About the reliability of ice cores…

Guest Post by Ferdinand Engelbeen
There have been hundreds of reactions to part 1 about the mass balance (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/08/05/why-the-co2-increase-is-man-made-part-1 ). Many respondents still are not convinced that the mass balance is a firm proof that the observed increase of CO2 in the atmosphere is human made. But there are more indications. Ultimately, any alternative explanation must fit all the observations. If the alternative hypothesis fails even only one of the observations, then the alternative is rejected. But before we start to look at more observations which support an anthropogenic cause, we need to address several misconceptions which fly around on the Internet, mainly on skeptic blogs… This part has a detailed look at the reliability of ice cores, which are quite important for our knowledge of the pre-industrial CO2 levels, but have been subject to a lot of critique.
Note that the ice cores only show CO2 levels back to about 800,000 years, but measurements may in the future be extended to over one million years. What is found in the ice cores is only relevant for the most recent period of our history and not for more distant geological time periods.
About the reliability of ice cores:
Some have objections to the ice core measurements, as these are regarded as the main reason for the “equilibrium” assumption of ancient CO2 levels. The only real problem in this case is the smoothing of CO2 levels. That depends on the snow accumulation rate, as it takes a lot of time to close all air bubbles in between the snow flakes. That happens at a certain depth where the pressure is high enough to transform the snow, then firn (densified snow still with open pores) into ice. The averaging happens partly because at first the firn pores are large enough to let the air in the pores and in the atmosphere exchange with each other, partly because some bubbles close early, others at a lower depth (thus contain air which is different in composition, “age”, than other already closed bubbles). The depth where this happens depends on the pressure from the layers above and the temperature of the ice. The time needed for full closure of all bubbles largely depends on the accumulation rate of snow at the place where the ice core is taken (or upstream if coring at a slope).
That makes that the average smoothing of CO2 levels is about 8 years (Law Dome 2 out of 3 ice cores, 1.2 m ice equivalent/year accumulation), some 21 years (the third Law Dome ice core, 0.6 m ice equivalent, see http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1996/95JD03410.shtml unfortunately behind a pay wall…), some 570 years (Dome C, a few mm/year, see http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v453/n7193/full/nature06949.html ) and everything in between. The Law Dome closing period of the bubbles was measured, while for Dome C one needed models to estimate the time resolution in the far past.
Thus the smaller the snowfall at a certain place, the longer it takes for the bubbles to fully close and the longer averaging one has. At the other side, the smaller the accumulation rate, the further we can look back in the past, as for the same depth of ice, there are many more years of snowfall.
The fact that the pores still are open over a long period, also means that there are differences in the age of the ice and the age of the enclosed gas. The age of the ice can be counted, as it simply is the result of ice formation from yearly snow accumulation where winter/summer snow density differences gives clearly distinguishable layers if there is sufficient accumulation. If, as depth increases, the pressure and/or flow result in layers that are near invisible, one may use several other methods like electro conduction or X-rays (see http://iopscience.iop.org/1742-6596/41/1/034/pdf/jpconf6_41_034.pdf ) to distinguish the layers/age.
Determining the gas age is not as easy. Over the years of accumulation of the snow/firn, the pressure builds up and the firn becomes more dense with decreasing pore diameter. That reduces the exchange of air in the pores with the air in the atmosphere, until the pores are too small to make any further exchange possible. If there has been considerable accumulation, as in the two fast Law Dome cores, at the depth of the first closing (about 72 meters) the ice is already 40 years old (40 layers), but the air has the average CO2 levels of less than 10 years ago, which makes the average gas age (including the average time for fully closing of all bubbles) about 30 years younger than the ice at the same depth. For the top layers, we have the advantage of direct measurements in the atmosphere for overlapping periods, which makes a comparison possible.
For cores with far less accumulation, the analysis is more problematic, as the difference increases with the reciprocal of the accumulation rate. During ice ages, there was less precipitation, thus increasing the ice age – gas age difference. The ice-gas age difference for the Vostok ice core is over 3,000 years. Be aware that the ice-gas age difference has nothing to do with the resolution of the CO2 levels, as these are in the bubbles themselves, but it makes a chronology of what happens between temperature (measured as dD and d18O proxy in the ice, see further) and CO2 levels (measured in the bubbles) more difficult to establish. But here also different techniques are used: diffusion speed is a matter of pore diameter, directly related to firn/ice density and densification speed is directly related to accumulation speed. This can be used to model the exchanges between air in the pores and the atmosphere.
The calculations to establish the gas age did fit quite well for the Law Dome ice cores, where besides ice age, the average gas age was established by measuring CO2 levels top down in the firn. That showed that the gas age at closing depth was less than 10 years old on average, but more importantly, the CO2 levels in the already fully closed bubbles and the still open pores were the same. For the low accumulation ice cores like Vostok, there is more discussion about the ice-gas age difference and different time scales were established…
The accuracy of the measurements in the three Law Dome ice cores for the same gas age is about 1.2 ppmv (1 sigma). Later works compared different ice cores for CO2 levels at the same average gas age. These show differences of only 5 ppmv, despite huge differences in average temperature (coastal -20°C, inland -40°C), salt inclusions (coastal), accumulation rate and resolution. There are a lot of overlapping periods between the ice cores, the resolution decreases with increasing length of period (from 150 years – for 2 of 3 Law Dome ice cores – to 800,000 years – Dome C), but even so, the measurements (done by different labs of different organizations) show a remarkable correspondence for the same average gas age. This is a nice indication that the CO2 levels of the ice cores indeed represent the ancient levels.
Data over the past 10,000 years of average gas age in ice cores from:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/current.html
As result, for the past 150 years (Law Dome) we have accurate data with a reasonable resolution. The cores average the CO2 levels over 8 years, so any peak of 20 ppmv during one year or 2 ppmv difference sustained over 10 years would be observable. For older periods, the resolution is less and the averaging applies to the full period of resolution (about 570 years for Dome C).
The visual correlation between temperature and CO2 levels in ice cores is well known to everybody, as that was used by Al Gore and many others, although he forgot to tell his audience that the CO2 levels lagged by some 800 years during a deglaciation and many thousands of years at the onset of new glaciations:
Data from the Vostok ice core via:
The temperature is derived from dD and d18O proxies in the ice. dD means the change in the deuterium/hydrogen ratio measured in the water molecules of the ice and d18O is the change in 18O/16O ratio of the water molecules in the ice. Both heavier isotopes of hydrogen resp. oxygen increase in ratio to the lighter ones, when the ocean temperature, from where the precipitation originates, increases. Thus the change in ratio is an indication of the ocean temperature changes. For coastal ice cores, that indicates the temperature changes in the nearby Southern Ocean, while the deep inland cores receive their precipitation from the more widespread SH oceans, thus representing the temperature changes of about the whole SH. The NH ocean temperature changes are more or less represented in the Greenland ice cores, which show similar changes (over the last about 120,000 years), but with some differences in timing and more detailed extreme events (like the Younger Dryas).
There is a remarkable near-linear ratio between ice core CO2 and the temperature proxy record in the same core over 420,000 years of Vostok. Work is under way to confirm this ratio in the 800,000 years of Dome C (for the overlapping period, the CO2 levels are already confirmed similar): about 8 ppmv/°C:
Data of the Vostok ice core from NOAA, temperature proxy indication shows zero at current temperature. From:
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/icecore/current.html
The spread in temperature/ CO2 data, mainly at the high side, is from the long lag of CO2 levels which remain high for thousands of years at the end of a warm period, while the temperature is dropping back to a minimum. The 8 ppmv/°C is not absolutely right, because temperature at best represents a hemispheric ocean temperature, but not far off, as the pCO2 in seawater dependency of temperature shows about 16 ppmv/°C. But besides pCO2 of seawater, other land and (deep) ocean items also play a role.
This all is an indication that temperature is not the cause of the sharp increase of CO2 in the last 150 years, as that wouldn’t give more than 8 ppmv (or 16 ppmv based on ocean solubility) increase with a maximum 1°C temperature increase since the depth of the LIA, while the current increase is over 100 ppmv.
Be aware that, besides some fractionation of the smallest atoms/molecules (not of CO2), and a small fractionation of isotopes, the bubbles still reflect the ancient atmosphere as it was. Ice core CO2 thus is not a proxy but a direct measurement, be it smoothed, of what actually happened in the (far) past.
The objections of Jaworowski:
What about the objections of Jaworowski against the reliability of ice cores (http://www.warwickhughes.com/icecore/ )?
Jaworowski assumes that CO2 “leaks” via cracks in the ice, caused by the drilling and pressure release of the deep core ice. But how can they measure 180-300 ppmv levels of CO2, when the outside world is at 380 ppmv? If cracks (and drilling fluid) are found in the ice, that would show levels which were too high, compared to other neighbouring layers, never too low.
The formation of clathrates (solid forms of O2, N2 and CO2 with water at very cold temperatures and high pressure) depletes CO2 levels, according to Jaworowski. This is well known in the ice core world. Therefore they allow the ice cores to relax up to a year after drilling. Moreover: O2 and N2 clathrates would decompose first, thus escaping as first via microcracks (as Jaworowski alleges). This would lead to too high CO2 levels, not too low.
Jaworowski accuses Neftel of “arbitrary” shifting the Siple data with 83 years to match the ice core CO2 with the Mauna Loa data. But the page from Neftel’s report ( http://www.biokurs.de/treibhaus/180CO2/neftel82-85.pdf ) contains two columns in the table: the counted ice age and the calculated gas age, the latter based on porosity measurements of the firn. Jaworoski used the age of the ice, not of the air bubbles, to base his accusation on, which is quite remarkable for a specialist in these matters. CO2 is in the air, not in the ice and the average age of the gas is (much) younger than the ice where it is enclosed. Neftel even made specific remarks about the gas age, which was compared to the South Pole atmospheric data, to confirm the average age of the gas bubbles at depth:
If the 328 p.p.m. measured at a depth of 68.5 m.b.s. [note: meters below surface] is matched with the atmospheric South Pole record, the mean gas age is 10 yr, corresponding to a difference between mean gas age and ice age of 82 yr, which lies in the above estimated range. The difference is used in calculating the mean gas age for all depths.
That the CO2 concentration measured on the subsequent samples from 72.5 and 76.5 m.b.s. corresponds with the atmospheric South Pole record justifies this age determination…
This clearly indicates that Neftel based his gas age estimate on firm grounds and there is nothing arbitrary in “shifting” the data, as there was no shifting at all. Thus for the Siple ice core, the ice age – gas age difference is about 82 years (Neftel estimated 80-85 years) for an average gas age resolution of about 22 years in this case.
Many of the objections of Jaworowski were answered by Etheridge (already in 1996) by drilling three cores at Law Dome, with three drilling methods (wet and dry), using different materials for sampling, avoiding cracks and clathrates, allowing a lot of relaxation time and measuring the CO2 levels top down in firn and ice. No difference was found in CO2 levels between firn and ice at closing depth and there is an overlap of some 20 years of the ice core CO2 data with the South Pole data:
Figure from Etheridge e.a.: http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/1996/95JD03410.shtml
See more comment and further links about Jaworowski at:
http://www.ferdinand-engelbeen.be/klimaat/jaworowski.html
The “corrections” of J.J. Drake:
JJ Drake (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/jdrake/Questioning_Climate/userfiles/Ice-core_corrections_report_1.pdf ) claimed to have established that the CO2 levels needed a correction for the ice-gas age difference. The result of the “correction” is that the CO2 levels are much higher with little variation and the very good correlation with temperature vanished. This conflicts already with our knowledge of the influence of temperature on CO2 levels in current times…
Even so, the “correction” might be all right, but the reason he provided has no bearing in any physical relationship. He makes the basic mistake of conflating a good correlation with a causation: The error is of the kind:
A causes B and shows a good correlation.
A causes C and shows a good corelation.
Thus B causes C, because there is a good correlation between the two. But that correlation is completely spurious, as there is not the slightest physical connection between B and C.
The explanation for his observation is quite simple:
Temperature (“A”) causes the ice-gas age lag (“B”), as temperature is directly connected with humidity of the atmosphere, thus influences the amount of snowfall, thus the accumulation rate and as reciprocal the speed of closing the bubbles: higher temperature, higher snowfall, smaller ice-gas difference.
Temperature (“A”) influences CO2 levels (“C”) directly: higher temperature means higher CO2 levels.
Because the previous two results have a high correlation with temperature, that gives that the ice-gas age difference and the CO2 levels also show a high correlation, but there is no physical mechanism that shows any direct or indirect action of ice-gas age difference on CO2 levels or vice versa. It is a completely spurious correlation, without any causation involved, but both share the same cause. Any “correction” of CO2 levels found in ice cores based on the correlation with ice-gas age difference is meaningless.
Migration of CO2 in ice cores
Ice shows a thin layer of unstructured (liquid waterlike) water molecules near the surface of the air bubbles. Some CO2 may dissolve in this layer, but that is not a problem at measurement time, as measurements are made at low temperature under vacuum, effectively removing all CO2 from the opened bubbles in the crushed ice, while removing any water vapor as ice over an extra cold trap. Water in-between the ice crystals is very unlikely, as there is still the direct influence of ordered structural ice from both sides.
Migration in even the oldest cores is no real problem. The recent fuss about “migration” speed was deduced from the Siple core, based on layers where remelting occurred, something not seen in any high elevation ice core like Vostok or Dome C. It remains to be seen to what extent the Siple Dome results are applicable to other ice cores.
But if there was even the slightest migration of CO2, that would affect the ppmv/°C ratio of the above Vostok CO2/temperature graph over time: the proxy temperature indication is fixed in the ice, while CO2 is measured in the gas bubbles. If there was any substantial migration of CO2, the ratio between CO2 and temperature over warm and cold periods would fade away over the recurrent 100,000 years of time difference between the warm periods, but that is not observed.
Conclusion
The ice cores are a reliable source of knowledge of ancient atmospheres, if handled with care. The resolution heavily depends of the accumulation rate, with as result that the data measured in enclosed air bubbles are smoothed, ranging from 8 years for the past 150 years to near 600 years for the past 800,000 years.
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Well, this may be true:
1. Conclusion
The ice cores are a reliable source of knowledge of ancient atmospheres, if handled with care. The resolution heavily depends of the accumulation rate, with as result that the data measured in enclosed air bubbles are smoothed, ranging from 8 years for the past 150 years to near 600 years for the past 800,000 years.
But it is true for the region where ice exists in a permanent form. So let us assume that we know what CO2 was and is at the icebergs. By construction where there are icebergs there is no vegetation an little organic CO2 even from neighboring oceans, due to the retention of CO2 by the cold water and the reluctance of green stuff to thrive at below zero temperatures.
The well mixed hypothesis is absolutely necessary in order to extrapolate CO2 content of the globe in time from ice cores. As I have said before, the CO2 measurements in latitude and longitude are so few and controlled by so few people, that it is foolish to think one has measured CO2 content of the world, particularly man made CO2, that is strong over cities, as Beck’s compilations have shown.
Satellite knowledge that is being filtered through the relentless AGW financial choke, still shows large variations of CO2 and questions well mixing. We should wait a few years of cooling, when purses will be opened for independent research on the CO2 subject before coming to any conclusions.
anna v says: (August 20, 2010 at 9:48 pm) Well, this may be true: …
An enlightening comment, Anna. Thank you.
Ferdinand Engelbeen has been arguing for some time that the observed increase of CO2 in the atmosphere is human made. Initially, my feeling was that this had not been properly established and that the increase would have been at least in part due to increasing (ocean) temperatures and/or the THC (Thermohaline Circulation), particularly in view of the generally accepted evidence that in the long term records CO2 concentrations lagged temperature by several hundred years . I have worked through the figures for both ocean temperature and THC in multiple ways, and am now satisfied that their contribution to atmospheric CO2 is small compared to fossil fuel emisions. I am not satisfied with my own findings, because they do nothing to explain the long term CO2 lag [does anyone have an explanation for it?], but they do lead me to accept that F.E. is correct. [Perhaps I should be more careful, and say “probably correct”, because my own amateur efforts may well be somewhat inadequate.]
Far more reliable than tree rings from bristlecones, which can differ due to soil, fertiliser, water and temperature conditions.
What other gases are found in the ice cores?
Any evidence for vulcanism in the past that would change the local atmospheric composition?
Geologists made the same mistakes prior to Mt. St. Helens, thinking that it took thousands of years to accumulate flows.
They soon found out just how rapidly things can happen.
What about empirical lab testing of the behavior of c02 trapping bubbles according to pressure?
“But how can they measure 180-300 ppmv levels of CO2, when the outside world is at 380 ppmv.”
Good question but there is a better one. Are the levels of CO2 in the air usually at or near 380 ppm at the drilling location at the time the drilling takes place ? We are considering very cold dry locations well away from natural CO2 sources.
“The formation of clathrates (solid forms of O2, N2 and CO2 with water at very cold temperatures and high pressure) depletes CO2 levels, according to Jaworowski. This is well known in the ice core world. Therefore they allow the ice cores to relax up to a year after drilling.”
How would allowing such “relaxation” reverse the earlier depletion ? Would the CO2 levels return to exactly those levels that originally obtained ?
I wonder how much of the natural CO2 level variation might be due to the ratio of animal resperation to plant resperation? Do plants predominate during the cold periods?
“the proxy temperature indication is fixed in the ice, while CO2 is measured in the gas bubbles. If there was any substantial migration of CO2, the ratio between CO2 and temperature over warm and cold periods would fade away over the recurrent 100,000 years of time difference between the warm periods, but that is not observed.”
Unless the proxy temperature indication changes over time as well. We already have one good illustration of unreliable temperature proxies in the form of those pine trees. An awful lot of this stuff is a leap of faith.
“I have worked through the figures for both ocean temperature and THC in multiple ways, and am now satisfied that their contribution to atmospheric CO2 is small compared to fossil fuel emisions.”
Then why the absence of any irregularities in the rising CO2 slope that correspond with irregularities in human CO2 emissions ? There should be such irregularities within a steadily increasing angle of curve but neither are present.
A long slow steady slope requires a long slow steady cause and that brings us back to the undoubted global temperature cycling from MWP to LIA to date.
It is possible to have volcanoes erupt causing lower earth temps with a high CO2 content in the air.
Even if we are responsible for some fraction of the CO2 found in the atmosphere today, the question remains… is CO2 really responsible for climate change?
Stephen Wilde has a very good point there.
All indications show human activity is growing in a non linear way.
How come then that CO2 measurements are showing a linear rising?
It just does not make sense.
In addition, I am still waiting fro the punch line of proof that CO2 is the cause of climate change, and not, say, the sun.
It seems a lot of energy is spent here on a none issue.
FTA: “Many respondents still are not convinced that the mass balance is a firm proof that the observed increase of CO2 in the atmosphere is human made.”
That’d be because it isn’t. Your argument was ad ignorantiam and very weak.
“That makes that the average smoothing of CO2 levels is about 8 years.”
A synonym for “smoothing” is “averaging”, whether of the “autoregressive” or “moving average” type, or combination therof. So, you are speculating on the average averaging which takes place. What are the poles and zeros? Where are the notches and where does it balloon? What, specifically, is the frequency response? You don’t know, do you?
The rest of this article is just so much hand-waving. Even if you can claim a match between measurements since 1958 and what the ice cores say, you still have to assume, or speculate on reasons why, the relationship extends back into the centuries past.
You can rationalize it all you want, and determine what you think is likely, but until you have traveled back in time and confirmed the readings, it really is nothing more than an hypothesis.
Stephen Wilde says:
August 20, 2010 at 10:35 pm
“Then why the absence of any irregularities in the rising CO2 slope that correspond with irregularities in human CO2 emissions ? There should be such irregularities within a steadily increasing angle of curve but neither are present.”
e_por says:
August 20, 2010 at 11:23 pm
“How come then that CO2 measurements are showing a linear rising?”
Yes! As I discussed with Joel here.
rbateman says:
August 20, 2010 at 10:14 pm
“Geologists made the same mistakes prior to Mt. St. Helens, thinking that it took thousands of years to accumulate flows. They soon found out just how rapidly things can happen.”
Exactly my point. Those of us who have to build actual working mechanisms know only too well that nature is pernicious, and you must expect the unexpected. You may think you have covered every base, only to find the game isn’t baseball. Without solid confirmation from experiment or use, everything on the drawing board is vaporware.
clathrates aside, what about the existence of water within ice at a large range of p/t?
not only that but ice itself is a FLUID and behaves very dynamically. Huge lakes exist under the ice and the water didnt just melt down the bottom. It flows through the ice. I totaly disagree that ice bubbles are a closed system. Ice cores are interesting and there is a lot too learn about climate science from them. But ice bubbles are not a record of the past atmosphere, they are only a relict from it. The geological record shows much higher CO2 in the past when climates were relatively cool. Fossil evidence such as stomatal indicies show much greater variation in CO2, which is more probable due to variability in volcanism.
@RAYQ MCMULLEN says: August 20, 2010 at 11:01 pm
“Even if we are responsible for some fraction of the CO2 found in the atmosphere today, the question remains… is CO2 really responsible for climate change?”
Absolutely right.
OK, there is SOME evidence temperatures have risen over the last century.
There is a fair amount of evidence that the trace gas CO2 levels have risen over the last century.
There is solid evidence that mans’ CO2 emissions are by no means entirely responsible for the increase.
That still leaves us with the unanswered questions:-
Cause?
Effect?
Co-incidence?
“The ice cores are a reliable source of knowledge of ancient atmospheres”
The plants seems to disagree:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/stomata.html
Ferdinand Engelbeen, why the emphatic “either/or” when asking of the source of the excess CO2? Basic science says it is not an “either/or” question or source, colder water holds more dissolved CO2, warmth speeds up all chemical reactions including fixation AND liberation reactions concerning CO2 or any substance for that matter, the list goes on and on. So why the either/or? Does man burn all kinds of compounds which all release CO2, yes, but the question is still moot.
I read recently that there are approximately 30 major underground coal fires burning around the world that are known to be set by lightning where the coal intersects the surface, they will burn for decades with no real way to put them out, millions of tons of CO2 per year being ejected into the atmosphere. Would we have been better mining it and using the energy instead of the total waste as it now is. The peat fires burning in Russia today, man made or natural? If we mine the peat and burn it to gen electricity or heat homes are they then man made CO2 sources instead of letting them burn naturally? If we burn coal that may be the 31st natural coal fire is this man made? How about all of the natural gas that seeps from countless spots and cracks in the Earth around the world, some I have personally seen seeping here in central US fields through cracks, if we drill and extract the gas and relieve the pressure that is causing the seepage is that then man made CO2 but if we let it pass unburned to the atmosphere to naturally oxidize is it then natural CO2? See, the question is not so easily man-made or natural but more of a blend, especially if we find in the future that the sun had something to do with this small warming over the last few decades you seem to be addressing.
Some might not believe me above so here a true story. In college some buddies and I went to rent a house. We found a farm house, dirt cheap about two miles from town, $160 a month I think. I asked the realtor what the pipe sticking out of the ground was about ten yards from the porch and leading into the house. I said water? He said no sonny, over there, is your water well, that’s your gas well. Gas well? How much a month? He looked like I was crazy to even ask and said, it’s YOUR gas well, there’s no meter. You must be from the city. We passed it because of the two miles to campus but I still remember wishing we would have grabbed that one every time I wrote the checks for the utilities.
Your bubbles in the ice cores is interesting but I don’t find it very convincing. We have had good scientists over many decades in the past measuring CO2 and you and many like you find it hard to trust their work but you trust 100% bubbles in ice cores in Antarctica?
And what about the other gases in the bubbles? Bound to find methane right? How about the spontaneous hydrogen that any evacuated canister of glass, copper, steel that over time will have hydrogen found inside? How about the chemical reactions that these decade old bubbles go through. I don’t know, you don’t give enough information.
Most of the major scientific constants were known to three+ digits by the mid 1800’s by good scientists and everyone knows the number of digits has increased dramatically of late with the equipment we now have. Well, that is except gravity to five or six and I just wish we could honestly peg man’s influence on CO2 in it’s totality to two digits before I pass on, with all factors I mentioned above included.
You might think it’s all man’s CO2 but I still have doubts on that matter. Need more and better data to convince me. Do I think a portion is from mankind, of course.
Stephen Wilde wrote:
“Then why the absence of any irregularities in the rising CO2 slope that correspond with irregularities in human CO2 emissions ? There should be such irregularities within a steadily increasing angle of curve but neither are present.
A long slow steady slope requires a long slow steady cause and that brings us back to the undoubted global temperature cycling from MWP to LIA to date.”
Good point. But CO2 levels are also affected by biological activity hence the annual variability in the Mauna Loa measurements. Seasonal variation (temp and precip) affects biological activity. As has been pointed out here on many occasions, the earth’s climate system consists of myriad interwoven variables.
Having watched Ferdinand argue his case over a long time, I suspect that he is substantially correct. If Jaborowski wants to make his case, then he needs to perform some experiments demonstrating CO2 migration through the ice. Personally, I’m looking forward to the results of the million year core.
Actually there is evidence that the “smoothing” may be rather more of a problem than usually admitted, at least for older records. Measurement of CO2 from SOI (stomata) show rather sharp changes (50-100 ppm) at the beginning and end of the Younger Dryas (as might be expected) which are completely invisible in the ice-core record (ref e. g. Earth and Planetary Science Letters 213 (2003) 191-204).
There is also a unique sequence from Denmark through much of the last interglacial (http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Reference_Docs/Last_interglacial_CO2_stomata_Rundgren_etal_2005.pdf)
which also indicates a much more variable CO2 concentration than the ice cores.
There is also a consistent tendency for the SOI measurements, irrespective of age to show moderately higher values (on the order of a few tens of ppm).
Also that 8 year figure for Law dome has always seemed quite implausible to me. Closure occurs when firn turns to ice, which happens at a depth of 90-100 meter. Surely there is not a 10+ meter-per-year accumulation rate at Law Dome? However there is another closure mechanism that may complicate matters in marginal areas of Antarctica. If there is a widespread melting event (which do happen in some parts of Antarctica), then the firn below the ice layer that forms on re-freezing will be effectively sealed from the atmosphere.
“But how can they measure 180-300 ppmv levels of CO2, when the outside world is at 380 ppmv?”
This is not entirely convincing. 380 ppmv is the average CCO2 level in the earth’s atmosphere, but it varies considerably from one location to another and may not have been the local level when the drilling was performed.
Ben says:
“Huge lakes exist under the ice and the water didnt just melt down the bottom. ”
In Antarctica it most certainly did. The subglacial lakes in interior Antarctica are caused by local geothermic basal melting of the ice. The ice above them is well below zero centigrade and has definitely been that way for 800,000 years, and probaly for several millions of year.
It seems funny to me that the Vostok ice core atmospheric CO2 level graph for the past 400,000 years shows CO2 levels below that which will sustain plant life. As far as I know plants have never had problems growing and reproducing, if they had we would not be here now. Another problem with this paper is that the annual global CO2 budget contains both natural and anthropomorphic productions. According to the US Dept. of Energy our bit of this is 3%. This is way below the errors accrued of the estimations of natural producers.
This paper also assumes that the theory of Greenhouse warming due to GHG’s is correct. The laws of thermodynamics show this theory to be false so CO2 is absolutely no problem.