Via Slashdot:
“On Monday, the Obama administration announced the next steps that the US will take to build its 21st century electric grid, and Information Technology is expected to play a big part in the plans. The White House hosted a 90-minute media event called ‘Building the 21st Century Electric Grid’ and is releasing a new report on what it will take for lawmakers and the private sector to come together to solve this aspect of the energy challenge.”
Here’s more from the official White House statement:
“Along with the announcement of new public and private initiatives aimed at building a smarter, expanded grid and empowering consumers, the Cabinet-level National Science and Technology Council (NSTC) will release a new report: ‘A Policy Framework for the 21st Century Grid.’ This policy framework charts a collaborative path forward for applying digital information or ’smart grid’ technologies to the nation’s electricity infrastructure to facilitate the integration of renewable sources of power into the grid; help accommodate the growing number of electric vehicles; help avoid blackouts and restore power quicker when outages occur; and reduce the need for new power plants.”
Designing for peak demand is costly and wasteful
Perhaps. But when the road is overloaded at rush hour, traffic slows but everyone still gets home.
When the power grid overloads, everyone is COMPLETELY STOPPED, no power at all to anyone for hours or days (except those fortunate enough to have generators), so work stops, nursing home breathing machines stop, traffic lights stop, telephone service stops, hospitals can’t do surgeries, water companies can’t pump to residents, stores close, cooking stops, food spoils, tempers flare, riots, looting, people die.
Now tell me again why power companies shouldn’t design for peak demand?
A “Smart Grid” is an economic wet dream for the utilities and thoroughly embraced by central planners and control freaks. It is a way to enhance the utility of diffuse and inefficient power generation by “renewable sources”. It amazes me that we fret over presumed scarcity of hydrocarbon fuels 50-100 years in the future or even a slightly warmer planet when our grandchildren are elderly 90 years from now. We’re prepared to invest trillions of dollars. Yet we have the obvious and impending implosion of Social Security and Medicare bearing down on us in OUR lifetimes and we prefer to ignore the problem…because it’s “too hard” to solve. The Smart Grid is a green fantasy and a socialist’s dream.
There’s a link to a (110 page pdf) report by the UK National Grid here http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/06/14/national_grid_2020/ . The report describes the problems, and frightening costs, of hooking windmills to the grid, as planned by our demented government.
What it really means is that with the click of a mouse button power from places like Oklahoma, which has no power shortages, can be redirected to larger markets like California which has lots of power generation issues. So under this program California’s problems can become a problem for the people of Oklahoma. Great, I’ll end up subsidizing California’s electrical needs and sitting in the dark more frequently. While those in California ‘feel good’ about being all green using this magical electricity that just appears out of thin air.
We needed a new roof anyway, so we roofed the place with solar panels. Enough that, even on cloudy days, the system produces more power than we need. The power company doesn’t pay enough for the extra power to be worth the trouble of dealing with them. So, when they asked where we would like the new smart meter installed, we told them to put it someplace where the sun doesn’t shine.
From Gnstr on June 14, 2011 at 6:56 am:
And now that the US is being bankrupted by decades of runaway social spending with ever-mounting debt in a vicious process that is virtually politically and possibly even financially impossible to stop before a complete financial collapse, We Can See They Were RIGHT!
“From the report. “If utilities do not have a strong incentive to sell less energy and operate more efficiently,
they will not see sufficient benefits from investing in certain smart grid applications.”
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This is the dilemma utilities are in. Many, don’t really want to implement the residential smart grid technologies. But, they’re forced to. In August or July, even though we’re contracted to buy electricity at a specific rate, our total rate will be set. It will be based upon our usage during the peak demand day of the year. The lower the usage, the lower the rate. This will most likely be the day of the highest heat index for our state. We’ve been lucky so far and have had less usage compared to other utilities, but one day, we won’t be. And, we’ll pass the additional cost on. If they (governmental controllers) become too punitive, we won’t have a choice but to be punitive to our consumers.
Ultimately, this will lead to a government takeover of the utility business if left uncorrected. There is no successful business model that discourages use of their product. The industry will fail or break the consumer but we’re not going to do without electricity, so a govt takeover of some form will be what is required. For those that can’t see this, …….open your eyes. This is disastrous in terms of our economy, but much worse in terms of our rights and liberties.
Yes…first the Smart Grid. Then the legions of hackers to break in and make life miserable for all of us a month later. I don’t see any way this won’t happen. We are setting ourself up for a recipe of continuing major grid disasters.
From Hemmann
I understand everybody’s tendency here is to view anything Obama tries to propose as a big ticket item, but of all people, do the current grid that runs at inefficient levels actually make rational sense? Some people around here demonstrate the same lock-step, non-objective conclusions based pronouncements ridiculed on the other side. If the price of electricity continues its upward trend, not hard to believe, how about constructive counter proposal that eliminates the loss and inefficiency that a decades old infrastructure produces?
Just sayin’ the problem is not political.
IMHO
Jim, too. says:
June 14, 2011 at 9:43 am
Yes…first the Smart Grid. Then the legions of hackers to break in and make life miserable for all of us a month later. I don’t see any way this won’t happen. We are setting ourself up for a recipe of continuing major grid disasters.
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It will and there’s nothing we can do about it. Oh, sure, some net admin guys like me will get fired from time to time for “allowing” this to happen, but the fact is, the confluence of the two advancing technologies(smart grid and the internet) makes it impossible to be hack free. Especially small companies that can’t afford teams admin or security teams.
@David Hemmann
‘”how about constructive counter proposal that eliminates the loss and inefficiency that a decades old infrastructure produces?”
How about the govt stops squandering resources on its pet projects and allows the free market to make unbiased objective determinations of cost/ efficiency? Intelligent design was a joke, you know that right?
AGW gridlock.
…-
“Wind turbines switched off on 38 days every year”
“Wind turbines will have to be switched off on 38 days every year because it is too windy, the National Grid said yesterday.”
“In a new report, the grid said it could not cope with the surge of power from wind farms and will have to switch off turbines to avoid overloading the power transmission networks.
The admission casts doubt on the Government’s decision to push for a seven-fold increase in the amount of electricity generated by wind by 2020.
Wind farm operators are given “constraint” payments to keep their turbines idle and some experts believe this will cost almost £300 million a year by 2020, with the cost passed on to consumers.
The National Grid fears that warm and breezy summer nights could cause a surge in the electricity, combined with a lack of consumer demand. The electricity cannot be stored, so one solution – known as the “balancing mechanism” – is to switch off or reduce the power supplied.
They are currently switched off on 25 days a year, but the National Grid says this will have to increase significantly as more turbines are built. ”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/windpower/8573885/Wind-turbines-switched-off-on-38-days-every-year.html
You people must learn to trust the new Messiah completely, and put all your faith in his ability to work miracles. Then nothing can go wrong!
We saw with the political calculus in who got flooded and who didn’t with the lower Mississippi flood, and in which GM dealerships were closed and which stayed open how the smart grid will be used by at least one of the two major parties.
The electrical grid should be isolated from the internet for any attempt at real security. The grid can function wtih internal communications, but a hacker could be anywhere. Ubiquitous wireless access [1] makes the hacker’s job easier. Cyberecurity is a myth. Multiple independent isolated systems may be needed. Making one large connected power system may be a fatal flaw. Smart grid forces connections between systems and utilities want to provide connections to the internet as a new revenue stream.
Security issues argue strongly for modular nuclear power [2], about 100 MW each, near point of use, in isolation from other systems, except perhaps in an emergency. Multiple redundant modular reactors should provide capacity and reliability.
1) http://smartgrid.ieee.org/standards-ieee-approved-standards-related-to-smart-grid/3762-802154-2006-ieee-standard-for-information-technology-telecommunications-and-information-exchange-between-systems-local-and-metropolitan-area-networks-specific-requirements-part-154-wireless-medium-access-control-mac-and-physical-layer-phy-
2) http://spectrum.ieee.org/energy/nuclear/downsizing-nuclear-power-plants
David Hemmann says:
June 14, 2011 at 9:56 am
From Hemmann
“….. do the current grid that runs at inefficient levels actually make rational sense? Some people around here demonstrate the same lock-step, non-objective conclusions based pronouncements ridiculed on the other side. If the price of electricity continues its upward trend, not hard to believe, …….
Just sayin’ the problem is not political. IMHO”
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First, of all, the words efficient and inefficient are thrown around like there has been some objective assessment of the current state of our grid. There hasn’t been. Are there things we can do to make it better? Sure. Newer less stressed lines. We could build generation plants closer to their destination. Some hydro generators are over 50 y/o. Obviously we could replace them with more efficient models. I’d recommend putting more in at any place deemed viable.
As to the rising rates, surely you can see why this is happening and how it is entirely political. Coal is the cheapest source of fuel for electric generation. Politically, though, it is almost impossible to open a new one. See here for just one example..http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Holcomb_Expansion…look at the dates!!!! These people are begging to drop some $4 billion dollars in western Kansas in order to provide cheap and reliable energy to the tri-state area. We’ve been trying to get started for over 5 years now. The then governor, now the Sec of HHS, blocked them every step of the way…..often on the fringe of legality and certainly against the will of both houses. The next cheapest source is nuclear power. We’re not building them either…..guess why! More politics. I mentioned earlier we should build more hydro….we’re not! Guess why!! More politics.
Back to your “inefficient”. What magical thing do you believe can happen with the wave of a presidential hand? Our grid won’t change its structure, I’m not aware of any proposal to significantly change anything, so let’s address what we know. First of all, I think it behooves advocates of “smart grid” tech to familiarize themselves with a thing I like to call reality.
Wind and solar….are the most expensive and unreliable form of energy generation. We can’t store AC power. Coal and nuclear are used for base load. Ideally, nat gas would be used for peak demand, only. But if we embrace wind and solar, it would have to back up base load, too. The most efficient use of natural gas is for heating and cooking. Using wind and solar will necessarily increase the cost of electricity and heating and what ever other uses we can think of that applies to nat gas. Save it for peak demand, heating and cooking. That’s the most efficient use of that fuel. Understand that planting more whirly gigs will not increase any efficiency, but rather run counter toward the stated goal. Also, understand solar panels use REE……China has got that market cornered unless we reopen some old mines. Consider what is necessary to obtain it from China and then think of how “efficient” that is.
David, there’s no reason on God’s green earth why electricity shouldn’t be cheap, reliable and readily available to every resident of this nation. There’s no excuse why it isn’t except for the politically motivated lunatics that block cheap and reliable energy at every turn in any form.
Hoser says:
June 14, 2011 at 10:45 am
The electrical grid should be isolated from the internet for any attempt at real security.
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Too late. Cloud computing and smart grid tech has been going on for several years now.
Hoser
June 14, 2011 at 8:45 am
###
Do you remember that California energy crisis thing a few years ago? The talking heads panned it off as caused by deregulation. Only in the lefty mind can adding regulations be called deregulation. Anyways, it was clearly engineered by Duke and Reliant, though the MSM did their best to hide the fact. Guess what both Duke and Reliant were also up to back then? If you guessed pushing powerline broadband you’d be correct. Powerline broadband is idiotic from a technical point of view, so Duke and Reliant were tacking thew crony capitalistic route, which also entails destroying the wireless and cable broadband industries, too bad comcast is also a crony.
The smart grid will reduce the need for new power plants because we will all have our quotas so the SMART meters can cut our power access when we reach it. We will avoid brownouts and outages since we will all have limited access to power. Big Brother will be watching all of us. (rationing)
Alright, that’s it. I’m just going to have to run the house from an off-grid inverter. I’ll use the new-old Nickel-Iron batteries that last for several decades with minimal maintenance. If I add solar and/or wind generation, those can charge the batteries directly.
The only thing the “Smart Meter” will see, my only connection to the grid, will be a big-ass industrial battery charger. If they start charging different rates around here for peak usage times, I’ll charge during the off-peak times. If I add those “renewable” sources then I’ll wire up the system to wait for the inverter to set off a low-battery alarm, then run the charger for just so-many minutes after the alarm turns off, use the grid power for the practical minimum. And that’ll be when, due to the changing energy prices, I don’t find it more economical to simply charge the batteries from a fossil fuel-burning generator instead of the grid.
If you don’t want a “Smart Grid” snooping into your energy usage, nor will risk possible hacking of your modern “smart” appliances, nor will accept either utility (read government) imposed shut-downs of your equipment or “necessary” blackouts, isolation is the way to go.
RockyRoad says:
There’s absolutely no way Obama is going to survive this next election, were he to spend even TWO billion dollars trying to hornswoggle people to vote for him again. We’ve all had about as much “hopey/changey” con-artistry as we can take. The American public will not be so easily duped next time around. What he’s offering we don’t want.
Unfortunately, the only alternatives are fast or slow. There is no “reverse” on this ride.
punch line: “and reduce the need for new power plants.”
After all, what good is wealth if you can’t make it scarce and then control it and everyone else with it?
The worst person I know
Mother in law…mother in law!
The worst person I know
Mother in law,,,mother in law!
She thinks her voice is the Constitution
But if she thinks that should be the solution
Satan should be her name
Mother in law…mother in law!
…Sent from down below
Mother in law….
oops, She follows wherever I go
From Hemmann
In response to James Sexton:
According to Dept of Energy study, a 6.9 % loss of power occurs within our system that costs consumers 19 billion a year. You may wish to question their methodology, but 20 billion a year seems a rather high cost of for you and me to have to pay. I’m not advocating Obama’s approach per se. I’m advocating against the carping that hides a real need to upgrade the US infrastructure for purely economic reasons. I don’t know if anybody around here lives near Hoover Dam or the TVA, but these “government intrusions” into the private sector cost a ton of money spent just when our economy was DOA. These projects produced jobs and increased the economic welfare for a class of people.
Why not the positive discussion for a change instead of the usual “government is going to eat me” meme that thrives on paranoia. It the same non-logical hysteria of the AGW extremists from the reverse side.
Obama will be re-elected because too many Americans have become ignorant of economics and basic math.