Monckton's letter to the journal Remote Sensing

Christopher Monckton writes in email:

I sent the attached commentary to the journal a week back and have not had so much as an acknowledgement. So do feel free to use it.

It is reproduced below. Readers may recall of the editor resignation imbroglio over the journal Remote Sensing publishing Spencer-Braswell 2011 – Anthony

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Commentary

Empirical determination of climate sensitivity

Christopher Monckton of Brenchley

Reliable empirical determination of climate sensitivity is limited by uncertainties in the observations [1] as well as in climate theory. A fortiori, reliable numerical determination of sensitivity by general-circulation models is hindered not only by these uncertainties but also by difficulties inherent in modeling the coupled, non-linear, mathematically-chaotic climate object [2-4]. Of the ten papers [5-14] cited in [1] as attempting to determine climate sensitivity empirically as opposed to numerically, four concur with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change [4] in finding sensitivity high: in [5], for instance, it is suggested that sensitivities >10 K cannot be ruled out. Two of the ten papers [13, 14] are criticisms of [7, 12], implying high sensitivity. The remaining four papers [7, 10-12] argue for low sensitivity: typically ~1 K per CO2 doubling, implying net-negative temperature feedbacks.

In this lively debate, further papers explicitly finding sensitivity low are [15], where an equilibrium sensitivity 1.1 K was determined as the quotient of the relaxation time-constant of the climate system and the heat capacity of the global ocean, found by regression of ocean heat content; [16], which found that sensitivities over various recent and paleoclimatic periods cohere at 1-1.7 K if an amplification of solar forcing owing to cosmic-ray displacement is posited, but not otherwise; [17], where a reanalysis of the NCEP tropospheric humidity data showed significantly negative zonal annual mean specific humidity at all altitudes >850 hPa, implying that the long-term water-vapor feedback is negative and that equilibrium sensitivity is ~1 K; and [18], where the observed rate of decrease in aerosol optical depth, particularly in the United States and Europe, was found to have contributed a strong positive forcing, requiring that canonical equilibrium climate sensitivity be halved to 1-1.8 K.

In [15-18] the sensitivities ~1 K were declared explicitly. However, several papers contain internal, unstated evidence for low climate sensitivity. For instance, [19] displays a flow-diagram for the energy budget of the Earth and its atmosphere, such that incoming and outgoing fluxes are shown to balance at the surface. The diagram shows surface radiation as 390 W m–2, corresponding to a blackbody emission at 288 K, equivalent to today’s mean surface temperature 15 °C. If the surface radiative flux were indeed the blackbody flux of 390 W m–2, then by differentiation of the fundamental equation of radiative transfer the implicit value of the Planck parameter λ0 would be ΔT /ΔF = T/4(F+78+24) = 0.15 K W–1 m2 (after including 78 W m–2 for evapo-transpiration and 24 W m–2 for thermal convection), whereupon, assuming feedbacks summing to the IPCC’s implicit central estimate 2.1 W m–2 K–1, equilibrium climate sensitivity ΔT2x = ΔF2x λ0 (1 – 2.1 λ0)–1 = 3.7(0.15)(1.5) = 0.8 K.

There is a further, and important, indication of low climate sensitivity in [19], where the total radiative forcing from the five principal greenhouse gases (H2O, CO2, CH4, O3, and N2O) in the entire atmosphere is given as 125 W m–2 in clear skies and 86 W m–2 in cloudy skies, giving ~101 W m–2 forcing overall. Holding insolation and albedo constant ad experimentum, the difference between surface temperatures with and without the atmosphere is readily established as 288 – 255 = 33 K, so that, assuming that any other forcings are comparatively insignificant, the climate sensitivity of the whole atmosphere is simply 3.7(33/101) = 1.2 K.

Much has been written [e.g. 34-36] of the discrepancy between modeled and observed rates of warming in the tropical mid-troposphere. The theory of the moist adiabat, supported by the models, holds that there should be 2.5-3 times as much warming in the tropical mid-troposphere as at the surface. However, [20], cited with approval in [4], regards the existence of the tropical mid-troposphere “hot-spot” as a fingerprint of anthropogenic warming. If so, in all but one of the dozen radiosonde and satellite datasets of tropical mid-troposphere temperature, the fingerprint is absent, indicating that the IPCC’s current central estimate of climate sensitivity should be divided by 2.5-3, giving an equilibrium sensitivity ~1 K.

An intriguing discrepancy between modeled and observed rates of evaporation from the surface was reported by [21]. The models predict evaporation ΔE/ΔT = 1-3% per Kelvin of surface warming: observations, however, indicate that the true value is close to 6%. The equilibrium-sensitivity parameter λ is directly determinable from the rate of change in evaporation expressed as a percentage per Kelvin of surface warming, thus: λ = (0.8 ΔE/ΔT)–1. This result, from [22], may be verified by plugging the model-projected 1-3% K–1 into the equation, yielding λ on [0.42, 1.25] and consequently a climate sensitivity on [1.5, 4.5] K, precisely the model-derived values that the IPCC projects. However, the measured 5.7% K–1 indicates λ = 0.22 and equilibrium sensitivity 0.8 K.

It is sometimes said that we are conducting an experiment on the only planet we have. We have been conducting that experiment with increasing vigor for a quarter of a millennium. Some results are by now available. In [23], an assessment of all greenhouse-gas forcings since 1750 was presented. The total is 3.1 W m–2. From this, the net-negative non-greenhouse-gas forcings of 1.1 W m–2 given in [4] are deducted to give a net forcing from all sources of ~2 W m–2 over the period. Warming from 1750-1984 was 0.5 K [24], with another 0.3 K since then [25], making 0.8 K in all, not inconsistent with the 0.9 K indicated in [26-28]. Then the climate sensitivity over the period, long enough for feedbacks to have acted, is (5.35 ln 2)(0.8/2) = 1.5 K, on the assumption that all the warming over the period was anthropogenic. A similar analysis applied to the data since 1950 produces a further sensitivity ~1 K.

More simply still, the most rapid supra-decadal rate of warming since the global instrumental record [24] began was equivalent to 0.16 K/decade. This rate was observed from 1860-1880, 1910-1940, and 1976-2001, since when there has been no warming. There are no statistically-significant differences between the warming rates over these three periods, which between them account for half of the record. On the assumption that in the next nine decades what has been the maximum supra-decadal warming rate becomes the mean rate, climate warming to 2100 will be 1.4 K.

Another simple method is merely to project to 2100 the linear warming rate since 1950, when greenhouse-gas emissions first became significant. This is legitimate, since [4] expects CO2 concentration to rise near-exponentially, but the consequent forcing is logarithmic. In that event, once again the centennial warming will be 1.2 K.

These four sensitivities ~ 1 K derived from the temperature record are of course transient sensitivities: but, since equilibrium will not be reached for 1000-3000 years [29], it is only the transient sensitivity that is policy-relevant. In any event, on the assumption that approaching half of the warming since 1750 may have been natural, equilibrium sensitivities ~1 K are indicated.

Resolution of the startling discrepancy between the low-sensitivity and high-sensitivity cases is of the first importance. The literature contains much explicit and implicit evidence for low as well as high sensitivity, and the observed record of temperature change – to date, at any rate – coheres remarkably with the low-sensitivity findings. Until long enough periods of reliable data are available both to the empiricists and to the modelers, neither group will be able to provide a definitive, widely-accepted interval for climate sensitivity.

Two conclusions follow. First, given the uncertainties in the empirical method and the still greater uncertainties inherent in the numerical method, a theoretical approach should be considered. Climate sensitivity to any forcing is the product of three parameters: the forcing itself, the Planck sensitivity parameter λ0, and the overall feedback gain factor [30]. Though the CO2 forcing cannot be quantified directly by measurement in the laboratory, where it is difficult to simulate non-radiative transports, the current value 5.35 times the logarithm of the proportionate change in CO2 concentration, or 3.7 W m–2 (some 15% below the value in [31]), is generally accepted as likely to be correct. Likewise, the value of λ0 is clear: it is the first differential of the fundamental equation of radiative transfer at the characteristic-emission altitude, where incoming and outgoing radiative fluxes are by definition identical, augmented by ~17% to allow for latitudinal variation.

The central uncertainty in the debate about climate sensitivity, therefore, resides in the value of the last of the three parameters – the overall feedback gain factor G = (1 – λ0 f)–1, where f is the sum of all individual positive and negative feedbacks and g = λ0 f is the closed-loop gain. Process engineers designing electronic circuits customarily constrain g to a maximum value +0.01 to ensure that conditions leading to runaway feedback do not occur. Above 0.01, or at maximum 0.1, there is a danger that defective components, errors in assembly, and the circumstances of use can conspire to cause runaway feedback that damages or even destroys the circuit.

The climate is an object on which feedbacks operate. Yet in the past 750 Ma [32] absolute mean global surface temperature has not varied by more than 8 K, or 3%, either side of the long-run mean. Similar results were separately obtained for the past 65 Ma [33]. It is most unlikely, therefore, that the loop gain g in the climate object exceeds 0.1. However, the IPCC’s interval of climate sensitivities, [2, 6.4] K, implies a loop gain on [0.4, 0.8], an interval so far above 0.1 that runaway feedback would have occurred at some point in the geological record. Yet there is no sign that any such event has ever occurred. Given this significant theoretical constraint on g, equilibrium climate sensitivity cannot in any event exceed 1.2 K.

The second conclusion is related to the first. It is that, in accordance with the fundamental constraint that theory dictates, climate sensitivities attained by a variety of methods appear to cohere at ~1 K per CO2 doubling, not the far higher values offered by the high-sensitivity community. As we have seen, in six papers [11-12, 15-18], climate sensitivity is explicitly stated to be ~1 K; in a further three [19-21], by four distinct methods, implicit sensitivity is found to be ~1 K; by four further methods applied to the recent global temperature record, sensitivity seems to be ~1 K; and the coherence of these results tends to confirm the theoretical argument that the feedback loop gain, and therefore climate sensitivity, cannot be strongly positive, providing a 15th and definitive indication that sensitivity is ~1 K. Since no single method is likely to find favor with all, a coherence of multiple empirical and theoretical methods such as that which has been sketched here may eventually decide the vexed climate-sensitivity question.

Remote Sensing, therefore, was right to publish [12], authored by two of the world’s foremost experts on the design and operation of satellite remote-sensing systems and on the interpretation of the results. The authors stand in a long and respectable tradition of reassessing not only the values of individual temperature feedbacks but of their mutually-amplified aggregate. Their results suggest that temperature feedbacks are somewhat net-negative, implying climate sensitivity ~1 K. In the context of the wider evidence considered in outline here, they may be right.

References

  1. Trenberth, K.E.; Fasullo, J.T.; Abraham, J.P. Issues in Establishing Climate Sensitivity in Recent Studies, Remote Sens. 2011, 3, 2051-2056; doi: 10.3390/rs3092051.
  2. Lorenz, E.N. Deterministic nonperiodic flow, J. Atmos. Sci. 1963, 20, 130-141.
  3. Giorgi, F. Climate Change Prediction, Climatic Change 2005, 73, 239-265; doi: 10.1007/s10584-005-6857-4.
  4. IPCC. Climate Change 2007: the Physical Science Basis. Contribution of Working Group I to the Fourth Assessment Report of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change. [Solomon, S.; Qin, D.; Manning, M.; Chen, Z.,; Marquis, M.; Avery, K.B.; Tignor, M.; Miller, H.L. (eds.)], Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, UK, 2007, §14.2.2.2.
  5. Gregory, J.M.; Ingram, W.J.; Palmer, M.A.; Jones, G.S.; Stott, P.A.; Thorpe, R.B.; Lowe, J.A.; Johns, T.C.; Williams, K.D. A new method for diagnosing radiative forcing and climate sensitivity. Geophys. Res. Lett. 2004, 31, L03205.
  6. Forster, P.M.F.; Gregory, J.M. The climate sensitivity and its components diagnosed from earth radiation budget data. J. Climate 2006, 19, 39-52.
  7. Spencer, R.W.; Braswell, W.D. On the diagnosis of radiative feedback in the presence of unknown radiative forcing. J. Geophys. Res. 2010, 115, D16109.
  8. Murphy, D.M.; Solomon, S.; Portmann, R.W.; Rosenlof, K.H.; Forster, P.M.; Wong, T. An observationally based energy balance for the earth since 1950. J. Geophys. Res. 2009, 114, D17107.
  9. Clement, A.C.; Burgman, R.; Norris, J.R. Observational and model evidence for positive low-level cloud feedback. Science 2009, 325, 460-464.
  10. Lindzen, R.S.; Choi, Y.-S. On the determination of climate feedbacks from erbe data. Geophys. Res. Lett. 2009, 36, L16705.
  11. Lindzen, R.S.; Choi, Y.S. On the observational determination of climate sensitivity and its implications. Asia Pacific J. Atmos. Sci. 2011, 47, 377-390.
  12. Spencer, R.W.; Braswell, W.D. On the misdiagnosis of surface temperature feedbacks from variations in earth’s radiant energy balance. Remote Sens. 2011, 3, 1603-1613.
  13. Dessler, A.E. A determination of the cloud feedback from climate variations over the past decade. Science 2010, 330, 1523-1527.
  14. Dessler, A.E. Cloud variations and the earth’s energy budget. Geophys. Res. Lett. 2011, doi:10.1029/2011GL049236.
  15. Schwartz, S.E. Heat capacity, time constant, and sensitivity of Earth’s climate system. Geophys Res. Lett. 2007.
  16. Shaviv, N. On climate response to changes in the cosmic-ray flux and radiative budget. J. Geophys. Res., 2008, doi:10.1029.
  17. Paltridge, G.; A. Arking; M. Pook. Trends in middle- and upper-level tropospheric humidity from NCEP reanalysis data. Theor. Appl. Climatol. 2009, doi:10.1007/s00704-009-0117-x.
  18. Chylek, P.; U. Lohmann; M. Dubey; M. Mishchenko; R. Kahn; A. Ohmura. Limits on climate sensitivity derived from recent satellite and surface observations. J. Geophys. Res. 2007, 112, D24S04, doi:10.1029/ 2007JD008740.
  19. Kiehl, J.T., & K.E. Trenberth. The Earth’s Radiation Budget. Bull. Am. Meteorol. Soc. 1997, 78, 197-208.
  20. Santer, B.D., et al. Contributions of anthropogenic and natural forcing to recent tropopause height changes. Science 2003, 301, 479–483.
  21. Wentz, F.J.; L. Ricciardulli; K. Hilburn; C. Mears. How much more rain will global warming bring? SciencExpress 2007, 31 May, 1-5, doi:10.1126/ science.1140746.
  22. Lindzen, R.S. Climate v. Climate Alarm, Lecture to the American Chemical Society, 2011 Aug. 28.
  23. Blasing, T.J. Recent greenhouse-gas concentrations), 2011 August; doi: 10.3334/CDIAC/atg.032: http://cdiac.ornl.gov/pns/current_ghg.html.
  24. Hansen, J.; Lacis, A.; Rind A.; Russell, G.; Stone, P.; Fung, I.; Ruedy, R.; Lerner, J. Climate sensitivity: analysis of feedback mechanisms. Meteorological Monographs 1984, 29, 130-163.
  25. HadCRUt3, Monthly global mean surface temperature anomalies, 1850-2011. http://www.cru.uea.ac.uk/cru/data/temperature/hadcrut3gl.txt.
  26. Parker, D.E. et al. Monthly mean Central England temperatures, 1974-1991. Int. J. Climatol., 1992a.
  27. Parker, D.E.; Legg, T.P.; Folland, C.K. A new daily Central England Temperature Series, 1772-1991, Int. J. Climatol. 1992b, 12, 317-342.
  28. Parker, D.E.; Horton, E.B. Uncertainties in the Central England Temperature series 1878-2003 and some improvements to the maximum and minimum series, Int. J. Climatol. 2005, 25, 1173-1188.
  29. Solomon, S.; Plattner, G.-K.; Knutti, R.; Friedlingstein, P.. Irreversible climate change due to carbon dioxide emissions. PNAS 2009, 106:6, 1704-1709, doi:10.1073/pnas.0812721106.
  30. Monckton of Brenchley, C. Climate Sensitivity Reconsidered. Physics and Society 2008, 37:3, 6-19.
  31. IPCC. Climate Change 1995: The Science of Climate Change [Houghton, J.T.; Meira Filho, L.G.; Callander, B.A.; Harris, N.; Kattenberg, A.; Maskell, K. Cambridge University Press, Cambridge, UK, 1996, 572 pp.
  32. Scotese, C.R. How global climate has changed through time. 2002, http://www.scotese.com/climate.htm.
  33. Zachos, J.; Pagani, M.; Sloan, L.; Thomas, E.; Billups, K.. Trends, Rhythms and Aberrations in Global Climate 65 Ma to Present. Science 2001, 292, 686-693.
  34. Douglass, D.H.; Pearson, B.D.; Singer, S.F. Altitude dependence of atmospheric temperature trends: climate models versus observation. Geophys. Res. Lett. 2004, 31, L13208, doi: 10.1029/2004GL020103.
  35. Douglass, D.H.; Christy, J.R.; Pearson, B.D.; Singer, S.F. A comparison of tropical temperature trends with model predictions. Int. J. Climatol. 2007, doi:10.1002/joc.1651.
  36. Santer, B.D.; Thorne, P.W.; Haimberger, L.; Taylor, K.E.; Wigley, T.M.L.; Lanzante, J.R.; Solomon, S.; Free, M.; Gleckler, P.J.; Jones, P.D.; Karl, T.R.; Klein, S.A.; Mears, C.; Nychka, D.; Schmidt, G.A.; Sherwood, S.C.; Wentz, F.J. Consistency of modelled and observed temperature trends in the tropical troposphere. Int. J. Climatol. 2008, doi:1002/joc.1756.

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Joel Shore
September 24, 2011 6:27 pm

Just to cite one example of Monckton’s atrociously poor scholarship: He cites Schwartz 2007 paper claiming a sensitivity of 1.1 C, but none of the comments on this paper or even the reply tp the comments where Schwartz himself revised his best estimate to 1.9 C. I am 99.9% sure that Monckton has been made aware of this revision, which makes one wonder why he is still citing the original work!
Of course, the rest of this screed by Monckton is not any better.
The “climate skeptic” community will not be taken seriously by the scientific community if they continue to exercise a complete lack of skepticism regarding the claims of people like Monckton.
REPLY: Joel actually, lets see the math on how you are “99% sure” of what is inside of another persons head. You won’t be taken seriously when you claim to know the thoughts of others.But your M.O. is well established . Monckton could write a paper on 2+2 and why the sky is blue and you wouldn’t like it. Your bias burns brightly. Why not address his actual work here rather than caterwaul about what he didn’t cite because you “know” what he was thinking. – Anthony

Hooper
September 24, 2011 6:30 pm

[SNIP: Personal insults are unacceptable. If you cannot address Lord Monckton’s comment, then don’t comment. -REP, mod]

September 24, 2011 6:40 pm

Gail Combs says on September 24, 2011 at 4:50 pm

Scott Armstrong has done some other very good studies on research and how it is perceived.
(see: http://marketing.wharton.upenn.edu/people/publications.cfm?id=226&current_flag=0 )

Take note: “marketing” (esp., not engineering).
What we may conclude is that research science (and scientists?) have much more in common with marketing than with something more concrete like engineering (whose output function is to build of make something that works) and engineering analysis (the citing of causes, principles and quantifying the results for decision purposes) …
.

September 24, 2011 6:58 pm

Lazy T says:
“…Christopher’s argument that lack of thermal runaway in the deep past proves low climate sensitivity is a weak argument.”
It is, in fact, a very good argument, which is supported by the null hypothesis. Temperatures have been exceedingly steady over the past couple of centuries, and the current climate is exceptionally benign. The planet continues to emerge from the LIA along the same temperature trend line with no acceleration, and the ≈45% increase in CO2 has had no measurable effect.
There has never been thermal runaway in the past caused by CO2. CO2 levels have been almost twenty times higher in the past than they are now without causing thermal runaway. In fact, rises in CO2 in the geologic past are always the effect of warming, never the cause. The argument that more CO2 emissions will cause thermal runaway [catastrophic runaway global warming; CAGW] is based on a pseudo-scientific belief system.

Editor
September 24, 2011 7:10 pm

Joel Shore says: September 24, 2011 at 6:27 pm
Joel,
It’s plain you don’t much like Lord Monckton, but waving your arms and asserting that the rest of this screed by Monckton is not any better is not really informative or productive. I have no way of evaluating your point re the Schwartz paper and you provided no links or references that would allow me to check and evaluate for myself. All we have is your word and your judgment…. and I don’t recall you ever commenting on the quality of the scholarship of Al Gore.

September 24, 2011 7:14 pm

Gail Combs says on September 24, 2011 at 4:50 pm

My favorite is J. Scott Armstrong (1980), Bafflegab Pays, Psychology Today, 12: http://marketing.wharton.upenn.edu/documents/research/Bafflegab%20Pays.pdf

I’m going to go out on a limb and venture a guess that Gail has never had to ‘sell’ anything, especially anything to a somewhat jaded, biased or otherwise somewhat adversarial crowd/audience (including sometime upper management), hence the obvious need to reword the ‘sales’ pitch into something less offensive or provocative … perhaps with new terms and terminology (that which she would cite as ‘bafflegab’) to ‘soften’ the introduction of new material.
The purpose and utility of the ‘Court Jester’ cannot be undersold here then; it was the Jester’s job quite often to make new, perhaps contrary news or ideas palatable to the king (or audience). See for instance Jester – Political significance (Wiki) and The Court Jester Around the World by Beatrice K. Otto.
To ‘bring it home’, put it into practical terms – the idea is to ‘sell’ the uninterested or opposed individual (or king) into a more reasonable position … such that progress might made, to quote G. B. Shaw:

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.”
– George Bernard Shaw

.

sorepaw
September 24, 2011 7:19 pm

The main fuss, from reading the editor’s resignation letter, seems to be about an accidental case of what Willis E. would call pal review.
Yeah, sure.
How often has a journal editor resigned over accidental pal review?
LazyTeenager obviously knows nothing about peer-reviewed journals and how they work.
The fact that Wagner personally apologized to Trenberth (whose commentary was then published after less than 24 hours for peer review) will tell you much more about his real reasons for resigning than any of LT’s lame speculating ever will.

David
September 24, 2011 8:07 pm

Stop press: “Christopher Monckton agrees that CO2 warms climate”. No won’t happen, you just aren’t _warm_ enough. It’s a good write up, thanks.

TomL
September 24, 2011 8:27 pm

By any standard, it’s a hell of a good literature review. Head and shoulders over anything I’ve seen anyplace else.

Dave Wendt
September 24, 2011 8:42 pm

“Holding insolation and albedo constant ad experimentum, the difference between surface temperatures with and without the atmosphere is readily established as 288 – 255 = 33 K, so that, assuming that any other forcings are comparatively insignificant, the climate sensitivity of the whole atmosphere is simply 3.7(33/101) = 1.2 K.”
Over the years I have routinely encountered various alarmists arguing that my skepticism of CAGW was a “denial” of simple physics and mathematics but, to me, the claims of a climate sensitivity well above 1K are themselves a “denial” of simple arithmetic. As Monckton points out, and I suspect few would argue, the total warming effect of the atmosphere is conventionally assumed to be 33 K. CO2 at its maximum effect is said to provide 25%. Although there is a study that suggests it may be as high as a third in the highest latitudes of Antarctica, other work suggests that globally the percentage is much smaller. For the sake of argument I’ll use the 25% figure. That would indicate that CO2 is responsible for 8.25 K of the 33 K total. By my reckoning, at the present 390 ppm level we are at 8.6 doublings of CO2, which works out to fairly close to 1 K per doubling. If you assume a sensitivity closer to 2 K/dbl CO2 must be responsible for more than 50% of the entire GHE. At 3-5 K/dbl you have to assume not only that H2O and the other components of the atmosphere have absolutely no contribution but at the extreme that the 33 K number itself is an error of underestimation.
I’m aware that most will consider this argument too “simple-minded” but in my experience of climate science “simple-minded” seems to be the dominant paradigm, so I don’t mind taking the chance of appearing foolish by making it. You could respond that the sensitivity/dbl is not a constant number, but that would seem to put a cramp in these efforts to project a sensitivity number from observations, proxies, and of course our lovely models and would certainly suggest that the physics and mathematics are anything but simple.

LazyTeenager
September 24, 2011 8:47 pm

[SNIP: Your insinuations toward another commenter are totally out of line and your comment contributes nothing to the thread. -REP, mod]

LazyTeenager
September 24, 2011 9:11 pm

Smokey says
There has never been thermal runaway in the past caused by CO2. CO2 levels have been almost twenty times higher in the past than they are now without causing thermal runaway
————-
Yes but the original argument is about climate sensitivity. And that argument assumes that a feedback factor that applies here and now will continue to apply with increased temperature without limit. Positive feedback systems can never increase without limit.
In the case of the electronic feedback systems that Christopher uses as an example, the output voltage limit is typically the power supply voltage.
In the case of Venus, the poster child of climate thermal runaway, there must also be a limit. It does not have infinite temperature.
In the case of positive feedback in the other direction, transition to an ice age, the limit is set by the residual CO2 in the atmosphere.
So given some unknown limit on thermal runaway it is not possible to lay claim to a definitive proof of low climate sensitivity here and now, if it is the case some mechanism causes it to reduce at high temperatures.

Brian H
September 24, 2011 9:27 pm

The definition of “normal”, according to a prominent Scandinavian scientist (?? lost the link), in climate science was unfortunately set by the development of meteorology at the low point of the late LIA. That’s a pretty mizzuble “normal” to want to get back to; the warming since then has been benign and beneficial.
Fortunately, not all the UN’s horses and all the IPCC’s men can actually do anything meaningful to change the historical “trend”. But they can torpedo industrial society and super-crash the world’s economy if given control of energy sources. That’s the actual battle being waged.

September 24, 2011 9:42 pm

Smokey says
There has never been thermal runaway in the past caused by CO2. CO2 levels have been almost twenty times higher in the past than they are now without causing thermal runaway
————-
LazyTeenager says:
September 24, 2011 at 9:11 pm
So given some unknown limit on thermal runaway it is not possible to lay claim to a definitive proof of low climate sensitivity here and now, if it is the case some mechanism causes it to reduce at high temperatures.
===================================
You really are LAZY, dude. Not sure why you chose that damning handle but I will let sleeping dogs lie on that one.
Your remarks are complete balderdash.
Regardless, taking your words….it is not possible [EITHER] to lay claim to a proof of high climate sensitivity….blah blah blah.
Keep blithering on…its entertaining. Almost embarrassing.
Chris
Norfolk, VA, USA

September 24, 2011 9:57 pm

Monckton belongs to the subset of climatologists who theorize the existence of a functional relation that maps the logarithm of every increase in the CO2 concentration to the corresponding increase in the equilibrium global surface air temperature. Alternate possibilities are for there to exist: a) no such relation or b) a relation that is not functional. The theory by Monckton and his colleagues of a functional relation fabricates information that is not possessed by them. Also, as the equilibrium temperature is not an observable, the theory of a functional relation is not a scientific theory for it is insusceptible to falsification by the evidence.

thingadonta
September 24, 2011 10:34 pm

Yeah, but it you look at the distant geological past, climate sensitivity to doubled C02 over >10,000 years was not apparently less than about 1.5 C, which means that if you scale it down to less than 100 years it must also be not less than 1.5 C, because all climate processes happen on the same time scales and the same feedbacks will occur over very short time periods as they do for geologically longer ones. This is what the models tell us. Papers will not be accepted unless they address the issue that for periods both over >10,000 years and less than 100 years the climate sensitivity is the same, ie not less than 1.5 C. Time factors are relevent. That is what the models tell us, and unless the facts fit the models, papers will not be accepted.

September 24, 2011 10:44 pm

I remember in the past, the CAGW crowd wouldn’t believe anything unless it was referenced by (or came from) a peer-reviewed paper.
Seems like Monckton listened to them. I’m sure there are a few papers from “unacceptable” authors or journals, but there’s still enough to prove his point.
Using their own papers against them. Love it.

LazyTeenager
September 24, 2011 11:04 pm

savethesharks says
Regardless, taking your words….it is not possible [EITHER] to lay claim to a proof of high climate sensitivity….blah blah blah.
———–
Precisely correct. Given the evidence/argument Christopher put forward, it is not possible to decide whether climate sensitivity is high or low. Which is what I said in the first place. The original argument is not a strong argument. Plausible but no cigar.

Philip Bradley
September 25, 2011 12:07 am

Terry Oldberg,
Monckton isn’t proposing any theory.
He is pointing out the (GHG) Forcing theory, basic physics and empirical observations make much more than 1 K for CO2 doubling unlikely.
Otherwsie your points apply equally to the Forcing model and > 3K rise proponents, as well as the climate models.
The (equilibrium) global surface air temperature is the preferred metric of the warming proponents (IPCC, etc) and will likely continue to be until they can find the missing heat, which will be a long time IMO, as it doesn’t exist.
BTW, you misuse the term ‘subset’. A subset could be any number up 99.x% of climatologists. But then your post reads like it is intended to obfuscate rather than enlighten.

Truthseeker
September 25, 2011 1:42 am

Lazy Teenager – 24 Sep, 9:11pm
There has never been any thermal runaway on Venus either. The following analysis shows that the ambient temperatures of Earth and Venus are a function of air pressure and the distance from the Sun. The CO2 content of the Venusian atmosphere is totally irrelevant.
http://theendofthemystery.blogspot.com/2010/11/venus-no-greenhouse-effect.html

Monckton of Brenchley
September 25, 2011 3:48 am

A troll has written: “Monckton belongs to the subset of climatologists who theorize the existence of a functional relation that maps the logarithm of every increase in the CO2 concentration to the corresponding increase in the equilibrium global surface air temperature. … The theory by Monckton and his colleagues of a functional relation fabricates information that is not possessed by them. Also, as the equilibrium temperature is not an observable, the theory of a functional relation is not a scientific theory for it is insusceptible to falsification by the evidence.”
If the troll were right that surface temperature change is not some function of change in CO2 concentration, then anthropogenic CO2 emissions would not cause “global warming” at all. If the troll were also right that the non-observability of equilibrium surface temperature made the “global warming” theory unfalsifiable, then there would be no basis whatsoever for any of the IPCC’s claims.
The troll has also alleged that I “fabricate” the CO2 forcing function, and it is the use of the word “fabricates” that is the evidence that the troll is a troll. Had the troll read what I had written, he would have seen that the (logarithmic) CO2 forcing function is referenced to Myhre et al. (1998), who established the magnitude of the coefficient in the forcing equation by intercomparison between three climate models. It is the Myhre value for this coefficient that the IPCC (2001, 2007) has adopted as normative, and I used it ad argumentum throughout the commentary.
To verify that the IPCC value is in the right ballpark, I consulted the mathematician who did the earliest detailed work on the CO2 forcing function, by analysis and integration of thousands of separate spectral lines. He was not willling to warrant the IPCC’s coefficient for the forcing equation, but was able to confirm that the relationship between CO2 concentration change and equilibrium surface temperature change is indeed logarithmic (and not, for instance, an exponential-decay function). It is certainly not linear.
Finally, I am not a “climatologist” but a layman with a sufficient background in mathematics and physics to understand the central features of the debate about climate sensitivity.
Joel Shore rightly points out that I had failed to mention Schwartz’s revision of his climate sensitivity to 1.9 K (which is still not much more than half of the IPCC’s central estimate). However, he is wrong to state that I had known of the revision. If I had known of it, I’d have mentioned it.
Thank you all for your interest. – Monckton of Brenchley

Richard111
September 25, 2011 5:30 am

The troll is easily found. Hope he learns to think before he speaks next time.
Excellent lesson for us all.

Joel Shore
September 25, 2011 6:00 am

Robert E Phelan says:

I have no way of evaluating your point re the Schwartz paper and you provided no links or references that would allow me to check and evaluate for myself.

Monckton of Brenchley says:

Joel Shore rightly points out that I had failed to mention Schwartz’s revision of his climate sensitivity to 1.9 K (which is still not much more than half of the IPCC’s central estimate). However, he is wrong to state that I had known of the revision. If I had known of it, I’d have mentioned it.

Okay…I am surprised that you haven’t been made aware of it…but here is the link: http://www.ecd.bnl.gov/pubs/BNL-80226-2008-JA.pdf . The full estimate is 1.9 K +/- 1.0 K. Since the IPCC likely range is 2 – 4.5 K, with the most commonly-cited best estimate of around 3 K, about half of Schwartz’s estimate now overlaps the IPCC range, going just about up to the best estimate. The other half is below the IPCC likely range.
Dave Wendt says:

CO2 at its maximum effect is said to provide 25%. Although there is a study that suggests it may be as high as a third in the highest latitudes of Antarctica, other work suggests that globally the percentage is much smaller. For the sake of argument I’ll use the 25% figure. That would indicate that CO2 is responsible for 8.25 K of the 33 K total. By my reckoning, at the present 390 ppm level we are at 8.6 doublings of CO2, which works out to fairly close to 1 K per doubling. If you assume a sensitivity closer to 2 K/dbl CO2 must be responsible for more than 50% of the entire GHE. At 3-5 K/dbl you have to assume not only that H2O and the other components of the atmosphere have absolutely no contribution but at the extreme that the 33 K number itself is an error of underestimation.
I’m aware that most will consider this argument too “simple-minded” but in my experience of climate science “simple-minded” seems to be the dominant paradigm, so I don’t mind taking the chance of appearing foolish by making it.

It is not just simple-minded…It is so simple-minded that it completely throws all feedbacks out the window! Nobody is claiming that the sensitivity to CO2 is produced solely by the direct radiative effects of CO2. The whole point is that if you take out CO2 from the atmosphere, the resulting cooling causes much of the water vapor to come out also…and also the ice albedo feedback to increase. See http://www.atm.damtp.cam.ac.uk/mcintyre/co2-main-ct-knob-lacis-sci10.pdf
So, yes, if you consider solely the direct radiative effects due to CO2 and ignore all feedbacks, the sensitivity is roughly 1 K. Nobody seriously disputes that.

Russ R.
September 25, 2011 6:24 am

Cross-posted from RC (where it may not survive moderation) but I feel it’s relevant to this discussion:
Russ R. says:
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
25 Sep 2011 at 1:34 AM
gavin re: 3-4 degrees & climate sensitivity:
“This kind of forecast doesn’t depend too much on the models at all – it is mainly related to the climate sensitivity which can be constrained independently of the models (i.e. via paleo-climate data),…
A question on the subject of climate sensitivity, though this probably has come up here at some time in the past.
The consensus seems to be that climate sensitivity is in the vicinity of 3.0 K per doubling of CO2, of which ~1 K is the direct radiative forcing impact of the CO2, and the remainder is the result of feedback effects which act as a multiplier on that original forcing and are the only real area of uncertainty.
What I question is how this 3.0 K value can be applied as a constant across all climactic conditions, when the feedback mechanisms themselves are not constant.
For example, ice-albedo feedback will be much stronger during a glacial period when the leading edge of ice sheets approaches mid-latitudes, than during an interglacial period, such as the present, when ice-sheets have retreated to higher latitudes, where the transitional zone covers less surface area and receives less solar radiation.
Looking to the planet’s past behaviour for guidance, the historical oscillation between two equilibrium states… long glacial periods and relatively shorter interglacial periods (the timing of which appears to be driven by orbital variations) would suggest that net climate feedback is not constant, but is higher in the transitional range (around 2-6 K cooler than present) and lower outside that range (preventing runaway cooling or warming).
Deriving a value for climate sensitivity from one set of conditions (a cooler past) and applying it to different set of conditions (a warmer future) could lead to overestimates of climate response.

Peter Miller
September 25, 2011 6:31 am

The IPCC and the team live in a world which conveniently ignores the following:
1. Increasing cloud cover is now known to be more likely to produce negative feedback for global temperatures. Thus the cornerstone of alarmist scare theories has now been demostrated to be complete BS.
2. Arctic ice cover is probably more likely to be linked to variations in ocean salinity (low by world standards) than to changing temperature.
3. There are natural climate cycles which account for almost everything we see. ‘Climate change’ is natural and has been the norm for hundreds of millions of years – you do not need to appoint government ministers for it.
4. The geological record provides absolutely no evidence to support the IPCC scare predictions on climate temperature.
5. The head of the IPCC runs his own TERI organisation like the head of one of those weird ‘christian’ cults that seem to proliferate in the USA. All expenses paid and living a life of unashamed luxury, paid for by the faithful who continue to pour in the cash.
6. ‘Climate scientists’ are conflicted in their science in that their jobs depend on them generating scare stories which require ever more grant funded research. In normal business and scientific circles if you are conflicted, you ask to be excused.
7. ‘Climate scientists’ pal review process and manipulation of raw data would be totally unacceptable in the world of real science.
8. In a brilliant article a couple of months ago, Anthony demonstrated that the current warming period, during this inter-glacial cycle, is about the average for the 10-12 ones which preceded it – hence today’s warming trend, which ceased around 11 years ago, is quite natural and nothing out of the ordinary.
9. Soot deposits on glaciers now possibly account for more glacial melt than temperature change. Yes, I suppose that is man made AGW.
10. Moncton admits to being : “a layman with a sufficient background in mathematics and physics to understand the central features of the debate about climate sensitivity”. No one from the AGW cult dares debate climate science with him, because they know they would be torn to shreds, hence the standard response of: “It is beneath my dignity to debate scientific matters with a layman.”
My view? A pox on the AGW trolls, bad science and the IPCC, plus a warm “thank you” to Moncton for helping bring sanity into the climate change debate.