Do solar scientists STILL think that recent warming is too large to explain by solar activity?

 

Guest post by Alec Rawls

Study of the sun-climate link was energized in 1991 by Friis-Christensen and Lassen, who showed a strong correlation between solar-cycle length and global temperature:

This evidence that much of 20th century warming might be explained by solar activity was a thorn in the side of the newly powerful CO2 alarmists, who blamed recent warming on human burning of fossil fuels. That may be why Lassen and Thejll were quick to offer an update as soon as the 1997-98 El Nino made it look as if temperatures were suddenly skyrocketing:

The rapid temperature rise recently seems to call for a quantitative revisit of the solar activity-air temperature association …

We conclude that since around 1990 the type of Solar forcing that is described by the solar cycle length model no longer dominates the long-term variation of the Northern hemisphere land air temperature.

In other words, there was now too much warming to account for by solar cycle length, so some other factor, such as CO2, had to be driving the most recent warming. Of course everyone knew that the 1998 warming had actually been caused by ocean oscillations. Even lay people knew it. (El Nino storm tracks were all the news for six months here in California.)

When Lassen was writing his update in mid ’99, temperatures had already dropped back to 1990 levels. His 8 year update was outdated before it was published. 12 years later the 2010 El Nino year shows the same average temperature as the ’98 El Nino year, and if post-El Nino temperatures continue to fall off the way they did in 99, we’ll be back to 1990 temperatures by mid-2011. Isn’t it about time Friis-Cristensen, Lassen and Thejll issued another update? Do they still think there has been too much recent warming to be accounted for by solar activity?

The most important update may be the discovery that, where Lassen and his colleagues found a correlation between the length of a solar-cycle and temperatures over that cycle, others have been finding a much stronger correlation to temperatures over the next cycle (reported at WUWT this summer by David Archibald).

This further correlation has the advantage of allowing us make projections. As Archibald deciphers Solheim’s Norwegian:

since the period length of previous cycle (no 23) is at least 3 years longer than for cycle no 22, the temperature is expected to decrease by 0.6 – 1.8 degrees over the following 10-12 years.

Check out this alarming graphic from Stephen Strum of Frontier Weather Inc:

Lagged solar cycle length and temp, Stephen Strum, Frontier Weather Inc.

The snowed in Danes might like to see these projections, before they bet the rest of their climate eggs on a dangerous war against CO2.

From sins of omission to sins of commission

In 2007, solar scientist Mike Lockwood told the press about some findings he and Claus Frohlich had just published:

In 1985, the Sun did a U-turn in every respect. It no longer went in the right direction to contribute to global warming. We think it’s almost completely conclusive proof that the Sun does not account for the recent increases in global warming.

Actually, solar cycle 22, which began in 1986, was one of the most intense on record (part of the 20th century “grand maximum” that was the most active sun of the last 11 thousand years), and by almost every measure it was more intense than solar cycle 21. It had about the same sunspot numbers as cycle 21 (Hathaway 2006):

Sunspot prediction, NASA-Hathaway, 2006

Cycle 22 ran more solar flux than cycle 21 (via Nir Shaviv):

Cycle 22 was shorter than cycle 21 (from Joseph D’Aleo):

Solar cycle length, from Joseph D'Aleo

Perhaps most important is solar activity as measured (inversely) by the cosmic ray flux (which many think is mechanism by which solar activity drives climate). Here cycle 22 is THE most intense in the 60 year record, stronger even than cycle 19, the sunspot number king. From the Astronomical Society of Australia:

Neutron counts, Climaz Colorado, with sunspots, Univ. of Chicago

Some “U-turn in every respect.”

If Lockwood and Frohlich simply wanted to argue that the peak of the modern maximum of solar activity was between solar cycles 21 and 22 it would be unobjectionable. What difference does it make exactly when the peak was reached? But this is exactly where their real misdirection comes in. They claim that the peak of solar activity marks the point where any solar-climate effect should move from a warming to a cooling direction. Here is the abstract from their 2007 Royal Society article:

Abstract There is considerable evidence for solar influence on the Earth’s pre-industrial climate and the Sun may well have been a factor in post-industrial climate change in the first half of the last century. Here we show that over the past 20 years, all the trends in the Sun that could have had an influence on the Earth’s climate have been in the opposite direction to that required to explain the observed rise in global mean temperatures.

In order to assert the need for some other explanation for recent warming (CO2), they are claiming that near peak levels of solar activity cannot have a warming effect once they are past the peak of the trend—that it is not the level of solar activity that causes warming or cooling, but the change in the level—which is absurd.

Ken Gregory has the most precise answer to this foolishness. His “climate smoothing” graphic shows how the temperature of a heat sink actually responds to a fall-off in forcing:

Gregory, climate smoothing, contra-Lockwood

“Note that the temperature continues to rise for several years after the Sun’s forcing starts to decrease.”

Gregory’s numbers here are arbitrary. It could be many years before a fall off in forcing causes temperatures to start rising. In the case of solar cycle 22—where if solar forcing was actually past its peak, it had only fallen off a tiny bit—the only way temperature would not keep rising over the whole solar cycle is if global temperature had already equilibrated to peak solar forcing, which Lockwood and Frohlich make no argument for.

The obvious interpretation of the data is that we never did reach equilibrium temperatures, allowing grand maximum levels of solar activity to continue to warm the planet until the sun suddenly went quiet. Now there’s an update for Lockwood and Frohlich. How about telling the public when solar activity really did do “U” (October 2005).

Usoskin, Benestad, and a host of other solar scientists also mistakenly assume that temperature is driven by trend instead of level

Maybe it is because so much of the evidence for a sun-climate link comes from correlation studies, which look for contemporaneous changes in solar activity and temperature. Surely the scientists who are doing these studies all understand that there is no possible mechanism by which the rate of change in solar activity can itself drive temperature. If temperature changes when solar activity changes, it is because the new LEVEL of solar activity has a warming or cooling effect.

Still, a remarkable number of these scientists say things like this (from Usoskin et al. 2005):

The long term trends in solar data and in northern hemisphere temperatures have a correlation coefficient of about 0.7 — .8 at a 94% — 98% confidence level. …

… Note that the most recent warming, since around 1975, has not been considered in the above correlations. During these last 30 years the total solar irradiance, solar UV irradiance and cosmic ray flux has not shown any significant secular trend, so that at least this most warming episode must have another source.

Set aside the other problems with Usoskin’s study. (The temperature record he compared his solar data to is Michael Mann’s “hockey stick.”) How can he claim overwhelming evidence for a sun-climate link, while simultaneously insisting that steady peak levels of solar activity can’t create warming? If steady peak levels coincide with warming, it supposedly means the sun-climate link is now broken, so warming must be due to some other cause, like CO2.

It is hard to believe that scientists could make such a basic mistake, and Usoskin et al. certainly have powerful incentive to play dumb: to pretend that their correlation studies are finding physical mechanisms by which it is changes in the level of solar activity, rather than the levels themselves, that drive temperature. Just elide this important little nuance and presto, modern warming gets misattributed to CO2, allowing these researchers to stay on the good side of the CO2 alarmists who control their funding. Still, the old adage is often right: never attribute to bad motives what can just as well be explained by simple error.

And of course there can be both.

RealClimate exchange on trend vs. level confusion

Finally we arrive at the beginning, for me anyway. I first came across trend-level confusion 5 years ago at RealClimate. Rasmus Benestad was claiming that, because post 1960’s levels of Galactic Cosmic Radiation have not been trending downwards, GCR cannot be the cause of post-60’s warming.

But solar activity has been well above historical norms since the 40’s. It doesn’t matter what the trend is. The solar-wind is up. According to the GCR-cloud theory, that blows away the GCR, which blows away the clouds, creating warming. The solar wind doesn’t have to KEEP going up. It is the LEVEL that matters, not the trend. Holy cow. Benestad was looking at the wrong derivative (one instead of zero).

A few months later I took an opportunity to state my rebuttal as politely as possible, which elicited a response from Gavin Schmidt. Here is our 2005 exchange:

Me: Nice post, but the conclusion: “… solar activity has not increased since the 1950s and is therefore unlikely to be able to explain the recent warming,” would seem to be a non-sequitur.

What matters is not the trend in solar activity but the level. It does not have to KEEP going up to be a possible cause of warming. It just has to be high, and it has been since the forties.

Presumably you are looking at the modest drop in temperature in the fifties and sixties as inconsistent with a simple solar warming explanation, but it doesn’t have to be simple. Earth has heat sinks that could lead to measured effects being delayed, and other forcings may also be involved. The best evidence for causality would seem to be the long term correlations between solar activity and temperature change. Despite the differences between the different proxies for solar activity, isn’t the overall picture one of long term correlation to temperature?

[Response: You are correct in that you would expect a lag, however, the response to an increase to a steady level of forcing is a lagged increase in temperature and then a asymptotic relaxation to the eventual equilibrium. This is not what is seen. In fact, the rate of temperature increase is rising, and that is only compatible with a continuing increase in the forcing, i.e. from greenhouse gases. – gavin]

Gavin admits here that it’s the level of solar activity, not the trend in solar activity, that drives temperature. He’s just assuming that grand maximum levels of solar forcing should have bought the planet close to equilibrium temperature before post-80’s warming hit, but that assumption is completely unwarranted. If solar activity is driving climate (the hypothetical that Schmidt is analyzing), we know that it can push temperatures a lot higher than they are today. Surely Gavin knows about the Viking settlement of Greenland.

The rapid warming in the late 90’s could easily have been caused by the monster solar cycle 22 and there is no reason to think that another big cycle wouldn’t have brought more of the same. Two or three more cycle 22s and we might have been hauling out the longships, which would be great. No one has ever suggested that natural warming is anything but benign. Natural cooling bad, natural warming good. But alas, a longer grand maximum was not to be.

Gavin’s admission that it is level not trend that drives temperature change is important because ALL of the alarmist solar scientists are making the trend-level mistake. If they would admit that the correct framework is to look at the level of forcing and the lapse to equilibrium then they would be forced to look at the actual mechanisms of forcing and equilibration, instead of ignoring key forcings on the pretense that steady peak levels of forcing cannot cause warming.

That’s the big update that all of our solar scientists need to make. They need to stop tolerating this crazy charade that allows the CO2 alarmists to ignore the impact of decades of grand maximum solar activity and misattribute the resulting warming to fossil fuel burning. It is a scientific fraud of the most disastrous proportions, giving the eco-lunatics the excuse they need to unplug the modern world.

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Cassanders
January 4, 2011 2:44 am

While Leif probably will scathe me for introducing “unknowns” 🙂 I think it is worthwhile to elaborate a bit on Phlogiston’s point with respect to Oceanic Heat Content.
While the Meridional Ocean Circulation is recognized as having great impact on the distribution of carbon, nutrients, heat(sic) and other substances to the deep-water (http://mgg.coas.oregonstate.edu/~andreas/pdf/S/schmittner07agu_intro.pdf),
I am not aware of many who have considered the possibility for “Climate signals” in the upwelling and old MOC water.
But as the turn-over frequency is up to 1600 years, I do not see any plausiuble reasons why not the positive and negative energy balance in previous warm and cold periods should nor have been preserved in MOC.
Except for the part of MOC related to “freezing out” (which always will be close to -1 to -1.5C) the formation of deep water should be relative to the TS characteristics of the surrounding water.
Cassanders
In Cod we trust

January 4, 2011 3:06 am

Cassanders says:
January 4, 2011 at 2:44 am
……………
see my post
Vuk etc says:
January 4, 2011 at 1:59 am
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2011/01/02/do-solar-scientists-still-think-that-recent-warming-is-too-large-to-explain-by-solar-activity/#comment-565368

January 4, 2011 3:29 am

Cassanders says: “But as the turn-over frequency is up to 1600 years, I do not see any plausiuble reasons why not the positive and negative energy balance in previous warm and cold periods should nor have been preserved in MOC.”
This is not a critique, just a question. How and why would a warm or cold “signal” that has been subducted to depth remain intact for 1600 years?

January 4, 2011 3:48 am

Frank Lansner says: “Bob T… ALL solar graphs shows pretty much the same activity in 2000 as in 1940, so your focus on the outdated Hoyt and Schatten (which we have already discussed in this debate!!) – is not changing anything.”
It’s all in the presentation, Frank. If that’s the only point you were trying to make, then exclude the data in your graph before 1940. Because the Hoyt and Schatten data you’ve used is misleading in the early part of the graph. It catches the eye and makes the viewer believe a correlation existed then, when in reality there was no agreement.
BTW, your posts would be much more believeable if you stopped using the unusual datasets, like National Geographic and your self-assembled proxies–the ones you used in this graph:
http://www.klimadebat.dk/forum/vedhaeftninger/gissdivergence.gif
If you want to be believed, stick to conventional datasets like GISS LOTI, HADCRUT, and NCDC, and present them without the unusual smoothing. Also, the scaling of the different variables that you include on one graph like solar and temperature have to rely on known scaling factors. And again, the other thing that was blatantly misleading in your graph was the comparison of Global data with the other subsets.

January 4, 2011 3:48 am

Vuk etc says:
January 4, 2011 at 1:59 am
Sudden stratospheric warming SSW is regular occurrence in the Arctic, while in the last 50 years occurred only once (2002) in the Antarctica.
Hi Vuk, there was another one I remember last year around August, it was one of the reasons for the smaller ozone hole last year.

Cassanders
January 4, 2011 4:04 am

Tisdale,
You are probably familiar with the essentials, but if not, you will find a “popular” presentation here: http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Water/ocean_heat_storage_transfer.html
I am sure you are also aware of the thermocline in low and mid-lattidude waters (comprising a large chunk of the global water mass) below which the temperature is “rather stable” and varies within a much smaller range (typically 0 -4 C) than the surface. But this relatively small range does not (as far as I understand) preclude a temporal (Hi Leif! :-)) small change to the temperature of the deep water. (The density could be maintained by a simultaneous change in salinity).
My “mental image” of this can be mapped onto the picture of the conveyor belt (url above) as e.g. 200 year “pulse” of relatively warmer deep water. Hence my “thought” of a stored heat pulse “travelling along MOC ” and surfacing some centuries -a millennium later.
If pushed, I might even try a back of the envelope calculation 🙂 Currently I am confident the amount of energy required to heat the deep MOC water say 0.1-0.2 C has a magnitude that could be relevant to the atmosphere.
Cassanders
In Cod we trust

Cassanders
January 4, 2011 4:10 am

Commenting myself:
It is of course the deep water below the thermocline that constitutes a large chunk of the Oceans’ water, not the water in the thermocline itself.
Sorry for the sloppiness.
Cassanders
In Cod we trust

January 4, 2011 4:17 am

Hi Bob
I want you to know, that the image i showed Alec s not part of an article published anywere. It is old, and im aware that the Hoyt and schatten is has a lot of critics etc. Likewise, the old graph showed a “national geographic” and other pre-.1984 data I have digged a lot in since then: http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/the-perplexing-temperature-data-published-1974-84-and-recent-temperature-data-180.php
No, I used that old graph simply because we here talk about the 1940-2000 with stagnating solar activity accompanied by rising temperatures. But If i write a new article on the subject, i would make a new graph using for example Leifs solar curves in stead etc.
In general, many peoble are comparing smaller areas like USA, The Arctic, Greenland etc with solar acitivity. This is normally done because some thinks that these temperature data are simply better than for example an overall global GISS or the like.
I wont be the judge of that here and now, but i have used full-NH data, Proxy data almost global, Glacier data, Sea level data to finally get the impression that any of the ordinary datasources for global data hadcrut, Giss or their “mother” GHCN etc. is not at all robust anough to be used to dismiss the Solar theory.
K.R. Frank

Dave Springer
January 4, 2011 4:32 am

phlogiston says:
January 3, 2011 at 8:32 pm

Brian H says:
January 3, 2011 at 8:18 pm

The 4°C is the densest water. The bottom will always be that temperature unless the whole water column is higher than that.

Actually (sorry to be pedantic) 4C is the density minimum for fresh water but not sea water, where it is close to zero. (Sea ice still floats – it dumps its salt, making surrounding water more salty.) However the deep ocean water asymptotes down to around 2-3 C.

Thanks for pointing that out, Phlogiston. Many people make the mistake of assuming that sea water thermal expansion is the same as freshwater. It isn’t. Seawater exhibits thermal expansion through its entire liquid phase and its freezing point is negative 1.8C at its typical salinity of 35 parts per thousand.
The water below the thermocline isn’t at 3.0C because that’s the temperature of maximum density. It’s at 3.0C because that’s the average surface temperature over an entire glacial cycle. It’s physically impossible for it to be at that temperature for any other reason.
http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Re-St/Sea-Water-Freezing-of.html

January 4, 2011 4:49 am

Frank Lansner says: “I wont be the judge of that here and now, but i have used full-NH data, Proxy data almost global, Glacier data, Sea level data to finally get the impression that any of the ordinary datasources for global data hadcrut, Giss or their “mother” GHCN etc. is not at all robust anough to be used to dismiss the Solar theory.”
No dataset–Land Surface Temperature, Sea Surface Temperature, Lower Troposphere Temperature, Combined Land Plus Sea Surface Temperature, Ocean Heat Content, Sea Level–during that satellite era supports the “Solar theory”, and during the satellite era, the data is “robust enough” to detect it. Have you considered that fact that maybe your “Solar theory” is wrong?

January 4, 2011 4:53 am

Cassanders says: January 4, 2011 at 4:04 am.
I don’t believe you answered my question. How would the pulse remain intact after 1600 years?

January 4, 2011 4:58 am

Hi Geoff:
Yes , I saw your link any particular, I shall look into it, any articles?
Apparently 2002 SSW was something exceptional, if you google :
Antarctic 2002 Sudden stratospheric warming
there are numerous entries and articles for the event.

tallbloke
January 4, 2011 5:25 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 3, 2011 at 6:33 pm
Nope, what drove the Vikings was a steadily deteriorating climate long before the Spoerer, starting already around 1200. http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/lia/end_of_vikings_greenland.html

The Wolf minimum is quite strong in Greenland Be10 as well. Much stronger than Oort. The last marriage which took place in Hvalsey church on Greenland was in 1408. They disappeared after 1480.
http://tallbloke.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/tim-10be.jpg

Cassanders
January 4, 2011 6:00 am

Tisdale,
I would think inertia. To me the idea is in principle not very different from the scenario the authors argue for at the end of this page.
http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Water/ocean_heat_storage_transfer.html
Cassanders
In Cod we trust

January 4, 2011 6:15 am

Hi Bob!
You write: “No dataset–Land Surface Temperature, Sea Surface Temperature, Lower Troposphere Temperature, Combined Land Plus Sea Surface Temperature, Ocean Heat Content, Sea Level–during that satellite era supports the “Solar theory”, and during the satellite era, the data is “robust enough” to detect it. Have you considered that fact that maybe your “Solar theory” is wrong?”
First of all, im thrilled that we can talk about the essentials finally.
Glacier data:
I analysed Oerlemanns glacier data here:
http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/the-warm-glacier-temperature-reconstruction-of-oerlemans-2005-160.php
And I believe this graph tells a story you should not ignore:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/glaciers/Skepticalscience.jpg
summa: Recent data is not showing more heat than 1945-55 data
You have to ignore for example UHI to get the idea that ordinary temperature data is robust.
You should not: http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/urban-heat-island—uhi—a-world-tour-159.php
You have to ignore warming adjustments too to ditch Solar theory using std temperature data.
Sea levels has not accellerated in 2000 compared to 1940:
http://www.globalwarmingart.com/images/0/0f/Recent_Sea_Level_Rise.png
Greenland – where UHI and adjustments are limited – shows approx same temperatures in recen decades as in 1925-47.
In general you can come with studies of recent data where results happens to become more in line with AGW points of view, but thats another story. This you can do on practically all parts of the climate debate: Recent studies that comes after changes of viewpoints by IPCC or NASA tends to support these. You can then coose that this is a freak random coincidence.
Then you came with a comment i need to address. You implied that when I dig into and use older data like “national geographic”, then you suggest that peoble wont “believe me”.
Why do you think we had peoble hacking CRU´s office? Why are there a huge pressure on GISS, NIWA, CRU, the university that holds Manns data etc to release ORIGINAL DATA?? Its because its a widely spread out wish to know how much data has been adjusted!
But I just take the easy way: Data is there right in front of us in the old writings. I have summarized ALL relevant original temperature data of recent temperatures here:http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/the-perplexing-temperature-data-published-1974-84-and-recent-temperature-data-180.php
Bob, its simply your personal opinion, that it is not relevant to work with original non-adjusted data as I do.
You again and again accept blindly what ever comes from CRU, GISS etc is state of the art useful. So it seems.
Bob, your confidence in CRU and GISS data is your business, but you must stop claiming that we all should have your opinions about what data is in fact solid and what is not!! Your opinions are your opinions, no more no less.
Your concern about who will believe what: This is totally wild guessing from your part. I can tell you this: Normally i think hidethe decline has around 5000 hits a day. But in the days when a new article is on, its normally around 30-60000 hits a day. We had all time record of 149.820 hits in one day 18 March 2010, so someone is reading afterall. This happens even though i often simoutaneously publish at Joanne Nova or WUWT. So we dont cry over lack of readers. But if you say they all read our stuff because they dont believe a word … well thats your belief.
K.R. Frank

January 4, 2011 6:22 am

Dr. Svalgaard
Your link
http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/lia/determining_climate_record.html
should cause you some concern. Data for NAP prior 1650 is scarce, but what there is, it tallies nicely with your link’s temperature graph.
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/NAP11-16.htm
Time to think again.

beng
January 4, 2011 6:53 am

Vuk, tallbloke, & others:
Cause & effect. Like they say in politics, follow the money to root out cause and effect — in this case, follow the energy. It’s an unbelievable stretch to say that a minor component (energy-wise) of TSI (UV) that only affects an isolated and tiny (mass-wise) part of the atmosphere (the stratosphere) controls the weather/climate. That’s prb’ly worse than saying a minor change in a trace gas like CO2 controls the climate — at least CO2 & other GHGs have a measurable effect on the radiation properties at the surface.

pochas
January 4, 2011 6:56 am

Most of the argument on this subject assumes instantaneous effect. That is, the effect follows the cause immediately. These arguments are spurious. Before one attempts to analyze one must understand the basic physics no matter how big ones computer. The ocean contains many zones that interact with one another and with the surface. Any useful analysis requires one to accept this fact ab initio. Some posters above do realize this.
One such approach might be the one adopted by John Scott Haldane. Haldane sought to develop a procedure for estimating the blood level of nitrogen in deep sea divers. His approach involved dividing the body into many individual “compartments” and determining the time constants for each. Google “Haldanean.” If you don’t care about the math, read the man’s bio. He was a memorable individual.
Looking at graphs that assume instantaneous effect is a waste of time. The one above that treats solar cycle length vs future temperature change is not; it does not assume instantaneous effect. It is a stab in the right direction.

January 4, 2011 7:34 am

Geoff Sharp says:
January 4, 2011 at 12:31 am
No , I distinctly remember you saying SC24 will not be a grand minimum. It might be worth tracking if I can be bothered.
It probably won’t [although I would like it to]. I might have said that if it becomes like the Dalton, then since the Dalton does not qualify etc. Anyway, it all hinges on L&P, so we’ll have to see if it persists.
Frank Lansner says:
January 4, 2011 at 2:01 am
“THIS is a central part of the discussion. IF the average solar activity was higher 1940-2000 than normal, THEN it is not impossible that we have higher temperatures in 2000 than 1940 due to Solar input.”
There it is again “not impossible”. Be positive if you mean ‘possible’.
The point is that I think 1940-2000 was quite normal. It are the dips [grand minima and smaller ones] that are not ‘normal’
Frank Lansner says:
January 4, 2011 at 2:23 am
And Leif, from you graph, its rather clear that the 1940-2000 general level simply is higher than normal:
http://www.leif.org/research/TSI-recon4.png

And you carefully cherry pick the Figure I use to show that all the old reconstructions are too low before 1945. You should have used:
http://www.leif.org/research/TSI-recon3.png
Bob Tisdale says:
January 4, 2011 at 3:48 am
It’s all in the presentation, Frank.
Indeed.
tallbloke says:
January 4, 2011 at 5:25 am
The last marriage which took place in Hvalsey church on Greenland was in 1408. They disappeared after 1480.
As I said, the Spoerer didn’t do it.
Vuk etc says:
January 4, 2011 at 6:22
should cause you some concern. Data for NAP prior 1650 is scarce
I don’t waste time on NAP.

January 4, 2011 7:35 am

Pochas, exactly, too see a problem in the temp vs. solar activity you have to believe that a raise in temperature cannot dring[?] more decades during unusually strong solar activity.
Bob, Rain.
– a funny/interesting finding from E.M.Smith, the rain also just happens to follow temperatures way back rather well… that is except for the 20 ´century where the “rain-temperature-indicator” just stops to confirm the traditional temp records – Very well spotted by E.M. Smith:
http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/12/10/does-rain-call-giss-liars/
Water…. gate 🙂
And if you check out the water content in in atmosphere well surprise, the water-temp relation ship seems confirmed on the shorter scale, but certainly does not support that 2000 should be very much warmer than 1950 and thus that Solar theory should have problems:
http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/feedback-positive-ndash-rdquowhat-makes-co2-heat-dangerousrdquo-29.php
K.R. Frank

January 4, 2011 7:39 am

Tree rings fail to support strongly rising temperatures too, thus supports Solar theory:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/climategate/MannDeclineALLsmall.jpg
K.R. Frank

January 4, 2011 7:44 am

Corals appear to be warm-temperature-lovers:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/corals%20barrier%20reef/nyc9.jpg
In this example, the Coral “temperature signal” actually shows higher signal recently than 1940, though, but even at the SH in the ocean, we here see an example of strong temperature dive after 1940, and that the rise after 1970 is not extremely much larger than the dive 1940-70 indicating a moderate warmer 2000 than 1940.
this little “coral gate” was taken from:
http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/corals-and-the-great-barrier-reef-43.php

January 4, 2011 8:00 am

If droughts has anything to do with temps, US does not sopport higher temperatures 2000 than 1940, on the countrary:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/droughts%20usa/h1.jpg
Rain in Australia appears temperature related, but cannot support higher temperatures 2000 than 1940:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/droughts/AuastraliaRain.jpg
Melting from Greenland icecap Boxer 2009 does not show recent flow larger than 1930:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/greenland%20temperatures%20measured%20and%20ice%20cap/c3.jpg
Antarctic UHI free UAH data, same story:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/antarctic%20air%20temperature%20at%20lower/aaf.jpg
Tree rings combined with UAH shows temps 2000 = 1940 too:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/medieval%20warm%20period/d7.jpg
Sea level rise again:
http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/sea-level-rise-the-ocean-has-risen-constantly-for-150-years-51.php
Sea level added to the “wrong” graphs :-9
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/temperature%20proxies/g5.jpg
Temperatures Europe, Balling 1997 when UHI removed:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/UHIworldtour/EuropeUHIBalling1997.jpg
etcetcetcetcetc…
Finally Check out Scaffetta / Solar theory:
http://hidethedecline.eu/pages/posts/solar-theory-ndash-temperatures-vs.-solar-activity-27.php

tallbloke
January 4, 2011 8:11 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 4, 2011 at 7:34 am
tallbloke says:
January 4, 2011 at 5:25 am
The last marriage which took place in Hvalsey church on Greenland was in 1408. They disappeared after 1480.
As I said, the Spoerer didn’t do it.

Nor did the Oort. The Wolf was the start of the trouble, then there was a 25 year improvement from 1325 to 1350. Then the descent into the Spoerer was the nail in the coffin.
http://tallbloke.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/tim-10be.jpg

January 4, 2011 8:24 am

And here some 0,4K warming adjustments of US temperatures after 1940:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/temperature%20corrections/f8.jpg
Global 0,07K warming inserted after just combining records:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/temperature%20corrections%20combined/ADJcombining7006recs.jpg
Is it now we should think that the conventional temperatures are so solid that they coulf be used to dismis Solar teory?
Radiosonde, raobcore: How high are 1940 compared with today?
Ok this is tropical:
http://hidethedecline.eu/media/temperatures%20measured%20from%20satelites%20and%20baloons/g4.jpg
Stalagmite: Notice that on this graph, the stalagmite – red- shows decline until it ends!
http://www.klimadebat.dk/forum/vedhaeftninger/stalagmite.jpg
K.R Frank

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