Take a moment to observe this day, Patriot Day, to remember those who gave their lives, and to celebrate our freedom from tyranny. If you can, fly your flag at half staff.
911 reminder – Patriot Day
- Friday, February 6, 2026
Take a moment to observe this day, Patriot Day, to remember those who gave their lives, and to celebrate our freedom from tyranny. If you can, fly your flag at half staff.
GM
You admit that Islam has a grip on societies in various countries,then you say we can loosen that grip by building schools etc.How do you monitor that school after it is built?Wouldn’t you be giving the ones with the grip more venues to enforce that grip?
The ones with the grip do not want their children to be educated or corrupted by western decadence.
They prefer to do the corrupting,keeps that grip in place.
Pressure has been put on those countries for years,some pressure has paid off,various laws have been changed,but now those with the grip are being reinforced by those who say,Islam is no threat,it is a religion of peace.
It may well be a religion of peace,but those with the grip don’t seem to practise the peaceful version.
The one with the grip in Iraq is gone,and best of all, the successors to come after him are gone now too.
Maybe the one with the grip will be back in Iraq one day,but it is hopeful that the people will not allow it to happen because they are tasting freedom right now.
People’s freedoms are being eroded all the time.The more they succeed the less freedom you have.How else do you protect a country from another 911?
GM,
You are either pursuing an agenda to the exclusion of all logical thought and premise, or you are simply so far over your head on these issues that you don’t know you are drowning.
For starters, had you simply suggested that the plight of those being victimized by their own countrymen in places such as the Congo, Somalia, Sudan, North Korea and so on should also be remembered and not swept under the rug, you likely would have gotten some support. But you conflated arguments such as these by casting the military invasion of Afghanistan as “revenge” and suggested that it ruined those two countries.
“Revenge” was by no means the rational for military action in Afghanistan, it was a matter of pursuing the enemy in his place of refuge with the goal of eliminating the enemies infrastructure, supply lines, and as many of his combatants as possible. This is prudent use of military force as it constrains the enemy’s ability to act against you, and it serves notice to other countries which may grant such as Al Queda a safe haven that there may be a price to pay for doing so and they perhaps will rethink it. Had simple revenge been all the was on the minds of the coalition, it could have been accomplished in a matter of minutes without a single coalition casualty.
As for being “ruined”, as someone who followed events in Afghanistan and Iraq for many years before 9/11, I find that comment rather odd. Afghanistan under the Taliban was a cesspool of hatred and intolerance and repression that none but the willfuly blind would see as better than what exists today. Not that the war in Afghanistan couldn’t have been managed better, but the population lived an existance that made even the Dark Ages look mild.
Iraq under Suddam Hussein wasn’t much better. While detractors are quick to point out that as many as 100,000 Iraqi’s may have died due to the invasion, Saddam’s rule accounted for wars that killed over a million people, and he butchered hundreds of thousands of his own citizens. Had it not been for over 10 years of British and American air force protection enforcing the “no fly zone”, there is no doubt that the Marsh Arabs and the Kurds of Iraq would have long since been exterminated.
It is terribly naive to throw around suggestion like building schools as if this solves the problem. The problem however, is that can only be of value if those who attend those schools are safe from terrorists who throw acid in their faces as they leave the school, potentially blinding them and disfiguring them for life, not to mention the risk teachers face of being kindnapped and tortured to death.
The world is a bit more complicated than you seem to think GM. Invading Afghanistan was about taking the war to the enemy and fighting the enemy on his ground, not ours. It is a tragedy that innocent people die in order for that to happen, but perhaps Al Queda and the Taliban should have thought about that. Perhaps they thought America would just sit idly by and wait for another attack on American soil. I don’t know the answer to that, but I do know this. Life under the Taliban and Saddam was a life of daily terror, repression, and little hope for the future. Those countries may sieze the opportunity to build a better society for the future, and they may well slip back into their medieval past. But at least they will have had a chance to make the change, something they would not have achieved otherwise. They are hardly ruined in comparison to what they were, and they have an open door now to be much better than they could have otherwise become.
9/11 needs to be remembered not simply because so many died in such a tragic manner, but because those who perpetrated those attacks have a vision of the world with them in charge and all of the rest us living the life of despair and repression that the Taliban and the ilk represent.
As for your list of what the core beliefs are of people who support this site, I have to advise you that you get a failing grade on my account at any rate.
I had been on holiday in Sorrento, near Naples, in Italy with my Venezuelan girlfriend for a few days. On September 11th we were on the train back to Rome when we heard some guy talking on the phone. I can’t speak Italian so my girlfriend was translating what the guy was saying into Spanish. We thought he must have been mad as we he was going on about the end of the world.
We checked into a hotel in Rome and our TV wasn’t working and I never bothered to get it fixed. Later that night we went out for a meal but we never heard anything about what had happened in New York the day before.
The next day we went out for lunch in a bar and the TV was on and it was only then when we realised what had happened.
Thinking about things I remembered walking past an open air concert the night before and the band had been playing “New York, New York”
.
‘How else do you protect a country from another 911?’
Remove the evil from within !!!!!!
Dr? Dave: ‘These are guys who design containers to withstand being dropped from planes or hit by trains and keep control mechanisms in nuke plants safe from fire. As they watched the towers burn they just looked at each other and said “the towers are going to collapse”. ‘
if i’m not allowed to challenge this nonsense here, i don’t see why it should be here.
now maybe we know why so many of the public accept dangerous AGW without looking at the science.
REPLY: You may think it is nonsense. The fact is that many of us here are experienced engineers in structures, aerospace, etc. The Truther argument is so incorrect it isn’t even wrong, it utterly fails Occam’s Razor, as well as every point by point in the truther arguments. I won’t go over it here, and this blog is not going to become a haven for Truther conspiracy theories, ESPECIALLY on this day, it is entirely rude and offensive to do so. You wouldn’t walk around the Arizona Memorial telling all the veterans that their buddies were all killed by a conspiracy between Roosevelt and jewish bankers, would you (you’d probably get your butt kicked)??? – Mike
Shortly before the third leg of the Elevation Tour, the September 11 attacks occurred in New York City and Washington D.C. During the band’s first show in New York City following the attacks, the band performed “Where the Streets Have No Name”, and when the stage lights illuminated the audience, the band saw tears streaming down the faces of many fans.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DJUvAA7jOFs8&v=JUvAA7jOFs8&gl=US
Where The Streets Have No Name (2002 Super Bowl Live)
http://m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3Dgq08ouOwiqQ&v=gq08ouOwiqQ&gl=US
I don’t know the truth about 9/11. Whether it was bin Laden or a stitch-up, it was terrible. I think truth is important… but not when it unleashes emotions so violent that peace cannot be brokered. Healing situations often needs ugly truths to be exposed… but only to release them with forgiveness. Patriotism can be both vice and virtue… but currently its virtues are too often forgotten in the name of “political correctness” or some such mud-in-mouth blather that stops us seeing the nuances.
I am both proud and ashamed, at different times, to be British. I wish we used flagpoles more. We have Saint George’s Day but I know of none to celebrate Britannia. That would be nice. But we did originate the Silent Minute, used during World War II and described by a high-ranking Nazi officer after the war as the one weapon they could not match. It would be good to have a day remembering such things, that can still counteract things like the current science whitewashes.
All this is giving me ideas.
As an Australian I saw this as a black day for all people living in freedom. This attack was no less than the attack on Pearl Harbour. To count it as some thing less is political correctness gone mad. Sadly Islam uses the same tactics as the AGW crowd to make people believe that it is all our fault. In the manner that we remember our war dead, I spent a minute in contemplative silence for those that perished. Lest we forget.
From: mike on September 12, 2010 at 1:43 am
This “nonsense” is based on long-observed properties of materials. Can you provide a presentation that shows, given the structural damage and the intense fires, based on knowledge of the materials used in construction, that the towers should not have fallen?
BTW, thermite is simply a mixture of ground-up metals and metal oxide particles, recipes are freely available. As evidenced by the clouds of dust and fine debris, there were large amounts of mechanical grinding during the collapses. Fine particles of metals that were in the buildings would have been present, including steel (and thus rust), aluminum, even copper and some magnesium. The area was liberally hosed down with water, by that and otherwise the fine particulates were gathered together. Thus the presence of mixtures in the wreckage that some may consider evidence of thermite having been in the buildings, is not unexpected. Heck, given the range of substances found in those buildings, from cleaning fluids and photocopier toner to soda and vitamin/mineral supplements, and the products of combustion from the fires (the wreckage burned and smoldered for days), finding substances that could be the residues of explosives is not surprising either.
Kadaka, yes, thermite is a simple mixture of iron oxide and aluminium powder, but nanothermite is not. It is very difficult to make. See this paper:
http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM
Frank Legge said on September 12, 2010 at 3:37 am:
Well, despite that I’m using a Linux box, it is still good internet practice to be wary of strange sites. And Wikipedia does have an easy-to-digest nano-thermite entry…
… … … …
It uses particles of a very fine size, which some would describe as “pulverized.” I’m pretty sure that can be done with a concrete slab moving relatively fast, either against a material being ground or with the material between that and a relatively stationary slab. There is also a pulverizing action on impact. Studying the methods, vapor deposition of layers should work, and there were certainly vaporized metals present due to the heat of the fires. Also, “Aluminium-iron(II,III) oxide” (aluminum and rust) is a possible combination, same as with basic thermite.
What am I missing? (And more importantly, why am I still awake? I’ll be back later.)
BTW Frank, “SGM” file extension? What’s that?
Huh?
nice to have frank legge around. but this isn’t a blog for this stuff. all i would say, kadaka, is i wanted to discuss only the collapses (i.e. velocity thereof with respect to steel structures). anyway, i think i can go elsewhere to discuss this. bb.
if i’m not allowed to challenge this nonsense here, i don’t see why it should be here.
Perhaps in a lighter (and perhaps somewhat regretful) moment, Anthony will start a thread on the science (engineering really – the science is pretty mundane) of large scale free-standing columns, to air the myths and misunderstandings about what keeps them up. Especially those built of a high percentage of inelastic materials.
As a a sailor and (former) yacht owner, I have an intimate understanding of what it takes to keep a vertical structure in column, most especially when you are applying horizontal loads measured in tons, which, if allowed, will make a pretzel out of the strongest w/v materials we have. It isn’t, and shouldn’t be, rocket science to understand why the towers came down. A course in first year classical mechanics will suffice.
Stripped bare, horror was visited on individuals and nations for no worthwhile purpose – not for the sake of anybody’s God, not for the advancement of any higher purpose of any defined religion. The entire event was profane from beginning to end. Nations, most especially the US, but many others as well since individuals of some 90 ethnic and national origins died that day, have every right, and indeed, obligation, to remember those who were lost, and those who were lost trying to save. We don’t remember every human tragedy; perhaps we should, but 9/11 is remembered because of the sheer audacity of the evil perpetrated. President Obama might prefer to exclaim that America is “not at war with Islam”, but he’d be wrong. Wrong to fail to understand that western civilization is at war with the evil that lies in the dark hearts of men in the name of any religion.
9/11 is a stark reminder to all that blind faith in the dogma of any belief system is fraught with peril, since it can be no more than an abstraction of reality, and barely even representative of it. GM, Mike, and Pederson, you need to go and find someone to hold and to love. 9/11 is about losing forever, that opportunity.
extremist says:
September 11, 2010 at 12:23 pm
The response to 911 (invading Iraq) was somehow similar to the response to global warming (reduce atmospheric CO2). Given the essentially illogical and reality-ignoring natures of both these response, are we really sure that we are free from tyranny today? More abstractly, can we ever be free from the tyranny of majority rule?
__________________________-
Actually is “can we ever be free from the tyranny of rule by the powerful and wealthy?” They used to call them Aristocrats but since the French revolution they have gone underground and rule from behind. All you have to do is look at the Corporate, lobbyist, government revolving doors.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/208403-wall-street-and-government-revolving-door-spins-at-dizzying-pace
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Government-industry_revolving_door
Mike McMillan says:
September 11, 2010 at 9:10 pm
…..I take the attacks of Muslims against the more civilized world personally. That they would try to build a 9-11 Victory Mosque at Ground Zero to rub our noses in their triumph, I do not find surprising, but I do find the myriads who defend that insult offensive.
____________________________-
I agree whole heartedly. That NYC and the US government would actually allow this insult to the American people by enemies of the USA, and it is an insult and not “religious freedom”, I find pathetic and indicative of the problems of this once great nation. “Politically Correct” once a derogatory term for unreasoning group think, has become the norm.
The Origins of Political Correctness: http://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness
It is quite ironic that we would go to war causing the death of hundreds of thousands and yet the same ideology we are actively fighting is allowed to build a victory monument in our country!
GM do not try to pull the Muslim-phobe card because my favorite grandparent was Muslim. I was raised VERY religiously/ethnically tolerant.
I don’t think we are free from tyranny at all. Our elected presidents pass laws much as a king would, with no consent of congress. Checks and balances are out the window. Trillions are given to favored banks and corporations without taxpayer approval. Our civil liberties are violated each time we board an airline flight. The IRS digs deep into our personal lives. I could go on and on and on. 9/11 was used by politicians to impose even more more and more restrictions on our freedom. It’s sad that innocent lives were lost on 9/11. It is sadder that 9/11 was used as an excuse to cause more innocent lives to be lost in countries that had nothing to do with 9/11, and that flag-wavers will use that day as an excuse to take away more and more of our sacred liberties.
“Kadaka, yes, thermite is a simple mixture of iron oxide and aluminium powder, but nanothermite is not. It is very difficult to make. See this paper:”
Ignorant and insulting hand waving.
Anyone who thinks that virtual army of fake elevator repair people invaded te WTC and put explosives anywhere, everywhere, was never there, doesn’t understand the Port Authority’s actual authority, and insults pretty much everyone who works on any large building on NY. As it happens I used to work in these buildings with a cart of equipment.
Even in 1990 ( Before the first bombing) you couldn’t just waltz in and out of ANY building in the area with anything more than a briefcase, and dismissing all of these people who take and took their jobs extremely seriously ( from security guards down to Janitors) is a damnable insult , and just shows the low regard that such idiots have for their fellow man.
There is NO version ( among the many) of the truther narrative that stands up to any actual knowledge . I am not an engineer, but I understood the differences that allowed straight up construction of 1/4 mile in height . I have no patirence for explaining the truth to troothers anymore.
As far as I am concerned they are merely repeating and expanding enemy propaganda
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jul/28/deborchgrave-sept-2001-interview-hameed-gul/
There should be consequences. ‘ ‘ ‘ [ one of which will be this site getting bogged down with ping pong over conspiracy nuts . . is that what is wanted? mod]
” is that what is wanted?”
Emphatically NO. And I hesitate to even add what I did, which is a small ray of light in this voluminous subject.
But they are persistent and it is insulting, and they are sneaking it in and need to be shamed.
I regularly participate in this forum, and think that anthropogenic climate change ideology is anti-scientific rubbish. Well, let us see how well our leftist friend GM understands people who regularly participate in this forum. GM postulates that our characteristic traits, in his limited understanding, are as follows:
1. Religiosity
I am an atheist. Test failed.
2. Generally right wing political convictions and firm belief in free market ideology; “patriotism” falls somewhere here too.
I am a pro-choice libertarian. Test failed.
As to “patriotism”, is has to be exactly defined to be discussed any further. There is a patriotism of scoundrels, and there is patriotism of heroes. Quite different things.
3. Rejection of AGW
I reject not only AGW but any other emotional or ideological theory not based on observable, independently proven facts. AGW is politically charged, utterly corrupt voodoo science. However, there are more than enough brainwashed participants here, including yourself, who have fallen into the fold of the green religion. Test failed.
4. Rejection of the existence of any limits to growth
Various people have various ideas here on this subject but I have never heard from any of them that there aren’t any limits of growth. Test failed.
5. Rejection of the theory of evolution
Oh, no. Evolution (natural selection) is not a theory, it is a fact of life, and solid majority of the regular WUWT participants would never do anything so stupid. Test failed.
6. Rejection of a number of other well established scientific theories
Too vague a statement to serve as a test. On any forum there are many points of view on scientific theories that some consider “well established” (whatever this means), and others do not.
7. Rejection of the authority of expertise, general anti-intellectualism and anti-science stance
A self-contradictory statement that cannot serve as a test. We reject the authority of the self-appointed shamans who hide the facts, corrupt the science, and deny the access to their methodology and data. We welcome the authority of the scientific experts who make their conclusions on the basis of the observable and accessible factual data, not on the wishes of some political clique or “establishment”. Actually, you can find more intellect and real science (and much less abuse, foul language, and infantile trolling) on this forum than on most other “progressive” sites.
For a person who tries to “understand” the participants of WUWT, you have not achieved much, GM.
Actually, you are a liar and a bad scientist, because you made a prejudiced conclusion before you studied the subject, only pretending that you are doing research: exactly the way your AGW friends are conducting the embezzlement of public funds they claim to be their “science.”
P.S.
“Firm belief in free market ideology” is somehow a mark of being “right-wing”?
Funny. Do your “science” in North Korea, then. Their fearless leaders share your concern about free market.
GM says:
September 11, 2010 at 8:08 pm
For my part you are wrong on every count here.
I recommend you go away and do some growing up.
@ur momisugly Alexander Feht:
Do you understand the meaning of the word “correlation”? Apparently not…
GM says:
September 12, 2010 at 1:46 pm
@ur momisugly Alexander Feht:
Do you understand the meaning of the word “correlation”? Apparently not…
_________________________________
No one much cares what you think or say at this point. Have you made your travel arrangements yet to a Muslim country? I mean, you are going to build schools to teach them, are you not?
GM,
Yes, I understand the meaning of the word “correlation.”
There is no correlation between your question and my remarks.