Do solar scientists STILL think that recent warming is too large to explain by solar activity?

 

Guest post by Alec Rawls

Study of the sun-climate link was energized in 1991 by Friis-Christensen and Lassen, who showed a strong correlation between solar-cycle length and global temperature:

This evidence that much of 20th century warming might be explained by solar activity was a thorn in the side of the newly powerful CO2 alarmists, who blamed recent warming on human burning of fossil fuels. That may be why Lassen and Thejll were quick to offer an update as soon as the 1997-98 El Nino made it look as if temperatures were suddenly skyrocketing:

The rapid temperature rise recently seems to call for a quantitative revisit of the solar activity-air temperature association …

We conclude that since around 1990 the type of Solar forcing that is described by the solar cycle length model no longer dominates the long-term variation of the Northern hemisphere land air temperature.

In other words, there was now too much warming to account for by solar cycle length, so some other factor, such as CO2, had to be driving the most recent warming. Of course everyone knew that the 1998 warming had actually been caused by ocean oscillations. Even lay people knew it. (El Nino storm tracks were all the news for six months here in California.)

When Lassen was writing his update in mid ’99, temperatures had already dropped back to 1990 levels. His 8 year update was outdated before it was published. 12 years later the 2010 El Nino year shows the same average temperature as the ’98 El Nino year, and if post-El Nino temperatures continue to fall off the way they did in 99, we’ll be back to 1990 temperatures by mid-2011. Isn’t it about time Friis-Cristensen, Lassen and Thejll issued another update? Do they still think there has been too much recent warming to be accounted for by solar activity?

The most important update may be the discovery that, where Lassen and his colleagues found a correlation between the length of a solar-cycle and temperatures over that cycle, others have been finding a much stronger correlation to temperatures over the next cycle (reported at WUWT this summer by David Archibald).

This further correlation has the advantage of allowing us make projections. As Archibald deciphers Solheim’s Norwegian:

since the period length of previous cycle (no 23) is at least 3 years longer than for cycle no 22, the temperature is expected to decrease by 0.6 – 1.8 degrees over the following 10-12 years.

Check out this alarming graphic from Stephen Strum of Frontier Weather Inc:

Lagged solar cycle length and temp, Stephen Strum, Frontier Weather Inc.

The snowed in Danes might like to see these projections, before they bet the rest of their climate eggs on a dangerous war against CO2.

From sins of omission to sins of commission

In 2007, solar scientist Mike Lockwood told the press about some findings he and Claus Frohlich had just published:

In 1985, the Sun did a U-turn in every respect. It no longer went in the right direction to contribute to global warming. We think it’s almost completely conclusive proof that the Sun does not account for the recent increases in global warming.

Actually, solar cycle 22, which began in 1986, was one of the most intense on record (part of the 20th century “grand maximum” that was the most active sun of the last 11 thousand years), and by almost every measure it was more intense than solar cycle 21. It had about the same sunspot numbers as cycle 21 (Hathaway 2006):

Sunspot prediction, NASA-Hathaway, 2006

Cycle 22 ran more solar flux than cycle 21 (via Nir Shaviv):

Cycle 22 was shorter than cycle 21 (from Joseph D’Aleo):

Solar cycle length, from Joseph D'Aleo

Perhaps most important is solar activity as measured (inversely) by the cosmic ray flux (which many think is mechanism by which solar activity drives climate). Here cycle 22 is THE most intense in the 60 year record, stronger even than cycle 19, the sunspot number king. From the Astronomical Society of Australia:

Neutron counts, Climaz Colorado, with sunspots, Univ. of Chicago

Some “U-turn in every respect.”

If Lockwood and Frohlich simply wanted to argue that the peak of the modern maximum of solar activity was between solar cycles 21 and 22 it would be unobjectionable. What difference does it make exactly when the peak was reached? But this is exactly where their real misdirection comes in. They claim that the peak of solar activity marks the point where any solar-climate effect should move from a warming to a cooling direction. Here is the abstract from their 2007 Royal Society article:

Abstract There is considerable evidence for solar influence on the Earth’s pre-industrial climate and the Sun may well have been a factor in post-industrial climate change in the first half of the last century. Here we show that over the past 20 years, all the trends in the Sun that could have had an influence on the Earth’s climate have been in the opposite direction to that required to explain the observed rise in global mean temperatures.

In order to assert the need for some other explanation for recent warming (CO2), they are claiming that near peak levels of solar activity cannot have a warming effect once they are past the peak of the trend—that it is not the level of solar activity that causes warming or cooling, but the change in the level—which is absurd.

Ken Gregory has the most precise answer to this foolishness. His “climate smoothing” graphic shows how the temperature of a heat sink actually responds to a fall-off in forcing:

Gregory, climate smoothing, contra-Lockwood

“Note that the temperature continues to rise for several years after the Sun’s forcing starts to decrease.”

Gregory’s numbers here are arbitrary. It could be many years before a fall off in forcing causes temperatures to start rising. In the case of solar cycle 22—where if solar forcing was actually past its peak, it had only fallen off a tiny bit—the only way temperature would not keep rising over the whole solar cycle is if global temperature had already equilibrated to peak solar forcing, which Lockwood and Frohlich make no argument for.

The obvious interpretation of the data is that we never did reach equilibrium temperatures, allowing grand maximum levels of solar activity to continue to warm the planet until the sun suddenly went quiet. Now there’s an update for Lockwood and Frohlich. How about telling the public when solar activity really did do “U” (October 2005).

Usoskin, Benestad, and a host of other solar scientists also mistakenly assume that temperature is driven by trend instead of level

Maybe it is because so much of the evidence for a sun-climate link comes from correlation studies, which look for contemporaneous changes in solar activity and temperature. Surely the scientists who are doing these studies all understand that there is no possible mechanism by which the rate of change in solar activity can itself drive temperature. If temperature changes when solar activity changes, it is because the new LEVEL of solar activity has a warming or cooling effect.

Still, a remarkable number of these scientists say things like this (from Usoskin et al. 2005):

The long term trends in solar data and in northern hemisphere temperatures have a correlation coefficient of about 0.7 — .8 at a 94% — 98% confidence level. …

… Note that the most recent warming, since around 1975, has not been considered in the above correlations. During these last 30 years the total solar irradiance, solar UV irradiance and cosmic ray flux has not shown any significant secular trend, so that at least this most warming episode must have another source.

Set aside the other problems with Usoskin’s study. (The temperature record he compared his solar data to is Michael Mann’s “hockey stick.”) How can he claim overwhelming evidence for a sun-climate link, while simultaneously insisting that steady peak levels of solar activity can’t create warming? If steady peak levels coincide with warming, it supposedly means the sun-climate link is now broken, so warming must be due to some other cause, like CO2.

It is hard to believe that scientists could make such a basic mistake, and Usoskin et al. certainly have powerful incentive to play dumb: to pretend that their correlation studies are finding physical mechanisms by which it is changes in the level of solar activity, rather than the levels themselves, that drive temperature. Just elide this important little nuance and presto, modern warming gets misattributed to CO2, allowing these researchers to stay on the good side of the CO2 alarmists who control their funding. Still, the old adage is often right: never attribute to bad motives what can just as well be explained by simple error.

And of course there can be both.

RealClimate exchange on trend vs. level confusion

Finally we arrive at the beginning, for me anyway. I first came across trend-level confusion 5 years ago at RealClimate. Rasmus Benestad was claiming that, because post 1960’s levels of Galactic Cosmic Radiation have not been trending downwards, GCR cannot be the cause of post-60’s warming.

But solar activity has been well above historical norms since the 40’s. It doesn’t matter what the trend is. The solar-wind is up. According to the GCR-cloud theory, that blows away the GCR, which blows away the clouds, creating warming. The solar wind doesn’t have to KEEP going up. It is the LEVEL that matters, not the trend. Holy cow. Benestad was looking at the wrong derivative (one instead of zero).

A few months later I took an opportunity to state my rebuttal as politely as possible, which elicited a response from Gavin Schmidt. Here is our 2005 exchange:

Me: Nice post, but the conclusion: “… solar activity has not increased since the 1950s and is therefore unlikely to be able to explain the recent warming,” would seem to be a non-sequitur.

What matters is not the trend in solar activity but the level. It does not have to KEEP going up to be a possible cause of warming. It just has to be high, and it has been since the forties.

Presumably you are looking at the modest drop in temperature in the fifties and sixties as inconsistent with a simple solar warming explanation, but it doesn’t have to be simple. Earth has heat sinks that could lead to measured effects being delayed, and other forcings may also be involved. The best evidence for causality would seem to be the long term correlations between solar activity and temperature change. Despite the differences between the different proxies for solar activity, isn’t the overall picture one of long term correlation to temperature?

[Response: You are correct in that you would expect a lag, however, the response to an increase to a steady level of forcing is a lagged increase in temperature and then a asymptotic relaxation to the eventual equilibrium. This is not what is seen. In fact, the rate of temperature increase is rising, and that is only compatible with a continuing increase in the forcing, i.e. from greenhouse gases. – gavin]

Gavin admits here that it’s the level of solar activity, not the trend in solar activity, that drives temperature. He’s just assuming that grand maximum levels of solar forcing should have bought the planet close to equilibrium temperature before post-80’s warming hit, but that assumption is completely unwarranted. If solar activity is driving climate (the hypothetical that Schmidt is analyzing), we know that it can push temperatures a lot higher than they are today. Surely Gavin knows about the Viking settlement of Greenland.

The rapid warming in the late 90’s could easily have been caused by the monster solar cycle 22 and there is no reason to think that another big cycle wouldn’t have brought more of the same. Two or three more cycle 22s and we might have been hauling out the longships, which would be great. No one has ever suggested that natural warming is anything but benign. Natural cooling bad, natural warming good. But alas, a longer grand maximum was not to be.

Gavin’s admission that it is level not trend that drives temperature change is important because ALL of the alarmist solar scientists are making the trend-level mistake. If they would admit that the correct framework is to look at the level of forcing and the lapse to equilibrium then they would be forced to look at the actual mechanisms of forcing and equilibration, instead of ignoring key forcings on the pretense that steady peak levels of forcing cannot cause warming.

That’s the big update that all of our solar scientists need to make. They need to stop tolerating this crazy charade that allows the CO2 alarmists to ignore the impact of decades of grand maximum solar activity and misattribute the resulting warming to fossil fuel burning. It is a scientific fraud of the most disastrous proportions, giving the eco-lunatics the excuse they need to unplug the modern world.

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January 3, 2011 11:04 am

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 3, 2011 at 1:30 am
………………..
Hey Doc
Solanki is good for SSN to 1950, Svalgaard & Cliver for NAP.
http://www.vukcevic.talktalk.net/AllvsVuk.htm
Happy New Year.

1DandyTroll
January 3, 2011 11:06 am

@Baa Humbug says:
‘The suns activity and it’s relationship to our weather has been a headscratcher for quite sometime now. Maybe we need to start looking at this differently’
Yes, for, obviously, our weather, and therefore climate, wouldn’t change one bit if we removed the Sun’s bountiful incoming light and all other radiation.
Although, for some crazy mathematical reason or another, I wouldn’t bet on the weather being the same if we could remove or effectively block out our local stellar hearth.

Matt
January 3, 2011 11:41 am

To Leif Svalgaard and the various proponents of solar cycle / climate links.
I have an idea on the issue of correlating solar activity metrics with climate. I do not have the data or the skills to evaluate this idea and would like to see what your thoughts are on my idea and / or if one of you can actually compile the data.
Here is my idea. Compare average sun spot number (or an average of some other solar activity measure) (which I define as the sum of daily observations over the course of a solar cycle divided by the length of the cycle in days) with the average temperature (averaged over the length of each solar cycle).

Martin Lewitt
January 3, 2011 11:56 am

Leif,
“The GSN is used to calibrate the model.”
You are right, I didn’t consider all 5 data sets. I assume you weren’t satisfied with Krivova’s separate handling of the pre-1874 data?
“Before 1874 a correlation analysis between sunspot areas and numbers is first carried out in order to compute sunspot areas for that earlier period. Following Krivova et al. [2007], we employ a fixed ratio between umbral and penumbral areas, u/( u + p) = 0.2 [Brandt et al., 1990; Solanki , 2003; 218 Wenzler, 2005].”
I think you are misinterpreting the interest in the solar hypothesis. Since the direct effects of CO2 can only explain about 30% of the recent warming, the rest must be explained somehow. The solar hypothesis is really in competition with the net positive feedback to CO2 hypothesis for some of the rest of the attribution. Despite your concerns about the sunspot record, there is good evidence that solar activity is at high levels. There is no evidence that net feedback to CO2 is positive, and some evidence suggestive that the feedback is actually negative. Aerosols, black carbon and multidecadal internal climate modes will probably also garner some of the attribution for the warming and except for black carbon also help explain the mid-century cooling.

January 3, 2011 12:05 pm

Vuk etc says:
January 3, 2011 at 11:04 am
Solanki is good for SSN to 1950, Svalgaard & Cliver for NAP.
NAP fails completely around 1850, so we write that off as falsified.
The McCracken and Solanki curves are dealt with here:
http://www.leif.org/research/McCracken%20JGR%202.pdf
and here:
http://www.leif.org/research/2009JA015069.pdf
So, no need to keep bringing them up. Even Lockwood [of all people] agrees that the Svalgaard&Clive reconstruction is good.
Matt says:
January 3, 2011 at 11:41 am
I have an idea on the issue of correlating solar activity metrics with climate.
Your idea applied to data [RSS and corresponding SSN] since 1979:
Cycle avg SSN avg dT
SC21: 90 -0.10
SC22: 78 0.01
SC23: 56 0.25
SC24: 10 0.38 [so far]
Clearly: lower SSN => higher dT
So your idea works quite well.

tallbloke
January 3, 2011 12:06 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 3, 2011 at 11:04 am
You might enjoy Kopecky’s take on the [in]homogeneity http://www.leif.org/EOS/Kopecky-1980.pdf

404 – not found
I have shown that PMOD has a calibration problem and that they do not fully understand the behavior of their instrument:
http://www.leif.org/research/PMOD%20TSI-SOHO%20keyhole%20effect-degradation%20over%20time.pdf

I agree PMOD is a mess. Froelich doesn’t understand the behaviour of other peoples instruments he’s been fiddling with the data from either.
Look at this letter from ACRIM’s principle investigator to Nicola Scafetta!
http://tallbloke.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/acrim.jpg
Ouch!
This is why I have little confidence in the flat TSI scenario.

January 3, 2011 12:18 pm

Dr. Svalgaard,
From your conclusion on pg 18 it appears there is a long cycle harmonic to solar cycle peaks (and troughs, though much less variable) . By eyeball, your chart seems to show 2.5 cycles. Is this just coincidence or is there another mechanism at work here.

January 3, 2011 12:19 pm

tallbloke says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:06 pm
http://www.leif.org/EOS/Kopecky-1980.pdf
404 – not found

Try now.
I agree PMOD is a mess.
Yet you happily quote PMOD if it fits your ideas…
This is why I have little confidence in the flat TSI scenario
PMOD has nothing to do with that. On the contrary, he [Froehlich] advocates a TSI that changes more than it really does. The Krivova paper that you call ‘crucial’ also uses PMOD as their calibration point: “Following Krivova et al. [2007], we also require the computed TSI variations to match the PMOD composite of space‐based measurements since 1978”
You are a good example of Leif’s law: “if the [otherwise crappy, messy] data somehow confirm my own pet theory, they must be good after all” or can, at least, be used in argument, hoping nobody will notice how bad they are.

Dave Springer
January 3, 2011 12:29 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 2, 2011 at 10:04 pm
“There has been no Grand Maximum. http://www.leif.org/research/AGU%20Fall%202010%20SH53B-03.pdf
Right. It’s the Modern Maximum. The last 50 years is the largest maximum since at least th 1600’s when decent observational records of sunspot number began.
What’s it take to graduate from the most active period in 500 years to a Grand Maximum? Seems like semantic games to me if not actually a moving goalpost.

Carla
January 3, 2011 12:32 pm

Stephen Wilde says:
January 3, 2011 at 8:50 am
..I have amended it slightly to deal with Leif’s objections which were to the effect that solar protons alone could not produce the required effect. Instead I now propose that it is the entire package of solar reactions with molecules at the top of the atmosphere that produces the observed outcome..
~
Stephen did you read this,
Atmospheric Ionization and Clouds as Links Between Solar Activity
and Climate
Brian A. Tinsley and Fangqun Yu
https://utdallas.edu/nsm/physics/pdf/Atmos_060302.pdf
Leif, just get some long underwear and a bun warmer. Then move up to between 40th+50th lat so you can seeeeee the difference in cloud changes. I’ve been driving for a number of years now, with a prior bias on weather related issues and have noticed that the last few years have been seeing changes in clouds.

Dave Springer
January 3, 2011 12:35 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 2, 2011 at 10:04 pm
“There has been no Grand Maximum. http://www.leif.org/research/AGU%20Fall%202010%20SH53B-03.pdf
Others disagree and call it a Grand Maximum. Plenty of others by the looks of it.
http://www.nicholas.duke.edu/thegreengrok/predictions-of-a-cooling-sun/?searchterm=None
http://www.agu.org/journals/ABS/2008/2008GL035442.shtml
What’s it take to graduate from the most active period in 500 years to a Grand Maximum? Seems like semantic games to me if not actually a moving goalpost.

January 3, 2011 12:38 pm

Martin Lewitt says:
January 3, 2011 at 11:56 am
“The GSN is used to calibrate the model.”
You are right

I think you are misinterpreting the interest in the solar hypothesis.
I know people are desperate for this link. Even the AGW-cult needs it to explain variability before CO2 kicked in.
Since the direct effects of CO2 can only explain about 30% of the recent warming, the rest must be explained somehow.
Any complex system [even the Sun] has random fluctuations that look like cycles.
Gino says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:18 pm
From your conclusion on pg 18 it appears there is a long cycle harmonic to solar cycle peaks (and troughs, though much less variable) . By eyeball, your chart seems to show 2.5 cycles. Is this just coincidence or is there another mechanism at work here.
We don’t know what causes the long quasi-cycles, but any complex system has those [Sun, Earth’s Climate, Lemmings, Freeway Traffic, the Economy, …] that seemingly come out of nowhere for no good reason. You live with them.

tallbloke
January 3, 2011 12:41 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:19 pm (Edit)
tallbloke says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:06 pm
http://www.leif.org/EOS/Kopecky-1980.pdf
404 – not found
Try now.

Excellent, thanks.
You are a good example of Leif’s law: “if the [otherwise crappy, messy] data somehow confirm my own pet theory, they must be good after all” or can, at least, be used in argument, hoping nobody will notice how bad they are.
No need to throw your toys out of the pram Leif. Why not address the substantive issues raised by the ACRIM P.I. Richard Wilson in the letter rather than attacking the messenger?
http://tallbloke.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/acrim.jpg
I already know how uncertain the calibration and splicing of the satellite data is. That’s why I use sunspot numbers rather than TSI in my studies.
[Froehlich] advocates a TSI that changes more than it really does.
You seemed happy with Froelich’s TSI and PMOD model while it was confirming your pet theory about a little varying sun. Yet when TSI takes a dive as the sun goes into the funk Geoff and I and several other planetary theorists predicted you suddenly don’t like it any more and ‘the data must surely be wrong’ ?
Where else have we heard that recently?

Dave Springer
January 3, 2011 12:43 pm

The current Grand Maximum is either the grandest or tied for the grandest in the past 12,000 years. You have to go back to 9000 B.C. to find a possibly higher maximum.
Grand minima and maxima of solar activity: New observational
constraints
I.G. Usoskin1, S.K. Solanki2, and G.A. Kovaltsov3
1 Sodankyl¨a Geophysical Observatory (Oulu unit), POB 3000, University of Oulu, Finland
e-mail:
ilya.usoskin@oulu.fi
2 Max-Planck-Institut f¨ur Sonnensystemforschung, 37191 Katlenburg-Lindau, Germany
3 Ioffe Physical-Technical Institute, Politekhnicheskaya 26, RU-194021 St. Petersburg, Russia
Received Month XX, 2007; accepted Month XX, 2007
Figure 3 on page three is the entire Holocene sunspot record. Not sure how good it is as it must be via proxy for most of that period. I bet it needs further study (send money).

Dave Springer
January 3, 2011 12:44 pm

Darn. Must have missed something in the href. Link for above paper on Holocene solar activity:
http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0706/0706.0385v1.pdf

January 3, 2011 12:53 pm

tallbloke says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:41 pm
Why not address the substantive issues raised by the ACRIM P.I. Richard Wilson in the letter rather than attacking the messenger?
Because I think that the ACRIM analysis is not valid either. E.g. they have a large unexplained annual variation. Livingston has measured the temperature of the quiet sun and finds no variation at all [not even with the cycle] over that past ~35 years. The magnetic indicators: F10.7, MgII, CaK, you name it, do not show the erratic variations between minima as ACRIM has.
You seemed happy with Froelich’s TSI and PMOD model while it was confirming your pet theory about a little varying sun.
You get this wrong all the time. I advocate a sun that varies a lot more than what people think. The standard variation of my sunspot numbers is higher than the GSN crew’s. What I dispute is the secular, regular, steady increase that is claimed.
Yet when TSI takes a dive as the sun goes into the funk Geoff and I and several other planetary theorists predicted you suddenly don’t like it any more and ‘the data must surely be wrong’ ?
TSI did not take a dive, it is behaving just as it should getting to the minimum value it always gets to at any solar minimum, so if you predict something else, you are off the mark.

Dave Springer
January 3, 2011 12:58 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 2, 2011 at 10:41 pm
“The total energy in the UV is very small and is absorbed high up in the atmosphere. If that energy is offset by infrared [to keep TSI constant], then since IR penetrates to the surface the net result [as the calculations showed] is very small [perhaps even the other way around, depending on the details].”
In other words you don’t even know the sign of surface temperature change due to spectral distribution changes.
This is supposed to inspire confidence in your understanding of the phenomenon?
One thing is for sure. You have all your bases covered – it might get warmer or it might get cooler

January 3, 2011 1:18 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:05 pm
NAP fails completely around 1850, so we write that off as falsified.
My dear Dr. Svalgaard
1850 -2000 is fine. NAP does not fail, it can’t fail, a square doesn’t fail because is not a circle. What you and your colleagues graph I will not go into, but if it is something generated by the sun, than all of you have failed, or your science has failed you, or both.
NAP (vukcevic) and Heliomagnetic field (Svalgaard & Cliver) according to what you teach can’t be more same than a square and a circle, more same than Californian vine and Eskimo fish oil.
But if it happens that you are correct, and they should be the same, then the NAP signal is one of the major discoveries of the early 21st century.

Dave Springer
January 3, 2011 1:23 pm

1DandyTroll says:
January 3, 2011 at 10:59 am
“(And as was done in the dot com debacle bubble.)”
It was no debacle. It followed the path of other revolutionary new technologies. A whole buttload of companies in the beginning followed by consolidation into a few leaders as the technology matured just as it happened in the auto and airline industries in the past century. No early investors in Microsoft, Intel, Cisco, Apple, Google, Facebook, Ebay, or Amazon are complaining today.

GuyG
January 3, 2011 1:24 pm

I would like to add a couple of references and ask a couple of questions to this actually good and intelligent debate. Leif, what is your comment regarding this question of the Wolf study. The Wolf paper essentially is seeking to flatten the data. It is able to do so due to a convenient start point, so that some of the earlier data can be discounted and fudged higher. Hiowever, if we were to carry the study back in time a few years some very apparent technical, mathematical problems would emerge. Specifically, the mathematical model would not work across the Little Ice Age. I would like your comments on that.
Also there are published mathematical studies of sun dynamics versus climate by Scafetta and West which contradict the Wolf study and show a climate time response of about 7.5 years to solat variability. I would like your comments on this. The Wolf study is critical in your argument to refute a grand maxima in solar activity and it looks to be questionable.

tallbloke
January 3, 2011 1:26 pm

Leif Svalgaard says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:53 pm
The standard variation of my sunspot numbers is higher than the GSN crew’s. What I dispute is the secular, regular, steady increase that is claimed.

I’m not seeing this “secular, regular, steady increase” on this graph, can you point it out?
http://www.woodfortrees.org/plot/sidc-ssn/mean:124
Your reconstruction may have a larger sd than the GSN, but the issue is the centennial variation, not the difference between adjacent high and low cycles. This is a red herring.

Stephen Wilde
January 3, 2011 1:34 pm

“Carla says:
January 3, 2011 at 12:32 pm
Stephen Wilde says:
January 3, 2011 at 8:50 am
Stephen did you read this,
Atmospheric Ionization and Clouds as Links Between Solar Activity
and Climate
Brian A. Tinsley and Fangqun Yu
https://utdallas.edu/nsm/physics/pdf/Atmos_060302.pdf
Thanks Carla, I haven’t seen that one before. It seems to be an extension of Svensmark’s GCR idea but I differ from that in a number of respects.
Firstly I think the cloudiness and albedo changes arise from changes in jet stream characteristics (zonality/poleward or meridional/equatorward) rather than cloud seeding by cosmic rays or solar particles.
Secondly I think the mechanism involves variable rates of ozone destruction above 45km arising from chemical processes that vary in line with the mix of wavelengths and particles from the sun as they change over time.
Thirdly it is the vertical temperature profile of the whole atmosphere that is affected so as (inter alia) to affect the height of the tropopause and therby change pressure distributions in the tropopause.
I have constructed the novel aspects of the scenario to fit with all manner of past observations. It should be easy enough to check it out as new data comes in regarding the climate system changes observed in response to the recent quiet sun.
The finding that ozone quantities increased above 45km despite the quiet sun is the first persuasive piece of evidence that supports the requirements of my hypothesis.

TonyR
January 3, 2011 1:39 pm

The planet is in a cooling mode and a decrease in solar activity very likely a major factor-but due to the recent maximum being a double peak, we were exposed to a longer period of high activity which led to the warmth of recent times. Oceans still cumulitavely contain stored heat which will be released in spurts-el-ninos. It will take a bit of time for the cooling to really manifest itself.

Leone
January 3, 2011 1:46 pm

The most confident national temperature records from U.S. and Scandinavia correlate highly with solar activity during past 100 years. Correlation stays there up to this date. If the correlation is not as good with GISTEMP or HadCRUT, then this could merely be indication of problems in those datasets. Actually 1930’s and 2000’s could be also globally more close to each other than HadCRUT or GISTEMP claims. I think that this is the missing piece of climate puzzle.

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