Joe Lieberman: US senate still short votes needed to pass "climate" bill

File:Joe Lieberman official portrait.jpg

From CNN and Wire reports

Senator Joe Lieberman, was on CNN Sunday and said about 50 senators support the Kerry sponsored “climate” bill. However, 30 others remain opposed.

Estimates are that approximately 20 senators remain undecided. Time to call your senators and explain to them why this bill is bad for America

AP reports that:

A major sticking point has been the bill’s approach to carbon emissions, which are blamed for global warming. Mr. Lieberman said capping carbon pollution and putting a price on it is at the heart of the bill. Republicans reject the idea of a carbon tax.

Apparently he’s scheduled in a meeting with Obama on Wednesday to discuss the issue.

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53 thoughts on “Joe Lieberman: US senate still short votes needed to pass "climate" bill

  1. I never bother calling my idiot senators because they invariably pick the wrong side of the issue and then thank me for my input which will be ignored completely.
    Lieberman better be a golfer to get that meeting, the golf course is where you find the President these days.

  2. Just encourage them to stay undecided and refuse to hold a vote – August 9 is when Congress goes on recess and starts electioneering seriously. That’s just 6 weeks away, and there are a lot of other things for them to do between now and them.
    Kill the clock any way possible, and we can win this round.

  3. Powerful people do not give up power easily. As has been said: “True power is never given, it is always taken.” The only way to stop the climate tax business, in all its guises, is to remove those whose power depends on it becoming a reality. That includes not only the politicians, but those who support them. Corporate Boards need to hear from their major shareholders and the general public, and redirect their lobbyists efforts. Wall street must be given a message that investing in the future of carbon trading is a sure loser.

  4. The best way to fight this bill is to remind your Senator that Cap’n Trade was invented 10 years ago by Enron and BP, with emphasis on BP’s role.
    Telling them about the fake consensus, or the ginned up “science”, or even the economic stupidity of it is a waste on most current supporters, but BP is really toxic now (and for the foreseeable future).

  5. The cap-and-trade bill is not about “cutting greenhouse gas emissions.” It’s about taxation and people control. Morever, the AGW theory has been thoroughly discredited. Not only is there no measurable warming from CO2; there is no such thing as an atmospheric “greenhouse effect.” It’s a physical impossibility.
    See “Rescue from the Climate Saviors”:
    http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2010/06/rescue-from-climate-saviors.html
    Also see this paper by Gerhard Gerlich and Ralf D. Tscheuschner:
    http://arxiv.org/PS_cache/arxiv/pdf/0707/0707.1161v4.pdf

  6. The same guy has a 25% approval rating and wants the government to totally own the Internet – unrelated?

  7. Very interesting to watch how left and green ideas, together with greed, political stupidity and corrupted science are set up to destroy the economic power of the West within a very short period of time, historically speaking.
    No doubt, there will be a number of countries cheering about it. But not your friends.

  8. Kirk Myers says:
    June 21, 2010 at 6:37 am
    …. Morever, the AGW theory has been thoroughly discredited. Not only is there no measurable warming from CO2; there is no such thing as an atmospheric “greenhouse effect.” It’s a physical impossibility.

    CAGW skeptic scientists like Fred Singer, Richard Lindzen, Roy Spencer, etc, are the first to affirm the existence of a GHG effect, and that some of it is anthropogenic. What they doubt is that the human component is big enough in comparison to natural factors to get excited about — the “Catastrophic” part of CAGW.
    I trust Anthony would agree.

  9. This is great. It appears the vote on this climate bill will get pushed off to November for a different kind of a vote.
    It’s called the general election.
    That’s when climate bill supporters will get the vote they fear the most.
    The one which shows them the door.

  10. I’m just so fed up with Congressmen who seem to be scientific morons. Can’t we give the a simple science exam before they’re sworn in? The President too. Seriously, they seem to have zero understanding of basic scientific principles and yet they are willing and eager to spend billions of our money without any understanding of the science behind the bills.

  11. It is not a “climate” bill. The climate is not controlled by some little people expressing a vote and fleecing the flock.

  12. I live in NJ and both of my senators have drunk the AGW kool-aide. I have called them, faxed them and e-mailed them with absolutely no effect and unfortunately, neither are up for election. I hope those of you in other states have better luck.

  13. It is always a matter of a clever choice: To be or not to be, to be remembered or to be forgotten for ever.
    ♫♫♫♫
    For what is a man, what has he got?
    If not himself, then he has naught.
    To say the things he truly feels;
    And not the words of one who kneels.
    The record shows I took the blows –
    And did it my way!
    …. ♫♫♫♫

  14. Well, one of my Senators is John Faux Kerry. ‘Nuff said.
    However, I’m happy to report that the other is now Scott Brown. And he’s not going to vote for Crap and Tax.
    There’s hope for Massachusetts yet!
    /Mr Lynn

  15. Hu McCulloch:
    “CAGW skeptic scientists like Fred Singer, Richard Lindzen, Roy Spencer, etc, are the first to affirm the existence of a GHG effect, and that some of it is anthropogenic. ”
    That’s not quite correct as our atmosphere is not a greenhouse. There is no ceiling which prevents convection of heat away from the surface. Thus, no greenhouse. These gases are best described as “heat-trapping” gases, but CO2 is a poor one as it only absorbs in two narrow ranges and one of these overlaps/conflicts with water vapor. It is only the bad science of assuming that water vapor is a strong positive feedback factor that allows the AGW junk science construct to pretend that CO2 can cause warming. In a real greenhouse, water vapor may actually be a positive forcing factor but, as water vapor is part of a huge global heat engine called the water cycle (middle school science), it is in fact a strong negative feedback factor.
    The recent work by Miskolczi and Zagoni not only show that these two gases essentially exert a constant effect, one displacing the other, but, as CO2 is a weaker heat-trapping gas than water vapor, displacing water vapor by rising CO2 may actually cause a slight cooling of the climate.
    The amount of heat-trapping by CO2 is still open to debate, but it is, in all real science discussions, small and inconsequential to climate or man, and certainly not something to do anything about. We should let technology and efficiency do its own thing and our energy sources will evolve logically to a useful mixture without government interference, which will only hinder development anyhow, as it always does.
    Also, Venus’s atmosphere at 90+ atm pressure, 98% CO2, and 500 deg C is not a greenhouse either. A greenhouse is based on radiation reaching the surface and being reradiated as infrared. On Venus, solar radiation does not reach the surface, being blocked by the upper level permanent cloud deck. The high temperatures of Venus can be easily explained by the high atmospheric pressure. Not a greenhouse.

  16. Joe Lieberman is as independent as I am a liberal. The only reason he became an independent was because the Democrats threw him under the bus. A Lib is a Lib is a Lib. You can’t trust them.

  17. No way should we look across the ocean and see how well it has worked out for the EU.
    Even with the BP oil disaster, there is no stomach for a fight like the one that would be generated if it was to be taken for a vote. The mood of the electorate is a little angry right now. The senators know they can’t bring it to a vote right before the election.

  18. The most odious and repellent part of the “climate change” debate is dealing with politicians. Yeah, intermingling with “advocates” and “journalists” and “climate scientists” is objectionable.
    But politicians are absolutely the worst.

  19. Curiousgeorge says:
    June 21, 2010 at 7:40 am
    “Possibly related: China is set to surpass the USA in manufacturing output next year.”
    From the article you referenced. “……… but is poised to relinquish this slot in 2011 to China – thus ending a 110-year run as the number one country in factory production.”
    Sigh. its as if we don’t even want to be the top producer anymore. And the same pinheads that allowed this and the throttle on American production will wonder where all the jobs are.

  20. ” Hu McCulloch says:
    June 21, 2010 at 7:30 am
    Kirk Myers says:
    June 21, 2010 at 6:37 am
    …. Morever, the AGW theory has been thoroughly discredited. Not only is there no measurable warming from CO2; there is no such thing as an atmospheric “greenhouse effect.” It’s a physical impossibility.
    CAGW skeptic scientists like Fred Singer, Richard Lindzen, Roy Spencer, etc, are the first to affirm the existence of a GHG effect, and that some of it is anthropogenic.

    I would like to point out that Lindzen argues at least in part along the same lines as the (very good IMHO) paper Kirk linked to, see
    http://www-eaps.mit.edu/faculty/lindzen/cooglobwrm.pdf
    “for example, at altitudes between 25 and 90 km, the atmosphere is cooled primarily by thermal radiation emitted to space by CO2.”.

  21. Everywhere in the Westminster parliamentary system, the politicians in power tend to no longer ask their electors what should they do, they make up policy after they are elected and only take advice from their pet advisers. The English, Australian and New Zealand Prime Ministers all share the same bucket of Kool-ade, although it seems the Australian has had to put his ETS scheme on hold. John Key, NZ PM has pushed his ETS through parliament into law and already consumers’ energy costs have risen sharply. The English Climate Change minister has upbraided the Europeans for not setting thier emission-reduction targets high enough and seems hell-bent on covering the UK with the ridiculous fans-on-a-pole and destroying the UK landscape along with the country’s economy. Hopefully, the dire state of the world economy will prevent these lunatics doing too much damage until general realisation that ‘warm is good’ sinks in.
    What happened to the ideal of ‘servants of the people’?

  22. They also said they didn’t have enough votes for health care reform. Then they played around with the rules, did some other things, and wound up passing… Well it didn’t look like any sort of “reform” ordinary people wanted, certainly not what they were told it would be and do. But hey, it was done to honor Ted Kennedy’s Great Legacy, therefore it was all good.
    Now we have a bunch of the old liberal types going away, they either lost their primaries or are about to, or go down in ignoble defeat come November, if they haven’t already announced their retirements. They are thinking about their Great Legacies. And one of their planned Great Accomplishments they’ve wanted since they were protesting in the 1960’s and ’70’s (or at least can imagine they could have been) is to SAVE THE EARTH! That, and get pot legalized.
    They’re making great strides on the pot in California and some other places, so that’s in process. Which leaves on the To-Do-Before-I’m-Outta-Here list…
    Stay vigilant.

  23. Call my 2 Calif. Senators??? Ha ha ha ha ha…. you’ve got to be kidding me.
    Bad for America as in hike taxes at the worst possible time… drive costs up… destroy jobs…
    what’s in there that they don’t like?
    Cap&Trade is an economic hand-grenade.
    20 Senators don’t want to touch this issue with Joe’s 10 foot pole.

  24. Hu McCulloch says:
    June 21, 2010 at 7:30 am
    …Fred Singer, Richard Lindzen, Roy Spencer, etc, are the first to affirm the existence of a GHG effect…
    This only shows that no one is perfect.
    These guys may have been throwing a bone to the warm-earthers, I don’t know. There is no “greenhouse”. There is no “greenhouse effect”. There would have to be a transparent, hard dome over the stratosphere to keep convective and conductive effects from allowing heat to escape to the exosphere and into space.
    There are also physical reasons other scientists have explained, having to do with the weak absorption of CO2 in the important wavelengths, and the superior absorption of water, for the “greenhouse” explanation for a global warming effect to be completely a bankrupt idea.

  25. “”about 50 senators support the Kerry sponsored “climate” bill””
    thank you for making voting a lot easier this year………..

  26. The article of Hans Bader, Obama’s actions prevent timely clean-up by U.S. allies, Jun 20, 2010, (ICECAP) has opened my eyes.
    “The BP clean-up effort in the Gulf of Mexico is hampered by the Jones Act. So…the U.S. Coast Guard…can’t accept … the assistance of high-tech European vessels.” (David Warren in the Ottawa Citizen)
    During the Hurricane Katrina crisis five years ago, the Bush administration waived the Jones Act in order to facilitate some foreign assistance, but such a waiver was not given in this case.
    The unions see it [not waiving the act] as protecting jobs. They hate when the Jones Act gets waived.
    – Is it possible that Obama is now using BP’s oil spill to push the global-warming legislation that BP had lobbied for?
    – Is is possible that Obama wil misuse the BP spill to let pass the cap-and-trade bill? The moment comes closer that the BP spill will have such huge dimensions that Americans will agree with whatever the president asks. Will he hazard the environment of this part of the world to acquire enough votes to let pass the cap-and-trade bill? It’s a dangerous and most blameworthy idea and I hope this is only a nightmare.
    Nevertheless, I am asking why, after two months of oil spill,
    – we are not informed by the White House of the exact volume of oil spill;
    – after the failures of BP, the White House has not yet taken the whole affair under their control. When a disaster has happened, the first measure is to make an end to the disaster. However the American government rests silent.
    This disaster has implications for the whole world. In that case, the president has to allow all available means to stop the spill, even the assistance of other countries. I hope Obama is not kidnapping the whole mankind, only to lett pass the cap-and-trade bill in his country. Action is needed and not only abuses to the BP-management.
    Please, let me know where I am wrong.

  27. Charles Higley says:
    June 21, 2010 at 8:50 am

    Funny, there is an analogy of some peoples’ skulls with the earth: They have no ceilings, so convection takes all their thoughts out. ☺

  28. @Kirk
    I glanced at the second paper about physically impossible atmospheric greenhouse but didn’t spend much time on it. While it’s true that the greenhouse effect is a misnomer in that glass greenhouses block convective heat transfer and that’s something that greenhouse gases don’t do. What greenhouse gases do is act like just like insulation. Like attic insulation only transparent to visible light. Infrared radiation coming out of the ground at night is absorbed by CO2 molecules in two or three narrow frequency bands. The infrared energy is re-emitted by the CO2 molecules but is random in direction – a portion of which is downward. This effectively slows down the radiation of energy from the ground to space at night. If everything else remains the same the ground will get a little warmer raising the temperature differential between it and the cold of space. The higher temperature differential drives the radiation through the insulating barrier quicker until a new equilibrium point is established.
    The physics aren’t complicated. As most people know, or will learn from experience, dry air makes the temperature drop much faster when the sun goes down versus humid air. Water vapor is a much more ubiquitous greenhouse gas but it works the same way as CO2 only with different absorption bands. I believe this is explained in high school level physics class since it’s such a common experience that begs for an scientific explanation of the same kind and confidence level as why the sky is blue.
    One might protest that the greenhouse gases will block infrared coming in from the sun during the day and that’s quite true. The difference is that if you look at the energy spectrum of sunlight the lion’s share is in visible wavelengths. The visible frequency energy passes through the greenhouse gases with little attenuation. So the visible light is either absorbed by the ground or reflected from it. Most of it is absorbed, give or take, depending on the ground surface reflectivity. The portion absorbed during the day all comes out at night as infrared where the greenhouse gases serve slow it down. The net result is that humid sunny days don’t get quite as warm as they would on a dry day (everything else being equal) but humid nights are a lot warmer than they otherwise would on a dry night.
    Or take the moon as another natural demonstration. The surface temperature varies by some 600 degrees F between day and night. Some of that is due to being in the sun 14 days and in the dark 14 days but most of it is due to having no atmosphere and hence no greenhouse effect. Not surprisingly, since the moon’s average albedo is in the same ballpark as the earth, the average surface temperature on the moon is about the same as the average surface temperature of the ocean.
    What we need to be afraid of is when global cooling comes along. There’s a reason the average temperture of the ocean is only 41F. That’s the real average temperature of the surface over a full glacial cycle of 100,000 years or so. The thermal mass of the atmosphere is at least a thousand times less in comparison. It’ll take a lot more than CO2 to warm it any significant amount. An average surface temperature today of 56F isn’t going to do it unless it persists for tens of thousands of years which seems unlikely if the past is any guide to the future.

  29. “Dave Springer says:
    June 21, 2010 at 10:31 am
    @Kirk
    I glanced at the second paper about physically impossible atmospheric greenhouse but didn’t spend much time on it. While it’s true that the greenhouse effect is a misnomer in that glass greenhouses block convective heat transfer and that’s something that greenhouse gases don’t do. What greenhouse gases do is act like just like insulation.[…]”
    One of they key arguments of the paper you didn’t glance at for long is that the amount of energy transferred by LWIR backradiation is dwarfed by the amount of energy transported by convection. So maybe glance again.
    Also, insulating materials are fixed in place for a reason. If we want to exchange heat, we make materials go around for a reason. Convection makes things go around.

  30. One other thing, related to climate and the various alt energy, etc. agendas, that often doesn’t enter the public consciousness is food. And how all this plays into standard of living and land use. An interesting post from Progessive Farmer http://www.dtnprogressivefarmer.com/dtnag/common/link.do?symbolicName=/free/news/template1&paneContentId=5&paneParentId=70104&product=/ag/news/topstories&vendorReference=0353b2fa-34a2-481b-912d-1cb46058ad3a : “Future Farms: More Land for Food? As World Food Demand Grows, Where and How Much Food Can be Produced?………………over the longer term, worldwide demand growth is exceeding productivity growth by 1 percent to 4 percent per year, according to studies by William Wilson, ag economist and distinguished professor at North Dakota State University.”
    We will soon top 7billion world population. All of whom want more energy, more food, more stuff of all descriptions. Farmers can only produce so much. Land that is used for other purposes detracts from the land used to grow crops for food. Granted that much land is available that is cannot be used for food, but there is supporting infrastructure (roads, etc. ) that must be built to use it for alt energy. There are many tradeoffs (water among them ) to be considered, and not all lead to a win-win.
    My greatest fear is that this administration and their environmentalist lackeys are pursuing a lose-lose agenda — as evidenced by their pronouncements and actions relative to agriculture, manufacturing and overall standard of living. This being all in the name of “saving the planet” from carbon.
    What good results from saving the planet if no one is left to enjoy it?

  31. You lucky guys over the pond (from here in the UK). We already have a Climate bill passed. It is costing us $27 billion per year. This new government wants to cut back. All they have done is to shave a mere $100 million of the ‘climate’ budget.

  32. Rik Gheysens says:
    June 21, 2010 at 10:23 am
    The article of Hans Bader, Obama’s actions prevent timely clean-up by U.S. allies, Jun 20, 2010, (ICECAP) has opened my eyes.
    – “The BP clean-up effort in the Gulf of Mexico is hampered by the Jones Act. ….
    This disaster has implications for the whole world. In that case, the president has to allow all available means to stop the spill, even the assistance of other countries. I hope Obama is not kidnapping the whole mankind, only to lett pass the cap-and-trade bill in his country. Action is needed and not only abuses to the BP-management.
    Please, let me know where I am wrong.
    _____________________________________________________________
    I am afraid this may be a case of it really is “worse than we thought” I do not have the expertise to determine if this is true or a bunch of hot air, I hope it is hot air:
    “….Nothing makes sense unless you take this into account, but after you do…you will see the “sense” behind what has happened and what is happening. That conclusion is this:
    The well bore structure is compromised “Down hole”. ….”

    [In other words the well casing pipe is cracked and therefore there is no way to stop the leak.]
    “…What does this mean?
    It means they will never cap the gusher after the wellhead. They cannot…the more they try and restrict the oil gushing out the bop?…the more it will transfer to the leaks below….
    A down hole leak is dangerous and damaging for several reasons.
    There will be erosion throughout the entire beat up, beat on and beat down remainder of the “system” including that inaccessible leak. The same erosion I spoke about in the first post is still present and has never stopped, cannot be stopped, is impossible to stop and will always be present in and acting on anything that is left which has crude oil “Product” rushing through it. There are abrasives still present, swirling flow will create hot spots of wear and this erosion is relentless and will always be present until eventually it wears away enough material to break it’s way out. It will slowly eat the bop away especially at the now pinched off riser head and it will flow more and more. Perhaps BP can outrun or keep up with that out flow with various suckage methods for a period of time, but eventually the well will win that race, just how long that race will be?…no one really knows….However now?…there are other problems that a down hole leak will and must produce that will compound this already bad situation.
    This down hole leak will undermine the foundation of the seabed in and around the well area. It also weakens the only thing holding up the massive Blow Out Preventer’s immense bulk of 450 tons. In fact?…we are beginning to the results of the well’s total integrity beginning to fail due to the undermining being caused by the leaking well bore…..”

    The article is from a comment and is fairly lengthy explanation of what is (maybe) happening. It is well worth a read. Deepwater Oil Spill – A Longer Term Problem…

  33. Is this all just a suicide pact?
    Surely, the leaders of other countries who have enacted carbon trading schemes have seen the inability of these schemes to make a real difference in CO2 production while recognizing the incredible efficiency at which energy costs are driven up and, subsequently (and necessarily so), economies are driven down. They must realize that if all the misery heaped upon the the citizenry was a result of an engineered scam there would be massive revolt. However, if the US and other stragglers were to sign on, they might be given a pass with the ability to claim, “See, we were all taken in. We’re just as upset as you are!” (Only not as impoverished) Of course, ALL scientists would be seen as the scapegoats, inevitably thrown under the bus by the very politicians from whom so many eagerly accepted funding.
    So, Obama is NOBLY trying to prevent global chaos, kinda like Henry Fonda deciding to bomb NYC to prevent global thermonuclear war in the move “Fail-Safe”.

  34. Dave Springer
    June 21, 2010 at 10:31 am
    Water behaves the way you describe, but it is also capable of existing as all three phases in the naturally occuring temp. range of the earth. Thus the impact of clouds on the earth’s albedo and the impact of the arctic and antarctic ice melting and freezing as summer turns to winter and back again, to mention but a few, are important factors in determining the earth’s climate. Any description of our incredibly complex climate needs, IMHO, fully to understand and quantify the impact of these diverse properties before even daring to predict the future. It seems to me that the survival of the earth and its ability to support life over many millions of years implies a stability that is unlikely to be significantly dented by a trace gas in the atmosphere.

  35. your not fooling anyone.the citizens of america will stop this Bogus! cap and trade bull.how dare you try to pull of a fraudulent scam on your own country.it is the most absurd arrogant move ever attempted by anyone holding the keys to americas future.you have absoulutely no shame. and we know why–you don’t really love us at all.you love yourself more then anything. you sure know how to hurt peoples feelings.if i was your mamma i’d spank you so hard you would’nt be able to sit down for a week.

  36. Doug in Seattle says:
    June 21, 2010 at 6:32 am
    The best way to fight this bill is to remind your Senator that Cap’n Trade was invented 10 years ago by Enron and BP, with emphasis on BP’s role.

    that would work in a normal world, however, all of our congresscritters are employed by said large corporations, are completely aware of their role in writing said legislation for them, and are in on the scam. it’s all about taxes and profits.
    Vinny says:
    June 21, 2010 at 9:05 am
    Joe Lieberman is as independent as I am a liberal.

    lieberman is neither, the “I” after his name stands for Israel, he is a right wing Likud fanatic. only the blinding ignorance of americans who somehow believe there is a left and right in this country allow the man into office. i consider the man more despicable than any other politician in america, possibly even bush and obama 😉
    he is the least concerned with happens to americans…his concerns are, in order: lieberman, the banks and corporations that own lieberman,and israel.

  37. Rik Gheysens says:
    June 21, 2010 at 10:23 am
    The article of Hans Bader, Obama’s actions prevent timely clean-up by U.S. allies, Jun 20, 2010, (ICECAP) has opened my eyes.
    – after the failures of BP, the White House has not yet taken the whole affair under their control. When a disaster has happened, the first measure is to make an end to the disaster. However the American government rests silent.
    Not only that, but the fact remains that BP was ONLY contracting to have this well drilled. I’m not trying to decrease the responsibility of BP in this matter, only pointing out that BP lacked the technical ability to drill this well in the first place. And yet, somehow, they are equipped with the ability to cap a well they can’t even drill? If BP is simply contracting those who DO have the expertise in such matters, then wouldn’t the federal government have just as much ability to hire these “experts”? If this administration is bound and determined to cast BP as the villain, it makes no sense whatsoever to continue to include them in the process of capping the well.
    Unless of course you have some sort of agreement with BP to accept a public lashing while inconspicuously allowing them to profit enormously from NOT producing as much fossil fuel (ie, cap and tax.)

  38. This is no different than the existing natural leakage which is several million barrels/year. Just adds some percentage, and will lessen over time as the pressures equalize. It’s not like the oil is in some giant pressurized cavern; it’s infused into porous rock and will leak out accordingly. This is the entire problem with the Gulf; there is no capstone, the seabed is relatively highly fractured, and thus there is nothing to stop any leakage.

  39. Charles Higley says:
    June 21, 2010 at 8:50 am
    “heat-trapping” gases
    A small quibble. There is no such thing as trapping heat. If it was infact “trapped” alarmist would not need think about it. Heat cannot be trapped.
    Anyway according the wavelenghts that CO2 absorbs 2.4, 4.7, and 14.77 mirco of which only the 14.77 (call it 15) effects us. That equates to a temperature of around 200K. Wien’s Law.
    Some assistance on a thought. For alarmist to be correct the following has to be true.
    black body radiation from CO2 > than conduction and convection from surface.
    Ps = black body radiation from Sun
    Pe = black body radiation from Earth
    Pc = black body radiation from CO2
    H = conduction
    q = convection
    Ps + Pc > H + q + Pe
    Ps = Pe
    So Pc > H + q
    What would be a reasonable surface area of CO2? I have to figure the number of CO2 molecules in a square meter.
    Also if the CO2 radiation falls on a leaf, or a person, or water there is no warming, so does that mean that the alarmist are saying all the warming is caused be 50% (down part) of the CO2 radiation on less than 30% of the earth?

  40. After seeing these guys cross-examining the BP Chairman, I am convinced that however low you set the bar on intellect, they will queue up to limbo under it.

  41. Gail Combs says:
    June 21, 2010 at 11:45 am
    “The article is from a comment and is fairly lengthy explanation of what is (maybe) happening. It is well worth a read. Deepwater Oil Spill – A Longer Term Problem…”
    Thanks for that link… sort of. Wow, do I ever hope those observations are wrong!!! If not this is seriously depressing.
    And, imagine, if this problem had not happened, this would have been a world class discovery… now its a world class disaster than could get much, much worse.
    Meanwhile, on another tangent…
    “The Spill, The Scandal and the President – The inside story of how Obama failed to crack down on the corruption of the Bush years – and let the world’s most dangerous oil company get away with murder”
    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/17390/111965

  42. Ol’ Joe ain’t having his best week. His and Kerry’s cap and tax bill is in trouble and now he’s wanting to hand the govmint a kill switch for the internet. In the interest of national security, of course. Then our leader would be as powerful as China’s and North Korea’s, internet-wise.
    Senator, I think you’ve lost your touch.

  43. There is no “black body radiation” on a rotating planet. And there is no such thing as “atmospheric greenhouse effect.”
    Greennhouses dont’s trap infrared. They stop convection.
    There is no C02 forcing. And there is no “water vapor feedback.” Everything they have said is un-physical. And every physicsit knows it.

  44. Makes me wonder if any other lifelong registered Bobby-loving democrat changed their stripes as a result of this climate-change-pot-head-old-hippy-holdover-group-of-humans-screaming-chicken-little-esk-warnings-that-the-world-will-end version of apocalyptic pronouncements, waking them up.
    It did me.
    Hell, this old farm raised hippy just wanted to love whomever she wanted and to be whatever she wanted to be without someone telling her no you can’t.
    Are you listening Democratic Party? Climate change turned me into a “gag” – Republican. Kind of. I am now a registered independent. Which puts me in the same corner as a Lieberman. Tomorrow I am becoming a full fledged – gag- Republican.
    Somebody stole my Democratic Party.

  45. Obsession over a trace gas?
    Life will eventually roast from lack of volcano eruptions. We get warmings from that already. And lack of the material they put in the stratosphere.

  46. How in the world has it come to this? Is America truly only a few votes away from corruption and insanity? Have we been numbed by the politicization of everything that we have stopped reacting?

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