ATI Statement on Results from Today’s Hearing in Freedom of Information Act Case Against U. of Virginia
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Friday, September 16, 2011
Contact: Paul Chesser, paul.chesser@atinstitute.org
Today in Prince William County court Judge Gaylord Finch delayed arguments and the scheduled production of documents in American Tradition Institute’s Freedom of Information Act lawsuit against the University of Virginia. A brief hearing was held to discuss a Motion to Intervene in the case by lawyers for former UVA professor Michael Mann, whose records that were created while employed there are what ATI seeks. Judge Finch, recognizing the important precedent-setting potential of the case, said he wanted to schedule a longer hearing — two hours — to hear arguments about whether to allow Dr. Mann, now at Pennsylvania State University, to enter the case.
Judge Finch granted ATI a sur reply in the case, which allows ATI Environmental Law Center director David Schnare to place additional materials before the court as Judge Finch considers whether to allow Dr. Mann to intervene. The two-hour hearing is scheduled for Nov. 1.
Statement by ATI Environmental Law Center director Dr. David Schnare about today’s developments:
“If it wasn’t clear before, it should now be clear to everybody. This is an extremely important case, and we appreciate Judge Finch’s careful attention to detail as we proceed.”
See case documents, press releases, media coverage, commentary, broadcast interviews, etc. pertaining to ATI v. University of Virginia by clicking here: http://bit.ly/mLZLXC
h/t to Bob Ferguson
Jesse,
Sorry to say your reaction is kind of what I expected (but hoped wouldn’t happen): you discard the evidence that doesn’t fit your conclusion. Your only reply to the graph I provided is: “how can we be so sure about the amount of atmospheric C02 back when my childhood idols, Tyrannosaurus Rex and Triceratops, were ruling the Earth?”
And then on top of that you state that, if one questions Mann’s hockey stick, one has to also question all the data about the remote past? Strange reasoning, since the sources of the two (hockey stick & “my” graph) are completely different!
I find it remarkable that you are (rightfully so) skeptic of the graph I linked to, but yet uncritically accept the work of Mann!
The CO2 concentrations (“my” graph) come from multiple lines of evidence. See for instance this paper:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/Geocarb_III-Berner.pdf
More dumbed down description:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html
While Mann’s hockey stick is only based on a couple (literally!) of trees, coupled with VERY dodgy statistical methods. I urge you to read “The hockey stick illusion” (I have copy at home) and/or the link provided above: http://bishophill.squarespace.com/blog/2008/8/11/caspar-and-the-jesus-paper.html
But more importantly, since Mann’s hockey stick graph and “my” graph do not contradict each other at all (!), lets assume they are both correct. Then my question still stands:
Why would high CO2 concentrations and/or high temps be catastrophic for life on earth, if remote history clearly shows much higher values than those deemed catastrophic by the IPPC?
Wijnand,
I am not questioning that there is evidence of some sort that in the remote past, the climate was reasonably hospitable to life when concentrations of atmospheric CO2 were high. All I am saying is that the farther back into the past you go, the dicier are the conclusions that can be drawn from proxy data then available.
You talk about converging lines of independent evidence. We have that for recent times, too, and there are multiple constructions of the hockey stick that produce results very similar to Mann’s.
You ask why high concentrations of CO2 would be catastrophic IF life flourished in such conditions in the remote past. We know too little about the Jurassic period etc. to understand how the atmosphere and climate interacted then; since then, we know that the composition of the atmosphere has changed, continents have drifted, and ocean currents has rearranged themselves.
About the present, we know that changes in climate have occurred rapidly, step by step with the increase in levels of atmospheric CO2. See my posting about Lonnie Thompson above. Consider the year of Katrina — the only year that we know of when four, let along three, hurricanes of the highest intensity occurred. Consider the 2003 heat wave in Europe, or this summer’s record breaking temperatures and wildfires in Texas. Or the record breaking drought in western Australia. And next summer, book a tourist cruise through the Northwest Passage — it’s no longer a navigational tour de force. And tell Cabot and Frobisher and Hudson to eat their hearts out.
Dear Jesse,
Thanks for your response. Tomorrow I leave for France (holiday) until Sunday, so no chance to go online.
I hope I will have some time to respond 2nite, otherwise we’ll meet again some other time.
All the best,
Wijnand
#1 – You do not know which books I have read since I have not stated such.
#2 – I am not in the business of saving souls, I leave that to my Priest.
#3 – Science is not about saving souls, but religion is.
Wijnand,
Bon voyage! I’ve enjoyed corresponding with you — you have challenged by thinking but never my intelligence or intellectual honesty.
But I am, in fact, a troll. I once had my picture taking standing next to the current Miss Universe. (I worked with her mother and she was visiting Mom at the office.) I don’t advise doing this unless you feel VERY good about our appearance.
The reason Mann is fighting this FOIA? He is a covert agent of the CIA’s Center on Climate Change and National Security.