From The GWPF, newsbytes on the subject of UK Businesses Threaten To Flee Abroad To Escape Green Energy Levies
British industry’s ability to compete with companies overseas is under threat from punitive green energy costs, the new president of the CBI has told The Sunday Telegraph. Sir Roger Carr warns in an interview that the Coalition must give “some sort of support” over rising energy costs to UK manufacturers or else risk seeing businesses relocate abroad with the consequential loss of jobs. His comments – ahead of a CBI energy conference on Tuesday – come amid growing concern over the cost of renewable energy subsidies and so-called ‘green stealth taxes’. —The Sunday Telegraph, 12 June 2011
The CBI and Britain’s leading chemical firms have warned that the proposed UK “carbon floor” tax (unique in the world) will make our industry so uncompetitive that, unless the policy is changed, it will lead inevitably to mass plant closures and job losses. Similarly, the European Metals Association warned last week that the EU’s various “anti-carbon” policies are becoming so costly that they are already forcing steel, aluminium and other producers in their energy-intensive industry to relocate outside Europe, losing hundreds of thousands more jobs. Sooner or later, politicians must emerge with the sense and the courage to question this madness – as many other people are now beginning to do. But there is little sign of their emergence yet. —Christopher Booker, The Sunday Telegraph, 12 June 2011
The Coalition’s obsession with climate change is damaging Britain’s recovery from recession, former Tory chancellor Nigel Lawson warns today. Writing in the Daily Mail, Lord Lawson delivers a scathing assessment of David Cameron’s so-called ‘green agenda’ and says it is ‘time this Government grew up’. Lord Lawson, one of the most respected Tory figures of recent decades, accuses the Prime Minister of risking Britain’s economy to make a ‘symbolic’ point. In a devastating verdict he writes: ‘The Government’s highly damaging decarbonisation policy, enshrined in the absurd Climate Change Act, does not have a leg to stand on. It is intended, at massive cost, to be symbolic: To make good David Cameron’s ambition to make his administration “the greenest government ever”. —Nigel Lawson, Daily Mail, 11 June 2011
It is time for Britain to walk away from its ridiculously stringent renewable energy plan.
This whole story is an instructive and depressing example of what happens when consensus rules. “The science is settled” was the line, and our politicians, few of them any more scientific than you or I, fell in with it. It was once famously said that, for evil to prosper, it is necessary only for good people to do nothing. But the peculiar hypocrisy of modern culture is such that it is when our leaders rush around trying most self-consciously to do good that the real damage is done. —Charles Moore, The Daily Telegraph, 11 June 2011
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Polishing your assumptons Epigenes?
Now all we need are a bunch PATCO diehards (Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization) to come in and give a lecture on how Reagan “wrecked” the country.
Here in France rhe deep coal mines were closed under Mitterand and “La Départment des mines” switched over to testing imported cars! The French can never abolish anything. Still, I bet Maggie gave him a few whacks with her handbag to set him on the right track. I have familly who worked at the coalface. They tell me that what made mining unprofitable was the five day week, which meant three days of actual coal production.
I heard it was the reverse. Well, it’ll come out in the lawsuits.
“banjo says:
June 13, 2011 at 5:16 am
The most powerful union was the NUM, To finish the NUM she had to curb britains reliance on coal,and humiliate Arthur Scargill”
Classic use of “fear”, create an image of a bogeyman – then, in that case, moderate force was enough to defeat and destroy Scargill and whole collateral communities many of which are still broken today almost 30 years later, while the masses cheered.
Then create the Global warming bogeyman to manipulate the energy industry and be a general purpose stick to wave for mass control.
Nowadays the fear is debt, the nation’s credit card is maxed out, your home is at risk, it’s worse than we thought. Amplified by an ever desperate press that thrives on a diet of fear and aspiration to maintain its circulation. Market manipulations keeping the rich, rich, others get ripped off by the banks, there is misselling of anything from pensions, mortgage protection, product protection, driven by fear and other deception into the hands of rogues. Now care homes are mere cash machines for the few. All under the watchful eyes of and supported by each mainstream UK political party and it gets called enterprise and entrepeneurship.
Tory, Labour, Lib Dem, they all play the same game, milk the same cows, create the same bogeymen and laugh all the way to the same bailed out banks.
Too true! If we`re not scared, we don`t need `em.
If the costs of doing business rise for any reason, these costs are passed on to the consumers. When consumers do not buy the products at the new higher prices, the business fails. If a business does not want to fail, it must find an environment that does not have the costs that make its product undesirable. If companies can’t make a profit, investors will pull their money out of those companies and put their money in companies that will.
If a corporation is greedy ie it charges more for its products than they are worth, people simply do not buy the product, because they have a choice. Choices to make an exchange of money are made on the basis that consumers are better off with the product than they are with the money it takes to buy it. Greedy corporations are only a problem when government requires you to buy their product at their price regardless of value to the consumer. Think Obamacare. The insurance companies love it. Consumers not so much. Boeing did not like the costs of doing business in Washington state in the USA, so it built a plant in South Carolina where labor costs were cheaper. In that case, the power of the unions in Washington state was the determining factor. Climate regulation has the same effect, and not only will businesses leave the UK or any other country that imposes higher energy costs, but there will be no new business development either. No company in its right mind is going to develop in a country where it is guaranteed to fail.
If you wonder where the jobs went, the answer is somewhere else, and until it becomes cost effective to do increased business there, those jobs will stay gone. So people will have to go where the jobs are, accept less pay, or create their own jobs by creating value and selling it on the open market. Or they might elect people who make it easier for businesses to make money by hiring local talent rather than more difficult. The sad thing about the UK is that the CO2 push they are engaged in is based on faulty science AND the fact that their contribution to CO2 reduction is so insignificant as to have essentially no effect on the final outcome even if the CAGW advocates were right. The UK seems to have a martyr complex wherein it will valiantly die for the cause. There are causes worth dying for, but CAGW isn’t one of them.
Justa Joe says:
June 13, 2011 at 6:43 am
Now all we need are a bunch PATCO diehards (Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization) to come in and give a lecture on how Reagan “wrecked” the country.
banjo says …Why,that would be pure invention wouldn`t it?
That Margaret Thatcher did indeed start the politicisation of cagw isn`t.
Just in case you missed it.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1xqo1_part-04-la-grde-arnaque-du-rechauff_tech
OK thanks, i’ll try again.
At the start of the current economic crisis it was identified that the UK wouol have to go from a public sector economy to a more private sector economy to help the debt in this country but with these green taxes (Hidden mostly from the general Sheeple) and the high prices they bring the UK economy is on a knife edge and i’m no economist btu anything that is as negative to industry as the Cliamte Change act cannot be a good thing.
Although I’m sure the political elite will simply say that the green jobs that have been promised us will more than make up for any industry that quit’s the UK in the next couple of years. Or we can simply keep borrowing (Don’t expect the self-servantives, Non-Labour or Lib-Debts to stop borrowing) till the country goes bust.
tallbloke says:
June 13, 2011 at 4:55 am
Cassie King says:
June 13, 2011 at 3:15 am
The UK social democrat regime seems utterly determined to destroy whats left of British wealth creating industry
You are referring to our current coalition government, the senior partner in which is Margaret Thatchers very own Conservative party, which is still pushing the same global warmist agenda she set.
Sorry to intrude on your stereotyping, as you were.
The current coalition regime is not right wing, it is what can only be described as a social democrat regime in terms of its aversion to right wing politics, its support for social democrat politics, its centrist verging on leftist policies. Under the new dual leadership of Cameron and Clegg we see a new labour style love of presentation politics, a love of half baked social philanthropic virtues in the gigantic funding of foreign aid which would be no concern to us if they were footing the bill, its obedience to the EU monster, its hatred of big heavy industries, its love of the modern chattering classes latest fashionable bleeding ecofascist NWO heart on sleeve causes. The regime of Cameron is not right wing, it is not even vaguely right wing anymore, it is a high tax elitist establishment pro EU dead left of dead centre party. A parasite supporting party of high taxes and high spending and eye watering borrowing. I do not recognize any of the values of the right in the coalition social democrat regime now in power in the UK, a PM that is proud to see himself as the successor to Phony Bliar. This PM has chosen his side, and chosen his allies and they are not right wing friends or right wing allies, the man like his coagulation of a party are as fake as a North Korean made Rolex.
Epigenes says:
June 13, 2011 at 5:55 am
I was actually under the impression that this blog was about ………
================================================
Epi……. This blog is about learning and exchanging thoughts and ideas. Yes, the theme is decidedly about CAGW….or whatever, but the spectrum of topics range far and wide. One of the beautiful things about this blog is correcting misconceptions. Now, I wouldn’t thought it so difficult to discern, but some people’s beliefs blind them often. A moniker like Tall Bloke, Bloke being a term that isn’t often used in the states, one could have concluded TB was not American. But then, many are under the impression that skepticism is simply American right wing cause, championed by Fox news and Rush. Just to clear things up, skepticism is a world-wide view, while the right of American politics is decidedly skeptical,(Left/Right/Conservative/Liberal carry different meanings to different people) it isn’t the impetus nor force behind the skepticism. If one were to read or even just skim the archives of this blog, you’d see an international thrust to the articles. Many readers here are from countries other than the U.S. And, those countries’ skeptical movements are growing! Hopefully, G.B. will turn back this wave of insanity in their home. In Australia, the debate is very contentious. Canada’s skeptic camp is undaunted. New Zealand’s is very active. Other places around Europe are seeing the folly of this madness. We’re far from done, but the tide is turning.
UK why not leave the EU? Let them diddle with all this craziness and their socialist, overgoverned, sick economies. They don’t like you anyway. You have an English speaking world to join with all the advantages, resources and markets you could hope for. Oh we can probably eventually even straighten out Australia.
James Sexton
Hear Hear!
@ur momisugly Tallbloke et al: I realise that this is will be unpopular but it is possible to have a quite different perspective of Margaret Thatcher.
At Wiki Ref 1 you will see that polls of 20th century prime ministers generally puts her within the top 5 rankings, in the company of the great wartime leaders such as Lloyd George, Churchill and Atlee.
When Mrs Thatcher was appointed in 1979, British industrial relations were in turmoil – probably as a legacy of Britain having been the first country to industrialise in the 19th century. The country was widely perceived to be in thrall to the trades unions and ungovernable without their approval – in 1974, after the miner’s strike, Ted Heath called an election on the issue “who governs Britain”, and lost. We were then universally referred to as the “sick man of Europe”.
Far from the industrial base being sound this was the era of uncontrolled wildcat strikes, motor industry bailouts (remember British Leyland, and how the British motorcycle industry was simply blown away by Japanese imports?) and further nationalisations (British Steel, British Aerospace etc).
The same applied to the mining industry: at Wiki Ref2 it appears that most (nationalised) pits were unprofitable. It was in fact cheaper to buy coal on the world market to fire our (again nationalised) power stations than buy it at its true cost from British pits – but of course the result would be another miners’ strike and the government of the day falling.
This was Margaret Thatcher’s inheritance – Britain undergoing what was almost a civil war in industrial relations. She fought the war and (as for the Falklands) prevailed – but at cost of the eternal hostility of sections of our society. She did much else in her 11 years as PM (deregulation, privatisations, supply side reforms, the Anglo-Irish agreement to name a few) and generally made Britain governable again, reducing public sector expenditure to about 40% of GDP. And while she had initial concerns over CO2 theory, she ultimately adopted a sceptical view.
I think you will find the historical perspective of Mrs Thatcher will continue in line with the 20th century polls I referred to above – one of the great 20th century British PMs.
Cassie King says:
June 13, 2011 at 8:01 am
The current coalition regime is not right wing, it is what can only be described as a social democrat regime in terms of its aversion to right wing politics, its support for social democrat politics, its centrist verging on leftist policies. Under the new dual leadership of Cameron and Clegg we see a new labour style love of presentation politics, a love of half baked social philanthropic virtues in the gigantic funding of foreign aid which would be no concern to us if they were footing the bill
I didn’t say it was right wing, I said it’s senior partner was the self same Conservative party which under Margaret Thatcher started the global warming scare and is still perpetuating it. Incidentally it is also the same Conservative party which took us into the E.U. in 1973, a move opposed by the Labour Party at the time, before it fell victim to careerist politicians like Tory Blair (Who is now an E.U. bigwig).
The UK’s careerist politicians are a set of lying, thieving, carpet bagging self-servatives who need lobbing out of the windows of Parliament into the river Thames. In my opinion.
It matters little what tallbloke or any of us say here or who we blame years ago – the FACT is a shot has been fired across the bow in Britain. The competitiveness of any company whether it is in Britain/North America/China lies in its ability to compete on a global scale in today’s world. At the heart of today’s businesses energy is the driving factor along with labor costs – when combining the two China and India are head and shoulders above the pack. Moreover, in the west companies have an additional burden – ridiculously dumb green taxes to fund even poorer designed Green government schemes seemingly designed by grade school students with no concept of economies of scale. Now in the case of the EU nations including Britain years of unchecked legal and illegal immigration have indeed delivered a death blow to already fragile economies stretching even more fragile social programs to the breaking point throughout the entire EU world. Surely sane governments would at least recognize how fragile their national economies are especially with this long recession pushing EU nations into bankruptcy or near the bankruptcy points. Surely this is not the point any sane government would dump a completely illogical Green tax on its own fragile economy struggling to recover in a zone of too many failing nations – perhaps other than Germany. Ross Perot here in North America who said: “You sign NAFTA and you’ll hear a giant sucking sound of jobs leaving the country.” And he was correct – just a few figures facts to make the point.
“1,100 FULL TIME JOBS LOST TO MEXICO, WHIRLPOOL LEAVING EVANSVILLE”
“LAKE MILLS, Iowa — Cummins Filtration in Lake Mills, Iowa, announced plans to cut about 400 jobs at the Lake Mills plant and shift them to San Luis Potosi, Mexico.”
“On July 1, Electrolux opened its new plant in Juarez, Mexico. It is one of two plants expected to take over production when the company closes the world’s largest refrigerator factory in Greenville early next year. The other is in Anderson, S.C.
Electrolux’s shutdown of the Greenville plant at 635 W. Charles St. will leave more than 2,700 people without jobs.”
“Eyewitness News is investigating vanishing jobs in the Triangle area. We’ve discovered 2007 is shaping up to be a bad year for people in the Triangle. By analyzing a state employment database, we’ve discovered that nearly a thousand people are losing their jobs to Mexico.”
“As part of the restructuring, Avon has apparently decided that moving jobs to Mexico will save them a ton of money. Avon Products will eliminate 1,200 positions — 2.8 percent of its overall work force — by 2013 as part of a reorganization.”
“Hershey to Cut 1,500 Jobs, Open Mexico Facility”
“On Tuesday, United Auto Workers (UAW) officials announced that auto parts-maker American Axle will close its Detroit-Hamtramck factory—the largest of its US facilities—and lay off between 500 and 600 workers. UAW officials claim these jobs are being moved to Mexico.”
“Honeywell International Inc. is planning to move 5,000 aerospace division jobs offshore over the next five years, according to internal documents that outline the company’s global development strategy.”
“Trade hawks hunting for the corporate villains behind the flight of U.S. manufacturing jobs to Mexico might find General Electric a handy target.
In the 14 years since the North American Free Trade Agreement dismantled most barriers to trade and investment between the U.S., Canada, and Mexico, GE has sent thousands of U.S. jobs making everything from refrigerators to electric meters to Mexico.”
THe warnings Brits have been given is real – if green idiocy makes industry uncompetitive Britain too will hear a GIANT SUCKING SOUND of jobs leaving their nation. Ignore the warning at your own peril. We did and we all lost here in North America.
banjo says …Why,that would be pure invention wouldn`t it?
That Margaret Thatcher did indeed start the politicisation of cagw isn`t.
Just in case you missed it.
Actually I am well aware of M. Thatcher’s involvement with the nascent politicisation of CAGW. While her involvement with CAGW was regrettable blaming Thatcher for the demise of British industry as a whole is WAY overstated. From my recollection the UK economy was in trouble pre-Thatcher, and the commie infested Coal unions were about to push the UK economy over the brink. On the whole since she was also involved with the de-socialization and privatization of businesses in the UK her legacy must be considered positive.
Justa Joe says:
June 13, 2011 at 8:26 am
While her involvement with CAGW was regrettable blaming Thatcher for the demise of British industry as a whole is WAY overstated. From my recollection the UK economy was in trouble pre-Thatcher, and the commie infested Coal unions were about to push the UK economy over the brink. On the whole since she was also involved with the de-socialization and privatization of businesses in the UK her legacy must be considered positive.
“Regrettable”
Lolz
As a matter of fact Joe, I had a share in those industries before Thatcher and her pirate gang stole them and offered to sell my share back to me. She was not the paragon of laissez faire virtue my American friends think she was. She was just an ignorant grocer’s daughter used by her husband and his influential friends to steal from the public purse and promote the financial hocus pocus they were invested heavily into. The union members knew this and were trying to head her off at the pass when she put army personnel into police uniforms to beat the crap out of them. I know. I was there.
Irrespective of Margaret Thatchers achievements (and there were many) .
Her greatest mistake was using a relatively new and untried science to frighten voters into accepting the demise of the coal industry and its unions.
This fact does not alter my political views. (that politicians are generally sharp suited, self serving b [self snip]ds.
A curse on all their houses!
I’ve always been a bit confused about the UK. Think about it. They invented the digital computer, the jet engine, the programming language, made some of the best motorcycles in the world, has a centuries long tradition of tradesman/craftsmanship… Yet time and again some other country has “picked up the ball and run with it.” Trying to explain why is beyond me, but the number of examples is too vast for it to not have some sort of endemic/systemic cause.
A lot of ‘Thatcher destroyed British industry’ here, but I remember the other side of the coin, the situation pre-Thatcher was unsustainable and much of what Thatcher did was recognise the inevitable. The nationalised coal industry was digging deep-mined coal at substantially higher cost than open-cast could be imported from Poland or Australia, and in any case, electricity generation was moving to natural gas which was much cheaper. British steel was burning tons of this expensive coal to make steel which no one wanted so was just stockpiled (I recall that this was the first company to be making regular losses of over one million pounds a day), and British shipyards had huge capacity but no market in a world with a huge excess of shipping capacity. The motor and aircraft industries were fatally wounded long before Thatcher, hugely oversized, overmanned, badly managed and contraction was inevitable. Industrial relations were appalling, with many companies continually crippled by strikes despite facing serious problems in the marketplace. To blame Thatcher for the demise of British industry is silly- she just cut out a lot of the dead wood and unfortunately there wasn’t much left. Perhaps more could have been done to encourage ‘high-tech’ industries, but to suggest that Thatcher was a mindless wrecker motivated solely by the desire to break the trade unions is just wrong.
TomB says:
June 13, 2011 at 8:41 am
I’ve always been a bit confused about the UK. Think about it. They invented the digital computer, the jet engine, the programming language, made some of the best motorcycles in the world, has a centuries long tradition of tradesman/craftsmanship… Yet time and again some other country has “picked up the ball and run with it.” Trying to explain why is beyond me, but the number of examples is too vast for it to not have some sort of endemic/systemic cause.
Inept management and greed for the fast buck.
Wil June 13, 2011 at 8:25 am
Wil, you are absolutely right but your wisdom is far greater than that of successive British governments that have created a land where housing is massively expensive because of massive amounts of credit which had the effect of pushing money up to the already rich. So now an average person is approaching 40 before thay can afford to get on the housing ladder so it is inevitable there is demand for high wages.
We’ve already heard the giant sucking sound, except it was a blowing sound with British industrial jobs being offshored years ago under the pretence of creating a higher value UK sevice sector which produces little tangible and is itself in the process of going off shore.
While we should be ascending Maslow’s Hierarchy of needs, British governments seem to be intent on trying to force descent through debt and massive unemployment amongst the young while repeating a mantra that everyone must work for longer.
Google and ye shall recieve.
Part one of a series exploring the history of the people and ideas behind what became known as Thatcherism
tallbloke says:
June 13, 2011 at 5:00 am
Maybe if we cut politicians by 50% we wouldn’t have these problems..
ABRIDGE, v.t. To shorten. When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for people to abridge their king, a decent respect for the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation. –Oliver Cromwell
from Ambrose Bierce The Devil’s Dictionary