New paper from Lindzen and Choi implies that the models are exaggerating climate sensitivity.

Fig. 11. Sensitivity vs. feedback factor.

Dr. Richard Lindzen writes to me with news of this significant new paper saying “It has taken almost 2 years to get this out. “.  Part of that problem appears to be hostile reviewers in earlier submissions to JGR, something we’ve seen recently with other skeptical papers, such as O’Donnell’s rebuttal to Steig et al (Antarctica is warming) where Steig himself inappropriately served as a reviewer, and a hostile one at that.

Hostile reviewers aside, the paper will now be published in an upcoming issue of the Asia-Pacific Journal of Atmospheric Sciences and I am honored to be able to be able to present it here. The authors state that:

“We have corrected the approach of Lindzen and Choi (2009), based on all the criticisms made of the earlier work (Chung et al., 2010; Murphy, 2010; Trenberth et al., 2010).”

The present paper responds to the criticism, and corrects the earlier approach where appropriate. The earlier results are not significantly altered, and we show why these results differ from what others like Trenberth et al. (2010), and Dessler (2010) obtain.

So, while that may satisfy some critics, given the hostility shown to the idea that there is a low sensitivity to forcings, I’m sure a whole new crop of critics will spring up for this paper. The response to this paper in AGW proponent circles, like the feedback posited for Earth’s climate system, will surely be negative. Let the games begin.

Some highlights:

However, warming from a doubling of CO2 would only be about 1°C (based on simple calculations where the radiation altitude and the Planck temperature depend on wavelength in accordance with the attenuation coefficients of wellmixed CO2 molecules; a doubling of any concentration in ppmv produces the same warming because of the logarithmic dependence of CO2’s absorption on the amount of CO2) (IPCC, 2007).

This modest warming is much less than current climate models suggest for a doubling of CO2. Models predict warming of from 1.5°C to 5°C and even more for a doubling of CO2

As a result, the climate sensitivity for a doubling of CO2 is estimated to be 0.7 K (with the confidence interval 0.5K – 1.3 K at 99% levels). This observational result shows that model sensitivities indicated by the IPCC AR4 are likely greater than than the possibilities estimated from the observations.

Our analysis of the data only demands relative instrumental stability over short periods, and is largely independent of long term drift.

Willis Eschenbach will no doubt find some interesting things in this paper, as it speaks of some of the same regulation mechanisms in the tropics as Willis has opined on here at WUWT. Here’s the Abstract and Conclusion, a link to the full paper follows:

==============================================================

On the Observational Determination of Climate Sensitivity and Its Implications

Richard S. Lindzen1  and Yong-Sang Choi2

1Program in Atmospheres, Oceans, and Climate, Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Cambridge, U. S. A.

2Department of Environmental Science and Engineering, Ewha Womans University, Seoul, Korea

Asia-Pacific J. Atmos. Sci., 47(4), 377-390, 2011 DOI:10.1007/s13143-011-0023-x

Abstract:

We estimate climate sensitivity from observations, using the deseasonalized fluctuations in sea surface temperatures (SSTs) and the concurrent fluctuations in the top-of-atmosphere (TOA) outgoing radiation from the ERBE (1985-1999) and CERES (2000-2008) satellite instruments. Distinct periods of warming and cooling in the SSTs were used to evaluate feedbacks. An earlier study (Lindzen and Choi, 2009) was subject to significant criticisms. The present paper is an expansion of the earlier paper where the various criticisms are taken into account. The present analysis accounts for the 72 day precession period for the ERBE satellite in a more appropriate manner than in the earlier paper. We develop a method to distinguish noise in the outgoing radiation as well as radiation changes that are forcing SST changes from those radiation changes that constitute feedbacks to changes in SST. We demonstrate that our new method does moderately well in distinguishing positive from negative feedbacks and in quantifying negative feedbacks. In contrast, we show that simple regression methods used by several existing papers generally exaggerate positive feedbacks and even show positive feedbacks when actual feedbacks are negative. We argue that feedbacks are largely concentrated in the tropics, and the tropical feedbacks can be adjusted to account for their impact on the globe as a whole. Indeed, we show that including all CERES data (not just from the tropics) leads to results similar to what are obtained for the tropics alone – though with more noise. We again find that the outgoing radiation resulting from SST fluctuations exceeds the zerofeedback response thus implying negative feedback. In contrast to

this, the calculated TOA outgoing radiation fluxes from 11 atmospheric models forced by the observed SST are less than the zerofeedback response, consistent with the positive feedbacks that characterize these models. The results imply that the models are

exaggerating climate sensitivity.

Conclusion:

We have corrected the approach of Lindzen and Choi (2009), based on all the criticisms made of the earlier work (Chung et al., 2010; Murphy, 2010; Trenberth et al., 2010). First of all, to improve the statistical significance of the results, we supplemented ERBE data with CERES data, filtered out data noise with 3-month smoothing, objectively chose the intervals based on the smoothed data, and provided confidence intervals for all sensitivity estimates. These constraints helped us to more accurately obtain climate feedback factors than with the original use of monthly data. Next, our new formulas for climate feedback

and sensitivity reflect sharing of tropical feedback with the globe, so that the tropical region is now properly identified as an open system. Last, the feedback factors inferred from the atmospheric models are more consistent with IPCC-defined climate sensitivity

than those from the coupled models. This is because, in the presence of cloud-induced radiative changes altering SST, the climate feedback estimates by the present approach tends to be inaccurate. With all corrections, the conclusion still appears to be

that all current models seem to exaggerate climate sensitivity (some greatly). Moreover, we have shown why studies using simple regressions of ΔFlux on ΔSST serve poorly to determine feedbacks.

To respond to the criticism of our emphasis on the tropical domain (Murphy, 2010; Trenberth et al., 2010), we analyzed the complete record of CERES for the globe (Dessler, 2010) (Note that ERBE data is not available for the high latitudes since the field-of-view is between 60oS and 60oN). As seen in the previous section, the use of the global CERES record leads to a result that is basically similar to that from the tropical data in this

study. The global CERES record, however, contains more noise than the tropical record.

This result lends support to the argument that the water vapor feedback is primarily restricted to the tropics, and there are reasons to suppose that this is also the case for cloud feedbacks. Although, in principle, climate feedbacks may arise from any

latitude, there are substantive reasons for supposing that they are, indeed, concentrated mostly in the tropics. The most prominent model feedback is that due to water vapor, where it is commonly noted that models behave roughly as though relative humidity

were fixed. Pierrehumbert (2009) examined outgoing radiation as a function of surface temperature theoretically for atmospheres with constant relative humidity. His results are shown in Fig. 13.

Fig. 13. OLR vs. surface temperature for water vapor in air, with relative humidity held fixed. The surface air pressure is 1 bar. The temperature profile in the model is the water/air moist adiabat. Calculations were carried out with the Community Climate Model radiation code (Pierrehumbert, 2009).

Specific humidity is low in the extratropics, while it is high in the tropics. We see that for extratropical conditions, outgoing radiation closely approximates the Planck black body radiation (leading to small feedback). However, for tropical conditions, increases in outgoing radiation are suppressed, implying substantial positive feedback. There are also reasons to suppose that cloud feedbacks are largely confined to the tropics. In the

extratropics, clouds are mostly stratiform clouds that are associated with ascending air while descending regions are cloudfree. Ascent and descent are largely determined by the large scale wave motions that dominate the meteorology of the extratropics, and for these waves, we expect approximately 50% cloud cover regardless of temperature (though details may depend on temperature). On the other hand, in the tropics, upper level clouds, at least, are mostly determined by detrainment from cumulonimbus towers, and cloud coverage is observed to depend significantly on temperature (Rondanelli and Lindzen, 2008).

As noted by LCH01, with feedbacks restricted to the tropics, their contribution to global sensitivity results from sharing the feedback fluxes with the extratropics. This led to inclusion of the sharing factor c in Eq. (6). The choice of a larger factor c leads to

a smaller contribution of tropical feedback to global sensitivity, but the effect on the climate sensitivity estimated from the observation is minor. For example, with c = 3, climate sensitivity from the observation and the models is 0.8 K and a higher value

(between 1.3 K and 6.4 K), respectively. With c = 1.5, global equilibrium sensitivity from the observation and the models is 0.6 K and any value higher than 1.6 K, respectively. Note that, as in LCH01, we are not discounting the possibility of feedbacks in the extratropics, but rather we are focusing on the tropical contribution to global feedbacks. Note that, when the dynamical heat transports toward the extratropics are taken into account, the overestimation of tropical feedback by GCMs may lead to even greater overestimation of climate sensitivity (Bates, 2011).

This emphasizes the importance of the tropical domain itself. Our analysis of the data only demands relative instrumental stability over short periods, and is largely independent of long term drift. Concerning the different sampling from the ERBE and CERES instruments, Murphy et al. (2009) repeated the Forster and Gregory (2006) analysis for the CERES and found very different values than those from the ERBE. However, in this

study, the addition of CERES data to the ERBE data does little to change the results for ΔFlux/ΔSST – except that its value is raised a little (as is also true when only CERES data is used.). This may be because these previous simple regression approaches include

the distortion of feedback processes by equilibration. In distinguishing a precise feedback from the data, the simple regression method is dependent on the data period, while our method is not. The simple regression result in Fig. 7 is worse if the model

integration time is longer (probably due to the greater impact of increasing radiative forcing).

Our study also suggests that, in current coupled atmosphereocean models, the atmosphere and ocean are too weakly coupled since thermal coupling is inversely proportional to sensitivity (Lindzen and Giannitsis, 1998). It has been noted by Newman et al. (2009) that coupling is crucial to the simulation of phenomena like El Niño. Thus, corrections of the sensitivity of current climate models might well improve the behavior of coupled

models, and should be encouraged. It should be noted that there have been independent tests that also suggest sensitivities less than predicted by current models. These tests are based on the response to sequences of volcanic eruptions (Lindzen and Giannitsis, 1998), on the vertical structure of observed versus modeled temperature increase (Douglass, 2007; Lindzen, 2007), on ocean heating (Schwartz, 2007; Schwartz, 2008), and on

satellite observations (Spencer and Braswell, 2010). Most claims of greater sensitivity are based on the models that we have just shown can be highly misleading on this matter. There have also been attempts to infer sensitivity from paleoclimate data (Hansen

et al., 1993), but these are not really tests since the forcing is essentially unknown given major uncertainties in clouds, dust loading and other factors. Finally, we have shown that the attempts to obtain feedbacks from simple regressions of satellite measured outgoing radiation on SST are inappropriate.

One final point needs to be made. Low sensitivity of global mean temperature anomaly to global scale forcing does not imply that major climate change cannot occur. The earth has, of course, experienced major cool periods such as those associated with ice ages and warm periods such as the Eocene (Crowley and North, 1991). As noted, however, in Lindzen (1993), these episodes were primarily associated with changes in the equatorto-

pole temperature difference and spatially heterogeneous forcing. Changes in global mean temperature were simply the residue of such changes and not the cause.

==============================================================

Dr. Lindzen has the full paper on his personal website here:

http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/236-Lindzen-Choi-2011.pdf

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August 18, 2011 1:07 pm

R. Gates says:
August 17, 2011 at 8:56 pm
This one line from this new paper:
Sorry, wrong answer. They can argue all they want, but as every single global climate model shows both the greatest effects and greatest positive feedbacks to global warming are first and foremost concentrated in the polor regions
—–
Once again, when reality disagrees with the models, reality is in error.

August 18, 2011 1:19 pm

” it is difficult to explain 5+ deg shifts in temperature during glacial/interglacial periods without the inclusion of a positive feedback factor.”
There is a positive feedback. All of that ice melting.
Fast forward to today. The ice is almost all melted. The remaining ice is in places where either little sunlight falls, or places that are far enough below freezing that huge temperature increases will be needed to get it to melt.
The amount of ice in temperate latitudes and exists in places close to the freezing line, are small enough to be ignored.
With most of the ice already gone, that particular feedback has run it’s course.

August 18, 2011 1:23 pm

pochas says:
August 18, 2011 at 7:27 am
Are you actually trying to argue that 100% of the “heat” that results from extra CO2 is sucked up by the oceans, and that until the oceans are “full”, there will be no atmospheric heating?
If there is no atmospheric heating, how do the oceans start warming up in the first place?
How exactly do the oceans suck up heat from CO2 in continental interiors, a 1000 miles or more from any ocean?

Septic Matthew
August 18, 2011 1:43 pm

Willis wrote: “Regarding writing it up, did that already, it was peer-reviewed and published in Energy and Environment a year or so ago.”
Sorry I missed it. I’ll get it. And congratulations on the publication. Any published comments, critiques from atmospheric scientists?
Willis wrote: “But it’s not a “feedback mechanism”, Matthew. It is a control mechanism involving a series of regime shifts. These don’t involve changes in feedback.

But at least people are starting to discuss the question about the underlying paradigm describing climate. Linear, or thermostatic?”
I think that you are mixing up distinctions. First, there is the designed (“thermostat”) vs biologically selected (“homeostatic”) vs non-teleological (“self-organizing”.) It is one thing to say that a hurricane happens because of the laws of physics and thermodynamics, but another thing to say that the hurricane happens because it serves the purpose of maintaining the earth in a particular region of phase space.
Second, you mix up “linear vs nonlinear” with “teleological vs non-teleological” (or purposeful vs. non-purposeful.) I suppose that we are all our own lexicographers to some degree, but to write (as someone else did) that boiling water has a “homeostatic” mechanism because water vaporizes instead of increasing temperature is a perversion of “homeostatic” and “homeostasis”. I think it perverts the notion of “thermostat” to say that the climate system has a “thermostat”. A religious person might say that a reasonably stable climate is evidence that God designed the world for us, thus justifying the use of the word “thermostat”; but I think that a scientific claim is merely that the system dynamics operate to keep the system always within a definable (potentially) finite region of the phase space.
Lastly, about “changes in feedbacks”. If the temperature increases produce increases in atmospheric water content, and those changes produce increases in cloud cover in the daytime, and those daytime cloud cover increases reduce insolation, and the reduction in insolation produces a reduction in temperature, and the reduction in temperature produces a reduction in daytime cloud cover that … produces an increase in temperature, then all you have is a feedback loop and not a series of regime shifts. The processes that you describe entail lots of feedbacks (energy flows), but not necessarily any series of “regime shifts”, as the system moves through its phase space.
So in conclusion, I would recommend that you focus your narration on explicating the processes with increased precision, but avoid teleological language.
Also, you might like the book “Dynamic Analysis of Weather and Climate” by Marcel Leroux, which describes some of the energy flows in the climate system.

pochas
August 18, 2011 1:44 pm

Mark Wilson says:
August 18, 2011 at 1:23 pm
pochas says:
August 18, 2011 at 7:27 am
“Are you actually trying to argue that 100% of the “heat” that results from extra CO2 is sucked up by the oceans, and that until the oceans are “full”, there will be no atmospheric heating?”
Regretfully, I have to retract that comment. Major math error. It now looks like the time constant is only 3.5 years, so short cycle thermal effects should be easily detectable.
Retracted: http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/08/16/new-paper-from-lindzen-and-choi-implies-that-the-models-are-exaggerating-climate-sensitivity/#comment-722329

Wallace Brand
August 18, 2011 1:55 pm

Consensus is relevant to politics; irrelevant to science. Observations are relevant to science. What is real can be universally and consistently be observed.

August 18, 2011 2:32 pm

pochas says:
August 18, 2011 at 1:44 pm
I hope that the next time I make an error, I can be half as gracious.

Bomber_the_Cat
August 18, 2011 2:41 pm

John Finn says:
August 18, 2011 at 6:07 am
John, thanks for your response. I broadly agree with everything you say apart from perhaps the last sentence “to be fair to the ‘warmers’, it is difficult to explain 5+ deg shifts in temperature during glacial/interglacial periods without the inclusion of a positive feedback factor”.
Over the past few million years we know that this planet has oscillated between glacial maxima (commonly called ice ages) and glacial minima (inter-glacial periods). This cycle repeats over a period of about 100,000 years. There have been a series of about 30 ice ages, interspersed with inter-glacials, as far as we know.The Vostok ice core record provides us with evidence of this and a measure of the temperature and CO2 concentrations over the last few ice ages.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vostok-ice-core-petit.png
It is not plausible to explain the temperature swings from ice ages to inter-glacial peaks in terms of ‘feedback’. For instance, from the ice core record, we can see that the world begins its plunge into an ice age when the CO2 levels are at a maximum, then it pulls out of them when the CO2 levels are at a minimum. Obviously, there is some other mechanism here which must be much more powerful than any feedback effects (because it overrides and reverses them) It is somewhat illogical, therefore, to ascribe such temperature swings to feedback. There is something else happening (feedback may play a small part, but cannot be the dominant factor).
As an aside, I know that people often say that the difference between an inter-glacial and an ice age is only 5 Deg.C. but, unless I have forgotten how to read a graph, you can see from the Vostok ice core and the GISP ice core record that the difference between maxima and minima is about 10 deg.C. (maybe It just depends at what temperature you declare an ice age).
It may be worth mentioning that when evidence of a warming world, glaciers retreating, ice caps melting, sea levels rising etc, are presented as proof of man-made climate change, all these phenomena commenced when the last ice age ended, 15,000 years ago – it is unlikely that human kind were responsible.

R. Gates
August 18, 2011 2:43 pm

Mark Wilson says:
August 18, 2011 at 1:07 pm
R. Gates says:
August 17, 2011 at 8:56 pm
This one line from this new paper:
Sorry, wrong answer. They can argue all they want, but as every single global climate model shows both the greatest effects and greatest positive feedbacks to global warming are first and foremost concentrated in the polor regions
—–
Once again, when reality disagrees with the models, reality is in error.
____
As we are seeing a greater degree of warming in the Arctic and many different positive feedbacks, it seems reality and the general trends indicated by the models are both quite in agreement– and this fact seems to drive skeptics a bit nuts.

John W
August 18, 2011 2:49 pm

Mark Wilson says:
August 18, 2011 at 1:01 pm
John W says:
August 17, 2011 at 5:32 pm
He was half right, in that CO2 growth rates sort of matched his prediction B.
He was half right, in that temperature chang sort of matched prediction C.
So obviously, two half rights added together equals a whole right.

I think we’re flying past the point here; he made predictions (more accurately termed projections) of three different scenarios of future emissions (A,B,C) without any prediction of which scenario would happen. For an analogy, if I were to be giving you driving directions along the East coast of USA I might make a prediction of how long it would take for three different routes: I95=12hours, US1=15 hours, US17=20 hours. I’m not making any prediction of which route you’ll take, what I’m predicting is the time it’ll take for each route. Similarly, Hansen predicted (projected) what the global average temperature would be for each “route” of emission possibilities. So, if we had followed Hansen’s advice, right now in perception he would be the savior of the world but in reality a con artist. Without the ability to go back in time it would be exceedingly difficult to prove that Hansen’s projection for “business as usual” would not have happened had we not went with “business as usual”.

R. Gates
August 18, 2011 3:01 pm

Mark Wilson says:
August 18, 2011 at 12:50 pm
Len Ornstein says:
August 17, 2011 at 12:34 pm
1) Not much sunshine falls on the poles.
2) There has been no observed trend indicating a loss of ice cover.
3) Seasonal observations show that when ice decreases, the extra water vapor causes clouds to increase.
Overall, the so called polar amplification does not exist.
____
To point 1) define what you mean by “not much”. Not a scientific statement. Certainly the poles get less sunlight than the equator, but polar amplification of overall global warming is already happening.
To point 2) Clearly quite incorrect, and not one Arctic Sea ice expert would back you up on this absurd statement.
To point 3) The net annual effect of cloud cover increase in the Arctic (since it gets less insolation anyway) has a completely different effect than cloud cover increase over the tropics. In winter, cloud cover increases surface temperature in the Arctic on a pretty consistent basis.
Overall, the “so-called” polar amplification effect is far more than “so-called”. It is a real phenomenon.

August 18, 2011 4:12 pm

John Finn said:
“The accumulation of CO2 in the atmosphere increases the average height at which energy is emitted to space. This means energy is emitted from a colder region which, in turn, means the energy emitted is reduced (Stefan-Boltzmann Law).”
That puzzles me but I may have misunderstood.
More CO2 means more energy in the air which warms and so the tropopause rises due to the lapse rate. So far so good. But then one has a higher temperature at a greater height so energy is not being emitted from a colder region, merely a region that WAS colder BEFORE the extra CO2 was added.
Doesn’t that imply that more energy is being emitted rather than less ?

Theo Goodwin
August 18, 2011 4:45 pm

JPeden says:
August 18, 2011 at 8:40 am
“But my related question is, given the mechanisms involved in the funtioning of the “thermostat”, why is it even necessary for CO2 to exist within this schema, and/or why would CO2 produce “ghg” effects much or even any more pronounced or drastic than water vapor already has or could, given the presence of a nearly infinite supply for it? I’ve been obsessing about my question, now for nigh onto 8 years!”
I think I share your concerns, though my perspective might be different. I would like to know what overlaps or conflicts exist between Willis’ theory and the “mainstream” theory/model/thingy held by “mainstream” climate scientists.
My guess is that the “mainstream” thingy cannot account for what Willis describes. The mainstream model/theory/thingy was created to show that manmade CO2 causes a rise in Earth’s radiation budget and, thereby, a rise in global temperatures. It really does not address anything else. It does not imply physical hypotheses about the natural processes that make up Earth’s climate. Willis’ account of his “homeostatic system” is a set of physical hypotheses which describe the inner workings and interactions among three linked systems that are permanent features of Earth’s climate (to within an ice age). Willis’ theory does not address Earth’s radiation budget, though his “homeostatic system” might set some limits to claims about the effects of rising radiation. It seems to me that Willis and the Warmista are talking about different things; that is, Warmista have a “radiation only” account of Earth’s temperature and Willis has an account of natural phenomena, apart from radiation, whose behavior tends to maintain Earth’s temperature in a narrow range.
My hunch is that Willis has the advantage. Willis has physical hypotheses about climate. By contrast, Warmista have no physical hypotheses about climate apart from their claims about radiation, but all the supposed feedbacks are found in the behavior of the natural processes that make up Earth’s climate, natural processes such as the behavior of clouds or the behavior of Willis’ homeostatic system. To address the feedbacks that are necessary to explain dangerous increases in Earth’s radiation budget, Warmista must create physical hypotheses along the lines of those created by Willis. The fact that Warmista have no such physical hypotheses and no plans to do the research necessary to create them is why I contend that Warmista are neither physical scientists nor empirical researchers. They are more akin to metaphysicians.

DirkH
August 18, 2011 5:01 pm

R. Gates says:
August 18, 2011 at 7:29 am
“and especially as displayed in the Polar Amplification of general global warming. Amplification involves feedbacks, positive ones of multiple types. ”
No. Amplification requires an AMPLIFIER; you usually use a NEGATIVE feedback to reduce the amplification to the level you need. Here is a simple amplifier without feedback:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Electronic_Amplifier_Class_A.png
You have an input signal, an amplifying element, in this case a transistor, and a power source. That’s it. No feedback.
Here is a very common way of using an OpAmp with a negative feedback to control the level of amplification. Without feedback, the OpAmp can be seen as an amplifier with practically unlimited amplification. Due to the added negative feedback, the amplification can be reduced to the level you need.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Operational_amplifier_noninverting.svg

R. Gates
August 18, 2011 5:08 pm

Willis says:
R. Gates, I’d need much more information to move on those claims. “Amplification involves feedbacks, positive ones of multiple types. To suggest this isn’t occurring is to deny what many research studies have shown.” Sounds good, but without information, that means nothing. What research studies, what feedbacks, what amplification, what have the studies shown?
___
A few studies, representing multiple positive feedback paths for polar amplification:
http://journals.ametsoc.org/doi/abs/10.1175/2010JCLI3297.1
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010AGUFM.C13B0553L
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v464/n7293/abs/nature09051.html
http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/MET/Faculty/jff/2010_10%20Role%20of%20synoptic%20eddy%20feedback%20on%20polar%20climate%20responses%20to%20the%20anthropogenic%20forcing.pdf
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010AGUFMGC41B0902C
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0277379110000405
http://www.pnas.org/content/107/4/1295.short
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2010AGUFMGC52A..07D

Manfred
August 18, 2011 6:03 pm

R. Gates,
you are still on the wrong track.
This paper is about the total energy budget. And regarding the arctic (you say polar but antarctic is behaving differently anyways) 2 things matter most:
1. The arctic is small compared with the tropics
2. The arctic receives much less energy per area than the tropics
1+2 combined mean: the arctic is negligible in a total energy budget, even if feedbacks there would be strongly positive.
(And recent findings have even put that assumptions into question, as siginificant negative feedbacks have been identified, such as ocean heat loss without ice cover.}

August 18, 2011 6:16 pm

R Gates:
And here’s why increased cloud formation in the Arctic acts as a negative feedback that “may overwhelm” positive feedback:
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2011/2011JD015804.shtml

Dave Springer
August 18, 2011 6:28 pm

While R. Gates on August 18, 2011 at 5:08 pm is trying his hand at literature bluffing about Arctic “amplification” I’d simply as everyone to take a look at the average surface temperature record for the Arctic (satellite temperature record from 1979) and ask yourself if it looks “amplified”.
A picture is worth a thousand literature bluffs…
http://www.climate4you.com/images/MSU%20UAH%20ArcticAndAntarctic%20MonthlyTempSince1979%20With37monthRunningAverage.gif

Jim D
August 18, 2011 7:07 pm

David Springer, you showed that the Arctic warmed by 1 degree in the last 30 years which is twice the global average. Is that the point you were making? This shows the sea-ice albedo feedback quite well to me.

JRR Canada
August 18, 2011 8:37 pm

Thanks Willis, you realise if you’re on the right track with your heresy then we may one day have an accurate 3-5 day weather forcast.

R. Gates
August 18, 2011 9:41 pm

Hockey Schtick says:
August 18, 2011 at 6:16 pm
R Gates:
And here’s why increased cloud formation in the Arctic acts as a negative feedback that “may overwhelm” positive feedback:
http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2011/2011JD015804.shtml
———-
Did you read the final line if the abstract? “if the cloudiness increases in the summertime.”
Clouds in the arctic can be strongly warming in the wintertime and prevent the loss of heat to space. The net effects of all feedbacks in the arctic during a warming world is positive.

August 18, 2011 9:43 pm

The following is meant as critique of the argument that is made by Lindzen & Choi in their article (http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/236-Lindzen-Choi-2011.pdf.) I’m about to show that this argument is not a “scientific” argument from the non-falsifiability of one of its premises. L&C base their argument upon the premise that in the absence of feedback:
ΔT = G * ΔF –(1)
where ΔF is the “radiative forcing” from the change in the CO2 concentration, ΔT is the change in the steady state global surface temperature and G is a constant.
To understand what I’m about to say one needs to grasp the mathematical ideas of a “Cartesian product,” a “relation” and a “functional relation.” The Cartesian product of ΔF with ΔT is the complete set of ordered pairs of the numerical values of ΔF and ΔT in which the first of the two values of each pair belongs to ΔF and the second to ΔT. By definition, a “relation” from ΔF to ΔT is a non-empty subset of the Cartesian project of ΔF with ΔT. A “functional relation” from ΔF to ΔT is relation in which for every value of ΔF there is exactly one value of ΔT. A “linear functional relation” from ΔF to ΔT is a functional relation for which ΔT = C * ΔF + D, where C and D are constants. Equation (1) is an example of a linear functional relation from ΔF to ΔT.
What is the basis for the claim by L&C of the existence of a linear functional relation? L^C cite Schwartz (2007) and Hartmann (1994). I’ve not read the earlier of the two works. Schwartz does not attribute the functionality or linearity to facts or logic. He attributes it to a convention (see http://www.ecd.bnl.gov/steve/pubs/HeatCapacity.pdf. top of p. 5). However, there are alternatives to this convention. In particular, the relation from ΔF to ΔT could be: a) non-existent, b) functional but non-linear or c) ambiguous. By “ambiguous” I mean that for one or more values of ΔF there are several values of ΔT.
As there are alternatives to the linear functional relation that is stated by equation (1), the
statement that is made by equation (1) might be true or false. However, as ΔT is not an observable feature of the real world, equation (1) is non-falsifiable thus lying outside science. Thus, the argument that is made by L&C in their article is not a scientific argument.

JMartin
August 18, 2011 10:32 pm

I wonder whether Lindzen and Choi had to give any of the paper’s integrity in order to get it by the hostile peer-reviewers

Richard S Courtney
August 19, 2011 1:36 am

Terry Oldberg:
At August 18, 2011 at 9:43 pm you say:
“The following is meant as critique of the argument that is made by Lindzen & Choi in their article (http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/236-Lindzen-Choi-2011.pdf.) I’m about to show that this argument is not a “scientific” argument from the non-falsifiability of one of its premises. …”
The equation you dispute is a fundamental precept of the AGW theory and it is presented as being ‘true’ by the IPCC. It indicates an amount of global warming as a function of a change to radiative forcing.
Lindzen & Choi have measured a parameter used in that equation. Then, in their article, Lindzen & Choi apply the value they derive in the equation and, thus, demonstrate that AGW would be unlikely to be a problem according to the IPCC’s argument. This demonstration by Lindzen & Choi is pefectly “scientific”.
If you think using the equation is “not a “scientific” argument” then present your case to the IPCC. It is their equation.
Richard

Dave Springer
August 19, 2011 4:05 am

Jim D says:
August 18, 2011 at 7:07 pm
“David Springer, you showed that the Arctic warmed by 1 degree in the last 30 years which is twice the global average. Is that the point you were making? This shows the sea-ice albedo feedback quite well to me.”
Oh I’m sorry Jim. Mibad. You’re quite right. I forgot the goalpost had been moved. The original prediction was called “polar amplification”. As you can see in the graph if you add the temperature anomaly from the north and south poles together then divide by 2 you get 0.5C of warming during the period which is the global average during the same period.
Ever cognizant of their errors a memo was sent out that “polar amplification” is now “arctic amplification”. I forgot about the memo. So sorry.

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