I own an electric car (on my second one now) that I use for around town. It’s fine for short jaunts, which is the majority of driving. However the limiting factor is of course the battery and the range associated with it. While I can get about 40 miles of city driving, I could probably double that with a lighter, more efficient battery. While I know some people pooh-pooh electric cars, I think mine is rather fun. With gas prices headed toward $5 a gallon, I’ll have even more fun.
My electric car, shown above – a bit like a “smart car”, but slightly larger. My first was little more than a glorified golf cart. This one is full featured.
From the American Chemical Society
New high-performance lithium-ion battery ‘top candidate’ for electric cars
Scientists are reporting development of an advanced lithium-ion battery that is ideal for powering the electric vehicles now making their way into dealer showrooms. The new battery can store large amounts of energy in a small space and has a high rate capacity, meaning it can provide current even in extreme temperatures. A report on this innovation appears in ACS’ Journal of the American Chemical Society.
Bruno Scrosati, Yang-Kook Sun, and colleagues point out that consumers have a great desire for electric vehicles, given the shortage and expense of petroleum. But a typical hybrid car can only go short distances on electricity alone, and they hold less charge in very hot or very cold temperatures. With the government push to have one million electric cars on U.S. roads by 2015, the pressure to solve these problems is high. To make electric vehicles a more realistic alternative to gas-powered automobiles, the researchers realized that an improved battery was needed.
The scientists developed a high-capacity, nanostructured, tin-carbon anode, or positive electrode, and a high-voltage, lithium-ion cathode, the negative electrode. When the two parts are put together, the result is a high-performance battery with a high energy density and rate capacity. “On the basis of the performance demonstrated here, this battery is a top candidate for powering sustainable vehicles,” the researchers say.
The authors acknowledge funding from WCU (World Class University) program through the Korea Science and Engineering Foundation.
ARTICLE FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE “An Advanced Lithium Ion Battery Based on High Performance Electrode Materials”
DOWNLOAD FULL TEXT ARTICLE http://pubs.acs.org/stoken/presspac/presspac/full/10.1021/ja110522x
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Is it true that whenever you charge and then discharge a battery you loose 50% of the energy in waste? Something to do with the theory of capacitors if I remember correctly.
If so then, in getting the energy into that battery presumably there are many capacitors along the way from the source (likely to be a coal plant?) there must be a lot of waste. Four capacitors lose about 80% of the energy.
Just wondering how it compares to using petrol in terms of efficiency. It still has the advantage that all the pollution can be dealt with in one place (the power station and battery manufacture/disposal) rather than us breathing in all the toxins which come out of a petrol exhaust pipe.
Sure it might me cheaper per mile for the end user, but that is likely due to some kind of subsidy somewhere along the line?
Come on guys, let’s not be knee jerk negative, electric cars may well fill a useful niche market one day. Problem is they are almost solution looking for a problem, once one dumps the “CO2” issue. But maybe there is an energy security/peak oil issue in there somewhere. There is certainly a city centre pollution issue, tho’ the very best petrol (gasoline) engines are quite clean I think. Diesels less so, because of particulates, despite filters.
In the UK, electric cars are stupidly expensive at present and seem to have ranges around 80 – 100 miles for the most part, in peak conditions. So, given UK population density, many journeys and much commuting would be in range. Overnight charge from our household 240v 13 A sockets.
Of course, how the elec. is generated is of great importance, depending on the “problem” the cars are meant to solve. One idea is “smart meters” to control when such as cars are charged, so as to cope with variable wind power, but I think that is a green fantasy (and don’t want my elec turned off by some bureaucrat…
As for diesels, UK now has pumps in all petrol stations. I don’t think there are many in the US? hence, also, the popularity of Hybrids. I run a second hand Prius as it happens, and not because of CO2 worries as such.
As always, the right tool for the right job. For your specific needs, an electric car sounds like it would work nicely.
Truthfully, though, I’m thinking we won’t see mass adoption until they get to the point where one can haul 3 kids, a load of groceries, and hockey gear, go a couple hundred km without recharge, and charge in a time comparable to a gas station stop.
Gaining perspective on electric vehicles and the natural resources cliff.
The argument against the electric car is not that we use fossil fuels to charge the batteries from power plants with 30% efficiency and that we need power plants if the big numbers hit the market but the simple fact that we replace fuel tanks with hundreds of pounds of rare metals. Acquiring these metals requires lots of fossil fuels. Green technologies accelerate the consumption of our resources and therfore
green technologies are the opposite from sustainable.
It’s sabotage of our economies masqueraded as a solution for a non existing problem.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/251134-gaining-perspective-on-electric-vehicles-and-the-natural-resource-cliff?source=marketwatch
REPLY: You are completely missing the point, though I think you just like to rant. You need a bumper sticker that says “MY OTHER CAR IS A DUMP TRUCK” or “MY OTHER CAR IS A PICKUP TRUCK”
It is the “other car” thing that bothers me. Why the heck are there so many tax perks so some people can have a second car?
Electric makes sense for some people in some situations. Anthony, I see it makes sense for you. I also see how it makes sense for a celebrity to pull their hybrid out of the driveway where it is parked normally next to their Ferrari, Bentley & BMW when they drive to the red carpet.
Electric second cars are a luxury and taxpayers should not subsidize luxuries.
REPLY: And nobody has subsidized mine or the power it uses – A
Defrost – I did a search on the thread on the word ‘defrost’ and no hits; how’s that (the defroster, you know windshield defroster) working out for you?
Would it melt ice or snow off the windshield like we’ve had in our Texas winter this year (and about the ‘heat’ – the cabin heat that is …)
(You KNOW the question has to be asked!)
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Good for Anthony that he can putter around town in an EV. Not everyone lives in a place where that would be practical. EV’s will not be practical for the average commuter until the cost of gasoline reaches a point where alternatives are economically competitive.
There will always be petroleum available. The problem with oil availability, apart from the obvious political problems in OPEC countries, is that it will get more costly to extract from remaining reservoirs.
So, what should we be doing? Collectively, we should do nothing! Entrepreneurs are working on dozens of gas vehicle and gasoline alternatives right now.
The problem will take care of itself if we let economics take its natural course.
Let the cost of oil and gasoline keep rising, and you will see these alternatives. If EV’s are a decent alternative, where will the additional electricity infrastructure come from? It will be built by the same people who built the existing infrastructure, and that is not the Federal Government. Private companies saw an opportunity for profit, and invested in the future. The same principles apply, today.
Everything will work out in the long run. The short run is the biggest problem, and we cannot control that, anyway.
“Bruno Scrosati, Yang-Kook Sun, and colleagues point out that consumers have a great desire for electric vehicles, given the shortage and expense of petroleum.”
I think this statement is well bunkum. Consumers don’t have a “great desire for electric vehicles”. It is an option that is open and for some vehicles federeally subsides ie the Volt with $7500 tax incentive.
The shortage of oil is in question. We don’t know how much is out there to claim there is a shortage. The shortage of gas is govenment caused.
As for the expense that is again govenment caused. (Not necessarily our gov.) Added taxes, restricted drilling, etc drives up price. Now if Qaddafi went quietly the price of oil would not have shot up so again a government cause.
We have a almost inexhaustible supply of natural gas on and off shore. Shale gas and methane hydrates can fuel us for 1000 years.
But the bottom line most of what we are doing with EV’s etc is being driven by the false claim of GW by CO2.
>>Richard111 says: February 23, 2011 at 10:18 am
>>Well said there, Ralph. Why hasn’t there been an analysis of the current
>>UK vehicle numbers and the power they use? Fuel supply companies should
>>be able to provide that figure without counting vehicles. Then figure out how
>>much electicity will be needed to equal that consumption.
There is a figure here, but it is for ALL transport.
http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.berr.gov.uk/files/file11250.pdf
This report says that transport represents 26% of all UK energy usage (fig 1.4), while only 9% of all energy usage is supplied by electricity (fig 1.2).
If we assume that half of this transport energy requirement is for road vehicles (as opposed to sea, air and train), then we will require another 13% of total energy supply to be electric, to supply all these new electric road vehicles. Thus we shall need to multiply the current number of power stations by 2.5, if we wish to go towards all electric road vehicles.
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What we need is an induction system so an electric can pick up energy from the roadway. Then you only need the batteries to get out of your driveway.
I’m an AGW skeptic, but would also like to see evolution toward resource-preserving technologies that leave as much as possible for future generations. But not by means of campaigns of lies and deception.
I find this interesting: http://automobiles.honda.com/fcx-clarity/ (hydrogen fuel cell)
Unfortunately the best way to obtain hydrogen is catalytic cracking of fossil fuels; and the huge expense of creating a refueling infrastructure might make it pointless. Neat tech though.
They make a nice car for around town and the short commute. However, they do have to be a “second car” given the length of time to recharge. I have one. Top speed: 70 mph. Range: 40 mi. Recharge time: 8 hrs 110V, 4 hrs 220V. A non-starter as an only car.
Kudos, Anthony. While I am the perfect candidate, commute-wise, for an electric vehicle, I just can’t justify the additional costs associated with getting one, over an ICE. I considered converting my ’91 323, but the cost was upwards of $10k, it would take me nearly 80k miles just to break even, and that’s with gas at $4.50/gal.
I’ve also looked at the Brammo electric motorcycle. Their prices have really come down. Thing is both my 323 and my old Nighthawk are paid for, both get better than average mpg; I just can’t justify the cost premium to change over to electric.
Maybe one of those lottery tickets will pay off… ‘course, I suppose I need to buy some first.
Tom Bakewell:
All managed by that dreaded SU electric fuel pump.
I wonder if that was the same pump on the Morris Minor? Had one die on the way home from a visit to Palomar Mountain. We reached the nearest civilization with friend Nancy driving while I hung onto the back bumper blowing into the gas filler tube. Ah, the good old days….
One point no one seems to be making regarding wide adoption of electric vehicles is tax. A large component of the price of gas at the pump is tax. The tax is used (at least in sane states, i.e. not Kalifornia) for road maintenance. The money has to come from somewhere. Also the liberal plan is to artificially inflate the price of power in order to force people to conserve. Its to save the earth you know.
“consumers have a great desire for electric vehicles,”
sorry, thats nonsense. almost nobody want electric cars and thats exactly why there are so few around.
too much sheer propaganda and misinformation around. once government shift taxes from petrol to electricity, and comparing an electric car with a similar IC powered car with comparable (tiny) power and range, electrics lose on all counts.
and anyway, there is no electricity production capacity to power more than a tiny amount of EV. more than that and the grid, already strained to the limit in many countries, will collapse.
What are the charge times like? Say for example you want to go another hundred miles that day, how long would it take to put enough charge in the batteries?
I was looking at global lithium supply and found this link: http://www.torquenews.com/119/plenty-zinc-supplies-could-replace-lithium-batteries. Turns out zinc-air batteries could be the coming thing. More power and more USA sourcing.
Lithium is abundant in supply, but often in very low concentrations, meaning large-cale mining projects = lots of CO2 and environmental destruction.
There are some deposits, here and there, but they tend to be small in size and located in other countries, i.e. more foreign dependency.
I bet when a complete life-time analysis is done, these little lectric cars with huge batteries are likely hardly better for the environment than cars powered on fossil fuels. They may be worse.
Face it, it’s going to cost.
Still waiting for an electric car that appeals to me. I once hoped that they would be available about ten years ago, but it still looks at least another ten years away. My list of requirements include 300 horsepower, 300 ft-lbs torque (momentary), with continuous hp of about 40, 150 mile range with heater and air conditioner running (a requirement here in the moist Pacific Northwest), heated seats, etc.
In other words, an electric car has to be better, in all aspects, than an internal combustion automobile to get me to switch. Once that threshold has passed, count me in!
I’m not saying research shouldn’t be done. But we should be careful about ramming them down people’s throats. These things have a way of turning into debacles.
Just one fly in the soup. The key compound is Lithium.
Don’t the Chinese have a near monopoly on this?
Guess where these batteries will be made?
They will use industrial processes powered by “dirty” coal stations that would have been shut years ago in the West and exported 1000s of miles to the “environmentally”aware Western consumer.
Am I the only one who thinks this is farcical?
Good for you Anthony.
I don’t know why hybrids are always made with the IC engine built-in. People don’t need more than a 50 mile range for most days. To go on the occasional longer trip I like the idea of having a small diesel powered generator that is attached as a trailer. Possibly rented. Not my idea: I saw pictures of a very nice implementation of this by some Australian.
I still have hopes for the EESU ultra-capacitor made by EEStor. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EEStor (has some errors)
A 52kW unit is supposed to weigh 336lb and be 13.5 x 13.5 x 11 inches.
Not only that, it can be fully charged in 3 – 6 minutes, has a virtually unlimited life and a negligible leakage rate.
Unfortunately for us, EEStor is a private company and it seems impossible to get information about progress. It is already several years late on delivery than inferred by founder Dick Weir, but the Canadian company Zenn is banking their future on it surfacing this year.
As to the cost and pollution of the electric power required for EVs, the problem would go away if America would only start building liquid fluoride thorium reactors (LFTRs). The technology has been proven, they are fail safe and should produce electricity at a couple of cents/kW if the lawyers can be kept at bay. They produce <1% of the radwaste of current reactors and could even eat the radwaste those dinosaurs produce.
Millions of EVs with EESUs could be connected to the grid when not in use for load leveling.
Lithium is used for treating manic episodes in patients with bipolar disorder. It is also used to reduce the frequency and decrease the severity of manic episodes in patients with bipolar disorder.
Sorry, this post is not about AGW.
For example, the Nissan Leaf will take eight hours to charge with a 240-volt charger that will cost customers $2,200 to install. The fully charged car can drive about 100 miles, Nissan says, though it may go fewer depending on air temperature, speed and other factors.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704654004575517891616896222.html
I do not understand. It is not Plug and Play.
Neodymium
@juanslayton
Jags and Rovers had the horrid SU electric fuel pumps as well. One could get a replacement points kit, but it had seven sets of adjustments and they all interacted (poorly) with each other. I used a string tied to the points to get home once. I’d jerk it every few seconds and the pump would twig along for a few more strokes. How Britain ever successfully motorized is a mystery to me.