Remember when Joe Romm said the I-35W bridge collapse in Minneapolis was related to”climate change”?
And again…
The truth, never reported on Climate Progress, is far different:
In fact if you search for the keywords: “heat, weather, climate” as a factor for collapse in the NTSB press release here: http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2008/081114.html or in the full report here: http://www.dot.state.mn.us/i35wbridge/ntsb/finalreport.pdf
You won’t find them. That’s because the failure is completely unrelated to them.
Well now another structure in Minneapolis has collapsed. 21 inches of snow in a short period was a factor.
The snowfall that ended Saturday night was one of the five biggest in Twin Cities history, National Weather Service meteorologist James McQuirter said. (source)
Fortunately it appears no one was killed or injured. Was it Weather, not Climate? Or “climate disruption? Climate blamers, get your game on. Watch the video below of the actual collapse.
Inside:
Outside:
The Vikings were displaced:
It appears Viking history has repeated itself:
The Viking Hvalsey Church in Greenland, abandoned when it became too cold to live there anymore.
Will they blame it on CAGW/CC/CD? No, but they’ll probably say something like “events such as the collapse of the Metrodome will become more frequent in the future”,
and that unusual and damaging snowstorms are “consistent with the models”.
Warmspeak is a tricky language. Just ask R. Gates.
Well of course this will be claimed as definitive proof of AGW as the warming makes it colder. It’s all the fault of big oil, so we better ship some money off to some corrupt 3rd world totalitarian dictators. Doesn’t anyone care about the children and the fluffy polar bears anymore?!!
Here in Scandinavia we have a new form of climate disruption. We’re running out of Christmas trees. The snow is so deep that the growers can’t get at the trees, and the ones they have already felled are buried beneath drifts:
http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/stor-risk-att-granarna-tar-slut-fore-julhelgen_5801167.svd
R. Gates says: “I would think that because the Metrodome roof did not collapse during MWP or even during the warming period of the 1920′s-1940′s, proves that the current warming period is more intense and causing greater climate disruption.”
REPLY: I can’t tell if you are being sarcastic or just your usual ridiculous self. If making sarcasm, please use a /sarc tag afterwards. -Anthony
I took it as a parody of (mostly Warmist, but not always) non-sequiturs and thus found it one of the funniest comments “R” has made here. He has moments of brilliance, every now and then.
Jimbo says:
December 12, 2010 at 12:51 pm
Ms. or Mrs. or Mr. R. Gates
I would love to read your comments late next year. ;O)
_______
I have no horse in the AGW discussion from a political or economic perspective and truly only care about the continual advancement of human knowledge about the dynamics of this amazing cosmos, which includes of course, the climate system of earth. As trite as this sounds (and it does, I fully admit), it is absolutely true in my case. While I’ve staked my claim to be 75% certain that AGW is happening (and will be reflected in the longer term in warming, climate change and climate disruption), if some new information comes to light that shows that the 40% increase in CO2 since the 1700’s makes not a knat’s ass bit of difference in the climate, and everything is just natural variability from the sun, the PDO, the AMO, the NAO, galactic cosmic rays, intersellar dust, or firefly farts, then science will have progressed!
Jimbo says: “Ms. or Mrs. or Mr. R. Gates, I would love to read your comments late next year. ;O)”
Don’t you mean “and/or”? From the variation in comment quality, I suspect there’s more than one “R” at work here. One of them is fairly intelligent…
@RGates
You’ve not been to Damascus, recently, have you?
Forgive me, for asking that, but you do appear to be less rigid with your thinking than previously. If so, well done Sir!
This was posted on American Agriculturalist as “new news” two days ago.
….Lady in Red
Are You Adjusting For Climate Change?
Years ago, Penn State and Cornell University climate watchers began talking about the earlier and faster growing degree day accumulations compared to even 30 years ago. Fruit trees are blooming and ripening earlier.
Long-season corn hybrids aren’t so long-season anymore. They’re maturing and drying down earlier than ever.
Insects that used to be problems only in the South are crawling – or flying – up into the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast. Weeds that never overwintered in north country are now doing so because of milder winters – less snow and more temperate temperatures.
North country is no longer as north as it used to be. And the subtle yet profound climate changes could reshape crop agriculture, contends Otto Doering, director of the Climate Change Research Center at Purdue University. If climate change predictions are accurate, farmers between Interstate 70 and 80 “could get a permanent dose of southern-style weather.”
Agricultural producers throughout the Corn Belt latitudes are already facing warmer average temperatures and precipitation extremes. That’s leading farmers to shift to more climate-appropriate crops or management strategies, says Doering. By year 2100, one scenario predicts central Indiana’s climate would be like that of Virginia (mid- to upper 40s) during winter and Oklahoma (regularly topping 90 degrees) during summer.
As the climate shifts . . .
Farmers will be confronted with major meteorological challenges. Rainfall variability with a smaller number of storms over the growing season and more intense storms are things we’ll have to watch out for,” he predicts.
Warmer winters mean pests wouldn’t be wiped out as much like on those days in January where it’s below zero and the cold permeates the ground. That may help explain the northward march of stink bugs into Maryland and Pennsylvania.
Even with climate changes, Indiana and the upper Midwest would continue to be the nation’s best corn-growing region. But the western Corn Belt that relies on irrigation might drop corn production altogether if permanent drier conditions prevail, he says. “In those places, farmers are probably going to move to dry land sorghum, dry land wheat and other sorts of crops.” Other potential impacts include:
• Double cropping is already moving farther North, particularly on the East Coast.
• Seed maturities, traits and planting schedules also are shifting.
• Rainfall and temperature changes could erode conservation gains and reduce soil organic matter.
To learn more visit http://www.purdue.edu/climate/.
Disruption is used often in the UK during weather forecasts where serious concerns to human safety are possible. (ie transport conditions) This has nothing to do with climate disruption.
Regarding the climate phase it’s :-
not global warming
not climate change
not climate disruption
but CLIMATE SPIN (the new era in science when politics become science)
R. Gates says: December 12, 2010 at 11:50 am
When I hear the ignorant talk (from either side of an issue), is causes me more pain than amusement…but to each their own.
————————————————————————————
R.Gates. Have you read (or listened to) what you just said? YOU are the pain. (in the a—se)
Douglas
This was a good storm – a foot and a half of snow, 30MPH winds, and then it plunged below 0F. Up to a balmy 5 now, but headed back for teens below tonight and tomorrow again. With all that, we still sat out in the jacuzzi last night – it was awesome. Un-burying the cars and clearing the driveway today – not so much. But it’s Minnesota – been there, done that, and hard to say it was “unprecedented.” Merry Christmas!
jorgekafkazar says:
December 12, 2010 at 1:49 pm
Jimbo says: “Ms. or Mrs. or Mr. R. Gates, I would love to read your comments late next year. ;O)”
Don’t you mean “and/or”? From the variation in comment quality, I suspect there’s more than one “R” at work here. One of them is fairly intelligent…
_____
I shall pass that on to my right hemisphere once we get the corpus callosum reconnected…
_________
RoyFOMR says:
December 12, 2010 at 1:59 pm
@RGates
You’ve not been to Damascus, recently, have you?
Forgive me, for asking that, but you do appear to be less rigid with your thinking than previously. If so, well done Sir!.
_____
Water is useful, not because it is rigid, but because it flows… –Lao Tzu
I’m am still a 75/25 warmist vs skeptic, but perhaps I’ve been spending a bit more time looking at that 25% side of things…
Warmers see everything through the prism of
global warming climate changeclimate disruption. Reminds me of Elizabeth May (Canada’s Green Party leader), who proclaimed AIDS in Africa was getting worse due to climate change — I believe that was last year at the Copenhagen conference. It honestly borders on the obsessive the lengths to which Warmers apply their pettheory hypothesisconjecture to anything, and everything they come across.“if some new information comes to light that shows that the 40% increase in CO2 since the 1700′s makes not a knat’s ass bit of difference in the climate, and everything is just natural variability from the sun, the PDO, the AMO, the NAO, galactic cosmic rays, intersellar dust, or firefly farts, then science will have progressed!”
R Gates,
What information shows that the 40 percent increase in CO2 makes a lot of difference to climate? because that would be new information.
It has taken a strongish recent El Nino to cause global temperatures to become near the peak in 1997/98. That El Nino only should be 0.07c warmer then the recent one during 2009/2010.
That means for example if they did become equal warmist years, 0.07c warmer over 12 years is a concern to all human civilisation even if this was only down to CO2? At this rate it would take 171 years for global temperatures to reach only 1.0c higher. The temperature changes over the decades already include any feedbacks this planet is going to encounter and these are not alarming at all.
Edan Aharony says:
December 12, 2010 at 11:04 am
Probably a good thing they didn’t move the game to Green Bay. I don’t know if Lambeau Field could withstand that much irony.
Would that qualify as an avalanche?
It’s worse than I thought!
Ecotretas
More bad luck on TPaw’s watch. A couple other bridges of similar design(MNDOT-state engineers) have been replaced following the disaster.
Back a few, the Cities failed to buy enough salt for the roads. That may be a problem again if they don’t buy enough of the cold weather stuff(what potassium chloride, don’t remember?).
Lady in Red is groping about with old data. La Nina winters will be de rigueur for a quarter century. Wonderful luck that they’ve time to re-up Ethanol subsidies before the break for Xmas.
We’re in the best of hands.
Matt G says:
December 12, 2010 at 2:32 pm
“if some new information comes to light that shows that the 40% increase in CO2 since the 1700′s makes not a knat’s ass bit of difference in the climate, and everything is just natural variability from the sun, the PDO, the AMO, the NAO, galactic cosmic rays, intersellar dust, or firefly farts, then science will have progressed!”
R Gates,
What information shows that the 40 percent increase in CO2 makes a lot of difference to climate? because that would be new information.
It has taken a strongish recent El Nino to cause global temperatures to become near the peak in 1997/98. That El Nino only should be 0.07c warmer then the recent one during 2009/2010.
_______
Matt, there is a rise in temperature over the past half a century that rides on top of both ENSO cycles and solar cycles. This rise can clearly be seen in this chart:
http://tiny.cc/cqr7z
(scroll down to temperature vs sunspot number and you can also see the spikes/dips caused by ENSO cycles)
Now some would say this rise is all at least partially due to the PDO cycle along with other ocean cycles such as the AMO, etc., and some would say that we had a very active sun during this period, and that we are now headed back to a quiet sun period much like the Dalton Minimum, and these are all possible. It is also possible (and “warmists” like me would say probable) that part of the rise is due to the 40% increase in CO2 since the 1700’s caused by human activity finally overwhelming the other natural cycles.
We will likely get another El Nino closer to the current Cycle 24 Solar Max (say in 2012-2013. Even though this solar max will likely not be a strong as Cycle 23, to what would AGW skeptics ascribe the likely record setting global temps that will come along with the next El Nino, even though the solar sun spot cycle will not be has high as during the 1998 El Nino, and hence Total Solar Irradiance will not be has high? Combine this with what would be a cool phase of the PDO, and it will get harder and harder for skeptics to find reasons why global temps will keep hitting records other than accepting what GCM’s are saying at CO2 and AGW.
I would ask AGW skeptics this: If the decade from 2010 to 2019 turns out to be warmer than 2000-2009, (which was the warmest on instrument record), to what will you personally attribute this phenomenon? You can of course claim it will be due to poor, sloppy, or incomplete temperature records, but when multiple independent sources report the same general thing, it will be hard to play that card much longer.
I have to wonder, this is Minnesota. It ain’t Florida! Doesn’t it snow there every winter? The roof collapsed under 17 inches of snow. JUST 17 INCHES! I live in North Carolina, and the roof I stay under has yet to collapse under 24 inches of snow. Which idiot built the Metrodome? Considering where the stadium is, why wasn’t the Teflon roof built to withstand 60 inches of snow?!?
Then again, maybe God is a Brett Favre fan. Brett Favre has already said that if the game were today, he wouldn’t start, thus breaking his iron-man streak. But now he may start. Or, maybe it was John Madden who “accidentally” sabotaged the roof.
Tis the season to be talking about stink bugs!
Lady in Red (@2:00)
Warmer winters mean pests wouldn’t be wiped out as much like on those days in January where it’s below zero and the cold permeates the ground. That may help explain the northward march of stink bugs into Maryland and Pennsylvania. ( Otto Doering ?)
I grew up in western Penna. (or PA in today’s post office) and can assure Prof. Doering that stink bugs are not a recent arrival to the fauna of that great state. However, a new arrival has generated much discussion but to relate this to climate change is a stretch. These insects seem to find the insides of houses to be a favorite residence so the winter temperature is of limited usefulness when explaining their expansion.
http://ento.psu.edu/extension/factsheets/brown-marmorated-stink-bug
By year 2100, one scenario predicts central Indiana’s climate would be like that of Virginia (mid- to upper 40s) during winter . . .
This might follow if the Gulf Stream flows northward in the Wabash Valley and exits via Lake Erie and the Saint Lawrence River. Otherwise, not a chance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wabash_Valley_Seismic_Zone
jorgekafkazar says:
December 12, 2010 at 1:49 pm
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R. Gates says:
December 12, 2010 at 10:40 am
I would think that because the Metrodome roof did not collapse during MWP or even during the warming period of the 1920′s-1940′s, proves that the current warming period is more intense and causing greater climate disruption.
You seem to not to be able to draw clear lines in your mind. “Manmade global warming” predicts winters will start later and end sooner. It does not predict they will start sooner with record cold and more snow. That is what is happening now in the Northern Hemisphere. In other words, this is more evidence that the “manmade global warming” hypothesis is wrong. When a hypothesis does not have supporting evidence it is a wrong hypothesis and must be scrapped.
But you do not want to do that. Instead, you say anything, regardless if it was predicted by “manmade global warming” or not, is caused by “manmade global warming”. Oh wait, it’s not called that anymore, it’s called “climate disruption” now.
So now you want people to believe “manmade global warming” causes record cold and huge snow storms before winter even starts. You also want us to believe huge snow storms like this have not happened before at this time of year.
But if I am wrong then would you show us how these kind of storms have happened before? Also, would you tell us that “manmade global warming” did not predict winters would start earlier?
R. Gates says:
December 12, 2010 at 3:52 pm
I would ask AGW skeptics this: If the decade from 2010 to 2019 turns out to be warmer than 2000-2009, (which was the warmest on instrument record), to what will you personally attribute this phenomenon?
I wouldn’t attribute it to anything, since it isn’t the case.
The last decade isn’t exceptional. It depends on the starting point. If climate history began in 1979, when the gentle, possibly benign warming in recent ideology began, then that harmless warming exists no longer and we have a plateau-levelling off of warming. It has ben a period during which population has increased dramatically globally, famines have been milder than prior cold periods..
However, if you take the late 19th century as the starting point, which is seen as the beginning of the industrial revolution on a large scale, then this was the coldest part of the entire holecene period.
It is extremely unlikely that we shall return to temperatures that were experienced during the holocene optimum, which climatically, was extremely recent, either the length of time that this held for. In fact, 3/4 of the holocene has been warmer than the last 30 years, during which period of time, no climatic travesties have taken place.
There have been climatic travesties in the past, though these are associated with cold periods
Wade says:
December 12, 2010 at 4:04 pm
Then again, maybe God is a Brett Favre fan
Brett Favre does it all ;o)