
by Moshpit
The hubris apparent in the notion that the climate is something we can control has found its match in the thought that climate scientists can now understand how to sell a message to the public. Somehow moshpit found himself photoshopped in the middle of this conversation……
ELEANOR HALL: Some of Australia’s top scientists are gathering in Sydney today trying to work out how to “shift public attitudes” on climate change.
MOSHPIT: We do science during the week and PR on our weekends.
The aim, according to organizers, is to publicize the facts of climate science in the face of a so-far highly successful campaign by climate skeptics.
The closed door meeting is being attended by Australia’s Chief Scientist as well as representatives from the CSIRO and the Bureau of Meteorology, as David Mark reports.
MOSHPIT: Ya no press allowed or anybody else who understands communicating with the public
DAVID MARK: There’s nothing new about the greenhouse effect.
MOSHPIT: Perhaps we should sell a greenhouse effect with retsin! that worked for certs. And we need to sell the message with penguins. Polar Bears are so passe’
KARL BRAGANZA: The first sort of credited person with formulating that the earth has a greenhouse effect is probably a Swedish scientist known as Arrhenius. I think that’s how you pronounce his name and that’s in the late 1800’s.
DAVID MARK: That’s Doctor Karl Braganza, the manager of climate monitoring at the Bureau of Meteorology’s National Climate Centre.
MOSHPIT: Dude you butchered his name, the Swedes won’t go for treaties now.
KARL BRAGANZA: But if you actually look back. It was earlier than that, probably in the early 1800’s that European scientists were first proposing the idea that, you know, the earth’s atmosphere does trap heat and warms up the surface.
MOSHPIT: Ya, this one time in band camp…
DAVID MARK: By the middle of the 20th century, scientists were linking the greenhouse effect with measured increases in carbon dioxide.
KARL BRAGANZA: People started actually recording CO2 in the atmosphere at places like Mauna Loa in Hawaii and that was in the late 50s and it was probably by the late 60s that we really realised that yeah, CO2 was really ramping up in the atmosphere.
MOSHPIT: Psst don’t talk about short trends. After 10 years we couldn’t tell anything
DAVID MARK: And as Doctor Braganza explains in the following decades more empirical evidence of rising temperatures firmed up the theory.
KARL BRAGANZA: The science itself is quite basic and quite straight forward and that’s why within scientific circles you’ll often hear people say that there is no debate within the science about the enhanced greenhouse effect and the reality of it.
MOSHPIT: Talk about the ice. Cue the Penguins.
DAVID MARK: And yet there is a debate and many would argue it’s a debate the scientists are losing to so-called climate sceptics.
CATHY FOLEY: What’s gone wrong is that I think scientists have probably had a lot of different people speaking.
MOSHPIT: Worse than that, they had British accents and funny names like Gavin. We need one credible spokesperson. Like Al Gore, only knowledgable. Or like Phil Jones, only credible. How about a talking Penguin with James Earle Jones’ voice!
DAVID MARK: Doctor Cathy Foley is the President of FASTS – the Federation of Australian Scientific and Technological Societies.
CATHY FOLEY: There’s been a bit of mix as to how do you believe one person as opposed to another and in the areas where scientists are talking with people who are well funded sceptics who aren’t necessarily, well aren’t definitely leaders in their field.
MOSHPIT: Maybe we can get those guys who did the polar bear photoshop job to photoshop McIntyre talking money from Shell Oil? Use one of the pictures of the CRU guys with Shell and just graft on McIntyre’s head. If you have problems just ask Mike, he knows the grafting trick
The general public just don’t know, who do I believe in the end if I read a book, which has some supposed specialist as opposed to a peer-reviewed researcher who’s been working in the field for a long time.
That subtlety is not picked up by them and they find it hard to say what’s right and what isn’t.
MOSHPIT: Let’s declare the debate is over so they don’t even get the chance to understand for themselves. The public is so dumb they will never see through that!
DAVID MARK: So today Australian science is hitting back.
MOSHPIT: Psst, you hit like a sheila, mate.
FASTS is holding a closed-door one-day climate change summit to quote “shift public attitudes in support of climate change action.”
MOSHPIT: Penguins. Teenage mutant ninja penguins.
CATHY FOLEY: I think that scientists really do need to try and get their collective might together to make sure that we have a clear and articulated voice that allows us to make sure that the general public actually understands what it is that we’re trying to achieve so that good decisions are made.
MOSHPIT: Penguins. With a clear voice like James Earl Jones.
DAVID MARK: But as we’ve heard, the science has been around for 100 years, so why is it the scientists haven’t been able to convince the lay people in all that time?
Doctor Cathy Foley.
CATHY FOLEY: I think the scientific community has been putting it out in a way, which they are scientists. They put out the information, which is the facts as they understand it. Scientists are focusing on that and trying to make sure that they put things across in a way which isn’t alarmist and I think that there always trying to tread that very delicate pathway.
MOSHPIT: and so like they put it out there in a way that is like factual as they like know it and they never used penguins to sell the message and like penguins are these funny creatures, not like scary polar bears, and so like that. Did I make sense? is this the conference on communicating with the public? I think I’m at the wrong convention. Can I get my teeth whitened here for free?
DAVID MARK: Could it be then that scientists are too focused on the facts; constrained by the scientific method and perhaps not passionate enough to have their message heard through the static of modern media?
MOSHPIT: Angry Penguins. That’s the ticket!
Doctor Karl Braganza.
KARL BRAGANZA: It’s probably been true that what we’ve been best at is giving a science lecture and no matter who we speak to whether it’s farmer groups or community groups or government, our mode of communication is to sort of give more information. If someone doesn’t understand something, well throw even more information at them and that might not be the best way to communicate issues to the general public at large.
MOSHPIT: Ya we need to stop this giving information thing right now. Lets bring in Mann and Jones, they did pretty well with that hiding information thing. People don’t want facts. They want… Penguins. Passionate Penguins.
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Well we don’t have any disagreement on the cause Mate; sure the “Greenhouse effect”; which of course isn’t how green houses work; is what is warming up the planet.
But you’re blaming the wrong molecule; IT’S THE WATER !!
If there was no other GHG in the atmosphere besides the obvious one; H2O I doubt that we would notice much difference in Temperature. We might just have a little less cloud cover; but not so’s you’d notice.
After more than 15 years,
It just doesn’t pass the sniff test…………
“”” Smokey says:
June 15, 2010 at 4:52 pm
National Geographic isn’t all bad: “””
Hey Smokey; they are just Fur Bags on the hoof; that’s all.
Maybe he should try getting in the water with a half a dozen 8 foot long Humboldt squids. They would show him how to feed out in the ocean alright. Serve him right too.
On behalf of gnu/linux, please–give the penguins a break. (They’re all in favor of openness, anyway.)
“”” Ed Caryl says:
June 15, 2010 at 3:29 pm
“Sen. Barbara Boxer said last week that climate change — not any of that other stuff — will stand as the “leading cause of conflict” over the next two decades. “
Strangely, that is close to being correct, but it will be all the decisions based on the fraudulent premise of “climate change” that causes the conflicts. “””
Well it wouldn’t surprise me one iota, if it turns out that World War III is fought over climate change.
Neither Communist Red China; nor overpopulated India is going to pay any attention to carbon footprints. China Puts a coal fired plant on line about every week, and India has a whole lot of sacred Cow chips to burn up.
And sooner or later; the developed countries; who are being asked to return to the cave age; over a non issue; are simply going to come out scratching.
If I was China or India; I wouldn’t be paying any heed to carbon footprints; but I might think about cleaning up coal in other ways; but eventually; the greens are going to end up with bloody noses; and that will be thoroughly deserved.
The world can only tolerate a limited amount of criminal insanity.
FASTS cries out for a sister-society in Europe. I propose: Luxembourg Organization for Outrageous Scientific Exaggeration, or LOOSE.
“”SimonH says:””
Thank you
“If someone doesn’t understand something, well throw even more information at them and that might not be the best way to communicate issues to the general public at large.”
I love that one! Someone please tell Karl, if someone doesn’t understand something and the someone is at least of average intelligence then either the message isn’t articulated properly and more information is necessary(if one can’t convey an idea properly after several years, one wonders how it is they can understand complex ideas) or the message is errant. There are no other alternatives.
The answer, of course, is both of the above. It is painfully obvious the message requires more information, more information than the messenger is able to give. This is illustrated by that wonderful pie chart that has occasioned this site. “What we know we don’t know, vs. what we don’t know what we don’t know.”(Hope I got that right.) And, the message is also errant. Even though no one can articulate the AGW or CAGW, or man caused climate change hypotheses with any consistency, all the while swearing there is a consensus, there is still a claim of necessary draconian measures to stop the ensuing doom. Further, as many are beginning to see, even if every bit of the alarmism is true, the cure is worst than the disease.
P.F. :
1896: Svante Arrhenius publishes the first calculation of global warming from human emission of CO2. He wrote “warm is better than cold.”
I think Al Gore missed that all-important last sentence.
Watched BO’s speech a little while ago. BOHICA , y’all.
“in the face of a so-far highly successful campaign by climate skeptics.” (who are well organised and coordinated and funded by Big Oil)
Oh they must be struggling. Just think how successful we could be if we were organised, coordinated and funded by Big Oil.
Curiousgeorge,
Here’s a cartoon to go with BO’s speech.
I listened to this drivel live on the ABC’s flagship current affairs radio programme “The World Today” and could not believe either the ridiculous level of content from those supposed to be scientists (especially Cathy Foley) or the soft questioning by the reporter. I think Mosh has captured the only way to respond, perhaps being lampooned in this way may wake them up – but I doubt it.
By the way, I am one of those “evil” geologists who have a slightly longer perspective than a 1951-80 base year period and so see the current changes for what they are- natural not anthropogenic.
So, today, the commisariat is rounding up the bourgois irredentist anti-Lysenkoists.So today Australian science is hitting back.Allow me to correct that phrase:
So, today, the corrupted scientific institutions are rallying around their poltical paymasters to continue funding.
Funny stuff.
But communication is the real problem here.
The failure to communicate how the 3.0C per doubling actually occurs that is. They complain that the public doesn’t understand the science so they should dumbdown the communication even further but the real problem is they have never outlined the steps it takes to get global warming in the first place. I’m not willing to accept the simple statements that CO2 is a greenhouse gas and then it will cause further feedbacks. I want every step outlined, calculated and then measured to see if it is happening. I imagine the vast majority of climate scientists do not know how the whole system produces the 2.0C to 4.5C warming either. They are just expected to parrot the party line or they don’t get invited to any more great global warming parties.
There has been far too much exagerration and dumbing down already. Occam’s Razor says it is either far too complicated to explain (which means there can also be errors in the theory) or they just don’t want people double-checking them.
Curiousgeorge says:
June 15, 2010 at 5:40 pm
“Watched BO’s speech a little while ago. BOHICA , y’all.”
I don’t think we’re buying what he’s selling anymore. I believe it gets broke of in him come November. I could be wrong, I didn’t think he’d get the insurance scam through the back door, but he proved that with the proper lube, even something as limp and lame as him, can be shoved through. Even still, the tide is turning.
Hey!!! My comment vanished to the etherworld!!!
FASTS is holding a closed-door one-day climate change summit to quote “shift public attitudes in support of climate change action.”
WERME: Dang, I was walking down the street and suddenly my attitude shifted. At least I know why now.
MOSHPIT: Penguins. Teenage mutant ninja penguins.
CATHY FOLEY: [blather omitted]
MOSHPIT: Penguins. With a clear voice like James Earl Jones.
DAVID MARK: But as we’ve heard, the science has been around for 100 years, so why is it the scientists haven’t been able to convince the lay people in all that time?
WERME:
1) The science has improved over the last 100 years.
2) Warming? Where? Talk to me this weekend (forecast high of 90°F 32°C).
3) James Hansen and Michael Mann are your spokesmen. Or blather like CATHY FOLEY.
4) Replace them with a penguin. One with a clear voice like James Earl Jones.
OMG!!! Is that really Steve? That looks like MY picture. I thought it was at first glance. Separated at birth.
Smokey @ur momisugly 4.52, that reminds me of a dive buddy who, some 10 years ago now, was diving in a neoprene dry suit in the South Pacific(don’t get jealous, it was the cold South Pacific, South of New Zealand.
A Sea Lion kept him trapped (on the surface) in kelp for 30 minutes until rescued by a RIB. His dry suit had two LARGE holes from the bulls fangs in them. The bull thought he was a competing male, being large and black and in the water.
Reminds me of “Mystery Climate Theratre 3000”. Great stuff.
I am beginning to wonder about that dummy down the info attempt: “give em cake instead of gourmet” line. Maybe they don’t actually HAVE the gourmet information, which is why they are trying to default to the mac and cheese version.
And what the hell is with the idea that I am highly funded???? I’m a special ed teacher under severe budget constraints due to the downturn in the economy. Had to eat nothin but trout and fresh veggies for 2! count 2! months just so I could get me a Marlin (oh the sacrifice).
Astounding isn’t it. I understand weather pattern zonal variation, oceanic oscillations, solar (non) influence related to temperature anomalies, and lever action Marlins. .35 Remington that is.
Now ‘scuse me while I dine on my cheap-ass rainbow trout stew so’s I can afford the ammo on my “highly funded” salary.
Pass the Parmesan.
OT
Pachauri – BBC 15 June 2010
“We who are on the side of the consensus must remind ourselves that the evolution of knowledge thrives on debate. ” [Mods – snip if posted already]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8740049.stm
nothing like a “whale of a story” to appeal to the public:
remember this one?
22 April: ABC: Whale poo reduces carbon levels
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/04/22/2880461.htm
here’s a new one:
16 June: ABC: Sarah Clarke: Whale poo fights climate change: study
A separate study at the Australian Antarctic Division in Hobart this year found that whale faeces could be crucial in reducing levels of atmospheric carbon dioxide.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/06/16/2928240.htm?section=justin
ABC gives us two versions in case we miss it:
16 June: ABC Science: Anna Salleh: Sperm whales more than offset their carbon
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/2010/06/16/2927491.htm
Richard never misses a trick:
15 June: BBC: Richard Black: Sperm whale faeces offset CO2 emissions
They note in the Royal Society journal Proceedings B that in the end, this also provides more food for the whales
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science_and_environment/10323987.stm
The French have it:
15 June: AFP: Faecal attraction: Whale poop fights climate change
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gbD9G11LX_QG7QM-NmmQ7C-Gny4A
New Scientist also:
16 June: New Scientist: Zoologger: Michael Marshall: The biggest living thing with teeth
Poop power
Earlier this year it was shown that Southern Ocean baleen whales help keep this process going by releasing huge amounts of iron in their faeces.The Southern Ocean is short of iron, limiting the amount of life it can sustain, but these injections of iron help out.
Now Trish Lavery of Flinders University in Adelaide, South Australia, and her colleagues have gone a step further…
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn19046-zoologger-the-biggest-living-thing-with-teeth.html
top story, homepage:
16 June: Discovery: Jennifer Viegas: Diarrhea-Like Whale Waste Cleans the Environment
Since carbon has been linked to greenhouse gases, sperm whales likely reduce global warming. ..
http://news.discovery.com/
“I think the scientific community has been putting it out in a way, which they are scientists. They put out the information, which is the facts as they understand it. Scientists are focusing on that and trying to make sure that they put things across in a way which isn’t alarmist and I think that there always trying to tread that very delicate pathway.”
So, in other words, “we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements, and make little mention of any doubts we might have…. Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.” Stephen Schneider, Discover Magazine, 1989. But, that was over 20 years ago and it isn’t working, so obviously the problem is that they’ve been “too honest”, and need to concentrate more on effectiveness. In short, they need to be less scientific, and more alarmist, and exaggerate and lie more. Hahahahahaha!
They’ve truly lost the plot. Game over. The jig is up. It’s been fun.