Riots May Have Killed Britain's Green Consensus

Global Warming Policy Foundation

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Newsbytes from Dr. Benny Peiser at the GWPF

 

The riots and their fallout will eat up all the political oxygen for months, if not years to come. A party conference season that should have seen at least some debate on the grave threat posed by climate change and the huge opportunity presented by the low carbon economy will now be dominated by much hand-wringing and political jostling over “the state of modern Britain”. The riots have undoubtedly emboldened those Conservative backbenchers who are at best indifferent to environmental issues and at worst openly hostile to green policies. Significantly, they are supported by a similarly emboldened right-wing media that has in recent months cranked up its opposition to environmental initiatives, most notably through the Daily Mail’s increasingly overt climate scepticism and repeated attacks on green energy policies. —James Murray, Business Green, 15 August 2011

The sun is setting on Evergreen Solar, whose green-energy business fizzled even though Gov. Deval Patrick’s administration showered the Marlboro company with $58 million in subsidies and tax breaks. Evergreen, which made solar-power panels, cut about half of its 133 remaining employees and sought bankruptcy protection after concluding that it couldn’t compete with low-cost Chinese manufacturers. The company had already shifted some work to China last year in a cost-cutting move, then closed its Devens factory in March and eliminated 800 jobs. —Jerry Kronenberg and Greg Turner, Boston Herald, 16 August 2011

 

Solar module manufacturer Solon Corp. will lay off 60 local workers as it shuts down its production facility in Tucson, the company said Monday. Solon, part of German-based Solon SE, said it will seek lower-cost sources of solar modules for utility and commercial photovoltaic systems in Asia. Tucson Sentinel, 15 August 2011

 

Last year, Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn announced the city had won a coveted $20 million federal grant to invest in weatherization. McGinn had joined Vice President Joe Biden in the White House to make it. It came on the eve of Earth Day. It had heady goals: creating 2,000 living-wage jobs in Seattle and retrofitting 2,000 homes in poorer neighborhoods. But more than a year later, Seattle’s numbers are lackluster. As of last week, only three homes had been retrofitted and just 14 new jobs have emerged from the program —Seattle Pi, 16 August 2011

 

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101 thoughts on “Riots May Have Killed Britain's Green Consensus

  1. The Green Lobby group are losing credibility eh? It was a con right from the start, from Al Gore
    his compatriots, James Hansen and Stephen Schelberg and the IPCC. Green energy is a very expensive alternative and if coal fired electricity generators in Australia were updated it would result in 30-40% reductions in carbon emissions and cost millions less than solar farms or useless
    wind turbines who can’t carry the load. I hope Al Gore invested in Evergreen. Also a geo thermal
    exploration plant has been hammered in Australia from lack of funds (and workability). Update the coal generated plants, and for now forget too much investment in clean energy although I feel solar thermal is a thing for the future to invest in.

  2. The thing is nuclear, wind and other clean energy projects have failed to cut carbon emissions.
    So if carbon emissions are not changing the climate as spouted by alarmists, the IPCC and Al Gore and fiends, why put billions for so called scientists to try and prove AGW rather than putting money into saving each countries definite environmental threats. ie., hurricanes, tsumanis, bush fires, floods etc.Sustainable agricultural methodology and animal husbandry and sanitation. Weather kills us. Volcanoes do also.

  3. Even in my area – Queensway/Bayswater, looting was widespread, so it was much more widespread than portrayed in the media – and these riots over a few days left 5 people dead.
    A lot of these looters and rioters have been complaining about their energy bills, as quite a significant part of energy bills go to the government under the guise of climate change levies.

  4. You know, take into account this generation’s odd interest in 70s music, style, and cars (just yesterday I was behind a brand new Mustang, Camaro and Challenger that were all racing), and it makes perfect sense that we’re also going to revisit the all but forgotten Energy Crisis.
    Oh yes, the 70s was loaded with get-rich-quick energy-alternative scammers too. I’m sure everyone old enough to remember can recall the hype with windmills, solar, etc, all the hippy obsessions with getting away from “foreign oil” and living off the grid. It was so horrible, and the crash, when it came, was so definitive, that it’s almost like something we never talk about. Unfortunately, that means another generation failed to learn from the mistake.
    Solar panels and windmills will ALWAYS be linked, in my head, with Disco and sideburns, hairy chests and gold chains, Starsky and Hutch, gas lineups around the block, and lining up around the block to see Star Wars.

  5. and the huge opportunity presented by the low carbon economy
    ==============================================================
    What can you say to this…………………..
    ……….it just says it all

  6. Actually in the British and Canadian Parliamentary systems you live for these days of confusion and chaos…
    While everybody is talking about such stories, you use Ministerial Directives and Orders in Council to carry out the dirty work.
    For example in Ontario… Some Older Directives
    http://www.powerauthority.on.ca/regulatory-affairs/directives-opa-minister-energy-and-infrastructure
    Some Newer Directives
    http://www.powerauthority.on.ca/about-us/directives-opa-minister-energy-and-infrastructure
    For Example: From July 29,2011
    Korean Consortium’s Haldimand Projects – This is further to the Minister’s April 1, 2010 direction to the OPA to negotiate power purchase agreements (PPAs) with Samsung C&T Corporation and Korea Electric Power Corporation (collectively the “Korean Consortium” or “KC”) or the project companies for each of the 5 Phases of the 2,500 MW of wind and solar generation projects that the KC agreed to develop in Ontario. The OPA was also directed to hold in reserve transmission capacity in Haldimand County for the KC or its project companies. Consistent with government objectives to develop economic opportunities for First Nations communities, the Minister has now directed to OPA to enter into PPAs with the KC or its project companies for Phase 1 wind and solar projects in the Haldimand County and, to encourage this, the government has given the Korean Consortium another year to develop an agreement with the Six Nations Elected Council. If no agreement is reached by July 31, 2012 the Korean Consortium may elect between August 1 – 31, 2012, to relocate their Phase 1 projects and to enter into new PPAs. The New PPAs will have a contract capacity of not more than 150 MW for wind and of not more than 100 MW for solar generation at the then current FIT prices, with commercial operation dates of no more than 32 months from the date the PPAs are signed by the OPA and all parties.

  7. Nevertheless the BBC News for the past two days has been featuring the installation of an offshore turbine farm. Whilst there were some alusions to the increase in bills that the governments wind power programme would undoubtedly engender, we were assured by an employee of the installation company that these costs would diminish within the next twenty years.
    The British Brainwashing Corporation can thus be seen to be furthering the will of an inept or corrupt government, which has set it’s face against a growing weight of both scientific and engineering contrarian evidence, whilst at the same time protecting it’s ill advised staff pension fund investments.
    The recent oportunistic outbreaks of criminality by a disaffected underclass on the streets of some of our cities may well have given politicians pause for thought. A harsh winter to come after the enormous escalations in fuel costs that were levied to pay for these ineffective monstrosities will almost certainly result in an uprising that will be less easy to quell.

  8. “As of last week, only three homes had been retrofitted and just 14 new jobs have emerged from the program”
    It took 14 people to weatherize 3 homes? Now there’s efficiency for you. /sarc

  9. These riots had many drivers but poverty was not one. when rioters were seen dressed in designer clothing using the latest mobile phone it is clear that poverty was a background issue. The biggest problem were the police who stood around watching the rioting and looting start. They want to be a service and the peoples friend. Unfortunately they should be a force as they used to be. It is their job to break up riots and if a few rioters get hurt then toug, learn the lesson and don’t riot.
    Some parents are no better than their rioting children,yes many were under 16 years of age, and there were even well paid employed people now arrested for rioting so lack of work is no excuse either.
    I felt disgusted with these yobs. It will take time and a big change in attitude to get things back to what should be.
    I do expect some wooly liberal to blame climate change for the problems, at least that will get a bit of laughter.

  10. As a UK Lefty – although in regrettable circumstances, I welcome the return of the discussion of real social issues to both politics and the mainstream media int he UK . Too long has the ‘Left’ been obsessed with circular and self-defeating green navelguasing – based on assumption rather than evidence. Those of a rightwing persuasion – be aware, however; if the sons and daughters of the ‘left’ who have spent years/£££ conversing/ protesting/ cycling and buying holier than consumables in the name of ‘saving the earth’ transfer this into attacking real problems, like deprivation and inequality – then the right really is in trouble!! I genuinely think the right has more to fear from the overall victory of the sane ahem sorry skeptical on AGM. Indeed somemtimes, in my less rational moments I think the AGM movement was a rightwing invention/conspiracy bacause someone rightwing genius somewhere (mann?) thought (quite rightly): – ‘This is perfect, itll have them being holier than thou for years, they wont talk of anything else or acheve anything -and its pretty much unfalsifiable!!!… (mental image of the Brain saying this to Pinky).
    However, personally I hope ‘increasingly overt climate Scepticism’ is not forwarded onlyby the Daily Mail – as most of the UK population (not just the left like me but most in the middle too) are fully aware of DMs reputation for publishing bulls***t . Friends like these are not required.

  11. Many of the quotes seem down right melancholy about the falling apart of the green agenda. I have a hard time believing any human being with a healthy psyche could possibly be upset over that.

  12. Despite the political implications…
    Imagine what the outcome would have been had the shopkeepers and home owners possessed the tools that were designed to deal with these problems. They could wait around as hapless victims, hoping that the alleged “police” would eventually get off their arse and come to their aid, or they could have retired inside, locked the doors and loaded their Mossberg/Remington/Colt.
    Yes, with that form of society both sides are potentially armed, but there is a lot more thinking that goes through your mind when you consider that your potential victim has a much greater ability to defend themselves.
    As it was, news of the riots subsiding only came about at the same time as the story of shopkeepers and home owners banding together and seeking out some of the perpetrators and beating them senseless once they got them cornered.
    See, a victim isn’t any fun if they can really hurt you.

  13. “The riots have undoubtedly emboldened those Conservative backbenchers who are at best indifferent to environmental issues and at worst openly hostile to green policies.”
    …I guess the rioters must be those Conservative backbenchers, they are the only openly hostile people I see in Britain right now! Good thing ‘global warming’ is the GREATEST threat to the UK, right BBC!? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/3381425.stm

  14. I grow tomatoes. Lots of them. We simply need more CO2. It’s a good thing. Oh, and I eat as much chocolate as the doctor allows – we need more CO2 for cocao as well. Since CO2 is a very, very good thing and you can’t really have enough of it, why even try to use energy sources that don’t increase CO2. Especially those that move jobs to China where all those rare earths are located?
    Solar is good for places like the Alaska ghost town of Iditarod where electricity at any price is a good thing but if your outside (of Alaska), the utlitity company burnig coal is the way to go. They can scrub out all the emissions leaving only the good CO2.

  15. The rioting and outrage over mounting electrical bills and the fallout for the green revolution should begin to shift the the British Broadcorping Castration away from their extreme CAGW moorings, if they realize that their government funding will shrink with the ideological shifts in the “wind”.

  16. The first aricle concludes:
    “Consequently, the riots are not just a grievous blow to British self-confidence and a tragic indictment of our long-term failure to address deep-seated socio-economic failings – they could also represent yet another barrier to the development of a greener economy. An economy, which through the delivery of enhanced stability, greater sustainability, increased employment and improved living standards, would help make the kind of devastating riots we have seen in recent weeks a thing of the past.”
    When the poor are faced with another winter approaching, and can’t afford to heat their homes due to “green” taxes, how can any call it, “enhanced stability, greater sustainability, increased employment and improved living standards?”
    I think they who tax are leeches, sucking the lifeblood of many. The true phrase should be, “enhanced leeching, greater leeching, increased leeching and improved leeching standards.”
    End/Rant

  17. elbapo says:
    August 16, 2011 at 8:32 am
    “Indeed somemtimes, in my less rational moments I think the AGW movement was a rightwing invention/conspiracy bacause someone rightwing genius somewhere (mann?) thought (quite rightly): – ‘This is perfect, itll have them being holier than thou for years, they wont talk of anything else or acheve anything -and its pretty much unfalsifiable!!!”…
    _______________________________________________________________________
    While I never take conspiracy theories seriously, I thoroughly enjoy reading them.
    That was a good one!

  18. Roger @8.17 am 16th August:
    I saw that too; David Shukman and the BBC at their Greenie tricks again. The embodied energy in those turbines is just mind-boggling. What happens at the end of their inefficient lives too?

  19. Friends:
    I notice that some looters interviewed on the radio say they have jobs and could have afforded to buy things they looted. They stole because – they said – they knew they could get away with it.
    In my opinion, there are several contributing factors to this. And the riots are ‘chickens coming home to roost’ following a loss of cultural adhesion in Britain.
    Firstly, discipline has been replaced by obedience.
    Discipline is being constrained by a personal understanding of what is ‘right’.
    Obedience is doing as one is forced to do.
    Good parents impose obedience on the very young: e.g. you will not go near the fire.
    And obedience is imposed by force.
    As a child grows the reasons for the imposed rules are explained by good parents who teach that there are basic rules of conduct which people are expected to apply to themselves: e.g. manners, respect for others, etc. Thus a growing child learns discipline.
    Every society expects its members to be disciplined to follow the ‘rules’ of that society.
    Thus individuals of different societies are an expression of the culture of each society.
    Britain has always contained several cultures (mostly class-based but also ethnically based).
    In recent decades cultural identity has been lost as religious adherence has declined and the so-called ‘classless society’ has been adopted. There has been no replacement for this cultural loss, and this has removed discipline from many of the young who are left with only obedience as a constraint on their behaviour.
    Secondly, and perhaps most importantly, ‘child-centred education’ has been adopted. This has placed primary importance on giving children what they want instead of what they need.
    The rights of the child have become so important that the rights of the teacher have diminished to almost nothing.
    Corporal punishment was abolished without any consideration of what should replace it. This is not to say that corporal punishment should have remained, but removal of the ‘ultimate deterrent’ while not providing a replacement ultimate deterrent was a mistake. Children are now taught that there is little consequence of wrong-doing.
    Indeed, children are taught that there is little risk from their actions. They are not encouraged to climb trees because it risks injury, but that risk is the reason they should climb trees. And playgrounds have soft surfaces so falling down does not graze knees.Indeed, parents of children assume their young will always be kept from harm. (One result is that parents assume their children will be safe when camping in tents in polar bear territory; i.e. an assumption of the impossible).
    Meanwhile children are not now taught that strangers should be met with caution but, instead, are taught that strangers should be feared because they may be paedophiles. In effect, children are taught that people whom they do not know are aliens with whom they have no affinity.
    Thirdly, we have imposed the cult of celebrity. People are admired and rewarded for e.g. having appeared in a TV reality show and not for any kind of achievement. The young are not taught that there are heroes whose achievements are to be emulated: they are taught that people can get fame and riches whether or not those things are earned.
    So, we 9the people of Britain) have raised a generation that is undisciplined, feels no affinity with those whom they do not know, perceives little risk from wrong-doing but sees that ‘right is what you can get away with’, and thinks riches are what you can get for nothing.
    Hence, when the opportunity arises some of them will loot and steal then burn any evidence of what they have done. They do it because that is the culture we have given them.
    They get security in numbers and they almost all have mobile phones which they can use to tell each other where they can next congregate.
    Anyway, that is the view of this grumpy old man.
    Richard

  20. Britain is the most messed up country on the planet – immigrant thieves, rapists, and murderers cannot be deported because that would infringe on their “Human Rights” as ruled by UK judges. Somalian immigrants who never worked a day are housed in $2 million pound homes other immigrant families are living off the taxpayer in high end homes no honest Brit taxpayer can afford – and it just keeps goes on and on and on over there. All those riot bums? What do you expect will happen? A slap in the wrist – entire books of useless words and political promises made by Brit politicians – and all forgotten in a few weeks as usual. And if anyone here is silly enough to think the riots will effect the Green lobby in any way then I got ocean front property to sell you – real CHEAP. Come on! Think about it. We’re talking about the Brits here – entirely ruled by non-elected Europeans from Brussels. And forget about kicking out rioters from council housing or losing welfare payments – otherwise THEIR “Human Rights” will be affected. We’re talking about PC gone insane over there.

  21. Greetings from ireland, after we enjoyed the coldest winter in two generations, we have basked in the coolest June, coolest July and an already bloody cold August. To quote the traditional Irish proverb: “global warming my arse!”

  22. Tamara said at 8:20 am:
    It took 14 people to weatherize 3 homes? Now there’s efficiency for you. /sarc
    Tamara, only one person did the winterizing. Two in-the-field supervisors and one environmental consultant watched to be sure the work was done according to the “standards” as written in the 7,342 page guide produced within the program, that is updated regularly by a document specialist. Then there is the department manager for each of those areas as well as something called the Department of Unforeseen Circumstances and Contingency Planning. Nobody knows exactly what they do, but there is a manager and one person therein. An additional reporting specialist monitors ALL activities that occur as a result of and within the program for compliance to program specifications and creating/reporting back to both the State and Federal agencies overseeing the program. Plus, of course, the required Public Relation – Media Interface and Controlled Communications Department – one person. Add in the Accounting/Facilities Director (who gets paid the really BIG bucks) and the Director over the entire program and you have 14 “new” jobs created and how we are stimulating the economy of Washington via these shovel ready jobs. /sarc /sarc
    Another great example of: If the government is paying for it, it’s not worth it.

  23. “The riots have undoubtedly emboldened those Conservative backbenchers who are at best indifferent to environmental issues and at worst openly hostile to green policies.”
    So, “green policies” are sacroscanct, eh? I equate them to abject stupidity (see cedarhill’s nice description on growing tomatoes above), or reversing decades or even centuries of scientific discovery followed by engineered solutions that provide advances in living when it comes to the production of food, energy, transportation, housing, education, and all the rest.
    So no, the “indifference” mentioned above isn’t really what that author wants you to believe–the “indifference” is a resounding rejection of illogical policies that don’t and can’t advance civilization in general or the quality of life for individual’s in particular (unless they’re making money in some controlling way).
    When will the brainless ever learn? (Or can we hope these riots finally woke up some of the elites that are pushing a selfish, non-sustainable agenda?)

  24. If anyone ever wanted to see the green job explosion, the above is it in a microcosm. Millions thrown at an industry only to send the jobs to China….. Or creates imaginary jobs such as the example in Seattle.
    As to the riots there and the flash mobs here…….. its heart breaking.

  25. If you were a really cynical person you could speculate that the the riots were the best argument required to turn over the nanny state and it’s failed left wing dogma of NGO’s, Quango’s and institutions that tell you how you should live whilst creaming off your taxation for unelected officials that earn more than the Prime Minister.
    You could also speculate that it offers the perfect opportunity to reform the, increasingly independent, Police force making them accountable for their actions with the introduction of elected senior officers that can be ousted without account passing to ministers.
    Another opportunity also arises to introduce laws to remove people from the streets at the whim of local constabularies without applying to the courts first. These new laws will allow officers to remove any concealing clothing from those whom are ‘suspected’ of breaching the peace and also allow localised curfews to be enforced. Perfect to counter rioting but also useful to close down an area around a pub, night club or even barbeque in a back garden, yard, that has got rowdy.
    We might even find that if the cause of the rioting is intentionally directed towards the young, black, organised crime gangs then a multitude of further Conservative pollicies can be brought to the fore whilst turning the country away from the Liberal and Labour ‘caring’ about our dissaffected youth in time for an election ringing with the success of an Olympic year in the capitol.
    Of course you would have to be totally cinical if you were to try and tie all this to single incident in Tottenham that sparked a powder keg in an area that was awaiting an excuse to vent anger, even if the extent of the anger spread further than intended and caught many forces off guard for a couple of nights, what is the phrase coined so often by the American authority……. collateral damage.
    There will be a climate shift in attitude and policy in the UK, some beneficial some not. What will not change is that our freedom will be further erroded and we will be paying for it through our taxation.
    Democracy is the worst form of government, apart from all the others….. Winston Churchill, I believe.

  26. What will happen is all so depressing and predictable…..
    There will be “A Crackdown” as there has been ‘Crackdowns’ before n number of times and n is now tending towards a very large number.
    Crackdowns involve creating yet more ways of criminalising people, making them feel like criminals even when they’re not, restricting liberties and (not least), more ways of taking money off people in the way of fines and taxes. The level of fines have already been decided as I write this, its just the number of new offences that is to be decided as various Government depts fight over how much they think they’re due and how many more staff they’ll need. Government job creation, UK style, at its finest.
    As an example of a previous crackdown, UK truckers tried a similar protest to what the Aussie truckers are now engaging in.
    Result= UK truckers now have they’re licences to trade removed from them the minute they’re deemed to be organising a protest. They are effectively put right out of business and all the while over zealous police will be photographing, checking tachographs, seatbelts, lights and even fining them for smoking whilst in their cabs (not in proper control of the vehicle you see)
    In a nutshell, THAT is what the riots were about – Big Brother is now getting too big.

  27. The economic situation in Europe will stifle any agenda that the IPCC can muster on the CAGW front. The USA will be in no mood to transfer any wealth by carbon trading so long as they are reminded of their government’s debt. As long as it’s AA+, they can’t do anything to “stop the rising seas” or whatever O said.
    it’s effectively over. They could all start saving money by defunding the alarmist research.

  28. Our schools in the USA can’t teach the most basic of morals (no stealing, no cheating, no lying) without being accused of being judgmental, or discriminating. Our children are taught that crime comes from economic and social injustice; many criminal acts are therefore justified and excusable. (That sounds like a judgment, too, btw.)
    Is it any wonder that children who never learned to respect others only think of themselves?

  29. So,the article doesn’t say whether the entire $20 mil was spent on the 3 houses. Anyone know?
    I believe that about $2,000 each was spent on the houses….the rest went in administrative costs.

  30. “Green jobs” aka weatherizing involves handing a drug addicted ex-con a caulk gun to hold while he wanders around casing your house and trying to figure out when you’ll be gone.

  31. I think they who tax are leeches, sucking the lifeblood of many. The true phrase should be, “enhanced leeching, greater leeching, increased leeching and improved leeching standards.”
    Anyone who can be so poetic deserves my thanks!:]

  32. elbapo says:
    August 16, 2011 at 8:32 am
    Those of a rightwing persuasion – be aware, however; if the sons and daughters of the ‘left’ who have spent years/£££ conversing/ protesting/ cycling and buying holier than consumables in the name of ‘saving the earth’ transfer this into attacking real problems, like deprivation and inequality – then the right really is in trouble!!
    [Short version:
    Snap out of it, elbapo, with you it’s only “de ja vu all over again”: you are entranced by mere unhinged verbiage which manages to confuse you while only leading everyone backwards toward Totalitarianism, which then puts nearly everyone “in trouble”!]
    elbapo, as you prove again, the Left’s “thinking” doesn’t ever do anything other than complain about unhinged, purely word fetish/phobias such as “deprivation” and “inequality”! Which provenly ends up again and again in the real world of action – as now demonstrated by Britian’s rioters – with people like you encouraging and justifying the acts of people who destroy everything which creates wealth = ~”the rich conservative shop owners”.
    Whereas, wealth creation, in contrast to wealth appropriation, otherwise involves essentially increasing standards of living through individually created innovations, inventions, and “sweat equity”, along with the availability of reasonably costing energy, if and as based upon the protected freedoms of individual thought and the Liberty of individual actions toward self-betterment – for example, as conceived and implemented by the individuals who created the U.S.’s system of Constitutional Capitalism. It works!
    It works despite your obsession with “inequality” and even because of it: free, productive people simply don’t want to be in their previous state of permanently “equal” wealth or “deprivation”, and they usually want everyone else to improve their own lot, too, as per their protected right and legally assisted and ensured opportunity; and without the Government simply taking it away and giving it to others, such that then no one has any incentive to create wealth!
    In contrast, the abject failure of a Statist or Totalitarian system to create any wealth is something which Communism has proven over and over again, by instead creating the epitome of what it says it is trying to eliminate, the de-evolved Master-Slave society – the very epitome of a classist society. Which strips the wealth off the backs of anyone who has it!
    But when Communism doesn’t work, people like you ~“blame something or someone else” [Milton Freidman’s definition of an economic Communist] such as the “rightwing” or even “the sons and daughers of the ‘left'” – groups somehow imaginarily contrived to constitute the universe of all thinking people, but of course ignoring the rational thought of Classical Liberal individualists – and then only set about to try to do the same thing which didn’t work, again!
    Just as the latte’ Communist Obama examples with his first ‘tranformantional’ and implied ‘revolutionary’ claim that “we are the people we’ve been waiting for”, then, while doing everything he can to attack Constitutional Capitalism, he now calls for more gov’t spending [ = the further looting of America] again, which he just got through proving once again doesn’t increase GDP and employment!
    In other words, elbapo, in your inhinged groundhog day dream system of unhinged verbiage, you once again can only manage to obsess about your own salvation via group salvation, which you’ve just criticized a.k.a. “saving the earth”, via again eventually creating the same old systematic equality of deprivaton and slavery – allegedly in service of ending the same things – which Statists or Communists always ‘create’.
    elbapo, you say, “Too long has the ‘Left’ been obsessed with circular and self-defeating green navelguasing – based on assumption rather than evidence,” then you want to do the same thing all over again!
    Attn., ebalpo, you are being misled by mere words, mere verbiage! You must make sure the words you use mean something in the real world! Otherwise your “thinking” will not work and may even be used to lead you to produce results which are the opposite of what you vaguely conceived in your wishful dreams.
    And the personal “meaning” you apparently want to achieve will be the opposite of what you wanted – you will have completed your own life as nothing more than a “useful idiot”!

  33. Riots May Have Killed Britain’s Green Consensus
    One can only hope that some good can come from the superstitions, destruction, and deaths spawned by AGW ‘science’.
    “When you believe in things that you don’t understand, then you suffer. Superstition ain’t the way!”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDZFf0pm0SE

  34. The “causes” of the riots are both a mystery and source of facile speculation to most of the MSM commentators. Why would the Children of Compassionate Socialism loot and burn? Why can’t their parents (or the police, schools, politicians, the ministry, etc.) “discipline” them?
    Lord Beaverbrook hits the mark, IMHO. The Nanny State promises much but delivers little. Expectations have gradually ratcheted down to “more sacrifice necessary.” The Trodden Classes are no longer fooled, if they ever were. Excessive government, rotten to the core, leads to profound disrespect for all values.
    Great Britain is lost. Increased Socialism/Fascism/Authoritarianism, even in the guise of pseudo-science designed to instill apocalyptic paranoia, won’t cure its ills. Just like they don’t cure the ills of any nation. Never have, never will.

  35. By that I mean that, having begun to instill the values I grew up with, I realise that these now seem at odds with ‘the norm’, which seems to undermine good parenting. I seem to risk being considered a ‘bad parent’ because I encourage ‘dangerous behaviour’.

  36. It’s such hypocricy of British MPs to demand swift and ‘hard’ punishment of ‘rioters’ when they themselves just ‘returned their ill-gotten gains’ for nothing worse than some vocal castigation (recent revelations of British MPs abusing their expenses). We now have Government mandarins accused of using taxpayer-funded credit cards (Government Procurement Cards) to purchase items of a personal nature….. if this isn’t ‘rioting’ by stealth then what is?
    THIS is supposed to be ‘leading by example’???? This is a damn good reason TO riot…….

  37. In EU industries of all kinds are moving to asia. For one single reason, too expensive with all the taxes, fines, and what not the enviro-fundmanetalist communist hippies and other communists has dreamt up to make industries pay to exist or settle in countries in EU.
    Industries in EU pay an enormous amount of money in taxes just for the right to hire and employ people. These people then have to pay numerous taxes for the right to work. The industries also pays all sort of taxes on profit. They have to pay dearly for property. Pre-fines for keeping everything to highest euro-cratic standards of clean and green (not that it seem to be doing much good anyway). The R&D cost alone to keep pushing to meet the eurocrazy safety standards is mind boggling (that cost has to be earned back from somewhere else in the company).
    But for some reason EU has several standards for things like power outlets and rail roads and not even a primary common language, so the cost to adapt and produce eurcrazy supposedly clean, green and safe has to be paid for by, wait for it… no not the industries, no they moved the production to asia, the laid of workers who are now poorer consumers therefor need really cheap asian produced stuff with less safety (conforming to safety standards is a bit different apparently in asia, but since the product is produced outside EU different rules apply).
    It was done for our best, right, the “perfect” welfare system, to save the earth, but still not the stupendous jay walkers who still think they’ll not break their legs crossing the street even though that horrendously expensive to R&D and to conform to the highest of the eurocratic safety and design standards really doesn’t do much to protect hurrying legs from frustrated drivers in rush hour. But hey, the socialist governments are a truly happy, because with the extra money they got from the industries they can afford to put up even more “traffic” cameras (all made in asia of course). But don’t think the safety bumper industry (using only recycled materials, I’m “sure”) is booming in EU, apparently, it is even too expensive for them ( and dealing with petrochemical products in EU…)
    Ironically the service sector was teeming, then enter present day reality not so much since nobody wants to service a bunch of poor folks on the dole who can’t pay for the services. :p
    You have to be truly crazy green to believe you can run a profitable country without “dirty” industries, except into the ground.
    It is no wonder the logistics industries are booming though, because everything is produced and manufactured somewhere else. Only problem though, the green horror now wants to have all the cargo go by train. And they have yet to come up with one single design and safety standard for common power outlets. :()

  38. There’s a long way to go before the British citizenry appreciates the full horror of their predicament.
    Roger says …..
    “the BBC News for the past two days has been featuring the installation of an offshore turbine farm. Whilst there were some alusions to the increase in bills that the governments wind power programme would undoubtedly engender, we were assured by an employee of the installation company that these costs would diminish within the next twenty years.
    The British Brainwashing Corporation can thus be seen to be furthering the will of an inept or corrupt government, which has set it’s face against a growing weight of both scientific and engineering contrarian evidence, whilst at the same time protecting it’s ill advised staff pension fund investments”
    YES,
    BBC’s notoriously unindependent science spokesperson, David Shukman, failed to point out the £150 billion cost of this insane project (including the £50 billion needed for the associated tramsmission and infrastructure costs).
    Nor did he say that economist Professor Dieter Helmen of OU had already informed him earlier that these stupendous figures were totally unaffordable for the UK economy,
    nor did he explain that for our money we would get a system which . . .
    a) will generate electricity at three to four times the cost of power from coal/gas/nuclear
    b) will only generate electricity for 28% of the time
    c) will probably generate NO electricity on the coldest days/nights of winter when conditions are usually anticyclonic
    d) will not allow the decomissioning of a single conventional power station, BUT …
    e) will soon start to cause lengthy power cuts – even nationwide blackouts, as 40% of UK power generators will shortly have to be closed down under farcical EU emission regulations..

  39. “Greenwich said the energy retrofit market has turned out to be extremely complicated, with required hammering out of job standards, hiring practices, wages and how best to measure energy benefits.”
    “Required” by whom? Answer, required by the real job beneficiaries, the bureaucrats who are afraid that someone, somewhere, will get a job without their permission (without paying the bureaucrat for that permission). Required by the government sponsering and bribing union bosses (more bureaucrats) who want their clients, the rank and file union workers, to continue to support them in office and need to squash any competition to their construction union workers by drownding any such competition in regulations. “Required” so much that it takes 14 bureaucrats a year to retrofit 3 houses.
    Plus, they recieved a 14 million grant to retrofit these houses, why are they only offering loans and “incentives” to retrofit these houses? If they recieved “free” government money to retrofit poor peoples houses, why don’t they use all the money to, dare I say it, actually buy the materials and then hire the people to install the stuff for free to those poor people, after all, that is what this money, taken by force from the taxpayers, was earmarked for, right? Or was getting this grant really so that the state bureaucrats could pay for their pension fund? Heck, how much of that 20 million is even left after the bureaucrats have eaten it all?
    Suggestion, charge the 14 bureaucrats with missapropriation of government funds, sieze the money back (all their saleries retroactively), buy the materials, and hire a few people to install it. But that won’t happen, because we now see the real reason the state wanted that 20 million, and it had very little to do with weatherization.
    And we can see why that trillions of dollers supposedly spent to jumpstart the national economy didn’t.

  40. “the riots are not just a grievous blow to British self-confidence and a tragic indictment of our long-term failure to address deep-seated socio-economic failings – they could also represent yet another barrier to the development of a greener economy. An economy, which through the delivery of enhanced stability, greater sustainability, increased employment and improved living standards, would help make the kind of devastating riots we have seen in recent weeks a thing of the past.”
    What bloviating nonsense. The “green economy” does none of those things, and in fact simply impoverishes people, forcing energy prices and/or taxes ever-higher, and lowering employment levels as businesses seek greener pasture$ el$ewhere. In short, it makes riots such as these more likely, not less.
    I don’t know if the green consensus has been killed there, but perhaps mortally wounded. One can only hope.

  41. Gee, if only someone had told the rioters that by burning shops they are producing greenhouse gases and causing climate change; I bet that would have hit them where it hurts.

  42. As a small illustration of how we manage our economy here in the UK,
    we are about to cut our police force by some 16,000 officers to save
    £2.4bn at a time when we have just witnessed some of the worst riots
    in many years.
    At the same time we are going to spend around £100bn
    building windmills, and are increasing our foreign aid from an already
    eye watering £9bn to around £12bn.
    Oh, and by the way, we are already spending more than our income,
    so we are having to borrow every year to fund the excess.
    Makes you proud, doesn’t it?

  43. Adam Gallon says:
    August 16, 2011 at 1:29 pm
    What on earth is “Weatherization”?
    For us it’s getting your house ready for winter.
    Blocking gaps and leaks of air esp. in older homes.
    Mind you good windows and doors also help as much as the caulking and fresh weather stripping.

  44. “The riots have undoubtedly emboldened those Conservative backbenchers who are at best indifferent to environmental issues and at worst openly hostile to green policies.”
    I do not think that many Conservatives MP’s are indifferent to environmental issues, since most of them will have rural constituencies or represent the leafier suburbs. It is the metropolitan socialists who have least regard for the environment, using it only as a tool and a convenient source of political power. They are the ones who introduced the heavy subisidies on wndfarms, which have done so much to despoil the countryside and to antagonise the rurally concerned local population.
    “However, in the shorter to medium-term, anything that pushes green issues down the political agenda or makes green policies fractionally harder to enact can undermine low carbon investor confidence and, as such, damage the prospects of green businesses.”
    No problem with that hitting the prospects for further ‘carbon’ taxes.
    “An economy, which through the delivery of enhanced stability, greater sustainability, increased employment and improved living standards, would help make the kind of devastating riots we have seen in recent weeks a thing of the past.”
    if the ‘green agenda’ is fulfilled for the UK, the above can be rightly paraphrased as: “An economy, which through the delivery of reduced energy supply stability, restricted growth, reduced employment and falling living standards, would help make the kind of devastating riots we have seen in recent weeks much more likley.”

  45. Richard S Courtney says:
    August 16, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Richard, I have to agree with you. That is a very good summary, and the results are the main reason I decided to leave England for good. I also felt for a long time that the ‘single welfare mother’ syndrome that grew in the 80’s and 90’s is greatly to blame for the current situation. Those children grew up being taught that they had no responsibilities (their fathers never did), the state would pay for everything (as their mothers proved), and you did not need to work if you didn’t want to (as both parents proved, generally). The result is ugly. Quite frankly I was not terribly surprised at what happened in London and other places in England, except by the ferocity. Looting is one thing, but the wide path of mindless destruction was reminiscent of a Philip K Dick nihilistic Sci-Fi cyberpunk future.
    Not a country I will miss.

  46. Verity Jones says:
    August 16, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    By that I mean that, having begun to instill the values I grew up with, I realise that these now seem at odds with ‘the norm’, which seems to undermine good parenting. I seem to risk being considered a ‘bad parent’ because I encourage ‘dangerous behaviour’.

    Heh! I am known in our neighbourhood as the most irresponsible parent of the area. I actually let our children make their own mistakes, but give them enough advice that they know how to make good decisions (most of the time). They are generally very responsible, seemingly in contradiction.
    We learn by making mistakes, not by being prevented from making them!

  47. One of the biggest problems that the UK now faces is the realisation that all the years of discussion, that intelligent educated people have tried to advocate and inform public organisations as to the needs and problems of those that they represent ,who are deemed not capable of representing themselves, failed.
    What has succeeded in changing the stance of the nation is four nights of violence by those very people who have now represented themselves.
    What course of action do they take next if their cause is overtaken by the political class using the moment to persue political needs rather than solving the problems of society that cost money, time and effort.
    Public service cuts are neccessary, Police cuts are neccessary, a lot of funding cuts are needed to overturn the amount of debt that the country has but how do you explain that to the people who have seen years and years of government money being soaked up by the very organisations that should of been helping them.

  48. “An economy, which through the delivery of enhanced stability, greater sustainability, increased employment and improved living standards, would help make the kind of devastating riots we have seen in recent weeks a thing of the past.”
    Just the things that the green agenda is sucking out of societies. Riots will be the green legacy.

  49. elbapo says:
    August 16, 2011 at 8:32 am
    As a UK Lefty … in my less rational moments I think the AGM movement was a rightwing invention/conspiracy bacause someone rightwing genius somewhere (mann?) thought (quite rightly): …blah, blah…

    And when do you experience your more rational moments?

  50. Odd that the British police can use kettling tactics and provocateurs to turn peaceful, legitimate, demonstrations into riots, but can’t stop real riots.
    Odd that people are condemned and prosecuted for looting shops (they should be, of course), but banking bosses can cause financial disasters and then loot the public purse to give themselves giant bonuses without being called to account for it.
    Tony Blair gets away with war crimes, police get away with murder.
    “Not my fault” and “Grab it while you can” run all the way through modern British society. But then, Margaret Thatcher (one of the forces behind the AGW scam) said society didn’t exist.
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100100708/the-moral-decay-of-our-society-is-as-bad-at-the-top-as-the-bottom/

  51. reply to: cedarhill says: August 16, 2011 at 8:58 am

    I grow tomatoes. Lots of them. We simply need more CO2. It’s a good thing. Oh, and I eat as much chocolate as the doctor allows – we need more CO2 for cocao as well.

    and coffee beans too, cedarhill, can’t oh please don’t forget the coffee beans! (send some tomatoes my way, would ya? {G} ). The three major food groups necessary for life: chocolate, coffee, and more chocolate.

  52. reply to: Caleb says: August 16, 2011 at 9:30 am

    The first aricle concludes: “Consequently, the riots are not just a grievous blow to British self-confidence and a tragic indictment of our long-term failure to address deep-seated socio-economic failings – they could also represent yet another barrier to the development of a greener economy. An economy, which through the delivery of enhanced stability, greater sustainability, increased employment and improved living standards, would help make the kind of devastating riots we have seen in recent weeks a thing of the past.”

    Can you all say “Hello Orwell” boys and girls? There, see, I knew you could! (h/t Mr. Rogers)
    I can’t ever decide if folks who say these sorts of things, flying in the face of all the failed examples and dismal facts, really believe what they are saying or if they could care less and it’s strictly a means to an end for them. Hard to say which would be the more horrifying answer either.

  53. reply to: Richard S Courtney says: August 16, 2011 at 9:41 am
    Very well said Richard! If you will allow, I’d suggest one small addition perhaps:

    As a child grows the reasons for the imposed rules are explained by good parents who teach that there are basic rules of conduct which people are expected to apply to themselves: e.g. manners, respect for others, etc. Thus a growing child learns discipline, and over time how those rules of conduct are the oil that keeps the wheel’s of civilization turning, not only making the world a better place for others, but for himself as well – thus supplementing discipline with reason and wisdom.

    Unfortunately here in the USA we are far down the same road you describe, and it’s not painting a pretty picture of what the future is likely to be, I’m afraid.

  54. reply to post: Milwaukee Bob says: August 16, 2011 at 10:02 am
    ROFL!! As I read your post, I couldn’t help but wonder how you’d managed to gets the facts of the situation, all with the niggling thought that if you were off the cuff you were doing a darned good job of it, right until I got to the /sarc and then knew… have to say tho that you’re probably far closer to reality than any of us would like to think!

  55. A large number of world problems link to the UN. The Government-Created Subprime Mortgage Meltdowns come to mind also. That probably resulted from UN pressure on governments who in turn pressured the banks.

  56. reply to: Nuke says: August 16, 2011 at 11:50 am

    Our schools in the USA can’t teach the most basic of morals (no stealing, no cheating, no lying) without being accused of being judgmental, or discriminating. Our children are taught that crime comes from economic and social injustice; many criminal acts are therefore justified and excusable. (That sounds like a judgment, too, btw.)
    Is it any wonder that children who never learned to respect others only think of themselves?

    I couldn’t agree more. And they can apparently teach that America as a nation = bad murdering oppressors throughout history, without also teaching about all the good she has done, or how our wicked historical actions actually fit in perspective with other nation’s similar or worse acts. Right along with sexual education starting in kindergarden – and I’m not referring to biology of reproduction either..

  57. Replying to: Jer0me says: August 16, 2011 at 4:01 pm

    Richard S Courtney says: August 16, 2011 at 9:41 am

    Richard, I have to agree with you. That is a very good summary, and the results are the main reason I decided to leave England for good……Not a country I will miss.

    When I play the ‘what if’ mind game, the problem I have is where would one go that isn’t already halfway – or more – down the very same path? What country isn’t heavily into nanny state, massive taxation, and increasingly dissappearing civil liberties?

  58. ‘This is the logical dead end of the Nanny State. When William Beveridge laid out his blueprint for the British welfare regime in 1942, his goal was the “abolition of want” to be accomplished by “co-operation between the State and the individual.” In attempting to insulate the citizenry from life’s vicissitudes, Sir William succeeded beyond his wildest dreams. As I write in my book: “Want has been all but abolished. Today, fewer and fewer Britons want to work, want to marry, want to raise children, want to lead a life of any purpose or dignity.” The United Kingdom has the highest drug use in Europe, the highest incidence of sexually transmitted disease, the highest number of single mothers, the highest abortion rate. Marriage is all but defunct, except for William and Kate, fellow toffs, upscale gays, and Muslims. From page 204:
    “For Americans, the quickest way to understand modern Britain is to look at what LBJ’s Great Society did to the black family and imagine it applied to the general population”. ‘
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1596981008/ref=nosim/nationalreviewon
    http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/274492/new-britannia-mark-steyn?page=1#
    Can’t argue with that!

  59. elbapo says:
    August 16, 2011 at 8:32 am
    As a UK Lefty – although in regrettable circumstances, I welcome the return of the discussion of real social issues to both politics and the mainstream media int he UK . Too long has the ‘Left’ been obsessed with circular and self-defeating green navelguasing(sic) – based on assumption rather than evidence. Those of a rightwing persuasion – be aware, however; if the sons and daughters of the ‘left’ who have spent years/£££ conversing/ protesting/ cycling and buying holier than consumables in the name of ‘saving the earth’ transfer this into attacking real problems, like deprivation and inequality

    etc., etc.
    When the source of their £££ — OPM — runs dry (see EU and Euro collapse, and the Merkel-Sarkozy EU national balanced budget constitutional amendment proposal, etc.) then the Left just digs deeper, and begins rioting and looting.
    Yeah, that’ll work!

  60. Welcome, Mark! Is Lord Beaverbrook just your webtag du jour, or can we expect more self-guided ordinance from that persona?

  61. Friends:
    I write to thank the several who have supported my analysis of the present problems of British culture (that I summarised at August 16, 2011 at 9:41 am). Your comments give me confidence that my view has some degree of merit.
    I write to make two points that arise from the discussion.
    Firstly, these issues of cultural identity and loss are about the forces that induce cultural cohesion. In other words, they are about the ‘glue’ which holds any society together. Hence, they are independent of political view and philosophy.
    This independence from political philosophy is supported by the fact that several ‘right wing’ commentators have stated agreement with my post at August 16, 2011 at 9:41 am, and I am a left-wing socialist of the old-fahioned British kind.
    Diversity and mutually respectful conflict of political views prevent the stagnation of unifomity and provide developments in society. But any society requires adoption of the fundamental principles for developing its young that my post considered.
    And that brings us to my second point.
    Replacement of political debate by an over-riding so-called ‘moral’ imperative destroys any society. There are several such impositions that I see have had varying degrees of ‘success’ with resulting harm.
    One major such imposition is ‘green’ philosophy. This is independent of political philosophy (despite the claims of some Americans).
    Here, in the UK, all the major political parties have adopted it. Indeed, Margaret Thatcher (of the right) created the AGW-scare as a political ploy to obtain personal credibility; see
    http://www.john-daly.com/history.htm
    Since then, some of the left have tried to claim she promoted the scare as a method to attack the miners (which was NOT her reason) because that enables them to assert the AGW-scare is really part of their left-wing politics.
    In fact, ‘green’ is a philosphical view that stands apart from politics but attempts to impose its view on everything including politics. This is similar to some atypical religious views whereby the believers in that religion attempt to impose their philosophy upon everything including politics. Results of imposing such philosophies on politics have been dire. In the case of ‘green’ philosophy we have the example of the Khmer Rouge.
    Another such imposition is ‘political correctness’. This is an attempt to prevent discussion of issues by defining those issues as being improper to discuss. And it is a varient of the Orwellian concept of ‘Newspeak’. When successful this imposition prevents any objection and/or dispute of the actions conducted by those who have defined what is – and is not – politically correct.
    Anyway, I suppose people could expect a Methodist Preacher such as myself to be saying such things, so I will stop before prompting accusations that I am being overly pious.
    Richard

  62. Brian H, as you can see by my comment:Can’t argue with that!
    It would indicate that I wasn’t the one who wrote the passage and so am not Mark Steyn, in fact this is the first time that I have heard of him.
    The links were added for refference for the text posted, purely to establish that the statement is somebody elses not my own even though I agree with the argument behind the text

  63. malcolm says: August 17, 2011 at 2:15 am:
    Mine is certainly not a joke, but I’m not sure about the other one…
    However, that last time I checked, my petition had got 64 signatures (top score so far at DECC) and the other one only 2.
    Only 99,936 to go for a debate in Parliament – wouldn’t you love to see that!

  64. “Here, in the UK, all the major political parties have adopted it. Indeed, Margaret Thatcher (of the right) created the AGW-scare as a political ploy to obtain personal credibility;”
    I thought that this myth had been scotched many times before. Margaret Thatcher approved funding for the investigation of CO2 levels and atmospheric temperatures, based on information given to her by her scientific advisers. She, as a scientist, was assured that this would be performed with due regard to the usual scientific methods and that there were no preconceived outcomes
    However, we now know this was not the case, and her main scientific adviser turned out to be a warmist.
    She later completely regretted the decision to fund the work and she also disowned the whole AGW meme.

  65. Edward Bancroft:
    re. your comment at August 17, 2011 at 10:44 am.
    There is no “myth” concerning the fact that Margaret Thatcher originated the AGW-scare: she did.
    Please read my account at http://www.john-daly.com/history.htm
    That account was extracted from a report I provided in 1981 as a result of research I conducted in 1980 (i.e. before the AGW-scare took-off) and it predicted the AGW-scare would occur and would displace all other environmental issues whether or not any evidence to support AGW were to be obtained. The clients for that report rejected it because they considered its prediction to be “fanciful” and “implausible”. But, since then AGW has displaced all other environmental issues but has yet to obtain any supporting evidence.
    Nearly two decades later, in the late 1990s, the late John Daley asked me to post on his web site the pertinent part of the analysis together with some updated relevant information. The article at the link is that post.
    Also, Lord Monckton of Blenchley (a strong AGW skeptic) was a political advisor to Mrs Thatcher when she was UK Prime Minister and he agrees she started the scare, but he says she later “changed her mind” about the matter. Search WUWT for a thread where he puts his views on the subject.
    AGW has become a polarised political issue in the USA (n.b. this political polarisation is unique to the USA) and some right-wing American politicians have attempted to dispute the documented fact that Margaret Thatcher started the scare. My article at the link explains why she started it. Many (including me) suspect she came to regret what resulted from that, but there is no possibility of rational disute that she did start the AGW-scare.
    And none of that has any affect on the substantive points in my two posts above.
    Richard

  66. Richard S Courtney: “Many (including me) suspect she came to regret what resulted from that, but there is no possibility of rational disute that she did start the AGW-scare.”
    She instigated research in the topic, but nowhere is it claimed that she wanted to frighten the public into taking action which was not otherwise justified. As a scientist she was aware that there might be some validity in the AGW-CO2 proposition and that it was worthwhile to investigate the topic further.
    The politician most responsible for the AGW scary stories was Al Gore. Compare Mrs. Thatcher’s analytical approach with that of the unrelenting near-hysterical whipping up of the fear from Gore.
    For some further reading on Margaret Thatcher and the AGW topic, see the WUWT article:
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/06/14/was-margaret-thatcher-the-first-climate-sceptic/
    In a post in the article, I allude to another frequently (mis-)quoted Margaret Thatcher myth.
    Also see Christopher Booker’s Telegraph article:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/christopherbooker/7823477/Was-Margaret-Thatcher-the-first-climate-sceptic.html
    Edward

  67. Edward Bancroft:
    You are entitled to believe whatever you want, but your belief does not alter the truth and the facts.
    It is simply not true that Al Gore initiated the AGW-scare except, possibly, in the US because the AGW-scare was raging in Europe before his involvement in the issue.
    An article in the Daily Telegraph proves nothing, and Christopher Booker tells me that he cites my account in his book on the matter, so I don’t think your links indicate anything.
    Much more informative is the account of the matter and the resulting thread on WUWT at
    http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/06/16/margaret-thatcher-the-world%e2%80%99s-first-climate-realist/
    Please read Lord Monkton’s account as the article at the head of that link, then read the associated thread taking especial note of my posts at June 17, 2010 at 11:14 am and June 18, 2010 at 6:58 am and the summarising post by Lucy Skywalker at June 18, 2010 at 5:16 pm.
    But so what? None of this has any relevance to my substantive points in my first two posts above.
    Richard

  68. I was listening to BBC Radio 5 Live coming home from work in my CO2 producing machine when they had a piece on the new Enterprise Zones the Government has set up. They then proceeded to have an interview with some person promoting the Humberside Enterprise Zone on the Yorkshire coast. Firstly the interviewer asked what kind of companies were they hoping to attract to the Zone. Back came the reply “Renewables Companies”. Then the next question was “Are those renewables companies likely to be British or Foreign owned?”. Back came the reply “almost all wind companies are foreign”. So, I think, its wind energy companies then.
    At that point I was banging my head on the steering wheel. So now we have foreign companies moving into a low business tax zone, working in a market sector that only survives on heavy government subsidy and artificially inflates energy prices for citizens and other businesses, then taking the taxpayer supported profits abroad.
    Has anybody heard anything more stupid? The UK Government are providing tax breaks for companies so that they can milk the British tax payer amd economy more efficiently for the further enrichment of foreign investors.
    How did Britain become this thick?

  69. Riots: I saw one woman yell ‘We’re getting back our taxes?’ As far as the BBC is concerned
    much like our ABC owned by the government. And from what I believe the BBC has invested a large portion of their superannuation scheme in carbon trading?
    And interesting report on http://www.joannenova.com.au. It is cheaper to update our present coal fired generators than installing more expensive systems, that only work part of the time.
    I’m sorry to hear about the riots in England. And the deaths as the result, quite unnecessary.
    Evergreen one of the biggest world solar panel manufacturers has gone bankrupt. Seems they moved to China to cut costs and lost 800 jobs as a result in America. Now their state government is demanding the return of some of the tax benefits and subsidies they received a total of 58 million dollars. And Australia is still following this green energy crusade. What fools do we have
    running this country.

  70. Think of all the oxygen the agonizing collapsing of this CO2 bubble is sucking out of any recovery for housing or bonds worldwide.
    ===================

  71. kim says August 17 at 10.57 pm. They were conned and now haven’t the grace to say so.
    After all the millions possibly billions paid to those who want to capitalize on this AGW hoax, and the state of economies they can’t afford to make green energy one of their hopes for a cleaner future. Remember the 18th century South Sea Bubble, the then PM of England got out while to going was good, but millions lost their money. With Evergreen going to Asia was a big mistake. They are trying to now blame the Chinese for their failure to compete. Rather than their mismanagement and part in this carbon bubble. I wonder if the same will happen with wind turbines?

  72. Over in the sidebar’s “Recent Comments” list, the title of this post is auto-abbreviated to “Riots May Have Killed Britain…”
    Ah, such accidental prophetic irony.

  73. Rational Debate re cedarhill and the need for CO2 for coffee and cocoa beans – reminds me that the only thing which has the four necessities of life is Irish coffee – caffeine; sugar; alcohol and fat….
    Anyway – slightly off-topic, but relevant – the Cambridge Evening News (here in the UK) recently reported that two electric car charging points in town centre car parks have been used a total of… how many times in the past year..?
    Three….
    Cost to install – £17000…
    A bargain, and good use of tax-payers’ money, you have to admit…

  74. Don’t judge anyone by the riots, any time there is a protest or large demonstration, there are mysterious agitators who are running the show and busting things up, in order to discredit the veritable protestors and allow the authorities to come in and use a heavy hand to bust the protest. I’ve seen it first hand.

  75. The whole point of the green bandwagon was to redistribute wealth and give beurocrats a direct tax and control over the entire economy. It required huge amounts of money to keep enough people on board. The money is now running out. Hopefully political correctness is going to go the same way and society can once again look at problems as they are rather than as some people would like them to be.

  76. Richard S Courtney: “It is simply not true that Al Gore initiated the AGW-scare except, possibly, in the US because the AGW-scare was raging in Europe before his involvement in the issue.”
    It was never said that Gore initiated the AGW-scare, just that he was by far the politician assiduously promoting it the most.
    “An article in the Daily Telegraph proves nothing, ”
    Just as your posts prove nothing.

  77. Edward Bancroft:
    If you have something substantive and/or useful to say then please do. If all you want to do is provide insults then I suggest there are more appropriate blogs for you to join than WUWT.
    Richard

  78. Richard S Courtney
    You made the unsubstantiated assertion that Margaret Thatcher ‘started the AGW scare”. As far as I am aware she only provided authorisation for funding research into the topic, which is most certainly not the same thing as deliberately stoking fear in order to pursue some other agenda. How is that statement an insult?
    Edward

  79. Edward Bancroft:
    I am now convinced you are a troll attempting to deflect this thread onto your nonsense.
    Margaret Thatcher started the AGW scare. I watched her do it, and I predicted the result before the scare she was then initiating had occured. Chris Monckton was her advisor, chosen and appointed by her, and he says he was there when she changed her mind from AGW advocacy to AGW skepticism. I gave you a link to Chris Monckton saying that, and the link includes several, referenced direct quotes from Margaret Thatcher which are clear and unequivocal AGW advocacy.
    Those are the facts. But you don’t want to believe them. Believe what you like, but DO NOT use your belief (whether real or faux) to side-track this thread.
    Your response to my presenting those facts was
    1.
    to pretend you had not said;
    “The politician most responsible for the AGW scary stories was Al Gore. Compare Mrs. Thatcher’s analytical approach with that of the unrelenting near-hysterical whipping up of the fear from Gore”,
    and 2.
    to assert that my posts “prove nothing” and are akin to a political article in the Daily Telegraph.
    Do your trolling somewhere else. I will ignore any further attempts at distraction from you.
    Richard

  80. NO SUCH LUCK. The BBC was interspersing reports of the riot’s aftermath with scenes of the fabrication of the HUGE windmills that are being built for deployment in the North Sea.
    The Riots will be used to justify more social controls, like powers to monitor, censor or even shut down parts of the Internet, social media & communications networks – as actually happened in the London Underground, yet more surveillance cameras & banning face covering in public.

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