Steve McIntyre at ClimateAudit has written another essay on the poor way that CRU/UEA and NOAA have dealt with FOIA requests. To say “poor”, that means in some cases “not at all”. He makes this salient point:
…if the climate community wants to get the Climategate affair behind them, the best course of action for them is to voluntarily get any and all documents pertaining to the events on the public record, rather than contesting the production of each and every document. If a NOAA scientist is in possession of documents that have been destroyed by CRU scientists, NOAA should find out precisely what their employees have and voluntarily put it in the public domain.
Indeed. Eventually all of this will come out. You may as well get it out now and get it over with. Full essay here at ClimateAudit
Oakden Wolf says:
March 13, 2011 at 5:58 am
Climategate is no longer a major issue to most of the public. It’s primarily important to the skeptical side who keep bringing it up to cast doubt on the findings of mainstream climate science.
Oakden – you do not appear to have read what has happened.
Either a parliamentary enquiry has been lied to by Lord Acton -or- the Information Commissioner has been lied to by the University of East Anglia (I believe this is a criminal offence).
Now you may accept Universities and their representatives being dissemblers – but it would seem to me that any establishment that cannot be trusted should firstly, have all government funded research and contracts (both US and UK) stopped; and secondly, all accreditation for provision of degrees should be immediately withdrawn from the University. Then when their minds were a little more focused, they could decide which of them were telling the truth. The one that was untruthful could then face the consequences.
Charles S. Opalek, PE says:
March 13, 2011 at 5:28 am
“If their work is sound, what possible fear could they have of exposure?”
Well take the GISTEMP Y2K error for example. Or the error where GISTEMP got November wrong because the data had carried over from October. In both cases the errors and correction had insignificant impact on global temperature. In other sciences these errors would have corrected and work goes on.
But in both the above cases the scientists were smeared and great effort went into producing a grand narrative that the errors were deliberate and that the errors had a massive and important effect. Media stories appeared. That would never happen for another science.
And that’s why one reason why scientists are reluctant to be open, because some things that are otherwise irrelevant can be span against them.
“Climategate is no longer a major issue to most of the public. It’s primarily important to the skeptical side who keep bringing it up to cast doubt on the findings of mainstream climate science.”
–Oakden Wolf
No, you are incorrect. That is simply not the case, as you could plainly see if you’ve read any of the real meat of the FOIA discussions.
The purpose of the FOIA requests and reviews of the Climategate emails is to provide the root science behind the claims and papers presented by “mainstream climate science” (if there is such a thing). Once the raw data and methodology is in hand, then it can be determined that the science is, or is not, correct as presented. All that’s asked for is the truth.
Why do you have a problem with that?? Are you afraid that we’ll see behind the curtain and discover the “mainstream climate science” to be a humbug?
We don’t mind being “wrong”, as long as it’s unpolluted science we’re being fed.
Oakden Wolf says:
March 13, 2011 at 5:58 am
What is very much this March in the public’s eye is the economy. That is number one. How the government spends its tax money is number one. The fact that we get 50% of our energy source from abroad is number one. The fact that we subsidize undeserving, pie-in-the-sky “alternate energy” scams to the tune of hundreds of billions, is number one.
The Representatives and Senators are the ones who represent the people, and they are the ones who must insure that the people’s money is spent wisely. Climategate is one of the forefront issues, if not the most important act of malfeasance, that typify the waste and fraud that left-wing alarmist eco-perpetrators have been allowed to carry on in this and past administrations. And, for the public’s sake, the cAGW hoaxers have to be brought to task and punished, as they have contributed the most to our current state of the economy, i.e., our precarious energy position, which has made our economy deteriorate so fast.
It will never be behind us. They can have the emails behind them when they pry them from our ‘cold’ dead fingers.
Or until those scientists behind the false science, scare tactics, and policy manipulation are taken to task publicly and grant money forfeited. Oh yeah, and I also want Gore and the IPCC to give back the peace prize and pay back the prize money at 5% interest per year. And the Gore movie to be always placed in the fiction section at movie stores. And maybe one line of Government Motors (GM) 4×4 SUV V8 with honkin tires to be named the Al Gore Edition.
Then i might be able to forgive and forget… HOBO
For people who publicly espouse scientific and political beliefs 24/7, this CRU seems strangely reticent to share.
To Oakden Wolf, you say climategate is no longer a major issue to the general public. You are right it is not; nor is climate science in general. Most folks have more pressing needs that they worry about. However, start passing laws and instituting policies that make everything they buy more expensive while making the companies they work for less competitive and the interest in climate science and climategate will skyrocket. Just look at the hornet’s nest stirred up in Australia over carbon taxes. You don’t really know how people feel about something until you ask them to spend money on it.
Oakden Wolf says:
March 13, 2011 at 5:58 am
“Climategate is no longer a major issue to most of the public. It’s primarily important to the skeptical side who keep bringing it up to cast doubt on the findings of mainstream climate science.”
Get the message to Congress, quickly. The House has voted to remove EPA’s power to regulate CO2 and voted to defund EPA. The House and the Senate told “Cap’n Trade” to take a walk last year.
A question for the occasional warmist posting on WUWT, or for warmists anywhere – what on Earth is wrong with this and why are you all so strongly opposed to this concept?
“if the climate community wants to get the Climategate affair behind them, the best course of action for them is to voluntarily get any and all documents pertaining to the events on the public record, rather than contesting the production of each and every document”
DEEBEE says:
March 13, 2011 at 5:01 am
“…”
Um… did you really mean to leave that “f” out? The sentence works well either way… and I tend to agree most strongly with the non “f” version.
😀
Latitude @ur momisugly 5:02 says:
Well you quoted it, because this isn’t science. As a model it is far closer to what you expect from any special interest group or lobbying organization.
“Climategate is no longer a major issue to most of the public. It’s primarily important to the skeptical side who keep bringing it up to cast doubt on the findings of mainstream climate science.”
The reasons is it’s not a major issue with the public are complex. First off, the public, by and large have no interest in the great CAGW scare, they are assuming that the scientists have it right and that the politicians will do something about it. They have to wake up to the fact that the “something” will have devastating effects on their way of life and their children’s future, as a Green agenda is forced on every household in the land regardless of economic costs. When they do, the Greens are doomed, which presumably is why there is a widespread desire among senior green activists like Hansen to dispense with democracy to tackle this problem.
The other reason is of course that the MSM almost completely ignored the story and the establishment kicked in with whitewashes galore. So you’re right only the sceptics are interested in getting the truth out to the public. Do you see anything wrong with that?
Yes Oakden, it must be mighty annoying that something
hoped forprayed for by the perpetrators would be a short lived phenomenon just wont go away, grows wings and flys around dropping golden eggs on we few sceptics.You are correct. It is the main reason we laugh at claims such as “… the findings of mainstream climate science.” Oh how we laugh. Until we see our energy bills. Our food bills. Our fuel bills. Our water bills. Our children’s clothes/school/shoes bills.
Oh and; Our landscapes. Our society. Our future. Our prosperity.
All messed up because of “… the findings of mainstream climate science.” which have
touchedstained everything, diverted funds from stuff that could actually be permanently fixed and fattened the wallets of charlatans, liars and cheats. And will continue to do so unless we few persist in showing the world, one human at a time, that such is the case.DEEBEE says:
March 13, 2011 at 5:01 am
Dragging ones feet is a good trade for these guys as of now. They do not see anything happening to their reputations, except in the “unconvinced” column. Those votes were not to behad anyway.
A large enough shit in opinion against them (I see no hope for that), barring more revelations.
——
REPLYFreudian slip, DB? Works for me!
May we see all you your e-mails?
We keep talking about “Science” requiring access to data and methods, but there is no Science here. Science is all about running and reproducing the results of Experiments. Computer simulations are not experiments. It may have been a while since I received my degree, but I can’t imagine the Scientific Method has changed so much.
The gift that keeps on giving.It takes a while for reality to get our attention, longer if we are paid not to see, but eventually reality is the only place left to go. The CRU emails nailed the nonspecialists attention and the lack of data to support outrageous claims of certainty, denial of the medieval warm period, denial of the historic cycles of weather, the science is settled meme and the most obnoxous demonising of inquiring minds. Yes the team is right they have a messaging problem, steady streams of verbal diarrhea are indigestable to most sane folk. Phil Jones testimony was enough to deflate this CAWG nonsense, but as it is now officially a religious matter no amount of emperical data will change the underlying science. A very true statement especially if there never was actual science to support the belief.
Climategate is a slow motion train wreck for acedemia, the rational members have seen the problem for future science and funding, but will wait for the proper authorities to correct the errors and ethical morass that was revealed. Now that the institutions have ignored or aggravated the percieved mess by claiming to have investigated (by not looking at the evidence) the ethical members of acedemia must now act on their own. I predict interesting days ahead and the credibility of taxpayer funded science and hence funding hangs in the balance.
So at least we can all agree that climate scientists are “reluctant to be open”.
Of course, one then has to ask why they think it is more in their interest to be “reluctant to be open” than it is to address their mistakes head on.
Putting themselves in a position where everything oozes out in little dribs and drabs certainly hasn’t helped them any.
Oakden Wolf says:
March 13, 2011 at 5:58 am
Climategate is no longer a major issue to most of the public.
I don’t think Climategate was ever much on the radar of the general public. Firstly, the issues and implications would be hard to understand if you were not a follower of the climate saga. Secondly, most of the MSM ignored or devoted minimal coverage to it. That being said, Climategate still shows that it is consequential when AGW proponents such as Richard Muller and Judith Curry have come to decry the behavior of certain individuals of the “team”. My analogy would be that the Climategate pot was never at a boil, but continues to simmer and will so as long as the obfuscation and whitewashing continues. Like a tiny sliver under the skin of science, it will continue to irritate and fester if ignored by the involved parties.
Also fit for the headline, read at the end:
The EESC president’s statement on the natural disaster in Japan and the Pacific region
11
Mar 2011
Speaker: Staffan Nilsson
Organisation: EESC
On behalf of the EESC, I should like to express my sympathy with all the families of the victims in Japan. We stand shoulder to shoulder with all the people now struggling with the unfolding devastating effects of the earthquake in the Pacific region.
The human and material damage is immense, and the EESC members’ thoughts are with the Japanese people and government.
We express our support to our partners in those ACP countries potentially affected by this natural disaster.
This is a time for solidarity, and we urge the EU and other international organisations to provide immediate and appropriate assistance, if needed, to help governments and civil society organisations in the region deal with this tragedy. We also call on humanitarian civil society organisations to react quickly to provide support to Japan and all the other affected countries.
The earthquake and tsunami will clearly have a severe impact on the economic and social activities of the region. Some islands affected by climate change have been hit. Has not the time come to demonstrate on solidarity – not least solidarity in combating and adapting to climate change and global warming? Mother Nature has again given us a sign that that is what we need to do.
Mike says:
March 13, 2011 at 9:39 am
May we see all you your e-mails?
Yes Mike if you pay my salary and for my work.
Pamela Gray says: March 13, 2011 at 6:17 am
This will turn out to be, in every aspect the green campaign’s Watergate. The final chapters will be complete with letters of reprimand, sanctions, firings, and political fallout. It will touch and grind down all those political and private officials attached to this grand campaign, as the VOTING public becomes more and more aware: We have been duped. And on a grander more global scale than missing sections on a tape, and fingerprints on an office doorknob.
—————————————————————
Pamela Gray – Yeah but – the pollies still grind the public down with their ‘green’ policies and taxes – UK with its subsidized windmills and the EU totally wedded to co2 reduction. It will take hell to freeze over to shake these Fwits out of this lunacy. But maybe the financial crash there will happen soon to concentrate their minds. Wishful thinking?
Douglas
vindsavfuktare says:
March 13, 2011 at 10:18 am
I think this Nilsson character needs someone to give him a good kick up the backside! Such a blatant misuse of others gross misfortune to promote their own agenda is definately not acceptable behaviour!
Mike says:
March 13, 2011 at 9:39 am
May we see all you your e-mails?
All you will find are the frustrating attempts to get a hold of the raw original data, for my own self funded independent research, in order to find the truth on how the weather and climate works.
Harry Dale Huffman says: March 13, 2011 at 6:38 am
The political process, of legislating a “climate policy”, needs to be stopped dead in its tracks, worldwide. And no one can breathe easily until the basic science has been corrected, and the malediction of yet another generation of scientists and the public has been cut off and reversed.
Will we leave this problem to the next generation
————————————————————————–
The hubris that lies behind the ‘climate science’ is eclipsed by that which drives the policies of governments. And all that is trumped by that which lead to the collapse of the financial system lead by Greenspan, Rubin, Levitt and Summers. According to Brooksley Born, it seems that the lessons of the past have still not been learned and/or the remedies put into place. I notice that the governor of the Bank of England Merv King, is proposing reforms to manage the calamity that has overtaken that currency but is vehemently opposed by the same clique of bankers who want to keep playing at the casino. To my mind, these two issues are linked by the hubris and arrogance that drives them. Both are leading the world to a parlous condition of poverty and discontent. It has to be sorted now and not left to the next generation.
Douglas