24 hours a day. It was donated so they could build a corp. building higher than stated standards.
They can’t throw them out of the park but could if they we in other NYC parks which have a curfew.
The protests are actually refreshing and there isn’t anything wrong with the Right to Assemble and Free Speech. Unfortunately, the MSM has not spent any time backgrounding the preplanning and keeps putting words in the mouths of the protesters.
Pretty odd, the AdBusters marketing stunt launched a leaderless movement who actually have a “General Assembly”, a website, accepts donations, ground rules, etc.
It will be interesting when the true story comes out — assuming it ever gets printed.
The original cause was correct about that the big money manipulates Washington in the direction they want them to go. However the problem is the self serving politicians we have elect into our government who do not have the integrity to stand up to the pressure from the lobbying and special interest to do what they were elected to do. If we don’t have a strong leader with integrity and courage that can cut through all the noise and set a clear direction that will benefit our true American values the big money will always win.
We have adapted a democratic system where we can make our voice heard and elect the right people with integrity that stands up for our cause. However this means that we cannot blame anybody else but blame ourselves if we don’t take our responsibility to guard the integrity in our society for our basic American values and kick out the ones that are not performing at the next election.
The original cause for the Wall Street protests was correct, but in the wrong place, and immediately when it started to get publicity it was high jacked by the extreme leftists and other misguided special interests jockeying for attention.
What we are seeing now is the mentality of the radical left guiding the entitlement generation by their nose to chant their philosophy of that it is somebody else’s fault that they have not been as successful as the ones that are making it on their own by hard work, firm goals, taking calculated financial risks, constructive participation in the society, and value adding choices in life.
We have a huge part of our society with cognitive blindness for what constructive contribution and responsibility for oneself and others are all about.
Occupy Wall Street was the idea of a Canadian on-line magazine called “Adbusters” according to its owners. This from a report claiming Soros money is behind the project [unlikely].
“It came out of these brainstorming sessions we have at Adbusters,” Lasn told Reuters, adding they began promoting it online on July 13. “We were inspired by what happened in Tunisia and Egypt and we had this feeling that America was ripe for a Tahrir moment.”
Makes me wonder how Global Justice can cash-in morally on someone else’s project. I thought it wasn’t about money. Oh, I get it. Forget it.
Ged says:
October 13, 2011 at 11:44 am
@mkelly,
Does any of that seem right or reasonable to you?
I have seen no signs from the “occupy” folks demanding repeal of Obamacare, lower taxes, less government, etc. What “occupy” seems to be about is a desire to have more government taking more control and that is not reasonable.
By the way Gore was on the board of Apple and he could have helped by demanding all Apple products be made in America, but he did not so why is he now supporting them?
Poor old algore. Any port in a storm, I guess. The kids on Wall Street as well as the Union Thugs should be in DC, as that is where this financial debacle was born. Lending money to folks who cannot afford it was a Democrat idea from day one. The banks simply jumped on board with both feet when the government agencies created by the government started buying the bad loans from banks allowing them to increase their profits with fees and then relend the money over and over. It became much more complex with all kinds of people, not just minorities, borrowing money for houses they could not afford, lower and lower down payments, less and less (or no) equity and then the securitization of those bad loans, etc. and the banks definitely exacerbated the problem.
As far as Wall Street, the playing field does need to be leveled for us stock holders to prevent executive management from paying themselves ridiculous salaries and bonuses without a vote of the non-executive stockholders and sitting on one and others’ boards and approving said pay plans. These issues could be easily fixed without the government taxing anyone or redistributing income. I am not so happy about bonuses at Bank America as I am a stockholder and actually believe quite a few of those folks should be prosecuted along with people like Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Maxine Waters who defended the poor banking practices to the end while receiving huge campaign contributions from those involved.
The left has always created problems and then used those problems to promote its own agenda. This is all nothing new.
Just wondering, how many times does Al have to yell ” BULL**** ” before they take his Nobel back?
Should there not be some type of ethics code? Like not lying, not cussing, not being a politician…
Steve from Rockwood says:
October 13, 2011 at 11:45 am
@John from CA
From the desk of the Alliance for Global Justice
Occupy Wall Street Donations Release In Process of Resolution Stop Making Calls to E-Onlinedata
on October 7th, 2011 at 12:09 pm
Earlier today, we asked supporters to call E-Onlinedata to demand release of tens of thousands of dollars donated for Occupy Wall Street, a fiscal project of AfGJ.
===========
Thanks Steve,
That clears up a few details.
If you do a google search for Alliance for Global Justice, you’ll run into a mission statement, their past projects, and the framework for the leaderless movement idea. I just couldn’t connect the dots with any facts. “a fiscal project of Alliance for Global Justice” connects them nicely.
Unfortunately, Alliance for Global Justice gets terrible marks as a charity:
Alliance for Global Justice
We envision societies which explore and implement alternatives to the unjust domination of governments, global financial institutions and multinational corporations which denigrate the world’s peoples and devastate ecosystems. We envision the development of a unified domestic and international movement of transformational grassroots organizations that promote a socially, ecologically and economically just world.
The Nicaragua Network, Campaign for Labor Rights, and Venezuela Solidarity Network are the three core projects of the Alliance.
Overall: 0 stars
Financial: 1 star
Accountability & Transparency: 0 stars
Board Chair: Donna Leist
President: Katherine Hoyt
(Hoyt is a graduate of Vassar College and has a Ph.D. in political science from Rutgers University.)
source: http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=6247
I will give 800 billion good reasons to support the Ocupation of Wall Street and lock up those theives, but Al Gore and his AGW junkies are not one of them…
@Ged.
This movement is being high-jacked by the left. It started out of the thought that Americans needed their own Arab Spring – a revolution to protest the corruption of government – and it was hatched in Canada. In many ways the Tea Party was such a movement but of the right. However this movement started, the left is moving in for better or worse (for the movement and for the left).
When you listen to many of the protesters, they are generally there out of frustration. Many are no longer employed. Many are students with student loans. They were trying to get free tuition when I was in university and unemployment back then was pretty high too.
So now Al Gore weighs in. Look at the lead photo. Al Gore: Ultimate Trader! Does that look like the leader of the green movement? A fat guy sitting in front of three flat screens? What ever happened to Tammy Fay Baker? Gore needs a good side-kick.
Doug says:
October 13, 2011 at 11:20 am
” The average S&P CEO does not need 11 million a year to do their job. ”
And who are you to tell someone else what they should be paid? If you don’t like the company you have invested in, take your investments someplace else.
You say you are “retired, with a portfolio of investments in the seven figures.” Perhaps the government should intervene because no one needs a seven figure portfolio. Perhaps the government should confiscate most of your “excess” and give it to those who have less. How’s them apples taste?
A Powerpoint that made us lose the faith in humanity (and the Nobel Prize committee)
http://www.amazfacts.com/2011/10/everyone-should-know-about-this-woman.html
Fred Allen says:
October 13, 2011 at 11:12 am
I don’t think Occupy Wall Street will lead to another Nobel Prize. But I could be wrong.
================================================================
No way to know that since they give them out preemptively these days.
How many carbon credits has Al earned by sequesting all that carbon piled up on his desk?
It’s not so sure that they are protesting capitalism, per se. Listen to one of the actual organizers of Oct 11, Kevin Zeese, who has made every effort to keep this non-partisan and broadly based. Here: http://rt.com/programs/crosstalk/99-wall-street-protest/
Steve from Rockwood says:
October 13, 2011 at 12:10 pm
Occupy Wall Street was the idea of a Canadian on-line magazine called “Adbusters” according to its owners. This from a report claiming Soros money is behind the project [unlikely].
==========
Mother Jones printed a story about the person who, several years ago, came up with Occupy Wall Street idea. Ironically, the New Yorker didn’t want to be identified because he now, wait for it, works for a financial services firm.
It would be interesting to discover how the concept ended up being released by AdBusters.
“But Soros’ support for the protesters goes far beyond his tepid public statements. In fact, the original call to “Occupy Wall Street” came from the magazine AdBusters, an “anti-consumerist” publication financed by, among other sources, the Soros-funded Tides Foundation.”
source: http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/9269-big-soros-money-
Remember when he hired a feminist as a consultant to help him appear more masculine? (Naomi Wolff).
Since Al Gore’s lowlife boss, Bill Clinton, and his administration repealed Glass-Steagal, allowing banks to go crazy with real estate investments risking everyone else’s money, his support of the protesters rings hollow indeed. If it weren’t for Clinton and friends, and an equal number of Republican bozos, the housing bubble would never have gotten off the ground, creating the worldwide economic crisis we are now facing.
These protesters may be mostly liberal and critical of conservatives (and vice versa), but the occupiers and the tea partiers are actually fighting the same thing. Instead of sniping at each other, they should be joining teams. The Wall Street banks should have been allowed to fail and drag down all their wretched executives, brokers, and unconscionable investors. They knew exactly what they were doing selling bad mortgages and then bundling them into investment products for suckers, or dumping them on the U.S. government via Freddie and Fannie. They laughed about it, swore there was no bubble, helped destroy millions of households, and never experienced an instant of reprimand. On the contrary, our crooked politicians rushed in to bail them out (because they themselves were heavily invested in the house-flipping Ponzi scheme), taking on all of their bad debt and throwing it onto the taxpayers. Meanwhile, the investment bankers have been living it up, with even bigger unearned bonuses and more outrageous golden parachutes.
Gore may be a fraud trying to cash in on yet another movement, but don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. The people responsible for the housing bubble and crash–and this includes millions of flippers and refinanciers–should bear the brunt of their own greed and stupidity. Millions of liar loans went out during that period, but has anyone been arrested or prosecuted? Before the AGW scam, the housing bubble was the biggest fraud ever perpetrated on the entire planet, and the very same financial interests who concocted and perpetrated that flimflam are heavily invested in the AGW/Green flimflam. The same people, the same banks, the same investment companies. These are the uber-selfish who want something huge at everyone else’s expense. And up till now, they’ve been getting everything they want.
If the occupy protesters could be shown that many of their supposed supporters are the ones who actually caused this mess in the first place and stand to gain trillions for further cheating with the AGW scam, it could change the dynamics overnight. The extremists do not represent the majority. Al Gore doesn’t represent anyone with a functioning brain.
Al Gore has always wanted to be “on the side of the Angels” or, preferably, the “head Angel”. Now, like any good politician, he sees a parade and jumps in front of it to lead it.
He is no angel; but rather a bent angle.
“Stupidity is the new normal. Those opposing us have Big Oil and rich people on their side. But we have something they don’t…
Insanity.
From Climate Reality to Primate Insanity — join us for another 24 hours of gripping television.”
Al Gore
(cartoons by Josh to follow…)
I don’t believe Gore has any genuine admiration for the protests of those much poorer and more insecure than him
Not only does Al have three JUMBO computer monitors, but he also has one flat screen TV burning away in the background.
A question for Al Gore:
Why would you exclude the media from your speaking engagements, if your message is so important ?
Sounds like the TEA party to me. Have you seen the list of proposed demands for OWS? Everything on that list is left-wing populist/anarchist/radical socialist. That’s why the “99%” moniker is so ridiculous. Anyone who thinks those demands represent 99% of the American populace needs to expand the circle of people they interact with.
What does Al know about being middle class?
Reminds me of a Ben Folds song…..
If you just have a look at the Soros networks – it is beyond shocking. They are virtually everywhere.
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=977
It seems very many countries have problems. We’ve certainly got ours here in the UK, but I am very surprised that many Americans cannot seem to see that the US cannot go on the way it has been going. Your highest rate of tax is a mere 17% (so I understand). This is totally inadequate. You WILL have serious unrest on your streets in the coming decade. You can point to our problems, or Europe’s all you like, but the US HAS to change.
These comments are hilarious! A few folks got it right, but most of you have utterly no idea what OWS is about, including the host of this blog. Progressives instinctly know what the rest of you cannot possibly conceive. This protest is about the fact that social defection is rewarded while social cooperation is punished, exactly the reverse of the way it should be. Most of the folks who frequent this blog are social defectors, and trying to get you to understand the merits of a cooperative society is like trying to explain color to someone born blind. You had your run and now your time has passed. Yes, Gore is a buffoon, yes CAGW is absurd, but the defector attempts to describe the priorities of social cooperators is even more pathetic. Here is a little tip for self-enlightenment: if you think the word “socialist” is a pejorative despite the fact that the modern socialist democracies of Europe are the most successful societies that ever existed on this planet, your soul has probably rotted away.
Ged says:
October 13, 2011 at 11:44 am
“Occupy, from what I’ve seen of it, is -not- a protest by the “left”, nor the “right”. That’s what pundits don’t get: this is a movement devoid of “left” or “right”. ”
That’s why George Soros supports it via TIDES, right? /sarc
(Soros -> Tides -> AdBusters -> OWS)
The Idiot Gore is a significant cause of the lost opportunities he decries. His policies choke a free economy and shackle creativity. What a jerk.
“We want an economy where people who start at the bottom can increase their earning power as they gain experience and contribute more.”
How ridiculous. Here in the UK we have had at least 2 decades of rich corporate types screwing down the wages of the average person whilst taking billions each year in profits. And instead of making these people pay a decent wage to thier workers the government under Gordon Brown introduced tax credits, so the tax payer tops up the wages of the average working man and woman whilst the corporate billionaires pay peanuts and manufacture their goods abroad and then sell them here using the roads, and other infrastructure paid for by everybody else, whilst paying the minimum taxes they can get away with.
And now these elites in the financial world have [snip] everything up so that even the pensions of the masses are now worth 30% less than they were only three years ago. But they are rich and recession is an opportuinty. The rest of us suffer.
WHy is it that only 40 years ago a single working wage was enough to buy a house and send a couple of kids to university? How did this change? Now both parents have to work their arse off just to stand still and god forbid that they can afford to send their kids to university. Meanwhile, the political and corporate elite who enjoyed free higher education have pulled up the ladders. Lets at least be honest about where we are. The baby boomers have had the best of everything – massive profits from housing, free further education, the last generation to get final salary pensions, and now they all sit about moaning how we should all pay for them. They took the lot and scorched the earth in the process. My own parents included.
Those at the bottom won’t ever increase their earning power. Those at the top will make sure of it.Look for a job in any part of the UK on Monster or TotalJobs – about 80% of them pay way way under the average wage. I live in Brighton – we have amongst the highest housing costs in the country but lower than average wages. Who is making money here? Not us, that’s for sure.
We will all eventually wake up to the fact that there is a vast majority of the human race in western societies who are being daily screwed by the elite – and that’s before you talk about green taxes or the cost of energy. There will be blood in the UK in the next 5 years if things do not change.
Tom in Florida says:
October 13, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Doug says:
October 13, 2011 at 11:20 am
” ” The average S&P CEO does not need 11 million a year to do their job. ”
And who are you to tell someone else what they should be paid? If you don’t like the company you have invested in, take your investments someplace else.”
I don’t know who he is but I am a stockholder who agrees with him as I am, by virtue of the stock I own, an owner of these companies and a previous corporate exec who knows how the game is played. Publicly owned companies are more poorly governed today to the result that non-exec shareholders have little influence on how their employees, the execs, are payed. Interlocking boards are a big part of that along with bonuses in voting stock for the execs which enhances their control. In the mid 1980’s highly paid CEO’s were in the range of $10mm total comp now they are in the $100mm or more range, with little relation to performance compared to in the 1980’s. And no matter where else you take you money the story is the same.
Doug says:
October 13, 2011 at 11:20 am
Well, Al and I agree on something. I am retired, with a portfolio of investments in the seven figures.
———————————————————
Why does a retired person need a seven figure portfolio? Did you earn it?
Perhaps Al and his supporters could occupy the Sun.
After all, it is cooler than the centre of the Earth.
Hypocrisy, thy name is Al Gore.
Matt Skaggs says:
October 13, 2011 at 12:59 pm
“Here is a little tip for self-enlightenment: if you think the word “socialist” is a pejorative despite the fact that the modern socialist democracies of Europe are the most successful societies that ever existed on this planet”
Matt, you don’t sound like a European; as a European would not have described the European democracies as socialist – most are social-democrats or conservatives. (I am German, so I know what I’m talking about.) Nor would he have described them as “the most successful societies that ever existed” (except for when he himself sits in Brussels, is a top Eurocrat and very happy with himself indeed, maybe having led a Maoist student uprising in Portugal in his youth). We might be having some seriously imploding Southern European economies soon, and the protestors in Spain and Greece would be HAPPY if they had American unemployment levels.
I think you’re SERIOUSLY deluded.
I’ve been fascinated by this event since it got off the ground and have spent far to much time researching it in the hope of understanding the underlying catalyst that supported the pitch.
Guerrilla marketing has been a facet of numerous campaigns, I was first exposed to it in the early ’90s and its amazingly cost effective.
Knowing the preplanning necessary to deliver a Guerrilla marketing swag, I still doubt its a grass-roots movement. Its current concoction of simplistic messaging designed to compel the foolish media et. al. to set it viral was and is, IMO, the intent. The interesting question is, who did the preplanning.
Who said you can’t get something for/from nothing ; )
I’m getting plugged into #OccupyGISS, #OccupyEPA, #OccupyWWF, and #OccupyUN
Taxes are an issue but not the issue.
Close to 0% interest rates (starting in the 90s under Clinton/Gore) created the credit bubble and turned speculators and hedgefond owners into billionaires. Savers and the real economy were the losers
They may easily pay higher taxes, but socialist low interest rates would continue to make them richer.
And people like Soros with assets on foreign Caribbean islands wouldn’t even bother about taxes.
Matt Skaggs says:
“…the modern socialist democracies of Europe are the most successful societies that ever existed on this planet…”
Matt, get a grip on reality. Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Slovakia, etc., etc. are real successful, aren’t they? And U.S. taxpayers are once again bailing out EU banks, to the tune of tens of trillions of dollars. The EU VAT makes everything much more expensive than in the U.S., and EU gasoline averages around $10 a gallon. That is not any sane person’s definition of a “successful society”. It is a failed, unsustainable welfare state, and the chickens are coming home to roost.
Re: “Occupy”
Occupants they are. They occupy our life, our efforts, our resources, our ambitions and hopes — without giving back anything substantial.
There is a certain truth in the notion that talent, success, special abilities and, generally, genetically or financially inherited advantages bring additional responsibility.
But a primitive and thievish “re-distribution of wealth” (read: robbing people of their efforts, of their strength and health, of their life and hopes) created obstacles preventing those few who make live easier for everybody to function productively, thereby making the poor and the unhappy poorer and more unhappy.
Is this so difficult to understand, parteigenossen Obama, Pelosi, Gore and Reid?
And the gods of the copybook headings
With terror and slaughter return…
In all fairness, it was the Republican-led Congress that passed the law to repeal Glass-Steagal. But you are right, this deregulation took place during the Clinton administration.
Anger over the bailouts is about all they have in common. The TEA partiers want less government, not more. Many of the occupiers want personal bailouts.
The occupiers aren’t asking for prosecution of people who took out fraudulent loans or took mortgages they couldn’t afford. One list of demands called for the end of credit reporting agencies. Their Democrat supporters in Congress passed the Dodd-Frank bill, which made ‘too big to fail’ permanent policy.
I don’t know if 99% of the people agree with this last statement, but I sure do.
10.You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”
“Nor anything that is your neighbor’s.” Next time you hear someone say we need to tax the rich or something along that line remember these words.
A moral people does not conduct themselves by coveting the material goods of others.
The Occupiers’ complaints and demands are somewhat incoherent. Yet the one thing that seems to be consistent is complaints that the rich are making too much money at the expense of the middle class. I’m not a fan of the protest, since I think their ideology is misguided, but they do have some valid complaints. The one I agree with the most is the crony capitalism in Washington that is allowing rich people to get richer, not because of what they know, but who they know in Washington.
Al Gore is a prime example of this type of crony capitalism. He invests heavily in green energy companies, and then lobbies his friends in Washington to give those companies tax breaks and loans at the expense of the U.S. taxpayer. Those breaks boost the stock price, allowing him to make money through his connections, whether or not the companies have sound business plans.
Al Gore is a target of the protests, both by the Occupiers and the Tea Party. He is a friend of neither.
Steve from Rockwood says:
“Why does a retired person need a seven figure portfolio? Did you earn it?”
While I agree that some CEO’s are overcompensated because shareholders have no real say in their pay, questioning a private citizen like you did is not only extremely rude, but it sounds like you want to confiscate his assets. I don’t hear anyone suggesting confiscating the enormous wealth of many pro athletes, or the Hollywood glitterati. Only buisnesses are demonized and targeted.
Coveting thy neighbor’s goods is immoral and tantamount to theft. It is that immorality that underlies and drives the “occupiers.” They all have enough to eat, they all have access to medical care, they all have cell phones, color TV’s, etc. But they are like ravenous hyenas when it comes to trying to steal the assets of private citizens.
DirkH says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:16 pm
“Matt, you don’t sound like a European; as a European would not have described the European democracies as socialist – ….”
======================================================
Dirk, I just wanted to say thanks. Its much better coming from people who live in the areas being spoken about.
Regarding The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley says:
October 13, 2011 at 12:57 pm
“It seems very many countries have problems. We’ve certainly got ours here in the UK, but I am very surprised that many Americans cannot seem to see that the US cannot go on the way it has been going. Your highest rate of tax is a mere 17% (so I understand). This is totally inadequate. You WILL have serious unrest on your streets in the coming decade. You can point to our problems, or Europe’s all you like, but the US HAS to change.”
Jim I do not know where you read such garbage, but it is very false. Federal income tax rates run from 10% to 35%, state income tax rates run up to 8%, sales tax runs up to almost 9%, coorporate tax rates are some of the highest in the world.
Additional hidden taxes in fees are without end…
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax
Gift Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Payroll Taxes
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)
Trailer registration tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
The good news is that Americans only spend 7.6 billion hours each year doing their taxes. How’s that for a bargain?”
As our incomes continue to fall, the Government steps in to take more:
“The lowest bracket for the personal income tax is going to increase from 10 percent to 15 percent.
The next lowest bracket for the personal income tax is going to increase from 25 percent to 28 percent.
The 28 percent tax bracket is going to increase to 31 percent.
The 33 percent tax bracket is going to increase to 36 percent.
The 35 percent tax bracket is going to increase to 39.6 percent.
In 2011, the death tax is scheduled to return. So instead of paying zero percent, estates of $1 million or more are going to be taxed at a rate of 55 percent.
The capital gains tax is going to increase from 15 percent to 20 percent.
The tax on dividends is going to increase from 15 percent to 39.6 percent.
The “marriage penalty” is also scheduled to be reinstated in 2011. It is being estimated that the total cost of these tax increases to U.S. taxpayers will be $2.6 trillion through the year 2020.
According to an analysis by the Congressional Joint Committee on Taxation the health care reform law will generate $409.2 billion in additional taxes by the year 2019.
Here are a few taxes that Americans already pay:
Accounts Receivable Tax
Building Permit Tax
Capital Gains Tax
CDL license Tax
Cigarette Tax
Corporate Income Tax
Court Fines (indirect taxes)
Dog License Tax
Federal Income Tax
Federal Unemployment Tax (FUTA)
Fishing License Tax
Food License Tax
Fuel permit tax
Gasoline Tax
Gift Tax
Hunting License Tax
Inheritance Tax
Inventory tax IRS Interest Charges (tax on top of tax)
IRS Penalties (tax on top of tax)
Liquor Tax
Local Income Tax
Luxury Taxes
Marriage License Tax
Medicare Tax
Payroll Taxes
Property Tax
Real Estate Tax
Recreational Vehicle Tax
Road Toll Booth Taxes
Road Usage Taxes (Truckers)
Sales Taxes
School Tax
Septic Permit Tax
Service Charge Taxes
Social Security Tax
State Income Tax
State Unemployment Tax (SUTA)
Telephone federal excise tax
Telephone federal universal service fee tax
Telephone federal, state and local surcharge taxes
Telephone minimum usage surcharge tax
Telephone recurring and non-recurring charges tax
Telephone state and local tax
Telephone usage charge tax
Toll Bridge Taxes
Toll Tunnel Taxes
Traffic Fines (indirect taxation)
Trailer registration tax
Utility Taxes
Vehicle License Registration Tax
Vehicle Sales Tax
Watercraft registration Tax
Well Permit Tax
Workers Compensation Tax
I dare say he would change his tune if the rabble showed up outside his door. After all, he is a rich guy with a zinc/germanium mine and 3 residences. Kinda qualifies him in my book as one of the rich guys that Warren is always complaining about. The morals of a hyena and the brains of a sea squirt after it has found its rock.
@David, it was plain taxing to read your list.
“Progressives instinctly know what the rest of you cannot possibly conceive. This protest is about the fact that social defection is rewarded while social cooperation is punished, exactly the reverse of the way it should be.”
I question this. Does social cooperation work on a large scale or does social cooperation get co-opted by psychopaths into large and oppressive tyrannies, like every time its been tried before?
“The way it should be” is a utopianism that most people as they get older, know instinctively that it leads to narrower and narrower freedoms in the name of “the common good”.
And I speak as a classical liberal, not a conservative or a libertarian.
Occupy Wall Street will die when the first snows come, or the people of New York have had enough of the garbage left by the demonstrators – whichever comes first. If there’s ever an opportunity to fumble a chance to reform Wall Street then OWS is it. It could make Wall Street’s shysters into victims when they least deserve it.
Its amazing that Al Gore has waited this long to give OWS his political kiss-of-death, but maybe he fancied a break from counting his money.
If I worked on Wall Street I’d be handing out coffee and doughnuts to as many demonstrators as possible. The longer they are there, the less likely that the US Government will impose reform on the financial industry.
On Al’s blog there’s this little tidbit..
“… Aspen Skiing Co. will feel the impacts of climate change directly; a lack of snow affects the entire $66 billion-per-year industry that depends on skiers and other winter sports enthusiasts for financial survival.”
….Looking a little closer at Aspen Skiing, we stumble on this from Business Week under Little Green Lies:
“..Schendler grits his teeth over the failure of modest proposals, such as his plan last year to refurbish one of the resort’s oldest lodges to use less energy. He estimated the $100,000 project would have paid for itself in seven years through lower utility bills. But the money went for new ski lifts, snowmobiles, and other conventional purchases. “The availability of capital is not infinite,” says Donald Schuster, vice-president for real estate.
Beaten back frequently, the environmental executive concedes that he made a mistake last year when he pushed the resort to make audacious green claims based on the purchase of “renewable energy credits.” RECs are a type of financial arrangement that companies increasingly use to justify assertions that they have reduced their net contribution to global warming. But the most commonly used RECs, which are supposed to result in a third party’s developing pollution-free power, turn out to be highly dubious (BW—Mar. 26). Aspen Skiing relied on RECs in declaring it had “offset 100% of our electricity use.” Schendler now concedes the boast was empty…”
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_44/b4056001.htm
I’m betting Gore gets free lift tickets.
Absolutely mystified. I think Gore’s barking mad when it comes to global warming, but I see nothing wrong with the rest of what he’s written above. The middle-class is getting screwed, and Washington has been bought and paid for by lobbyists. That includes both parties…Obama proposes a jobs plan that most economists agree would help, and the obstructionist Republicans who would rather burn our once proud country to the ground than do anything that might help him politically vote “NO.”
There should be protests in the streets. Something must change or we’re done for as an economic powerhouse…
My First thought is HYPOCRITE!
Al Gore supports OWS while at the EXACT SAME TIME the company he is President of (New Forest) PAYS an Africa government to toss people off their land and burn down their houses. GRRRRrrrrrr.
The whole They had to burn the village to save it from global warming makes me so angry especially when he has the GALL to try to paint himself as concerned with the poor. How the heck anyone can ever support this man especially after he is directly responsible for burning a child to death is completely beyond me.
I really would like to see that guy up on charges of conspiracy to commit manslaughter or what ever.
RE: Al Gore supports “occupy”
Why am I NOT surprised?
Take a look at the groups supporting a SF March in support of Occupy Wall Street. There is an easy to spot pattern to these groups:
http://occupywallst.org/article/occupywallstreet-union-march-foley-square-wall-str/
Don’t you mean “Wreckers”, the ones who are Counter-Revolutionaries and won’t give their all to the Commune? That’s what Stalin called them (us).
As for
Har-Ho-De-Har! Those most successful societies are on one of the steepest slipperiest slopes to Hades you’ve ever witnessed. I suggest you move there for a first-hand look-in and a share of the fun.
Hi Smokey – I get what you say about coveting (although I have no religion myself). However, we are WAY beyond covetousness. We are talking about people who have made billions off of the backs of all of us through corruption, plain and simple. Fabulous and uneeded wealth. It is beyond what is reasonable for a man to earn, or whether others are jealous. It is now a matter of urgent concern for people all over the world, not least those in developing countries held in the grip of poverty by policies such as the EU Common Agricultural Policy, etc. etc.
Our banking system is a perfect example. We, and our children and grandchildren, are now in hock to the banks for decades to come. The men and women who sit at the top of that pyramid are still and wil remain fabulously wealthy. Their profits are private, their losses are socialised. It is theft, pure and simple, as is recent US and UK QE.
At the same time we have a political elite made up essentially of parasitic suited millionaires who here at home, in the US, and particularly in the EU live a life of luxury whilst enforcing a democratic deficit that grows day by day and at the same time appear now to do very well indeed ot of public office. How did Blair, or Mandelson or Kinnock become so wealthy? How did that happen? DId Thatcher or Wilson or Major or Callaghan or Heath end their political careers so obviously rolling in money? Whatever we think of them all they were public servants first and foremost – they did not end their political lives as millionaires – nowadays almost all politicians do.
We all have our memories of politicians of the late 20th century that we disagreed with. Thatcher, Wilson, Carter, Reagan. But nothing since the war of independence in your wonderful country comes close to what we are enduring today. It is amazing how history repeats itself, but we are at that point, in my view. We actually do, all of us – the US, the UK, Australia, the EU, etc., live in a world where we have taxation without representation. You, our good and faithful friends in the US, have been there before and you remember what happened.
pokerguy says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Obama proposes a jobs plan that most economists agree would help
====================================================
Then why has he sat on it for the past three years?
Smokey says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:42 pm
“Coveting thy neighbor’s goods is immoral and tantamount to theft. It is that immorality that underlies and drives the “occupiers.” They all have enough to eat, they all have access to medical care, they all have cell phones, color TV’s, etc. But they are like ravenous hyenas when it comes to trying to steal the assets of private citizens.”
=================================================================
This is how we know the majority of the people there are disingenuous. If they really cared about the corruption and the governments complicity and facilitation of obscene personal wealth, then they would have been marching with the TEA party in protest of the bailouts and political payback of the stimulus packages. Where were they? My guess would be in mom’s basement waiting for marching orders.
Has any of them even spoken about this?
As to the posit that it is neither left or right………… from a post I made the other day.
Karen Livecchia, 49, agreed. “For now, it’s a lot like the Internet — leaderless, spaceless,” she said as she collected signatures at the march, spurred to action by an email from the liberal group MoveOn.org. “It’s hard to tell what it will lead to. But I’m not concerned that we don’t have specific demands — that will come.“
If they truly are neither left nor right, then they should distance themselves from people such as our friend Karen.
You can read the rest of that here.
Ralph says:
October 13, 2011 at 11:46 am
…….If Al Gore wants poor people to have jobs, he should be campaigning for import duties and controls.
____________________________________________________
You can say that again!
Also get us out of the “Free Trade” agreements like NAFTA and WTO and while you are at it get rid of the idiotic Red Tape and bureaucrats whose only purpose is to strangle small business. (Big Business has the money to pay the bribes)
Gore refers to “the rich” as if he were an outsider, looking in.
“”””” Tom in Florida says:
October 13, 2011 at 12:25 pm
Doug says:
October 13, 2011 at 11:20 am
” The average S&P CEO does not need 11 million a year to do their job. ”
And who are you to tell someone else what they should be paid? If you don’t like the company you have invested in, take your investments someplace else.
You say you are “retired, with a portfolio of investments in the seven figures.” Perhaps the government should intervene because no one needs a seven figure portfolio. “””””
Well I’m not retired, and likely never will be with the charlatans currently pulling the strings. But I have read Saul Alinski’s “Rules for Radicals.” So I’m fully aware of what Obimini and his fellow scoundrels are up to.
But I don’t worry about seven, eight or nine figure “salaries” either because I don’t invest in Companies; don’t know anyone who does either (cept Doug; whom I don’t know.).
Most people invest in market opportunities, and wouldn’t risk their life savings to any corporation or board of directors.
Look at Eastman Kodak; once one of the true golden companies (maybe still is); but the tide will come in and wash over them, if they don’t move their chair.
The OWS don’t upset me; leaves even more opportunities for MY kids; so I don’t have to chase off any other old worn out lions; their offspring will get chewed up by the jackals and hyenas.
I can see I have been right all along; intelligence is simply Mother Gaia’s latest gimmic for survival testing; and so far it doesn’t look like it has much of a future.
Matt Skaggs says:
“…the modern socialist democracies of Europe are the most successful societies that ever existed on this planet…”
============================================
Matt, what people fail to realize is that going socialist was a step up for those countries…..
Our country did not start out that way and going socialist would be a step down for us.
Almost everything the OWS people want involves taking other citizens money. They either think it should be stolen directly or funneled through the government first. The name isn’t original with me but I think it’s totally appropriate that the OWS change its name to THE TEAT PARTY! The only thing they’re good for is sucking on the government tit.
Jim G says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:05 pm
(In reply to : Tom in Florida says:October 13, 2011 at 12:25 pm)
“I don’t know who he is but I am a stockholder who agrees with him as I am, by virtue of the stock I own, an owner of these companies and a previous corporate exec who knows how the game is played. Publicly owned companies are more poorly governed today to the result that non-exec shareholders have little influence on how their employees, the execs, are payed. Interlocking boards are a big part of that along with bonuses in voting stock for the execs which enhances their control. In the mid 1980′s highly paid CEO’s were in the range of $10mm total comp now they are in the $100mm or more range, with little relation to performance compared to in the 1980′s. And no matter where else you take you money the story is the same.”
Sorry Jim, but cry me a river. If you do not like the game, do not play. It’s your money to invest where you want so it is your choice whether to go along or not. No one is holding a gun to your head to buy stock in companies you see as playing the game. Invest in something else or is your stock investment too good to let go? If so, then what are you bitching about?
On the same day Al Gore throws his weight behind the Occupy occupations, the Ayatollah in Iran did so as well.
In the Ayatollah’s words, the protests will bring down the capitalist system and the west.
Gore is keeping good company these days.
“”””” David says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:51 pm
Regarding The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley says:
October 13, 2011 at 12:57 pm
“It seems very many countries have problems. We’ve certainly got ours here in the UK, but I am very surprised that many Americans cannot seem to see that the US cannot go on the way it has been going. Your highest rate of tax is a mere 17% (so I understand). This is totally inadequate. You WILL have serious unrest on your streets in the coming decade. You can point to our problems, or Europe’s all you like, but the US HAS to change.” “””””
Where can I find such a garden of eden to move to (from California).
Federal Income tax 35%
State income tax 11%
State sales tax (or import duty) 9 1/4%
Social security taxes 12%
Plus a gaggle of other taxes and fees, like unemployment tax.
And please don’t try telling me that I don’t pay these; or my employer pays them; or half of them. They are ALL paid on behalf of my service to my employer; and could ALL otherwise end up in my pay check. If I don’t work for an employer, NONE of these taxes get deducted from MY pay, and delivered with my blessing to some government or another.; so yes I DO pay them all.
Al Gore and Warren Buffet lament that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Are you kidding me? They aren’t the biggest hypocritical jokes on the planet today?
I guess they are trying to distract the cold hungry masses so that they will be spared when the masses rise up and roll out the guillotine.
From Al Gore’s blog:
Translation: We just had an election and elected several new members to the House. The problem is, Al’s side lost the election and the new guys don’t want to play ball.
Income inequality isn’t making anybody poor. I won’t be richer if Al Gore, George Soros, Bill Gates Bill Clinton or the Koch brothers were poorer. One reason we don’t have more jobs is the job-killing legislation and regulations passed by the Pelosi-Reid Congress and the Obama White House. Just like the New Deal prolonged and deepened the Great Depression, so has the Obama agenda made this recession worse.
I agree that the current administration has done nothing but make the economy worse. Not withstanding that we have a republic, our democracy is fine. The people voted and turned your guys out of the House, Al, and several seats also changed hands in the Senate. Again, your guys lost and are desperate to do anything to hold on to power.
“With democracy in crisis a true grassroots movement pointing out the flaws in our system is the first step in the right direction”
I guess free enterprise is screwing up verdant democracy. These young useful fools will put it right.
JohnD says: October 13, 2011 at 6:21 am
Whan it comes to greens, never attribute to ignorance that which can be explained by
malicenaive noble cause corruption
Aerianne says: October 13, 2011 at 12:28 pm
A Powerpoint that made us lose the faith in
humanity andthe Nobel Prize committee http://www.amazfacts.com/2011/10/everyone-should-know-about-this-woman.htmland regain the faith in humanity
There, corrected
Manfred says: October 13, 2011 at 12:57 pm
If you just have a look at the Soros networks – it is beyond shocking. They are virtually everywhere. http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=977
“The road to Hell is paved with good intentions” – ?
Matt Skaggs says: October 13, 2011 at 12:59 pm … Here is a little tip for self-enlightenment: if you think the word “socialist” is a pejorative despite the fact that the modern socialist democracies of Europe are the most successful societies that ever existed on this planet, your soul has probably rotted away.
I don’t trust simplistic statements of either political leaning. Life is beautiful, juicy, complex and mysterious; its precious principles require a lot of careful observation, and often elude politics altogether.
We have lost the essence of freedom, and surprisingly it has been taken from us by a partenrship of politicians (government) and corporate interests. As Thatcher said:
“People are unequal. No-one thank heavens is quite like anyone else no matter how much the socialists may pretend otherwise. And we believe everyone has the right to be unequal, but to us every human being is equally important. A man’s right to work as he will, to spend what he earns, to own property, to have the state as servant and not as master, they are the essence of a free economy and on that freedom all our other freedoms depend.”
That world has gone. We are now all servants of a strange mix of sovreign debt, dishonest bankers and statist big government social democratic politicians. It has to end, please God.
pokerguy says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Obama proposes a jobs plan that most economists agree would help, and the obstructionist Republicans who would rather burn our once proud country to the ground than do anything that might help him politically vote “NO.”
===========================================
He didn’t have enough Democrazy votes either…..
…how are the Republicans obstructionist when he didn’t have enough Democrats either?
This so called jobs bill did not even exist when Obama was telling everyone that it did….that was a lie.
Then it was designed to not pass at all – not even enough Democrat votes going in – to fool people into thinking it was the best thing since white bread and blame it on the Republicans for not passing it…..some people were stupid enough to be fooled by it
Why isn’t everyone mad as hell that he sat on this wonderful JOBS BILL for three years? when we needed it three years ago?
Count me among those supporting and cheering on the Occupy Wall Street movement.
I was worried I was going to have to disagree with you as I tend to support them.
Gary Pearse says: October 13, 2011 at 2:32 pm
“With democracy in crisis a true grassroots movement pointing out the flaws in our system is the first step in the right direction”
It is only very recently that “democracy” came to mean “voting”. It originally meant “ordinary people in government”. It was taken directly into English with that meaning.
During the struggle for one-person-one-vote democracy became associated with that struggle, as it also did in communism to “government by the proletariat”. That is why the democrats in the US had the same name as “democratic socialism” aka communism in the East – it had nothing to do with elections.
I should say, that even the Greeks didn’t think elections were democracy. Indeed, they explictly said that election was ANTI-DEMOCRATIC, because an elite (bankers) tend to take over and buy the government (nothing changes). Instead they preferred government committees selected by lot.
The modern use of democracy to mean elected, really only derives from the period of Thatcher. It was a common call of the left to be “democratic”, but suddenly Thatcher saw that claiming western style “politics” was “democracy” was a way to claim the “democratic” high ground.
So, in a real sense, what we call democracy today is the anti-thesis of democracy. Which just goes to show, that if you how powerful spin is as most people have been brainwashed by the Thatcher Reagan era that democracy and voting for the rich politicians like Gore are one and the same thing.
In fact, democracy means government run by people like us, not rich bankers, rich politicians and funded by super-rich business people.
There is One envy, the world over, marginalized by those who lack the rights abroad. The USA is “rights of the individual” unlike all other countries on the face of the planet.
The USA includes, among other Individual Rights:
– Freedom of Speech
– The Right of Assembly
– Freedom of Religion
– Allodial Title to land ownership — there isn’t another country in the world that allows anyone to own the land they live on and the USA ensures the rights of ownership are not defiled by the current state of the party flavor in government.
Nothing is going to convince any intelligent American to give up these amazing Rights. If we’ve got a real problem, We the People can and will fix it.
The American People are awake and Occupy is a great reminder of our Rights.
Yet, to align oneself to the some foolish isn’t logical nor political. Al has officially left reality behind.
Ok, got some things stirred up here.
When does a retired person need a seven figure investment portfolio? Well when your only income is $808 a month in social security, and the interest and dividends (averaging 5%), it just keeps you middle class. I worked as a consultant most of my career and have no other retirement plan. I saved enough to retire on investments.
I have more invested with Warren Buffett’s Berkshire than any other entity. It would be nice if we had some regulations and mechanisms for disgruntled stockholders like myself to actually stop the looting, and invest with confidence in say, the S&P 500 index. The country and all the capitalists out there would be better off.
pokerguy says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Obama proposes a jobs plan that most economists agree would help, and the obstructionist Republicans who would rather burn our once proud country to the ground than do anything that might help him politically vote “NO.”
Are these the same economists that agree that TARP was a good thing? Or are they the ones that warned us about the housing/financial crisis?
Doug says:
October 13, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Ok, got some things stirred up here.
========
LOL,
My 401 k tanked when the markets dropped like a rock at the end of 2008. But I didn’t blame anyone for my investment choices. I knew I could have been in Stable Growth which is covered by insurance. I licked my wounds and watched the markets knowing bottoms are the best investment.
My losses are in the past. What exactly is your excuse for your bad investments?
Who’s behind the Wall Steet protests?
By Mark Egan and Michelle Nichols | Reuters – 32 minutes ago….
NEW YORK (Reuters) – Anti-Wall Street protesters say the rich are getting richer while average Americans suffer, but the group that started it all may have benefited indirectly from the largesse of one of the world’s richest men.
There has been much speculation over who is financing the disparate protest, which has spread to cities across America and lasted nearly four weeks. One name that keeps coming up is investor George Soros, who in September debuted in the top 10 list of wealthiest Americans. Conservative critics contend the movement is a Trojan horse for a secret Soros agenda.
Soros and the protesters deny any connection. But Reuters did find indirect financial links between Soros and Adbusters, an anti-capitalist group in Canada which started the protests with an inventive marketing campaign aimed at sparking an Arab Spring type uprising against Wall Street. Moreover, Soros and the protesters share some ideological ground.
… Soros, 81, is No. 7 on the Forbes 400 list with a fortune of $22 billion, which has ballooned in recent years as he deftly responded to financial market turmoil. He has pledged to give away all his wealth, half of it while he earns it and the rest when he dies.
… According to disclosure documents from 2007-2009, Soros’ Open Society gave grants of $3.5 million to the Tides Center, a San Francisco-based group that acts almost like a clearing house for other donors, directing their contributions to liberal non-profit groups. Among others the Tides Center has partnered with are the Ford Foundation and the Gates Foundation.
Disclosure documents also show Tides, which declined comment, gave Adbusters grants of $185,000 from 2001-2010, including nearly $26,000 between 2007-2009.
@ Russ Houston
They are the same economists who said the housing market wasn’t going to crash 🙂
Joe “bite me” Biden was in Flint, Michigan, not too far from my residence, telling everyone murder and rape will go up unless the Obama “jobs bill” gets passed.
So what happens in a year when the money runs out after the election, just continue printing more and more, handing it out like candy? Obama is simply attempting to make as many people as possible dependent on government for their existence.
If we’re at the point where the citizenry can fall for such gimmicks as the Obama “jobs bill” and re-elect him, then we may as well consider the country is already finished.
If government make-work jobs are the answer, why not just have the entire country work for the government?
Matt Skaggs says:
October 13, 2011 at 12:59 pm
“if you think the word “socialist” is a pejorative despite the fact that the modern socialist democracies of Europe are the most successful societies that ever existed on this planet…”
Matt, you must be amongst the well-heeled in the successful societies and not amongst the poor elderly who buy sets of used encylopedia to heat their humble dwellings with all the social democrat craziness about shutting down efficient, cheap coal fired projects to be replaced with windmills stretching as far as the eye can see (even solar projects in Scotland – not capitalist would support that!). Have you not been keeping up with the news from EU, then. It is falling apart as I knew some years ago it would. You can’t have an elite deciding what is good for us all – they can only decide what is good for them – socialists like Soros and Maurice Strong for example. The United States of Europe can’t survive as an economic force with a socialist philosophy and there is no chance of them escaping this killer of wealth because they invented it – as a decent solution for the tyranny of the early industrial revolution. Yes, there is a crisis of morality in the US and robbers on Wall Street are among the most destructive of examples. There needs to be a shake-up, but spare us the gray life of a perennially failed system.
TomRude says:
October 13, 2011 at 3:15 pm
Who’s behind the Wall Steet protests?
========
The interesting question, does Soros favor Big Government run by idiots to make the investments easier to book? So far the facts aren’t in but it does make sense when we’re got politicians like Big Al running around.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/9269-big-soros-money-
Here’s a laugh: Note the “logistics” that they are organizing. All courtesy of “modern industrial culture”, and those evil rich guys. Let’s see, 60 days would put it about the middle of Dec. Get’s pretty cool in Detroit in Dec. I’d say make them stay till Feb., 2012.
* Quote:
Protestors want to “occupy” Detroit for 60 days
Kim Kozlowski/ The Detroit News
Plans are under way for the Occupy Detroit movement on Friday but it became an issue for city officials since petitions were filed late and the occupation on Grand Circus Park is planned for 60 days.
“It’s a city-owned area,” Dan Lijana, spokesman for Detroit Mayor Dave Bing, said of the Grand Circus Park. “Normally people want to stay 3-4 days. Because of 60 days, it’s a different kind of ball game.”
Organizers also filed petitions late to City Council so actually they haven’t presented anything to anyone, Lijana said. Officials were meeting on Thursday to discuss the issue.
Late Thursday afternoon, Mayor Dave Bing and Police Chief Ralph L. Godbee, Jr. issued the following joint statement on the Occupy Detroit demonstration: “We are working to ensure that all citizens are able to assemble and express themselves peacefully and in accordance with the law.”
As the event drew near, organizers were working to firm up logistics such as parking, bathrooms, electricity and food deliveries.
The group — inspired by the protests on Wall Street seeking social, political and economic change — plans to meet at 4 p.m. Friday at the Spirit of Detroit statute on Woodward. It will then march to Grand Circus Park and begin an occupation with tents and more.
More: http://www.detnews.com/article/20111013/METRO/110130450/1409/METRO/Protestors-want-to-%C3%ACoccupy%C3%AE-Detroit-for-60-days
—-“My 401 k tanked when the markets dropped like a rock at the end of 2008. But I didn’t blame anyone for my investment choices. I knew I could have been in Stable Growth which is covered by insurance. I licked my wounds and watched the markets knowing bottoms are the best investment.
My losses are in the past. What exactly is your excuse for your bad investments?”—-
John—We are not that different. I have not made bad investments, and have more than re-couped any 2008 losses. As an informed, and engaged investor I want my corporations run responsibly, and I see a lot to agree with in the Occupy Wall Street movement. I’d like to see a banker or two in jail. I’d like to derail the little club awarding themselves over-sized bonuses from corporations which are indeed, too big to fail .Anyone who just assumes a totally unregulated market will look after them are the rightful prey of the 100 million a year executive looter.
Actual Al better stay away from the protest , given the Gore effect with all that is needed to kill the protest off is a few days of bad weather so much easier to protest when it warm and dry , so he turning up could be its death nail .
pokerguy says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:56 pm
Obama proposes a jobs plan that most economists agree would help
==================================================
Name one and give the reasoning behind that posit. I read this blog often, and I see a lot of silly comments…… this is probably one of the silliest.
I listened to his speech. I’ve read his proposals. They are idiotic, useless and wasteful. And that’s only if it is executed properly and we know it won’t be because he’s in charge of the executive branch.
Tell me, how is retaining teachers the school districts can’t afford useful? After the fed money is gone, the districts will be right back where they were. Same for the police. We’ve already witnessed his version of infrastructure improvements. The proposals would be laughable if the joke hadn’t already been played on us by him twice already.
Pokerguy, in case you don’t know this, I’m going to pass on some words of wisdom. You can’t spend your way out of debt and you can’t tax yourself to prosperity. This isn’t complicated. Wanna know what will get this country back to work, solvent and prosperous again?
Make energy and fuel cheap, available and reliable and quit the idiotic spending. I’d go into more detail, but the rest should be obvious from there. There would be some other policies that need changed, but those 3 things is all that is necessary to put people back to work, increase the revenues for the fed and decrease the expenditures. ——– classic economics…….. stuff that actually works.
BTW, I predicted this as soon as the debt ceiling was raised. If that moron isn’t intentionally trying to break this country, then he’s a complete idiot. I think the entire administration is only effective at keeping the Velcro industry afloat.
Being a part of the movement, here are some facts:
1. That article did hit the nail on the head.
2. Not everyone in the movement is a hippie, a greenie, anarchists, or socialists. These are american people, just like you.
3. There are two types of socialism, one bad, one good. Authoritarian Socialism is what everyone seems to want to paint anything good as. Authoritarian Socialism is the one most think of when they think of the political philosophy and is often called “evil.” In essence, it is. It’s a dictatorship afterall. The second form is social liberalism which is what countries like Denmark have. Essentially, it is the ultimate Democracy with the addition of Universal Healthcare and Universal Education. So not *all* socialism is a bad thing. And no, I’m not a socialist…just stating the facts as I said.
4. The protesters have sub-messages along with the one main message. They know what they are protesting. It’s still small, grass-roots, somewhat disorganized. It will grow, expand, and gain structure. Their message and goal is to end the strangle-hold the big banks have on political and social policy in this country. The message is their, even if the media spins it like there is no defined message or goal. If you haven’t gotten it by now, you probably never will.
Peace.
the increased reliance on financial instruments such as CDOs, CDSs and the like in recent years, has created a make-believe economy, prone to almighty crashes. the big banks should have been allowed to fail, and some bankers should have been jailed.
people who have their retirement funds in pension plans/Superannuation Funds could protect their money from the Carbon Dioxide Vultures, by transferring their funds into Cash Only optiions, where available, otherwise they might find their fund managers will blow the lot under the broad array of CAGW emissions trading scams. many of the OWS crowd are well aware of the bankers’ dreams of trillions from trading the air we breathe, so co-opting them will not be easy:
*****i’m no admirer of the IMF, but Simon Johnson captured the insanity of the finance sector in the following, lengthy piece in the Atlantic in 2009. look at the extraordinary figure of 41% for the financial sector’s share of “domestic corporate profits” in the last decade! CLEARLY UNSUSTAINABLE:
2009: The Atlantic: The Quiet Coup
The crash has laid bare many unpleasant truths about the United States. One of the most alarming, says a former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund, is that the finance industry has effectively captured our government—a state of affairs that more typically describes emerging markets, and is at the center of many emerging-market crises. If the IMF’s staff could speak freely about the U.S., it would tell us what it tells all countries in this situation: recovery will fail unless we break the financial oligarchy that is blocking essential reform. And if we are to prevent a true depression, we’re running out of time.
by Simon Johnson
*****From 1973 to 1985, the financial sector (in the US) never earned more than 16 percent of domestic corporate profits. In 1986, that figure reached 19 percent. In the 1990s, it oscillated between 21 percent and 30 percent, higher than it had ever been in the postwar period. This decade, it reached 41 percent…
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/05/the-quiet-coup/7364/
the Tea Party was inspired by Ron Paul, but was hijacked by the right.
OWS was not an “invention” ONLY of Adbusters. most of the protesters have more in common with Ron “Audit the Fed” Paul, who has endorsed the protests for their criticism of the Fed Reserve bailouts. he and other observers/participants are well aware certain interest groups are attemping to hijack the movement and we will see how effective the protesters are by whether or not the Fed announces another round of the quaintly-called Quantitative Easing…
No, these are the same economists who said the stimulus would keep unemployment below 8%.
Al Gore’s office looks even more messy and chaotic than his thoughts.
“He didn’t have enough Democrazy votes either…..
…how are the Republicans obstructionist when he didn’t have enough Democrats either?”
This is so typical. Why not open a newspaper before spouting off. 2 democrats voted no. Ben Nelson and Jon Tester. Reed changed his vote to nay at the end on a procedural maneuver.
Some supporters of OWS do want more Goverment and they love Obama, Gore, Biden Polosi. They are ignorant that it is Obama’s economic and energy policy destroying the middle class, and as the producers lose wealth, the Govt steps in to take more. Federal salaries have grown robustly in recent years, according to a USA TODAY analysis of Office of Personnel Management data. Key findin* Government-wide raises. Top-paid staff have increased in every department and agency. The Defense Department had nine civilians earning $170,000 or more in 2005, 214 when Obama took office and 994 in June of this year.
* Long-time workers thrive. The biggest pay hikes have gone to employees who have been with the government for 15 to 24 years. Since 2005, average salaries for this group climbed 25% compared with a 9% inflation rate.
* Physicians rewarded. Medical doctors at veterans hospitals, prisons and elsewhere earn an average of $179,500, up from $111,000 in 2005.
Federal workers earning $150,000 or more make up 3.9% of the workforce, up from 0.4% in 2005.
Since 2000, federal pay and benefits have increased 3% annually above inflation compared with 0.8% for private workers, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis.
Just how far out of whack has the pay and benefits of the federal government’s 2.15 million civilian employees become with respect to the 137 million other American workers? CBS News reported back in March 2010:
http://politicalcalculations.blogspot.com/2010/11/skyrocketing-compensation-of-federal.html
Matt Skaggs says:
October 13, 2011 at 12:59 pm
You are 100% wrong on all counts. Nice try. Hope no one takes your bait.
Your brand of socialism is for the simple minded or the lazy who wish to ride the coattails of the successful. Socialism is an unnatural and harmful state for any living organism. A free society is better for the whole than socialism can ever be.
Self determination is nature’s way and socialism attempts to subvert nature. That’s the big picture that simple minded folks craving “fairness”, “uinity” and “equality” cannot seem to grasp. Try looking a little further than your nose.
Jim G says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:05 pm
No one is forcing you to hold those stocks. You should march on down to your broker and sell them.
Then start up your own innovative company. Surely with all your wisdom you can do better than that fool earning the $100mm bonus!
Careful not to earn any excessive profit though! LOL
RB says:
“…we are WAY beyond covetousness. We are talking about people who have made billions off of the backs of all of us through corruption, plain and simple. Fabulous and uneeded wealth. It is beyond what is reasonable for a man to earn, or whether others are jealous.”
To prove you’re wrong, notice that it’s big news when a corporation is charged with corruption. There are over 70 million corporations in the U.S., and 99% of them are law-abiding. So your claim is patently false.
As for “fabulous and unneeded wealth”, who are you to be the judge? Who elected you to decide what is “reasonable”? If someone makes millions lawfully by providing goods and services that others are willing to pay for, who are you to try and confiscate the money they honestly earn? Moral bankruptcy is a hallmark of the Left. They are all thieves at heart.
And of course you are jealous. Green with envy. Someone else did better than you and got rewarded for it. But you’re not banging the drum for Tiger Woods and Oprah to have their hundreds of millions in personal wealth confiscated, are you? So you would steal the assets of honest businesses simply because you have been brainwashed to believe they are the problem – and because you approve of stealing from those you don’t like. Despicable.
pokerguy says:
October 13, 2011 at 5:05 pm
“He didn’t have enough Democrazy votes either…..
…how are the Republicans obstructionist when he didn’t have enough Democrats either?”
This is so typical. Why not open a newspaper before spouting off. 2 democrats voted no. Ben Nelson and Jon Tester. Reed changed his vote to nay at the end on a procedural maneuver.
================================
This is so typical. Why not go back to school and learn to count before spouting off.
They needed 60 votes, they did not have enough democrat votes going in to pass it……….they had 51……………..
It was never meant to pass in the first place……they knew it wouldn’t pass, and just wanted to use it so they can call republicans obstructionist……and some people are stupid enough to fall for it
Doug says:
October 13, 2011 at 2:53 pm
Ok, got some things stirred up here.
When does a retired person need a seven figure investment portfolio? Well when your only income is $808 a month in social security, and the interest and dividends (averaging 5%), it just keeps you middle class. I worked as a consultant most of my career and have no other retirement plan. I saved enough to retire on investments.
———————————————-
Doug, I would be the first to defend your right to your seven figure investments that you have earned.
I earned my money too and put three kids through university. When I see people whitewashing CEOs and their pay I get worked up. Was Steve Jobs worth 11 million per year? Of course not! More like 110 million.
And when I see kids graduating with a degree in political science wanting their 24,000 in student loans written off, I wonder why I have to pay for everything.
So guard your money closely. They are looking for a free ride.
Garrett says:
October 13, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Being a part of the movement, here are some facts:
———————————————————————–
Excuse me but you are not part of the movement.
The middle class does not want to be represented by socialists, Soros, Gore and the New York Times. They actually hate Al Gore. And they have their own genuine movement – the Tea Party – and do not want to be misrepresented by hijackers.
What they want is not a new socialist model but to address and fix the causes of the current crisis. And this is:
1. Stop 0% interest rates. This punishes savers and real investors but makes credit based speculators incredibly rich.
2. Justice needs to address the issue of bonuses and stock options, massively stealing property from company owners and putting it into pockets of managers. It is theft, if bonuses or stock options are awarded for success but nothing has to be paid for failure.
3. Tobacco industry style investigation is required against main funders and promoters of the climate change swindle.
4. People who financed corrupt regime changes in other parts of the world need to face justice in those countries, such as Georgia or Ukraine.
5. Political influence of rich individuals has to be capped.
6. Ethnic networking needs to be investigated and stopped – not only on Wallstreet.
pokerguy says:
Absolutely mystified. …Obama proposes a jobs plan that most economists agree would help, and the obstructionist Republicans who would rather burn our once proud country to the ground than do anything that might help him politically vote “NO.”
——————
Why is it that politicians accept the second half of Kensyian economics – spending borrowed money to temporarily create jobs – but forget the first half – getting out of debt, getting out of the way of business and building up a war chest. If countries went into recessions with a surplus they would come out with a much smaller deficit. A 1930s economist would faint if he were alive to see this mess.
Uh, huh. So let me understand, you’re saying the Democrats are equally obstructionist because 2 of them voted no? 2 Democrats versus every single Republican.
You really see an equivalency there?
If you can’t understand there’s something wrong with your logic then there’s no sense trying to explain it to you.
pokerguy says:
October 13, 2011 at 5:52 pm
Uh, huh. So let me understand, you’re saying the Democrats are equally obstructionist because 2 of them voted no? 2 Democrats versus every single Republican.
========================================================
They needed 60 votes going in to break the filibuster……they knew going in they only had 51 votes.
They did not need 2 votes, they needed 9.
Which means they needed some republicans to vote “yes” on it, and they knew that wouldn’t happen.
They had no intention of the bill passing when they introduced it……..they knew it wouldn’t pass.
They wasted our money again, introducing a bill that they knew, going in, that they did not have the votes to pass it. They didn’t even get all of the democrats to vote “yes” on it.
If you can’t understand there’s something wrong with you logic, then there’s no sense trying to explain it to you.
Steve says:
“When I see people whitewashing CEOs and their pay I get worked up. Was Steve Jobs worth 11 million per year? Of course not! More like 110 million.”
—————————————————————————————-
Nice example Steve. Jobs was paid ONE Dollar in salary. Warren Buffett only gets $99,999 more. I have nothing against executives having an interest in the success of their company and benefiting from that. I am down on the ones with a 20 million dollar bonus regardless of whether or not they do their job:
“According to the Wall Street Journal, Apple reported to the Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) that Jobs only receives $1 per year.
It may be hard to believe that Jobs only makes a three figure salary – in pennies – but don’t worry he’s more than adequately compensated in shares and reimbursements. Though he still does not receive equity, he received $248,000 this past year for the use of his private plane for business purposes and owns 5.5 million of the company’s common stock (and is the company’s largest shareholder).
Obama knew when he proposed the bill it was not going to be passed. It wasn’t designed to be passed, it was designed as a plank for his reelection platform. The Obama jobs plan was such a non-starter Harry Reid delayed the vote on it for over a month.
BTW – What makes you think it would it work any better than his last stimulus plan?
Why just Wall Street? Why not occupy his house too? Isnt it unfair that that he live in such a big house and have such a large compound when 99% dont?
“Wreckers!” Somebody knows his Solzhenitsyn.
It’s too bad people don’t learn real history anymore. Socialism only works through force or the threat of force. The OWS people should Google the literal meaning of the word “Utopia.”
Here is an interesting perspective………. a comment from the NYT Editorial linked above:
John Jazwiec
Chicago and Old Naples
October 9th, 2011
6:52 am
I have consistently posted comments to the Times about the problem of the 99%, the need to stimulate the economy, the need to raise taxes on the wealthy and even predicted social disorder that makes Occupy Wall Street seem tame. I have also posted why the movement is less about Wall Street and more of a protest of the establishment.
With that said, I am have been a CEO for the last 10 years, and am part of the 1%. Not all of us are evil. Not all of us make our money by running a casino or on Wall Street.
In a world where labor, best-in-practive methods, automation and supply chains are ubiquitous; only creative people can add value. The only reason my life’s arc is different, is that I am not a conformist. I have ideas and then I mine the world of ubiquity.
Tax me higher please. But at the same time, as I have said to MBA students as an adjunct professor, no book or degree is going to make you successful or even employable. Instead you need to be unique value creator.
Who is a unique value creator? In general, it is someone that can’t be duplicated within certain geographies. Examples are: an innovator, an entrepreneur, a salesman, a gifted writer, a local HVAC specialist and a local community banker who knows what kind of businesses work and don’t work to make the best loans, come to mind.
Who is not a unique value creator? Pharmacists, GPs, Eye Doctors, accountants, computer programmers and lawyers come to mind. Pharmacists and GPs end up working for CVS. Eye doctors work part time for Lenscrafters. Computer programmers, be they offshore, or domestic have to meet a market price of $30 per hour. Lawyers also are forced to compete in the same darwinistic hyper-world economy
The days of posting a resume is not where the world is heading. That worked a decade ago. The protestors don’t understand their own obsolescence. They are victims of unpredictable titanic forces. Schools are conformist factories. Only the non-conformists, can be unique value creators.
Doug,
Buffet made $49 million last year and paid $7 million in taxes. Salary is a small part of compensation. If you think that Jobs was paid one dollar then you may want to have someone else look after your investments or I’ve missed your point.
Doug says:
October 13, 2011 at 6:06 pm
Uhhh….Doug…..do you think Steve Jobs had to buy all that stock? The stock options diluted the shareholders the same as would a cash bonus. You really don’t seem to get it.
Al Gore donates all of his “salary” to a non-profit, but he is now drowning in over $100 million of the guilty green. Did he print all that evil money?
Anthony, it’s too bad you decided to remove the “Al Gore is an I***t” descriptor from your blog. It definitely qualifies in this case.
Doug,
Jobs owned $4 billion worth of Disney stock which netted him about $47 million in dividends. He was given a $90 million jet by Apple which pays the annual operating expenses valued at over $776,000 in 2007 alone. He owned about $1.2 billion in Apple stock.
The guy was worth every penny but likely earned more than $1 per year.
Doug says:
“Anyone who just assumes a totally unregulated market will look after them are the rightful prey of the 100 million a year executive looter.”
Doug, the market is not there look after your money. That’s your job.
@ Sloan says: October 13, 2011 at 12:24 pm
I will give 800 billion good reasons to support the Ocupation of Wall Street and lock up those theives, but Al Gore and his AGW junkies are not one of them…
————————————————————-
Sloan I second this.
I will add the anti-union rhetoric I see coming from Americans (and to a lesser degree Canadian Conservatives) is part of your problem. Unionized laborer set the bench mark for the middle class and it’s the middle class that make a country prosperous not the 1% rich. Germany and Canada are two highly unionized countries that are handling this down turn better than any of the other G8 countries. BTW do not bother to throw Greece in my face; their problems are pure incompetence on a scale that by far outweighs a unionized work force issue.
It wasn’t the Unions that gave us the “.com” melt down or this latest investment banking melt down (rip off). CEO’s getting multi-million dollar bonuses while they take down companies and economies are the problem compounded by Corporate Socialism (bail outs).
Don’t underestimate these Wall St. protests, these people have legitimate grievances and ad hominem attack on these protesters is a grievous error. The rich (modern royalty) always try to hang on to their lucre and power way to long with disastrous results.
@Dave Worley says:
October 13, 2011 at 6:38 pm
Here is an interesting perspective………. a comment from the NYT Editorial linked above:
John Jazwiec
————————————————————————
Hey Dave, this John Jazwiec comment exemplifies why you and him just don’t get it.
You have got to be kidding . . . . .
@richard says:
October 13, 2011 at 6:32 pm
Why just Wall Street? Why not occupy his house too? Isnt it unfair that that he live in such a big house and have such a large compound when 99% dont?
———————————————————————————————–
Hey Richard, historically the 1% European Royalty that controlled 90% of the wealth had allot worse things done to them than having someone occupy their house.
Michael Dell on CNBC today complained about the lack of skilled Americans as being a serious limit to growth for Dell Computers. I wonder how many people in the Wall Street walk-about are qualified to join his company?
Sun Spot says:
“Unionized laborer set the bench mark for the middle class and is the middle class that make a country prosperous not the 1% rich.”
Non-sequitur. The existence of private sector unions doesn’t make much difference to a country’s prosperity one way or another, only to how it’s divided up. But public sector unions reduce prosperity based on Bastiat’s Broken Window fallacy.
The real problem is public sector unions, which should be abolished. In the private sector a union will not destroy its host by demanding too high a pay scale, because that would put all the workers out of a job. But in the public sector the taxpayers are feasted upon by overpaid union workers who provide votes to politicians, who then pass the expense on to an unwilling public.
It is a corrupt and dishonest system that is completely out of control. Public employee unions, like all unions, have become dues collection organisms, first and foremost. Unions are not really needed any more. And I say this as a four time elected President of my Local, and twice elected to statewide union office. Public employee unions like the SEIU should be outlawed for being contrary to the public interest.
@Smokey says: October 13, 2011 at 7:32 pm
You’re wrong, it does follow. Unions set the pay grade of the middle class, eliminate the unionized worker and you eliminate the middle class (it’s called class warfare).
Dave Worley says:
October 13, 2011 at 6:38 pm
Here is an interesting perspective………. a comment from the NYT Editorial linked above:
John Jazwiec
Chicago and Old Naples
October 9th, 2011
6:52 am
—————————————–
Dave,
Why is it that all CEOs want to see their taxes raised just as they are ready to retire? Where was this guy at the start of his first year? Oh, making money.
Hopefully, it doesn’t turn into a window-breaking, car-burning, zombie-movie.
It is just like climate science. A theory, a feeling, an emotion, illogical.
But the real world with a real 7 billion people operates the best under a 65% capitalist / 35% government model. Just like climate science theory versus the real climate, the real world economy works better under a free-market system even though theoritically a socialist / communist system could work. Facts are a different story.
Human nature runs human society and the human economy. After that, we have Laws, Police, Property Rights and Government when human nature does not work very well for a modern society If something needs finetuning like banking/mortgage laws, we should just fix it.
Sun Spot,
You may believe that, but it simply isn’t true. A typical example is Singapore, with a large, very prosperous middle class and little in the way of unions.
LOL: Of COURSE THAT MORON WOULD SUPPORT THE REST OF THE MORONS. Thank God, because it just helps us destroy the “progressive” monsters!
Back when I was a mindless conservative, I would have dismissed OWS too.
Since I started thinking for myself, I’m not so quick to reflexively dismiss people.
Then I found this:
http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1
…and now I wish I could join up with them.
“Dave,
Why is it that all CEOs want to see their taxes raised just as they are ready to retire? Where was this guy at the start of his first year? Oh, making money.”
Yeah, I agree that was a dumb part of the essay. Like Buffett….getting “religion” late in life.
When all the pent up captial does finally get released it will be explosive.
It’s waiting out there.
I like the 9-9-9. It’s simple and could be the start of something good.
@Smokey says: October 13, 2011 at 7:43 pm
It simply is true. A typical example is Germany, with a large, very prosperous middle class and a highly unionized workforce.
I like the 9-9-9.
Me too….but what would we do with all the unemployed accountants?
Sun Spot,
Thank you for proving my point that unions are irrelevant to a country having a prosperous middle class. Both Singapore and Germany have a prosperous middle class. Thus, it does not make a difference whether or not there is a unionized workforce. QED.
David says:
October 13, 2011 at 1:51 pm
More fodder for you taxes/fees list:
Cable TV taxes and fees
California non-sensical taxes — order a hot sandwich to go pay, sales tax on it; order a cold sandwich to go, no sales tax [not supposed to be anyway, but many retailers charge on both hot and cold].
Carbonated beverages –
California sales tax on carbonated beverage:
add (CA CRV) + (sales tax on CRV) to cost of beverage, then add (sales tax on the whole amount). Sorry, if this is not very clear. It amounts to a double taxation on carbonated beverages.
@ Smokey.. And Germany consistently makes many of the finest products in the world. So the union method can work.
But what I think everyone should pay attention to is the pent up anger engendered by OWS. And the anger on the left and the right may very well merge this time around. The motto of OWS is that we are the 99%, not the 53%, not the 46%… the 99%. Those of us in the 99% have far more in common than we realize and often care to admit. Instead of being unified to better the 99%, we have consistently been divided, and when divided, we have been easily conquered by the 1%. Like it or not it is class warfare. Ron Paul and Ralph Nader are talking about how much even they see in common with all that is wrong so this division amongst the 99% may get set aside (temporarily) to wage some kind of warfare by the 99.99% against the 01%.
(There really there is not much difference in 99.99% of us, because 99.99% of us are a subject to financial catastrophe. Probably one in a thousand of us could weather a major financial catastrophe without being harmed and they represent the truly elite).
More and more of us are beginning to realize that these upper elites have far more than they can ever use while the rest of us stay on the precipice of financial peril. And this is causing the feeling among so many of the 99% that there is nothing left to loose. While some of you may see this movement as the movement of people of laziness, or of those just wanting a free ride, I think this analysis is seriously flawed. These people are desperate. They have no jobs, they have no prospects, they have lost their homes, and they have nothing to loose. Diss them at your peril.
OES signals to me we are on the brink of revolution. It may mean a dissolution of the union (as Lincoln called it). So for those of you who want the federal government to be smaller, you may get it. It may be real small government of the dissolution kind. A dissolution may be the only option because this government/big business marriage works great for the people who are the beneficiaries of this corrupt merger and they are not about to change it. I have extreme doubts this ship of state can eradicate enough of the rats on board for it to function much longer, and I think the OWS protestors think the same thing. OWS is going viral all around the country. The consensus seems to be that the corruption in Washington and Wall Street and the incestuous relationship between the two can not be stopped at the voting booth (which has its own corruption by both voters and the corporations that count the electronic computerized vote).
So guys, maybe you better rethink what OWS is all about. Revolution may be coming to a neighborhood near you, or you may soon find your country’s government is just your state government.
For what its worth, I am a lawyer and have been for 33 years, and if you can’t tell, I am very cynical about this country’s future.
Allencic says:
October 13, 2011 at 2:21 pm
Almost everything the OWS people want involves taking other citizens money. They either think it should be stolen directly or funneled through the government first. The name isn’t original with me but I think it’s totally appropriate that the OWS change its name to THE TEAT PARTY! The only thing they’re good for is sucking on the government tit.
Nice, useful term! Other than that, OWS doesn’t have a message. Except insofar as it’s the direct opposite of the Tea Partiers, who want less Federal Gov’t, for starters, and to be left alone to live their lives and make their way as free individuals protected by the U.S. Constitution, not enslaved by a bunch of revisionary Totalitarian Parasites, witting or unwitting.
People should stop projecting their own message upon the Teat Party. This only proves that it does not have a message. Let it speak for itself. So far all it says is, “I am a mob.”
Let’s see if it can even clean up after itself. Any bets? If it can’t do that, what are the chances that it or its members can do anything of value, except of course, to use or be used?
Steve from rockwood says:
October 13, 2011 at 6:43 pm
Doug,
Buffet made $49 million last year and paid $7 million in taxes. Salary is a small part of compensation. If you think that Jobs was paid one dollar then you may want to have someone else look after your investments or I’ve missed your point.
—————————————————————————————————–
This has been really fun guys. A self made multi-millionaire (ok, a small one) getting lots of advice from people whom I suspect are not, on how wealth, value, and compensation work. Trust me, I understand all your points. I also have insight some of you may not. I was very close to the president of one of the major oil companies. He often confided in me just how overpaid he was. His equivalents today get 20 times the compensation. I’ve had my eye on an oil company because I like their acreage position. I have not bought stock because the company lost 59% of its value last year and the CEO was paid 23 million for that stellar performance. Had Jobs done as poorly, his compensation would have been somewhat less.
Yes. Buffet made lots of money. He earned it. I own lots of Berkshire stock, the “A” stock, which goes for $112,000 a share, but has voting rights. I vote to retain Mr.Buffett, even if they name a tax after him.
There are many other executives out there who are walking off with the wealth of our corporations who do not earn it. The Occupy Wall Street kids get it. Far to many right wing free market evangelicals do not.
And to think, this guy was VICE PRESIDENT. How scary is that?
“I am a mob.” A greedy, needy mob.
If they’re waiting for the government to come up with a way to fix unemployment they are either not too bright or really, really not too bright.
These people need to go to the CEOs and say:
“Put me to work and I’ll show you what I can do. I will do everything in my power to to be of value to the company and help ensure we all make money so you can afford to hire me.”
Instead all I hear is “fix it!” As if the feds could.
Doug says:
October 13, 2011 at 10:50 pm
There are many other executives out there who are walking off with the wealth of our corporations who do not earn it. The Occupy Wall Street kids get it. Far to many right wing free market evangelicals do not.
————-
No you don’t get it. This kind of compensation is NOT free market economy. Free markets protect property and contracts giving away bonuses in good times for nothing while not having to pay back anything in bad times or for failure is eventually theft of property from shareholders. And this is failure of the judical system and not of free markets.
All this greed started to kick off in the 90s. Easy money, money for nothing by way too low interest rates triggered credit based speculation, created hedge fund billionaires, created coorporate greed and the eventually created the 2000 stock market bubble and burst. And this is failure of government intervention and not of free markets.
Garrett says:
October 13, 2011 at 4:07 pm
Being a part of the movement, here are some facts:……………………
The second form is social liberalism which is what countries like Denmark have. Essentially, it is the ultimate Democracy with the addition of Universal Healthcare and Universal Education. So not *all* socialism is a bad thing. And no, I’m not a socialist…just stating the facts as I said.
——————————
Denmark has a small population where peer pressure helps to control the slackers.
In the US we have 330 million people and almost 50% of them pay no income taxes and are already leeches. They’re willing to borrow another trillion dollars or so because they are unwilling to pay their fair share.
“The message — and the solutions — should be obvious…”
Not to the people who are occupying Wall Street. They have no solutions. The official statement released by OWS was all pointing out problems with no solutions. Well, they did offer a solution to ‘peacefully assemble’ and ‘figure things out’ which is to say they have no solutions.
All this greed started to kick off in the 90s….. And this is failure of government intervention and not of free markets.
———————————————————————————————–
Actually, cycles of gross inequity and destructive discontent go back far earlier than than the 90’s. Rome is not a bad starting point–you should be able to find several nice examples if you study your history, Manfred.
An intelligent society can smooth over the natural fluctuations and create a more livable world. Not all government is evil. Would you outlaw traffic lights? Get rid of our collective security such as fire, police, military? No, you just want to allow our economy to proceed without any of the advances of society.
The Occupy Wall Street crew are civilized people asking for a society where we draw a line and do something about the criminal element running loose in our system whether they be muggers, rapists, or hedge fund managers.
davidgmills says:
“So guys, maybe you better rethink what OWS is all about.”
It is a class warfare diversion intended to take the spotlight off of Obama’s total mishandling of the economy.
mills continues:
“Revolution may be coming to a neighborhood near you, or you may soon find your country’s government is just your state government.”
My country’s government is supposed to be primarily my state’s government. Read the 10th Amendment. This is the United States, not the Despotic Federal Government.
And for the rest of the jealousy-driven class warfare haters like davidgmills who quotes Abraham Lincoln, here are a few Lincoln quotes:
[BTW, still waiting for the envious class warfare folks to add pro sports multi-millionaires and Hollywood jamokes to their 1% hatefest.]
David says: October 13, 2011 at 1:51 pm…
I got it here http://econproph.com/2011/04/17/tax-rates-are-historically-low/
“the top 400 households in America pay only 16-17% average tax rate” Perhaps I could have worded it better, but the underlying statement is still true. The rich paying 17% tax is a recipe for future unrest in the US, sir.
Doubling tax rates would mean, Buffet would have to pay 14 million instead of 7 and Soros still 0.
Tax is an issue but not the issue for the explosion of speculation, bonuses and corporate greed. Those issues grew on super low interest rates, money printing, stimulus packages and are a consequence of poor government.
Manfred,
If the truth were told, you are every bit as ‘greedy’ as anyone else. Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway owes over $1 billion in back taxes. But because he’s an Obama fanboi he gets a pass. Your own motivation is clearly envy, and you obviously covet the assets of others. If you can’t personally get your hands on their property, you will take the next best thing as you see it, and support confiscating the fruits of successful peoples’ labor. Because you are jealous of their success. I live on a fixed pension, but it is still disturbing to me that so many plainly immoral people want to punish others out of pure jealousy and spite, simply because others have more than they do. It’s truly despicable. Look in the mirror some time.
FYI, Google avoids paying $1 billion in taxes every year. But it’s legal the way they do it. Your hatred should properly be directed at Congress and the President, who could easily change the laws – if they wanted to:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-10-13/irs-auditing-how-google-shifted-profits-offshore-to-avoid-taxes.html
Instead, the government is acting like ravenous hyenas. Government already takes well over half of every dollar we earn. But it is never enough:
http://ppjg.wordpress.com/2010/09/07/confiscation-of-private-retirement-accounts-us-departments-of-labor-and-treasury-schedule-hearing
Obama’s despicable class warfare strategy is designed to divert attention from his disastrous policy decisions, which perpetuate and significantly worsen the ongoing economic collapse:
http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/archives/18259-Eat-the-Rich!.html
Regarding
The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley says:
October 14, 2011 at 12:16 am
David says: October 13, 2011 at 1:51 pm…
“I got it here http://econproph.com/2011/04/17/tax-rates-are-historically-low/
“the top 400 households in America pay only 16-17% average tax rate” Perhaps I could have worded it better, but the underlying statement is still true. The rich paying 17% tax is a recipe for future unrest in the US, sir.”
Thank you it helps clarify your view. A few problems with the article. For many mega rich their tax on capital gains actually reduces their marginal 35% rate, wheras for most it would raise it. Capital gains on dividens for instance, are in many ways, a tax on an after tax profit. US coorporate tax rates are quite high which reduces income to individuals.
The article fails to point out state taxes and sales tax, as well as a host of federal and state and local fees/taxes. The top two percent of earners in this country supply 60% of the venture capital, which unlike funds to Obama that only create more drain on the tax payers and temporary jobs, create real jobs that produce wealth.
It is true that executive compensation has skyrocketed for the top, and personnaly I do not think they earn it for the most part. However it is such a small percent of America that to double the tax on the mega rich would only run this country for two or three days in a year. The real problem is that Govt is way to large and incredibly wasteful, with Govt employees recieving far better compensation then non govt employees, and as my second post illustrated, govt compensation had grown at almost four times the rate of private sector compensation since 2000,
Also OWS people think they can solve a corrupt Govt, with more Govt. Personally I do not think corporations should be allowed any lobby powers. All requests for legislation should be done via open forum public internet posting period.
Capitalism is in many respects fundamentally honest. It is an admittance that personal gain is never absent, even in the most altruistic, and so capitalism makes no pretense of removing personal gain. It also makes no moral judgment of personal gain being bad. It is a neutral admittance that desire for personal gain exists, and cannot be legislated away. Social systems that vainly seek to legislate selflessness only condense the personal gain aspect into the most powerful people within the government, and in removing liberty and personal power from the common man, engender helplessness in the masses.
The one who prospers in capitalism has the freedom to become a philanthropist, or the freedom to use his wealth in a narrow selfish way. Capitalism however has a basic tenet: the Unites States’ recognition of the right to seek self gain, (capitalism) combined with the fact that we are a “republic” guaranteeing freedom from tyranny of other groups or from the tyranny of the majority, be that majority religious, political, corporate, or a combination thereof, is highly moral. However in empowering the individual there must be a strong co-commitment element of self-responsibility. One cannot expect the protections such a society enables, without both self responsibility and offering some form of service back to that society.
The love of power for the purpose of subjugating others for one’s own end cannot be removed by any system. It just operates less effectively within a system built expressly for protection from such tyranny. The responsibility of the US form of government is to prevent the formation of such tyrannies: Corporate monopolies that unfairly drive out competition, lobby groups looking for special privileges, banking methods that rig the monetary system and allow leverage of assets tantamount to gambling, fractional reserve banking on steroids, government decisions making risk public but profit private, government sponsored enterprises that, under direct supervision of government regulators do all of the above, are not caused by a capitalist / republic, but are a sick perversion of it caused by the love of power over others, and the lack of wisdom as revealed by satama dharma. It is the failure of the US government to police the above which is dereliction of their primary responsibility, the protection of individual freedom and power, from the tyranny of those with group power.ant stating that even the purely selfish accumulation of material goods, if acquired in the honest production of a good or service of value to others in society, produces good for that society.
Maybe Al gore should don the pink gloves and join the protesters and clean up the park that they’ve been “occupying” in a repugnant manner. There should be plenty or brooms, mops, etc. available. so Al doesn’t have to puncture his fortunes.
@Sun Spot says: October 13, 2011 at 7:39 pm
“You’re wrong, it does follow. Unions set the pay grade of the middle class, eliminate the unionized worker and you eliminate the middle class (it’s called class warfare).”
The point Smokey was trying to make was not about unions in general but about the difference between private and public sector unions.
Private sector unions: Negotiate with the company, cannot demand more than the company can pay or they will be out of their jobs.
Public sector unions: Negotiate with politicians who are given huge political donations by these same unions. The “company” in this case is the rest of the populace in the state, they negotiate with the people. Can demand anything they want because the state can always raise taxes, there is no cap on state “earnings”.
You nailed it, my brother. I cannot speak for other countries, but these welfare malcontents cannot ever succeed here in the USA. They may mess up the cities which are already cesspools of Socialism anyway and whose residents have mostly asked for this, but once they move into the free country their movement will end rather quickly, perhaps with a bang.
Another brilliant point which gets to the heart of the matter. These Socialists are not just an alternative point of view, they are common criminals that due to a quirk of fate, the modern civilized world does not punish them as in the past. It would appear that they, like young undisciplined children, are intent on pressing this temporary advantage to the absolute limit in order to find out just what punishment awaits them.
In the USA these Socialist malcontents usually show up in the polls at 25% to 30% where they hide under the monikers of Liberal or Progressive. That is the bottom of the well of the Democratic Socialist party. When they said 99%, they must have meant: Our movement is 99% Socialist, we have a few regular dummycrats for show.
This is a profound point and it was worth repeating. Public Sector Unions give us the scenario where union members represented by union mafia bosses are ‘negotiating’ with other union members in the Local, State and Federal governments for money taken from the taxpayers. It is a whole new level of corruption. They are vultures picking the bones of the taxpayers and must be destroyed.
Yes. This is the mathematical destruction of society. And they know full well at the end of the day what will happen when the number of parasites exceeds the number of hosts. So we must face the fact that their intent (the Socialists) is to destroy society and freedom itself, once they run out of our money.
ROTFLMAO! “Neither left {huh?} nor right” … It “isn’t against capitalism” {really?}… and many other “grievances from high taxes to wasted taxes like Obamacare” {what!}… You are talking about the ‘Occupy Wall Street’ movement. Wall Street? The figurative capital of Capitalism? LOL! Nice try though!
You say: “Tea Party was such a movement but of the right“! So, our Revolutionary Founding Fathers were right-wing then? Tax-Revolts are right-wing? Limited government is right-wing? I knew the revisionism was running deep, but just how deep was unclear until now. Someone else described the truth of the matter much better: Right Wing and Left Wing are the two extremes of Socialism, running from Fascism to Communism, from National Socialist to International Socialist. You will have to leave us pro-American Jeffersonian Constitutionalist types out of your little political drama. You can take both wings of your Socialist bird and [self-snip].
‘Occupying Wall Street’? The center of the Capitalist universe??? Ummm, go back to sleep.
‘Socialist‘ *is* a pejorative. Failure to understand this means it is *your* soul that has rotted away because you do not understand or care about two concepts that probably date back to cavemen: private property and stealing. Socialists are criminals based on their single-minded desire to take OPM (Other People’s Money). What we are seeing are a bunch of people protesting (how daring!) instead of thanking us the taxpayers, for throwing money away supporting their worthless meaningless lives. You’re welcome.
Stop blaming the wrong people. You forgot to blame the voters themselves who are a large part of the problem. They have continually voted for Socialists in all levels of government, their votes purchased by the promise of being showered with Other People’s Money.Over a TRILLION dollars (a THOUSAND BILLION) of deficit each year added to the debt because dummies decided in 2006 to pack the Congress with Socialists and in 2008 to place a little twerp of a Chicago politician with a rubber stamp in the White House. Congratulations to those that took part in this grand experiment. You must be so proud.
You completely avoided addressing the facts when you made up the term social liberalism, a non-sequitur to what you started with. What we do have is Democratic Socialism as the complement to Authoritarian Socialism. And what it is, is foxes and chickens voting on what’s for dinner.
There is another description for Democracy and our Democratic Socialism, it is ‘Mob Rule’ by a squeaking majority or even plurality vote. It could be as simple as a plurality of commenters clicking thumbs down on your comment, or the neighborhood association votes you off their island, or when your fellow voters decide to take your money and buy windmills or solar panels or degenerate artwork with it. The possibilities are endless really. “Peace” you say? It’s time y’all dropped this phrase. You do not mean it.
They saw that Egypt thingie, and the UK riots and got jealous The French Revolution and Red October still makes them envious.
Anyway, this diversion will not work. They cannot erase the consequences of a hundred years of Socialism by wishing it away and blaming the bankers. The Socialist or Progressive movements have bankrupted almost every country on Planet Earth, they are all battling impossible budget failures and currency collapses and much more is yet to come. You see, the Socialist gravy train is what is about to collapse, not America. The ‘Welfare State’ is reaching critical mass, spontaneous fission is occurring. They had their silly criminal experiment and the time is up. I always said that with Obamacare and then AGW as the final nail, when added to the two previous budget killers Social Security and Medicaid, this would break this camel’s back. They can try to divert attention away, but alas, it will not work.
And we should rethink what? Perhaps we should renegotiate with them and increase the current level of Socialism and size of government further in order to appease these dirty Socialist malcontents? Puhlease! “We demand immediate forgiveness of all debts”. Bwaaahaahaa. We’re laughing hysterically! 🙂 “Revolution”? They don’t scare us at all. Besides, this is one of the main reasons for the Second Amendment. What I always say personally to these miserable welfare-seeking Socialist malcontents is: Why don’t you just come and try to take my money yourself. 😉
So the Koch brother sponsored Tea Party think that some rich people are sponsoring the “occupy Wall Street” movement. Projection anyone?
Al would crash a 4 year olds birthday part for attention… So wouldn’t McKibben
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2011/10/13/127171/gore-climate-change-to-blame-for.html
The Republican Party has its’ “Tea Party”
and now the Democrat party, in partial recognition of their “unwashed masses”, has its’ “Flea Party”.
Ann Coutler sez: http://frontpagemag.com/2011/10/13/meet-the-flea-party/
As for Europe having the most successful societies on Earth. I don’t know about that.
People living at the poverty line would qualify as solidly middle class in most of Europe.
That doesn’t sound very successful to me.
If we taxed 100% of the income of people in this country who make $1 million and above, it would run the government for 4 months.
“So the
Koch brotherSOROS sponsoredTea PartyOWS think that some rich people [like the Nazi and convicted felon George Soros] are sponsoring the ‘occupy Wall Street’ movement. Projection anyone?”If it were not for psychological projection, the jealous OWS haters wouldn’t have much to say.
Wow!….Robespierre: MAXIMILIEN ROBESPIERRE:
TERROR AND THE FRENCH REVOLUTION – QUOTES
A controversial figure in the history of the French Revolution, Maximilien Robespierre was the head of the radical Jacobin Club. During the early years of the revolution, Robespierre became head of the Committee of Public Safety, a committee in the National Convention. It was Robespierre who declared that a revolutionary dictatorship was necessary in defense of the revolution, due to the threats posed by domestic opposition and foreign invasion. The “Reign of Terror” that followed sent thousands of nobles and other “enemies of the nation” to their deaths on the guillotine, including Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette. In 1794, however, Robespierre was himself arrested and guillotined.
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Communism/Robespierre%20Quotes.htm
MarkW,
Sorry, but that’s an absurd statement you make there. UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Luxembourg, Austria, Norway, Sweden, Denmark… If you REALLY do believe that people living on the poverty line in the US equate to the middle class in Europe then you need to stop watching TV and tour Europe. Europe has its poor areas like Romania, to name just one, but there is considerable affluence here amongst the middle classes.
I wish Al came to Spain for a bit of his effect, it’s beeing the hottest October on record… Average maximum temps are beeing higher than the previous absolute maximum ever set.
It’s now been 4 months without rain in southern Spain…
This “protest” is still gaining and still gaining focus. There are still “crazies” whose actions make greate photo ops but do not reflect the majority of the protesters.
This protest is NOT new. We’ve been there before! As an historical reference check out the following:
Banks of Marble – Pete Seeger: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-o3CJytIPE
The parrallel is awsome!
Man, being from Canada, I just don’t see this so called “income inequality”. I am shocked at how much today’s youth will get paid if only they would work. For casual labor, they will get paid 50% more than I did for semi skilled labor only 12 years ago. The only inequality I see is the other way.
Maybe it is different down South, I don’t know.
New document dump at Breitbart (if someone has already posted, I apologize for the repetition) with emails detailing the coordinated effort of various groups in starting and maintaining OWS.
http://biggovernment.com/thomasryan/2011/10/14/the-email-archive-of-the-occupywallstreet-movement-anarchists-socialists-jihadists-unions-democrats/
Grassroots it is NOT.
Kolokol [October 13, 2011 at 12:32 pm] says:
“It’s not so sure that they are protesting capitalism, per se.”
‘Occupying Wall Street’? The center of the Capitalist universe??? Ummm, go back to sleep.
So, what did you think of Zeese’s presentation? And BTW the Oct 11 Group was formed long before OWS, since May, and has done 10 marches in Washington. It was formed explicitly to find common purpose among the so called right and left. You seek to highlight divisions, I seek to find common ground. I guess with such a diverse movement we will both find what we want. Furthermore ,if you listen to them the capitalism most of them are referring to is corporate capitalism, finance capitalism, vulture capitalism and so on and that’s why you will find small “L” libertarians in solidarity with OWS and OCT 11. The Left blames the corporations while the Right blames the government but there isn’t any substantial difference, which makes rightism and leftism a loser’s game.
excerpt from one of the emails, quoted here:
http://biggovernment.com/abreitbart/2011/10/14/crowdsource-this-social-list-emails-expose-occupywallstreet-conspiracy-to-destablize-global-markets-governments/
“We’re in this for the long haul. There are no “solutions” that can be presented quickly to make us go away. And so there will be moments where our presence is no longer an uncomfortable and unknown variable, but rather is normalized and integrated. It’s in those moments that we have to push the envelop [sic], pry open the space of possibility even farther. We go as far as we can to destabalize [sic], but maintain momentum. And when that’s the new “normal” then we go farther. That’s how change happens, how we shift the terrain and the terms of the game.”
Sound familiar?
@Smokey says: October 13, 2011 at 9:04 pm
Thank you for proving my point that unions are irrelevant to a country having a prosperous middle class. Both Singapore and Germany have a prosperous middle class. Thus, it does not make a difference whether or not there is a unionized workforce. QED.
Smokey, Thank You for that statement, so stop blaming Unions for economic woes that they have little to no impact on. But I will continue to blame capitalist extremist corporations for taking down the economy like they did with the .com collapse in 2000 and the latest Banking collapse.
P.S. your QED is misplaced as the Singapore middle class is quite different than the German middle class, they are not equivalent.
Sun Spot,
Thank you for your opinion that the middle class in one country is different than the middle class in another country. That makes no sense, it’s like saying a millionaire in one country isn’t like a millionaire in another country. But you’re entitled to your opinion.
I support the right of private sector employees to unionize. But public sector unions should be tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail for being unaccountable parasites on the taxpaying public. Would you support a law making public sector unions illegal?
Hey, Smokey!
Not all unions are bad, even in the public sector. Some unions and public administrators hae let the union power get way out of hand. At the federal level, unions are prohibited from striking. Also there is a lot of playing favorites, even in government, and unions help provide a vehicle to protest unfairness.
I used to be a non-union contractor at Social Security and had a good chance to see both sides.
Yes, Barbara it sounds familiar and it may all pan out as a rigid left (whatever that means) movement just as the Tea Party was hijacked into establishment Republican supporting “useful idiots”. You should hear some of their organizer’s warnings to the OWS and Oct 11. It could happen and judging by what I’ve seen of many popular movements it will happen, which is precisely why I seek common areas rather than divisive ones. Won’t that be fun to see two groups, both with legitimate complaints and large areas of common agreement fight each other constrained by the cattle chute of antiquated ideological blinders. Meanwhile, this from a Oct 11 organizer: “We have no desire to unify those that consider themselves democrat or republican, politically speaking…we want to fire them all, and start from scratch…”we are the 99%” tells you that we automatically are bridged with all common citizens, against the greedy and corporate elite that control the money, the military, and the media.”
Tea Party founder backs Occupy Wall Street
http://rt.com/usa/news/tea-occupy-denninger-wall-819/
Hey Windjammer2!
I agree that unions are valuable for fighting arbitrary discipline, which should only be issued according to arbitrator Daugherty’s landmark 7 questions for just cause discipline.
But the point I have been trying to make is that public employee unions, whether they can strike or not, should be illegal [as President FDR said].
Who represents the taxpaying public? In my town police officers average over $202,000 in annual pay and benefits. They can retire at 50 with 97% of their last 3 years’ average pay – which routinely includes plenty of overtime. And all of their benefits continue for life. If non-union police officer jobs were offered at say, $65,000 a year, there would be a line of applicants from San Francisco to Miami.
Who represents the taxpaying public? Certainly not public employe unions, which are nothing but parasites on taxpayers.
Thanks, Smokey!
I totally agree that some of the benefits and especially the retirment “arrangements” are totally out of line. I live in the Chicago area and some of these agreements are just coming to light – Totally “Chicago Style” bordering on corruption.
Keep the dialogue going!
I see little common ground here. Both the TEA party and the OWS groups are upset about some of the same things, such as the bailouts and the actions of the Federal Reserve.
The Taxed-Enough-Already party thinks taxes are too high for everyone and the government is too big and doing things it shouldn’t be doing. The OWS movement seems to stand for more government, more entitlements and taxing some people more. I don’t know where you’ll find common ground between the two.
You can bet that if the Great Unwashed came for Al Gore’s money, he’d be screaming his head off.
Same goes for Roseanne Barr, George Soros, Michael Moore and all the rest of the hypocrites who think THEY won’t be pushed against the wall by the Marxists (but then they must have never really read the histories of the Soviet, Cuban and Chinese Revolutions…)
Smokey,
My brother is a police lieutenant in Norfolk, Va, and gets nowhere near $100,000, let alone over $200,000. Where is this place where police wages are so high? I need to let my brother know.
Smokey,
P.S. – I agree with all you say about public sector unions.
Could it be that the bottom 50% are really much better off than the media tends to portray?
With small businesses being so widespread today, personal wealth is sheltered in family owned corporations. Many familes today do not hold assets personally, but in LLC’s. Furthermore, for owners of LLC’s, income is not strictly from wages. Like Buffet, Gore and Jobs, but on a smaller scale individually, many Americans draw a small salary but control much wealth. There are probably enough examples to account for far more than half of the “bottom” 99%.
Kolokol:
More information, please!
I, too, am seeking those looking for “common ground. Are there links or additional information that I can referr to on my web site?
Kolokol [October 13, 2011 at 12:32 pm] says:
“So, what did you think of Zeese’s presentation? And BTW the Oct 11 Group was formed long before OWS, since May, and has done 10 marches in Washington. It was formed explicitly to find common purpose among the so called right and left. You seek to highlight divisions, I seek to find common ground. I guess with such a diverse movement we will both find what we want.
Well, I can show you a video from my own visit to the local action which shows a pretty diverse crowd, an interview with a Paul supporter, and a local “patriot” radio host and other odds and ends: http://mackwhite.blogspot.com/2011/10/psiop-tv-occupy-austin-day-one-video-by.html
Also RT just put up an interview with William Engdahl as well as the interview with Zeese further up thread, which are both pretty interesting, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvc8eg-v2B4 Regarding the uselessness of modern political labels I think Chomsky nails it pretty well here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wriQGI5NGOM And if you want to go back in history a bit I think T. Jefferson had the right idea about corporations (and the Supreme Ct.) here: http://homepage.mac.com/kaaawa/iblog/C2128262602/E20051025182106/index.html Whether this movement goes in the direction I’d like to see, (which is not socialist BTW), I’m cynical and skeptical, but really don’t have a clue and can only hope for the best.
The dot com collapse in 2000 was a long time coming. Who is to blame? Well the bubble was fueled by normal citizens (folks buying stock) and brokers, both with irrational exuberance maybe. But the collapse itself had much to do with the idiotic attacks on Microsoft (who I rarely defend, but must here) and their oh-so-terrible ‘bundling’ of Internet Explorer in Windows(ROTFLMAO!). Janet Reno drove this, and Bill Clinton allowed this farce to go on until that judgement finding them a monopoly in 2000. The market tanked both in anticipation and then in reaction to do this. Smart people got the hell out of dodge in early 2000.
If you were actually involved in these stocks at all, instead of just randomly spouting off today 11 years later, you would know these things because you couldn’t possibly be unaware of what was coming. This was everyday talk on CNBC and elsewhere. It is impossible for me to feel sorry for anyone that stayed in past January or February of 2000. Every day that passed after that without a crash was just pure dumb luck. Those that hung on to eke out a few more minor gains were living on the razor’s edge and they got cut.
No sir, “Capitalist extremist corporations” did NOT “take down the economy: in 2000. You are just making sh!t up here. If you had to blame one thing it would have to be the Attorney General and a bunch of useless lawyers. Janet Reno’s picture should hang right next to Enron’s Ken Lay and ponzi Bernie Madoff.
So, you are absolutely wrong on that first point, and on the second point, the 2008 banking collapse, it is more complicated than you probably understand.
TEA Party is now Establishment Republican? ROTFLMAO! You’re on drugs. Or insane. TEA Party politics (traditional American principles) is hated by ‘Establishment Republicans’ almost as much as by the Democratic Socialists. That’s a fact.
“Tea Party founder backs Occupy Wall Street”. LOL! No-one I know has ever heard of this Denninger person. There are no TEA Party founders and anyone that claims to be is a liar. There are TEA Party event organizers, thousands of them. There are no leaders, and this is exactly as it should be.
You really have no clue about what you are trying to talk about. But I wholeheartedly encourage you to continue, I want the OWS to blossom and get featured on the news every day if possible. Might I suggest more Hammer & Sickle flags.
Blade, I was at early Tea Party events and I watched it get hijacked in short order. Do you even know about the short and sad history of the Tea Party? I used the word establishment Republican because they were instrumental in ESTABLISHING The REPUBLICAN CON-GRESS we have now. Does Scott Brown ring a bell? Personally I think a lot of Republican rank and file glommed on to the early Tea Party because they were too embarrassed to be Republicans after Bush and suddenly turned into constitutionalists and libertarians.
I don’t take drugs, Blade, but I hope you can find time away from your tourette-like LOL ROTFLMAO episodes to adjust your medication.
For the past 30 years, our tax codes have been rigged to take money away from the workers and from the middle class and give it to the richest of the rich. A society which continues to take from the 99% and give to the top 1% cannot survive. As for Al Gore and Bill McKibben, I’m glad that
someone out there cares about our children and grandchildren.
Vigilantfish [October 14, 2011 at 7:29 pm],
The town is Milpitas, California.
President FDR spoke on public employee unions:
“Meticulous attention should be paid to the special relationships and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the government. All Government employees should realize that the process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service. It has its distinct and insurmountable limitations. The very nature and purposes of Government make it impossible for officials to bind the employer … The employer is the whole people, who speak by means of laws enacted by their representatives.
“Particularly, I want to emphasize my conviction that militant tactics have no place in the functions of any organization of government employees. Upon employees in the federal service rests the obligation to serve the whole people … This obligation is paramount … A strike of public employees manifests nothing less than an intent … to prevent or obstruct … Government … Such action, looking toward the paralysis of Government … is unthinkable and intolerable.” [source]
@Blade says: October 15, 2011 at 3:03 am
Blade very poor attempt at misdirect.
The point that Unions did NOT take down Enron, NorTel, WorldCom, 360Networks (and the economy) etc. etc. in 2000 was totally not mentioned by you (they were taken down by gross mismanagement) !! You also failed to mention that none of the Banks that failed in the 2008 collapse were Unionized, so unions are not to blame for America’s economic woes and poor economic recovery !!
So my question is why do so many people blame Unions for economic conditions when it’s big business that regularly takes down the economy ??
It can also be argued that big business influence on government has led to such bad regulations in the banking sector that caused the latest collapse !
@Smokey says: October 14, 2011 at 11:13 am
I do NOT think millionaires can be called middle class !!
Anybody who says the OWS mobs and the TEA party have anything in common is a deluded fool or a liar.
Never heard of the purported TEA party founder who is supposed to be sympathetic to the Occupiers. Who is he? If he’s a founder, how come none of the TEA party people have ever heard of him? Somebody is getting played.
The TEA party rallies are respectful of public and private property. The TEA party members clean up after themselves (and clean themselves, too). Nobody brings dope or drugs to a TEA party rally. The TEA party is not full of antisemites, or 9/11 Truthers. The TEA party believes in American exceptionalism. The Occupiers believe America is worse than everybody else.
The TEA party is not a front for the Republican establishment. The TEA party is fighting with the Republican establishment as much as they are fighting the Democrat establishment. The TEA party is infiltrating the Republican party from the grassroots up.
What is it with you and Blade calling people who disagree with you names? I’m “on drugs” or “a fool or a liar”? You’re so clean,exceptional and respectful, after all.
You know, it can be well argued that the Obama era Tea Party was started by 9-11 Truthers, but you wouldn’t know that, would you? And I’m not about to waste time with you explaining it.
Blade says:
October 14, 2011 at 5:03 am
Steve from Rockwood [October 13, 2011 at 12:24 pm] says:
“This movement is being high-jacked by the left. It started out of the thought that Americans needed their own Arab Spring – a revolution to protest the corruption of government – and it was hatched in Canada. In many ways the Tea Party was such a movement but of the right.”
You say: “Tea Party was such a movement but of the right“! So, our Revolutionary Founding Fathers were right-wing then? Tax-Revolts are right-wing? Limited government is right-wing? I knew the revisionism was running deep, but just how deep was unclear until now.
I’m not sure what you mean here. The Revolutionary Founding Fathers were revolting against taxation and determined to limit government to be under the people, not an authority over them. They were certainly against private bankers taking control of the money supply where out of thin air they created more or less of it to suit their corporate interests.
IIRC, tax only applied to middlemen who didn’t add value to the product, buying goods and selling them on, and not to personal renumeration for one’s labour.
Many of those quotes are not Lincoln’s. They were in a pamphlet that mentioned Lincoln, and got attributed to him.
Snopes:
Earth to Bono, Gore, and other multi-multi-millionaires preaching a non-wealthy lifestyle: GET STUFFED.
—————————
Well said CodeTech.
Please explain this! Give an example or scenario where money is taken from a middle-class person and given to a rich-person.
The real truth is that money is routinely taken from rich people and given directly to poor people.
Your brain has been re-wired to understand everything backwards!
!sdrawkcab gnihtyreve dnatsrednu ot deriw-er neeb sah niarb ruoY
😉
No-one says unions took down the economy by themselves. And it is you that is misdirecting now. You said this:
I replied accurately that what you said is a GROSS mistake. The single most obvious factor was government action by Janet Reno and Bill Clinton (of booming economy fame).
If your intent is to get unions off the hook for current and future events, you are wasting your breath. The next collapse will be from public sector unions siphoning off vast amounts of money from the taxpayers and thanks to political circumstances, much of this is now classified as entitlements.
Where do you think the bulk of the stimulus money wound up? At every level of government from Fed to Local is infested with public sector union viruses where employment is nearly permanent and raises are automatic or demanded at gunpoint. Public sector unions are worse than a cancer.
No-one cares about private sector unions. They are Constitutional as long as freedom of speech and assembly and private property also exist. And as long as they can be fired and ignored as well. Stop changing the subject. And stop blaming the wrong things. You’re not helping.
You specifically mentioned the dot comm bubble bursting and mis-characterized it. I commented specifically on that. Take your axe and grind it elsewhere.
Now I know you are making stuff up. Unlike you I was present for TEA rallies, you are even mis-spelling it. Short sad history? What! It is not a ‘thing’. ‘It’ does not have a shelf life. ‘It’ does not go away. ‘It’ is a grassroots movement for traditional American beliefs and values that are ubiquitous. The rallies are just large public meetings.
Very slippery and no-one believes you. ‘Establishment Republican’ is a well-known term, attempting to re-define it only displays your faulty disjointed thought process, or exposes you as a propagandist for leftist Socialism. Scott Brown was an early favorite because compared to the Ted Kennedy and his attempted replacement, he was the better selection. But now he pretty much sucks. We did get a lot of new members into Congress including the great Allen West. We will get many more next time. We are not going anywhere.
TEA Party represents pure American, Constitutional fidelity and values. It does not go away. And if you think it has, or that it should, you are just making it clear that you are a typical (D) Socialist or Establishment (R). And that’s fine, have fun. But you’re not fooling anyone.
“But now he pretty much sucks.” You want me not to laugh?